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Commander IceQ
Caldari
Spit and Ductape Maintenance
Trade Wind Commodities
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Posted - 2011.06.28 12:43:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Whitehound
You started going into a viewpoint without balls.
LoL. I am sorry but Akita T actually posted a very good argument and made some valid points, since these viewpoints deflates the a lot of the "P2W" arguments, I would say that Akita has balls. While in the mean time you resort to short sentences that don't say anything and name calling.
Originally by: Whitehound
No, you are being a douche in a time where others unite.
I am sorry to say this but as far as I can see the community is very much united. Some people, like Akita T and myself, see things differently and we are staying calm, and not running around in our knickers and setting ourselves on fire.
So you can call me whatever names you wish, I am still playing the game. I am still enjoying it. MT has not changed the way I play the game. I am 39 Days from flying a Carrier. And the only way I am going to be stopped from reaching that goal is if CCP closes the server down.
If people want to unsub, they can be my guest. When all this has been resolved, and they resub they will be flooding this forum with "I want the SP I lost from protest unsub!!". Which would just prove that you can't make everyone happy.
Anyway fly safe... or whatever it is that the unsubed people do.
My Signature is too large... O_o |
DeODokktor
Caldari
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
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Posted - 2011.06.28 12:46:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Water MEI
higher sub -> PLEX price increase...
so it is probably a good idea to horde PLEX atm in-case a sub increase, then we sell them for $ or ISK and earn a profit!!!
Selling a PLEX for $$$ is against the rules.....
Selling 60d codes for $$$ is possible, but dont expect it to be well received as ccp will not guarantee this.
-----------
Never Forget the joy of finding a main to link to a scammer alt. N-y-p-h-u-r ! ! |
Abyssal Void
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Posted - 2011.06.28 12:53:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Demure Guise
Originally by: Abyssal Void
Edit: Didnt see last one before posting this. Maybe you could explain the game breaking advantages being sold in that store. I seem to have missed them.
That isn't the issue either - because, as we all know, as yet there aren't any yet. YET being the operative word.
A VERY quick precis for you, since threads explaining the ACTUAL gripes are widely available anyway.
Fade to 24/6/2010 and CCP Shadow in the 'SP Microtransaction Megathread': "Our business model isn't changing. You have nothing to be concerned about." Then, "No. There are no microtransaction plans, whatsoever." Then, "We do not have plans to go microtransaction with Eve." (his bold and underlining, not mine.)
Fade to today. CCP need cash, bad. They're overextended. Result: vanity items, which rational people think are hilarious but harmless. Via the very Microtransactions they apparently had no intentions of introducing. Wait. What?
We're getting similar sentiments expressed about non-vanity items. Remembering the above chain of events, we asked EXACTLY what WERE they going to be doing about non-vanity items. A simple, unequivocal answer that eliminated any chance of misinterpretation. Two blogs of CCP WaffleSpeak later and still nobody knows where they stand. Did they mean "No Gold Ammo" to mean ALL non-vanity microtransactions, or just "Ammo even better than Faction Ammo"? Your guess is as good as ours, as they are seemingly incapable of a straight-up, incontrovertible yes or no answer.
As the saying goes "Fool us once, shame on you. Fool us twice, shame on us."
So they said at some point they did not have a plan to do something. Then at a latter time they made a plan and did it. You make it sound like they lied. So you are saying that it is a sure thing that they will do something they have said they will NOT do. I heard CCPSoundwave say it quite clearly in a video blog.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.06.28 12:56:00 -
[64]
Originally by: El'Niaga
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: El'Niaga
They probably need to shelve WoD for the time being so that they can complete DUST 514 and maintain EVE. Thus stabilizing their spending to revenue stream. Yes I realize it means some people at CCP will have to be let go that's unavoidable. Either a few must be sacrificed for the many or they may all be lost.
Oh, hey, what an interesting concept... so you'd rather like to see quite a few people lose their jobs than ever see microtransactions in a game you play that WOULD allow you access to all the MT-based content without ever spending a dime ?
Well, I know who I would sacrifice instead of my employees - namely, I would sacrifice those subscribers that just can't live with the idea of playing a game which has some limited form of microtransactions (especially since they were already playing the game for ages with microtransactions included, but only as far as sub payment tokens went).
I don't think you understand.
They can't make enough off the NEX store to make up the revenue gap. Not at the relative small showing of items and high prices. If they'd released 100 1 dollar items that were destroyed when your pod killed they could easily have sold three or four times the monetary value than they have with 30 dollar pants and 70 dollar monocles.
