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0oO0oOoOo0o	Posted - 2011.07.04 17:36:00 - [1] In one of the recent interviews (either at last fanfest or at the tournament) a developer said, the EVE economy has a problem: people don't consume enough. Not enough ships are destroyed to fuel the industry and the economy. A short analysis shows that he's right: Hardly any ships get killed in PVE, since it's predictable. PVP in EVE isn't fast, it takes a lot of time to find a proper target, that is willing to fight. Often fights don't happen even between combat-ready fleets that are hostile to each other, because one fleet has brought higher numbers or better/bigger ships and the other one prefers to run away instead of being slaughtered in a fight that they think they can not win. Therefore not many kills are happening in EVE compared to how many players are playing it for PVP. That's nothing new and always been this way. How can it be fixed ? One approach was mentioned a couple of years ago at a DEV panel at fanfest: CCP wanted to introduce automated tournaments (automated = no requirement of DEV or GM supervision) in an arena, where people can watch the fight and bet on the winner. Why was this idea (actually it was an announcement by several DEVS, they were even discussing the details) dropped ? Such tournaments could generate a huge amount of ship kills. Especially when it's not only group-vs-group but also 1-vs-1. Make a kind of E-Sports arena, give people a special rank or rating, which can be improve by winning and be lowered by losing matches (similar to the old Starcraft ladder system or the ELO rating system at games like chess (ELO). With this we'd have additional fast-paced and easy-to-enter PVP, MANY additional ship kills to fuel up the industry, and new playstyles/careers, such as the arena-gladiator etc. This is not a proposal, since CCP already had this in mind but dropped the idea for unknown reasons, also an arena was proposed many times in the past.I'd simply like to know, how does the current EVE community think about it ?
B00T INI	Posted - 2011.07.04 17:40:00 - [2] You are completely misguided and instanced arena fights will never happen.
Patient 2428190 DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School	Posted - 2011.07.04 17:47:00 - [3] Pretty sure that arena system was a joke dev blog. Though, in true CCP fashion... if the :metrics: support it, damn anything else. ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala.
0oO0oOoOo0o	Posted - 2011.07.05 16:33:00 - [4] It wasn't an April fool blog, they discussed it at the CCP panel at Fanfest 2009 +/- 1 year. They wanted to replace the Alliacne Tournament with that automated tournament system. I wonder why they could not make that anyways, next to the AT, for the reasons given above.
Lady Spank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2011.07.05 16:52:00 - [5] Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o It wasn't an April fool blog, they discussed it at the CCP panel at Fanfest 2009 +/- 1 year. They wanted to replace the Alliacne Tournament with that automated tournament system. I wonder why they could not make that anyways, next to the AT, for the reasons given above. There was discussion of automated activity for the purpose of alliance tournaments. This has literally nothing to do with implementing safe, instanced player run tournaments. Such a suggestion has been made before several times and it is almost guaranteed NEVER to happen. Instanced activity is never considered to be a good thing by CCP. This is reflected in recent changes to unscannable ships since they effectively gave too much competitive advantage, or at the least, safety to those flying them. ~~~
Jasdemi Interstellar Whine Brewery Monocle Overlords	Posted - 2011.07.05 16:56:00 - [6] Why not? As long as people lose ships, it's ok.
Myfanwy Heimdal Caldari Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc	Posted - 2011.07.05 16:56:00 - [7] Was that not the point of Inception? Huge swathes of NPC stuff marauding through the galaxy? We have in some belts three or four rats coming in at one time. There's no reason why twenty can't pop up and move from belt to belt every now and then. Perhaps some of these wormholes may need to close too. Get everyone out into the open.
Dallenn Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2011.07.05 17:04:00 - [8] Maybe PvP is not quite as fun as it used to be. Or ships are more survivable due to the HP boost, making hit & run tactics less succesful. Also, CCP could introduce smaller stationary targets which 0.0 alliances MUST defend -> more fights. Fed up with monocle wearing tyrants? Jericho Fraction
Mister Smithington	Posted - 2011.07.05 17:08:00 - [9] For Arena or Dueling content to come about in Eve, one of two things must happen. 1) CCP must give up on the sandbox ideal. 2) The pro-arena crowd needs to get off their asses, stop being lazy pussies, and build their own sandcastle. I hate to say it, but after the Ishikone Watch Scorpion debacle and the MT furor, #1 looks to be the more likely scenario.
Alara IonStorm Caldari	Posted - 2011.07.05 17:09:00 - [10] I would enjoy the convenience of it without loosing intrest in Open PVP. I would want the Kill Ranking to seperate between World and Arena Kills. -- EVE Online is commited to $$Excellence$$

Lady Spank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2011.07.05 17:10:00 - [11] Originally by: Jasdemi Why not? As long as people lose ships, it's ok. It inherently counters the ethos of eve. Lets look at two simple possibilities of a secure instanced space: Can be used to hide from hostiles Can be used to remain in hostile space and gather intel Once you start to consider how it can be abused, and then implement rules to counter them... ultimately you end up with "instanced safe arena spaces should not be implemented". There is literally nothing that can be done to stop them being abused in some way. Regardless of the opportunity to exploit, they go directly against the spirit of a player run game where you already can have tournaments arranged by players. ~~~
Slumbering Hawk Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2011.07.05 17:15:00 - [12] thumbs up for the idea
Alara IonStorm Caldari	Posted - 2011.07.05 17:17:00 - [13] Originally by: Lady Spank Lets look at two simple possibilities of a secure instanced space: Can be used to hide from hostiles Can be used to remain in hostile space and gather intel Not if you have to be docked for it to start. Originally by: Lady Spank Once you start to consider how it can be abused, and then implement rules to counter them... ultimately you end up with "instanced safe arena spaces should not be implemented". There is literally nothing that can be done to stop them being abused in some way. Cloaking Device... But seriously you can just start them in stations. Originally by: Lady Spank Regardless of the opportunity to exploit, they go directly against the spirit of a player run game where you already can have tournaments arranged by players. The Agression Mechanics don't really suit this beyond 1v1's. CCP has made it easier to implement player actions before such as introducing Alliances instead of just Chat Channels into the game. It doesn't have to be Instanced just Lock the Gate after the teams have entered. At that point it is still in open space and can be flown to, just not warped to. -- EVE Online is commited to $$Excellence$$
Slumbering Hawk Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2011.07.05 17:19:00 - [14] Originally by: Lady Spank Originally by: Jasdemi Why not? As long as people lose ships, it's ok. It inherently counters the ethos of eve. Lets look at two simple possibilities of a secure instanced space: Can be used to hide from hostiles Can be used to remain in hostile space and gather intel I don't see a problem with your list. sooner or later you loose a ship during combat there, or in space. Somehow, if you want to optimize your ship fitting for one, you're not optimized to do the other. So its a Dead - Dead even outcome.
Djakku Pod Liberation Authority HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2011.07.05 17:23:00 - [15] Automated pvp instances would be literally the worst. This is not a signature.
Mystia Gallente Caldari Strike Force	Posted - 2011.07.05 17:29:00 - [16] You need hi sec solar flares... Every hour they lower sec status by .1 When the sec status gets to 0.0, then every hour they raise sec status by .1. When the sec status gets to 1.0, then it repeats... Any star can have a 1% chance per day of randomly going pulsar for 1-5 days....
Rellik B00n	Posted - 2011.07.05 17:36:00 - [17] Originally by: B00T INI You are completely misguided and instanced arena fights will never happen. you mean like MT will never hap.... ..wait a minute!! . 2011 Thread of the year award monacle wearers - the chavs of eve
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2011.07.05 18:00:00 - [18] Tranquility outright denied the code. Nuff said. But hey, I'm not subbed anymore so if you want to sail the game down **** creek, have fun. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Myfanwy Heimdal Caldari Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc	Posted - 2011.07.05 18:12:00 - [19] Originally by: Mystia You need hi sec solar flares... Every hour they lower sec status by .1 When the sec status gets to 0.0, then every hour they raise sec status by .1. When the sec status gets to 1.0, then it repeats... Any star can have a 1% chance per day of randomly going pulsar for 1-5 days.... Though, why a star would affect a system's Security Level, I wouldn't like to suggest. But, your idea has good fundamental merit. As an alternative, what about using this hacking skill to do things like to crash CONCORD's network in-system so that no-one knows what happened?
Sader Rykane Amarr The Dark Space Initiative Revival Of The Talocan Empire	Posted - 2011.07.05 18:16:00 - [20] Topic has been discussed to death here.

0oO0oOoOo0o	Posted - 2011.07.05 18:16:00 - [21] It doesn't have to be instanced. They could make a 3D arena in a kind of bubble, that does not allow shooting through or any other effects like gang boost for the time of the battle. Also I don't see any issue with intel and such, the arenas could be located in a special system, next to the arena bubbles there could be huge billboards which display the fight in the AT EVE-TV style. Or displaying the fights in the captain quarters monitor, and doing the fights instanced (actually not instanced but in a kind of deadspace place which can not be probed out, or warped to); that are implementation details and it's easy to avoid exploits and side-effects if the feature is introduced well. Undisturbed fights like in the AT, just without GMs or DEVs overseeing it, it could be done many ways. And an official ranking like this one: http://ratings.fide.com/top.phtml?list=men, so that we can see who are the top dogs - I'm sure this would generate a lot of additional PVP kills and additional fun.
Myfanwy Heimdal Caldari Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc	Posted - 2011.07.05 18:20:00 - [22] But that is more or less RvB.
Mister Smithington	Posted - 2011.07.05 18:20:00 - [23] Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o It doesn't have to be instanced. They could make a 3D arena in a kind of bubble, that does not allow shooting through or any other effects like gang boost for the time of the battle. Also I don't see any issue with intel and such, the arenas could be located in a special system, next to the arena bubbles there could be huge billboards which display the fight in the AT EVE-TV style. Or displaying the fights in the captain quarters monitor, and doing the fights instanced (actually not instanced but in a kind of deadspace place which can not be probed out, or warped to); that are implementation details and it's easy to avoid exploits and side-effects if the feature is introduced well. Undisturbed fights like in the AT, just without GMs or DEVs overseeing it, it could be done many ways. And an official ranking like this one: http://ratings.fide.com/top.phtml?list=men, so that we can see who are the top dogs - I'm sure this would generate a lot of additional PVP kills and additional fun. You're talking about giving those inside the bubble pvp immunity to those outside. If you don't see the problem with this, you probably hate Eve.
Lady Spank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2011.07.05 18:23:00 - [24] Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o It doesn't have to be instanced. They could make a 3D arena in a kind of bubble, that does not allow shooting through or any other effects like gang boost for the time of the battle. Undisturbed fights like in the AT, just without GMs or DEVs overseeing it, How is this NOT instanced environment PVP? ~~~
Doddy Excidium. Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2011.07.05 18:27:00 - [25] Edited by: Doddy on 05/07/2011 18:27:00 Originally by: Myfanwy Heimdal Was that not the point of Inception? Huge swathes of NPC stuff marauding through the galaxy? He's still in the dream!! aahahah
Alara IonStorm Caldari	Posted - 2011.07.05 18:29:00 - [26] Originally by: Lady Spank How is this NOT instanced environment PVP? Because an Instance is a Copy that is made so multiple people can run the same content in the same area. Like an Accel Gate that brought you to a section of Space where there is a Complex but while you are running it so are 10 other people you can not see fighting other rats you can't see in the same space. Locking a person out of an area is not Instancing it. -- EVE Online is commited to $$Excellence$$
Lady Spank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2011.07.05 18:31:00 - [27] Originally by: Alara IonStorm Originally by: Lady Spank How is this NOT instanced environment PVP? Because an Instance is a Copy that is made so multiple people can run the same content in the same area. Like an Accel Gate that brought you to a section of Space where there is a Complex but while you are running it so are 10 other people you can not see fighting other rats you can't see in the same space. Locking a person out of an area is not Instancing it. Semantics aside, however you view the terminology. CCP will simply NEVER implement a system where you can be inaccessible outside of docking in a station. ~~~
Barkaial Starfinder Minmatar The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost	Posted - 2011.07.05 18:32:00 - [28] No. Join RvB, as someone said already.
