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Comy 1
Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2011.07.02 00:31:00 -
[1]
Hello!
Attribute implants in slot 1-5 are the tools pretty much all of us use to maximize our training speed. They are available in different pricings, all from a couple of thousand up to 100mil ISK each. Since your attributes are the only thing that affect your training speed, alot of people want to use as good implants as they can.
However, I think there is a flaw to this system that can be changed to improve gameplay to the better. As it is now, alot of people living in empire will buy the expensive +5 implants to maximize their training speed. Since living in empire tends to be relatively safe for your pod, even though someone might bait or suicide your ship. On the other side of the world you have the people living in 0.0/w-space constantly risking getting stuck in a bubble where chanses of escaping with your pod intact is close to nill. People living in 0.0 tend to avoid buying these +5 implants since the risk vs reward makes them a bad choise.
This is to me an unfortunate situation for BOTH the empire dwellers AND the people living in nullsec. The people in nullsec will not train at full speed, while the people in empire is very unlikely to explore nullsec for a roam since "it's not worth jumpcloning out of my +5's for a 1 hour roam". This leads to a situation where said players are very likely to never end up trying out PvP, since the cost is too great.
I however have an idea in an early form that could tackle this! Please consider the following:
- REMOVE ATTRIBUTE ENHANCING IMPLANTS COMPLETELY! -
That's right! This would however leave a void that would need to be filled. Imagine that instead of having an implant, use a temporary booster that increase said attribute instead. Said consumable would give an effect just as an implant with effects ranging from +1 to +5, but is persistant through death. HOWEVER, said consumable would be temporary and last e.g 1 week or 1 month (I haven't given duration much thought). If a new consumable of the same type is used while time remains on the current one, the extra time will be added to the total time.
This will create an opportunity to implement another proffesion to EVE. See it as the legal side of the drug market. One idea is to actually make these attribute enhancers use the same materials as boosters, which will suddenly make this branch of manufacturing alot more interresting as demand would increase, and gas harvesting might not be something even miners laugh at.
But what should we do with implant slot 1-5? They are only there for the pirate implants baby! Said implant sets would lose their attribute bonus, but players that previously wanted to own a low grade set but choosed not to due to the weak +2 attribute bonus are very likely to invest in these. Heck I will probably get a slave, crystal and snake set if this was the case!
So where does this leave us? We will end up with a situation where the market is stimulated while attribute enhancers becomes a commodity built by players, sold to players instead of being seeded into the game as mission rewards or sold in LP stores. But ultimately, it will let the nullsec dwellers train skills at max speed without having to worry about paying the cost multiple times compared to a person living in high sec. At the same time the people living in high sec might be alot more willing to explore the universe and try PvP when they don't have to worry about losing implants worth several times more than the ship the fly. And should they have expensive hardwirings in their main clone, they are likely to be more willing to jump clone out of it, as long as their skills won't train any slower.
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Skarfase
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Posted - 2011.07.02 00:45:00 -
[2]
I rather like this idea. It would be nice to finally not have to worry about losing my +4's so I can go on a roam whenever I want. Although, more frequent jumpcloning would probably be easier. Still, a thumbs up.
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Ranka Mei
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Posted - 2011.07.02 00:54:00 -
[3]
+1
--
"All your monies AUR belong to us." -- CCP |
DeftCrow Redriver
Best Path Inc.
Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.07.02 02:04:00 -
[4]
Spice, Mentat and Mentats. Why not?
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Murtal Liven
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Posted - 2011.07.02 06:56:00 -
[5]
I like this idea. Only problem I could see is compensating people with implants already plugged in, especially the people who spent billions on pirate implants.
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Spawn Shouna
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Posted - 2011.07.02 07:11:00 -
[6]
Pirate implants could stay, just remove the learning attribute function.
+1
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Medidranda Livoga
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Posted - 2011.07.02 09:40:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Medidranda Livoga on 02/07/2011 09:40:22
Probably a good idea, this stuff is just barrier to PVP and encourages ship spinning (lately avatar spinning and doll dressing).
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Tobias Sjodin
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.07.02 10:36:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Tobias Sjodin on 02/07/2011 10:35:47
I like the idea, so it must be terrible.
HABIT
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Katsu Shirou
Veldspar Serious Business
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Posted - 2011.07.02 11:25:00 -
[9]
Totally like the idea.
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Sandra Voi
sacrosanctae plebs
The Fourth District
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Posted - 2011.07.02 11:30:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Sandra Voi on 02/07/2011 11:35:28
+1
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Zangorus
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Posted - 2011.07.02 12:27:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Zangorus on 02/07/2011 12:27:01
I like it
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rootimus maximus
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Posted - 2011.07.02 14:35:00 -
[12]
Ideally, players should be able to build all in-game items. If we can't have the OP's idea, give us BPOs for all implants except the fancy crystal / omega / what have you ones.
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Hikivirta
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.07.02 14:58:00 -
[13]
ppl living in jita will crash this idea
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Nirnias Stirrum
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Posted - 2011.07.02 15:38:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Nirnias Stirrum on 02/07/2011 15:40:29
I love this idea! I havnt used my expensive clone in months cause of pew pewing often! The only downside i can see is just "remembering" when you need to update your weekly/monthly attribute enhancer injection. But thats just lazy people!
Maybe keep the permanent implants and just implament these attribute enhancers also! This will get the game back to being more pew pew orientated!
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Sainrin
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Posted - 2011.07.02 15:42:00 -
[15]
Love it +1 support
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Oen''Gus
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:24:00 -
[16]
Totally agree, since they nerfed the JB system we have to jump through gates. Yup, startgates. Sometimes there's even a bubble with some dudes on it and they kill me and my implants.. WTF!
+1 Out in null, safe as in high!
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Comy 1
Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:34:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Comy 1 on 02/07/2011 16:34:54
 Originally by: Oen''Gus
Totally agree, since they nerfed the JB system we have to jump through gates. Yup, startgates. Sometimes there's even a bubble with some dudes on it and they kill me and my implants.. WTF!
+1 Out in null, safe as in high!
I don't personaly live in nullsec, fact is my character logs off in Jita, even though I spend most of my active time roaming arround the world. And if you cared about reading my entire post instead of breaking out pieces of it you would notice that I don't want to make EVE no-risk at all.
Personally I would probably risk even more isk if this is implemented than I do now, the only thing I want is that your characters progression should not be decided by where you choose to live.
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Mike Hysteria
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:47:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Mike Hysteria on 02/07/2011 16:48:07
You could maybe ask to CCP to create Boddy salvagers...
Whith those salvagers you could "Salvage" Implant-parts from a dead body in station with special Jove-facilities, and then... Recreate new Implants with the appropriate BPO + Materials you salvaged, coupled with some PI Items, to make PI even more used.
+1 Implants BPOs: 15Mio ISK.
+2 Implants BPOs: 30Mio ISK.
+3 Implants BPOs: 45Mio ISK.
+4 Implants BPOs: 60Mio ISK.
+5 Implants BPOs: 75Mio ISK.
So, you could make a cheap set of BPOs and make Implants easier to generate, and by then... More Implants on the market, prices goes down.
Mike aka Psy.
