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Boaz Hedion Merkava
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:16:00 -
[1]
Please vote here (link) and if you want then discuss it in this thread.
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Marloth Athran
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:50:00 -
[2]
Discussion point then:
I think we should hold fire for one reason only. Not for CCP's benefit, but to show we, as a community, are willing to do such a thing as a one-time, limited offer, gesture of goodwill.
Of course, if things don't go so well in the CSM meetings, then we're of course, completely free to resume and increase any actions we feel are to be taken, including unsubscription.
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
The Python Cartel.
The Defenders of Pen Island
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:51:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Marloth Athran
Discussion point then:
I think we should hold fire for one reason only. Not for CCP's benefit, but to show we, as a community, are willing to do such a thing as a one-time, limited offer, gesture of goodwill.
Of course, if things don't go so well in the CSM meetings, then we're of course, completely free to resume and increase any actions we feel are to be taken, including unsubscription.
CCP used up their gesture of good will when they failed on the first blog then pretty much said FFFFFFFFUUUUUUU to us
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Boaz Hedion Merkava
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:54:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Boaz Hedion Merkava on 26/06/2011 19:54:30
Current vote count (page 150) says more people saying No: 70 people versus 63 saying yes.
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diaufop
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:55:00 -
[5]
Edited by: diaufop on 26/06/2011 19:55:33
"There are no plans".
I'd just like to take a moment to say this to all eve customers.
"There are no plans". This was exactly what Turbine used to deny LoTRO going f2p+cash shop less than 2 weeks before the official announcement.
"There are no plans" is the single most common weasel-word phrase used to mean "we're doing it, but not ready to go public".
There is absolutely nothing that CCP can discuss with the CSM in Iceland in a week's time that they couldn't discuss with them via skype over the last few days.
CCP are hoping that by announcing they refuse to discuss the issues until then that everyone will calm down and carry on buying monocles and ignore the veritable piles of **** CCP have heaped upon them in the past few days. And then post some weasel-worded document at the end of the week that amounts to "we're carrying on anyway, but this time we got the CSM drunk enough to agree!".
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Olvel
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Posted - 2011.06.26 19:57:00 -
[6]
Like it or not, we're all in the same boat.
CCP wants the game to continue rolling along and making them money for years to come. We want the game to continue rolling along and providing a fun experience for years to come. Neither one of us wants to see the game go up in flames.
So running around and setting fire to everything we see is probably not in our best interest...
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Marloth Athran
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:00:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny
Originally by: Marloth Athran
Discussion point then:
I think we should hold fire for one reason only. Not for CCP's benefit, but to show we, as a community, are willing to do such a thing as a one-time, limited offer, gesture of goodwill.
Of course, if things don't go so well in the CSM meetings, then we're of course, completely free to resume and increase any actions we feel are to be taken, including unsubscription.
CCP used up their gesture of good will when they failed on the first blog then pretty much said FFFFFFFFUUUUUUU to us
Aye, I agree they seriously FFFFFF'd up, and have done a stellar job of shaking our confidence since the beginning of this whole mess.
I personally would love to see this continue, but common sense indicates all this is going to do is screw the game for other people for the duration of the week.
More effective methods are getting facts to the news-sites covering this, and ensuring you are ready to commit to whatever decision you make at the end of the week.
If CCP do come out, and say "Yes, you can buy game-affecting items in the store, but these are also items that will drop, are lootable, and are generally available.." then what?
If they say "No, not happening." how many of us will believe them anyway?
A thought I had is, if anyone here has played Team Fortress 2, they will know about the Mann Co store.. where you can 'buy' anything in the game pretty much.
These items are also available via normal sources, trading, random drops.. and aren't all completely game-breaking to have?
Personally though, if CCP give exclusive advantages to players who "Pay to Win", this is going to seriously impact the Bitter Vets and others alike.
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diaufop
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:05:00 -
[8]
Edited by: diaufop on 26/06/2011 20:07:55
Originally by: Marloth Athran
I personally would love to see this continue, but common sense indicates all this is going to do is screw the game for other people for the duration of the week.
More effective methods are getting facts to the news-sites covering this
In-game protests have had plenty of coverage in the gaming sites. In fact, more so than the forum threadnaughts have. If the flood of unsubscriptions and in-game protests continue for a week it actually sends a much larger, stronger signal to CCP than any amount of forum posting does.
Remember, Hilmar himself - and by extension the rest of CCP - only care about our actions, not our words.
A sit is, we don't really have any more facts to give the sites - they've all had the leaked documents handed to them already.
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Tyke Orlieveit
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:08:00 -
[9]
Originally by: diaufop
Originally by: Marloth Athran
I personally would love to see this continue, but common sense indicates all this is going to do is screw the game for other people for the duration of the week.
More effective methods are getting facts to the news-sites covering this
In-game protests have had plenty of coverage in the gaming sites. In fact, more so than the forum threadnaughts have. If the flood of unsubscriptions and in-game protests continue for a week it actually sends a much larger, stronger signal to CCP than any amount of forum posting does.
Remember, Hilmar himself - and by extension the rest of CCP - only care about our actions, not our words.