Alara IonStorm Caldari	Posted - 2011.07.05 18:32:00 - [29] Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 05/07/2011 18:32:10 Originally by: Lady Spank Semantics aside, however you view the terminology. CCP will simply NEVER implement a system where you can be inaccessible outside of docking in a station. Cloaking in a Safespot. -- EVE Online is commited to $$Excellence$$
0oO0oOoOo0o	Posted - 2011.07.05 18:34:00 - [30] Originally by: Mister Smithington You're talking about giving those inside the bubble pvp immunity to those outside. If you don't see the problem with this, you probably hate Eve. I don't see a problem if it's implemented well. No, you can't just enter in a ranked battle with someone somewhere in lowsec, when you're hotdropped. Example: you wait in station in your arena-combat-ship and sign up for a fight, the system then selects someone who signed up and is waiting as well, so that you don't know who you are fighting against and what ship he is in (maybe limited to ship classes, so that you only get a BS or BC opponent if you're in BS yourself) until the beginning of the fight. Then both enter the arena, the countdown starts, the last ship that remains on the field wins, or it's a draw. After that both are docked in station again (1 in ship, 1 in pod). Where exactly is the problem ? Compare that to 2 players in highsec that are fighting a duel, both are in NPC corps. The only difference is, that they can be suicide-ganked (which makes no sense), - is that the game breaking difference, you are talking about ? And who exactly is affected in a negative way by this "problem" ?

Lady Spank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2011.07.05 18:35:00 - [31] Originally by: Alara IonStorm Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 05/07/2011 18:32:10 Originally by: Lady Spank Semantics aside, however you view the terminology. CCP will simply NEVER implement a system where you can be inaccessible outside of docking in a station. Cloaking in a Safespot. and how is that relevant to a sanctioned arena for pew pew that is free from outside influences? you can fit a cloak and face the consequences of that action, it has little meaning to the intention to introduce outside-element free combat. ~~~
Alara IonStorm Caldari	Posted - 2011.07.05 18:50:00 - [32] Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o Example: you wait in station in your arena-combat-ship and sign up for a fight, the system then selects someone who signed up and is waiting as well, so that you don't know who you are fighting against and what ship he is in (maybe limited to ship classes, so that you only get a BS or BC opponent if you're in BS yourself) until the beginning of the fight. Then both enter the arena, the countdown starts, the last ship that remains on the field wins, or it's a draw. After that both are docked in station again (1 in ship, 1 in pod). Where exactly is the problem ? Compare that to 2 players in highsec that are fighting a duel, both are in NPC corps. The only difference is, that they can be suicide-ganked (which makes no sense), - is that the game breaking difference, you are talking about ? And who exactly is affected in a negative way by this "problem" ? You can expand it without Incstancing or denying Mechanics. You can set one up where you choose the number of players who can join each side, 1v1 2v2 3v3 4v4 5v5 6v6 and so on then warp to an accel gate with a tag provided from the agent. You start by selecting your warp in distance at your teams gate and then warp into the area. The Area has a Bubble that doesn't effect Pods. No changing of the game mechanics required or complicated setups and rules. Just a place you can fight in if you want too. Doesn't have to give rewards it is just a simple way to sort out the problems with grabing a can on an undock as well as let you fight larger battles. Originally by: Lady Spank and how is that relevant to a sanctioned arena for pew pew that is free from outside influences? you can fit a cloak and face the consequences of that action, it has little meaning to the intention to introduce outside-element free combat. You said it yourself. Originally by: Lady Spank CCP will simply NEVER implement a system where you can be inaccessible outside of docking in a station. Cloaking in a Safe makes you inaccesable outside of a station at least for the most part. Originally by: Lady Spank it has little meaning to the intention to introduce outside-element free combat. You are right, but that is where our opinions differ, I do not think this is a bad thing to add. IMO this can compliment Open World PVP instead of damage it. -- EVE Online is commited to $$Excellence$$
Taipion Caldari Operations Control United Pod Service	Posted - 2011.07.05 20:32:00 - [33] Edited by: Taipion on 05/07/2011 20:34:47 Actually, I like the idea of tournaments run by players! And there is NO way this could harm the sandbox, the market, the game, or whatever, you just have to do it right. Whereas something is not 100% clear in my suggestion, damn, please, use common sense, dont become a troll! 1.) all participants must be docked at the same (grand tournament) station 2.) all participants must be in either of 2 fleets, whereas the respective FC can drag and drop 10 (docked) players from fleet into a (up to) 10-slot tournament-match-form (here could allready be a built-in-check to prevent the FC from selecting more ships(points) than allowed by the rules) 2.a.) possibly give the FC the option to select ships and players separatly and join them in the tournament-match-form 3.) auto-check all ships/modules/players/implants/..., so that the rules set for that particular match are fullfilled (to speed things up, not-allowed implants will be de-activated and officer/faction-mods reduced to their t2 version (and de-activated if fitting/skill is missing) for the time of the match) 4.) When both teams are good to go, transport the players and their respective ships into a instanced space outside the normal-EVE-space, thereby evading possible lagg, and make it easy for others to watch (I mean, have somewhere a list of running matches, and (when YOU are docked) the option to join as a spectator. 5.) Include the ability to create (contract like) bets on the outcome of these fights. Provide a separate, simple but usefull interface for that. 6.) Define some kind of Frame-toutnament, whereas each fight is evaluated to lower/rise the score/points/lvl of the respective team, like the afore mentioned ELO, or start tournaments in a way, that at the beginning of each ..."season" all teams must apply, and then there is a automated game plan set up, much in the way the actual alliance-tournament works, or think of something else First of all, there does not have to be a tournament around those "arena-fights", the possibility to bet on the outcome, loot the opponent :-) and prove yourself to be better should be enuff to start with. - by having the actual "arena" instanced outside the regular EVE-space, there is no need to figure out any complicated soloution - by having all participants docked prior to the fight (possibly in the same station), there is no possibility to exploit this mechanic - no matter if its just for the bets, the pride or for fun, this could burn a lot of ships, helping EVEs economy :-) - as far as I can see, there would be no drawback to EVE in any way by having such a thing - this should be quite easy to implement (have a new instance of a "mini-solar-system" limited to the arena-bubble for each new fight, build some nice menus and interfaces, and you are allready done AND: There could be the option to have non-rated training-fights, that are "simulated" whereas everyone can choose whatever ship is allowed, and use it in the fight without losing any "real" value.
Sonjaa VII	Posted - 2011.07.05 20:49:00 - [34] Originally by: Alara IonStorm Originally by: Lady Spank Lets look at two simple possibilities of a secure instanced space: Can be used to hide from hostiles Can be used to remain in hostile space and gather intel Not if you have to be docked for it to start. Originally by: Lady Spank Once you start to consider how it can be abused, and then implement rules to counter them... ultimately you end up with "instanced safe arena spaces should not be implemented". There is literally nothing that can be done to stop them being abused in some way. Cloaking Device... But seriously you can just start them in stations. Originally by: Lady Spank Regardless of the opportunity to exploit, they go directly against the spirit of a player run game where you already can have tournaments arranged by players. The Agression Mechanics don't really suit this beyond 1v1's. CCP has made it easier to implement player actions before such as introducing Alliances instead of just Chat Channels into the game. It doesn't have to be Instanced just Lock the Gate after the teams have entered. At that point it is still in open space and can be flown to, just not warped to. This. Just put it behind a gate that allows only pods. T.
Taipion Caldari Operations Control United Pod Service	Posted - 2011.07.05 21:05:00 - [35] Originally by: Sonjaa VII Originally by: Alara IonStorm Originally by: Lady Spank Lets look at two simple possibilities of a secure instanced space: Can be used to hide from hostiles Can be used to remain in hostile space and gather intel Not if you have to be docked for it to start. Originally by: Lady Spank Once you start to consider how it can be abused, and then implement rules to counter them... ultimately you end up with "instanced safe arena spaces should not be implemented". There is literally nothing that can be done to stop them being abused in some way. Cloaking Device... But seriously you can just start them in stations. Originally by: Lady Spank Regardless of the opportunity to exploit, they go directly against the spirit of a player run game where you already can have tournaments arranged by players. The Agression Mechanics don't really suit this beyond 1v1's. CCP has made it easier to implement player actions before such as introducing Alliances instead of just Chat Channels into the game. It doesn't have to be Instanced just Lock the Gate after the teams have entered. At that point it is still in open space and can be flown to, just not warped to. This. Just put it behind a gate that allows only pods. T. Too slow, too complicated, too laggy, too confusing (for the teams) Imagine the final round, having 10.000 Pods flying through the arena... No no, just leave the (spectators) toon inside the station where he/she is docked, and the option to quickly choose from a menu/list which game to watch, jump there, but just move the players view, and so that the player can look around as convenient as possible. And: have, just as I said, the "arena" instanced, there is no easier and more effective way that to make sure that it is not exploited and the fights are not disturbed in any way. Maybe, just to form it a bit more concrete, take a empty solar system, that is not reachable by normal means, prevent warp in there completely, place all fights at a good distance to each other, and dont forget to move everything out after the each fight, done. And maybe set up a extra node for it, like Jita has, depending on how many pilots are fighting there.
baltec1	Posted - 2011.07.05 21:10:00 - [36] Originally by: Jasdemi Why not? As long as people lose ships, it's ok. When they added an arena in SWG it killed off all other PvP.
AligatorVer1337 Ordo Drakonis Nulli Tertius	Posted - 2011.07.05 21:17:00 - [37] Instead of this, they should make incursions more agressive.. like gate camping supermofo's and also more on belts then just having 1-3 npc at belts and beacons you CAN warp to but don't have to. Incursions the way they are right now isn't anything like a "war" declared by the sansha's to empires. it's rather carebearing in a cooler way (in fleets).
Alara IonStorm Caldari	Posted - 2011.07.05 21:24:00 - [38] Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Jasdemi When they added an arena in SWG it killed off all other PvP. Yes but that is a different Genre entirely. EVE has a lot about it that is different. Null Sec Alliances are not gonna settle territory disputes over a good game of Arena, they are still gonna harass the hell out of the Enemy with Nano Gangs, Cloak Gangs and huge tower crushing blobs. Low Sec will still be the space where you watch your back, just not as many weekend warriors camping 0.4's with positive sec status. People will still Greif in High Sec cause they like to Greif. For the most part things would still be the same because we have reasons to PVP and Hunt. There is a good PVP foundation and a need for it as long as we fight over ISK, Space an Assets. Arena is just something extra for the lazy days. -- EVE Online is commited to $$Excellence$$
baltec1	Posted - 2011.07.05 21:29:00 - [39] Every single MMO that has added arenas has seen a fall in other pvp. Why hunt when you can get on demand fights and more importantly fair fights.
