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Juliette DuBois
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Posted - 2011.07.08 09:02:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Spc One Because then rich people will have all SP's. So game will be dominated by the rich people. Which sucks, we all should have equal chances of getting better and train skills, even if we're not so rich in real life.
But you`re a bad customer if you are poor. Pony up. |
Cashcow Golden Goose
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Posted - 2011.07.08 09:30:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Spc One Because then rich people will have all SP's. So game will be dominated by the rich people. Which sucks, we all should have equal chances of getting better and train skills, even if we're not so rich in real life.
I doubt many rich people are sitting around wishing CCP start selling SP before they all suddenly decide to start accounts and fill Eve with toffs. Your proposition seems absurd. I've had the "If I won the lottery" conversation many times and not a single soul has ever said "Buy myself to victory in Eve Online". |
NoobPwn
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Posted - 2011.07.08 09:37:00 -
[93]
If you think you can purchase SP then you are simply stupid. There are a limited amount of characters you can buy and they were all trained by someone else. Same to ISK, you don't generate any ISK with your PLEX nor do you get any additional SP out of its natual growth. |
Elphaba Dante
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Posted - 2011.07.08 10:53:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Mark Sherlock
Originally by: Mag's Edited by: Mag''s on 07/07/2011 18:16:23
Originally by: Mark Sherlock You would't consider the $200 I personally saved, money CCP will not see, in training time a loss?
Repeating this for the third time now, It cost him/her $400 to train 53m sp, cost me 200$ to train 53m sp. Now, it would have cost me $400 to train if I didn't just straight up buy the SP and choose to train it instead. $200 =/= $400 last time I checked.
You didn't train the char, so it cost you $200 to buy it pre-trained.
You didn't spend the time training it, it was pre-trained.
It already cost RL monies to train that char, you simply added extra monies to the pot for the pre-trained char.
Someone already spent time and monies training it. For you to do the same it would take over 2 years. You will now play and still pay, no matter how long you play for. CCP have not lost any revenue, they have in fact gained, because you paid RL monies for a pre-trained char.
$200 + $400 = $600 last I checked.
Now, please tell me where the lost revenue is.
I have 53m SP right now. My training cost me $200. It's pretty cool I didnt have to pay $400 and wait two irl years.
$200 and immediate is definitely cheeper and more fun imo.
I do understand and agree with what you are saying. I saved $200 in training time, that has to come from somewhere. Any guesses?
It came from the guy that originally trained the character.
Do I get a cookie? |
Louis Elisius
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Posted - 2011.07.08 11:07:00 -
[95]
I wouldnt buy extra skillpoints cuz i wouldnt have enough isk to buy, lets say , a tier 2 ship. Then again, I could buy more plex to get the ship that matches with my paid-for skillpoints and in the end im just paying for everything.... I personally dont mind waiting for skillpoints cuz in the meanwhile im busy making good isk/hour strategies (like doing lvl 2's in a drake fitted with 4 launchers and 2 tractors and 2 salvagers lol). No, I wouldnt buy sp's cuz i would have to buy isk aswell to make them of any use, thus nullifying my gameplay experience |
cBOLTSON
Star Frontiers
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Posted - 2011.07.08 11:13:00 -
[96]
All this talk of buying sp - has anyone pasued to think that you cannot have the SP without the skillbooks? So Not only are you buying SP you buy skillbooks too? I am totally against this idea.
You want to get ahead, then buy a character. There are in game risks that come with it. Buying SP direct is very un eve like. |
MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2011.07.08 11:16:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Leah Solo Honeslty, I cant think of a benefit I earn in training the account to 53m myself
Because you have no clue. Literally. No pun intended. Few years from now if you're still playing you'll know better. |
Kiran
Minmatar Knights of Azrael
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Posted - 2011.07.08 11:16:00 -
[98]
Time spent playing Eve should never out weigh SP bought for cash.
Someone has spent time and money to CCP to make that 60 million sp character. You then buy that character giving more money to CCP to purchase it.
Buying skill points via RL cash or AUR should never be implemented into the game, it would unblanace many things within the game like the in game market and possibly sov held space. You would also create a two tier type of player. The ones with the money to buy skill points and the ones that do not. Which means only those that can afford to buy the skill points will be able to compete within the pvp side of the game.