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dei'ro
Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:37:00 -
[19]
no longer will i have to stick with a cheap +3 set to go pewpew, more isk to buy ships that dont suck 
+1
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SomeoneStrange
Total Grief
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:05:00 -
[20]
You can't force all the empire carebears out to null sec. Quite a few of them simply avoid it on principle.
At the same time, I quite like the fact that when destroying someone's pod, I could potentially be wiping out billions of ISK.
Yes, carebears may have their skills train faster than 0.0 pilots - however null sec ratting and null sec mining pull in ISK vastly faster than running Level 4 Missions in empire space, and mining in empire space.
Because of this, most empire carebears never will actually get a full set of +5's, because the cost is simply out of the question.
Total Grief
"You mad Bro?"
(....local....)
"Oh yes, I think he's mad." |
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serrie
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:16:00 -
[21]
+1
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Herping yourDerp
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:18:00 -
[22]
why not have both a consumable and implants? none stacking of course in the end ( at least for highsec) it be cheaper to live in +5s but nullsec can take consumables
i like the idea, but i think both would be better, variety is good, implants will be cheaper in the long run but if ur ganked ur sunk, like now, except with consumable option you get PVPers the ability to train at max speed without risking to much everytime they log in
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Comy 1
Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:38:00 -
[23]
Quote:
You can't force all the empire carebears out to null sec. Quite a few of them simply avoid it on principle.
I never said I wanted to force anyone into null, I said that I wanted people to feel like they CAN do it if they want to, without losing out on 23h of boosted training. Personally I go out anyway, but I have several friends that will not do it because of this.
Quote:
Yes, carebears may have their skills train faster than 0.0 pilots - however null sec ratting and null sec mining pull in ISK vastly faster than running Level 4 Missions in empire space, and mining in empire space.
Because of this, most empire carebears never will actually get a full set of +5's, because the cost is simply out of the question.
My friends gave me a number, stating that he pushed 100mil/h doing high sec lvl 4 missions. This was before the buff where all agents were considered quality 20, and combat agents only giving combat missions. I have personally ran high sec incursions scoring 100mil pure isk per hour, not even counting the LP.
To beat these numbers in 0.0 you will need to run as pimped ships as you do in high sec. But the risk is far greater, and the majority will not do this. Claiming high sec dwellers not being able to afford +5's is pure bogus. Anyone in EVE, no matter if he live in high, low or null sec should have ANY problem affording a set of +5's if he actually tried to get them. The difference as I have said several times is that the risk/reward is not worth it. To be perfectly honest, a player who don't know how to come up with 400 mil for a set of +5s (who wants charisma anyway?) no matter where he live is doing something seriously wrong.
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Raid'En
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:27:00 -
[24]
that's a pretty good idea !
nice for confort of cloning AND nice for the market
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Sylar McIntyr
Konstrukteure der Zukunft
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.07.03 00:02:00 -
[25]
Do it! (in a Kestrel)
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Darryl Ward
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Posted - 2011.07.03 05:26:00 -
[26]
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Della Monk
Broski Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.07.03 08:01:00 -
[27]
Interesting.
I like.
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Mania Motsu
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Posted - 2011.07.03 08:31:00 -
[28]
This would work. +1
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Better Than You
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Posted - 2011.07.03 08:44:00 -
[29]
The current system works just fine. Not everything in this game has to revolve around PvP you know.
/not supported
-
**Friendship will always trump the desire to fight!** |
Finn McCaan
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Posted - 2011.07.03 08:54:00 -
[30]
On first reading this I thought erk, but after some consideration this is acctually a good idea. For the reasons outlined by the OP, and for alot of the same reasons as removing learning skills.
The idea of learning boosters is excellent (especially if, the better ones at least, are player manufactured).
I'm not convinced that you can leave slot 1-5 only to the faction sets. Its possible that you might need to consider new task based implants for these slots. PI, S&I, manufactureing, Incarna, More combat implants are just some of possible alternate uses for these slots
Also support the idea of implant bpo/bpc's.
More combat is good, and the loss of a pod will still sting from the clone fee - and whatever combat implants you have in, and the boosters floating in your pod goo.
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Reverend Raiden
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Posted - 2011.07.03 14:39:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Reverend Raiden on 03/07/2011 14:38:43
+1 OP.
Also its both amusing and sad that none of the naysayers managed to either read the entire op, or atleast understand what he is saying. Mouthbreathers FTL.
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Vice Admiral Spreadsheet
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Posted - 2011.07.03 14:48:00 -
[32]
Either this, or shorter clone jump times.
+1
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Songbird
Gallente
T.I.E. Inc.
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Posted - 2011.07.03 14:51:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Songbird on 03/07/2011 14:51:27
+1 to removing jump clone waiting period
apparently I can't spell clone, btw the IGB has lag when typing... has anyone else noticed that?
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Whatisthiz
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Posted - 2011.07.03 16:25:00 -
[34]
+1
Best post in a long time, hope ccp gets this!
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Ripperljohn
Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2011.07.03 19:49:00 -
[35]
very good idea, supporting.
--------------------------------------------------
"Look, we're basically on earth to **** and ****. So unless your job's to help people **** or ****, it's not that important, so relax."
-shi |
Anamiel
Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2011.07.03 19:53:00 -
[36]
+1, great idea
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Portmanteau
CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2011.07.03 21:17:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Portmanteau on 03/07/2011 21:16:54
Originally by: Better Than You
The current system works just fine. Not everything in this game has to revolve around PvP you know.
/not supported
and it doesn't
/supported
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Egilmonsc
Massively Mob
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Posted - 2011.07.04 00:54:00 -
[38]
Supported for changing the stagnant one-time-pay system of attribute implants into a continuous investment.
And for the possibility of creating a new legal profession: pharmacist.
---
Where we're going, we won't need eyes to see. |
Kaelie Onren
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Posted - 2011.07.04 02:44:00 -
[39]
Good thoughts, but I don't see a problem in the current system. You can have the consumables for your no implant 0.0 clone, and +5s for your emp clone. Where is the flaw in that system?
One thing you failed to consider is that if you did away with the implants though you will make 0.0 clones more equivalent to empire clones, you just removed all differentiation between the rich and the poor (beginners) who cannot afford +5s. I think that is a FAR WORSE game balance ruiner. As you know the skilltree is not linear, and a lot of the higher skills really require implants to be able to train in reasonable time. It would really suck if I had to keep 'feeding consumables' to my clone as I train for my carrier.
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Shereza
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Posted - 2011.07.04 05:30:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Shereza on 04/07/2011 05:30:22
Originally by: Better Than You
The current system works just fine. Not everything in this game has to revolve around PvP you know.
/not supported
It would affect PvE as well by helping convince some of the more adventurous carebears to consider going into low-sec/null-sec to do missions, ratting, and/or mining.
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Jorn Grevis
Gallente
Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2011.07.04 06:48:00 -
[41]
+1
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Comy 1
Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2011.07.04 08:13:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
you just removed all differentiation between the rich and the poor (beginners) who cannot afford +5s. I think that is a FAR WORSE game balance ruiner.
WHAT? How the hell do you think now? Really explain to me.
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Sydexlic Maragan
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Posted - 2011.07.04 11:17:00 -
[43]
I think a better solution would be to make jump cloning a 12 hourly cooldown or even less. No new system needs to be enacted and it provides most of the benefits to your proposal. Right now, the 24 hour cooldown is overly restrictive without doing much, if anything for gameplay.
