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Lady Spank
Amarr
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.07.24 11:34:00 -
[1]
Problem:
Since the keyboard shortcut revamp the CTRL key's behaviour has been atrocious. Not even simply unintuitive, it is working it's damnedest against the player. There were several bugs / fixes to it which made me believe it was going to be 'fixed' back to how it was before the shortcut updates but it's evident now that the current functionality is 'intended'.
The old behaviour for the control key was as a modifier for other actions. For example, CTRL + LMB on the overview or a bracket would lock that target. This is how the key is normally used by 99% of software and is how people expect it to behave.
CTRL on its own would freeze up the overview so target selection was easier on a busy grid where the overview could jump about as new targets appear / come into range etc.
This was intuitive and practical in it's behaviour.
The new behaviour is a disaster. Yes, CTRL + LMB still will target a ship you select but now, CTRL on it's own will target whatever bracket or overview target has focus. This is causing problems for a lot of people.
Furthermore there are many other keyboard shortcuts that rely on hitting CTRL and another key. With the current behaviour there's a very good chance you will end up not only activating the shortcut you wanted, but also targetting a stargate, or random ship.
Why is it a problem?
Aside from the fact it is frustrating, in a combat, or even in a PVE environment this works against you and can even lead to you getting killed.
Targeting a stargate or non-hostile by mistake is undesirable not only because you are wasting one of your target slots, you could shoot at the wrong thing. Even simply yellow-boxing the wrong hostile ship in a fleet situation can lead to you getting primaried. Yes mistakes happen and you can easily do this yourself accidentally but to have the games keyboard shortcuts working directly against you is simply poor interface design.
This is unacceptable and needs to be reverted.
Furthermore, the alt key as default for 'look at' interferes with anyone that runs several client or even wishes to alt tab to a browser window from time to time. Fortunately this can be disabled simply enough but it is another example of the poor 'improvements' that were made.
In closing I propose the CTRL key is reverted to its former functionality where on it's own it would freeze the overview, and CTRL + left mouse click was needed in order to actually lock a target.
Thank you for reading.
~~~
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Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.24 13:12:00 -
[2]
Supported.
Maybe they fixed it, because it wasn't broken?
 Originally by: CCP Zulu
Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience.
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Seamus Donohue
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Posted - 2011.07.24 13:32:00 -
[3]
Supported in principle, but I do not support the specific backstep to the old functionality. As an alternative, I propose the following:
If the user-specified shortcut is only a modifier key or a combination of modifier keys...
...then the designated action should only be performed when the left mouse button is clicked on a valid target while the modifier key combination is being held. This will be irrespective of wether the background has focus or the overview has focus, since the act of left-mouse-clicking simultaneously sets the focus, anyway.
For example, the user designates Control as TOGGLE LOCK TARGET. Overview has focus, and something was previously clicked in the Overview. Pressing Control, or pressing and holding Control, should do nothing. Pressing and holding Control and then left-mouse-clicking something in the Overview should lock the target.
If the user-specified shortcut includes a non-modifier key...
...then the designated action should be performed when the key combination is pressed and released while a target is pre-selected or when the key combination is pressed and held and then followed by a left-mouse-click on a valid target. This should be made to work regardless of whether the background or the Overview has focus.
For example, the user designates A as ALIGN TO and W as WARP TO. The user emerges from Olbra Stargate(Jondik), that is, the user just jumped from Jondik into Olbra and is holding gatecloak. The user then left-mouse-clicks and releases on the bracket-in-space for Stargate(Eystur) so that Stargate(Eystur) is selected and the background has focus. The user then presses and releases A; this should make the ship align to Stargate(Eystur). The user then presses and holds W; because W is still being held, this is not a complete command, and the ship does nothing.
The user can then either release W, which is a command to warp to Stargate(Eystur), or keep holding W and left-mouse-click-and-release in the Overview on the row for Stargate(Altrinur), which is a command to warp to Stargate(Altrinur); obviously, this will take time, since the ship wasn't aligned to Stargate(Altrinur).
_____
SURVIVOR of Teskanen, fan of John Rourke.
The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated |
Tuggboat
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.24 14:00:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Tuggboat on 24/07/2011 14:02:02
KINDA hard to follow SD but the warp to on release sets off a lot of bells and whistles.