And as a side note, I am watching CCP very closely and the first sight of pay to win "gold ammo" that gets into the game I am quitting. |
Louis Elisius
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Posted - 2011.07.08 11:37:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Louis Elisius on 08/07/2011 11:38:59
Originally by: Kiran Time spent playing Eve should never out weigh SP bought for cash.
Someone has spent time and money to CCP to make that 60 million sp character. You then buy that character giving more money to CCP to purchase it.
Buying skill points via RL cash or AUR should never be implemented into the game, it would unblanace many things within the game like the in game market and possibly sov held space. You would also create a two tier type of player. The ones with the money to buy skill points and the ones that do not. Which means only those that can afford to buy the skill points will be able to compete within the pvp side of the game.
And as a side note, I am watching CCP very closely and the first sight of pay to win "gold ammo" that gets into the game I am quitting.
Then again, blowing somebody out of the sky who is firing sparkly gold $$ ammoes at you will be alot more thrilling ;) This guy on eve radio hoped that ccp would sell racing stripes on ships for $$ cuz those ships would be the ultimate pvp targets hehehe
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Bad Messenger
draketrain
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Posted - 2011.07.08 11:46:00 -
[100]
NeX Plan for new alliance:
1. create 1000 new alt accounts, 2. buy SP for motherships from nex, 3. blob everything with nyxes.
only problem is where to get all those nyxes, so CCP bring nyxes to NEX please. |
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Le Cardinal
Spricer Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.07.08 12:01:00 -
[101]
Maybe said before, but OP lack an understanding of this game on so many levels.
The has another aspect with the current system you completely fail to realize. Its part of the charm that eve has to offer. Its supposed to be hard work in order for it to be worth something to you. Like finally getting BS 5 or finally reaching high enough skills to train t2 guns. That feeling of YES! finally! is part of what makes eve what it is today. I can recall alot of those moments.
Its also a part of learning the ropes. Getting to understand what eve is about. Facing challenges in pvp, facing challenges in pve etc etc.
If ccp take that away eve will end up being space counterstrike online. And they will also make an eve where wealthy kids get an easy way up. You could say that applies to plex as well, but as so many ppl have pointed out before; Someone already trained that char in advance and the isk goes back into the market.
Also speaking for myself id feel pretty gutted about it. Ive spent years training this char. Ive spent the cash and theres never been an easy way to build it how it is today. I have alts that i can sell with little affection value, but this char sticks with me to the end. Would i like someone to be able to accomplish that in a week of gameplay because he/she has a fat wallet in rl. Hell no.
You could say that my kind of gameplay doesnt apply to you and your perfectly right, but remember theres a reason that players stick around for years. Part of it is the skillpoint system. If you truly want a feeling of how eve is like you should take the time to build an identity from the bottom. But be warned if you do.
Its quite addictive. |
Neodell
Amarr BradNett Reloaded
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Posted - 2011.07.08 12:31:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Neodell on 08/07/2011 12:32:28 Quote from OP I started playing eve four weeks ago
And you have a character with 53 million skill points?
Anyway. The reason I don't think CCP or the older community would like buying skill points for money is for a few reasons:
1) How much money do they get per month from people who are training for something they want? Will being able to buy skill points be worth more to CCP then the sub payments?
2) Eve has been advertised since its birth as a slow burning game (I have been playing for 8 years and still have stuff to train) Eve and the older players don't really want to be forced into the 'I want it now!!' players of today.
3) You find a ship you want, buy the skill points, buy the ship where is the hard work in that... where is the slow burn and the wait for the final skill to finish?
4) A 2 week player with lots of money could in theory buy all the skill points in the game...
5) The ISK value of characters would change dramatically, it could go down or it could go through the roof as the 2011 character with 200 million skill points tries to get back the money they invested.
6) Who puts a value on skill points? For me I train 2,700 per hour so in a 31 day month I train 2,008,800 does that mean 2 million skill points should be worth Ç14.99 ? or more?