Alara IonStorm Caldari	Posted - 2011.07.05 21:37:00 - [40] Originally by: baltec1 Every single MMO that has added arenas has seen a fall in other pvp. Why hunt when you can get on demand fights and more importantly fair fights. For the joy of Hunting or the stats of World PVP Kills over Arena(I think the difference should be clearly marked) or because you want Territory. I do see PVP dropping, but real -5 Pirates will still be Pirates, Nullsec will still be Nullsec. Some may say why bother when I can just fight fair but those people would not PVP much anyway in Open World. The biggest thing you can do to prevent an Area from taking over a game is simple. Don't have Ques. If you want a fight you have to find someone to fight, if you want a 10v10 then find 20 people. Finally give no rewards or loot for it, have it be a pure sink for Minerals. A lot of games that have Areana's in them overestimate the effect on World PVP, if you can keep it from being press button receive fight the effect should be minimal and the fun greater. -- EVE Online is commited to $$Excellence$$

Olleybear Minmatar I R' Carebear	Posted - 2011.07.05 21:41:00 - [41] Originally by: Taipion List of good ideas. Acutally, by fleshing out some ideas of the OP as Taipion has done, a Gladiator style arena where spectators can place bets and watch matches via the CQ screen is sounding pretty good to me. Dont just stop with ship loss. Include the possibility of POD loss, just like Gladiators and just like normal pvp when there is a ship loss. There could even be News Items displayed on the CQ screen showing the current Top Solo Gladiator/Gladiator Team and a plaque you can hang in your CQ showing the Year you were top Gladiator. Hows that for vanity.
AligatorVer1337 Ordo Drakonis Nulli Tertius	Posted - 2011.07.05 21:45:00 - [42] Uhm forgot about this. I think in 0.0 ppl still fight a LOT. I'd say 95% of daily ship losses are occured in 0.0. It's about the carebear nation. Industry in nullsec is fantastic.
Taipion Caldari Operations Control United Pod Service	Posted - 2011.07.05 22:03:00 - [43] Edited by: Taipion on 05/07/2011 22:04:20 Originally by: Olleybear Originally by: Taipion List of good ideas. Acutally, by fleshing out some ideas of the OP as Taipion has done, a Gladiator style arena where spectators can place bets and watch matches via the CQ screen is sounding pretty good to me. Dont just stop with ship loss. Include the possibility of POD loss, just like Gladiators and just like normal pvp when there is a ship loss. There could even be News Items displayed on the CQ screen showing the current Top Solo Gladiator/Gladiator Team and a plaque you can hang in your CQ showing the Year you were top Gladiator. Hows that for vanity. Well, possibilities are infinite. And again, it would be pretty easy to implement, nothing new to create except some spectator mode and a few interfaces. I find it marvelous how people really work hard to find the drawbacks and cons to each and every idea, even if there are none. This would NOT hurt other PvP, why? The Arena would only do good! 1.) 0.0 Warfare is about space, and the value of it, -1,0 systems for farming and tech moons for the other 10b per month and moon, Arena does nothing here, Arena has no tech moons. 2.) LowSec PvP is for the grief, as [EVE = Grief], and for the cheap thrills ofc, there is no grief in fighting a fair match when all want to fight, so Arena does nothing here 3.) HighSec wars are for the grief, as again, EVE is grief, for the ransom, or whatever, Arena has no ransom, and no grief (see 2.), so no change here 4.) Suicide ganking is for the phat lewt, taking it from the stupid, giving it to the daring, Arena has no phat lewt, so no change here either 5.) WH PvP is for the grief, as oh well you know..., and for killing that t3 cruiser and looting the officer mods, or for defending your static C5 goldmine, Arena has no officer fit t3s and no static C5 goldmines, so no change again 6.) There are a WHOLE LOT OF carebears, who are too SCARED to even enter system boarding lowsec, for they know they would be blobbed to death, now, with the chance of a fair fight, isnt that a great chance to just step into the low-low-class of Arena and (thanks to the matching system) fight other carebears in say 2:2 or 3:3 Teams with t1 friggs that have a equally close to zero score?! No, honestly, many people that are scared of pvp would try it, if they knew it would be a fair fight. AND: Again, as I allready mentioned, one could have non-rated-training-fights with the chance to take any ship/fitting (for that fight only) and fight without losing anything. THAT would get more people into PvP, and eventually more ships popped. How could one get more win-win out of that?! Now do your best to counter these arguments!
AligatorVer1337 Ordo Drakonis Nulli Tertius	Posted - 2011.07.05 22:08:00 - [44] Originally by: Taipion Now do your best to counter these arguments! CCP will make it come along with 50 unidentified bugs. Counter this.
Taipion Caldari Operations Control United Pod Service	Posted - 2011.07.05 22:12:00 - [45] Originally by: AligatorVer1337 Originally by: Taipion Now do your best to counter these arguments! CCP will make it come along with 50 unidentified bugs. Counter this. How does this effect anything?! This is an MMORPG, this is extended beta forever. And btw, its not a bug, its a feature, YEAH!!! 50 new unidentified features!!! gonna logg onto Diablo2 to get some itendify scolls...
San Severina Minmatar	Posted - 2011.07.05 22:13:00 - [46] Arenas destroyed open world PVP in WoW & would do the same in EvE. Stop & think about what you're suggesting.
baltec1	Posted - 2011.07.05 22:19:00 - [47] Why would people who have no interest in fighting go and fight in arenas? They wont bring about more ship destruction, CCP would get better results by making PVE a lot more dangerous and random.
Lara Dantreb New Horizons	Posted - 2011.07.05 22:26:00 - [48] It's doable when Walk in Stations will be implemented. It could either be a very nice feature. Imagine there could be an arcade game in a hall. Instead of inserting a coin, you select a fitted ship present in your hangar and your opponent do the same. Then starts the fight, exactly like it would in space, expect that it takes place in a virtual area. Once the fight is over, the result are transposed to reality : the looser loses his ship and modules, the winner gets loot and salvage. You can't be podded. And there is no killmail because that's not real fight, but the winner and the loser score points in a ladder easily viewable by all. I like this idea because I easily imagine pilots with overinflated egos would duel often thru this arcade game, for stuff. Is this idea stupid or interesting ?
Alara IonStorm Caldari	Posted - 2011.07.05 22:28:00 - [49] Originally by: baltec1 Why would people who have no interest in fighting go and fight in arenas? You assume people don't fight because there is no interest instead of different concerns like Blobing, Gate Camping and People with a Bagillion more SP and Experience who live down there. Originally by: baltec1 They wont bring about more ship destruction, CCP would get better results by making PVE a lot more dangerous and random. No they wouldn't, it takes a day or 2 at most to figure out the system and plan for it. If someone feels there is a serious PVE Risk they do something easier till there skilled. Hard PVE is a joke. -- EVE Online is commited to $$Excellence$$
Julien Brellier	Posted - 2011.07.05 22:35:00 - [50] I thought Faction Warfare was originally supposed to ensure generally similar groups of opposing players could face of without any huge advantage to eitehr side. Seems that didn't work out too well.

baltec1	Posted - 2011.07.05 22:38:00 - [51] Originally by: Alara IonStorm Originally by: baltec1 Why would people who have no interest in fighting go and fight in arenas? You assume people don't fight because there is no interest instead of different concerns like Blobing, Gate Camping and People with a Bagillion more SP and Experience who live down there. And you assume there is a population of wannabe pvp pilots where there isnt one. SOE used the exact same argument for their arena. Turns out, they were wrong, just like wow, countless others. Every single time arenas have killed open world pvp because fights are simply easyer to get and contain zero risk of something unexpected.
Mister Smithington	Posted - 2011.07.05 22:45:00 - [52] Suggestions like this really illustrate who loves the sandbox and who's only here because they like spaceships. Your premise is flawed. People are afraid to risk ships, even in situations where they have the advantage. Thus, not enough ships are getting destroyed. If we force a mechanic where no advantages are guaranteed, certainly they'll risk ships then. Duelists and arena fanbois are pussies. They have been in every game. They're afraid of the unknown, afraid of changing circumstances, afraid of having to adapt. It's no different in Eve. When you tell an arena proponent to suck it up and go pick a spot in low sec to be the duelist hub, they cry "BAAAAAAAAAWWWWW, but we will get hotdropped!" When you say "fine, do it in empire" they cry "BAAAAAAAAAAAWWW we can't flip cans!" This is Eve, mother****ers. Eve doesn't reward the lazy and the fearful. If you can't be asked to put in the work to make it happen, or you're too afraid of the risks to give it a shot, it's not going to happen. CCP has already provided the sand. It's your job to make something out of it.
Alara IonStorm Caldari	Posted - 2011.07.05 22:51:00 - [53] Originally by: baltec1 And you assume there is a population of wannabe pvp pilots where there isnt one. SOE used the exact same argument for their arena. Turns out, they were wrong, just like wow, countless others. Every single time arenas have killed open world pvp because fights are simply easyer to get and contain zero risk of something unexpected. I play Battlestar Galactica Online which just introduced an Area, go on the map any time during Primetime and it is 20-40 Man Fleets of Strikes, Escort and Line Ships Seiging Outposts and tearing there way through the map. The idea that on demand kills world PVP just isn't there especially for EVE. Nullsec will still be fought over, there will always be Pirates in Lo Sec and people will start wars in Hi Sec. World PVP will live as long as people live in Space where shooting people is possible period. A few less might partake cause they like small time fights and as long as they have fun there is no problem with that. If you take a gang into dangerous Space people will be there and you can shoot them, not everyone is gonna yell we got Arena lets all run back to High Sec now. Some people will enjoy it others will not. If you are not one of the people who will enjoy it you can still run gangs and fight with other people just fine. I would use it, doesn't mean I won't go to Lo or Null or join Fleets in the Finder. Picking games that have a PVE Flags/Servers, Rewards for Arena as great as World PVP, an Arena Que and no incentive to fight anyone and Compare it to the Hyper Competitive EVE makes no sense. -- EVE Online is commited to $$Excellence$$
Olleybear Minmatar I R' Carebear	Posted - 2011.07.05 22:58:00 - [54] Originally by: Mister Smithington Duelists and arena fanbois are pussies. This is Eve, mother****ers. This made me lol. I am a pvper. I take on multiple opponents at once. I diaf a lot. And I love every minute of it except for the 4 hours flying around low sec looking for a fight, ANY fight, even a lopsided fight where I am outnumbered 5 to 1 or more. I like the idea of gladiator style fighting that I can place bets on as long as the ships always explode and there is a real possibility of pod loss. The reason arenas in WoW are popular is because it is the only way to get the Best pvp gear in game. Why the hell would a person pvp in wow outside of arenas if you cant gain anything from it or loot a corpse.
0oO0oOoOo0o	Posted - 2011.07.05 23:17:00 - [55] Originally by: Mister Smithington Thus, not enough ships are getting destroyed. If we force a mechanic where no advantages are guaranteed, certainly they'll risk ships then. Duelists and arena fanbois are pussies. They have been in every game. They're afraid of the unknown, afraid of changing circumstances, afraid of having to adapt. I'd say the majority of EVE player would love a good open-ended fight, they just dislike being slaughtered by a blob that has 3x the numbers. Also there is the thrill of the unknown, you don't know what your opponent will bring. It would work like rock-paper-scissor: for example a high DPS pulse Abaddon will lose to a EW-Scorp with cap drainers, the EW-Scorp will lose to a FOF-Drake and the Drake will lose to the pulse Abaddon etc. - there is enough thrill because of the huge variety of ships. @WOW-arena-killed-open-PVP-argument: No one is asking for some uber PVP gear reward for arena fights, which you get in other games. The reward for open pvp, such as system control, phat loot etc. remains, as people explained above (in wow you gain nothing from open pvp and have to enter instanced pvp to get any pvp reward at all). In EVE losses cost a lot of money, and an arena could generate fast-paced kills, so if someone does nothing else than fight in the arena, he'd burn a lot of isk in short time, unless he's really good - needless to say what this means for the whole ship and module industry. So in EVE this would be good, it would add a new type of gameplay, that does not replace existing forms of PVP.
