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Rose Hips
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.29 05:14:00 -
[1]
From Twitter...
The Mittani, "Have arrived in Reyk and consumed Nonni's sub at local time 1:00 or so. Going to pass the f### out. Summit prep/strategy tomorrow."
So what are your bets?
1) CCP holds their line firm, and demands CSM submission
2) CCP holds their line, but in a kind way asks the CSM to be their "Riot Interdiction Team" (*Actual in-game item)
3) CCP explains their financial situation, and begs the CSM to convince us it's all ok
4) CCP remains fast, but willing to cave on some items. They ask the CSM for advice.
5) The CSM comes in with suggestions how MT could work for us all, CCP listens
6) The CSM comes on strong, and CCP tells the CSM it will be ok, to calm the player base (then laugh as they board the plane)
7) The CSM holds the line, and demands CCP submission (ok I laughed while typing that).
8) The Mattani leads the CSM in a fawrt rampage the likes no one ever seen, not even the volcano's ash compares.
I will wait for the CSM. Looking forward to this MMO history making events.
While you wait, enjoy this YouTube - Vic Dana - I will wait for you classic.
Betting is now open...
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Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.06.29 05:15:00 -
[2]
CSM will come back and tell everyone to chill out, and that NeX is vanity only, as CCP has been saying for months.
I'll bet a monocle.
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RougeOperator
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Posted - 2011.06.29 05:17:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Terminal Insanity
CSM will come back and tell everyone to chill out, and that NeX is vanity only, as CCP has been saying for months.
I'll bet a monocle.
Yeah good ol honest and trustworth CCP. Till 6 months from now they add in boosters for aur. Saying they simply change their PLANS in between the meeting and now.
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Snake Scofield
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Posted - 2011.06.29 05:19:00 -
[4]
CCP by knockout in the third round.
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Ayieka
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.29 05:19:00 -
[5]
i have a feeling ccp already knows what they want to do, and the csm meeting is just to ease the tension, i mean take a look at jita 4-4, its just me and like 5 guys shooting at it.
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Johannes Alexodia
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.29 05:22:00 -
[6]
3.
I bet my first born.
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Warnings and bans are not to be discussed on the forum. Doing so will result in the release of Aur to purchase p2w devices. That is all! |
Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.06.29 05:22:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 29/06/2011 05:24:13
I had a little conversation with someone yesterday about MT/Non-Vanity and he actually had a convincing argument for enabling non-vanity MT.
You see, PLEX already exists, and allows a player to spend 15 dollars and buy a Machariel. How is this any different?
But thats not all. All items in NeX are available to be purchaced with isk (Buy a plex, then convert plex into Aur). So really, a non-vanity MT store would be no different then selling PLEX themselves, since players who dont pay a dime to ccp can still purchace the non-vanity items with isk.
As for the 'financial situation'... i refer you to the Fearless document you give so much policy-making credit to:
Quote:
World of Darkness itself wouldn't be in development if we didn't have the revenue to support it.
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Snake Scofield
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Posted - 2011.06.29 05:25:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 29/06/2011 05:24:13
I had a little conversation with someone yesterday about MT/Non-Vanity and he actually had a convincing argument for enabling non-vanity MT.
You see, PLEX already exists, and allows a player to spend 15 dollars and buy a Machariel. How is this any different?
But thats not all. All items in NeX are available to be purchaced with isk (Buy a plex, then convert plex into Aur). So really, a non-vanity MT store would be no different then selling PLEX themselves, since players who dont pay a dime to ccp can still purchace the non-vanity items with isk.
As for the 'financial situation'... i refer you to the Fearless document you give so much policy-making credit to:
Quote:
World of Darkness itself wouldn't be in development if we didn't have the revenue to support it.
INB4 BUT THATS NOT WHAT WERE ALL COMPLAINING ABOUT!
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Rose Hips
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.29 05:28:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
I had a little conversation with someone yesterday about MT/Non-Vanity and he actually had a convincing argument for enabling non-vanity MT.
Personally, I purchased a Charon for $30.00 with Plex and that was a year ago. I would not buy a Monocle for cash, but there are many players with 20+ billion isk that can sink their money into these items, as their is no other major sink.
Where I draw the line is TIME. This game is based upon a daily queing of skills for TIME SERVED. Any formula that involves time I'm against. Thus, the Charon can be purchased by a 2 day old noob. But good luck undocking it. Don't mess with ANY time based attribute, skill, or standing.
But I digress in my own thread... let the betting continue while "I wait for you".
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Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
Word of Chaos Undivided
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Posted - 2011.06.29 05:29:00 -
[10]
It's a PR stunt to buy time. The CSM being there means absolutely nothing... except that CCP is willing to spend all the money the monocles have made them on PR.