It is a flawed roll out and philosophy really. Which emanated from the top levels of the company. They can still turn it around, but honestly they need to streamline their development processes and get rid of unneeded or unproductive staff.
No, I think YOU don't understand what they have the opportunity to do.
Maybe they won't do it like I describe below, and THAT would be a wasted opportunity.
What makes you think this very slim selection of uber-expensive items is the only round of items, and the only price tier of items that will be introduced ?
They stuck most of the most expensive ones in first to establish a "price anchor". When the new items come in at half the price (with the old ones remaining where they are), many more will buy them compared to how many would have bought them if they would have been introduced from the start.
They might introduce a few more items at price levels similar to the old ones, or even one item that's even more expensive, so that you don't feel like waiting it out will certainly make you get stuff cheaper soon, which should also boost sales.
But I will agree with you on one thing completely - the fact they backpedaled at the last minute on their "clothes on you are destructible" decision was kind of counter-productive.
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Andrei Vassaliev
Cursed Inc.
Not Found.
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Posted - 2011.06.28 12:58:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Haramir Haleths
Hi,
Discuss or just flame ... 
Flame.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.06.28 12:59:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Whitehound on 28/06/2011 12:59:50
Originally by: Commander IceQ
Anyway fly safe... or whatever it is that the unsubed people do.
We are protesting and you do not have to thank us for it. Keep playing your game. We will make sure that you can enjoy doing so in the future and that your game time stays enjoyable and does not get ruined by a creeping featurism and a stagnation of game content.
--
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Aodha Khan
Minmatar
Deviance Cartel
Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2011.06.28 12:59:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Aodha Khan on 28/06/2011 13:00:16
Originally by: Haramir Haleths
What do you thing about the idea to get more revenue by increasing the monthly fee a little bit. Maybe 2 Euro up per month instead of of selling game breaking crap.
I rather that than MT. However, I prefer it if they continued to use my subscription to develop EVE ONLINE.
Make Dracula Online and Dust seperate projects with seperate budgets and start off just like they did with Eve Online from scratch instead if using all of Eves income..
Power is not something that is granted - it is something to be taken. |
Demure Guise
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Posted - 2011.06.28 13:00:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Demure Guise on 28/06/2011 13:02:37
Originally by: Abyssal Void
Originally by: Demure Guise
Originally by: Abyssal Void
Edit: Didnt see last one before posting this. Maybe you could explain the game breaking advantages being sold in that store. I seem to have missed them.
That isn't the issue either - because, as we all know, as yet there aren't any yet. YET being the operative word.
A VERY quick precis for you, since threads explaining the ACTUAL gripes are widely available anyway.
Fade to 24/6/2010 and CCP Shadow in the 'SP Microtransaction Megathread': "Our business model isn't changing. You have nothing to be concerned about." Then, "No. There are no microtransaction plans, whatsoever." Then, "We do not have plans to go microtransaction with Eve." (his bold and underlining, not mine.)
Fade to today. CCP need cash, bad. They're overextended. Result: vanity items, which rational people think are hilarious but harmless. Via the very Microtransactions they apparently had no intentions of introducing. Wait. What?
We're getting similar sentiments expressed about non-vanity items. Remembering the above chain of events, we asked EXACTLY what WERE they going to be doing about non-vanity items. A simple, unequivocal answer that eliminated any chance of misinterpretation. Two blogs of CCP WaffleSpeak later and still nobody knows where they stand. Did they mean "No Gold Ammo" to mean ALL non-vanity microtransactions, or just "Ammo even better than Faction Ammo"? Your guess is as good as ours, as they are seemingly incapable of a straight-up, incontrovertible yes or no answer.
As the saying goes "Fool us once, shame on you. Fool us twice, shame on us."
So they said at some point they did not have a plan to do something. Then at a latter time they made a plan and did it. You make it sound like they lied. So you are saying that it is a sure thing that they will do something they have said they will NOT do. I heard CCPSoundwave say it quite clearly in a video blog.
Hahahaha, yeah... they "say" all kinds of things, as I think we have already established to our dissatisfaction. Stress your brain and think back a few lines of text - do you remember me describing CCP Shadow saying things like "no plans...", in writing, three times in one thread? That worked out real well, didn't it. Do you have a short attention span or something. If so, re-read the post.
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Mocam
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Posted - 2011.06.28 13:01:00 -
[69]
What they use surplus revenue for, I really couldn't give a ****. When it's "milk the cow" and that's my wallet and others I game with - I tend to get a bit ****ed about the topic.
