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Automated arena, tournaments and the low-ship-consumption-issue

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MeBiatch	Posted - 2011.07.06 01:35:00 - [91] Originally by: Olleybear Hmmm, breaking the sandbox = others cant interfere? Sounds like the Alliance Tourney to me. Devs move the praticipants to a Jove system noone else has access to. The tourney is popular enough they stream it over the net and call it Eve TV. From what I understand, people like it more than a little. I havnt heard any people complaining about the Alliance Tourney and how it sucks because the crowd cant jump into the middle of the fight. Shrug ok so other people can participate make it so you can bet arum on the fights!
0oO0oOoOo0o	Posted - 2011.07.06 01:44:00 - [92] How this fits into the EVE universe background story: "... To curb their aggressive tendencies, the Caldari actively pursue and sponsor a range of sporting activities. Many of these are bloody, gladiatorial-like competitions, while others are more like races. But whatever the sport, the Caldari love betting on the outcome, making gambling a massive industry in the State. ..." Taken from here: Backstory The Caldari maintain and secure the arena fights, so that they are fought by the rules of the competition ... how does this break the sandbox ? Outside the arena you still can do what you like and no one is forced to participate, there are not even rewards for it except of vanity (in terms of having a high rank or so).
Mister Smithington	Posted - 2011.07.06 01:50:00 - [93] Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o How this fits into the EVE universe background story: "... To curb their aggressive tendencies, the Caldari actively pursue and sponsor a range of sporting activities. Many of these are bloody, gladiatorial-like competitions, while others are more like races. But whatever the sport, the Caldari love betting on the outcome, making gambling a massive industry in the State. ..." Taken from here: Backstory The Caldari maintain and secure the arena fights, so that they are fought by the rules of the competition ... how does this break the sandbox ? Outside the arena you still can do what you like and no one is forced to participate, there are not even rewards for it except of vanity (in terms of having a high rank or so). The characters of the various bits of lore don't break the sandbox because they don't participate in it. Seriously, man. Can you not see the difference between the NPCs that we assume are running around down on the planets and the players playing the game? That would be like me saying the game Guild Wars is named after a piece of their lore where various guilds fought each other and nearly tore their homelands apart, and so therefore Guild Wars is about massive open-world battles.
Amber Villaneous	Posted - 2011.07.06 02:14:00 - [94] Why is it a WoW kiddie thing because two(2v2 3v3 4v4...) people want to enter the ring with one leaving in a pod? Why is it hard to fathom that some NPC organization could set up death matches? Could very well be some good fights instead of ridiculous meta-gamed alliance tourneys once a year.
Lady Spank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2011.07.06 02:16:00 - [95] I go sleep for a few hours and this thread gets 3 pages of tripe? Blah blah, carebears are risk averse and think this is a good idea. Get over it, CCP are simply not going to implement this crap. Cry all you like, I stated why on page 1 already. ~~~
Mars Theran Caldari EVE Rogues EVE Rogues Alliance	Posted - 2011.07.06 02:42:00 - [96] Automated instances would just provide a catalogue of kills for someone to record and take advantage of by supplying the market with the appropriate ships and mods. It's far to predictable, and instanced space is very un-EVE-like. Originally by: CCP Abathur Artwork in EVE, as you've noticed, is serious business.
MeBiatch	Posted - 2011.07.06 02:49:00 - [97] Originally by: Lady Spank I go sleep for a few hours and this thread gets 3 pages of tripe? Blah blah, carebears are risk averse and think this is a good idea. Get over it, CCP are simply not going to implement this crap. Cry all you like, I stated why on page 1 already. i do not get you're beefcakes... there is such things called war! you war deck alliances/corps for a week... why not have a personal sanction war between you and someone else? but why make the length of said war just one week? make the time variable... or how about you want to set best of 5 so you set length 5 hours and max kills best 3/5, plus make the bet $50 million isk each member in the duel... this would make pvp fun for allot of people who would never go out on pvp... which is a considerable large amount of eves population... this by no way would mess with the sandbox because those who do not want to use don't have to... its all about choice...