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Jahpahjay
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Posted - 2011.07.04 14:12:00 -
[44]
The more I think about this idea, the more I like it. While it may be simpler just to shorten JC times, shortening does not also create more opportunities for new jobs nor does it really protect implant investment (just circumvents the problem).
This idea solves quite a few problems, with extra opportunities to boot. Not to mention an isk sink of a sort, which HAS to get CCP's approval.
Supported.
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Quinn Diaz
DON'T DO IT DAD
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Posted - 2011.07.04 14:31:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Sydexlic Maragan
I think a better solution would be to make jump cloning a 12 hourly cooldown or even less. No new system needs to be enacted and it provides most of the benefits to your proposal. Right now, the 24 hour cooldown is overly restrictive without doing much, if anything for gameplay.
They actually have a similar system in place already for new players that buy the boxed version of the game. They get a booster that increase their attributes and some combat stats that have a 10 day duration if my memory serves me right.
I love this idea!
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Dare X
The 0ffice of Secret Intelligence
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Posted - 2011.07.04 15:11:00 -
[46]
I completely support anything that encourages PvP.
----------------------------
<insert witty comments here> |
Venkul Mul
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Posted - 2011.07.04 17:13:00 -
[47]
Supported.
After all I suggested something similar a few years ago.
The best way, I feel, would be to keep both systems, 24 hours stat boosters for people doing dangerous things and implants for people doing less dangerous activities.
The components for the stat boosters should come from gas harvesting (most or all of it done in low sec/0.0) and they should be balanced so that 3 months of continuous use of the boosters would be roughly equivalent to the cost of a implant of the same strength.
The boosters should cease functioning if you get killed (to keep them working the same way of the implants), but as the single pill will be fairly inexpensive it shouldn't be a big problem.
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Kaelie Onren
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Posted - 2011.07.05 07:12:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Comy 1
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
you just removed all differentiation between the rich and the poor (beginners) who cannot afford +5s. I think that is a FAR WORSE game balance ruiner.
WHAT? How the hell do you think now? Really explain to me.
Rich can afford to keep +5s in. Poor cannot.
Rich presently can have clones with both implants and boosters.
Poor may only have +2 and boosters.
Do away with the implants, and you have both rich and poor with boosters. The non-linearity comes from the fact that implants cost go up a lot from +1 to +5. Boosters, or any consumables, won't be as expensive as any perma boosting implant. Flattening the divide between rich/poor.
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DeftCrow Redriver
Gallente
Best Path Inc.
Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.07.05 07:43:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
Snip
If you define "the rich" as someone who simply consumes +5 booster spices or uses +5 implants, then you're scope on this subject is pitiful. (More so because "the rich" PvPers would want Slaves, Halos and Snakes, not +5s.)
Want a divide between the rich/poor? Then become a supplier, explore the virgin spice market, expand the spice business and exploit the poor masses that will rely on the new spice, namely by force or marketeering. It's for the Latinum baby!
-----------------------------------------------
Originally by: CCP Zulu
It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only.
...... We'll see. |
sekips spikes
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Posted - 2011.07.05 18:01:00 -
[50]
The empiredwellers have a nice income (if they care enough to read up on how to run missions) with practically no risk, I dont see a problem with that. It is way to easy to make isk in empire as it is, noone should be able to complain about being poor and living in empire.
Those that want to reduce the JC timer need to rethink that, it would create more problems than solutions.
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Apice
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Posted - 2011.07.05 19:29:00 -
[51]
+0.5
I like the idea of player crafted boosters replacing the attribute implants, however I would like to see the effects destroyed upon death. Just make the resources/manufacturing for the higher level boosters +5 skills available only in null sec. So while the boosters would have to be applied more often, they would also be more accessible at a lower cost.
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Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
Word of Chaos Undivided
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Posted - 2011.07.05 19:54:00 -
[52]
I like the direction this is going.
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~
Tiericide |
Jack Viresi
Point of No Return
Waterboard
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Posted - 2011.07.05 23:29:00 -
[53]
Intriguing Idea.
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Rented
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Posted - 2011.07.06 01:29:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Rented on 06/07/2011 01:29:30
Agreed, I've always found attribute implants to be nearly as silly and irritating as learning skills were, no matter what clone you're in you feel like you're getting screwed because of your choice.
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Kaelie Onren
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Posted - 2011.07.06 03:30:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 06/07/2011 03:31:49
Originally by: DeftCrow Redriver
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
Snip
If you define "the rich" as someone who simply consumes +5 booster spices or uses +5 implants, then you're scope on this subject is pitiful. (More so because "the rich" PvPers would want Slaves, Halos and Snakes, not +5s.)
Want a divide between the rich/poor? Then become a supplier, explore the virgin spice market, expand the spice business and exploit the poor masses that will rely on the new spice, namely by force or marketeering. It's for the Latinum baby!
I was illustrating a point, but sure, if the use of snakes or other more expensive implants pleases you, then feel free to substitute.
So in a long winded way then, you will agree with me that this change will flatten the rich/poor divide.
That is game balance altering, and although not all game balance altering changes are a bad thing. They need to be well thought out in a pro/con basis. I see nobody on this forum considering the cons.
Let me throw one out just off the top of my head.... do this... then what happens to all the storyline missions which give out juicy implants? You gimp them to give out temp boosters instead? Booster blueprints? Not exactly the same...what about everyone who currently have implants? do they instantly disappear? Do people get 'paid back' for them? If yes, then at what price? What about the people who in the game who are training for super caps and are happy to just leave their character dormant and training for 3 months? Are you not rudely imposing upon their freedom to do that? Now they must log in every 2 weeks to "freshen up" their booster?
I support this discussion going on, but I encourage more people to think about the unforeseen/negative consequences, instead of just basking in the glow of the positives.
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Alejan Gerakh
Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.07.06 03:32:00 -
[56]
If there's an option to use boosters that last a whole month (think of people on vacation, but leaving their character training?), I might stand by this. But also a daily solution would be invaluable for null-sec pilots... they would just have to keep a stockpile.
Ultimately, though, I think I like the idea of having both in place, and making it so the boosters are incompatible with the implants that give the same bonuses, to counteract the 'boosters AND implants' advantage some posters have expressed concern about - if it is deemed necessary, at least. Or just have a maximum attribute boost hard-coded in, so that someone using +4s, for instance, could maybe take +1 boosters only.
I still support the classic implants because they're a solid investment- you pay the premiums, you get consistent, no-maintenance training boost. But I also wholeheartedly agree on an alternative, especially if it makes good use of an underutilized market.
----
"Sounds like a bad case of pikal envy, if you ask me."
"The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new." |
Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
Word of Chaos Undivided
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Posted - 2011.07.06 05:14:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Alejan Gerakh
If there's an option to use boosters that last a whole month (think of people on vacation, but leaving their character training?), I might stand by this. But also a daily solution would be invaluable for null-sec pilots... they would just have to keep a stockpile.
Considering that skills train based on the attributes that existed when they started training, this is a nonissue really.
Even if the booster expired once you started the skill, the entire train time for that skill would still evidence the boosted effect.