If it ever was a choice between the 2 - MT or subscription - hands down, subscription going up would work for me but it's not a choice. We have no say in this. They will not listen.
Vanity doesn't sell as well as functional. That is why they won't say it's only vanity. They WILL put in functional and all those who "cannot afford a higher subscription" will find themselves second-class citizens in a MT based game that sells "convenience" - everything in EVE is about convenience. It's a game - just one that's going over to "wallets for the win".
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.06.28 13:02:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Whitehound
You have an opinion on what needs to be done?  I thought this is a protest about what the players want, not on what everyone should be doing. I am beginning to think that I am just feeding a troll again ...
Wow, hey, let's keep splitting hairs and argue semantics until the sun blinks out, shall we ? I think not.
Quote:
Quote:
And I'm the douche here ?
Yes. And why should I concern myself on viewpoints that are not yours?
Who said they're not mine ?
Quote:
Quote:
I gave you a logical series of easily provable facts and inferences detailing the situation when viewed from two different viewpoints.
I did not ask for it.
Then why are you even talking if you're not interested in a logic-based conversation ?
Go home, Glen Beck.
Quote:
Quote:
My brain can handle more than one viewpoint, in fact, it can handle quite a lot of different viewpoints.
Can it handle all viewpoints? Mine can. I take a step back, move into a new dimension and look at the problem as a whole.
You have quite conclusively proven that you are incapable of doing that.
But let's give you yet again the benefit of the doubt.
Quote:
Quote:
I don't know, WHY NOT let us buy real things with ISK ?
CONVENIENTLY EDITED OUT PART:
Oh, wait, because then CCP loses money, that's why.
And last time I checked, if they go under, EVE goes under, and the whole freaking argument about the moral virtues of not allowing microtransactions is not worth the paper it's not printed on.
Yes! Let us forget about making games and let us put an Apple Store into Jita. Instead of playing just a game can we now shoot each other over the new iPhone.
And let us invent toilets with ice cream machines, so one can go onto a toilet and eat ice cream at the same time. Do you not love eating ice cream when you are on the toilet? It is so much better to spend time on the toilet when you can eat ice cream, too.
YOU ARE GOD DAMN STUPID, Akita Troll. And you have no life. Get one.
Holy mother of out of context quoting, Batman !
That thing about the benefit of the doubt ? Forget about it.
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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SiIver Twin
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Posted - 2011.06.28 13:02:00 -
[71]
A marginal increase in monthly subscription wouldn't be that big an issue... may push up the price of plex a little. But it won't be deleting them from the game.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.06.28 13:03:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Whitehound on 28/06/2011 13:05:43
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: El'Niaga
I don't think you understand. ...
No, I think YOU don't understand ...
NO, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND.
See what I did?
Akita? You there? You listening? Yes? ... STFU, nerd. Seriously, you are a terrible whiner.
--
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 13:07:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: El'Niaga
I don't think you understand. ...
No, I think YOU don't understand ...
NO, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND.
See what I did?
Yes, I see what you did there.
You stopped even trying, that's what you did.
You left in the preamble, cut out the meat of both posts, and thus made it look like we are going at eachother's throats as opposed to merely correcting some slight inaccurate assumptions that would change the framing and clarify the whole issue.
Damn, I got that nickname right the first time it seems, mister Glenn Beck !
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.06.28 13:07:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: El'Niaga
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: El'Niaga
They probably need to shelve WoD for the time being so that they can complete DUST 514 and maintain EVE. Thus stabilizing their spending to revenue stream. Yes I realize it means some people at CCP will have to be let go that's unavoidable. Either a few must be sacrificed for the many or they may all be lost.
Oh, hey, what an interesting concept... so you'd rather like to see quite a few people lose their jobs than ever see microtransactions in a game you play that WOULD allow you access to all the MT-based content without ever spending a dime ?
Well, I know who I would sacrifice instead of my employees - namely, I would sacrifice those subscribers that just can't live with the idea of playing a game which has some limited form of microtransactions (especially since they were already playing the game for ages with microtransactions included, but only as far as sub payment tokens went).
I don't think you understand.
They can't make enough off the NEX store to make up the revenue gap. Not at the relative small showing of items and high prices. If they'd released 100 1 dollar items that were destroyed when your pod killed they could easily have sold three or four times the monetary value than they have with 30 dollar pants and 70 dollar monocles.
It is a flawed roll out and philosophy really. Which emanated from the top levels of the company. They can still turn it around, but honestly they need to streamline their development processes and get rid of unneeded or unproductive staff.