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~
Tiericide |
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Viking Sven
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Posted - 2011.06.29 05:31:00 -
[11]
Plex values aren't static, but are consumed at a steady rate. Steady demand + fluctuating supply depending on number of plex people buy = isk return is based on cash depending on how many plex are bought. Everyone buys plex, it's worth nothing. Nobody buys plex, it's worth ****loads. It's not true MT.
Anyhow. CCP probably decided before CSM was even informed of the meeting that they'd only do vanity MT. So they'll claim there will only be vanity MT (these few days are a 'show', make it seem like the CSM are doing something). And they'll stick to that at first. But Dust will impact Eve, and since Dust is going to be very MT related, Eve will be forced to deal in MT in some form. Or at least this will be the train of thought CCP will sell to us at a much later date.
So, just like the april fools joke in 2008, and the "testing the waters" post where CCP said "ok we wont do MT because you guys hate it so much", they'll claim it won't be an issue only to reintroduce it at a later date.
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Pure Tabasco
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Posted - 2011.06.29 05:32:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 29/06/2011 05:24:13
I had a little conversation with someone yesterday about MT/Non-Vanity and he actually had a convincing argument for enabling non-vanity MT.
You see, PLEX already exists, and allows a player to spend 15 dollars and buy a Machariel. How is this any different?
But thats not all. All items in NeX are available to be purchaced with isk (Buy a plex, then convert plex into Aur). So really, a non-vanity MT store would be no different then selling PLEX themselves, since players who dont pay a dime to ccp can still purchace the non-vanity items with isk.
As for the 'financial situation'... i refer you to the Fearless document you give so much policy-making credit to:
Quote:
World of Darkness itself wouldn't be in development if we didn't have the revenue to support it.
You still dont get it dont you? Maybe that monocle of yours its affecting your vision of reality.
When people buy PLEX and sell it it benefits another player that worked hard (or easy, doesn't care) for its isk.
When people use isk and buy a character, it benefits the player that made the character for "growing" him while you haven't done anything for him.
Using PLEX to buy something in-game benefits the player who made that thing in-game.
Using Aur to buy something that only CCP benefits crash the intention of making the game a sandbox and break the economy to something that doesn't worth anything. Capiche?
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Until CSM tells me a good change coming from CCP. |
Will Cenn
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Posted - 2011.06.29 05:32:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Johannes Alexodia
3.
I bet my first born.
Bet a monocle, it's worth more.
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AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.29 05:36:00 -
[14]
CCP will use the weasel-wording "we have no plans," will offer another non-apology apology, will offer some new cheap crap in the nex store, will give all active accounts a handful of aurum (enough to buy 1 or 2 of the cheaper crappy items) and will try to get the CSM to agree to a quid pro quo where CSM gets stuff that benefits their alliances and CCP gets CSM's rubber stamp.
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ALLYOURMONEY BELONGTOUS
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Posted - 2011.06.29 05:37:00 -
[15]
im going with 3
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Redblade
Reikoku
Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.06.29 05:37:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 29/06/2011 05:24:13
I had a little conversation with someone yesterday about MT/Non-Vanity and he actually had a convincing argument for enabling non-vanity MT.
You see, PLEX already exists, and allows a player to spend 15 dollars and buy a Machariel. How is this any different?
But thats not all. All items in NeX are available to be purchaced with isk (Buy a plex, then convert plex into Aur). So really, a non-vanity MT store would be no different then selling PLEX themselves, since players who dont pay a dime to ccp can still purchace the non-vanity items with isk.
As for the 'financial situation'... i refer you to the Fearless document you give so much policy-making credit to:
Quote:
World of Darkness itself wouldn't be in development if we didn't have the revenue to support it.
There is a huge difference, if you sell the same Machariel that you bought for your Plex converted ISK straight for Aurum instead it bypasses the 4h production time and the mineral cost of the build, it also undermines the market for Machariel BPS's at the same time.There really is no need to go that path as you can buy Plex already to achieve the same effect.
Now if you where to introduce a unique ship BPC for Aurum it would be a different story as it wouldn't be competing with anything and still require minerals and build time to be applied to the BPC before you get a ship out of it, same as any other ship on the market.
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Falbala
Gallente
Ishtar's Destiny
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Posted - 2011.06.29 05:39:00 -
[17]
If they bring the hangar back that will be sign they did something but if it is just only vanity items, that fight is won already.
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Katrina Cortez
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Posted - 2011.06.29 05:45:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
You see, PLEX already exists, and allows a player to spend 15 dollars and buy a Machariel. How is this any different?
It is different... that mach didnt poof in to existence. Someone had to buy a ship, fit it, go out and shoot rats, materals were mined by someone to make it. In doing so they were vulnerable to attack by other players. The NeX would bypass all of those things.