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~
Tiericide |
Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar
Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.07.06 12:08:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Val'Dore
Considering that skills train based on the attributes that existed when they started training, this is a nonissue really.
Even if the booster expired once you started the skill, the entire train time for that skill would still evidence the boosted effect.
Ah, that helps. So that means when remapping, your current skill won't be slowed down if you are remapping away from its primary or secondary? If so, this greatly simplifies my issues around remapping time.
I still think attribute implants can stay in for those willing to risk it for the convenience of not having to keep using the boosters... but, as I said, they either shouldn't be able to use boosters, or only gain up to the current maximum bonus.
----
"Sounds like a bad case of pikal envy, if you ask me."
"The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new." |
Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
Word of Chaos Undivided
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Posted - 2011.07.06 13:29:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Alejan Gerakh
Originally by: Val'Dore
Considering that skills train based on the attributes that existed when they started training, this is a nonissue really.
Even if the booster expired once you started the skill, the entire train time for that skill would still evidence the boosted effect.
Ah, that helps. So that means when remapping, your current skill won't be slowed down if you are remapping away from its primary or secondary? If so, this greatly simplifies my issues around remapping time.
I still think attribute implants can stay in for those willing to risk it for the convenience of not having to keep using the boosters... but, as I said, they either shouldn't be able to use boosters, or only gain up to the current maximum bonus.
Well, I haven't personally tested it, but I think remapping forces your skill to stop progressing. You also have to stop your skill progress to add implants. But jump cloning out of your +5s while Carrier 5 is ticking down for the next 3 weeks, will not result in an increase of training time.
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~
Tiericide |
Dravidshky
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Posted - 2011.07.09 10:56:00 -
[60]
Supported and bumped |
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J Kunjeh
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Posted - 2011.07.09 12:17:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Apice
+0.5
I like the idea of player crafted boosters replacing the attribute implants, however I would like to see the effects destroyed upon death. Just make the resources/manufacturing for the higher level boosters +5 skills available only in null sec. So while the boosters would have to be applied more often, they would also be more accessible at a lower cost.
I support the original idea and think it deserves much discussion in the halls of CCP. But the above tweak has a ton of merit too and would make this idea that much better. |
Sarrgon
Caldari
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 22:04:00 -
[62]
I like this idea also, I know of many, including myself that while in our "good clones" will almost always shy away from pvp to avoid the possiblility of getting podded. Though I can see a few variations of this, upgraded clone insurance that includes implants, but still is very much affordable or like with the learning skills, remove them and apply them to everyone in the game.
Now of course I would keep the Skill hardwiring implants the same. But I think a change of the attribute implants would help more people pvp and less paranoid of losing the +5's. |
Selinate
|
Posted - 2011.07.10 02:07:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Selinate on 10/07/2011 02:07:21
*ponder*
Meh, I wouldn't mind this. It is a bit of a pain to use a jump clone to not risk my implants...
*HOWEVER* I would like it if there were boosts that lasted an entire year so I didn't have to worry about it that often. |
Darth Helmat
|
Posted - 2011.07.10 12:43:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Darth Helmat on 10/07/2011 12:43:15
Edited by: Darth Helmat on 10/07/2011 12:42:56
I like this. I think the barriers the OP describes are real, so I'm giving it a +1. However there are alternative changes that would give the same effect. Including
- reducing the price of attribute implants, so that say a +5 is the same price as a current +4
- Removing just +5s from the game
- Limiting the legality of implants by sec status
- Allowing more flexible (balanced) clone jumping (presumably extra jumps per 24hrs for a fee or invalidating your medical clone)
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Kaelie Onren
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Posted - 2011.07.10 15:31:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Darth Helmat
Edited by: Darth Helmat on 10/07/2011 12:43:15
Edited by: Darth Helmat on 10/07/2011 12:42:56
I like this. I think the barriers the OP describes are real, so I'm giving it a +1. However there are alternative changes that would give the same effect. Including
- reducing the price of attribute implants, so that say a +5 is the same price as a current +4
- Removing just +5s from the game
- Limiting the legality of implants by sec status
- Allowing more flexible (balanced) clone jumping (presumably extra jumps per 24hrs for a fee or invalidating your medical clone)
Interesting... but how exactly would you 'reduce' the price on something in a completely market driven economy?
Either it was on oversight, or you misunderstood how prices of things are determined in eve.
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Kaelie Onren
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Posted - 2011.07.10 15:37:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Sarrgon
I like this idea also, I know of many, including myself that while in our "good clones" will almost always shy away from pvp to avoid the possiblility of getting podded. Though I can see a few variations of this, upgraded clone insurance that includes implants, but still is very much affordable or like with the learning skills, remove them and apply them to everyone in the game.
Now of course I would keep the Skill hardwiring implants the same. But I think a change of the attribute implants would help more people pvp and less paranoid of losing the +5's.
While I am very interested in where this discussion is going to end up, I am skeptical.
The unsaid 'con' of this proposal is that although people would PvP more, each PvP win/loss would be worth less, therefore dulling an otherwise exhilarating (or painful) experience, to something about the excitement level of a chess game. Nothing wagered, nothing won, means less of an experience in general. Personally, if I blow up an enemy, the experience is made sweet in me knowing that he lost a lot of isk in implants. Now if implants were cheap or free, or insured, then that takes a lot of the fun out of the kill.
How do you propose to mitigate that side effect? |
Comy 1
Ore Mongers
|
Posted - 2011.07.10 15:43:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
Originally by: Sarrgon
I like this idea also, I know of many, including myself that while in our "good clones" will almost always shy away from pvp to avoid the possiblility of getting podded. Though I can see a few variations of this, upgraded clone insurance that includes implants, but still is very much affordable or like with the learning skills, remove them and apply them to everyone in the game.
Now of course I would keep the Skill hardwiring implants the same. But I think a change of the attribute implants would help more people pvp and less paranoid of losing the +5's.
While I am very interested in where this discussion is going to end up, I am skeptical.
The unsaid 'con' of this proposal is that although people would PvP more, each PvP win/loss would be worth less, therefore dulling an otherwise exhilarating (or painful) experience, to something about the excitement level of a chess game. Nothing wagered, nothing won, means less of an experience in general. Personally, if I blow up an enemy, the experience is made sweet in me knowing that he lost a lot of isk in implants. Now if implants were cheap or free, or insured, then that takes a lot of the fun out of the kill.
How do you propose to mitigate that side effect?
The side effect will be mitigated by the fact that alot more people will see the use of pirate implants in slot 1-5, especially the low grade ones that are very cost effective for their bonus. What stops alot of people from using them today is the weak +2 attribute bonus. |
Kaelie Onren
|
Posted - 2011.07.10 21:04:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Comy 1
The side effect will be mitigated by the fact that alot more people will see the use of pirate implants in slot 1-5, especially the low grade ones that are very cost effective for their bonus. What stops alot of people from using them today is the weak +2 attribute bonus.
If these are so cost effective (I read as meaning cheap) then how exactly does that give me the satisfaction that I just wasted $$$ of my enemies isk?
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Comy 1
Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2011.07.10 23:37:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Comy 1 on 10/07/2011 23:38:20
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
Originally by: Comy 1
The side effect will be mitigated by the fact that alot more people will see the use of pirate implants in slot 1-5, especially the low grade ones that are very cost effective for their bonus. What stops alot of people from using them today is the weak +2 attribute bonus.
