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Higher subcription fees instead of ruining the game

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Haramir Haleths Caldari Nutella Bande	Posted - 2011.06.28 09:19:00 - [1] Hi, so we all knows CCP need more money for Dracula Online and Dust. Now they want produce more revenue due to selling us stuff in EvE and destroying game mechanics and economy. What do you thing about the idea to get more revenue by increasing the monthly fee a little bit. Maybe 2 Euro up per month instead of of selling game breaking crap. Discuss or just flame ...
Epolitus Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.28 09:20:00 - [2] Compared to other MMO's it's high enough. but i would agree on a 3-5% increase.
Tobiaz Spacerats	Posted - 2011.06.28 09:21:00 - [3] I'm not paying more subscription just so CCP can develop WoD. + 1500 votes on MT in EVE \| NO 79.03% \| YES 5.02% \| COSMETIC ONLY 11.23% \| OTHER 4.73%
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.28 09:24:00 - [4] Higher sub price -> most likely less users -> possibly less cash overall -> fail _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Jasdemi Interstellar Whine Brewery	Posted - 2011.06.28 09:25:00 - [5] What exactly is ruining the game? Vanity items? LMAO, poor jealous pilot.
Doris Dents Kismet Inc	Posted - 2011.06.28 09:26:00 - [6] Originally by: Tobiaz I'm not paying more subscription just so CCP can develop WoD. +rep
Mr Epeen It's All About Me	Posted - 2011.06.28 09:28:00 - [7] Originally by: Tobiaz I'm not paying more subscription just so CCP can develop WoD. You are not paying any subscription. Period. You quit. So stop offering your opinion. It's about as relevant as my cats. When you resub, you may offer an opinion again. For now, you can simply STFU. Mr Epeen
Medidranda Livoga	Posted - 2011.06.28 09:28:00 - [8] Originally by: Tobiaz I'm not paying more subscription just so CCP can develop WoD. Begs to questing why are you paying them at all? This game won`t see radical improvements for a while due to aforementioned alternative development paths they.
Maa Ku	Posted - 2011.06.28 09:29:00 - [9] Edited by: Maa Ku on 28/06/2011 09:29:10 Derp. MT is not the problem. It's trust, prices and the hanger view people are raging at. Higher subs is a terrible idea. Seriously CCP, get rid of the PLEX > AUR exchange and just make the monocle $$$ only. Then you don't have to worry about making it $2.50 only and loads of people will buy stuff like that. Problem solved. No-one cares about PLEX > AUX - it's actually the root of all this mess.
Holy One Quiet.Storm Frater Adhuc Excessum	Posted - 2011.06.28 09:31:00 - [10] Originally by: Tobiaz I'm not paying more subscription just so CCP can develop WoD. BBQ makes me hungry for more...

Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.28 09:31:00 - [11] CCP needs to stop trying to make more money. They need to get back to making more game content. Only this will sell properly and it will sell to all generations of EVE players and to all ages while providing fun for many years. Everything else is just stupid and wrong. I am amazed at how any game maker can get of their course like this. --
Katra Novac	Posted - 2011.06.28 09:35:00 - [12] Originally by: Whitehound CCP needs to stop trying to make more money. They need to get back to making more game content. Only this will sell properly and it will sell to all generations of EVE players and to all ages while providing fun for many years. Everything else is just stupid and wrong. I am amazed at how any game maker can get of their course like this. Don't think they have that luxury, they've over stretched themselves.
RougeOperator	Posted - 2011.06.28 09:35:00 - [13] Edited by: RougeOperator on 28/06/2011 09:35:22 Originally by: Haramir Haleths Hi, so we all knows CCP need more money for Dracula Online and Dust. Now they want produce more revenue due to selling us stuff in EvE and destroying game mechanics and economy. What do you thing about the idea to get more revenue by increasing the monthly fee a little bit. Maybe 2 Euro up per month instead of of selling game breaking crap. Discuss or just flame ... I shouldnt have to pay more money cause they made bad choices. If they treat and think of us this poorly now when we are the golden goose. I am not encouraged for how they will treat us players when they have a new golden goose. They also funneled all the money i pay for updates to eve to other games. They can rotate on it.
Inherent Vice	Posted - 2011.06.28 09:38:00 - [14] How about pre-order packages for Dust and WoD? A lot of people seems do dislike WoD. I¦m looking forward to ganking some emo***s.
Tobiaz Spacerats	Posted - 2011.06.28 09:38:00 - [15] Originally by: Mr Epeen Originally by: Tobiaz I'm not paying more subscription just so CCP can develop WoD. You are not paying any subscription. Period. You quit. So stop offering your opinion. It's about as relevant as my cats. When you resub, you may offer an opinion again. For now, you can simply STFU. Mr Epeen I have paid subs for 8 years. I will continue to pay subs if CCP get their heads out of their corporate asses. But if I do, I wil NOT pay more subscription just so CCP can dump more money into WoD to jump onto the twilight bandwagon. And FYI, I didn't 'quit'. I cancelled my subs as an act of protest. I guess you troll-brain is too small to grasp the difference between the two. I intent to use all the gameplay time I have left and might even use the PLEX I have in my hangar. But CCP is not getting more money from me for the time being. + 1500 votes on MT in EVE \| NO 79.03% \| YES 5.02% \| COSMETIC ONLY 11.23% \| OTHER 4.73%
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.28 09:43:00 - [16] Originally by: Katra Novac Don't think they have that luxury, they've over stretched themselves. Nonsense. It is not a luxury, it is a necessity. And if they have "over stretched" themselves as you say, to the point of no return, then they deserve to lose. Or like we say, do not fly what you cannot afford to lose. The same is true for all of us if it is in real-life or in-game. --
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2011.06.28 09:43:00 - [17] MTs mean that those who want to spend more money on the game can do so. EVE is profitable as it stands. CCP bet the farm on WoD and Dust 514, if they need extra funds they'll be able to raise them through their fanatically loyal customers using paint jobs for ships, fancy clothes for CQ avatars, and a few vanity items which don't fall into either category. CCP won't need to introduce "concierge" or "power" items to make some extra cash. With a decent selection of clothing (and especially if they run the fashion shop like Zara), CCP will be raking in the cash. It's also worth remembering that most people will not be paying cash for items. They'll be buying items with Aurum made from ISK-bought PLEX. It's some other silly bugger exchanging his real dollars for ISK that will actually be funding the operation. Say yes to parting fools from their money :) [ Australian players join channel ANZAC ]
Mr Epeen It's All About Me	Posted - 2011.06.28 09:48:00 - [18] Originally by: Tobiaz Originally by: Mr Epeen Originally by: Tobiaz I'm not paying more subscription just so CCP can develop WoD. You are not paying any subscription. Period. You quit. So stop offering your opinion. It's about as relevant as my cats. When you resub, you may offer an opinion again. For now, you can simply STFU. Mr Epeen I have paid subs for 8 years. I will continue to pay subs if CCP get their heads out of their corporate asses. But if I do, I wil NOT pay more subscription just so CCP can dump more money into WoD to jump onto the twilight bandwagon. And FYI, I didn't 'quit'. I cancelled my subs as an act of protest. I guess you troll-brain is too small to grasp the difference between the two. I intent to use all the gameplay time I have left and might even use the PLEX I have in my hangar. But CCP is not getting more money from me for the time being. So you protest by...continuing to play the game? Interesting strategy. I guess I'm a protester too, then. I just skipped the whole impotent threat part and went straight to the continue playing bit. Mr Epeen
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE	Posted - 2011.06.28 09:55:00 - [19] Funky thing really, isn't it? This game gets older and older, and we get less and less :spaceships: and less and less focus on actually iterate on what exists. What we do get, is a more expensive game, an older game, a more buggy game, and content that is irrelevant to the majority of the existing playerbase. (not saying the content is wrong, but existing players would've played without it, in that sense it's "useless"). Paying more, paying less.. I couldn't care much about either tbh, what I'd like tho, is to get the EVE back that I been supporting for soon a decade. The moneysucking WoD/Dust-developing monster who ignores :spaceships: while lying to its customers is not what I'd like to support in either case, be it high- or low subscription fee.. -
Gallente Nundinae	Posted - 2011.06.28 09:57:00 - [20] Not sure if I would want to pay more on a subscription fee if it's clearly going toward other games...

Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.28 10:00:00 - [21] Originally by: Mara Rinn MTs mean that those who want to spend more money on the game can do so. It also means that if you allow them to do so will others leave the game. Nobody wants to play a game where some kid can walk into with extra cash in the pocket and can just shoot anyone in the face, or just walk around in better clothing than others. Perhaps you should have grown up in a country where they have school uniforms. It works. --
Scarlet des Loupes Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2011.06.28 10:16:00 - [22] Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: Mara Rinn MTs mean that those who want to spend more money on the game can do so. It also means that if you allow them to do so will others leave the game. Nobody wants to play a game where some kid can walk into with extra cash in the pocket and can just shoot anyone in the face, or just walk around in better clothing than others. Perhaps you should have grown up in a country where they have school uniforms. It works. I guess you just can't make everybody happy. Some people's preferences are mutually exclusive.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.28 10:20:00 - [23] Edited by: Akita T on 28/06/2011 10:24:56 Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: Mara Rinn MTs mean that those who want to spend more money on the game can do so. It also means that if you allow them to do so will others leave the game. Quite a few will SAY they would, and for a while some actually might... but the vast majority won't. Quote: Nobody wants to play a game where some kid can walk into with extra cash in the pocket and can just shoot anyone in the face, or just walk around in better clothing than others. From a certain viewpoint, this is already happening. Sell PLEX for ISK, buy the best gear most others can't afford. You can sidestep the issue as much as you like, but fact remains, right now, and since many years ago, you CAN "pay to win" already. From the opposite viewpoint, this will never happen. Since all the items and services can be purchased INDIRECTLY with ISK (while somebody ELSE foots the cash bill for the PLEX), and the items themselves (once in the game) can be traded on the open market, everybody will have access to all content without ever spending a dime of real cash. So it can't possibly get more "pay to win" than it already is. So, what exactly is the issue ? Perception, maybe. Reality, most certainly not. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Solosky	Posted - 2011.06.28 10:39:00 - [24] Edited by: Solosky on 28/06/2011 10:41:41 CCP has enough money to make real jewel from EVE - but they feeding like 200 developers of WoD and Dust while EVE suffering from various issues and progress ridiculously slow. You want to spend some money - better donate to Red Cross instead of WoD development.
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2011.06.28 10:47:00 - [25] Originally by: Whitehound Perhaps you should have grown up in a country where they have school uniforms. It works. I did. It doesn't. I went to a private school, and while they instil a sense of conformity and "belonging" for most of the people there, those of my friends who I rate as most successful are the ones who went to public schools and forged their own identities. It's also worth pointing out that the schools around where I live that have uniforms are private schools. i.e.: parents who have lots of money send their kids off to a school with a uniform in the mistaken belief that money buys success. Which is ironically pertinent to the discussion at hand. While money can buy power - extend a loan or two and suddenly people will do what you tell them because they are indebted to you - it doesn't necessarily buy success. Anyone who is going to be successful will end up making their own money anyway. Buying ISK for dollars comes down to that ages old argument about the time rich/money poor versus the time poor/money rich. Both sets of people can get the same advantage in game, they just get to that advantage through a different route. The money rich people take advantage of the services offered by the time rich people. ISK changes hands, not power. If people are going to leave the game because some folks are buying $70 monocles, good for them. There are better things to do with your life than play an MMO where you are jealous of people with monocles. I would prefer it if the monocle was sold through the NeX as a BPC or PI schematic - in fact, I'd like to see NeX operating as an LP store rather than a different-currencied-market. Why the clothes are allowed to come into existence without consuming vast quantities of polytextiles is beyond me. What it comes down to is whether you accept as valid CCP's argument that there needs to be a PLEX sink other than being blown up or used as subscriptions. I would like to give CCP the option to destroy PLEX for creative purposes. I would like to fund a team of fashion designers, 3D modellers, programmers, etc through extra voluntary contributions to CCPs coffers. I disagree with the way they've implemented it so far, but that's just implementation details. The Devil is, of course, in the details. We (through the CSM) have drawn a line in the sand with CCP - "vanity items only". CCP have agreed to this, statements in "Fearless" aside, and I look forward to seeing what they can pleasantly surprise us with (though again, I'd prefer to see BPCs and Schematics, not actual items, sold through NeX). And my point about private schools still stands. Ironic that you'd use that as an argument against microtransactions. [ Australian players join channel ANZAC ]
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.28 10:51:00 - [26] Edited by: Whitehound on 28/06/2011 10:55:13 Originally by: Akita T Quite a few will SAY they would, and for a while some actually might... but the vast majority won't. You are being arrogant. Is this how you support the protest, Akita? Where does your arrogance come from? Did you never protest and therefore have resigned and grown an attitude against protesting? It does not matter if people leave as an act of protest. They all know that it is not what they want. They might stay regardless or maybe they will not. It does not matter. What matters is that if they do stay then they will not stay because of the game. They will stay because of the friends they have made here. Quote: From a certain viewpoint, this is already happening. From your viewpoint? I do not care how you twist and turn your head to keep liking a game that is changing for worse. You want to blame people's perception for it? You are a god damn nut job if you think that a game has got anything to do with reality. It is a game. I would say that your perception is the one that needs to be looked at. Next thing we know you want to buy yourself a real car with ISKs. --
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.28 10:53:00 - [27] Originally by: Mara Rinn I did. It doesn't. I went to a private school, and while they instil a sense of conformity and "belonging" for most of the people there, those of my friends who I rate as most successful are the ones who went to public schools and forged their own identities. Exactly. They did not just buy themselves better clothing to be someone or to be better than others, did they? It works. --
Tarinara	Posted - 2011.06.28 10:54:00 - [28] If CCSparkle Monocle was actually developing something and producing content for Eve ... probably 'no' on a price increase. $15.00USD/month is pretty much the price point for a monthly MMO subscription. Anything more and they need to have something 'special' to justify it. And no new interwebz spaceship content, Interwebz Dress-up Barbie and a P2W shop certainly is nothing special IMO. So while Eve 'may still' be king of the hill for internet spaceships - they keep leaving the door open for someone to put a foot in the middle of their back and kick them off that hill. You want to clicky-clicky make stuff? Farmville is free. You want 'Dress Up'? Second Life or the Sims is calling your name. And from what I've heard: Black Prophecy is quite a lot of things Eve is. And it's F2P + Cash Shop. No manditory P2P entrance fee involved. So - even if they did start actually adding internet spaceship related content: this game is falling behind on it's basic premise and barely worth the $15 they're charging now.
Smoking Blunts	Posted - 2011.06.28 10:56:00 - [29] maybe they can opt for the no **** patches option, then they wouldnt be ruining there game
Flag Bravo Minmatar	Posted - 2011.06.28 10:56:00 - [30] No ccping way, the ccping ccps, are charging to much for a ccping subscription as it is. If they are ccping skint then it's their ccping fault having a crap ccping money management. Ccping motherccpers.

jjnn	Posted - 2011.06.28 11:07:00 - [31] so they need more money to make another game? what about this game?no new content since i joined but we pay more so they can make another game D are ccp turning into bankers we should give them money for nothing?
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.28 11:18:00 - [32] Edited by: Akita T on 28/06/2011 11:26:48 Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: Akita T Quite a few will SAY they would, and for a while some actually might... but the vast majority won't. You are being arrogant. Is this how you support the protest, Akita? Where does your arrogance come from? Did you never protest and therefore have resigned and grown an attitude against protesting? I am merely being realistic, pragmatic and maybe a tad bit optimistic (if you can call the hope that CCP aren't complete morons "optimism"). Also, why exactly should I be supportive of a protest I believe to be at best misguided, and at worst, damaging the game as a whole ? And if you believe I never protested anything, the "you never saw me in real life" counter is not even needed, since you should have noticed it quite clearly in the forums regarding countless different issues. Now, the fact that I don't throw a hissy fit and threaten to cancel my bajillion subscriptions and also convince my umpteen hundred friends to also cancel theirs, instead trying to give explanations as to why something is bad and what effect it will have, that's not protesting enough for you ? Would I have to have a bomb strapped to my chest while screaming slogans from a megaphone to call me a protester in real life ? Quote: Quote: From a certain viewpoint, this is already happening. From the opposite viewpoint, this will never happen. From your viewpoint? I presented two (almost completely diametrically) opposite viewpoints, and explained them a bit. Which one of them is my viewpoint, IF ANY, is wholly irrelevant. Did you have any problem comprehending the second one, or was it merely inconvenient to acknowledge its existence ? Quote: I do not care how you twist and turn your head to keep liking a game that is changing for worse. The game is changing for the worse for a completely different set of reasons, and this MT debacle is merely a small symptom of the problems, NOT the actual problem, not even close. Do you think I like how many screwed up balance changes we've had lately ? Or how many bugs accrue or even resurface after each patch ? Or that we haven't had any "meaty" economy related expansions in ages ? Or that... you know what, the list of things that annoy me more and more about EVE is growing ever larger every day. But the NEX is not one of them - at least, not the NEX that's supposed to be implemented (namely, a LP-shop with AUR instead of LP). I MIGHT have a problem with some of the items and services that will be introduced in the NEX, or I might only have a problem with the chosen pricing (if it's TOO LOW), but that will be on a case by case basis, not a blanket rage about the entire NEX existence. Quote: You want to blame people's perception for it? You are a god damn nut job if you think that a game has got anything to do with reality. It is a game. I would say that your perception is the one that needs to be looked at. Next thing we know you want to buy yourself a real car with ISKs. How exactly do you get from me explaining the flaws in the (claimed//touted) reasoning of the protesters to accusing me of... well, whatever it is you're accusing me of ? I can't really tell what exactly about that you think is supposed to make me feel uncomfortable. Fact remains, the protesters are NOT thinking rationally, but emotionally. The rational argument, I just presented. Their perception of reality is coloured by anger, anger stemming from misunderstanding the realities of the game they've invested so much into, and the implications of upcoming changes. So, yes, you can bet your behind I'm blaming people's perceptions. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.28 11:26:00 - [33] Originally by: Akita T I am merely being realistic... No, you are being a douche in a time where others unite. Quote: Which one of them is my viewpoint, IF ANY, is wholly irrelevant. Ok, I will ignore them all then and ignore your ranting. Quote: So how exactly do you get from me explaining the flaws in the (claimed//touted) reasoning of the protesters to accusing me of... well, whatever it is you're accusing me of ? You started going into a viewpoint without balls. You said that it can be seen like this and that bla bla bla. So let us prod this door wide open! Not just argue about buying SPs and what else with real money, but let us buy real things with ISKs, too. Is this suddenly all very strange to you?! --
DeODokktor Caldari Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium	Posted - 2011.06.28 11:30:00 - [34] The increase in subs would only make the books look better in the short term. Some of us have stacked up on game time, for us there would be no price increase. Plexes would also need to increase in price. It might be doable, hard to know at what point customers will walk. ----------- Never Forget the joy of finding a main to link to a scammer alt. N-y-p-h-u-r ! !
Portmanteau Gallente CTRL-Q	Posted - 2011.06.28 11:34:00 - [35] I might actuallt pay it (not sure), but too many folks wouldn't and the increase would be lost in cancelled subs IMHO : CLAIRVOYANT:
Ki'ara	Posted - 2011.06.28 11:38:00 - [36] Originally by: Haramir Haleths Hi, so we all knows CCP need more money for Dracula Online and Dust. Now they want produce more revenue due to selling us stuff in EvE and destroying game mechanics and economy. What do you thing about the idea to get more revenue by increasing the monthly fee a little bit. Maybe 2 Euro up per month instead of of selling game breaking crap. Discuss or just flame ... They should stop to develop crap like Dust or the Vampire things, instead they should spend there money in real expansions to eve. Not that crap we got the last 2 years.
Ranita Drell	Posted - 2011.06.28 11:48:00 - [37] While I'd much prefer to see EVE adopt higher subscription fees than enter the realm of non-vanity MT, I don't think it's the right solution. EVE is a niche game but it doesn't offer what I would call a "premium" gaming experience, which that it will be hard for potential subscribers to justify paying a price premium. EVE's flaws and idiosyncrasies may be acceptable in a game that charges basically the same prices as every other non-F2P MMO ... but go significantly above that in pricing, and a lot of people just aren't going to be willing to pay. And those who do may be justifiably bitter about it. This is especially the case given that EVE isn't even being aggressively developed and improved. If one could look forward to an Apocrypha caliber expansion every 8 months (and/or robust iteration of old systems/content) along with timely game balancing tweaks, I could maybe see people saying "EVE is great, and I don't mind paying a few bucks extra every month to make sure it gets even better!" But we should know that wouldn't be the reality. We'll still be funding DUST and WoD for some time to come, especially if DUST doesn't live up to expectations. So if it's a choice between EVE dying, raising subscription prices or corrupting the game with non-vanity MT, then yeah, raise the price I guess. That's a last resort, though. I don't know if I'd go along with it.
Raven Aldura	Posted - 2011.06.28 11:49:00 - [38] MT -> chose if I want to pay more Higher Sub fee -> Forced to pay more Wha? You prefer a high sub? No way!
Valei Khurelem	Posted - 2011.06.28 11:51:00 - [39] If such a small company wasn't trying to develop two games at once along with an expansion for EVE then the stupid morons wouldn't be in this mess in the first place so **** off.
ACY GTMI Veerhouven Group The Veerhouven Group	Posted - 2011.06.28 11:51:00 - [40] CCP's rumored lack of funds is not our responsibility. I'd rather see CCP shut down due to lack of funds than players being able to spend AUR for in-game advantage. If you don't understand the difference between MT provided in-game advantages and the existing system, you're an idiot. *************************************************** Two years from now --> Gamer: "CCP? Never heard of it."