I personally wouldn't be happy to see cash for skills. It has taken a lot of my time and money (Ç14.99 per month for 8 years times by 2 accounts) to get to where I am and who would want to be able to do everything in game but not have a clue how to use it?
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Lene Austrene
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Posted - 2011.07.08 12:42:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Mark Sherlock I see many a post involving, "I'll quit if you can purcahse SP"...
I started playing eve four weeks ago, four week old account. I have two characters. One with 1.2 million SP, another with 53 million SP. I actually created another account to train additional SP, but letting that one run dry as purchasing SP is cheaper than training it.
I bought PLEX online through CCP account management.
I sold plex for isk.
I bought SP with isk
What's the fuss about? I can only imagine this has been around for a while now.
Apathy my friend.
I'm no expert. Maybe the fuss is about people that have invested years of their time into Eve. When the going got tough, maybe they held on by clinging to CCPs promises of a better and improved game, in which balance and stability would be the key focuses.
You know. Loyality and lots of money in exchange for a little consideration.
Personally I'm not bothered with the new changes, but then again I've been abscent from the game for quite some time, and don't have the disadvantage of things I could have said and done differently in the back of my mind. I find it best to blend in with the crowd and act oblivious, so I can swoop in and add a comment here and there to prove how normal and well informed I am. This also has the effect of getting popular trends accepted, and maintaining them until something new and shiny comes along. |
I'thari
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.08 12:57:00 -
[104]
Edited by: I''thari on 08/07/2011 12:57:05
Originally by: stoicfaux Sounds like there's a potential market for Starter SP Packages for New Characters.
Oh, so that was the real reason behind removing starter skills from new characters? |
Gallion
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.07.08 13:01:00 -
[105]
this is how I see it and how many other may agree to it.
SP is earned through dedication to the game, by NOT earning your dedication & Time it just says your not willing to PLAY the way this game was built.
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Brainless Bimbo
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.08 13:05:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Mark Sherlock
Personally, I found that if I intended to play the game for over a year, I would have been a sucker to not purchase SP, not even considering its more expensive to train yourself.
OK, so your the (expletives deleted) type CCP are trying to attract for short term cashflow with their dumbed down version of eve because quite frankly to be brutally honest your type have only a limited application of your alleged intelligence.
You may not realise that people used to start this game with the full knowledge that its a game that takes years to get into, but fun was available even at low levels early on if they had a brain and could use it.
No **** sherlock, your shallowness is showing, and yeah you will never get it.
/rant
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Jebidus Skari
Comply Or Die
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Posted - 2011.07.08 13:27:00 -
[107]
so you think me spending 8 years of TIME AND MONEY is fair of you can just buy a months training just like that? im fine with it, if the recompense me with 50% more sp or isk so then i can buy more sp |
Maverick2011
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2011.07.08 13:46:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Lady Spank Buying a character is not the same as buying SP.
"I bought PLEX online through CCP account management.
I sold plex for isk.
I bought SP with isk"
Well he just said he did. |
Azahni Vah'nos
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.07.08 13:54:00 -
[109]
So OP you clearly haven't thought about the way buying instant SP would break the game. Yes and before you answer, 'but, but I purchased a 53mil SP character from the Bazaar', have a long hard think about what the difference is.
I may be fairly new to this game, but even I can see the ramifications of getting instanst SP. And here I was believing the hype that intelligent people played this game.
An MMO and the 'I want it now' crowd, they just don't fit together. Square block, meet round hole. |
Maverick2011
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2011.07.08 13:59:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Azahni Vah'nos So OP you clearly haven't thought about the way buying instant SP would break the game. Yes and before you answer, 'but, but I purchased a 53mil SP character from the Bazaar', have a long hard think about what the difference is.
I may be fairly new to this game, but even I can see the ramifications of getting instanst SP. And here I was believing the hype that intelligent people played this game.
An MMO and the 'I want it now' crowd, they just don't fit together. Square block, meet round hole.
He wanted instant gratification, he got it. Your PLEX defense argument is invalid. HE GOT IT INSTANTLY.