If these are so cost effective (I read as meaning cheap) then how exactly does that give me the satisfaction that I just wasted $$$ of my enemies isk?
Cost effective != cheap. It means that they give a good bonus to your ships considering their price. If you want to feel satisfaction about podding someone you will probably do that more believing someone had pirate implants.
This idea is not perfect since I'm not a person working with game balance but as you can see in the thread people like what the idea stands for. Character progression is the core of any MMORPG, and the fact that the people experiencing combat and/or explore the world should be penalized is in my oppinion wrong. IN EVE IT'S CONTRAPRODUCTIVE TO DO THINGS THAT WOULD YEILD YOU MORE EXPERIENCE IN ANY OTHER GAME.
It seems like you have made it your personal crusade to keep talking down this thread. I'm all open for suggestions on how to improve the concept, but when you just keep trying to grasp at straws to talk it down, please just keep out.
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Lakuma
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Posted - 2011.07.11 01:58:00 -
[70]
I like the idea BUT...
The boosters should not persist through death - they should instead come in one hour, 6 hour, 12 hour, one day, one week, and one month increments. This allows PvP players to utilize such a gift, but at the same time lose the bonus if not careful.
Even then, would a one month booster user then not PvP for a month? The fact is these items would be most effecient with the long-use ones: i.e. four 6 hour boosters cost more in materials (and thus price) than a single day-long booster.
The idea is sound, but needs work which OP already acknowledged. However a persistent through death is imo not good - because that renders short term boosters worthless anyways.
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Darth Helmat
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Posted - 2011.07.11 12:11:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
Interesting... but how exactly would you 'reduce' the price on something in a completely market driven economy?
Either it was on oversight, or you misunderstood how prices of things are determined in eve.
No its not an oversight - you misunderstand where implants come from - the LP store and agent rewards. Unlike internet spaceships, implants are manufactured by CCP who control the supply rate, and hence the price.
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Darth Helmat
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Posted - 2011.07.11 12:16:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Lakuma
I like the idea BUT...
The boosters should not persist through death - they should instead come in one hour, 6 hour, 12 hour, one day, one week, and one month increments. This allows PvP players to utilize such a gift, but at the same time lose the bonus if not careful.
Even then, would a one month booster user then not PvP for a month? The fact is these items would be most effecient with the long-use ones: i.e. four 6 hour boosters cost more in materials (and thus price) than a single day-long booster.
Isn't that exactly the sort of resistance that the OP is trying to remove? The idea that PVP should be cheaper, and more immediately available. Your amendment works well for existing PVP players who can juggle cost/benefit/risk, but maintains the same barrier to primarily highsec players wanting occasional PVP.
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foksieloy
Rockets ponies and rainbows
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Posted - 2011.07.11 12:36:00 -
[73]
I like the general flavor of the idea, even though the details should be fleshed out more.
A cautious support.
_______________________
The best thing in EvE is Barrage M. |
Ranka Mei
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.07.11 13:57:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Darth Helmat
Isn't that exactly the sort of resistance that the OP is trying to remove? The idea that PVP should be cheaper, and more immediately available. Your amendment works well for existing PVP players who can juggle cost/benefit/risk, but maintains the same barrier to primarily highsec players wanting occasional PVP.
Exactly. I think CCP is continually thinking the wrong way about this. Their rationale is, "Not enough peeps in 0.0? Nerf highsec, and buff lowsec." Like recent plans to move all ice-mining (!) to lowsec only. Sigh.
I don't think it works that way, though. You only help to make richer super 0.0 Alliances even richer. Instead, if you want folks to go to lowsec/nullsec, make it easier for them to do so. Like allowing 2x clone jumps per day, for instance, or the above proposal.
--
"All your monies AUR belong to us." -- CCP |
Darth Helmat
|
Posted - 2011.07.11 14:10:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: Darth Helmat
Isn't that exactly the sort of resistance that the OP is trying to remove? The idea that PVP should be cheaper, and more immediately available. Your amendment works well for existing PVP players who can juggle cost/benefit/risk, but maintains the same barrier to primarily highsec players wanting occasional PVP.
Exactly. I think CCP is continually thinking the wrong way about this. Their rationale is, "Not enough peeps in 0.0? Nerf highsec, and buff lowsec." Like recent plans to move all ice-mining (!) to lowsec only. Sigh.
I don't think it works that way, though. You only help to make richer super 0.0 Alliances even richer. Instead, if you want folks to go to lowsec/nullsec, make it easier for them to do so. Like allowing 2x clone jumps per day, for instance, or the above proposal.
Fundamental problem is the risk transition, not the reward transition. CCP only seem to have one shaped peg to try to batter into numerous shapes of hole. 
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Portmanteau
Gallente
CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2011.07.11 14:33:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Darth Helmat
CCP only seem to have one shaped peg to try to batter into numerous shapes of hole.
Don't we all have that problem ? 
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Tekashi Kovacs
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Posted - 2011.07.11 18:08:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Tekashi Kovacs on 11/07/2011 18:08:29
The only part I disagree is leaving 1-5 for pirate implant purpose only.
Much better solution would be switching pirate implants into 6-10 slots (and eventually boosting their effect to compensate?)
Because otherwise, having 5 slots just so 1% of population can use them, doesnt make sense to me.
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Omira Tan
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Posted - 2011.07.11 20:59:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Tekashi Kovacs
Edited by: Tekashi Kovacs on 11/07/2011 18:08:29
The only part I disagree is leaving 1-5 for pirate implant purpose only.
Much better solution would be switching pirate implants into 6-10 slots (and eventually boosting their effect to compensate?)
Because otherwise, having 5 slots just so 1% of population can use them, doesnt make sense to me.
Um. no; kinda using 6-10 for other purposes.
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Icke Himal
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Posted - 2011.07.12 12:20:00 -
[79]
-1
This is the ballance:
Originally by: SomeoneStrange
You can't force all the empire carebears out to null sec. Quite a few of them simply avoid it on principle.
At the same time, I quite like the fact that when destroying someone's pod, I could potentially be wiping out billions of ISK.
Yes, carebears may have their skills train faster than 0.0 pilots - however null sec ratting and null sec mining pull in ISK vastly faster than running Level 4 Missions in empire space, and mining in empire space.
Because of this, most empire carebears never will actually get a full set of +5's, because the cost is simply out of the question.
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Llambda
Space Llama Industries
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Posted - 2011.07.12 16:12:00 -
[80]
"Dear CCP, I want all of the benefits and none of the risks, please implement k thx."
This is clearly a have/eat cake suggestion.
If you care about your training speed so much, odds are you're optimizing to two spiked stats, which means you don't need a full rack of attribute implants - you only need two, at which point even +5s become a reasonable expense, and +4s become downright trivial.
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Diaz Rezal
DON'T DO IT DAD
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Posted - 2011.07.12 16:58:00 -
[81]
I like the negativity of the people that don't see the point, or maybe they do unsterstand it, but refuse to see why it's needed because it MIGHT be that THEY lose their faulty advantage.
Screw the haters, I want this.