AligatorVer1337 Ordo Drakonis Nulli Tertius	Posted - 2011.07.05 23:19:00 - [56] Originally by: Taipion Edited by: Taipion on 05/07/2011 20:34:47 Actually, I like the idea of tournaments run by players! And there is NO way this could harm the sandbox, the market, the game, or whatever, you just have to do it right. Whereas something is not 100% clear in my suggestion, damn, please, use common sense, dont become a troll! 1.) all participants must be docked at the same (grand tournament) station 2.) all participants must be in either of 2 fleets, whereas the respective FC can drag and drop 10 (docked) players from fleet into a (up to) 10-slot tournament-match-form (here could allready be a built-in-check to prevent the FC from selecting more ships(points) than allowed by the rules) 2.a.) possibly give the FC the option to select ships and players separatly and join them in the tournament-match-form 3.) auto-check all ships/modules/players/implants/..., so that the rules set for that particular match are fullfilled (to speed things up, not-allowed implants will be de-activated and officer/faction-mods reduced to their t2 version (and de-activated if fitting/skill is missing) for the time of the match) 4.) When both teams are good to go, transport the players and their respective ships into a instanced space outside the normal-EVE-space, thereby evading possible lagg, and make it easy for others to watch (I mean, have somewhere a list of running matches, and (when YOU are docked) the option to join as a spectator. 5.) Include the ability to create (contract like) bets on the outcome of these fights. Provide a separate, simple but usefull interface for that. 6.) Define some kind of Frame-toutnament, whereas each fight is evaluated to lower/rise the score/points/lvl of the respective team, like the afore mentioned ELO, or start tournaments in a way, that at the beginning of each ..."season" all teams must apply, and then there is a automated game plan set up, much in the way the actual alliance-tournament works, or think of something else First of all, there does not have to be a tournament around those "arena-fights", the possibility to bet on the outcome, loot the opponent :-) and prove yourself to be better should be enuff to start with. - by having the actual "arena" instanced outside the regular EVE-space, there is no need to figure out any complicated soloution - by having all participants docked prior to the fight (possibly in the same station), there is no possibility to exploit this mechanic - no matter if its just for the bets, the pride or for fun, this could burn a lot of ships, helping EVEs economy :-) - as far as I can see, there would be no drawback to EVE in any way by having such a thing - this should be quite easy to implement (have a new instance of a "mini-solar-system" limited to the arena-bubble for each new fight, build some nice menus and interfaces, and you are allready done AND: There could be the option to have non-rated training-fights, that are "simulated" whereas everyone can choose whatever ship is allowed, and use it in the fight without losing any "real" value. And there comes the point of CCP building way to many bugs for a single feature.. those "auto check"'s and fancy "arena-bubble"'s just wont work. Hell even simplest things like Speed info in hud doesn't work anymore. How do you expect to get such a complicated thing working?
Lilith Velkor Minmatar Heretic Army B A N E	Posted - 2011.07.05 23:37:00 - [57] The easy way to fix that problem is removing local.
Taipion Caldari Operations Control United Pod Service	Posted - 2011.07.05 23:41:00 - [58] Originally by: San Severina Arenas destroyed open world PVP in WoW & would do the same in EvE. Stop & think about what you're suggesting. Oh my bad, I forgt EVE is like WoW, and WoW has one huge server and 0.0 warfare that justifies risking Titans for there is so much ISK to be gathered and... YOU must have come from WoW, and there, you were probably a Troll. (I heard they can be chosen as race there) Originally by: baltec1 Why would people who have no interest in fighting go and fight in arenas? They wont bring about more ship destruction, CCP would get better results by making PVE a lot more dangerous and random. Look at the other anti-Arena posts here, because they would have a chance there, and no bad surprise buttseksblobbs... So you argument is invalid as well Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Alara IonStorm Originally by: baltec1 Why would people who have no interest in fighting go and fight in arenas? You assume people don't fight because there is no interest instead of different concerns like Blobing, Gate Camping and People with a Bagillion more SP and Experience who live down there. And you assume there is a population of wannabe pvp pilots where there isnt one. SOE used the exact same argument for their arena. Turns out, they were wrong, just like wow, countless others. Every single time arenas have killed open world pvp because fights are simply easyer to get and contain zero risk of something unexpected. Ofc you are right, as much as "WoW and countless others" are like EVE, see above. ...another invalid argument Originally by: Mister Smithington Suggestions like this really illustrate who loves the sandbox and who's only here because they like spaceships. There you got a point, still, one does not render the other impossible, there can be both. Originally by: Mister Smithington Duelists and arena fanbois are pussies. They have been in every game. They're afraid of the unknown, afraid of changing circumstances, afraid of having to adapt. It's no different in Eve. When you tell an arena proponent to suck it up and go pick a spot in low sec to be the duelist hub, they cry "BAAAAAAAAAWWWWW, but we will get hotdropped!" When you say "fine, do it in empire" they cry "BAAAAAAAAAAAWWW we can't flip cans!" PL, HYDRA, ... Originally by: Mister Smithington This is Eve, mother****ers. Eve doesn't reward the lazy and the fearful. If you can't be asked to put in the work to make it happen, or you're too afraid of the risks to give it a shot, it's not going to happen. CCP has already provided the sand. It's your job to make something out of it. You still realize that an Arena would not replace EVE as it is?! I doubt you got that one... And after reading your "arguments", please, next time at least try to think of what you write, before you do, thanks.
AligatorVer1337 Ordo Drakonis Nulli Tertius	Posted - 2011.07.05 23:45:00 - [59] Lock this thread, it's a manufacturebear who's not happy with shipsales and wants us to crash our ships in stars and planets so he can make more profit. Valid argument.
Taipion Caldari Operations Control United Pod Service	Posted - 2011.07.05 23:47:00 - [60] AGAIN: Anyone DARE to say, that Arena PvP would kill open world PvP is a WoW-Kiddy! In other games, this happened WHY? BECAUSE you could get exactly the same from Arena as from open world, where Arena is more convenient. Now, remind yourself again, this is EVE, and anyone who dares to say that again is a WoW-Troll.

Lilith Velkor Minmatar Heretic Army B A N E	Posted - 2011.07.05 23:49:00 - [61] Originally by: Taipion Anyone DARE to say, that Arena PvP would kill open world PvP is a WoW-Kiddy! Frankly, anyone proposing Arena pvp for EVE is a horrible WoW-Kiddy. Different game, different pvp. Deal with it.
Ghoest	Posted - 2011.07.05 23:52:00 - [62] I say this as someone who spends about 99% of my time flying the most gank proof possible ship - much of it in 0.0. And I almost never die. Theres a reason not enough ships are dying to PVP. PVP is suicide for most players - so they dont do it. Wherever you went - Here you are.
Alara IonStorm Caldari	Posted - 2011.07.05 23:53:00 - [63] Originally by: Lilith Velkor Frankly, anyone proposing Arena pvp for EVE is a horrible WoW-Kiddy. Different game, different pvp. Deal with it. Anyone who disagree's with anyone is a WoW Kiddy whatever your opinion may be. [Citation Needed] I like the idea of the mechanic cause I would have fun with it simple as that. Besides the Low Sec is now Completely Safe and everyone is holding hands in Null Sec Arguement I see no issue with this. If more people find it fun then hell throw it in if you want Devs. I would try it. -- EVE Online is commited to $$Excellence$$
Taipion Caldari Operations Control United Pod Service	Posted - 2011.07.05 23:55:00 - [64] Originally by: Lilith Velkor Originally by: Taipion Anyone DARE to say, that Arena PvP would kill open world PvP is a WoW-Kiddy! Frankly, anyone proposing Arena pvp for EVE is a horrible WoW-Kiddy. Different game, different pvp. Deal with it. Thats why we got the alliance tournament, right? Thats why everyone (well, a lot of people) loves the tournament, and would kill for playing that 10 on 10 like the big boys do? Think again!
Lilith Velkor Minmatar Heretic Army B A N E	Posted - 2011.07.06 00:09:00 - [65] Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 06/07/2011 00:11:08 Originally by: Taipion Thats why we got the alliance tournament, right? Thats why everyone (well, a lot of people) loves the tournament, and would kill for playing that 10 on 10 like the big boys do? Think again! Have you fought in the alliance tournament, or did you just watch it? I am asking because I fought in the last three tournaments, and while it is fun in no way does it compare to the excitement of a proper no-limits fight in the 'open world'. Rules make for mostly predictable fight dynamics and limit viable tactics too much. Honestly, what got me excited the most everytime was hoping I'd not mess up and start moving before the countdown. The actual outcome, apart from maybe two fights, was already decided by the time the fleets warped into the arena.
Mister Smithington	Posted - 2011.07.06 00:10:00 - [66] Originally by: Taipion . . . That wooshing noise you hear? That's my point going right over your head. I'll lay it out as clearly as I can. You are welcome to have your arena. But you must build it yourself. Eve is a sandbox, not a themepark. If you want something done, you have to do it. That's what makes it a sandbox and not a theme park. What is an arena? Organized PvP. CCP has provided you with the mechanics you need for PvP. It's up to you to provide the organization. I contend that those who cry for Arenas the loudest are those who are most afraid to risk what it would take to make it happen. Lazy. Pussies. Please prove me wrong. Please get your buckets and shovels and build the arena.
Alara IonStorm Caldari	Posted - 2011.07.06 00:24:00 - [67] Originally by: Mister Smithington I'll lay it out as clearly as I can. You are welcome to have your arena. But you must build it yourself. Naw I would really rather have the Devs Build it. Originally by: Mister Smithington Eve is a sandbox, not a themepark. If you want something done, you have to do it. That's what makes it a sandbox and not a theme park. Really, Devs added: Alliances Raid Content Missions Exploration Sites Wormholes Anomolies DED Complexes Concord Gateguns Faction Warfare Plexes Seems they add a lot of rides into the sandbox. Originally by: Mister Smithington What is an arena? Organized PvP. CCP has provided you with the mechanics you need for PvP. It's up to you to provide the organization. To much organization is a bad thing, that is why Game Mechanics can be added to help the process along like Faction Warfare. You didn't need it but they added it for you. Originally by: Mister Smithington I contend that those who cry for Arenas the loudest are those who are most afraid to risk what it would take to make it happen. Lazy. Pussies. Not really afraid to risk anything, I get invited to a gang or see one in the finder I come running. I often take my Cane or other small ships around as well. Originally by: Mister Smithington Please prove me wrong. Please get your buckets and shovels and build the arena. With aggro mechanics, GCC, the need to be in the same corp for a War to work then it lasts a whole week. Sure could use a game mechanic to focus the efforts of players even if it is an aggro Change only. I don't care who you think should build it, I got other stuff to do then to run around and handel this. If the Devs put it in I will not complain and will enjoy the Content. -- EVE Online is commited to $$Excellence$$
Taipion Caldari Operations Control United Pod Service	Posted - 2011.07.06 00:31:00 - [68] Originally by: Mister Smithington Originally by: Taipion . . . ... What is an arena? Organized PvP. CCP has provided you with the mechanics you need for PvP. ... Well, either you try to prove that you can post on a topic without understanding it, or you are a troll, either way, I¦d say nice try, but it wasn¦t Originally by: Lilith Velkor Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 06/07/2011 00:11:08 Originally by: Taipion Thats why we got the alliance tournament, right? Thats why everyone (well, a lot of people) loves the tournament, and would kill for playing that 10 on 10 like the big boys do? Think again! Have you fought in the alliance tournament, or did you just watch it? I am asking because I fought in the last three tournaments, and while it is fun in no way does it compare to the excitement of a proper no-limits fight in the 'open world'. Rules make for mostly predictable fight dynamics and limit viable tactics too much. Honestly, what got me excited the most everytime was hoping I'd not mess up and start moving before the countdown. The actual outcome, apart from maybe two fights, was already decided by the time the fleets warped into the arena. So you like the open world fight more? Good for you, many will say the same, but why shouldnt we have a Arena or a Tournament because of that?