Pressing a key should activate a function, releasing a key should cease a function, so as to stay consistent. You realize if you press your w key to preload a warp and your fc cancels warp that your kinda in a pickle? When you release that key Something is going to happen. THis idea might work real nice on your personal programmed keyboard. DOn't think its good for the masses though.
Big Fan of KISS. Things should be no more complicated than they need to be. I think UI team tried to add some slick functionality like you described but its better for inteligent keyboards and such. We need intuitive response on the ui before programable. Even with programmable keyboards, functions are difficult to sort and standardize.
SOmething should be done though. Ive read a few of these threads and still find myself flying in odd direction, NOT targeting who I want as LS mentioned. I'm generally flailing like a noob. Once something worked that was slick, probably worked as intended. Just as your warp on release key could be nice for certain.
Revert would be better than nothing, CCP documentation would be nice too. Does any exist anywhere?
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Asm Khurelem
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Posted - 2011.07.24 16:20:00 -
[5]
That, or at least make it not activate with other things at the same time...
KEYUP =/= KEYDOWN. mmk?
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Laechyd Eldgorn
draketrain
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Posted - 2011.07.24 16:22:00 -
[6]
confirming targeting is bull**** atm
also when multiboxing clients do some totally weird stuff while switching windows. totally wrong windows are opening etc. imagine when you have map loading in middle of fight.
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Asm Khurelem
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Posted - 2011.07.24 16:24:00 -
[7]
That's because when you alt-tab, it does a look at because of the keyup/down issue. :(
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2011.07.24 16:28:00 -
[8]
I shouldn't have to support this thread, it's a goddamn disaster this new 'feature' even exist. But, supported.
-
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EdwardNardella
Capital Construction Research
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Posted - 2011.07.24 16:44:00 -
[9]
Supported, I don't like targeting friendly carriers.
CCRES is recruiting pilots who want to live in WSpace/Wormholes. Fill out an application here! |
AndrewNardella
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Posted - 2011.07.24 16:46:00 -
[10]
Supported, I don't like targeting sleeper structures
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OrlandoNardella
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Posted - 2011.07.24 16:47:00 -
[11]
I don't like targeting wormholes by accident either.
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HarperNardella
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Posted - 2011.07.24 16:48:00 -
[12]
I don't like living in fear of pressing the ctrl key to freeze my overview.
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IcarusNardella
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Posted - 2011.07.24 16:50:00 -
[13]
The functionality should be split between two keys and you should be able to map them both to the same key should you choose.
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UlyssesNardella
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Posted - 2011.07.24 16:52:00 -
[14]
In fact, you should be able to map as many functions to a single key as you want.
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Rutger Centemus
Phantom Squad
Atlas.
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Posted - 2011.07.24 17:26:00 -
[15]
Supported. Sort this out, ffs.
Originally by: Crumplecorn
I prefer launching bathtubs of antimatter at my opponents over pointing an open DVD player at them, even if the bathtubs do miss a lot. So no.
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RadioControlled
Joint Empire Squad
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Posted - 2011.07.24 17:27:00 -
[16]
Edited by: RadioControlled on 24/07/2011 17:29:19
.
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Flo Unda
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Posted - 2011.07.24 17:28:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Flo Unda on 24/07/2011 17:29:41
Supported.
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Testah McTest
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Posted - 2011.07.24 17:29:00 -
[18]
+1
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Shadow Lord77
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Posted - 2011.07.24 17:36:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Shadow Lord77 on 24/07/2011 17:36:04
Supported. Make it an option.
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Yun Kuai
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Posted - 2011.07.24 20:09:00 -
[20]
Suppored. If i shoot one more freaking gate instead of the target bc of the dam ctrl key acting reatarded I'm gonna emo rage quit. Fix your stupid mistakes CCP.
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Tsubutai
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2011.07.24 20:45:00 -
[21]
.
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Naomi Wildfire
Spricer
Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.07.24 21:18:00 -
[22]
Supported, its just awefull how many times i locked something different and it even gets worse if you multibox.
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Mystical Might
The Imperial Fedaykin
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Posted - 2011.07.24 23:59:00 -
[23]
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Shasz
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Warped Aggression
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Posted - 2011.07.25 00:17:00 -
[24]
Supported.
Turn the modifier keys back into modifiers, like 98.6% of the rest of the programming world.
