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0oO0oOoOo0o
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Posted - 2011.07.04 17:36:00 -
[1]
In one of the recent interviews (either at last fanfest or at the tournament) a developer said, the EVE economy has a problem: people don't consume enough. Not enough ships are destroyed to fuel the industry and the economy.
A short analysis shows that he's right: Hardly any ships get killed in PVE, since it's predictable. PVP in EVE isn't fast, it takes a lot of time to find a proper target, that is willing to fight. Often fights don't happen even between combat-ready fleets that are hostile to each other, because one fleet has brought higher numbers or better/bigger ships and the other one prefers to run away instead of being slaughtered in a fight that they think they can not win. Therefore not many kills are happening in EVE compared to how many players are playing it for PVP. That's nothing new and always been this way.
How can it be fixed ? One approach was mentioned a couple of years ago at a DEV panel at fanfest:
CCP wanted to introduce automated tournaments (automated = no requirement of DEV or GM supervision) in an arena, where people can watch the fight and bet on the winner. Why was this idea (actually it was an announcement by several DEVS, they were even discussing the details) dropped ? Such tournaments could generate a huge amount of ship kills. Especially when it's not only group-vs-group but also 1-vs-1. Make a kind of E-Sports arena, give people a special rank or rating, which can be improve by winning and be lowered by losing matches (similar to the old Starcraft ladder system or the ELO rating system at games like chess (ELO).
With this we'd have additional fast-paced and easy-to-enter PVP, MANY additional ship kills to fuel up the industry, and new playstyles/careers, such as the arena-gladiator etc.
This is not a proposal, since CCP already had this in mind but dropped the idea for unknown reasons, also an arena was proposed many times in the past.I'd simply like to know, how does the current EVE community think about it ?
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B00T INI
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Posted - 2011.07.04 17:40:00 -
[2]
You are completely misguided and instanced arena fights will never happen.
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Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
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Posted - 2011.07.04 17:47:00 -
[3]
Pretty sure that arena system was a joke dev blog.
Though, in true CCP fashion... if the :metrics: support it, damn anything else.
...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala. |
0oO0oOoOo0o
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Posted - 2011.07.05 16:33:00 -
[4]
It wasn't an April fool blog, they discussed it at the CCP panel at Fanfest 2009 +/- 1 year. They wanted to replace the Alliacne Tournament with that automated tournament system. I wonder why they could not make that anyways, next to the AT, for the reasons given above.
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Lady Spank
Amarr
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.07.05 16:52:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o
It wasn't an April fool blog, they discussed it at the CCP panel at Fanfest 2009 +/- 1 year. They wanted to replace the Alliacne Tournament with that automated tournament system. I wonder why they could not make that anyways, next to the AT, for the reasons given above.
There was discussion of automated activity for the purpose of alliance tournaments. This has literally nothing to do with implementing safe, instanced player run tournaments. Such a suggestion has been made before several times and it is almost guaranteed NEVER to happen. Instanced activity is never considered to be a good thing by CCP. This is reflected in recent changes to unscannable ships since they effectively gave too much competitive advantage, or at the least, safety to those flying them.
~~~
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Jasdemi
Interstellar Whine Brewery
Monocle Overlords
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Posted - 2011.07.05 16:56:00 -
[6]
Why not? As long as people lose ships, it's ok.
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Myfanwy Heimdal
Caldari
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
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Posted - 2011.07.05 16:56:00 -
[7]
Was that not the point of Inception? Huge swathes of NPC stuff marauding through the galaxy?
We have in some belts three or four rats coming in at one time. There's no reason why twenty can't pop up and move from belt to belt every now and then.
Perhaps some of these wormholes may need to close too. Get everyone out into the open.
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Dallenn
Minmatar
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.07.05 17:04:00 -
[8]
Maybe PvP is not quite as fun as it used to be. Or ships are more survivable due to the HP boost, making hit & run tactics less succesful.
Also, CCP could introduce smaller stationary targets which 0.0 alliances MUST defend -> more fights.
Fed up with monocle wearing tyrants? Jericho Fraction |
Mister Smithington
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Posted - 2011.07.05 17:08:00 -
[9]
For Arena or Dueling content to come about in Eve, one of two things must happen.
1) CCP must give up on the sandbox ideal.
2) The pro-arena crowd needs to get off their asses, stop being lazy pussies, and build their own sandcastle.
I hate to say it, but after the Ishikone Watch Scorpion debacle and the MT furor, #1 looks to be the more likely scenario.
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Alara IonStorm
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.05 17:09:00 -
[10]
I would enjoy the convenience of it without loosing intrest in Open PVP.