Mister Smithington	Posted - 2011.07.06 00:31:00 - [69] Originally by: Alara IonStorm Originally by: Mister Smithington I'll lay it out as clearly as I can. You are welcome to have your arena. But you must build it yourself. Naw I would really rather have the Devs Build it. Case in point. Lazy. Pussies.
Taipion Caldari Operations Control United Pod Service	Posted - 2011.07.06 00:36:00 - [70] Originally by: Mister Smithington Originally by: Alara IonStorm Originally by: Mister Smithington I'll lay it out as clearly as I can. You are welcome to have your arena. But you must build it yourself. Naw I would really rather have the Devs Build it. Case in point. Lazy. Pussies. First: We can¦t build it, even if we wanted to, because we don¦t have the 99$ CCP would charge us for doing their work... Second: I really appreciate your free bumps, but if you really insist on writing stuff in your bumps, think, then write, not other way round.

Portmanteau Gallente CTRL-Q	Posted - 2011.07.06 00:36:00 - [71] Originally by: baltec1 Every single MMO that has added arenas has seen a fall in other pvp. Why hunt when you can get on demand fights and more importantly fair fights. fair fights sux
Olleybear Minmatar I R' Carebear	Posted - 2011.07.06 00:38:00 - [72] Originally by: Mister Smithington Pussies. Stop. Your turning me on and I'm at work for christs sake!
Mister Smithington	Posted - 2011.07.06 00:38:00 - [73] Originally by: Taipion Originally by: Mister Smithington Originally by: Alara IonStorm Originally by: Mister Smithington I'll lay it out as clearly as I can. You are welcome to have your arena. But you must build it yourself. Naw I would really rather have the Devs Build it. Case in point. Lazy. Pussies. First: We can¦t build it, even if we wanted to, because we don¦t have the 99$ CCP would charge us for doing their work... Second: I really appreciate your free bumps, but if you really insist on writing stuff in your bumps, think, then write, not other way round. I love how you get all bent out of shape when I call you out for being bad at sandbox play.
Taipion Caldari Operations Control United Pod Service	Posted - 2011.07.06 00:48:00 - [74] Originally by: Mister Smithington ... Hey Darth-Swab, I love how you try to imagine to be good at trolling, but really, as you don¦t have a point, and proved you are just facerolling to get the text into your posts... Well, I won¦t destroy your illusions as long as you bump this thread and help it grow.
Lilith Velkor Minmatar Heretic Army B A N E	Posted - 2011.07.06 00:51:00 - [75] Originally by: Taipion So you like the open world fight more? Good for you, many will say the same, but why shouldnt we have a Arena or a Tournament because of that? Let me ask the other way around, why waste Dev resources on essentially breaking the sandbox when you can already have your tournaments? Just organize them yourself, we have them in our alliance regularly with prizes, rules and all that stuff. The point is, it is still happening inside the sandbox. If you really dont like that, maybe give the test server a spin. Losing stuff is of no consequence there, you can have all the fair fights you ever wanted. Be aware though, they are boring.
Mister Smithington	Posted - 2011.07.06 00:55:00 - [76] Originally by: Taipion Originally by: Mister Smithington ... Hey Darth-Swab, I love how you try to imagine to be good at trolling, but really, as you don¦t have a point, and proved you are just facerolling to get the text into your posts... Well, I won¦t destroy your illusions as long as you bump this thread and help it grow. My point, sir, was that you need to stop asking the devs to circumvent the sandbox. I realize that's hard for you to process. After all, you're a lazy *****.
Alara IonStorm Caldari	Posted - 2011.07.06 00:57:00 - [77] Originally by: Lilith Velkor Let me ask the other way around, why waste Dev resources Cause I would enjoy it and feel that it is worth the time to consider it. One could ask why waste Dev Resources with anything,because people want them in game. I want this in the game, if the Devs like the idea then they can add it, if they don't they will not. -- EVE Online is commited to $$Excellence$$
Taipion Caldari Operations Control United Pod Service	Posted - 2011.07.06 00:58:00 - [78] Edited by: Taipion on 06/07/2011 01:00:59 Originally by: Mister Smithington Originally by: Taipion Originally by: Mister Smithington ... Hey Darth-Swab, I love how you try to imagine to be good at trolling, but really, as you don¦t have a point, and proved you are just facerolling to get the text into your posts... Well, I won¦t destroy your illusions as long as you bump this thread and help it grow. My point, sir, was that you need to stop asking the devs to circumvent the sandbox. I realize that's hard for you to process. After all, you're a lazy ***. No one is circumventing the sandbox, there would be just more possibilities. But, again, thx for free bumps! (are you posting here just to insult people, because you don¦t dare to do in RL?!) Originally by:** Lilith Velkor Originally by: Taipion So you like the open world fight more? Good for you, many will say the same, but why shouldnt we have a Arena or a Tournament because of that? Let me ask the other way around, why waste Dev resources on essentially breaking the sandbox when you can already have your tournaments? Just organize them yourself, we have them in our alliance regularly with prizes, rules and all that stuff. The point is, it is still happening inside the sandbox. If you really dont like that, maybe give the test server a spin. Losing stuff is of no consequence there, you can have all the fair fights you ever wanted. Be aware though, they are boring. I thought you figured it out allready, but ok, let me explain: This is EVE, if you try to have a player-made-tournament, you will have more people trying to disturb (and preferrably kill/loot the teams ships) than people participating (off those participating, there will still be a lot who won¦t play by the rules or worse...). Why? Because this is EVE! Sure you can do that on the testserver, but then, where is the thrill? Two Flagships in each fight are lame. You get the point? And still this thread was about how to burn more ships to help EVEs economy!
Olleybear Minmatar I R' Carebear	Posted - 2011.07.06 00:59:00 - [79] Originally by: Alara IonStorm Originally by: Lilith Velkor Let me ask the other way around, why waste Dev resources Cause I would enjoy it and feel that it is worth the time to consider it. One could ask why waste Dev Resources with anything,because people want them in game. I want this in the game, if the Devs like the idea then they can add it, if they don't they will not. This.
Lilith Velkor Minmatar Heretic Army B A N E	Posted - 2011.07.06 00:59:00 - [80] Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 06/07/2011 01:03:37 Originally by: Alara IonStorm Originally by: Lilith Velkor Let me ask the other way around, why waste Dev resources Cause I would enjoy it and feel that it is worth the time to consider it. Please dont cut quotes trying to twist them around. Why waste Dev resources on breaking the sandbox, if you can already have tournaments within said sandbox anyway? Originally by: Taipion This is EVE, if you try to have a player-made-tournament, you will have more people trying to disturb (and preferrably kill/loot the teams ships) than people participating (off those participating, there will still be a lot who won¦t play by the rules or worse...). Thats funny, have you actually tried it? I've had tournaments without disruption in lowsec plenty of times, and some I didnt participate in personally but went down in nullsec went equally well. Originally by: Taipion Why? Because this is EVE! Exactly, and you are trying to take the EVE out of EVE.

Alara IonStorm Caldari	Posted - 2011.07.06 01:02:00 - [81] Originally by: Lilith Velkor Why waste Dev resources on breaking the sandbox, if you can already have tournaments within said sandbox anyway? Because Aggro Mechanics, GCC and Wardecs are not conducive to this style of play and don't provide enough options. The statement that this breaks the Sandbox is also a mistake. It would not break the Sandbox to provide a bookmark and gate pass to an area with Aggro turned off. -- EVE Online is commited to $$Excellence$$
Taipion Caldari Operations Control United Pod Service	Posted - 2011.07.06 01:03:00 - [82] Originally by: Lilith Velkor Exactly, and you are trying to take the EVE out of EVE. How could I? Tell me how this would affect EVE in any negative way!
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE	Posted - 2011.07.06 01:04:00 - [83] Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o How can it be fixed ? It's a question of mentality. Talking to old friends that I flew with 5-10 years ago and neither of us remember players being 'scared' to fight when we started this game. There was a time where everyone fitted stabs, but we used them for range control (warp out- and in) mainly. We'd just take the ships we have and go out and look for fights. Even if we faced a bigger group we'd still take them on, and give a gf in local afterwards, being happy for getting to shoot stuff.. as well as that kick of putting stuff at risk. I remember purely flying Executioners for well over a year (I had BS 5 several months but still flew frigs) since I couldn't afford otherwise. But I did fight. Industrialists fought. Highsec dwellers fought. In fact, the only entity I remember facing that didn't fight, they used log-on traps to fight on their own terms.. still better than today. TL;DR Something changed, 2007 we still had decent roams. I'd say 2008'ish, around that time, suddenly people got scared about losing stuff. Suddenly kill/death efficiency was something they talked about as well. I.e. I doubt we can "fix" this now. The mentality is deeply rooted. Killboards is an integrated part of EVE. We have industrialists who don't want to PvP. We have people who want to live in null but rather pay than fight for space. That right there, is the reason we don't lose ships at the amounts we used, could, should. -
MeBiatch	Posted - 2011.07.06 01:07:00 - [84] if you want more ships to die its simple NERF! Logistics!!!!
0oO0oOoOo0o	Posted - 2011.07.06 01:12:00 - [85] Originally by: Mister Smithington I'll lay it out as clearly as I can. You are welcome to have your arena. But you must build it yourself. Eve is a sandbox, not a themepark. If you want something done, you have to do it. That's what makes it a sandbox and not a theme park. What is an arena? Organized PvP. CCP has provided you with the mechanics you need for PvP. It's up to you to provide the organization. ... An arena doesn't make it a themepark or less sandbox, maybe you should learn the difference between the two and why MMOs are classed as one of the two. It requires additional coding, and therefore it can only be done by CCP. For example the ranking is an important aspect of that and it must be done by the system, can't be done by a player. Think about the arena as e-sports, tournaments/fighting as sports is even part of the Caldari background, so it perfectly fits into this game. And ranking develops it's own dynamics, you can find it in many games, I mentioned the FIDE world ranking for chess above, there are some for other sports as well, for example tennis. If you participate in sports with rating, you know what I mean, the competitive part of it can be extremely addictive and fun.
Taipion Caldari Operations Control United Pod Service	Posted - 2011.07.06 01:13:00 - [86] Originally by: MeBiatch if you want more ships to die its simple NERF! Logistics!!!! That would just result in even bigger blobs.