Uuali	Posted - 2011.07.06 02:52:00 - [98] Sad to say CCP has already decided how to handle this problem. Monocles! Forget in-game economy and just sell stuff for real cash. Easy! Sorry to troll, but I really think this is their solution. I see no valid evidence to the contrary at this point.
Olleybear Minmatar I R' Carebear	Posted - 2011.07.06 02:56:00 - [99] Originally by: Lady Spank Blah blah, carebears are risk averse and think this is a good idea. Ships blow up, possible pod kill, people like the idea of risking ship and pod for vanity with betting pools on the outcome. Doesnt sound risk adverse to me if stuff still gets blown up. I guess that means the alliance tourney is filled with risk adverse carebears according to your definition of risk adverse? And they get billion isk ships as prizes for the top spot.
Vasaczk	Posted - 2011.07.06 03:11:00 - [100] Originally by: Alara IonStorm Originally by: baltec1 Every single MMO that has added arenas has seen a fall in other pvp. Why hunt when you can get on demand fights and more importantly fair fights. For the joy of Hunting or the stats of World PVP Kills over Arena(I think the difference should be clearly marked) or because you want Territory. I do see PVP dropping, but real -5 Pirates will still be Pirates, Nullsec will still be Nullsec. Some may say why bother when I can just fight fair but those people would not PVP much anyway in Open World. The biggest thing you can do to prevent an Area from taking over a game is simple. Don't have Ques. If you want a fight you have to find someone to fight, if you want a 10v10 then find 20 people. Finally give no rewards or loot for it, have it be a pure sink for Minerals. A lot of games that have Areana's in them overestimate the effect on World PVP, if you can keep it from being press button receive fight the effect should be minimal and the fun greater. Slippery slope though.

Myfanwy Heimdal Caldari Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc	Posted - 2011.07.06 05:38:00 - [101] This thread is getting hijacked by Arena talk. As I have said before there's RvB which is as good as an Arena anyway. Challenges are made from one side to the other for a duel and they are met. That sounds like Arena to me and I haven't heard a single good argument for joining RvB. So, I think that those who wish to have Arena should join them - and it's good fun. The whole issue is how to have more ships lost. Simply we need to get more people into low-sec and null-sec. Or we need to make changes in high-sec so that CONCORD fails to work for a while. One of the only problems that I have with the security level of a system is that anything above 0.5 is safe due to CONCORD's presence. Yes, there are rats in these systems but in all practical purposes there's no difference between a 0.6 and a 0.9 system. A 1.0 system is much the same but there's no rats. I think that the problem lies with the fact that CONCORD runs magic ships; they get from somewhere to anywhere in seconds and are indestructible. They shouldn't be. I would like to see changes that CONCORD are no-drop loot ships, take time to get somewhere and to make hi-sec space more dangerous. Now, the other change that I would like to make it that if someone attacks someone else then they can't get out through any gates for a certain period of time, can't dock and can't log off to hide. The higher the security level the longer these timers can be. So, when someone attacks a miner, say, then the aggressor is locked into the system for a while and CONCORD comes after them. There should be an automatic bounty on the aggressor too, so that other players can change ships and chase after him. Furthermore, as I have mentioned before. I would have more rats gathering together now and then. The bonus being that they may get the occasional bot miner. But no more Arena talk, please. We have it. It's called Red v Blue.
Guillame Herschel Gallente NME1	Posted - 2011.07.06 05:59:00 - [102] I think a better idea to increase ship kills is to bring back mission encounters that occurred a little ways off of stations or gates, out in the open for passersby to see. Used to be that way. They'd have to change some other things to get missioners to accept these missions, like not informing the mission runner of the location prior to accepting it, or something like that. Mission runners used to accept those missions. They were quick and easy to do. They were also done before CONCORD got their boost up to godly status. My, how the player base has changed over the years.
VicturusTeSaluto Gallente Metafarmers MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2011.07.06 06:03:00 - [103] terrible idea. the players can organize this sort of thing themselves if they wish
Myfanwy Heimdal Caldari Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc	Posted - 2011.07.06 07:01:00 - [104] I would like to take the instancing thing further. Apart from the first few tutorials, when pilots are learning to fly through the SpaceSoup, I would like to see all instances in the missions removed. There is no place in EVE for these things.