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Ralack
RalJin Industries
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Posted - 2011.07.12 20:22:00 -
[82]
Great idea. Hi-sec'ers aren't screwed around, PVP'ers get a more sustainable method for skill boosting, and a new high volume market opportunity is created out of the deal. There is probably a downside but I'm not seeing it.
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Karash Amerius
Sutoka
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Posted - 2011.07.12 21:51:00 -
[83]
If you actually think about it, it makes sense.
promotes more "interaction", etc...
=========================
Karash Amerius - Operative - Sutoka
Fighting Broke - A Eve Online Blog
========================= |
Darryl Ward
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 01:20:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
Originally by: Sarrgon
I like this idea also, I know of many, including myself that while in our "good clones" will almost always shy away from pvp to avoid the possiblility of getting podded. Though I can see a few variations of this, upgraded clone insurance that includes implants, but still is very much affordable or like with the learning skills, remove them and apply them to everyone in the game.
Now of course I would keep the Skill hardwiring implants the same. But I think a change of the attribute implants would help more people pvp and less paranoid of losing the +5's.
While I am very interested in where this discussion is going to end up, I am skeptical.
The unsaid 'con' of this proposal is that although people would PvP more, each PvP win/loss would be worth less, therefore dulling an otherwise exhilarating (or painful) experience, to something about the excitement level of a chess game. Nothing wagered, nothing won, means less of an experience in general. Personally, if I blow up an enemy, the experience is made sweet in me knowing that he lost a lot of isk in implants. Now if implants were cheap or free, or insured, then that takes a lot of the fun out of the kill.
How do you propose to mitigate that side effect?
You still blow up their ship. Possibly catch the pod. Unless they convo you and cry about lost implants, you don't know that you got anything else. That is, unless you always imagine that you're podding people with a full rack of +5's everytime.
You seem to like PvP, why don't you want moar?
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Reaver Glitterstim
Legio Geminatus
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Posted - 2011.07.29 10:35:00 -
[85]
I don't know how you got so much support, but I think your proposal is absurd. Firstly, your point that someone with implants wouldn't want to jump clone out to do nullsec roams has debunked itself. People with implants CAN and DO go outside of highsec...by using jump clones. I do it all the time. Having implants in most of the time is great, but taking a few hours (weeks even) in nullsec can totally be worth it.
It's all choosing how best you use what you have. Removing the implants removes that choice. You may as well force players to fly the race of ship that matches their character, that'll make everything a lot simpler.
--
Thousand Papercuts Project |
Elder Ozzian
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Posted - 2011.07.29 18:31:00 -
[86]
I dont only like this, i love this!
More money-circulation, more things to craft and possible more null-sec visits from alot of players. But please, make those ladar-cites spawn in lowsec more often.
+1
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Lady Spank
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.07.29 18:49:00 -
[87]
~~~
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Kaelie Onren
|
Posted - 2011.07.29 20:09:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Comy 1
Edited by: Comy 1 on 10/07/2011 23:38:20
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
Originally by: Comy 1
The side effect will be mitigated by the fact that alot more people will see the use of pirate implants in slot 1-5, especially the low grade ones that are very cost effective for their bonus. What stops alot of people from using them today is the weak +2 attribute bonus.
If these are so cost effective (I read as meaning cheap) then how exactly does that give me the satisfaction that I just wasted $$$ of my enemies isk?
Cost effective != cheap. It means that they give a good bonus to your ships considering their price. If you want to feel satisfaction about podding someone you will probably do that more believing someone had pirate implants.
This idea is not perfect since I'm not a person working with game balance but as you can see in the thread people like what the idea stands for. Character progression is the core of any MMORPG, and the fact that the people experiencing combat and/or explore the world should be penalized is in my oppinion wrong. IN EVE IT'S CONTRAPRODUCTIVE TO DO THINGS THAT WOULD YEILD YOU MORE EXPERIENCE IN ANY OTHER GAME.
It seems like you have made it your personal crusade to keep talking down this thread. I'm all open for suggestions on how to improve the concept, but when you just keep trying to grasp at straws to talk it down, please just keep out.
I'm curious to know where you got that impression. I was just doing my due diligence in questioning oversights I see in the proposal. I'm a little confused though, at how you have gone from your original plan of
Quote:
- REMOVE ATTRIBUTE ENHANCING IMPLANTS COMPLETELY! -
to remove just the basic non pirate ones.
Okay, if we are to work with your new proposal (just remove the non pirate ones) then how does this solve your original problem of highsec people not wanting to go to null for fear of losing them? Especially when they are orders of magnitude more than the regular 1-5 implants? If I'm missing something, do let me know, but it seems a little in-congruent.
To more directly answer your perceived problem though, and forgive me if someone said it already, is to use jumpclones. They are easy to get, and any highsec person will get one for null sec playtime. I therefore counter propose that any perceived problem of highsec'ers afraid of nullsec, or nullsec'ers not training fast enough is not a real problem with jumpclones.
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Kaelie Onren
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Posted - 2011.07.29 20:15:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Darryl Ward
You seem to like PvP, why don't you want moar?
Yea! I've been presumed by many on the forums to be many things, but never PvP until now!  I'll add that to my collection of baseless accusations I have gotten. Truth is, I argue on the side of reason and balance, whichever it may be.
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Photon Ceray
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Posted - 2011.07.29 21:24:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Photon Ceray on 29/07/2011 21:24:44
+1
As a player who spent most of his time PVPing in null sec I have mostly used +3 and +4 implants only. the difference this makes over the 4 years I played could be well over 6 million skill points.
Carebears have all the advantages of safety in high sec, why should they also have an unfair advantage in training skills?
This will also be an additional reason for people to use pirate implants. I almost never use them because I don't want to downgrade from a +4 to a +2 due to the training time I will lose.
+10 if I could.
edit: also please fix implants, they desperately need it!
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Spacejugs
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Posted - 2011.07.29 23:39:00 -
[91]
I support this idea however I'd peraonally would like to see them removed completely without a replacement apart from giving everyone +5 in attributes. It would be the easier solution and would still have the same benifit without adding a slightly strange new mechanic to the game.
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Domenico Morosini
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Posted - 2011.07.30 00:18:00 -
[92]
I like it!
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Comy 1
Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2011.07.30 01:46:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
Okay, if we are to work with your new proposal (just remove the non pirate ones) then how does this solve your original problem of highsec people not wanting to go to null for fear of losing them? Especially when they are orders of magnitude more than the regular 1-5 implants? If I'm missing something, do let me know, but it seems a little in-congruent.
To more directly answer your perceived problem though, and forgive me if someone said it already, is to use jumpclones. They are easy to get, and any highsec person will get one for null sec playtime. I therefore counter propose that any perceived problem of highsec'ers afraid of nullsec, or nullsec'ers not training fast enough is not a real problem with jumpclones.
What I mean is that the attribute bonus on the pirate implants will be removed, while still giving their secondary bonus (extra armor, better shield boosting and similar). This way players will not miss out on skilltraining while jump cloning, even if they will be cripled overall in performance.
But from my experience people tend to be willing to be a bit gimped for a day, as long as it doesn't make their skills train slower. I don't want to use the old clichT of "you didn't read the post", but it seems like you missed part of my argument on why this change would make people more willing to explore the world.