I would want the Kill Ranking to seperate between World and Arena Kills.
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EVE Online is commited to $$Excellence$$
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Lady Spank
Amarr
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.07.05 17:10:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Jasdemi
Why not? As long as people lose ships, it's ok.
It inherently counters the ethos of eve.
Lets look at two simple possibilities of a secure instanced space:
- Can be used to hide from hostiles
- Can be used to remain in hostile space and gather intel
Once you start to consider how it can be abused, and then implement rules to counter them... ultimately you end up with "instanced safe arena spaces should not be implemented". There is literally nothing that can be done to stop them being abused in some way.
Regardless of the opportunity to exploit, they go directly against the spirit of a player run game where you already can have tournaments arranged by players.
~~~
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Slumbering Hawk
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.07.05 17:15:00 -
[12]
thumbs up for the idea
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Alara IonStorm
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.05 17:17:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Lady Spank
Lets look at two simple possibilities of a secure instanced space:
- Can be used to hide from hostiles
- Can be used to remain in hostile space and gather intel
Not if you have to be docked for it to start.
Originally by: Lady Spank
Once you start to consider how it can be abused, and then implement rules to counter them... ultimately you end up with "instanced safe arena spaces should not be implemented". There is literally nothing that can be done to stop them being abused in some way.
Cloaking Device... But seriously you can just start them in stations.
Originally by: Lady Spank
Regardless of the opportunity to exploit, they go directly against the spirit of a player run game where you already can have tournaments arranged by players.
The Agression Mechanics don't really suit this beyond 1v1's. CCP has made it easier to implement player actions before such as introducing Alliances instead of just Chat Channels into the game.
It doesn't have to be Instanced just Lock the Gate after the teams have entered. At that point it is still in open space and can be flown to, just not warped to.
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EVE Online is commited to $$Excellence$$
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Slumbering Hawk
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.07.05 17:19:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Lady Spank
Originally by: Jasdemi
Why not? As long as people lose ships, it's ok.
It inherently counters the ethos of eve.
Lets look at two simple possibilities of a secure instanced space:
- Can be used to hide from hostiles
- Can be used to remain in hostile space and gather intel
I don't see a problem with your list. sooner or later you loose a ship during combat there, or in space. Somehow, if you want to optimize your ship fitting for one, you're not optimized to do the other.
So its a Dead - Dead even outcome.
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Djakku
Pod Liberation Authority
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.07.05 17:23:00 -
[15]
Automated pvp instances would be literally the worst.
This is not a signature. |
Mystia
Gallente
Caldari Strike Force
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Posted - 2011.07.05 17:29:00 -
[16]
You need hi sec solar flares...
Every hour they lower sec status by .1
When the sec status gets to 0.0, then every hour they raise sec status by .1.
When the sec status gets to 1.0, then it repeats...
Any star can have a 1% chance per day of randomly going pulsar for 1-5 days....
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Rellik B00n
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Posted - 2011.07.05 17:36:00 -
[17]
Originally by: B00T INI
You are completely misguided and instanced arena fights will never happen.
you mean like MT will never hap....
..wait a minute!! 
.
2011 Thread of the year award
monacle wearers - the chavs of eve |
Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2011.07.05 18:00:00 -
[18]
Tranquility outright denied the code. Nuff said. But hey, I'm not subbed anymore so if you want to sail the game down **** creek, have fun.
_____________________________________
Haruhiist since December 2008
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Myfanwy Heimdal
Caldari
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
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Posted - 2011.07.05 18:12:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Mystia
You need hi sec solar flares...
Every hour they lower sec status by .1
When the sec status gets to 0.0, then every hour they raise sec status by .1.
When the sec status gets to 1.0, then it repeats...
Any star can have a 1% chance per day of randomly going pulsar for 1-5 days....
Though, why a star would affect a system's Security Level, I wouldn't like to suggest. But, your idea has good fundamental merit.
As an alternative, what about using this hacking skill to do things like to crash CONCORD's network in-system so that no-one knows what happened?
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Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
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Posted - 2011.07.05 18:16:00 -
[20]
Topic has been discussed to death here.
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0oO0oOoOo0o
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Posted - 2011.07.05 18:16:00 -
[21]
It doesn't have to be instanced. They could make a 3D arena in a kind of bubble, that does not allow shooting through or any other effects like gang boost for the time of the battle. Also I don't see any issue with intel and such, the arenas could be located in a special system, next to the arena bubbles there could be huge billboards which display the fight in the AT EVE-TV style. Or displaying the fights in the captain quarters monitor, and doing the fights instanced (actually not instanced but in a kind of deadspace place which can not be probed out, or warped to); that are implementation details and it's easy to avoid exploits and side-effects if the feature is introduced well. Undisturbed fights like in the AT, just without GMs or DEVs overseeing it, it could be done many ways. And an official ranking like this one: http://ratings.fide.com/top.phtml?list=men, so that we can see who are the top dogs - I'm sure this would generate a lot of additional PVP kills and additional fun.