Alara IonStorm Caldari	Posted - 2011.07.06 07:05:00 - [105] Originally by: Myfanwy Heimdal I would like to see all instances in the missions removed. There are no instanced missions. They can all be gotten too because they exist in Space, they can't all be warped to but you can get there. At no point is a copy generated that only one person can access. -- EVE Online is commited to $$Excellence$$
Myfanwy Heimdal Caldari Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc	Posted - 2011.07.06 07:10:00 - [106] Originally by: Alara IonStorm Originally by: Myfanwy Heimdal I would like to see all instances in the missions removed. There are no instanced missions. They can all be gotten too because they exist in Space, they can't all be warped to but you can get there. At no point is a copy generated that only one person can access. I get your point. However, all structures and the like magically vanish as soon as one hands in the mission totem. That definitely is wrong. Anyway, my point is that CONCORD is too strong and this stops incursions into High-Sec space where players should be encouraged to join the hue and cry to sort out the bad guys. Bring more EVE back into EVE and stop making High-Sec so ruddy safe. And this is me speaking as a High-Sec miner.
Xionis Zeshun	Posted - 2011.07.06 07:38:00 - [107] Originally by: Myfanwy Heimdal Lots of stuff. And suddenly EVE has no new subscribers who stick it out longer than a month because they're griefed every time they turn around. Making high sec more dangerous for established mission runners is all well and good (well not really, it'll still cause rage but I can see your point.) but the effect on new/inexperience players will be drastic. This is EVE. Give people the chance to annihilate a newb over and over and they'll be queueing up to do it. Established mission runners will be able to adjust tactics and fittings to adapt to having to be wary of a high sec attack. New players have no such options, and they will quickly lose interest in a game that amounts to some jackoff blowing them out of the sky every time they try to do anything besides stare at the CQ screen. And before someone gets on a box about how the newbs should just learn and HTFU, they won't. They'll quit, subscription retention will drop, and CCP will be in even bigger **** than it is after this whole MT thing.
Myfanwy Heimdal Caldari Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc	Posted - 2011.07.06 08:20:00 - [108] However, my proposals for having the griefer lockd into a system or a region whilst being persued by other players and a now non-indistructable CONCORD would mean that griefers would have to pay the consequences and allow new players to join in on the attacks if they so wished.
Rividien Calennand Gallente	Posted - 2011.07.06 09:52:00 - [109] Edited by: Rividien Calennand on 06/07/2011 09:56:03 +1 for the idea, I stopped reading at page 2 'cause i'm in hurry but i wanted to write my opinion too lol. Originally by: Taipion AND: There could be the option to have non-rated training-fights, that are "simulated" whereas everyone can choose whatever ship is allowed, and use it in the fight without losing any "real" value. no, this will kill the game 'cause people would use it to play without losing anything. i see the arena pvp as a good way to make people lose money. PvP arena --> ship destroyed --> need of money --> 0.0 pvp to get money. There will be an interest for who take part in pvp arenas in ensure themself a way to make money, such as conquer systems in conquerable where making money would be easier. but i got to admit that there would be some problems with an arena pvp system: one i can see is: Will people really go there and destroy faction BS when you can get easy fun by joining an arena accessible to only T1 frigs? T1 frigs are notoriously cheap(er), if players are going to use only those in pvp arenas the loss of money can be recoverable by doing just some carebear actions even in empire, destroying the need to get into 0.0 and "stronger" ways of money making. that said, it is not an easy thing since that would affect a lot of things in game. tho I'd love to see some pvp arenas implemented: fleet pvp gets boring sometimes, going around for hours without targets or for a 2 seconds fight when you scan down an easy win... Edit: thinking of it, that would be quite epic if an alliance is able to ensure themself some systems and make an Arena-like pvp tournaments player-leaded and moderated. yeah, that would be too epic XD
Taipion Caldari Operations Control United Pod Service	Posted - 2011.07.06 10:01:00 - [110] Originally by: Mister Smithington [...] Seriously, man. Can you not see the difference... You can¦t see the difference, do you? Why would it break the sandbox, if none can interfere in a arranged fight? That would mean, alliance tournament breaks the sandbox... But fortunatly, you don¦t have a point, you dont have any valid arguments, you just bump this thread all day, thanks! Ok now, does anyone have any REAL argument against Arena or Tournament like fights, simmilar to the alliance tournament, where you can bet on the outcome? There has not been one yet, at least not in this thread.