Once again this suggestion is not some kind of "force players to do THIS", but rather remove some of the roadblocks stopping alot of players from experiencing different aspects of the game.
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Kaelie Onren
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Posted - 2011.07.30 03:35:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Comy 1
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
Okay, if we are to work with your new proposal (just remove the non pirate ones) then how does this solve your original problem of highsec people not wanting to go to null for fear of losing them? Especially when they are orders of magnitude more than the regular 1-5 implants? If I'm missing something, do let me know, but it seems a little in-congruent.
To more directly answer your perceived problem though, and forgive me if someone said it already, is to use jumpclones. They are easy to get, and any highsec person will get one for null sec playtime. I therefore counter propose that any perceived problem of highsec'ers afraid of nullsec, or nullsec'ers not training fast enough is not a real problem with jumpclones.
What I mean is that the attribute bonus on the pirate implants will be removed, while still giving their secondary bonus (extra armor, better shield boosting and similar). This way players will not miss out on skilltraining while jump cloning, even if they will be cripled overall in performance.
But from my experience people tend to be willing to be a bit gimped for a day, as long as it doesn't make their skills train slower. I don't want to use the old clichT of "you didn't read the post", but it seems like you missed part of my argument on why this change would make people more willing to explore the world.
Once again this suggestion is not some kind of "force players to do THIS", but rather remove some of the roadblocks stopping alot of players from experiencing different aspects of the game.
I did read it, but it was a long time ago, so maybe I forgot some parts.
Okay then, working with this proposal, I would ask why you think that people perceive the negative aspect of having their skills train slower? I mean, isn't it a choice any player makes to either use +5 implants in both clones or not? If they put the same implants in both clones there is no 'slower training'. Just increased risk of losing a set in null. But that is the price you pay for training the same speed you do in Empire. I mean, if you remove all the +'s from the implants, then everyone trains slower everywhere anyhow, but your response is to add + boosters. Okay, so my counter proposal then is why not add those + boosters, but leave existing implants alone? Why gimp somebody in highsec who has no intention of ever going to nullsec nor care to (hey lot's of play modes fit into this... FW, trading, R&D, carebear ratting) why are you gimping them?
I think that adding +'s to (new) boosters is a good idea (if not there already) so that people can use their non implanted jumpclones on boosters in null, to 'match' the SP training that they have in their +5 jumpclone in highsec.
Doesn't this make everyone happy, solve your 'issue', and most importantly, doesn't force anyone to do anything that they don't want? (or muck with existing mechanics)?
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Comy 1
Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2011.07.30 03:48:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Comy 1 on 30/07/2011 03:49:50
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
I think that adding +'s to (new) boosters is a good idea (if not there already) so that people can use their non implanted jumpclones on boosters in null, to 'match' the SP training that they have in their +5 jumpclone in highsec.
Yes I could see that working, looking at the boosters as a 1-day pass so to say for the player that use them for the intention of having a day out of their standard clone. As I stated earlier I'm not a game balancer but rather a player that want a change, so I suggested a big change. But truth be told I would be happy with the boosters being an alternative. That is you can use EITHER an implant or the booster, while the effects are non stacking.
And as someone else proposed earlier in the thread, if the cost of using boosters constantly for about 3 months or something would be about the same as buying an actual implant I would be happy.
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Rawbone
S3MINAL FLUID
Imperial 0rder
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Posted - 2011.07.30 04:47:00 -
[96]
+1
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Kaelie Onren
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Posted - 2011.07.30 05:26:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 30/07/2011 05:30:46
I guess then it's good that I am a game balancer. :)
If you change this proposal to 'add attribute boosters' then I will gladly give my support.
Edit: though I would also insist that the price of these new boosters be free floating market prices and dependent on what they are manufactured from. Or perhaps an LP store purchase at discount.
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Stan Smith
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Posted - 2011.07.30 08:35:00 -
[98]
/undecided
when i first read the post, i thought it was a bad idea. then after reading a few more posts, it started to make a bit more sense. for newer players, they buy implants of any quality, they often cant afford to keep replacing them too often. older players can circumvent this with jump clones, but younger players often dont have the required 8.0 standing to get one, therefore newer players are less inclined to pvp
on the other hand however, if implants were not seeded, but were player made, prices for these implants should drop and also have the same desired effect
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LittleTerror
MAFIA
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Posted - 2011.07.30 11:07:00 -
[99]
Not supporting this idea, implants are working just fine as they are, they give reason to pod someone and they are one of the ways you can really hurt someones wallet. |
Utsen Dari
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Posted - 2011.07.30 15:03:00 -
[100]
Proposal appears to be trying to limit the financial loss associated with death, by replacing a destructible item with an item whose effect is persistent through death and/or a cost over time un-associated with death.
Not supported. One of the appeals of EVE is that combat is risky and death is at least a little bit meaningful unlike in other MMOs.
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Kaelie Onren
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Posted - 2011.07.30 16:57:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Utsen Dari
Proposal appears to be trying to limit the financial loss associated with death, by replacing a destructible item with an item whose effect is persistent through death and/or a cost over time un-associated with death.
Not supported. One of the appeals of EVE is that combat is risky and death is at least a little bit meaningful unlike in other MMOs.
Perhaps it was originally such a proposal. (and I will be against if it that were the still the case)
I think it has become more of a proposal to add some boosters which give some implant like qualities but only for limited time, like a week. I was under the impression that dying will still lose you the bonus, but the booster would be cheaper than the equivalent implant that would give the same bonus, thus making it more affordable for new players.
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Comy 1
Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2011.07.30 18:23:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Kaelie Onren
Originally by: Utsen Dari
Proposal appears to be trying to limit the financial loss associated with death, by replacing a destructible item with an item whose effect is persistent through death and/or a cost over time un-associated with death.
Not supported. One of the appeals of EVE is that combat is risky and death is at least a little bit meaningful unlike in other MMOs.
Perhaps it was originally such a proposal. (and I will be against if it that were the still the case)
I think it has become more of a proposal to add some boosters which give some implant like qualities but only for limited time, like a week. I was under the impression that dying will still lose you the bonus, but the booster would be cheaper than the equivalent implant that would give the same bonus, thus making it more affordable for new players.
This is true that the idea has changed a bit over time. When I originaly made this thread I honestly came up with it as I wrote. With that said I will try to write up a new, more balanced and explainative thread that will hopefully be up during next week. I will also offer some of the people that gave me critics more than "I HATE THIS IDEA" the opportuinity to read my draft to look for holes that can be improved.
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Kaelie Onren
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Posted - 2011.07.31 05:52:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Mike Hysteria
Edited by: Mike Hysteria on 02/07/2011 16:48:07
You could maybe ask to CCP to create Boddy salvagers...
Whith those salvagers you could "Salvage" Implant-parts from a dead body in station with special Jove-facilities, and then... Recreate new Implants with the appropriate BPO + Materials you salvaged, coupled with some PI Items, to make PI even more used.
+1 Implants BPOs: 15Mio ISK.
+2 Implants BPOs: 30Mio ISK.
+3 Implants BPOs: 45Mio ISK.
+4 Implants BPOs: 60Mio ISK.
+5 Implants BPOs: 75Mio ISK.