Ambulation... because spaceships don't have wallets. |
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
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Posted - 2011.06.29 05:47:00 -
[19]
Everyone loses all around since the decided to bet the farm on launching two new game in entirely alien techical realms, using untested platforms, in crowded fields occipied by some companies with the absolute most experience in delivering stable products.
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
The Python Cartel.
The Defenders of Pen Island
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Posted - 2011.06.29 05:54:00 -
[20]
I know at least 1 member of the CSM is just in this to fly to Iceland 
I think option 8 has the most merit for inbound lols 
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San Severina
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.29 05:56:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny
I know at least 1 member of the CSM is just in this to fly to Iceland
I think option 8 has the most merit for inbound lols
You are dead to me, the mono looks bad BTW.
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Desert Ice78
Gryphon River Industries
R-I-P
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Posted - 2011.06.29 05:58:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Desert Ice78 on 29/06/2011 05:59:00
If CCP did not intend non-vanity items to be sold in the shop, they would of said so 4 days ago.
They want to do a bit of horse trading with the CSM to see what they can get away with, with a view to conditioning us over time to accepting MT.
So far, no one from CCP has precicesly defined what "vanity" is and is not, case in point, faction POS BPC, anyone got a drop lately? Well, they are kind of vanity aren't that? As in not exactly going to turn the game upside down? How about faction ships....
Put me down for 100ISK on option 3.
There was an Idea that was Eve: whatever you possess, you gained on merit, however worthy or nefarious. Not because you had access to DaddyÆs credit card.....
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Florestan Bronstein
draketrain
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Posted - 2011.06.29 05:59:00 -
[23]
my prediction:
CCP offers "no MTs that affect combat", CSM "achieves" that any ships/items will only be sold as BPCs in the NeX (to save player manufacturing)
stuff like remaps, fitting slots, standings, ... is free game.
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Kirkland Langue
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Posted - 2011.06.29 05:59:00 -
[24]
After thinking about it - I'm of the opinion that the entire "emergency meeting" is a load of crap.
The meeting was arranged months ago, the "leaked" email was intentional, and the store prices set artificially high so that CCP could reduce the prices as some kind of concession during this "emergency meeting".
Sound like :tinfoil: ? Sounds a whole lot more reasonable than the CSM all being able to drop their lives on a dime to fly out of their countries, a Company-Wide email being expected to NOT make it to the public, and a $70 piece of e-jewelry being expected to not get mocked by the gaming media around the world.
No, it was all a set-up in advance. Our collective outrage was not only expected - but desired. And the entire ordeal accomplishes a few goals:
A) Huge publicity. Bad press, especially for a game that tries to pretend to be bad-ass, is actually good press.
B) Distracts from just how crappy expansions have been lately. Not many people are talking about how stagnant the game has become, because everyone is talking about this "scandal". It isn't as though this expansion added ANYTHING to the game. The most anticipated expansion ever, and it adds nothing? I truly believe that the reviews regarding this "revolt" is preferred by CCP to articles written about just how crappy the most anticipated expansion really is.
More evidence - you know that Station being shot up in Jita - That video looked far too professionally done; I suspect that CCP actually had a hand in helping to create that video.
I'm still unsubbed, and I still believe that my reasons given to CCP are accurate: the game has stagnated and the past few expansions have done nothing to revitalize the game.
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Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
Word of Chaos Undivided
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Posted - 2011.06.29 06:01:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Val''Dore on 29/06/2011 06:01:20
A thriving economy is a cyclic thing. Cash shops circumvent the economic model... kind of like the Federal Reserve Bank creating money out of thin air.
You need an Exhaustible Supply, a Variable Demand, and a Medium to balance an economy. Without those three things, you don't have a working Economy. Let me break it down further.
If you have infinite supply of something... say Monocles, it essentially has no value. So, buying a Monocle is the same as spending $80 on an idea that everyone else already has access to. It doesn't matter if you are the only one with one if there is an inexhaustible supply of them. Making all of them, actual and potential, worthless.
Variable Demand is a bit like tides. Sometimes you need more of something than you do at other times. This creates a fluctuating dynamic, which when tied into the Exhaustible Supply creates a market powered redistribution of wealth, which itself is critical to growth economically.
The medium is immaterial, at least when it comes down to what type. Most modern economic models are based on a currency medium, which means that you invent a commodity with values that can be traded universally against all other commodities. But any medium can result in economic prosperity, so long as it is universal.
Now, many people would point out that minerals and such in EVE are infinite and therefore, worthless. But this is not so when you take into consideration that time has value. Cash shops remove the time value ratio entirely along with any other valuation.
Bottom line: Cash Shops add nothing of value to an ingame economy.
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~
Tiericide |
Katrina Cortez
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Posted - 2011.06.29 06:07:00 -
[26]
Nice post there...