Lady Spank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2011.07.06 10:17:00 - [111] Originally by: Taipion Ok now, does anyone have any REAL argument against Arena or Tournament like fights, simmilar to the alliance tournament, where you can bet on the outcome? There has not been one yet, at least not in this thread. Putting ones head in the sand does not remove the counterpoint. ~~~
Taipion Caldari Operations Control United Pod Service	Posted - 2011.07.06 10:19:00 - [112] Originally by: Lady Spank Originally by: Taipion Ok now, does anyone have any REAL argument against Arena or Tournament like fights, simmilar to the alliance tournament, where you can bet on the outcome? There has not been one yet, at least not in this thread. Putting ones head in the sand does not remove the counterpoint. Saying someone is blind will not blind him. I read through all the (mostly fake/troll/...) arguments against it here, carefully, none was any close to be a real showstopper, neither are you.
Leda Faldoran	Posted - 2011.07.06 10:27:00 - [113] Originally by: Lady Spank Originally by: Taipion Ok now, does anyone have any REAL argument against Arena or Tournament like fights, simmilar to the alliance tournament, where you can bet on the outcome? There has not been one yet, at least not in this thread. Putting ones head in the sand does not remove the counterpoint. I guess, but as far as game breaking, or even game changing effects of such a system, I am not sure there are, in fact, any real negatives. Each racial capital has a non-instanced arena area. Participants are flagged. CONCORD, or some variation of it, would police the arena area and instapwn any aggresive non-participant. Teams could be made, fanbases would evolve, and good times could be had by all. I think it is a great idea.
Lady Spank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2011.07.06 10:32:00 - [114] Originally by: Leda Faldoran Each racial capital has a non-instanced arena area. Participants are flagged. CONCORD, or some variation of it, would police the arena area and instapwn any aggresive non-participant. Teams could be made, fanbases would evolve, and good times could be had by all. I think it is a great idea. Your proposal is more or less the same as current game mechanics allow where participants flip cans to have sanctioned fights. This isn't what people are asking for when they want instanced safe locations where the fights can't be interrupted. ~~~
Leda Faldoran	Posted - 2011.07.06 10:35:00 - [115] Originally by: Lady Spank Originally by: Leda Faldoran Each racial capital has a non-instanced arena area. Participants are flagged. CONCORD, or some variation of it, would police the arena area and instapwn any aggresive non-participant. Teams could be made, fanbases would evolve, and good times could be had by all. I think it is a great idea. Your proposal is more or less the same as current game mechanics allow where participants flip cans to have sanctioned fights. This isn't what people are asking for when they want instanced safe locations where the fights can't be interrupted. Instances, never... Sanctioned live arena tv in my CQ with associated OTB, yes please.
Taipion Caldari Operations Control United Pod Service	Posted - 2011.07.06 11:29:00 - [116] Originally by: Leda Faldoran Originally by: Lady Spank Originally by: Leda Faldoran Each racial capital has a non-instanced arena area. Participants are flagged. CONCORD, or some variation of it, would police the arena area and instapwn any aggresive non-participant. Teams could be made, fanbases would evolve, and good times could be had by all. I think it is a great idea. Your proposal is more or less the same as current game mechanics allow where participants flip cans to have sanctioned fights. This isn't what people are asking for when they want instanced safe locations where the fights can't be interrupted. Instances, never... Sanctioned live arena tv in my CQ with associated OTB, yes please. It does not make a difference if those fights would be actually instanced or not. What all would agree upon is, I assume: - Fights need to be free of interruption from outside - It does not brake the game or any pretty sandbox if 2 x 10 pilots are in such a "protected" fight instead of being docked Don¦t have everyone fly there to watch it, rather have (as I said) a spectator mode or a automated view so that you can, yes, sit back and relax in your all-famous-CQ and see if your bet was a good one. Again, are there any things, besides wannabetrolls, that would speak against this whole idea?