No, I think YOU don't understand what they have the opportunity to do.
Maybe they won't do it like I describe below, and THAT would be a wasted opportunity.
What makes you think this very slim selection of uber-expensive items is the only round of items, and the only price tier of items that will be introduced ?
They stuck most of the most expensive ones in first to establish a "price anchor". When the new items come in at half the price (with the old ones remaining where they are), many more will buy them compared to how many would have bought them if they would have been introduced from the start.
They might introduce a few more items at price levels similar to the old ones, or even one item that's even more expensive, so that you don't feel like waiting it out will certainly make you get stuff cheaper soon, which should also boost sales.
But I will agree with you on one thing completely - the fact they backpedaled at the last minute on their "clothes on you are destructible" decision was kind of counter-productive.
Looking at their financial statement and then what they sold over the weekend according to the leak mails. There is no way anyone could project sufficient revenue from it to meet the gap by their timeline of October.
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Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar
Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 13:09:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Whitehound
Edited by: Whitehound on 28/06/2011 13:05:43
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: El'Niaga
I don't think you understand. ...
No, I think YOU don't understand ...
NO, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND.
See what I did?
Akita? You there? You listening? Yes? ... STFU, nerd. Seriously, you are a terrible whiner.
CCP Alt or hired gun [Whitehound] spotted via obnoxious posting and callous treatment of EVE subscribers.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.06.28 13:10:00 -
[76]
Originally by: El'Niaga
Looking at their financial statement and then what they sold over the weekend according to the leak mails. There is no way anyone could project sufficient revenue from it to meet the gap by their timeline of October.
They don't need to actually get that revenue by then.
They only need to prove an upwards swing in revenue to justify a refinancing of the debt at an affordable interest level.
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.06.28 13:19:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Whitehound on 28/06/2011 13:19:20
Originally by: Akita T
Yes, I see what you did there.
You stopped even trying, that's what you did.
No, wrong. This is what you assume based on your reflection of your own attitude or you are just throwing guesses around. Your head really just keeps spinning the same old crappy thoughts around, round and round again. What you call "meat" is just turd spinning in a toilet bowl and I am out of that age where I play "spin the turd".
You want to buy real goods for ISKs? Then start a thread on it and see what responses you get. Do it!
--
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Fractal Muse
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 13:19:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Whitehound
NO, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND.
See what I did?
Akita? You there? You listening? Yes? ... STFU, nerd. Seriously, you are a terrible whiner.
Whitehound, as a moderately interested third party I can express my view of your conversation with Akita T. You are the one who is coming across as, essentially, everything you are trying to claim Akita T is.
If you choose to 'protest' then do so. But, do not expect to be taken for a martyr or some sort of inspirational figure to everyone else especially when you post the way that you are.
I understand that pointing this out to you, personally, will likely do nothing in regards to your own views in a positive manner but I do so in that vain hope that it may.
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Commander IceQ
Caldari
Spit and Ductape Maintenance
Trade Wind Commodities
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 13:20:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Commander IceQ
Anyway fly safe... or whatever it is that the unsubed people do.
We are protesting and you do not have to thank us for it. Keep playing your game.
Why thank you.
Originally by: Whitehound
We will make sure that you can enjoy doing so in the future and that your game time stays enjoyable and does not get ruined by a creeping featurism and a stagnation of game content.
Too late for that. Last Good games that was released was Quake 1, WarCraft 2, StartCraft, Diablo 2 and Wing Commander 4. Everything after that suffers from creeping featurism and stagnation.
This reminds me of another expansion... oh yeah Cataclysm. Their forums where also aflame with "this expansion will ruin the game" and the "MT items will ruin the game" (the MT store includes 2 mounts which is usable and not just vanity), and from what I have seen so far WoW is still going strong AND Blizzard is developing SC2:Ep2 AND Diablo3.
My Point? Well simply put, I don't have one. Yeah I know EVE and WoW are different, but it seems the communities are the same. :P
Yes, I have a WoW account.
/pointless rant
My Signature is too large... O_o |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 13:21:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Whitehound on 28/06/2011 13:23:18
Originally by: Fractal Muse
...
STFU. I do not want to read your opinion about me on the forums. Stay on the topic.
--
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El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.06.28 13:21:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: El'Niaga
Looking at their financial statement and then what they sold over the weekend according to the leak mails. There is no way anyone could project sufficient revenue from it to meet the gap by their timeline of October.
They don't need to actually get that revenue by then.