Aye, and that's why I'm thinking our Action, of stepping back, reloading, whilst all the time reminding the target they are in sight, is more intimidating than "Herp derp AFK gunz" for a week.
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Vaebel Kormu
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:11:00 -
[10]
"I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say"
Listen to Hilmar and keep those guns firing. That's the only language they understand.
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Marloth Athran
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:12:00 -
[11]
Originally by: diaufop
Edited by: diaufop on 26/06/2011 20:07:55
Originally by: Marloth Athran
I personally would love to see this continue, but common sense indicates all this is going to do is screw the game for other people for the duration of the week.
More effective methods are getting facts to the news-sites covering this
In-game protests have had plenty of coverage in the gaming sites. In fact, more so than the forum threadnaughts have. If the flood of unsubscriptions and in-game protests continue for a week it actually sends a much larger, stronger signal to CCP than any amount of forum posting does.
Remember, Hilmar himself - and by extension the rest of CCP - only care about our actions, not our words.
A sit is, we don't really have any more facts to give the sites - they've all had the leaked documents handed to them already.
Aye.
And I feel that stepping back, and reloading our assorted weapons, whilst keeping the targets in sight, and giving them the option to justify their actions is a better step than just "Herp Derp AFK guns" on the monument.
At the end of the day, if CCP don't come back with what we want to hear, we speak with the loudest shots of all, Unsubscription, and bad publicity for future players. Don't speak about the game and don't sell the game up to your friends. Take your money elsewhere.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:15:00 -
[12]
For my money (I've voted yes to ceasefire in the main thread) I think we give the CSM time to have the face to face discussions now and the impact on the revolution in eve should be that we keep up the pressure on demonstrations / threads certainly but dial down the rhetoric on eve dying / attacks on staff members etc.
I'd say keep the demos good natured this week and wait and see on the results of the face to face meetings. I think we do need to keep up the anti-MT pressure but now is the time to trust the CSM's we elected and ensure they go fully-briefed to iceland to get this sorted out.
If the meetings turn out to be a disappointing farce ... well, then its back to route one.
Join the Revolution!
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:24:00 -
[13]
That email from Hilmar said they will show us no mercy..I say we crush them until they throw up the white flag. We are ahead and should not give up our advantage.
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Marloth Athran
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:27:00 -
[14]
Originally by: HeIIfire11
That email from Hilmar said they will show us no mercy..I say we crush them until they throw up the white flag. We are ahead and should not give up our advantage.
I'm not really sure what "Advantage" we have, since all that's being done is some trade hubs more choked up than usual, and someone's making more isk than usual in selling ammo in Jita?
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Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:28:00 -
[15]
Originally by: HeIIfire11
That email from Hilmar said they will show us no mercy..I say we crush them until they throw up the white flag. We are ahead and should not give up our advantage.
tbh the email from Hilmar showed him digging in to back his comrades right or wrong and thats a natural human emotion when your friends come under fire. Getting a rational outcome from this matter needs the firing to stop for a little while so some actual talking can happen. And it doesn't mean the demos have to stop - keep up the pressure by all means but ease up on the molotovs until we find out what the state of play really is.
Join the Revolution!
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Fahad AlAmir
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:29:00 -
[16]
Adding onto what's been said before, it should be a controlled ceasefire - but make it obvious it's not disarmament. Keep threadnaughts going listing complaints, spread news of problems with CCP's direction like Jehovah's Witnesses and gear up for a second round of protests. Then if the meeting flops, we fall back on plan B, raise less ISK and more hell. |
Karia Sur
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:31:00 -
[17]
Originally by: HeIIfire11
That email from Hilmar said they will show us no mercy..I say we crush them until they throw up the white flag. We are ahead and should not give up our advantage.
We have made a point. A point which the CSM invitation shows that CCP are prepared to listen to. This is not to say that they will come down on the no P2W side of the fence. However, they have had the decency to arrange a meeting when quite simply, they didnt have to. I say give them the chance to voice their comments, then everyone can re-assess the situation.
Carrying on the protests could now start to cause harm. Restarting them if the CSM meeting is a waste of time is easy enough to do.
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:32:00 -
[18]
Edited by: HeIIfire11 on 26/06/2011 20:33:51
Originally by: Marloth Athran
Originally by: HeIIfire11
That email from Hilmar said they will show us no mercy..I say we crush them until they throw up the white flag. We are ahead and should not give up our advantage.
I'm not really sure what "Advantage" we have, since all that's being done is some trade hubs more choked up than usual, and someone's making more isk than usual in selling ammo in Jita?
We have the advantage of having all our troops at the front line...if we stop now we might not get them all together again. We have given them enough chance to talk...they don't want to see the players talk but they want to see what we will do.
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Big Bad Guy
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:33:00 -
[19]
Give old hangar back, make CQ an option for it. otherwise no ceasefire ever |
Iamien
Democracy of Klingon Brothers
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:34:00 -
[20]
CSM meeting is a stalling tactic. They get a few days of things settling and they get to decide what the CSM is able to say afterwords.
__________
I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our developers do and less of what they say.