___________________________________
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Krakaan Byzantia
Bolt Action Drive by
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Posted - 2011.07.25 01:01:00 -
[25]
For Cripes Sakes supported. Coming back to eve was a shocker and to find out my old and trusted Ctrl + Click no longer functioned properly was annoying.
--------------------------------------------------
This world is kill or be killed never forget it. |
Phlyk
The VonBraun Institute
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Posted - 2011.07.25 07:10:00 -
[26]
Supported. The controls used to make sense, be reliable and seem intuitive.
Now they do not. Fix (unfix?) please.
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dethleffs
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
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Posted - 2011.07.25 10:16:00 -
[27]
supported!
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Lidia Prince
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Posted - 2011.07.25 13:05:00 -
[28]
This Ctrl thing really ****es me off.
Posting seriously in troll threads since... couple months ago. |
Ya Huei
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Posted - 2011.07.25 13:54:00 -
[29]
fix plx
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2011.07.25 14:46:00 -
[30]
supported,
remove this cr*p! |
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Diesel47
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Posted - 2011.07.25 15:24:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Robert Caldera
supported,
remove this cr*p!
You didn't actually support.
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War Kitten
Panda McLegion
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Posted - 2011.07.25 16:41:00 -
[32]
Edited by: War Kitten on 25/07/2011 16:41:33
Supported - FIX IT! |
Keras Authion
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2011.07.25 18:03:00 -
[33]
Supported.
It's annoying to have control target something except when it doesn't and alt disorients in battle. Fix please.
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Banedon Runestar
Gravity Mining and Manufacturing Inc
The Company LLC
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Posted - 2011.07.25 18:23:00 -
[34]
+1
______________________
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Puternic Fulger
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Posted - 2011.07.25 21:27:00 -
[35]
This drives me nuts, and one day it'll get me killed...
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Zoe Ardent
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Posted - 2011.07.26 07:36:00 -
[36]
Annoying as hell ! |
Asm Khurelem
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Posted - 2011.07.26 17:04:00 -
[37]
Still working as intended? :( |
Holset
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Posted - 2011.07.27 02:18:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Holset on 27/07/2011 02:18:22
Supported.
I target at least 3 acceleration gates a night.  I never noticed that the overview froze when ctrl was pressed before, but considering how insanely handy that is, I can't believe they got rid of it.
Dunno how relevant it is, but having to click back outside the drone window for drone commands to be comprehended is also pretty annoying. At least let the drone hotkeys still work when the drone window is highlighted...
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Weeble Tauri
Battle Cattle
Subspace Exploration Agency
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Posted - 2011.07.27 04:10:00 -
[39]
+1
In a mission, I double click the next accel gate to approach it, then start the ctrl+click down the overview to lock enemies.
Oops, locked the gate too, now my hot weapons want to start pounding the accel gate and I've wasted a targeting slot.
Please fix.
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Lady Spank
Amarr
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.07.27 18:53:00 -
[40]
Thank you for the support so far people. It's clear this affects people from all walks of life.
~~~
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eocsnesemaj
Keskerakond
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Posted - 2011.07.28 17:06:00 -
[41]
suppported this trgting things i was just lookin at is getting to me.....
http://tinyurl.com/EostSig |
Vivian Ne
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Posted - 2011.07.28 17:40:00 -
[42]
Insanely annoying and highly dangerous. Needs to be fixed ASAP.
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Reaver Glitterstim
Legio Geminatus
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Posted - 2011.07.28 22:38:00 -
[43]
--
Thousand Papercuts Project |
gallente sux
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Posted - 2011.07.29 08:05:00 -
[44]
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Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
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Posted - 2011.07.29 10:21:00 -
[45]
Fully supoported.... I really don't understand why it was changed. It was working just fine as it was.
---
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum
I can tell you that this is one of the moments when we look at what those at CCP will do and less of what they say. |
pyth3
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Posted - 2011.07.29 16:05:00 -
[46]
Absolutely support. The change to ctrl key functionality is horrible.
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zombiedeadhead
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2011.07.29 17:07:00 -
[47]
Thank you Spank for speaking up for truth and justice.
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Spikeflach
The Drake Project
Drake Directorate
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Posted - 2011.07.29 17:11:00 -
[48]
Why wouldn't a person just open the escape menu, select the shortcut tab, select the combat tab, select the lock target shortcut and click the clear shortcut button?