Mister Smithington	Posted - 2011.07.06 01:14:00 - [87] Originally by: Taipion No one is circumventing the sandbox, there would be just more possibilities. Removing the ability for others to interfere breaks the sandbox. Forcing systems where there is room for player creation breaks the sandbox. Quote: (are you posting here just to insult people, because you don¦t dare to do in RL?!) Surprisingly enough my language is comparatively tame on the forums. Quote: This is EVE, if you try to have a player-made-tournament, you will have more people trying to disturb (and preferrably kill/loot the teams ships) than people participating (off those participating, there will still be a lot who won¦t play by the rules or worse...). Why? Because this is EVE! We've already seen the pro-arena lazyness, and here, ladies and gentlemen, is the fear. Fear of risk. Fear of the unknown. Fear of the sandbox. We get it, you're afraid to give it a shot. Others aren't. We have testimony that BANE hold their own tourneys. RvB may not be exactly what you're shooting for, but they're another fine example of a group of players who Hardened The **** Up and used the sandbox the way it was intended.
MeBiatch	Posted - 2011.07.06 01:17:00 - [88] Originally by: Taipion Originally by: MeBiatch if you want more ships to die its simple NERF! Logistics!!!! That would just result in even bigger blobs. no that would result in more ship deaths and ipso facto more industry...
0oO0oOoOo0o	Posted - 2011.07.06 01:27:00 - [89] Originally by: Misanth I.e. I doubt we can "fix" this now. The mentality is deeply rooted. Killboards is an integrated part of EVE. We have industrialists who don't want to PvP. We have people who want to live in null but rather pay than fight for space. That right there, is the reason we don't lose ships at the amounts we used, could, should. Yes I know what you mean, that was one of the reasons for me to quit my last alliance. We regularly had nice BS/BC-sized fleets, usually 30-40. But we hardly had any fights, we either met smaller fleets who ran from us or we ran because the others had bigger numbers. The FCs preferred to play it safe, not to get a bad reputation by dumping fleets to bigger blobs. Sometimes we had 5-6 hour trips without a single fight - some people like that, but it won't disappear with things like the arena, since space still has to be defended / conquered by fleets. It's just additional PVP for people who want to log in for a limited time, not the whole evening, and still have some halfway fair PVP experience.
Olleybear Minmatar I R' Carebear	Posted - 2011.07.06 01:29:00 - [90] Edited by: Olleybear on 06/07/2011 01:36:59 Hmmm, breaking the sandbox = others cant interfere? Sounds like the Alliance Tourney to me. Devs move the praticipants to a Jove system noone else has access to. The tourney is popular enough they stream it over the net and call it Eve TV. From what I understand, people like it more than a little. I havnt heard any people complaining about the Alliance Tourney and how it sucks because the crowd cant jump into the middle of the fight. Shrug Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o It's just additional PVP for people who want to log in for a limited time, not the whole evening, and still have some halfway fair PVP experience. Yup. Agreed. There are tons of people who complain all the time about how long it takes to find a fight, myself included. Not everyone has 5 hours to play a night in hopes that a fight may come.

MeBiatch	Posted - 2011.07.06 01:35:00 - [91] Originally by: Olleybear Hmmm, breaking the sandbox = others cant interfere? Sounds like the Alliance Tourney to me. Devs move the praticipants to a Jove system noone else has access to. The tourney is popular enough they stream it over the net and call it Eve TV. From what I understand, people like it more than a little. I havnt heard any people complaining about the Alliance Tourney and how it sucks because the crowd cant jump into the middle of the fight. Shrug ok so other people can participate make it so you can bet arum on the fights!
0oO0oOoOo0o	Posted - 2011.07.06 01:44:00 - [92] How this fits into the EVE universe background story: "... To curb their aggressive tendencies, the Caldari actively pursue and sponsor a range of sporting activities. Many of these are bloody, gladiatorial-like competitions, while others are more like races. But whatever the sport, the Caldari love betting on the outcome, making gambling a massive industry in the State. ..." Taken from here: Backstory The Caldari maintain and secure the arena fights, so that they are fought by the rules of the competition ... how does this break the sandbox ? Outside the arena you still can do what you like and no one is forced to participate, there are not even rewards for it except of vanity (in terms of having a high rank or so).
Mister Smithington	Posted - 2011.07.06 01:50:00 - [93] Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o How this fits into the EVE universe background story: "... To curb their aggressive tendencies, the Caldari actively pursue and sponsor a range of sporting activities. Many of these are bloody, gladiatorial-like competitions, while others are more like races. But whatever the sport, the Caldari love betting on the outcome, making gambling a massive industry in the State. ..." Taken from here: Backstory The Caldari maintain and secure the arena fights, so that they are fought by the rules of the competition ... how does this break the sandbox ? Outside the arena you still can do what you like and no one is forced to participate, there are not even rewards for it except of vanity (in terms of having a high rank or so). The characters of the various bits of lore don't break the sandbox because they don't participate in it. Seriously, man. Can you not see the difference between the NPCs that we assume are running around down on the planets and the players playing the game? That would be like me saying the game Guild Wars is named after a piece of their lore where various guilds fought each other and nearly tore their homelands apart, and so therefore Guild Wars is about massive open-world battles.
Amber Villaneous	Posted - 2011.07.06 02:14:00 - [94] Why is it a WoW kiddie thing because two(2v2 3v3 4v4...) people want to enter the ring with one leaving in a pod? Why is it hard to fathom that some NPC organization could set up death matches? Could very well be some good fights instead of ridiculous meta-gamed alliance tourneys once a year.
Lady Spank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2011.07.06 02:16:00 - [95] I go sleep for a few hours and this thread gets 3 pages of tripe? Blah blah, carebears are risk averse and think this is a good idea. Get over it, CCP are simply not going to implement this crap. Cry all you like, I stated why on page 1 already. ~~~
Mars Theran Caldari EVE Rogues EVE Rogues Alliance	Posted - 2011.07.06 02:42:00 - [96] Automated instances would just provide a catalogue of kills for someone to record and take advantage of by supplying the market with the appropriate ships and mods. It's far to predictable, and instanced space is very un-EVE-like. Originally by: CCP Abathur Artwork in EVE, as you've noticed, is serious business.
MeBiatch	Posted - 2011.07.06 02:49:00 - [97] Originally by: Lady Spank I go sleep for a few hours and this thread gets 3 pages of tripe? Blah blah, carebears are risk averse and think this is a good idea. Get over it, CCP are simply not going to implement this crap. Cry all you like, I stated why on page 1 already. i do not get you're beefcakes... there is such things called war! you war deck alliances/corps for a week... why not have a personal sanction war between you and someone else? but why make the length of said war just one week? make the time variable... or how about you want to set best of 5 so you set length 5 hours and max kills best 3/5, plus make the bet $50 million isk each member in the duel... this would make pvp fun for allot of people who would never go out on pvp... which is a considerable large amount of eves population... this by no way would mess with the sandbox because those who do not want to use don't have to... its all about choice...
Uuali	Posted - 2011.07.06 02:52:00 - [98] Sad to say CCP has already decided how to handle this problem. Monocles! Forget in-game economy and just sell stuff for real cash. Easy! Sorry to troll, but I really think this is their solution. I see no valid evidence to the contrary at this point.
Olleybear Minmatar I R' Carebear	Posted - 2011.07.06 02:56:00 - [99] Originally by: Lady Spank Blah blah, carebears are risk averse and think this is a good idea. Ships blow up, possible pod kill, people like the idea of risking ship and pod for vanity with betting pools on the outcome. Doesnt sound risk adverse to me if stuff still gets blown up. I guess that means the alliance tourney is filled with risk adverse carebears according to your definition of risk adverse? And they get billion isk ships as prizes for the top spot.
Vasaczk	Posted - 2011.07.06 03:11:00 - [100] Originally by: Alara IonStorm Originally by: baltec1 Every single MMO that has added arenas has seen a fall in other pvp. Why hunt when you can get on demand fights and more importantly fair fights. For the joy of Hunting or the stats of World PVP Kills over Arena(I think the difference should be clearly marked) or because you want Territory. I do see PVP dropping, but real -5 Pirates will still be Pirates, Nullsec will still be Nullsec. Some may say why bother when I can just fight fair but those people would not PVP much anyway in Open World. The biggest thing you can do to prevent an Area from taking over a game is simple. Don't have Ques. If you want a fight you have to find someone to fight, if you want a 10v10 then find 20 people. Finally give no rewards or loot for it, have it be a pure sink for Minerals. A lot of games that have Areana's in them overestimate the effect on World PVP, if you can keep it from being press button receive fight the effect should be minimal and the fun greater. Slippery slope though.

Myfanwy Heimdal Caldari Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc	Posted - 2011.07.06 05:38:00 - [101] This thread is getting hijacked by Arena talk. As I have said before there's RvB which is as good as an Arena anyway. Challenges are made from one side to the other for a duel and they are met. That sounds like Arena to me and I haven't heard a single good argument for joining RvB. So, I think that those who wish to have Arena should join them - and it's good fun. The whole issue is how to have more ships lost. Simply we need to get more people into low-sec and null-sec. Or we need to make changes in high-sec so that CONCORD fails to work for a while. One of the only problems that I have with the security level of a system is that anything above 0.5 is safe due to CONCORD's presence. Yes, there are rats in these systems but in all practical purposes there's no difference between a 0.6 and a 0.9 system. A 1.0 system is much the same but there's no rats. I think that the problem lies with the fact that CONCORD runs magic ships; they get from somewhere to anywhere in seconds and are indestructible. They shouldn't be. I would like to see changes that CONCORD are no-drop loot ships, take time to get somewhere and to make hi-sec space more dangerous. Now, the other change that I would like to make it that if someone attacks someone else then they can't get out through any gates for a certain period of time, can't dock and can't log off to hide. The higher the security level the longer these timers can be. So, when someone attacks a miner, say, then the aggressor is locked into the system for a while and CONCORD comes after them. There should be an automatic bounty on the aggressor too, so that other players can change ships and chase after him. Furthermore, as I have mentioned before. I would have more rats gathering together now and then. The bonus being that they may get the occasional bot miner. But no more Arena talk, please. We have it. It's called Red v Blue.
Guillame Herschel Gallente NME1	Posted - 2011.07.06 05:59:00 - [102] I think a better idea to increase ship kills is to bring back mission encounters that occurred a little ways off of stations or gates, out in the open for passersby to see. Used to be that way. They'd have to change some other things to get missioners to accept these missions, like not informing the mission runner of the location prior to accepting it, or something like that. Mission runners used to accept those missions. They were quick and easy to do. They were also done before CONCORD got their boost up to godly status. My, how the player base has changed over the years.
VicturusTeSaluto Gallente Metafarmers MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2011.07.06 06:03:00 - [103] terrible idea. the players can organize this sort of thing themselves if they wish
Myfanwy Heimdal Caldari Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc	Posted - 2011.07.06 07:01:00 - [104] I would like to take the instancing thing further. Apart from the first few tutorials, when pilots are learning to fly through the SpaceSoup, I would like to see all instances in the missions removed. There is no place in EVE for these things.
Alara IonStorm Caldari	Posted - 2011.07.06 07:05:00 - [105] Originally by: Myfanwy Heimdal I would like to see all instances in the missions removed. There are no instanced missions. They can all be gotten too because they exist in Space, they can't all be warped to but you can get there. At no point is a copy generated that only one person can access. -- EVE Online is commited to $$Excellence$$
Myfanwy Heimdal Caldari Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc	Posted - 2011.07.06 07:10:00 - [106] Originally by: Alara IonStorm Originally by: Myfanwy Heimdal I would like to see all instances in the missions removed. There are no instanced missions. They can all be gotten too because they exist in Space, they can't all be warped to but you can get there. At no point is a copy generated that only one person can access. I get your point. However, all structures and the like magically vanish as soon as one hands in the mission totem. That definitely is wrong. Anyway, my point is that CONCORD is too strong and this stops incursions into High-Sec space where players should be encouraged to join the hue and cry to sort out the bad guys. Bring more EVE back into EVE and stop making High-Sec so ruddy safe. And this is me speaking as a High-Sec miner.