WHO CARES HOW HE DID??? HE PAID FOR SP AND GOT IT. PUT THAT IN YOUR RMT MIND. |
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White Tree
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Posted - 2011.07.08 14:03:00 -
[111]
So how many of you equate the buying of characters with the buying of SP, and if you do compare them on the same level, then do you then think the idea of buying SP is ok? I'm just curious. |
Azahni Vah'nos
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.07.08 14:08:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Maverick2011
Originally by: Azahni Vah'nos So OP you clearly haven't thought about the way buying instant SP would break the game. Yes and before you answer, 'but, but I purchased a 53mil SP character from the Bazaar', have a long hard think about what the difference is.
I may be fairly new to this game, but even I can see the ramifications of getting instanst SP. And here I was believing the hype that intelligent people played this game.
An MMO and the 'I want it now' crowd, they just don't fit together. Square block, meet round hole.
He wanted instant gratification, he got it. Your PLEX defense argument is invalid. HE GOT IT INSTANTLY.
WHO CARES HOW HE DID??? HE PAID FOR SP AND GOT IT. PUT THAT IN YOUR RMT MIND.
Oh wow, hammering the keyboard before you have engaged your brain. I could go into a lengthy discussion about why buying instant SP for any character isn't a good idea for the game .... but you know what? it would be totally wasted on you. |
StillBorn CrackBaby
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Posted - 2011.07.08 14:08:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Ranger64511 Because if you buy SP you can be in any ship that you want right away. So we will have one, two day old pilots that can fly titans and Super Capital ships.
LOL, I can do that anyway. GTC's > ISK > Titan Pilot on my first day if I please.
Quote: This is silly and would throw off the game.
Throw it off for who?
Quote: Skill training is one of the things that I enjoy about EVE.
Good for you, some people hate it, they just wanna play.
Quote: We all started out as a new pilot and worked our way up to where we are today.
No WE didn't. I already did the GTC's > ISK > Buy experienced pilot. And I am doing quite well in game.
Quote: How fair also would it be for a 2003 or even a 2004 player?
Life isn't fair.
Quote: They spent years training and now a new 2011 pilot can fly the same things with the same amount of skills.
Yep, it's been happening for years. GTC's > ISK > Experienced pilot.
Quote: Basically it comes down to a balance in the game and if SP is bought then it will through the balance out the window.
Again, how will it do that exactly? |
Maverick2011
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2011.07.08 14:10:00 -
[114]
Originally by: White Tree So how many of you equate the buying of characters with the buying of SP, and if you do compare them on the same level, then do you then think the idea of buying SP is ok? I'm just curious.
Its not a matter if its ok or not. it exists already with some camouflage that confounds the minds of idiots. But its there already. PLEX is both RMT and instant gratification that people loathe here. But of course, since its allowed they use it without ever thinking twice.
Still defeats any sort of argument against pay to win. PLEX must be the reason CCP felt so confident about introducing MT to game. They knew players embraced that already through PLEX even if indirectly. |
Ripley Nostromo
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Posted - 2011.07.08 14:20:00 -
[115]
All I see in this thread is people calling the OP names. Clueless, stupid, troll, etc all the same crap simply because they don't agree with what he wants to do. And a whole lot of melodramatic "what if's" and "this is what will happen" stupidity.
SP sales is coming, you'll see. It's only a matter of time....
You'll see.... |
Jebidus Skari
Comply Or Die
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Posted - 2011.07.08 14:23:00 -
[116]
Originally by: White Tree So how many of you equate the buying of characters with the buying of SP, and if you do compare them on the same level, then do you then think the idea of buying SP is ok? I'm just curious.
I dont believe you can compare the both in the same way. Buying a char is getting another character, that may not be quite as specced as you like, plus you have to spend a few billion and then have a spare slot yada yada Buying SP will be alot cheaper asyour buying small chunks of SP, and your enhancing your own char. I want to know what CCP are going to do for all the players that have been playing for years and spend years training.. |
Skex Relbore
Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
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Posted - 2011.07.08 14:24:00 -
[117]
Edited by: Skex Relbore on 08/07/2011 14:24:16
Originally by: Maverick2011
Originally by: White Tree So how many of you equate the buying of characters with the buying of SP, and if you do compare them on the same level, then do you then think the idea of buying SP is ok? I'm just curious.