Tiven loves Tansien	Posted - 2011.06.28 11:52:00 - [41] Originally by: Tobiaz I'm not paying more subscription just so CCP can develop WoD. This
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.28 11:55:00 - [42] Edited by: Akita T on 28/06/2011 11:56:01 Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: Akita T I am merely being realistic... No, you are being a douche in a time where others unite. So, I should be supportive of ANY group of protesters I come across, even if I hold a completely opposite opinion on what needs to be done, and what is wrong as opposed to acceptable ? Yeah, right... Quote: Quote: Which one of them is my viewpoint, IF ANY, is wholly irrelevant. Ok, I will ignore them all then and ignore your ranting. And I'm the douche here ? I gave you a logical series of easily provable facts and inferences detailing the situation when viewed from two different viewpoints. And you instead choose to disregard them because I don't think it matters which one single particular viewpoint I prefer ? If you must know, I ascribe to BOTH viewpoints, because I'm not a close-minded, horse-blinders wearing pseudointellectual. My brain can handle more than one viewpoint, in fact, it can handle quite a lot of different viewpoints. Doesn't mean I have to agree with the conclusions of those that refuse to see the big picture and only look at the issue directly in front of their nose through their narrow self-imposed perception limiters. Quote: Quote: So how exactly do you get from me explaining the flaws in the (claimed//touted) reasoning of the protesters to accusing me of... well, whatever it is you're accusing me of ? You started going into a viewpoint without balls. You said that it can be seen like this and that bla bla bla. So let us prod this door wide open! Not just argue about buying SPs and what else with real money, but let us buy real things with ISKs, too. Is this suddenly all very strange to you?! I don't know, WHY NOT let us buy real things with ISK ? Oh, wait, because then CCP loses money, that's why. And last time I checked, if they go under, EVE goes under, and the whole freaking argument about the moral virtues of not allowing microtransactions is not worth the paper it's not printed on. Facts remain : the protesters are screaming against the idea of being able to buy an ingame advantage with real-life cash and the idea that NEX items have to cause damage to the game's market//economy THOSE THINGS THEY ARE PROTESTING ARE BASED ON INACCURATE PERCEPTIONS. You can already buy an advantage with cash in EVE, via PLEX sales. Adding items in the NEX will not make the game any more nor any less "pay to win" than it already is. And everybody will have access to NEX items even if they never pay any cash to CCP. NEX will not cause any more damage than LP shops now do, when fully implemented. And the economic impact of any of the items in there will depend wholly on the attached AUR price tag, and as such, each one of them needs to be considered on a case by case basis, a blanket "NEX is evil" statement is ridiculous. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.06.28 11:57:00 - [43] Higher subscription fee means your average Plex would suddenly be worth more. People with a stockpile of Plex's (think RMTers, for example) would suddenly find their wealth boosted by a large amount. The ISK price of a Plex would shoot up, devaluing the ISK overall. It would, in all reality, send the Eve economy into a tailspin, at least for a while. Raise the sub fee, screw the economy. Similar effect with pay to win. Demand for Plex would increase, causing the prices to increase, same effects on the ISK. Either path throws off the economy. FREE Helicity and Niang!
Demure Guise	Posted - 2011.06.28 12:02:00 - [44] Edited by: Demure Guise on 28/06/2011 12:04:30 Originally by: Jasdemi What exactly is ruining the game? Vanity items? LMAO, poor jealous pilot. Wait. You actually think it's Vanity Items causing the ruckus? AAAahahahahahahahaha - LMAO, poor, utterly clueless pilot. As for giving CCP more of my money, **** that. If the bungling incompetents hadn't wasted our money on the development of two other games they wouldn't BE in a financial mess. Maybe "Mr. $1,000 Jeans Dude" should start selling his jeans collection to raise money.
Abyssal Void	Posted - 2011.06.28 12:02:00 - [45] Edited by: Abyssal Void on 28/06/2011 12:04:23 Wow. I feel sorry for CCP. To have a customer base this moronic. All these ppl freaking out over eyewear? Are you ****ing kidding me? Or the other bit about a game developer actually developing games. God forbid they would ever do that. Lol you guys are freaking hilarious! Edit: Didnt see last one before posting this. Maybe you could explain the game breaking advantages being sold in that store. I seem to have missed them.
Seul Manus	Posted - 2011.06.28 12:04:00 - [46] No. I pay enough.
Portmanteau Gallente CTRL-Q	Posted - 2011.06.28 12:05:00 - [47] Originally by: Abyssal Void Edited by: Abyssal Void on 28/06/2011 12:04:23 Wow. I feel sorry for CCP. To have a customer base this moronic. All these ppl freaking out over eyewear? Are you ****ing kidding me? Or the other bit about a game developer actually developing games. God forbid they would ever do that. Lol you guys are freaking hilarious! Edit: Didnt see last one before posting this. Maybe you could explain the game breaking advantages being sold in that store. I seem to have missed them. lol another no poasting history alt created to belittle the playerbase and blow smoke up CCP's arse
Seul Manus	Posted - 2011.06.28 12:06:00 - [48] Originally by: Jasdemi What exactly is ruining the game? Vanity items? LMAO, poor jealous pilot. Bad management decisions, and a cronic lack of communication to the lower ranks who do the actual coding ect.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.28 12:08:00 - [49] Originally by: Ingvar Angst Similar effect with pay to win. Demand for Plex would increase, causing the prices to increase, same effects on the ISK. Either path throws off the economy. It is not absolutely certain that prices would increase as a response to increased demand. The PLEX supply/demand curves are certainly not the traditional "elastic" ones. For instance, an increase in PLEX price, while almost certainly reducing demand for PLEX as a sub-payment method would at the same time very likely increase demand for PLEX as an investment tool, a hedge against inflation or any other number of reasons people would prefer to stockpile PLEX. At the same time, the increase in PLEX price could increase supply, but it will generally do so thanks to increase purchaser count, not due to increased purchasing per individual - in fact, it's almost certain for the average spending per individual would decrease, thanks to people having a target of "buy X ISK" (as opposed to "spend Y USD on ISK"). Depending on just how much lower the individual spending gets compared to how much higher the number of spenders climb, the supply of PLEX could conceivably even go DOWN with increased prices, not up as you'd normally expect, at least in certain intervals. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Abyssal Void	Posted - 2011.06.28 12:08:00 - [50] Have been playing for years thank you. Just havent spent a lot of time on the forums....now I remember why.

Pookie McPook	Posted - 2011.06.28 12:09:00 - [51] I've been suggesting higher subs since this broke. I'm all for it and for those economics wizards who are suggesting that higher subs -> fewer players -> less money, need to go back to school. When you are talking about such small sums a month then that "rule" is redundant. Also , I'm ignoring the fact that the whiners will spend more than the monthly sub on booze or cigarettes every day. ----- Marmite. Rocket fuel of champions.
El'Niaga Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2011.06.28 12:10:00 - [52] While a slight increase I might could do, CCP's problem is a spending problem. They have overextended their capital. They grew to big on just EVE alone, there is the old adage Man should not go faster than he is prepared. EVE Online could easily have provided for itself and the development of 1 other game, but they moved to buyout White Wolf, then put 2 games into Development. Just to much. They probably need to shelve WoD for the time being so that they can complete DUST 514 and maintain EVE. Thus stabilizing their spending to revenue stream. Yes I realize it means some people at CCP will have to be let go that's unavoidable. Either a few must be sacrificed for the many or they may all be lost.
Karii Ildarian Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2011.06.28 12:13:00 - [53] I firmly believe that as soon as CCP opens the door to the station interior and allows for actual ambulatory interation, their RMT profits will soar. So, finish those stations...
Abyssal Void	Posted - 2011.06.28 12:14:00 - [54] If they have really overextended themselves that much then they just shut down production on WoD and cut overhead. Even Dust if they needed to. I suppose they could just keep the profits from the game instead of using it to make more games. Would that make everyone happy?
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.28 12:17:00 - [55] Originally by: El'Niaga They probably need to shelve WoD for the time being so that they can complete DUST 514 and maintain EVE. Thus stabilizing their spending to revenue stream. Yes I realize it means some people at CCP will have to be let go that's unavoidable. Either a few must be sacrificed for the many or they may all be lost. Oh, hey, what an interesting concept... so you'd rather like to see quite a few people lose their jobs than ever see microtransactions in a game you play that WOULD allow you access to all the MT-based content without ever spending a dime ? Well, I know who I would sacrifice instead of my employees - namely, I would sacrifice those subscribers that just can't live with the idea of playing a game which has some limited form of microtransactions (especially since they were already playing the game for ages with microtransactions included, but only as far as sub payment went). _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Narisa Bithon Caldari The Motley Crew Reborn	Posted - 2011.06.28 12:27:00 - [56] Edited by: Narisa Bithon on 28/06/2011 12:35:20 what if ccp introduced a new outpost type for sov 0.0 maybe a Concord Outpost (egg bpo + upgrade bpos available from concord station's LP store for 4 plex a piece) that allows supers to dock to a giant docking ring tier 0 = max 6 superscarriers docked tier 1 = max 9 superscarriers docked tier 2 = max 12 supercarriers + 6 titans docked tier 3 = max 15 supercarriers + 9 titans docked also allow these outposts to be anchored in any sov system where alliance has sov 3 even if the system has one of the other 4 types there too. this would create a big isk sink to burn off alot of plex. the outpost could look similar to the gallente outpost but the tier 0 starts off with 2 rings (3x sc per ring) at the base... each upgrade adds more rings
El'Niaga Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2011.06.28 12:32:00 - [57] Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 28/06/2011 12:17:45 Originally by: El'Niaga They probably need to shelve WoD for the time being so that they can complete DUST 514 and maintain EVE. Thus stabilizing their spending to revenue stream. Yes I realize it means some people at CCP will have to be let go that's unavoidable. Either a few must be sacrificed for the many or they may all be lost. Oh, hey, what an interesting concept... so you'd rather like to see quite a few people lose their jobs than ever see microtransactions in a game you play that WOULD allow you access to all the MT-based content without ever spending a dime ? Well, I know who I would sacrifice instead of my employees - namely, I would sacrifice those subscribers that just can't live with the idea of playing a game which has some limited form of microtransactions (especially since they were already playing the game for ages with microtransactions included, but only as far as sub payment tokens went). I don't think you understand. They can't make enough off the NEX store to make up the revenue gap. Not at the relative small showing of items and high prices. If they'd released 100 1 dollar items that were destroyed when your pod killed they could easily have sold three or four times the monetary value than they have with 30 dollar pants and 70 dollar monocles. It is a flawed roll out and philosophy really. Which emanated from the top levels of the company. They can still turn it around, but honestly they need to streamline their development processes and get rid of unneeded or unproductive staff.
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.28 12:33:00 - [58] Edited by: Whitehound on 28/06/2011 12:37:10 Originally by: Akita T So, I should be supportive of ANY group of protesters I come across, even if I hold a completely opposite opinion on what needs to be done, and what is wrong as opposed to acceptable ? Yeah, right... You have an opinion on what needs to be done? I thought this is a protest about what the players want, not on what everyone should be doing. I am beginning to think that I am just feeding a troll again ... Quote: And I'm the douche here ? Yes. And why should I concern myself on viewpoints that are not yours? Quote: I gave you a logical series of easily provable facts and inferences detailing the situation when viewed from two different viewpoints. I did not ask for it. Quote: My brain can handle more than one viewpoint, in fact, it can handle quite a lot of different viewpoints. Can it handle all viewpoints? Mine can. I take a step back, move into a new dimension and look at the problem as a whole. Quote: I don't know, WHY NOT let us buy real things with ISK ? Yes! Let us forget about making games and let us put an Apple Store into Jita. Instead of playing just a game can we now shoot each other over the new iPhone. And let us invent toilets with ice cream machines, so one can go onto a toilet and eat ice cream at the same time. Do you not love eating ice cream when you are on the toilet? It is so much better to spend time on the toilet when you can eat ice cream, too. YOU ARE GOD DAMN STUPID, Akita Troll. And you have no life. Get one. --
Demure Guise	Posted - 2011.06.28 12:34:00 - [59] Originally by: Abyssal Void Edit: Didnt see last one before posting this. Maybe you could explain the game breaking advantages being sold in that store. I seem to have missed them. That isn't the issue either - because, as we all know, as yet there aren't any yet. YET being the operative word. A VERY quick precis for you, since threads explaining the ACTUAL gripes are widely available anyway. Fade to 24/6/2010 and CCP Shadow in the 'SP Microtransaction Megathread': "Our business model isn't changing. You have nothing to be concerned about." Then, "No. There are no microtransaction plans, whatsoever." Then, "We do not have plans to go microtransaction with Eve." (his bold and underlining, not mine.) Fade to today. CCP need cash, bad. They're overextended. Result: vanity items, which rational people think are hilarious but harmless. Via the very Microtransactions they apparently had no intentions of introducing. Wait. What? We're getting similar sentiments expressed about non-vanity items. Remembering the above chain of events, we asked EXACTLY what WERE they going to be doing about non-vanity items. A simple, unequivocal answer that eliminated any chance of misinterpretation. Two blogs of CCP WaffleSpeak later and still nobody knows where they stand. Did they mean "No Gold Ammo" to mean ALL non-vanity microtransactions, or just "Ammo even better than Faction Ammo"? Your guess is as good as ours, as they are seemingly incapable of a straight-up, incontrovertible yes or no answer. As the saying goes "Fool us once, shame on you. Fool us twice, shame on us."
Water MEI	Posted - 2011.06.28 12:35:00 - [60] higher sub -> PLEX price increase... so it is probably a good idea to horde PLEX atm in-case a sub increase, then we sell them for $ or ISK and earn a profit!!!