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Myfanwy Heimdal
Caldari
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
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Posted - 2011.07.05 18:20:00 -
[22]
But that is more or less RvB.
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Mister Smithington
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Posted - 2011.07.05 18:20:00 -
[23]
Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o
It doesn't have to be instanced. They could make a 3D arena in a kind of bubble, that does not allow shooting through or any other effects like gang boost for the time of the battle. Also I don't see any issue with intel and such, the arenas could be located in a special system, next to the arena bubbles there could be huge billboards which display the fight in the AT EVE-TV style. Or displaying the fights in the captain quarters monitor, and doing the fights instanced (actually not instanced but in a kind of deadspace place which can not be probed out, or warped to); that are implementation details and it's easy to avoid exploits and side-effects if the feature is introduced well. Undisturbed fights like in the AT, just without GMs or DEVs overseeing it, it could be done many ways. And an official ranking like this one: http://ratings.fide.com/top.phtml?list=men, so that we can see who are the top dogs - I'm sure this would generate a lot of additional PVP kills and additional fun.
You're talking about giving those inside the bubble pvp immunity to those outside. If you don't see the problem with this, you probably hate Eve.
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Lady Spank
Amarr
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.07.05 18:23:00 -
[24]
Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o
It doesn't have to be instanced. They could make a 3D arena in a kind of bubble, that does not allow shooting through or any other effects like gang boost for the time of the battle.
Undisturbed fights like in the AT, just without GMs or DEVs overseeing it,
How is this NOT instanced environment PVP?
~~~
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Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2011.07.05 18:27:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Doddy on 05/07/2011 18:27:00
Originally by: Myfanwy Heimdal
Was that not the point of Inception? Huge swathes of NPC stuff marauding through the galaxy?
He's still in the dream!! aahahah
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Alara IonStorm
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.05 18:29:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Lady Spank
How is this NOT instanced environment PVP?
Because an Instance is a Copy that is made so multiple people can run the same content in the same area. Like an Accel Gate that brought you to a section of Space where there is a Complex but while you are running it so are 10 other people you can not see fighting other rats you can't see in the same space.
Locking a person out of an area is not Instancing it.
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EVE Online is commited to $$Excellence$$
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Lady Spank
Amarr
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.07.05 18:31:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Alara IonStorm
Originally by: Lady Spank
How is this NOT instanced environment PVP?
Because an Instance is a Copy that is made so multiple people can run the same content in the same area. Like an Accel Gate that brought you to a section of Space where there is a Complex but while you are running it so are 10 other people you can not see fighting other rats you can't see in the same space.
Locking a person out of an area is not Instancing it.
Semantics aside, however you view the terminology. CCP will simply NEVER implement a system where you can be inaccessible outside of docking in a station.
~~~
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Barkaial Starfinder
Minmatar
The Kairos Syndicate
Transmission Lost
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Posted - 2011.07.05 18:32:00 -
[28]
No.
Join RvB, as someone said already.
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Alara IonStorm
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.05 18:32:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 05/07/2011 18:32:10
Originally by: Lady Spank
Semantics aside, however you view the terminology. CCP will simply NEVER implement a system where you can be inaccessible outside of docking in a station.
Cloaking in a Safespot.
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EVE Online is commited to $$Excellence$$
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0oO0oOoOo0o
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Posted - 2011.07.05 18:34:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Mister Smithington
You're talking about giving those inside the bubble pvp immunity to those outside. If you don't see the problem with this, you probably hate Eve.
I don't see a problem if it's implemented well. No, you can't just enter in a ranked battle with someone somewhere in lowsec, when you're hotdropped.
Example: you wait in station in your arena-combat-ship and sign up for a fight, the system then selects someone who signed up and is waiting as well, so that you don't know who you are fighting against and what ship he is in (maybe limited to ship classes, so that you only get a BS or BC opponent if you're in BS yourself) until the beginning of the fight.
Then both enter the arena, the countdown starts, the last ship that remains on the field wins, or it's a draw. After that both are docked in station again (1 in ship, 1 in pod). Where exactly is the problem ? Compare that to 2 players in highsec that are fighting a duel, both are in NPC corps. The only difference is, that they can be suicide-ganked (which makes no sense), - is that the game breaking difference, you are talking about ? And who exactly is affected in a negative way by this "problem" ?
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