Leda Faldoran	Posted - 2011.07.06 11:38:00 - [117] Originally by: Taipion Originally by: Leda Faldoran Originally by: Lady Spank Originally by: Leda Faldoran Each racial capital has a non-instanced arena area. Participants are flagged. CONCORD, or some variation of it, would police the arena area and instapwn any aggresive non-participant. Teams could be made, fanbases would evolve, and good times could be had by all. I think it is a great idea. Your proposal is more or less the same as current game mechanics allow where participants flip cans to have sanctioned fights. This isn't what people are asking for when they want instanced safe locations where the fights can't be interrupted. Instances, never... Sanctioned live arena tv in my CQ with associated OTB, yes please. It does not make a difference if those fights would be actually instanced or not. What all would agree upon is, I assume: - Fights need to be free of interruption from outside - It does not brake the game or any pretty sandbox if 2 x 10 pilots are in such a "protected" fight instead of being docked Don¦t have everyone fly there to watch it, rather have (as I said) a spectator mode or a automated view so that you can, yes, sit back and relax in your all-famous-CQ and see if your bet was a good one. Again, are there any things, besides wannabetrolls, that would speak against this whole idea? I liked the idea of having, what amounts to, a giant Pos bubble in a system, (I would vote for one in each of the racial capitals), with access being granted based on a specific rules set, but actually run by players. I like the idea of new career paths and, if WIS continues to move forward, player owned and operated Sports Bars.
Taipion Caldari Operations Control United Pod Service	Posted - 2011.07.06 11:41:00 - [118] Originally by: Leda Faldoran ... Player owned sports bars with WIS... I fear this won¦t come soon, but would be nice as well. Again, there are many ways to actually implement the fight itself, whatever works is fine.
Lady Spank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2011.07.07 09:33:00 - [119] Originally by: Taipion What all would agree upon is, I assume: - Fights need to be free of interruption from outside - It does not brake the game or any pretty sandbox if 2 x 10 pilots are in such a "protected" fight instead of being docked Again, are there any things, besides wannabetrolls, that would speak against this whole idea? Having the fights be in a protected space is exactly what will 'brake' the sandbox, and is the reason why CCP will not implement instanced space. You can't compare it to being docked since you can't have a fight, run d-scan etc while docked and you don't always have the option to dock depending where you are. It doesn't even compare to cloaking up in a safespot. Suggesting anyone with a different opinion to you is merely trolling is hilariously pompous. ~~~
Tsumei Meyren Creative Cookie Procuring Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2011.07.07 11:13:00 - [120] This would quite literally take the sand right out of the sandbox. Yes, It sounds like a good idea for people because they'd get their pvp on demand, But it isn't in practice a good idea as it sterilizes pvp like mad. Right now pvp is entirely what the players make it, Ship balance is still wacky on several ships and the meta changes basically whenever someone works out how to abuse the slightly wacky meta more and more. A lot of what makes eve exciting is that you can't be sure if that guy has friends, you can't be sure he'll honor the 1v1, it's a free world full of player on player interaction in pvp, if you sterilize the format to just be "ships shooting ships" rather than all the meta that goes into whether or not they are a bait ship, or is that guy really that stupid, should I engage? etc. Basically arena pvp would make pvp a lot more boring for people who set small gang pvp as their endgame, and we'd end up sitting in arena queues in station where we can't spin ships waiting for the next chance to get blown up. Not to mention it kinda makes it more expensive to pvp aswell, as you'd lose ships much more rapidly under the typical AT combat conditions - Plus it loses the chance of one side escalating with a carrier or something. ( which usually ends up with carrier kill ) TL;Dr: Please don't steal ideas from WoW. -------------------------------------------------------- Creative Cookie Procuring [Girl.] Are recruiting!



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