Commander IceQ Caldari Spit and Ductape Maintenance Trade Wind Commodities	Posted - 2011.06.28 12:43:00 - [61] Originally by: Whitehound You started going into a viewpoint without balls. LoL. I am sorry but Akita T actually posted a very good argument and made some valid points, since these viewpoints deflates the a lot of the "P2W" arguments, I would say that Akita has balls. While in the mean time you resort to short sentences that don't say anything and name calling. Originally by: Whitehound No, you are being a douche in a time where others unite. I am sorry to say this but as far as I can see the community is very much united. Some people, like Akita T and myself, see things differently and we are staying calm, and not running around in our knickers and setting ourselves on fire. So you can call me whatever names you wish, I am still playing the game. I am still enjoying it. MT has not changed the way I play the game. I am 39 Days from flying a Carrier. And the only way I am going to be stopped from reaching that goal is if CCP closes the server down. If people want to unsub, they can be my guest. When all this has been resolved, and they resub they will be flooding this forum with "I want the SP I lost from protest unsub!!". Which would just prove that you can't make everyone happy. Anyway fly safe... or whatever it is that the unsubed people do. My Signature is too large... O_o
DeODokktor Caldari Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium	Posted - 2011.06.28 12:46:00 - [62] Originally by: Water MEI higher sub -> PLEX price increase... so it is probably a good idea to horde PLEX atm in-case a sub increase, then we sell them for $ or ISK and earn a profit!!! Selling a PLEX for $$$ is against the rules..... Selling 60d codes for $$$ is possible, but dont expect it to be well received as ccp will not guarantee this. ----------- Never Forget the joy of finding a main to link to a scammer alt. N-y-p-h-u-r ! !
Abyssal Void	Posted - 2011.06.28 12:53:00 - [63] Originally by: Demure Guise Originally by: Abyssal Void Edit: Didnt see last one before posting this. Maybe you could explain the game breaking advantages being sold in that store. I seem to have missed them. That isn't the issue either - because, as we all know, as yet there aren't any yet. YET being the operative word. A VERY quick precis for you, since threads explaining the ACTUAL gripes are widely available anyway. Fade to 24/6/2010 and CCP Shadow in the 'SP Microtransaction Megathread': "Our business model isn't changing. You have nothing to be concerned about." Then, "No. There are no microtransaction plans, whatsoever." Then, "We do not have plans to go microtransaction with Eve." (his bold and underlining, not mine.) Fade to today. CCP need cash, bad. They're overextended. Result: vanity items, which rational people think are hilarious but harmless. Via the very Microtransactions they apparently had no intentions of introducing. Wait. What? We're getting similar sentiments expressed about non-vanity items. Remembering the above chain of events, we asked EXACTLY what WERE they going to be doing about non-vanity items. A simple, unequivocal answer that eliminated any chance of misinterpretation. Two blogs of CCP WaffleSpeak later and still nobody knows where they stand. Did they mean "No Gold Ammo" to mean ALL non-vanity microtransactions, or just "Ammo even better than Faction Ammo"? Your guess is as good as ours, as they are seemingly incapable of a straight-up, incontrovertible yes or no answer. As the saying goes "Fool us once, shame on you. Fool us twice, shame on us." So they said at some point they did not have a plan to do something. Then at a latter time they made a plan and did it. You make it sound like they lied. So you are saying that it is a sure thing that they will do something they have said they will NOT do. I heard CCPSoundwave say it quite clearly in a video blog.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.28 12:56:00 - [64] Originally by: El'Niaga Originally by: Akita T Originally by: El'Niaga They probably need to shelve WoD for the time being so that they can complete DUST 514 and maintain EVE. Thus stabilizing their spending to revenue stream. Yes I realize it means some people at CCP will have to be let go that's unavoidable. Either a few must be sacrificed for the many or they may all be lost. Oh, hey, what an interesting concept... so you'd rather like to see quite a few people lose their jobs than ever see microtransactions in a game you play that WOULD allow you access to all the MT-based content without ever spending a dime ? Well, I know who I would sacrifice instead of my employees - namely, I would sacrifice those subscribers that just can't live with the idea of playing a game which has some limited form of microtransactions (especially since they were already playing the game for ages with microtransactions included, but only as far as sub payment tokens went). I don't think you understand. They can't make enough off the NEX store to make up the revenue gap. Not at the relative small showing of items and high prices. If they'd released 100 1 dollar items that were destroyed when your pod killed they could easily have sold three or four times the monetary value than they have with 30 dollar pants and 70 dollar monocles. It is a flawed roll out and philosophy really. Which emanated from the top levels of the company. They can still turn it around, but honestly they need to streamline their development processes and get rid of unneeded or unproductive staff. No, I think YOU don't understand what they have the opportunity to do. Maybe they won't do it like I describe below, and THAT would be a wasted opportunity. What makes you think this very slim selection of uber-expensive items is the only round of items, and the only price tier of items that will be introduced ? They stuck most of the most expensive ones in first to establish a "price anchor". When the new items come in at half the price (with the old ones remaining where they are), many more will buy them compared to how many would have bought them if they would have been introduced from the start. They might introduce a few more items at price levels similar to the old ones, or even one item that's even more expensive, so that you don't feel like waiting it out will certainly make you get stuff cheaper soon, which should also boost sales. But I will agree with you on one thing completely - the fact they backpedaled at the last minute on their "clothes on you are destructible" decision was kind of counter-productive. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Andrei Vassaliev Cursed Inc. Not Found.	Posted - 2011.06.28 12:58:00 - [65] Originally by: Haramir Haleths Hi, Discuss or just flame ... Flame.
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.28 12:59:00 - [66] Edited by: Whitehound on 28/06/2011 12:59:50 Originally by: Commander IceQ Anyway fly safe... or whatever it is that the unsubed people do. We are protesting and you do not have to thank us for it. Keep playing your game. We will make sure that you can enjoy doing so in the future and that your game time stays enjoyable and does not get ruined by a creeping featurism and a stagnation of game content. --
Aodha Khan Minmatar Deviance Cartel Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2011.06.28 12:59:00 - [67] Edited by: Aodha Khan on 28/06/2011 13:00:16 Originally by: Haramir Haleths What do you thing about the idea to get more revenue by increasing the monthly fee a little bit. Maybe 2 Euro up per month instead of of selling game breaking crap. I rather that than MT. However, I prefer it if they continued to use my subscription to develop EVE ONLINE. Make Dracula Online and Dust seperate projects with seperate budgets and start off just like they did with Eve Online from scratch instead if using all of Eves income.. Power is not something that is granted - it is something to be taken.
Demure Guise	Posted - 2011.06.28 13:00:00 - [68] Edited by: Demure Guise on 28/06/2011 13:02:37 Originally by: Abyssal Void Originally by: Demure Guise Originally by: Abyssal Void Edit: Didnt see last one before posting this. Maybe you could explain the game breaking advantages being sold in that store. I seem to have missed them. That isn't the issue either - because, as we all know, as yet there aren't any yet. YET being the operative word. A VERY quick precis for you, since threads explaining the ACTUAL gripes are widely available anyway. Fade to 24/6/2010 and CCP Shadow in the 'SP Microtransaction Megathread': "Our business model isn't changing. You have nothing to be concerned about." Then, "No. There are no microtransaction plans, whatsoever." Then, "We do not have plans to go microtransaction with Eve." (his bold and underlining, not mine.) Fade to today. CCP need cash, bad. They're overextended. Result: vanity items, which rational people think are hilarious but harmless. Via the very Microtransactions they apparently had no intentions of introducing. Wait. What? We're getting similar sentiments expressed about non-vanity items. Remembering the above chain of events, we asked EXACTLY what WERE they going to be doing about non-vanity items. A simple, unequivocal answer that eliminated any chance of misinterpretation. Two blogs of CCP WaffleSpeak later and still nobody knows where they stand. Did they mean "No Gold Ammo" to mean ALL non-vanity microtransactions, or just "Ammo even better than Faction Ammo"? Your guess is as good as ours, as they are seemingly incapable of a straight-up, incontrovertible yes or no answer. As the saying goes "Fool us once, shame on you. Fool us twice, shame on us." So they said at some point they did not have a plan to do something. Then at a latter time they made a plan and did it. You make it sound like they lied. So you are saying that it is a sure thing that they will do something they have said they will NOT do. I heard CCPSoundwave say it quite clearly in a video blog. Hahahaha, yeah... they "say" all kinds of things, as I think we have already established to our dissatisfaction. Stress your brain and think back a few lines of text - do you remember me describing CCP Shadow saying things like "no plans...", in writing, three times in one thread? That worked out real well, didn't it. Do you have a short attention span or something. If so, re-read the post.
Mocam	Posted - 2011.06.28 13:01:00 - [69] What they use surplus revenue for, I really couldn't give a **. When it's "milk the cow" and that's my wallet and others I game with - I tend to get a bit **ed about the topic. If it ever was a choice between the 2 - MT or subscription - hands down, subscription going up would work for me but it's not a choice. We have no say in this. They will not listen. Vanity doesn't sell as well as functional. That is why they won't say it's only vanity. They WILL put in functional and all those who "cannot afford a higher subscription" will find themselves second-class citizens in a MT based game that sells "convenience" - everything in EVE is about convenience. It's a game - just one that's going over to "wallets for the win".
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.28 13:02:00 - [70] Originally by: Whitehound You have an opinion on what needs to be done? I thought this is a protest about what the players want, not on what everyone should be doing. I am beginning to think that I am just feeding a troll again ... Wow, hey, let's keep splitting hairs and argue semantics until the sun blinks out, shall we ? I think not. Quote: Quote: And I'm the douche here ? Yes. And why should I concern myself on viewpoints that are not yours? Who said they're not mine ? Quote: Quote: I gave you a logical series of easily provable facts and inferences detailing the situation when viewed from two different viewpoints. I did not ask for it. Then why are you even talking if you're not interested in a logic-based conversation ? Go home, Glen Beck. Quote: Quote: My brain can handle more than one viewpoint, in fact, it can handle quite a lot of different viewpoints. Can it handle all viewpoints? Mine can. I take a step back, move into a new dimension and look at the problem as a whole. You have quite conclusively proven that you are incapable of doing that. But let's give you yet again the benefit of the doubt. Quote: Quote: I don't know, WHY NOT let us buy real things with ISK ? CONVENIENTLY EDITED OUT PART: Oh, wait, because then CCP loses money, that's why. And last time I checked, if they go under, EVE goes under, and the whole freaking argument about the moral virtues of not allowing microtransactions is not worth the paper it's not printed on. Yes! Let us forget about making games and let us put an Apple Store into Jita. Instead of playing just a game can we now shoot each other over the new iPhone. And let us invent toilets with ice cream machines, so one can go onto a toilet and eat ice cream at the same time. Do you not love eating ice cream when you are on the toilet? It is so much better to spend time on the toilet when you can eat ice cream, too. YOU ARE GOD DAMN STUPID, Akita Troll. And you have no life. Get one. Holy mother of out of context quoting, Batman ! That thing about the benefit of the doubt ? Forget about it. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts

SiIver Twin	Posted - 2011.06.28 13:02:00 - [71] A marginal increase in monthly subscription wouldn't be that big an issue... may push up the price of plex a little. But it won't be deleting them from the game.
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.28 13:03:00 - [72] Edited by: Whitehound on 28/06/2011 13:05:43 Originally by: Akita T Originally by: El'Niaga I don't think you understand. ... No, I think YOU don't understand ... NO, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND. See what I did? Akita? You there? You listening? Yes? ... STFU, nerd. Seriously, you are a terrible whiner. --
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.28 13:07:00 - [73] Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: Akita T Originally by: El'Niaga I don't think you understand. ... No, I think YOU don't understand ... NO, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND. See what I did? Yes, I see what you did there. You stopped even trying, that's what you did. You left in the preamble, cut out the meat of both posts, and thus made it look like we are going at eachother's throats as opposed to merely correcting some slight inaccurate assumptions that would change the framing and clarify the whole issue. Damn, I got that nickname right the first time it seems, mister Glenn Beck ! _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
El'Niaga Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2011.06.28 13:07:00 - [74] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: El'Niaga Originally by: Akita T Originally by: El'Niaga They probably need to shelve WoD for the time being so that they can complete DUST 514 and maintain EVE. Thus stabilizing their spending to revenue stream. Yes I realize it means some people at CCP will have to be let go that's unavoidable. Either a few must be sacrificed for the many or they may all be lost. Oh, hey, what an interesting concept... so you'd rather like to see quite a few people lose their jobs than ever see microtransactions in a game you play that WOULD allow you access to all the MT-based content without ever spending a dime ? Well, I know who I would sacrifice instead of my employees - namely, I would sacrifice those subscribers that just can't live with the idea of playing a game which has some limited form of microtransactions (especially since they were already playing the game for ages with microtransactions included, but only as far as sub payment tokens went). I don't think you understand. They can't make enough off the NEX store to make up the revenue gap. Not at the relative small showing of items and high prices. If they'd released 100 1 dollar items that were destroyed when your pod killed they could easily have sold three or four times the monetary value than they have with 30 dollar pants and 70 dollar monocles. It is a flawed roll out and philosophy really. Which emanated from the top levels of the company. They can still turn it around, but honestly they need to streamline their development processes and get rid of unneeded or unproductive staff. No, I think YOU don't understand what they have the opportunity to do. Maybe they won't do it like I describe below, and THAT would be a wasted opportunity. What makes you think this very slim selection of uber-expensive items is the only round of items, and the only price tier of items that will be introduced ? They stuck most of the most expensive ones in first to establish a "price anchor". When the new items come in at half the price (with the old ones remaining where they are), many more will buy them compared to how many would have bought them if they would have been introduced from the start. They might introduce a few more items at price levels similar to the old ones, or even one item that's even more expensive, so that you don't feel like waiting it out will certainly make you get stuff cheaper soon, which should also boost sales. But I will agree with you on one thing completely - the fact they backpedaled at the last minute on their "clothes on you are destructible" decision was kind of counter-productive. Looking at their financial statement and then what they sold over the weekend according to the leak mails. There is no way anyone could project sufficient revenue from it to meet the gap by their timeline of October.
Hakaru Ishiwara Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2011.06.28 13:09:00 - [75] Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 28/06/2011 13:05:43 Originally by: Akita T Originally by: El'Niaga I don't think you understand. ... No, I think YOU don't understand ... NO, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND. See what I did? Akita? You there? You listening? Yes? ... STFU, nerd. Seriously, you are a terrible whiner. CCP Alt or hired gun [Whitehound] spotted via obnoxious posting and callous treatment of EVE subscribers.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.28 13:10:00 - [76] Originally by: El'Niaga Looking at their financial statement and then what they sold over the weekend according to the leak mails. There is no way anyone could project sufficient revenue from it to meet the gap by their timeline of October. They don't need to actually get that revenue by then. They only need to prove an upwards swing in revenue to justify a refinancing of the debt at an affordable interest level. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.28 13:19:00 - [77] Edited by: Whitehound on 28/06/2011 13:19:20 Originally by: Akita T Yes, I see what you did there. You stopped even trying, that's what you did. No, wrong. This is what you assume based on your reflection of your own attitude or you are just throwing guesses around. Your head really just keeps spinning the same old crappy thoughts around, round and round again. What you call "meat" is just turd spinning in a toilet bowl and I am out of that age where I play "spin the turd". You want to buy real goods for ISKs? Then start a thread on it and see what responses you get. Do it! --
Fractal Muse	Posted - 2011.06.28 13:19:00 - [78] Originally by: Whitehound NO, YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND. See what I did? Akita? You there? You listening? Yes? ... STFU, nerd. Seriously, you are a terrible whiner. Whitehound, as a moderately interested third party I can express my view of your conversation with Akita T. You are the one who is coming across as, essentially, everything you are trying to claim Akita T is. If you choose to 'protest' then do so. But, do not expect to be taken for a martyr or some sort of inspirational figure to everyone else especially when you post the way that you are. I understand that pointing this out to you, personally, will likely do nothing in regards to your own views in a positive manner but I do so in that vain hope that it may.
Commander IceQ Caldari Spit and Ductape Maintenance Trade Wind Commodities	Posted - 2011.06.28 13:20:00 - [79] Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: Commander IceQ Anyway fly safe... or whatever it is that the unsubed people do. We are protesting and you do not have to thank us for it. Keep playing your game. Why thank you. Originally by: Whitehound We will make sure that you can enjoy doing so in the future and that your game time stays enjoyable and does not get ruined by a creeping featurism and a stagnation of game content. Too late for that. Last Good games that was released was Quake 1, WarCraft 2, StartCraft, Diablo 2 and Wing Commander 4. Everything after that suffers from creeping featurism and stagnation. This reminds me of another expansion... oh yeah Cataclysm. Their forums where also aflame with "this expansion will ruin the game" and the "MT items will ruin the game" (the MT store includes 2 mounts which is usable and not just vanity), and from what I have seen so far WoW is still going strong AND Blizzard is developing SC2:Ep2 AND Diablo3. My Point? Well simply put, I don't have one. Yeah I know EVE and WoW are different, but it seems the communities are the same. :P Yes, I have a WoW account. /pointless rant My Signature is too large... O_o
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.28 13:21:00 - [80] Edited by: Whitehound on 28/06/2011 13:23:18 Originally by: Fractal Muse ... STFU. I do not want to read your opinion about me on the forums. Stay on the topic. --

El'Niaga Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2011.06.28 13:21:00 - [81] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: El'Niaga Looking at their financial statement and then what they sold over the weekend according to the leak mails. There is no way anyone could project sufficient revenue from it to meet the gap by their timeline of October. They don't need to actually get that revenue by then. They only need to prove an upwards swing in revenue to justify a refinancing of the debt at an affordable interest level. You can't do that when you lose 5% of subscriptions and I'd say they are past that that's why the emergency CSM meeting. Basically they've almost shot themselves in the foot for the last week with their actions, they can still right the ship but CCP will be a leaner company coming out of it to survive I believe.
Miss Rabblt	Posted - 2011.06.28 13:22:00 - [82] i only see people in this forum is trying to destroy Eve yet
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.28 13:23:00 - [83] Originally by: Whitehound You want to buy real goods for ISKs? Then start a thread on it and see what responses you get. Do it! Are you really so incapable of comprehending written text in English that you really believe I said I want to buy real goods with ISK ? Is English your primary language ? Do you have some kind of disability that makes you unable to comprehend sarcasm ? Do you need to have the point explained using a different wording you might be more capable of understanding ? I'm just tying to be helpful here, no offense meant... _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.28 13:26:00 - [84] Edited by: Whitehound on 28/06/2011 13:27:26 Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Whitehound You want to buy real goods for ISKs? Then start a thread on it and see what responses you get. Do it! Are you really so incapable of comprehending written text in English that you really believe I said I want to buy real goods with ISK ? It is what you wrote. Do you want to dodge out? [] Yes. [] No. Originally by: Akita T I don't know, WHY NOT let us buy real things with ISK ? --
Miss Rabblt	Posted - 2011.06.28 13:30:00 - [85] Originally by: Whitehound Nobody wants to play a game where some kid can walk into with extra cash in the pocket and can just shoot anyone in the face hm? 1) make new char -> train for 1-2 days -> fit smartbombs destroyer -> go to asteroid belt -> kill hulks and have fun -> biomass char -> repeat from start 2) make new alt -> train for 1-2 days -> fit alphastrike ship -> go to the Jita -> suicide someones Iteron and have fun -> biomass char -> repeat We already have kids who ever don't need extra cash to shoot anyone in face.... Well. almost anyone
Karii Ildarian Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2011.06.28 13:30:00 - [86] Originally by: El'Niaga Originally by: Akita T Originally by: El'Niaga Looking at their financial statement and then what they sold over the weekend according to the leak mails. There is no way anyone could project sufficient revenue from it to meet the gap by their timeline of October. They don't need to actually get that revenue by then. They only need to prove an upwards swing in revenue to justify a refinancing of the debt at an affordable interest level. You can't do that when you lose 5% of subscriptions and I'd say they are past that that's why the emergency CSM meeting. Basically they've almost shot themselves in the foot for the last week with their actions, they can still right the ship but CCP will be a leaner company coming out of it to survive I believe. I think those internal leaks and their subsequent poor handling of them may have put a slight crimp in their plans, but do not doubt that, as soon as the stations are opened for interaction between players, CCP will clean up on vanity items.
Velios M. Corp -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2011.06.28 13:30:00 - [87] NO I DONT SEE WHY I SHOULD PAY EXTRA MONEY TO PLAY EVE IF IT'S JUST BEING USED TO HELP CCP DEVELOP OTHER GAMES I HAVE NO INTEREST IN Other games CCP intend to make should have their own investment and business models that don't leech from EVE's income stream.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.28 13:31:00 - [88] Originally by: Whitehound It is what you wrote. Do you want to dodge out? [] Yes. [] No. Originally by: Akita T I don't know, WHY NOT let us buy real things with ISK ? Dodge out of what ? Out of a hypothetical sarcastic question I answered in the very next sentence (answer which you edited out, twice now) ? _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.28 13:36:00 - [89] Originally by: Miss Rabblt 1) make new char -> train for 1-2 days -> fit smartbombs destroyer -> go to asteroid belt -> kill hulks and have fun -> biomass char -> repeat from start 2) make new alt -> train for 1-2 days -> fit alphastrike ship -> go to the Jita -> suicide someones Iteron and have fun -> biomass char -> repeat We already have kids who ever don't need extra cash to shoot anyone in face.... Well. almost anyone Biomassing chars in such a way is an exploit and can you get banned. Do not think people have not tried yet. They actually used the Buddy Program to do this, too. --
Cataca	Posted - 2011.06.28 13:38:00 - [90] Originally by: El'Niaga Looking at their financial statement and then what they sold over the weekend according to the leak mails. There is no way anyone could project sufficient revenue from it to meet the gap by their timeline of October. They only need to prove that their revenue rises sufficiently till october to get new investors imho. Tho, that is theorycrafting, noone can tell for sure but them.

Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.28 13:44:00 - [91] Originally by: Akita T Dodge out of what ? Dodging out of responsibility for what you write. If you just keep writing nonsense without taking responsibility over what you write then no one will take you serious. I do understand what you want, it is just that you need to realize it for yourself first or there will not be a gain. You want people to take your arguments serious, right? Then you need to stop dodging other people's arguments. So, why would you want to buy real items for ISKs? Or why would you not want to buy them? --
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.28 14:27:00 - [92] Edited by: Akita T on 28/06/2011 14:38:07 Again, dodge out of what ? Out of a hypothetical sarcastic question I answered in the very next sentence (this being the THIRD time you attempt to make it look like I hadn't) ? Originally by: Whitehound So, why would you want to buy real items for ISKs? Or why would you not want to buy them? Why would I want to be able to buy them ? Because I have too much ISK and nothing else interesting to do with it at the moment, while in RL I could stand to make some upgrades to my spending habits. Why would I not want to be able to buy them ? Because it would seriously frak up CCP's bottom line if it would be possible, and I don't want that to happen. Maybe you actually wanted to ask me "Would you buy real items for ISK if given the chance, yes or no?" In case CCP would be suicidal enough to actually allow us to do that with absolutely no repercussions while being completely up-front with what we are doing (basically, legalizing RMT cash-outs), yes, I totally would buy some. In case CCP keeps its current stance and such a transaction would be punishable as usual, I would under no circumstances even try. Yes, this totally DOES mean I am putting MY personal financial interest both above that of the rest of the community and above CCP's, but CCP's financial interest above that of the community. It's only natural to do so. Got any more bright ideas or trick questions or desperate out-of-context quoting ? _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.28 14:48:00 - [93] Edited by: Whitehound on 28/06/2011 14:55:41 Originally by: Akita T Again, dodge out of what ? Do not ask me to repeat it. Read it again if you must. Quote: Out of a hypothetical sarcastic question I answered in the very next sentence (this being the THIRD time you attempt to make it look like I hadn't) ? You are asking me? I think you and I know that you did not answer it. Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Whitehound So, why would you want to buy real items for ISKs? Or why would you not want to buy them? Why would I want to be able to buy them ? It is not about you. Use your logic as you always do and explain why it is good or bad. I give you an example. CCP could sell rights to Apple to open an AppleStore at Jita. Players could buy things at the Jita AppleStore with Aurum after they have converted it from PLEX and ISKs. In a next step could CCP just forward the bill and take it right of your credit card since they already got this information (should you be a subscriber who pays by card). There will be players who would actually like to have such a shop in each space station. There could be Microsoft, Gucci, BMW, you name it. So, there we have demand and offer, a new idea, and it can be combined with PLEX/Aurum. Now, please, explain why this is good or bad.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.28 15:09:00 - [94] Edited by: Akita T on 28/06/2011 15:14:18 Originally by: Whitehound It is not about you. Use your logic as you always do and explain why it is good or bad. I just have. Do you have a vision problem ? Or is your computer eating away text before you can read it ? Quote: I give you an example. CCP could sell rights to Apple to open an AppleStore at Jita. Players could buy things at the Jita AppleStore with Aurum after they have converted it to PLEX. In a next step could CCP just forward the bill and take it right of your credit card since they already got this information (should you be a subscriber who pays by card). There will be players who would actually like to have such a shop in each space station. There could be Microsoft, Gucci, BMW, you name it. So, there we have demand and offer, a new idea, and it can be combined with PLEX/Aurum. So, please, explain why this is good or bad. First off, such a "partnership" would completely destroy whatever immersion they worked so hard to get by pushing Incarna as fast as possible. That alone would be reason enough to discount it completely. But let's say (just for the sake of argument) that they could find some such partnerships in which they could integrate a new sub-line of products fashioned to be "non-Incarna-immersion-breaking". Forwarding the bill would be bordering on the pointless. There would be no point in doing that unless they got a good commission out of it, and that is highly unlikely from a company that already bent over backwards to accommodate them with a whole new line of products that fit into the Incarna design. But, again, just for the sake of argument, let's say that they miraculously DO manage to draft a deal in which they DO get a juicy commission even out of this. There's still no point in going through all that trouble JUST to basically "sell off" their zero-interest-loans received from players (in the form of PLEX stockpiles) at a big discount to the company providing whatever products they "sell through". It would make just as much sense to simply allow people "buybacks" at reduced rate (something like, say, sell CCP a PLEX, get 8 USD back, compared to the 17.5 USD a PLEX costs to buy in the first place), since it would be far, far less trouble and most likely retain more cash that way. And even better for them (from a financial standpoint) would be to just not allow any form of "cashing out" whatsoever, under any circumstances. Which would most likely be the best thing also from a legal standpoint, since allowing cashing out of any form could be interpretable as allowing gambling or whatnot, and risk getting banned in certain areas (or forced to expensively comply at a cost that would not be financially worth it). So, they're already doing the best thing they can actually do regarding this particular idea of allowing cash-outs (namely, ignore it). _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
jackaloped	Posted - 2011.06.28 15:16:00 - [95] Originally by: Holy One Originally by: Tobiaz I'm not paying more subscription just so CCP can develop WoD.
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.28 15:36:00 - [96] Edited by: Whitehound on 28/06/2011 15:38:30 Originally by: Akita T First off, such a "partnership" would completely destroy whatever immersion they worked so hard to get by pushing Incarna as fast as possible. So you are saying that buying items for real money, if real or virtual items, destroys EVE's immersion. Originally by: Akita T Forwarding the bill would be bordering on the pointless. There would be no point in doing that unless they got a good commission out of it, and ... Some people like to buy their iPod in a Hotel shop and are willing to pay extra for the convenience it gives them. I am sure that where there is a demand one can make a profit, and one can always argue on the success until the success sets in. --
DeMichael Crimson Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2011.06.28 15:46:00 - [97] Well, it's almost to see all the threads being posted when actually it's just . As for the subscription price being raised, ask Captain Picard.
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.28 15:58:00 - [98] Originally by: DeMichael Crimson Well, it's almost to see all the threads being posted when actually it's just . For you it is , but for CCP it is . --
Viking Sven	Posted - 2011.06.28 15:59:00 - [99] Originally by: Tobiaz I'm not paying more subscription just so CCP can develop WoD. +1. They already took most of the development out of Eve, while we still pay the same sub fee. Why the hell should we pay more? CCP needs to unf*ck themselves before touching the sub fee.
BoBoZoBo The Wyld Hunt Cascade Imminent	Posted - 2011.06.28 16:09:00 - [100] IMHO No - making the game more expensive WOULD ruin it. Its not simply lack of income ruining the game.... its lack of strategy compiled with expanded (mis)management leading to a lack of efficient use of current income leading to panic In the end though, If people want to subsidize the game buy buying $60 digital vanity accessories - then f@cking let them. As long as it does not affect advantages in gameplay, who cares. CCP better just manage it correctly because even more money wont save them if they cannot, just take a look at the US economy. ========================= Minister of Propaganda - Operator 9

Imnothuman Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.06.28 16:20:00 - [101] high sub price = less players = less blobs = im in bring back real fighting no more 600man wr fleets
VaMei	Posted - 2011.06.28 16:53:00 - [102] Originally by: Akita T Quote: Nobody wants to play a game where some kid can walk into with extra cash in the pocket and can just shoot anyone in the face, or just walk around in better clothing than others. From a certain viewpoint, this is already happening. Sell PLEX for ISK, buy the best gear most others can't afford. You can sidestep the issue as much as you like, but fact remains, right now, and since many years ago, you CAN "pay to win" already. For my part I hated what Plex (and isk for GTC) did to the game. It was billed as a way to fight RMT. All it did was to legitimize it. I hated what character trades did to the game. It was billed as a way to fight Ebay character farming. All it did was to legitimize it. Eve started as a sandbox game where time, effort, specialization, & connections were rewarded with success while impatience & independence could only lead to failure. Now, the game has evolved into a pay-to-win environment where you can buy anything from ships to skills to friends (aka alts) with either isk or $$$. What's changed recently for me is seeing that CCP not only doesn't see it as a problem that's hurting the game, but they are happy with where things have gone and see it as a business model to expand on. Add in having CCP's historically limited attention span divided across multiple games, and I simply don't see a future here for me.
Solstice Project	Posted - 2011.06.28 16:54:00 - [103] Originally by: Mr Epeen Originally by: Tobiaz I'm not paying more subscription just so CCP can develop WoD. You are not paying any subscription. Period. You quit. So stop offering your opinion. It's about as relevant as my cats. When you resub, you may offer an opinion again. For now, you can simply STFU. Mr Epeen I believe your cats are relevant, because else you wouldn't have them. He's less relevant than your cats.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.28 16:55:00 - [104] Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: Akita T First off, such a "partnership" would completely destroy whatever immersion they worked so hard to get by pushing Incarna as fast as possible. So you are saying that buying items for real money, if real or virtual items, destroys EVE's immersion. No. Seeing a BMW or Apple or Microsoft or Gucci logo all of a sudden in a game where for 8 years they were completely absent, a game that's set "after the fall" and subsequent rebuild from scratch, with not even the original Earth languages remaining, let alone the memory of such companies ever existing, THAT would destroy immersion. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Solstice Project	Posted - 2011.06.28 17:00:00 - [105] Akita's right. On the other hand, what about player owned shops ? I'd love to sell some pictures online, via EvE. Why not ?
Maverick2011 Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.28 17:01:00 - [106] EVE isn't worth 0.01 more. Its their fail if they decided to develop 2 games at once solely on a game with 300k subscriber where most are second and third accounts and not real players. Their lack of knowledge of this simple economics 101 (dont spend more than you have) is there problem to deal with. Idk why players who are supporting this since 2003 and are THEIR FRICCKING BOSSES are so desperate trying to save EVE as if it was their mother. CCP gives a damn about every one here. So respect yourself and pay for a service they provide, not for a virtual ideal of happiness. EVE isnt worth 0.01 cent more from a subscripition fee to a MT point of view. And if they push towards this they will crash the game as it wont hold their playerbase against new competitors coming up soon with fresh content (Guild Wars2, StarWars KOTOR and Diablo 3).
Solstice Project	Posted - 2011.06.28 17:03:00 - [107] Originally by: Maverick2011 EVE isn't worth 0.01 more. Its their fail if they decided to develop 2 games at once solely on a game with 300k subscriber where most are second and third accounts and not real players. Their lack of knowledge of this simple economics 101 (dont spend more than you have) is there problem to deal with. Idk why players who are supporting this since 2003 and are THEIR FRICCKING BOSSES are so desperate trying to save EVE as if it was their mother. CCP gives a damn about every one here. So respect yourself and pay for a service they provide, not for a virtual ideal of happiness. EVE isnt worth 0.01 cent more from a subscripition fee to a MT point of view. And if they push towards this they will crash the game as it wont hold their playerbase against new competitors coming up soon with fresh content (Guild Wars2, StarWars KOTOR and Diablo 3). Makes me wonder why people who share your oppinion are still around ... (yes, it's only an oppinion) As if it was a necessity .... shakeshead
Maplestone	Posted - 2011.06.28 17:08:00 - [108] Originally by: Haramir Haleths Discuss or just flame ... 1. Denial 2. Anger 3. Bargaining 4. Depression 5. Acceptance
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.28 17:09:00 - [109] Edited by: Whitehound on 28/06/2011 17:10:51 Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: Akita T First off, such a "partnership" would completely destroy whatever immersion they worked so hard to get by pushing Incarna as fast as possible. So you are saying that buying items for real money, if real or virtual items, destroys EVE's immersion. No. Seeing a BMW or Apple or Microsoft or Gucci logo ... Yes you do. You would like to talk about something else? Ok. Let us talk about company logos. You could sell an iPhone with an EVE faction logo on it and tell a story on how Apple managed to establish a store in the EVE universe. People love a good story, especially with an happy ending. Or, if you are bad at story telling, you could rebrand it as a the Quafe iPhone. --
Viking Sven	Posted - 2011.06.28 17:10:00 - [110] Originally by: Maplestone 1. Denial 2. Anger 3. Bargaining 4. Depression 5. Acceptance This made me lol

Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2011.06.28 17:11:00 - [111] Originally by: Haramir Haleths Hi, so we all knows CCP need more money for Dracula Online and Dust. Now they want produce more revenue due to selling us stuff in EvE and destroying game mechanics and economy. What do you thing about the idea to get more revenue by increasing the monthly fee a little bit. Maybe 2 Euro up per month instead of of selling game breaking crap. Discuss or just flame ... How about CCP spend less on those other projects if they can't afford to burn through their cash at the current rate? Why should I further subsidise Dust or WoD, neither of which I am likely to play? Am I likely to get a reduction in subs later if either of them is a big success? I doubt it! Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Theodemir Amarr	Posted - 2011.06.28 17:12:00 - [112] Originally by: Maplestone Originally by: Haramir Haleths Discuss or just flame ... 1. Denial 2. Anger 3. Bargaining 4. Depression 5. Acceptance lmao! Nice post. Why should we pay more?! The sub is more than double most other MMO's out there. Sigh.
Shigeru Potatomoto	Posted - 2011.06.28 17:18:00 - [113] $15 a month is kind of the unofficial price ceiling for MMO subs. If CCP increased the price, they'd have to increase it for PLEX too would just **** off everyone else who's not already raging over AUR which doesn't even affect them yet but it might someday down the road. Besides, who's gonna play an MMO where every other character is named Edward?
Yann Xonogoth Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.06.28 17:23:00 - [114] As we speak now, how many player are buying Plex online, and selling them in the market for billions of ISK? Some players are rich, I mean IRL rich, or at least can afford to throw 100 or 200Ç a month in games. If they put such a sum in Plex, you can imagine their ISK wallet... What kind of impact can that money has on EVE's inner economy? An inflation of the prices? My personnal opnion: allowing monocles buying was one thing, but indirectly allowing ISK buying was a very bad step. Or maybe you can prove me wrong? - Yann Xonogoth
Swynet State War Academy	Posted - 2011.06.28 17:27:00 - [115] Originally by: Haramir Haleths Hi, so we all knows CCP need more money for Dracula Online and Dust. Now they want produce more revenue due to selling us stuff in EvE and destroying game mechanics and economy. What do you thing about the idea to get more revenue by increasing the monthly fee a little bit. Maybe 2 Euro up per month instead of of selling game breaking crap. Discuss or just flame ... No we don't know. If you do post official thread link? You are making speculations from **** threads of nerds like you that can't keep the hole serving for mouth closed. You're just raging and spiting all your poison for little no brains birdies. Can't understand why Liang was banned when tons of scum like you can create many new threads with false statements and not get the banhammer. If CCP is doing something bad these days this is all about, let brainless scum running their mouth all day long without closing their beak.
Anne Arqui Minmatar Diamonds in the Rough Enterprises	Posted - 2011.06.28 17:33:00 - [116] They could sell White Wolf to EA or Sony?
Krist Alana	Posted - 2011.06.28 17:40:00 - [117] Why should we have to pay more? They are taking on more than they can handle with developing 2 new games. They should scrap either Dust or WoD. (Dust imo)
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.28 17:46:00 - [118] Originally by: Yann Xonogoth My personnal opnion: allowing monocles buying was one thing, but indirectly allowing ISK buying was a very bad step. Or maybe you can prove me wrong? It is both bad. In both cases do players open their (real) wallet to buy something that only has a use within a game. If it was poker for real money then it makes sense to throw real money into it. If it was poker with fake money and you would buy the fake money with real money would people laugh until they pee into their pants. In EVE do people buy ISKs for real money. (Sad, but true.) It has been like this since the beginning of the goldsellers. I have been writing it many times now, but I will not stop writing it: PLEX was a compromise to keep goldsellers at arm's length while at the same time it increased the community through a play-for-free model. This is not theory, there is no need to argue about it, but it is how it is. Anything you build on it is bound to go bad. It does not matter if you only sell virtual goods or if you introduce a currency system similar to that of casino chips, where you can turn the fake money back into real money. It is a bridge into the real world and it does not matter if it is one-way only. What matters is that players will never see Aurum as a virtual currency similar to ISK, but just as a weak substitute for $$$. --
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.28 17:48:00 - [119] Edited by: Akita T on 28/06/2011 17:48:54 Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: Akita T First off, such a "partnership" would completely destroy whatever immersion they worked so hard to get by pushing Incarna as fast as possible. So you are saying that buying items for real money, if real or virtual items, destroys EVE's immersion. No. Seeing a BMW or Apple or Microsoft or Gucci logo all of a sudden in a game where for 8 years they were completely absent, a game that's set "after the fall" and subsequent rebuild from scratch, with not even the original Earth languages remaining, let alone the memory of such companies ever existing, THAT would destroy immersion. Yes you do. /facepalm Quote: You would like to talk about something else? Ok. Let us talk about company logos. You could sell an iPhone with an EVE faction logo on it and tell a story on how Apple managed to establish a store in the EVE universe. People love a good story, especially with an happy ending. Or, if you are bad at story telling, you could rebrand it as a the Quafe iPhone. /doublefacepalm _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Viking Sven	Posted - 2011.06.28 17:49:00 - [120] Originally by: Yann Xonogoth As we speak now, how many player are buying Plex online, and selling them in the market for billions of ISK? Some players are rich, I mean IRL rich You're looking at a very narrow picture. First off, the conversion of IRL $$$ to Plex doesn't give a major payoff in isk... it's actually quite IRL expensive to "succeed" that way in eve. Sure, some people might be able to swing it, but most can't in a game where **** gets blown up all the time. The other issue for those that CAN afford large amounts of isk is supply and demand. There are X many accounts in eve that rely on 1 plex every month to keep playing, which basically means Eve only really requires X many plex per month to sustain all the players that don't sub. If you buy more plex than subscribers need, there will be a massive supply and the same demand of X. Prices of plex plummet, people get much less isk per plex. People stop buying plex as a result. If nobody buys plex at all, and the same X demand remains... prices skyrocket on plex, so people start buying plex again with IRL money. This is why it's not truly RMT, it's very much economy dependent. If anyone states that plex=rmt again, Ima punch them in their groin.

Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.28 17:54:00 - [121] Edited by: Whitehound on 28/06/2011 17:55:29 Originally by: Akita T /facepalm /doublefacepalm Take your time to form a proper response. One containing logical arguments, which you are always so keen on presenting to the forum. --
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.28 17:55:00 - [122] Edited by: Akita T on 28/06/2011 17:56:49 Originally by: Whitehound Take your time to form a proper response. No need. You'll just chop down 95% of the letters in it and form whatever words you like from it. Quote: One containing logical arguments, which you are always so keen on presenting to the forum. Which you can continue ignoring, as usual... _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Riley Moore Sentinum Research	Posted - 2011.06.28 17:55:00 - [123] Higher fee for lower quality? No thanks! I'll pay more the day we get weekly balance/improvements updates(patches, not text). - Hybrid Weapon System fix - Galente ship speed/armor fix - Supercap fix - UI improvements, especially S&I multi job support - AF fix - iterate on Sov - iterate on PI - iterate on faction warefare - iterate on bounty system - iterate on dynamic S&I public jobs (price/availability?) - new ships, modules (not for MT!) etc --- Sentinum Research Store
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.28 17:57:00 - [124] Edited by: Whitehound on 28/06/2011 17:59:18 Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Whitehound Take your time to form a proper response. No need. You'll just chop down 95% of the letters in it and form whatever words you like from it. Why is this wrong? Do you mean that I should I write what you like? Originally by: Akita T Which you can continue ignoring, as usual... Oh, I am not ignoring them. I do read them. --
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.28 17:58:00 - [125] Originally by: Whitehound I am a giant douche. I can't argue against that. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.06.28 17:58:00 - [126] The current plex system is not the same as MT pay to win. While one can make a decent argument that it is similar it is still not the same. When a plex is sold to someone that isk had to be generated via in game mechanics of someone at some point going out and killing rats or running missions. That took time and said isk probably changed hands several times before landing in the wallet of the person who bought the GTC then finally going into the wallet of the GTC seller. Now lets go to the furthest extreme here someoen spends enough rl cash to buy sufficient plex to purchase a well skilled cap pilot and a supercap to put them in. In that case not only did countless players have to spend massive amounts of game time ammasing the isk involved for such a purchase other players had to spend massive amounts of time mining the ores to process into the minerals. Someone had to spend the time training the character to run the CSAA someone had to spend the time hauling all the materials out to the build site time had to be spent on the assembly that CSAA had to be defended the POS fueled. Ton's of actual player activity to make that happen. For the character to exist someone had to pay for the account buy all the skill books plan out the skill plan then spend 2-3 years real time training the character up. Additionally the purchaser is stuck with what ever name the seller picked. You also have to find one that fits your criteria and likely settle for something that isn't exactly what you'd like where as if you just purchased skillpoints you could make the exact character you want with the exact skills you desire no compormises required. How one can not see a massive difference between this and Buy plex trade for aura buy character and ship from NEX store just boggles the mind. Honestly I don't see the NeX going away that's not my expectation I'm just hoping that CCP can at this point be convinced that anything and I mean anything beyond purely cosmetic items is simply unacceptable. Unfortunately the communications we've seen from CCP indicate that they don't get it. That they don't understand the danger of the greased glass cliff they are standing on the edge of. And it is a greased glass cliff it ain't no slippery slope not when they're already brainstorming ways to step off the precipice. How far of a step is it from adding items and services to "enhance" the player experience to intentionally removing basic functionality in order to encourage the repurchase of said functionality as an "enhancement"? We've already seen one example mentioned that being the ship fitting limitation. For months CCP has ignored repeated requests for explanation of the 50 fit limit we were given something we never asked for a nerf that was advertised as a buff. Then we get the fearless document where they talk about that very situation as an opportunity for additional revenue. Showing that yes they had seen our complaints and rather than trying to address them they figured they'd sell us a fix. What's next aurum based enhancement to Hybrid Users that will fix your hybrid if you pay the $$$? Aurum based old style hanger view? Aurum based pre-nerf jump bridges? Where does it stop? where does it end? That's the problem here. Now that they've stepped up to the edge the threat will be ever present. Akita paints a nice rosy picture based on a level of trust and confidence that I just don't see as justified. The leaked documents combined with the COO's recent statements simply reinforce the fact that going down the golden ammo path isn't just a potential threat but their actual intention.
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.28 18:02:00 - [127] Edited by: Whitehound on 28/06/2011 18:04:18 Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Whitehound I am a giant douche. I can't argue against that. Try arguing for it. Explain logically, and by putting "meat" into your comments, how I am a douche. --
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.28 18:04:00 - [128] Originally by: Whitehound I am still feeling sore from the last time we verbally sparred, so I'm being intentionally dense all over again. I told you to use more lube. But you didn't listen back then, you're not listening now. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Ronja Mistysdottir The Treehugger Corp	Posted - 2011.06.28 18:07:00 - [129] maybe make the game so it is playable without 4-6 accounts?
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.28 18:07:00 - [130] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Whitehound I am still feeling sore from the last time we verbally sparred, so I'm being intentionally dense all over again. I told you to use more lube. But you didn't listen back then, you're not listening now. You were wrong back then and did not learn, and from what I can see here are you not going to learn anything either. But seriously, if you think that I am douche then you should be able to logically explain it. --

Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.28 18:24:00 - [131] Originally by: Whitehound Please, do give more example of just how much posterior pain I'm in over previous verbal disputes and how nicely can I hold a grudge. Why, sure, why not, much obliged, if you asked so nicely... I'll use them googles and pull up a few really fast ! In here you were just rude . I wasn't very polite here, I agree. I should have realized ever since back then that you can't comprehend sarcasm. I know somebody in RL with the exact same problem. Nah, must be something else... Waaait a second here, is this all about T2 BPOs and lashing out ? Grudges, grudges, grudges... Oh, wait, it's not just me who annoys you, apparently Chribba pushes your buttons too. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Calden De'Altos	Posted - 2011.06.28 18:43:00 - [132] Edited by: Calden De''Altos on 28/06/2011 18:43:56 Originally by: Akita T From a certain viewpoint, this is already happening. Sell PLEX for ISK, buy the best gear most others can't afford. You can sidestep the issue as much as you like, but fact remains, right now, and since many years ago, you CAN "pay to win" already. From the opposite viewpoint, this will never happen. Since all the items and services can be purchased INDIRECTLY with ISK (while somebody ELSE foots the cash bill for the PLEX), and the items themselves (once in the game) can be traded on the open market, everybody will have access to all content without ever spending a dime of real cash. So it can't possibly get more "pay to win" than it already is. So, what exactly is the issue ? Perception, maybe. Reality, most certainly not. The major difference between buying PLEX and using the NeX store is that PLEX does not bypass the player-driven economy. A player may be able to buy isk for cash, but still has to get his internet spceship and modules from the in-game economy.
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.28 18:45:00 - [133] Originally by: Akita T ... You got owned, Akita. It is time for you to get over it. Shall we continue from where we agree that micro transactions break the immersion of gaming? --
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.28 18:47:00 - [134] Edited by: Akita T on 28/06/2011 18:48:18 Originally by: Whitehound I have absolutely nothing to say. Then by all means, feel free to remain silent. Originally by: Calden De'Altos The major difference between buying PLEX and using the NeX store is that PLEX does not bypass the player-driven economy. A player may be able to buy isk for cash, but still has to get his internet spceship and modules from the in-game economy. It doesn't need to. Right now, if items would show up, yes, it would completely bypass it, since the NEX was launched in "skeleton" mode, not feature-complete. The NEX "target functionality" is duplicating and enhancing the LP shop, but using AUR instead of LP. WHEN (or if) that particular level of functionality is reached, the only actual difference between a LP shop and the NEX will be that instead of investing in-game time (for running the mission) you're investing real-life time turned into cash from your job. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
SkinSin	Posted - 2011.06.28 18:59:00 - [135] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Whitehound Please, do give more example of just how much posterior pain I'm in over previous verbal disputes and how nicely can I hold a grudge. Why, sure, why not, much obliged, if you asked so nicely... I'll use them googles and pull up a few really fast ! In here you were just rude . I wasn't very polite here, I agree. I should have realized ever since back then that you can't comprehend sarcasm. I know somebody in RL with the exact same problem. Nah, must be something else... Waaait a second here, is this all about T2 BPOs and lashing out ? Grudges, grudges, grudges... Oh, wait, it's not just me who annoys you, apparently Chribba pushes your buttons too. I snorted cola out of my nose! Akita T wins!! On a slightly different note: Originally by: Akita T Or maybe we could get Angelina Jolie to pose as the new Quafe Girl and promote her new "holo" movie... Naked? Yes Please!!!
Calden De'Altos	Posted - 2011.06.28 18:59:00 - [136] Edited by: Calden De''Altos on 28/06/2011 19:00:11 Edited by: Calden De''Altos on 28/06/2011 18:59:47 Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Calden De'Altos The major difference between buying PLEX and using the NeX store is that PLEX does not bypass the player-driven economy. A player may be able to buy isk for cash, but still has to get his internet spceship and modules from the in-game economy. It doesn't need to. Right now, if items would show up, yes, it would completely bypass it, since the NEX was launched in "skeleton" mode, not feature-complete. The NEX "target functionality" is duplicating and enhancing the LP shop, but using AUR instead of LP. WHEN (or if) that particular level of functionality is reached, the only actual difference between a LP shop and the NEX will be that instead of investing in-game time (for running the mission) you're investing real-life time turned into cash from your job. The way I see it, you keep neglecting the fact that NeX would make the item from nothing (or that cash is the material the item is made of. That material does not require any player to gather, refine, or produce in game. This means that the NeX would be creating something from nothing -- which would hurt the player-driven economy, even if I can buy the items with isk (after laundering them through the crazy isk-plex-aur system).
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.28 19:06:00 - [137] Edited by: Whitehound on 28/06/2011 19:08:14 Originally by: Akita T You know, I had to actually google those old arguments, ... Yes, and you accused me of holding a grudge! How about you get back on topic and stop using me to ignore the other posters' arguments, who have been quoting you, while you do not want to argue with me? --
Jade Imp Caldari M. Corp -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2011.06.28 19:08:00 - [138] Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: Mara Rinn MTs mean that those who want to spend more money on the game can do so. It also means that if you allow them to do so will others leave the game. Nobody wants to play a game where some kid can walk into with extra cash in the pocket and can just shoot anyone in the face, or just walk around in better clothing than others. quote] http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win This is a 40 some odd min slideshow type thing done by one of the developers of Battlefield Heros that says you are wrong. No infamatory remarks intended or anthing of the kind. I highly suggest you watch it. I did and while I found parts of it disturbing for our situation right now I still found it to be a very good thing to watch and absorb. _______________________________________________ I'd have something witty here but my wits have left me for my alt.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.06.28 19:15:00 - [139] Edited by: Akita T on 28/06/2011 19:19:55 Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: Akita T You know, I had to actually google those old arguments, ... Yes, and you accused me of holding a grudge! Exactly. I HAD to look them up. Because I couldn't explain why you were acting so dense, and I only vaguely remembered possibly arguing with somebody of a similar name. Thankfully, I know google-fu. On the other hand, you seem to be perfectly capable of holding that grudge long after we stopped even crossing paths. "For you, the day you were verbally spanked was the most jarring day of your forum life. But for me... it was Tuesday." Yes, I just paraphrased a movie/videogame villain. Run with it. Go wild. Release the bees ! Quote: How about you get back on topic and stop using me to ignore the other posters' arguments, who have been quoting you, while you do not want to argue with me? The ones I had reasoning disagreements with (as opposed to mere difference of opinions over matters of taste, beliefs, trust or other personal preferences) that were not just endless repeats of the same argument variations I already tackled were already addressed. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.28 19:17:00 - [140] Originally by: Jade Imp ... and while I found parts of it disturbing for our situation right now I still found it to be a very good thing to watch and absorb. I am sure you did. --

Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.28 19:19:00 - [141] Originally by: Akita T I HAD to look them up. Because I couldn't explain why I ... Because of your grudge. --
Vin Hellsing	Posted - 2011.06.28 19:22:00 - [142] Originally by: Haramir Haleths Hi, so we all knows CCP need more money for Dracula Online and Dust. Now they want produce more revenue due to selling us stuff in EvE and destroying game mechanics and economy. What do you thing about the idea to get more revenue by increasing the monthly fee a little bit. Maybe 2 Euro up per month instead of of selling game breaking crap. Discuss or just flame ... I'm not paying more money for a company's development plans on Dust and WoD. Know why? They bit off more than they could chew, and I'm ****ed that they did. They should have put WoD on the backburner, focused on Incarna and Dust, and finished those products properly before trying to do three different projects at once. So if they think about raising subscription fees, I'm quitting. I have ZERO interest in spending more than $15 a month. EVE already has the highest subscription price in the MMO market. No point in raising it even more.
Jade Imp Caldari M. Corp -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2011.06.28 19:26:00 - [143] Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: Jade Imp ... and while I found parts of it disturbing for our situation right now I still found it to be a very good thing to watch and absorb. I am sure you did. I'm guessing by the rather dismissive tone you won't even bother watching it will you? Your loss. _______________________________________________ I'd have something witty here but my wits have left me for my alt.
Faelune	Posted - 2011.06.28 19:30:00 - [144] Edited by: Faelune on 28/06/2011 19:35:03 Why pay more when the half of all the game will be saved and be grew on from the RMT is the most boring part of? Battling with Bs is so ... It's like watch a "domino cascade". Exciting before but after first strike you can turn yourself during the end time to make dishwashing.
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.06.28 19:53:00 - [145] Originally by: Jade Imp I'm guessing by the rather dismissive tone you won't even bother watching it will you? Your loss. I did watch it sooner. Someone else posted it before. It means however as much to me like a reading out of the Bible or of Scientology. If you want to know what the success of a good game is should you ask the players why they play it, and not marketing why it sells. --


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