So, you could make a cheap set of BPOs and make Implants easier to generate, and by then... More Implants on the market, prices goes down.
Mike aka Psy.
Just read this now. Interesting proposal, but must be balance vis a vis the loss of income for pve missioners. Essentially makes implant income for industrialists only. Which leaves only factional and navy ships as income for mission runners? Or am I missing something else?
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Max Von Sydow
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Posted - 2011.08.23 20:37:00 -
[104]
Bump
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Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD
Tragedy.
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Posted - 2011.08.23 20:56:00 -
[105]
I like this idea. Like drugs...the good ones make you smarter right?
NO BOOBIES LEFT BEHIND! |
Maz3r Rakum
The Imperial Fedaykin
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Posted - 2011.08.24 05:08:00 -
[106]
drugs
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Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
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Posted - 2011.08.24 10:04:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Better Than You
The current system works just fine. Not everything in this game has to revolve around PvP you know.
/not supported
yes, everything in the game is PVP... no, not all of it is necessarily combat.
However, no to the idea anyway. risk what you can afford to lose ... be that nothing, +3s, +5s, HG Pirate, whatever... |
Ere Colliseru
Etoilles Mortant Ltd.
Solyaris Chtonium
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Posted - 2011.08.24 13:24:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Ere Colliseru on 24/08/2011 13:24:19
Edited by: Ere Colliseru on 24/08/2011 13:23:49
Supporting with monthly payed booster (drugs) you dont loose by dying for a fair prices like current prices / 12:
+5 = 8 misk / month
+4 = 1,5 misk / month
+3 = 0,65 misk / month
+2 = 0,25 misk / month
+1 = 0,1 misk / month
also introducing 2 more steps for LP store via a pill which is sellable open at markets:
+6 = 30 misk / month + 25.000 LP
+7 = 100 misk / month + 50.000 LP
In order to boost low sec without nerfing high sec this could be sold at Pirate NPCs only and/or with LP at a lvl 5 agent earned by doing missions for them (similar to datacores but you really have to work in those missions)
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Rutilus Pallium
Minmatar
The Skunkworks
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Posted - 2011.08.25 00:58:00 -
[109]
Edited by: Rutilus Pallium on 25/08/2011 01:03:58
Great idea.
The existing +X implants need to be converted to SOMETHING that benefits people who use them so that players don't lose half a billion isk worth of implants to an update.
edit: dying should stop the booster effect, but it would be cheaper to buy a new pack of boosters than to buy new implants. I agree with the OP that this makes it easier for people to get into PVP as they aren't risking high-value learning implants (just do your PVP roams near the end of your booster cycle if you're still worried) and doesn't penalize people who live out in null and can't afford to risk that much isk on their pod.
Attribute booster times should be present in the API along with your queue so you can get alerts on when you need to pop another booster.
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Sephiroth CloneIIV
Vitriol Ventures
BLACK-MARK
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Posted - 2011.08.25 02:45:00 -
[110]
why not just just use +3 or +4 if in nullsec atm. Or even more cheep just with the two attributes you likely be training for (perception and willpower?).
Risk and reward, you could risk much less and get still a good bonus.
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2011.08.25 14:17:00 -
[111]
Podding mechanics in eve have always been terrible. Unless your in a buble, it just gives a *huge* advantage to people with better computers and internet connections.
I think *all* implants should be replaced with boosters like this.
-Cearain
Make fw pvp not pve
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1 |
steave435
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.25 15:32:00 -
[112]
Yes
Originally by: Val'Dore
Originally by: Alejan Gerakh
Originally by: Val'Dore
Considering that skills train based on the attributes that existed when they started training, this is a nonissue really.
Even if the booster expired once you started the skill, the entire train time for that skill would still evidence the boosted effect.
Ah, that helps. So that means when remapping, your current skill won't be slowed down if you are remapping away from its primary or secondary? If so, this greatly simplifies my issues around remapping time.
I still think attribute implants can stay in for those willing to risk it for the convenience of not having to keep using the boosters... but, as I said, they either shouldn't be able to use boosters, or only gain up to the current maximum bonus.
Well, I haven't personally tested it, but I think remapping forces your skill to stop progressing. You also have to stop your skill progress to add implants. But jump cloning out of your +5s while Carrier 5 is ticking down for the next 3 weeks, will not result in an increase of training time.
False. Remapping/changing implants/jump cloning (and any other ways to change your attributes if I forgot one) forces you to pause your skill queue while you do so, and the training time is also re-calculated after getting podded.
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Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
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Posted - 2011.08.25 15:55:00 -
[113]
Originally by: steave435
Yes
Originally by: Val'Dore
Originally by: Alejan Gerakh
Originally by: Val'Dore
Considering that skills train based on the attributes that existed when they started training, this is a nonissue really.
Even if the booster expired once you started the skill, the entire train time for that skill would still evidence the boosted effect.
Ah, that helps. So that means when remapping, your current skill won't be slowed down if you are remapping away from its primary or secondary? If so, this greatly simplifies my issues around remapping time.
I still think attribute implants can stay in for those willing to risk it for the convenience of not having to keep using the boosters... but, as I said, they either shouldn't be able to use boosters, or only gain up to the current maximum bonus.
Well, I haven't personally tested it, but I think remapping forces your skill to stop progressing. You also have to stop your skill progress to add implants. But jump cloning out of your +5s while Carrier 5 is ticking down for the next 3 weeks, will not result in an increase of training time.
False. Remapping/changing implants/jump cloning (and any other ways to change your attributes if I forgot one) forces you to pause your skill queue while you do so, and the training time is also re-calculated after getting podded.
however, getting podded (provided you DO NOT touch the skill training stuff) doesn't. Or at least it used to leave your SP/hour at the "with implants" numbers after getting podded (until, pausing/changing skills/jumpcloning/etc)
=========================
Originally by: CCP Games, 2010
Creation is so precious; and greed, so destructive. Your choices can make a diference
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2011.08.25 18:46:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Velicitia
Originally by: steave435
Remapping/changing implants/jump cloning (and any other ways to change your attributes if I forgot one) forces you to pause your skill queue while you do so, and the training time is also re-calculated after getting podded.
however, getting podded (provided you DO NOT touch the skill training stuff) doesn't. Or at least it used to leave your SP/hour at the "with implants" numbers after getting podded (until, pausing/changing skills/jumpcloning/etc)
This was true a few expansions ago, but they changed it. If you get podded now, when you awake in your cloe bay your skill que is immediately altered to reflect your new (lower) attributes.
I do like the idea of attribute boosters. Its an OUTSTANDING idea. However, what is to be done about the faction implants? Currently slaves and the like fill in implant slots 1-6. Removing them from the game will rightfully cause quite an uproar. Also, since implants are one of the major LP to ISK conversion tools, your might significantly hurt carebears with this change. I think all implants would need to be reworked with this change. Perhaps make implants slots 1-5 related to defense, and slots 6-10 related to offense, with attribute enhances limited to boosters (lol, go go mentat addictions!!) The other option, is that the drawback of attribute boosters, is to limit or eliminate the effectiveness of various implant slots!
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Manique
Caldari
Ominous Corp
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Posted - 2011.08.28 11:36:00 -
[115]
Yes, SP/H change when you get poded and it's without implants.
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