Xionis Zeshun	Posted - 2011.07.06 07:38:00 - [107] Originally by: Myfanwy Heimdal Lots of stuff. And suddenly EVE has no new subscribers who stick it out longer than a month because they're griefed every time they turn around. Making high sec more dangerous for established mission runners is all well and good (well not really, it'll still cause rage but I can see your point.) but the effect on new/inexperience players will be drastic. This is EVE. Give people the chance to annihilate a newb over and over and they'll be queueing up to do it. Established mission runners will be able to adjust tactics and fittings to adapt to having to be wary of a high sec attack. New players have no such options, and they will quickly lose interest in a game that amounts to some jackoff blowing them out of the sky every time they try to do anything besides stare at the CQ screen. And before someone gets on a box about how the newbs should just learn and HTFU, they won't. They'll quit, subscription retention will drop, and CCP will be in even bigger **** than it is after this whole MT thing.
Myfanwy Heimdal Caldari Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc	Posted - 2011.07.06 08:20:00 - [108] However, my proposals for having the griefer lockd into a system or a region whilst being persued by other players and a now non-indistructable CONCORD would mean that griefers would have to pay the consequences and allow new players to join in on the attacks if they so wished.
Rividien Calennand Gallente	Posted - 2011.07.06 09:52:00 - [109] Edited by: Rividien Calennand on 06/07/2011 09:56:03 +1 for the idea, I stopped reading at page 2 'cause i'm in hurry but i wanted to write my opinion too lol. Originally by: Taipion AND: There could be the option to have non-rated training-fights, that are "simulated" whereas everyone can choose whatever ship is allowed, and use it in the fight without losing any "real" value. no, this will kill the game 'cause people would use it to play without losing anything. i see the arena pvp as a good way to make people lose money. PvP arena --> ship destroyed --> need of money --> 0.0 pvp to get money. There will be an interest for who take part in pvp arenas in ensure themself a way to make money, such as conquer systems in conquerable where making money would be easier. but i got to admit that there would be some problems with an arena pvp system: one i can see is: Will people really go there and destroy faction BS when you can get easy fun by joining an arena accessible to only T1 frigs? T1 frigs are notoriously cheap(er), if players are going to use only those in pvp arenas the loss of money can be recoverable by doing just some carebear actions even in empire, destroying the need to get into 0.0 and "stronger" ways of money making. that said, it is not an easy thing since that would affect a lot of things in game. tho I'd love to see some pvp arenas implemented: fleet pvp gets boring sometimes, going around for hours without targets or for a 2 seconds fight when you scan down an easy win... Edit: thinking of it, that would be quite epic if an alliance is able to ensure themself some systems and make an Arena-like pvp tournaments player-leaded and moderated. yeah, that would be too epic XD
Taipion Caldari Operations Control United Pod Service	Posted - 2011.07.06 10:01:00 - [110] Originally by: Mister Smithington [...] Seriously, man. Can you not see the difference... You can¦t see the difference, do you? Why would it break the sandbox, if none can interfere in a arranged fight? That would mean, alliance tournament breaks the sandbox... But fortunatly, you don¦t have a point, you dont have any valid arguments, you just bump this thread all day, thanks! Ok now, does anyone have any REAL argument against Arena or Tournament like fights, simmilar to the alliance tournament, where you can bet on the outcome? There has not been one yet, at least not in this thread.

Lady Spank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2011.07.06 10:17:00 - [111] Originally by: Taipion Ok now, does anyone have any REAL argument against Arena or Tournament like fights, simmilar to the alliance tournament, where you can bet on the outcome? There has not been one yet, at least not in this thread. Putting ones head in the sand does not remove the counterpoint. ~~~
Taipion Caldari Operations Control United Pod Service	Posted - 2011.07.06 10:19:00 - [112] Originally by: Lady Spank Originally by: Taipion Ok now, does anyone have any REAL argument against Arena or Tournament like fights, simmilar to the alliance tournament, where you can bet on the outcome? There has not been one yet, at least not in this thread. Putting ones head in the sand does not remove the counterpoint. Saying someone is blind will not blind him. I read through all the (mostly fake/troll/...) arguments against it here, carefully, none was any close to be a real showstopper, neither are you.
Leda Faldoran	Posted - 2011.07.06 10:27:00 - [113] Originally by: Lady Spank Originally by: Taipion Ok now, does anyone have any REAL argument against Arena or Tournament like fights, simmilar to the alliance tournament, where you can bet on the outcome? There has not been one yet, at least not in this thread. Putting ones head in the sand does not remove the counterpoint. I guess, but as far as game breaking, or even game changing effects of such a system, I am not sure there are, in fact, any real negatives. Each racial capital has a non-instanced arena area. Participants are flagged. CONCORD, or some variation of it, would police the arena area and instapwn any aggresive non-participant. Teams could be made, fanbases would evolve, and good times could be had by all. I think it is a great idea.
Lady Spank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2011.07.06 10:32:00 - [114] Originally by: Leda Faldoran Each racial capital has a non-instanced arena area. Participants are flagged. CONCORD, or some variation of it, would police the arena area and instapwn any aggresive non-participant. Teams could be made, fanbases would evolve, and good times could be had by all. I think it is a great idea. Your proposal is more or less the same as current game mechanics allow where participants flip cans to have sanctioned fights. This isn't what people are asking for when they want instanced safe locations where the fights can't be interrupted. ~~~
Leda Faldoran	Posted - 2011.07.06 10:35:00 - [115] Originally by: Lady Spank Originally by: Leda Faldoran Each racial capital has a non-instanced arena area. Participants are flagged. CONCORD, or some variation of it, would police the arena area and instapwn any aggresive non-participant. Teams could be made, fanbases would evolve, and good times could be had by all. I think it is a great idea. Your proposal is more or less the same as current game mechanics allow where participants flip cans to have sanctioned fights. This isn't what people are asking for when they want instanced safe locations where the fights can't be interrupted. Instances, never... Sanctioned live arena tv in my CQ with associated OTB, yes please.
Taipion Caldari Operations Control United Pod Service	Posted - 2011.07.06 11:29:00 - [116] Originally by: Leda Faldoran Originally by: Lady Spank Originally by: Leda Faldoran Each racial capital has a non-instanced arena area. Participants are flagged. CONCORD, or some variation of it, would police the arena area and instapwn any aggresive non-participant. Teams could be made, fanbases would evolve, and good times could be had by all. I think it is a great idea. Your proposal is more or less the same as current game mechanics allow where participants flip cans to have sanctioned fights. This isn't what people are asking for when they want instanced safe locations where the fights can't be interrupted. Instances, never... Sanctioned live arena tv in my CQ with associated OTB, yes please. It does not make a difference if those fights would be actually instanced or not. What all would agree upon is, I assume: - Fights need to be free of interruption from outside - It does not brake the game or any pretty sandbox if 2 x 10 pilots are in such a "protected" fight instead of being docked Don¦t have everyone fly there to watch it, rather have (as I said) a spectator mode or a automated view so that you can, yes, sit back and relax in your all-famous-CQ and see if your bet was a good one. Again, are there any things, besides wannabetrolls, that would speak against this whole idea?
Leda Faldoran	Posted - 2011.07.06 11:38:00 - [117] Originally by: Taipion Originally by: Leda Faldoran Originally by: Lady Spank Originally by: Leda Faldoran Each racial capital has a non-instanced arena area. Participants are flagged. CONCORD, or some variation of it, would police the arena area and instapwn any aggresive non-participant. Teams could be made, fanbases would evolve, and good times could be had by all. I think it is a great idea. Your proposal is more or less the same as current game mechanics allow where participants flip cans to have sanctioned fights. This isn't what people are asking for when they want instanced safe locations where the fights can't be interrupted. Instances, never... Sanctioned live arena tv in my CQ with associated OTB, yes please. It does not make a difference if those fights would be actually instanced or not. What all would agree upon is, I assume: - Fights need to be free of interruption from outside - It does not brake the game or any pretty sandbox if 2 x 10 pilots are in such a "protected" fight instead of being docked Don¦t have everyone fly there to watch it, rather have (as I said) a spectator mode or a automated view so that you can, yes, sit back and relax in your all-famous-CQ and see if your bet was a good one. Again, are there any things, besides wannabetrolls, that would speak against this whole idea? I liked the idea of having, what amounts to, a giant Pos bubble in a system, (I would vote for one in each of the racial capitals), with access being granted based on a specific rules set, but actually run by players. I like the idea of new career paths and, if WIS continues to move forward, player owned and operated Sports Bars.
Taipion Caldari Operations Control United Pod Service	Posted - 2011.07.06 11:41:00 - [118] Originally by: Leda Faldoran ... Player owned sports bars with WIS... I fear this won¦t come soon, but would be nice as well. Again, there are many ways to actually implement the fight itself, whatever works is fine.
Lady Spank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2011.07.07 09:33:00 - [119] Originally by: Taipion What all would agree upon is, I assume: - Fights need to be free of interruption from outside - It does not brake the game or any pretty sandbox if 2 x 10 pilots are in such a "protected" fight instead of being docked Again, are there any things, besides wannabetrolls, that would speak against this whole idea? Having the fights be in a protected space is exactly what will 'brake' the sandbox, and is the reason why CCP will not implement instanced space. You can't compare it to being docked since you can't have a fight, run d-scan etc while docked and you don't always have the option to dock depending where you are. It doesn't even compare to cloaking up in a safespot. Suggesting anyone with a different opinion to you is merely trolling is hilariously pompous. ~~~
Tsumei Meyren Creative Cookie Procuring Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2011.07.07 11:13:00 - [120] This would quite literally take the sand right out of the sandbox. Yes, It sounds like a good idea for people because they'd get their pvp on demand, But it isn't in practice a good idea as it sterilizes pvp like mad. Right now pvp is entirely what the players make it, Ship balance is still wacky on several ships and the meta changes basically whenever someone works out how to abuse the slightly wacky meta more and more. A lot of what makes eve exciting is that you can't be sure if that guy has friends, you can't be sure he'll honor the 1v1, it's a free world full of player on player interaction in pvp, if you sterilize the format to just be "ships shooting ships" rather than all the meta that goes into whether or not they are a bait ship, or is that guy really that stupid, should I engage? etc. Basically arena pvp would make pvp a lot more boring for people who set small gang pvp as their endgame, and we'd end up sitting in arena queues in station where we can't spin ships waiting for the next chance to get blown up. Not to mention it kinda makes it more expensive to pvp aswell, as you'd lose ships much more rapidly under the typical AT combat conditions - Plus it loses the chance of one side escalating with a carrier or something. ( which usually ends up with carrier kill ) TL;Dr: Please don't steal ideas from WoW. -------------------------------------------------------- Creative Cookie Procuring [Girl.] Are recruiting!