A person can change it to any other key if the targeting with keyboard is still needed.
Unless the control key still causes problems when it isn't set as a shortcut?
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Lady Spank
Amarr
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.07.29 17:17:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Spikeflach
Why wouldn't a person just open the escape menu, select the shortcut tab, select the combat tab, select the lock target shortcut and click the clear shortcut button?
A person can change it to any other key if the targeting with keyboard is still needed.
Unless the control key still causes problems when it isn't set as a shortcut?
This would stop the random locking of ships when using a CTRL+'whatever' shortcut.
What it wouldn't fix is the usability that existed prior to the keyboard shortcut changes and you just end up with a different key with has exactly the same problems.
1. Cannot freeze overview without risk of locking a random ship
2. Cannot 'function key' + left click to targets ships of your choosing without risk of a random object being locked.
~~~
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Spikeflach
The Drake Project
Drake Directorate
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Posted - 2011.07.29 17:27:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Lady Spank
Originally by: Spikeflach
Why wouldn't a person just open the escape menu, select the shortcut tab, select the combat tab, select the lock target shortcut and click the clear shortcut button?
A person can change it to any other key if the targeting with keyboard is still needed.
Unless the control key still causes problems when it isn't set as a shortcut?
This would stop the random locking of ships when using a CTRL+'whatever' shortcut.
What it wouldn't fix is the usability that existed prior to the keyboard shortcut changes and you just end up with a different key with has exactly the same problems.
1. Cannot freeze overview without risk of locking a random ship
2. Cannot 'function key' + left click to targets ships of your choosing without risk of a random object being locked.
It doesn't randomly lock ships, it locks whatever you have selected in the overview if the overview has "focus".
If you haven't clicked in the overview and click out in space or some other window first so the overview isn't "in focus" then you can ctrl+left click stuff in space.
Or are we just talking about just having a shortcut that freezes the overview?
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Lady Spank
Amarr
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.07.29 17:31:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Spikeflach
It doesn't randomly lock ships, it locks whatever you have selected in the overview if the overview has "focus".
If you haven't clicked in the overview and click out in space or some other window first so the overview isn't "in focus" then you can ctrl+left click stuff in space.
Or are we just talking about just having a shortcut that freezes the overview?
We are talking about both. It is poorly implemented at present.
It might be acceptable for someone in a mission running corp such as yourself but even so there are plenty of mission runners that also find this frustrating. In a PVP situation it is highly unintuitive and liable to get you killed.
~~~
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Spikeflach
The Drake Project
Drake Directorate
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Posted - 2011.07.29 17:37:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Lady Spank
We are talking about both. It is poorly implemented at present.
It might be acceptable for someone in a mission running corp such as yourself but even so there are plenty of mission runners that also find this frustrating. In a PVP situation it is highly unintuitive and liable to get you killed.
Ok, so am I to understand that the Freezing ability and the locking ability come as a package with this shortcut?
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Takamori Maruyama
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2011.07.29 18:32:00 -
[53]
Can we haz a fix please?
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
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Posted - 2011.07.29 19:43:00 -
[54]
ctrl and alt... both modifier keys should act "on release" if commands are programmed directly to them.
also option to disable entire "apply functions to item which is selectd from overview" would be really kewl.
---
This is one of the moments where we look at what CCP does and less of what they say. Innovation takes time to set in and the predictable reaction is always to resist change |
Malak Alraheem
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.29 19:44:00 -
[55]
+1
I'll come back in six months and see if they fixed it or not.
.
I'm as mad as I can take it and I'm not going to hell anymore!
I have reassigned my money for CCP to other projects for the next 18 months... |
LittleTerror
MAFIA
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Posted - 2011.07.30 11:03:00 -
[56]
.
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ma perke
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Posted - 2011.07.30 11:03:00 -
[57]
bump +1
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Umad Ostus
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Posted - 2011.07.30 11:04:00 -
[58]
Also, CTRL+Spamclicking bottom on overview and also dropping a bubble doesnt work anymore since all other action keys are locked when CTRL is clicked now.
At least give us the ability to assign multiple hotkeys to one action.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.07.30 11:05:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Seamus Donohue
Supported in principle, but I do not support the specific backstep to the old functionality. As an alternative, I propose the following:
[blah blah blah]
Wow! That's an awfully long way of saying, "Ctrl should only act as a modifier key" :)
Which is what Lady Spank is saying.