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democrities
Zebra Corp
BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:39:00 -
[21]
Ceasefire? Isn't that being melodramatic? This is a game wherein a portion of the playerbase is unhappy with the actions of the developers. It isn't The US and North Korea facing off that the 38th parallel.
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RougeOperator
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:46:00 -
[22]
anyone saying yes is ******ed.
Keep the pressure on full until our demands are met. Its our only bargaining chip you fools. And it can easily lose momentum with a stall tactic. Thats why ccp is stalling on this in the first place.
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Capt Tauro
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:46:00 -
[23]
Hello.
So, CCP comunicate their changes in patch Incarna. For those who are aware the procedures of directors meetings now that they will change nothing.
The way they communicate - people in charge of these missions -
talk (write) in very poor language, with terrible examples, mainly that of CCP Zulu about Japanese US$ 1000 pants. Even in my RL corp that is not "so cool" like CCP, directors are very careful in what they say and more yet in what they write. What is spoken can be changed or forgotten, but what is written, not.
We never post an official comment with any mention about government, people, nations, race, etc, even if the comment isn't bad. So bad.
But apart from these gaffes I saw few course of action:
1) Protests (like that of Jita - 06.24) must continue
2) New kind of protests like "no one log in next weekend" for example.
3) repeat steps (1) and (2) for some time
4) No results, then cancel accounts or accept and shut up.
Any other kinds mass hysteria, insults, grotesque comments will result only in indifference on the part of CCPs.
I, myself, send a petition asking a date for the REMOVING of
Nex Store and that Vanity items. I'll see what they will answer. And then, depends on their answer I'll cancel my 5 accounts. Point.
Any other discussion is irrelevant.
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Marloth Athran
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:46:00 -
[24]
Originally by: democrities
Ceasefire? Isn't that being melodramatic? This is a game wherein a portion of the playerbase is unhappy with the actions of the developers. It isn't The US and North Korea facing off that the 38th parallel.
They're referring to the shooting of the Titan, and the monument, and clogging up Tradehubs..
Unless there's an element to this I haven't heard, like they're planning to invade Iceland?
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Maken Cheese
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:55:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Marloth Athran
Unless there's an element to this I haven't heard, like they're planning to invade Iceland?
We shall travel to Iceland and pelt CCP with monocles until we have satisfaction.
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Boaz Hedion Merkava
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:55:00 -
[26]
Current vote count: No say 100, Yes say 104, counted up to post 230.
The vote count just keeps dancing around the 50/50 mark every time I do a count of new votes.
"Divide et Impera..."
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Marloth Athran
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Posted - 2011.06.26 20:59:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Marloth Athran on 26/06/2011 20:59:35
Originally by: Maken Cheese
Originally by: Marloth Athran
Unless there's an element to this I haven't heard, like they're planning to invade Iceland?
We shall travel to Iceland and pelt CCP with monocles until we have satisfaction.
I laughed harder at this than I should have...
*Imagines CCP staff pulling up for a day of work, getting out of their cars.. *Plink* .."WTF?"*
*10 people in camo gear jump out from the bushes, screaming "NO TO MT! NOOOOOOO!" begin launching monocles at the staff.. *
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Capdown Jakuard
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:05:00 -
[28]
Boaz, there are too many mixed reactions to tell people what to do
Why continue to let half-ars*d protests continue?
You will end up with less people than what you started with.
Either do it or don't at all
It does not matter which is the better or more proper thing to do. IF I was protesting (which I'm not) I would agree holding back is the way to go, but don't devide the people if you want to go full force spam...... Besides, the longer Jita is locked off, the more the impact.
Nothing has changed since yesterday except for an apology and a date
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Kithca
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:24:00 -
[29]
When someone sits back and chills in the middle of a revolution, it's only because they think they have it in the bag. They won't take anyone seriously. They aren't going to "fix" anything. EVERYTHING that the CSM says is going to fall on deaf ears and be met with nothing but deceit. Zulu didn't apologize for upsetting the players, Zulu apologized for being angry at the leak; angry at the disloyalty in their own ranks.
This is the EXACT same thing that Zynga did to it's "customers" last year to shut them up. CCP thinks they can get away with it too, and when the protests stop; THEY WILL BE RIGHT! They will use this "offer" as a reason why everyone needs to shut up, sit down, and take it.
And when all is said and done, NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS they will ALWAYS be able to say they "tried" to fix it and if they win; what will that say about the players? That the players are nothing but SHEEP to be sheered when their wallet's call.
They do NOT care what the players think. This is NOT an olive branch!
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Thodoros
Minmatar
Mythos Corp
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.26 21:25:00 -
[30]
I have voted no.
The reasoning is that i have lost completely my trust to CCP.
Also the last blog of CCP Zulu for me is not clear and doesnt say anything clear apart that they are willing to discuss the new implementetions.
Therefore in the back of their minds want to sell (gold ammo) and other items or skills through the NeX Store. I also believe that CCP is in talks with SOE and they want to show that they have a good revenue to them, and now that they are in trouble with the player base and many accounts are unsubbing they definetely dont look good in the accounting books. This timeline for me is a far cry from a coincedence to me.
They promise one thing and they deliver another.
I dont trust them anymore.
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