Taipion Caldari Operations Control United Pod Service	Posted - 2011.07.07 11:24:00 - [121] Originally by: Lady Spank Originally by: Taipion What all would agree upon is, I assume: - Fights need to be free of interruption from outside - It does not brake the game or any pretty sandbox if 2 x 10 pilots are in such a "protected" fight instead of being docked Again, are there any things, besides wannabetrolls, that would speak against this whole idea? Having the fights be in a protected space is exactly what will 'brake' the sandbox, and is the reason why CCP will not implement instanced space. You can't compare it to being docked since you can't have a fight, run d-scan etc while docked and you don't always have the option to dock depending where you are. It doesn't even compare to cloaking up in a safespot. Suggesting anyone with a different opinion to you is merely trolling is hilariously pompous. You still dont get the basic idea, instance means, no chance to use scan or whatever, as there is NO interaction between the fight-participants and everyone else. Having this in a dedicated system, where all the fighters gather, what advantage could you get even if it would be possible?! Instanced means, no interaction in either direction, so its the same as being docked, just that some of the (up to) 2x10 ships will be lost.
Lady Spank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2011.07.07 11:40:00 - [122] Originally by: Taipion You still dont get the basic idea, instance means, no chance to use scan or whatever, as there is NO interaction between the fight-participants and everyone else. Having this in a dedicated system, where all the fighters gather, what advantage could you get even if it would be possible?! Instanced means, no interaction in either direction, so its the same as being docked, just that some of the (up to) 2x10 ships will be lost. I get it perfectly and there should be no instancing for fights in Eve regardless of where this safe environment occurs. It is absolutely nothing like being docked and as the poster 2 up said it destroys PVP. That you can't understand this shows a lack of understanding of what Eve is all about. You are entitled to your opinion that it would be good or fun but to say it is harmless is laughable. Regardless this is something CCP will never implement as thankfully they understand the game better than you do. ~~~
Gwenywell Shumuku	Posted - 2011.07.07 11:41:00 - [123] No it would not, ARENA pvp is nothing like open world pvp, so it won't do anything to it. Arenas could be the quick pvp fix you give yourself now and then, stuff that you go do in other games as of now (yes, thats right....ppl play other games for fast pvp). As long as its "full loss" and you are only immune for the duration of the fight, i'm cool with it. There could be other mechanics that prevent you from taking part (criminal flag, ongoing war dec), thats easy to do. Saying it would ruin the sandbox is ignoring the fact that the sandbox is about building sandcastles. Back in the days it was possible to get small fights, the times are long gone, today you spend more time searching for a battle than doing the battle . For most ppl, thats not satisfying.
B00T INI	Posted - 2011.07.07 11:59:00 - [124] Originally by: Gwenywell Shumuku No it would not, ARENA pvp is nothing like open world pvp, so it won't do anything to it. People getting their quick arena pvp fix are people not out there PVPing for real, thus adding to the problem. Eve is not about instant gratification.
Taipion Caldari Operations Control United Pod Service	Posted - 2011.07.10 23:21:00 - [125] Edited by: Taipion on 10/07/2011 23:21:28 Originally by: Lady Spank Originally by: Taipion You still dont get the basic idea, instance means, no chance to use scan or whatever, as there is NO interaction between the fight-participants and everyone else. Having this in a dedicated system, where all the fighters gather, what advantage could you get even if it would be possible?! Instanced means, no interaction in either direction, so its the same as being docked, just that some of the (up to) 2x10 ships will be lost. I get it perfectly and there should be no instancing for fights in Eve regardless of where this safe environment occurs. It is absolutely nothing like being docked and as the poster 2 up said it destroys PVP. That you can't understand this shows a lack of understanding of what Eve is all about. You are entitled to your opinion that it would be good or fun but to say it is harmless is laughable. Regardless this is something CCP will never implement as thankfully they understand the game better than you do. As I said, you don¦t understand it, and saying it would kill PvP just proves that you don¦t even know the difference between EVE and WoW. Originally by: B00T INI Originally by: Gwenywell Shumuku No it would not, ARENA pvp is nothing like open world pvp, so it won't do anything to it. People getting their quick arena pvp fix are people not out there PVPing for real, thus adding to the problem. Eve is not about instant gratification. As I posted and explained earlier, there will be no less people in open PvP because of a Arena or Tournament like PvP. And EVE is about instant gratification, you kill the ship, you loot it.
Olleybear Minmatar I R' Carebear	Posted - 2011.07.11 02:37:00 - [126] So far what I am seeing is people opposed to the Arena style of combat based on one thing only. That thing being the fight is instanced or somehow not 'gankable' by outside players. So lets get rid of the instance. The two players agree to the Arena match, they fight outside station or warp to a safespot in system, duke it out until one person is destroyed or warps out, leaving the winner in their ship. If the match is scanned out and someone interferes ( neutral remote rep or suicide ganks 1 of the players ) the match is voided as far as rankings go. This wouldnt break the sandbox because the fight would not be instanced. Would something like that make the people opposed to the idea of an Arena more likely to go for it? I spent 8 hours on and off last night looking for a fight. I am getting more than a little tired of looking for a fight for hours on end. When I finally found one I suicided my BC. IE, the BC I was fighting had a buddy next door in a BC as well plus a command link to extend the warp disrupt range. I knew this and I went for it anyway for the lolz.
Taipion Caldari Operations Control United Pod Service	Posted - 2011.07.11 21:50:00 - [127] Edited by: Taipion on 11/07/2011 21:51:18 Originally by: Olleybear So far what I am seeing is people opposed to the Arena style of combat based on one thing only. That thing being the fight is instanced or somehow not 'gankable' by outside players. So lets get rid of the instance. The two players agree to the Arena match, they fight outside station or warp to a safespot in system, duke it out until one person is destroyed or warps out, leaving the winner in their ship. If the match is scanned out and someone interferes ( neutral remote rep or suicide ganks 1 of the players ) the match is voided as far as rankings go. This wouldnt break the sandbox because the fight would not be instanced. And It would not make a Tournament or Arena Style PvP possible. Shielding the actual fight from outside interruption is a must for this kind of thing, and it would not brake anything but the believe of those nay sayers. Originally by: Olleybear Would something like that make the people opposed to the idea of an Arena more likely to go for it? No, not even that would do, because people trolling against it in this thread all come from WoW and think that EVE = WoW, and "Arena PvP" would kill "Open PvP". When I first realized what they were thinking, I lolled really hard, but then again I realized that they really believe it.
B00T INI	Posted - 2011.07.11 21:58:00 - [128] If I say NO NO NO enough times my argument must be rock solid.
Mister Smithington	Posted - 2011.07.11 21:58:00 - [129] Originally by: Olleybear So far what I am seeing is people opposed to the Arena style of combat based on one thing only. That thing being the fight is instanced or somehow not 'gankable' by outside players. So lets get rid of the instance. The two players agree to the Arena match, they fight outside station or warp to a safespot in system, duke it out until one person is destroyed or warps out, leaving the winner in their ship. If the match is scanned out and someone interferes ( neutral remote rep or suicide ganks 1 of the players ) the match is voided as far as rankings go. This wouldnt break the sandbox because the fight would not be instanced. Would something like that make the people opposed to the idea of an Arena more likely to go for it? I spent 8 hours on and off last night looking for a fight. I am getting more than a little tired of looking for a fight for hours on end. When I finally found one I suicided my BC. IE, the BC I was fighting had a buddy next door in a BC as well plus a command link to extend the warp disrupt range. I knew this and I went for it anyway for the lolz. You're just talking about a way to mutually flag two players without can-flipping? They still stay in space, they're still interactable by every one else (whether that be ganking or repping or whatever)? Yeah I'd be fine with that. Though, you could just can flip. Or fight corp members.
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2011.07.12 01:48:00 - [130] Originally by: B00T INI If I say NO NO NO enough times my argument must be rock solid. You don't have anything that comes close to an argument, you just troll this thread with inept drivel. Get out of here.

Taipion Caldari Operations Control United Pod Service	Posted - 2011.07.12 11:45:00 - [131] Ok, now we got a lot of people who would like to have something like this, and a lot of people who are either not aware that EVE != WoW, or ar trolls, or both. But to rule this out, and make it 100% clear, I dare to ask again: What exactly could go wrong with this kind of PvP? No "That breaks PvP" answers-snippets please, troll somewhere else, well thought through and explained arguments only! (And no, the existence of a Tournament/Arena Like PvP would not invalidate or reduce any other kind of PvP, simply because they are way different, as I explained allready in another post in this thread.)
Neqa'el Uphir Amarr PORTAL KOMBAT	Posted - 2011.07.12 11:50:00 - [132] CCP should just start looking at Blizzard and doing it their way as it is the right way. Question is not "are arenas a good idea", question is why they are not in the game for like 2-3 years already. Srsly.. Oh wait, too much development time, the whole 10 ppl are making THE ROOM and THE DOOR. Rest are working on World of Dust so no, no arenas.. too much effort and too much fun for players.
Chigger Troutslayer Internet Spaceship Gamers RED Citizens	Posted - 2011.07.12 12:23:00 - [133] I think it would be cool to have some sort of duel PVP mechanic, but it wouldn't even need to be that complicated with and "arena" or tournament and such. Simply a way to flag interested parties to each other for a set period of time. Make it similar to the trade window as far as signing up. Make it flexible you want 2 frigs vs 1 cruiser fine. You change ships you lose your flag to the other guy. Just need to deal with nuet RR. I don't think it would be all that hard to code, and with no arena, there are no hiding spots. Would sure beat the steal form a can and hope the other guy doesn't bring half his corp method of 1v1's.
Kunming Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E	Posted - 2011.07.12 12:37:00 - [134] Remove local, remove directional scanning even, give directional scanning to dedicated ships. Why? Simple, there are too much intel tools for no efford, when u jump into a system (non-WH ofc) you know how many enemies are there, with abit of moving around the system you already know their whole fleet composition. There is no "FOG-of-WAR" like in other strategy games its practically like a RTS with open map. Without ppl knowing the odds beforehand there will be more fights, if there is an option to do so the fighting wont commence until both sides know the odds, if u take that away, or weaken the intel tools ppl will just risk it instead of knowing that the fight is a guaranteed loss. I still do get into fights I know I will lose 100%, all this waiting these days its soo effing boring, i simply wanna see some pretty explosions and enjoy the subtle buzz of adrenaline. I definetly miss the days when pvp was way cheaper and ppl were not so afraid to lose their stuff.
Jupix Minmatar MuroBBS United	Posted - 2011.07.12 12:57:00 - [135] Originally by: Mister Smithington You're just talking about a way to mutually flag two players without can-flipping? They still stay in space, they're still interactable by every one else (whether that be ganking or repping or whatever)? Yeah I'd be fine with that. Though, you could just can flip. Or fight corp members. I just read through all the thread only to find what I was about to post in one of the last messages. Yes, what I want from an "arena"/"consentual PvP"/"tournament" PvP system is precisely that, a way to get other dudes flagged with a simple mouseclick without complicated aggro/war mechanics behind it all. I'm flabbergasted that you guys are talking about instances and complicated tournament mechanics stuff. That stuff's irrelevant and CCP probably won't ever do it. It doesn't even outright address the problem of finding targets cause it sounds like so much effort to set up a fight. Just give me quick pvp in space with the click of a button. Suiciding is not it because CONCORD makes me automatically lose and after a couple of fights I'm gimped by secstatus. Wardecs are not it, because they affect my corpmates and I don't want that. RvB is not it because that adds spam to my corp history and that's stupid. Also, I hate blobs and RvB has that stigma. Canflipping is not it because it flags me to his whole corp. Also I hate the effort and uncertainty and the fact it takes forever to set up. In STO IIRC there is a button labeled "challenge to duel" or something. I want that in eve. Only in STO it's an actual instance and in eve it should be normal space.


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