And is what Ctrl has been used for ever since the silly key was invented in the first place.
Sometimes, CCP, it pays to do things exactly the same as everyone else, in order to help your users (and especially people new to the game) fly their ships reliably and experience the least possible frustration with this game. This is called principle of least surprise.
[ Australian players join channel ANZAC ] |
Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.07.30 11:16:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Spikeflach
It doesn't randomly lock ships, it locks whatever you have selected in the overview if the overview has "focus".
It locks whatever has focus at this time. That may or may not be what you clicked on in the overview just now. As an example, say you just warped into a mission space, clicked on your fleetmate in space and selected "approach". Now you want to target the bad guys. If you do the obvious thing and start Ctrl+Clicking things, you'll end up targeting your fleetmate first, then everything you click after the first thing you Ctrl+Clicked.
Quote:
Or are we just talking about just having a shortcut that freezes the overview?
That's a separate issue.
What we are talking about is the misuse of the Ctrl modifier key to become a post-action-command key, where you have to Click then press Ctrl.
Ctrl is a modifier key, and changing its behaviour from what people are used to throughout every other UI on the planet makes EVE that much harder to play and like (and thus, keep playing). CCP will most likely not get the answer "your UI is screwed up" on exit surveys, they'll just hear, "I don't like it."
[ Australian players join channel ANZAC ] |
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Captain Megadeath
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Posted - 2011.07.30 11:18:00 -
[61]
Supported
One is not a happy teddybear. 
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.07.30 11:18:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Spikeflach
Why wouldn't a person just open the escape menu, select the shortcut tab, select the combat tab, select the lock target shortcut and click the clear shortcut button?
What?
And target ships by selecting them, then clicking the "target selected item" button in the "selected item" box?
Or is there some other way of targeting things? That's a genuine question.
[ Australian players join channel ANZAC ] |
dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.07.30 11:29:00 -
[63]
+1
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2011.07.30 11:33:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Cearain on 30/07/2011 11:33:28
-Cearain
Make fw pvp not pve
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1 |
VE3DVY
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Posted - 2011.07.30 11:39:00 -
[65]
Supported. I'm tired of targeting acceleration gates.
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crastar
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Posted - 2011.07.30 12:00:00 -
[66]
supported |
Utsen Dari
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Posted - 2011.07.30 14:29:00 -
[67]
Supported. I, too, am sick of having to carefully select a distant planet before thinking about targeting anything with my scram hot, to avoid accidentally CONCORDing myself.
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HopeAndFear
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Posted - 2011.07.30 16:06:00 -
[68]
How this got deployed is beyond any reasonable explanation. I noticed it within minutes of log-in after that patch and it has been driving me nuts ever since. It's been a helluva long time, I've forgotten what its like to target something without having to do some voodoo on the ctrl key while frantically clicking in the overview. Fix this crap before I break my keyboard out of sheer frustration. |
Spikeflach
The Drake Project
Drake Directorate
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Posted - 2011.07.30 16:33:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
That's a separate issue.
What we are talking about is the misuse of the Ctrl modifier key to become a post-action-command key, where you have to Click then press Ctrl.
Ctrl is a modifier key, and changing its behaviour from what people are used to throughout every other UI on the planet makes EVE that much harder to play and like (and thus, keep playing). CCP will most likely not get the answer "your UI is screwed up" on exit surveys, they'll just hear, "I don't like it."
Ok, so people want the control key to only do what it does by holding the key and clicking targets. The ability to click your targets and press a key to target afterwards is something people don't want.
I can kinda see that. But I feel you go back to the idea where a person can just remove the control key as the shortcut to target.
I mean if you remove the control key as being an entirely separate shortcut button you can use it as a modifier for any other shortcuts you have without the problem of "targeting" whatever you have selected when trying to use another shortcut.
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Lady Spank
Amarr
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.07.30 17:35:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Spikeflach
Originally by: Mara Rinn
That's a separate issue.
What we are talking about is the misuse of the Ctrl modifier key to become a post-action-command key, where you have to Click then press Ctrl.
Ctrl is a modifier key, and changing its behaviour from what people are used to throughout every other UI on the planet makes EVE that much harder to play and like (and thus, keep playing). CCP will most likely not get the answer "your UI is screwed up" on exit surveys, they'll just hear, "I don't like it."