Its not a matter if its ok or not. it exists already with some camouflage that confounds the minds of idiots. But its there already. PLEX is both RMT and instant gratification that people loathe here. But of course, since its allowed they use it without ever thinking twice.
Still defeats any sort of argument against pay to win. PLEX must be the reason CCP felt so confident about introducing MT to game. They knew players embraced that already through PLEX even if indirectly.
You are an idiot.
It has been spelled out in excruciating detail how the character bazaar is not the same as buying SP for cash. If you still fail to understand then it's not a problem with the arguments but with your ability to process information.
Just how much is CCP paying you people to try and push this nonsense anyway?
This looks for all the world like a PR campaign to me.
Well it won't work, You can claim that selling a plex for isk and using that isk to buy a character from the bazaar is the same as buying SP directly from SP until the sun burns out and it won't make that argument right.
The point remains that under the current system no game mechanics are by passed and all the SP and ISK involved are generated over time by normal game play.
Selling SP directly for cash does bypass said game play/
Because in one case nothing is added into the game world that wasn't already there and in the other something is.
And that's a world of difference. |
Maverick2011
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2011.07.08 14:29:00 -
[118]
Edited by: Maverick2011 on 08/07/2011 14:33:10
Originally by: Skex Relbore Edited by: Skex Relbore on 08/07/2011 14:24:16
Originally by: Maverick2011
Originally by: White Tree So how many of you equate the buying of characters with the buying of SP, and if you do compare them on the same level, then do you then think the idea of buying SP is ok? I'm just curious.
Its not a matter if its ok or not. it exists already with some camouflage that confounds the minds of idiots. But its there already. PLEX is both RMT and instant gratification that people loathe here. But of course, since its allowed they use it without ever thinking twice.
Still defeats any sort of argument against pay to win. PLEX must be the reason CCP felt so confident about introducing MT to game. They knew players embraced that already through PLEX even if indirectly.
You are an idiot.
It has been spelled out in excruciating detail how the character bazaar is not the same as buying SP for cash. If you still fail to understand then it's not a problem with the arguments but with your ability to process information.
Just how much is CCP paying you people to try and push this nonsense anyway?
This looks for all the world like a PR campaign to me.
Well it won't work, You can claim that selling a plex for isk and using that isk to buy a character from the bazaar is the same as buying SP directly from SP until the sun burns out and it won't make that argument right.
The point remains that under the current system no game mechanics are by passed and all the SP and ISK involved are generated over time by normal game play.
Selling SP directly for cash does bypass said game play/
Because in one case nothing is added into the game world that wasn't already there and in the other something is.
And that's a world of difference.
Who gives a **** of your ****** world of difference, learn to read:
He bought PLEX
He sold for ISK
He bought SP with ISK
You cant understand three lines, you are an idiot, go back to your delusional world of truth while facts dominate the game. A newbie starting with 53million sp.
That's what happened. The name of the character, the reputation its all imbecile arguments as he can stay in a NPC corp and solo play using that to boost other accounts fast. If you don't like it whatever. He just did it against you liking or not. |
StillBorn CrackBaby
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Posted - 2011.07.08 14:30:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Skex Relbore Just how much is CCP paying you people to try and push this nonsense anyway?
Geez that line is getting lame already. So is the "You must be a CCP alt"
Think up some new insults. Feel free to use them on me. But I said new, not the same old Troll, Idiot, Clueless, etc, etc... |
Simetraz
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Posted - 2011.07.08 14:34:00 -
[120]
Today we have Alliance - today we are flying Amarr T2 fitted BS's One month later, okay Now we fly Minmatar fitted BS's
Nothing incredible there you train accordingly for each ship and the alliances know it takes time to complete.
Purchase SP Alliance rule - All players will be max trained on the current Alliance ships and fits, purchase SP's if you have to there will be no excuses. Anyone who doesn't meet the requirements will be kicked.
I know some will say that no alliance would do that. Actually I can think of several Large alliances that could and would to the point of purchasing the SP's for their players.
SO now, not only can large alliances purchase all the ships they want, now they can instantly train all there members. And for those that can't afford it , well........
There is no up side to purchasing SP |
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