They only need to prove an upwards swing in revenue to justify a refinancing of the debt at an affordable interest level.
You can't do that when you lose 5% of subscriptions and I'd say they are past that that's why the emergency CSM meeting.
Basically they've almost shot themselves in the foot for the last week with their actions, they can still right the ship but CCP will be a leaner company coming out of it to survive I believe.
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Miss Rabblt
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Posted - 2011.06.28 13:22:00 -
[82]
i only see people in this forum is trying to destroy Eve yet 
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.06.28 13:23:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Whitehound
You want to buy real goods for ISKs? Then start a thread on it and see what responses you get. Do it!
Are you really so incapable of comprehending written text in English that you really believe I said I want to buy real goods with ISK ?
Is English your primary language ? Do you have some kind of disability that makes you unable to comprehend sarcasm ? Do you need to have the point explained using a different wording you might be more capable of understanding ?
I'm just tying to be helpful here, no offense meant...
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.06.28 13:26:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Whitehound on 28/06/2011 13:27:26
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Whitehound
You want to buy real goods for ISKs? Then start a thread on it and see what responses you get. Do it!
Are you really so incapable of comprehending written text in English that you really believe I said I want to buy real goods with ISK ?
It is what you wrote. Do you want to dodge out?
[] Yes.
[] No.
Originally by: Akita T
I don't know, WHY NOT let us buy real things with ISK ?
--
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Miss Rabblt
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Posted - 2011.06.28 13:30:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Whitehound
Nobody wants to play a game where some kid can walk into with extra cash in the pocket and can just shoot anyone in the face
hm?
1) make new char -> train for 1-2 days -> fit smartbombs destroyer -> go to asteroid belt -> kill hulks and have fun -> biomass char -> repeat from start
2) make new alt -> train for 1-2 days -> fit alphastrike ship -> go to the Jita -> suicide someones Iteron and have fun -> biomass char -> repeat
We already have kids who ever don't need extra cash to shoot anyone in face.... Well. almost anyone
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Karii Ildarian
Caldari
Perkone
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 13:30:00 -
[86]
Originally by: El'Niaga
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: El'Niaga
Looking at their financial statement and then what they sold over the weekend according to the leak mails. There is no way anyone could project sufficient revenue from it to meet the gap by their timeline of October.
They don't need to actually get that revenue by then.
They only need to prove an upwards swing in revenue to justify a refinancing of the debt at an affordable interest level.
You can't do that when you lose 5% of subscriptions and I'd say they are past that that's why the emergency CSM meeting.
Basically they've almost shot themselves in the foot for the last week with their actions, they can still right the ship but CCP will be a leaner company coming out of it to survive I believe.
I think those internal leaks and their subsequent poor handling of them may have put a slight crimp in their plans, but do not doubt that, as soon as the stations are opened for interaction between players, CCP will clean up on vanity items.
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Velios
M. Corp
-Mostly Harmless-
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 13:30:00 -
[87]
NO
I DONT SEE WHY I SHOULD PAY EXTRA MONEY TO PLAY EVE IF IT'S JUST BEING USED TO HELP CCP DEVELOP OTHER GAMES I HAVE NO INTEREST IN
Other games CCP intend to make should have their own investment and business models that don't leech from EVE's income stream.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.06.28 13:31:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Whitehound
It is what you wrote. Do you want to dodge out?
[] Yes.
[] No.
Originally by: Akita T
I don't know, WHY NOT let us buy real things with ISK ?
Dodge out of what ?
Out of a hypothetical sarcastic question I answered in the very next sentence (answer which you edited out, twice now) ?
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.06.28 13:36:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Miss Rabblt
1) make new char -> train for 1-2 days -> fit smartbombs destroyer -> go to asteroid belt -> kill hulks and have fun -> biomass char -> repeat from start
2) make new alt -> train for 1-2 days -> fit alphastrike ship -> go to the Jita -> suicide someones Iteron and have fun -> biomass char -> repeat
We already have kids who ever don't need extra cash to shoot anyone in face.... Well. almost anyone
Biomassing chars in such a way is an exploit and can you get banned. Do not think people have not tried yet. They actually used the Buddy Program to do this, too.
--
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Cataca
|
Posted - 2011.06.28 13:38:00 -
[90]
Originally by: El'Niaga
Looking at their financial statement and then what they sold over the weekend according to the leak mails. There is no way anyone could project sufficient revenue from it to meet the gap by their timeline of October.
They only need to prove that their revenue rises sufficiently till october to get new investors imho. Tho, that is theorycrafting, noone can tell for sure but them.
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