Ambulation... because spaceships don't have wallets. |
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
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Posted - 2011.06.29 06:10:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Val'Dore
Edited by: Val''Dore on 29/06/2011 06:01:20
A thriving economy is a cyclic thing. Cash shops circumvent the economic model... kind of like the Federal Reserve Bank creating money out of thin air.
You need an Exhaustible Supply, a Variable Demand, and a Medium to balance an economy. Without those three things, you don't have a working Economy. Let me break it down further.
If you have infinite supply of something... say Monocles, it essentially has no value. So, buying a Monocle is the same as spending $80 on an idea that everyone else already has access to. It doesn't matter if you are the only one with one if there is an inexhaustible supply of them. Making all of them, actual and potential, worthless.
Variable Demand is a bit like tides. Sometimes you need more of something than you do at other times. This creates a fluctuating dynamic, which when tied into the Exhaustible Supply creates a market powered redistribution of wealth, which itself is critical to growth economically.
The medium is immaterial, at least when it comes down to what type. Most modern economic models are based on a currency medium, which means that you invent a commodity with values that can be traded universally against all other commodities. But any medium can result in economic prosperity, so long as it is universal.
Now, many people would point out that minerals and such in EVE are infinite and therefore, worthless. But this is not so when you take into consideration that time has value. Cash shops remove the time value ratio entirely along with any other valuation.
Bottom line: Cash Shops add nothing of value to an ingame economy.
Well, not to take issue with the many true points in the above, I object to the "no value" part.
I had many corp mates without the time to fully participate in parts of the economy, or ratting necessary for them to play their roll in the economy... blowing up ships and getting them blown up.
A great many of them paid real $ for _some- isk each month and would not have played without it.
As the people who enjoy the economy tend to produce more than they consume and probably in general spend a little less effective time kililng things or being killed, they are net producers both of isk and items.
We need some net consumers to balance them off... and for that matter, any additional player adds some value to the economy in making it a deeper, market in more of the items traded which many of are fairly eractically traded as they are even with 300k plus accounts worth of characters on a single server (trust me, I trade many implants and tags and stuff that even in jita might only trade a few times a day and see the deviation in demand of other goods readily create swings without any unusual buying activites that point to manipulations (when you update orders in an item a couple times a day for 6 months and often have the lead buy and lead sell price for portions of the day, you get a pretty good feelilgn for what is manipulation and what isn't)
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Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
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Posted - 2011.06.29 06:15:00 -
[28]
Originally by: AkJon Ferguson
CCP will use the weasel-wording "we have no plans," will offer another non-apology apology, will offer some new cheap crap in the nex store, will give all active accounts a handful of aurum (enough to buy 1 or 2 of the cheaper crappy items) and will try to get the CSM to agree to a quid pro quo where CSM gets stuff that benefits their alliances and CCP gets CSM's rubber stamp.
/this
or number (6).
---
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum
I can tell you that this is one of the moments when we look at what those at CCP will do and less of what they say. |
Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.06.29 06:27:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 29/06/2011 06:30:20
Originally by: Katrina Cortez
Edited by: Katrina Cortez on 29/06/2011 06:04:32
It is different... that mach didnt poof in to existence. Someone had to buy a ship, fit it, go out and shoot rats, and get the bpc. Materals were mined by someone to make it. In doing so they were vulnerable to attack by other players. The NeX would bypass all of those things.
Originally by: Pure Tabasco
YOU STILL DON'T GET IT DON'T YOU? Maybe that MONOCLE of yours its affecting your vision of REALITY.
When people buy PLEX and sell it it benefits another player that worked hard (or easy, doesn't care) for its isk.
When people use isk and buy a character, it benefits the player that made the character for "growing" him while you haven't done anything for him.
Using PLEX to buy something in-game benefits the player who made that thing in-game.
Using Aur to buy something that only CCP benefits crash the intention of making the game a sandbox and break the economy to something that doesn't worth anything. Capiche?
Wrong.
Using Aur to buy a non-vanity item can still benifit players. It depends how they create the system. Note, the system hasnt been created yet, and thus your point is just mindless speculation and fear mongering. You assume that CCP will cut players out of the transaction, when infact there has been many great suggestions all over the forums on how to cut the players in on the deal.
For example, in order to upgrade your raven to a 'NeX Raven' with an extra 5% torpedo damage, you would still require a player-built regular raven in exchange.
And then, nothing is broken, Capiche?
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Sub Prime
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Posted - 2011.06.29 06:30:00 -
[30]
CCP will say that there will be no physical non-vanity items. They will however offer remaps & sp realloaction via MT though.
CCP will not agree to making CQ optional though and won't agree to changing their development to a) placing more priority on Eve or b) resolving existing issues.
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