Ok, so people want the control key to only do what it does by holding the key and clicking targets. The ability to click your targets and press a key to target afterwards is something people don't want.
I can kinda see that. But I feel you go back to the idea where a person can just remove the control key as the shortcut to target.
I mean if you remove the control key as being an entirely separate shortcut button you can use it as a modifier for any other shortcuts you have without the problem of "targeting" whatever you have selected when trying to use another shortcut.
Yet again, all this does is shift the problem over to a different key and does not return the previously useful functionality.
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Spikeflach
The Drake Project
Drake Directorate
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Posted - 2011.07.30 18:28:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Lady Spank
Originally by: Spikeflach
Originally by: Mara Rinn
That's a separate issue.
What we are talking about is the misuse of the Ctrl modifier key to become a post-action-command key, where you have to Click then press Ctrl.
Ctrl is a modifier key, and changing its behaviour from what people are used to throughout every other UI on the planet makes EVE that much harder to play and like (and thus, keep playing). CCP will most likely not get the answer "your UI is screwed up" on exit surveys, they'll just hear, "I don't like it."
Ok, so people want the control key to only do what it does by holding the key and clicking targets. The ability to click your targets and press a key to target afterwards is something people don't want.
I can kinda see that. But I feel you go back to the idea where a person can just remove the control key as the shortcut to target.
I mean if you remove the control key as being an entirely separate shortcut button you can use it as a modifier for any other shortcuts you have without the problem of "targeting" whatever you have selected when trying to use another shortcut.
Yet again, all this does is shift the problem over to a different key and does not return the previously useful functionality.
From just testing out the key, it appears to only target stuff selected in the overview when the overview is "in focus"
When I selected things out in space and then hit the control key nothing was targeted.
When I hold Control and click something in space it targets what I click in space.
I can hold control and click to target in the overview or I can click something in the overview and press control and it will target.
Might I ask if people have a shortcut set for "toggle lock target"? I'm not exactly sure what that shortcut does and haven't tested it.
From what I can tell is the problem is the fact that the overview is kept "in focus" when people press the control key and thus they target whatever the overview has selected.
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Hockston Axe
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Posted - 2011.07.31 02:36:00 -
[72]
simply poor interface design
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Lady Spank
Amarr
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.07.31 05:23:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Spikeflach
Might I ask if people have a shortcut set for "toggle lock target"? I'm not exactly sure what that shortcut does and haven't tested it.
Thanks for posting.
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Dana Dawn
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Posted - 2011.07.31 08:19:00 -
[74]
Supported.
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Vortex Steel
|
Posted - 2011.07.31 13:52:00 -
[75]
Agreed, your description of this issue is 100% accurate. I didn't even know this was the issue until I read this thread. I target random stuff all the time now! Supported.
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Electronic Monkey Wizard
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Posted - 2011.07.31 14:51:00 -
[76]
well written proposal and although I'm new I can tell the change (or revert) proposed would make much more sense.
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Shartifartblast
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.07.31 14:53:00 -
[77]
fully supported
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Klezmer
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
|
Posted - 2011.07.31 14:53:00 -
[78]
Lets get this sorted ASAP please
~
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Charlie Jacobson
|
Posted - 2011.08.01 03:13:00 -
[79]
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Toovhon
|
Posted - 2011.08.01 12:57:00 -
[80]
Revert +1
I'm really tired of accidentally locking stuff just cause I have it selected and use control.
--
The Door! |
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Terrorform
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Posted - 2011.08.01 15:12:00 -
[81]
Getting tired of locking acceleration gates.....
"My ambition is handicapped by laziness"
- Charles Bukowski |
Dev Rom
Masterminds Industries
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Posted - 2011.08.01 15:43:00 -
[82]
+1
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Rhadamantina
Azn Empire
|
Posted - 2011.08.01 20:32:00 -
[83]
+1
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Kitty McKitty
In Praise Of Shadows
|
Posted - 2011.08.01 23:30:00 -
[84]
SUPOPORTED |
Debir Achen
|
Posted - 2011.08.02 06:51:00 -
[85]
The converse also applies. Non-meta-keys should not function as meta keys.
Almost every other game (and app) on the planet uses an object-action syntax: you select the object on which you want to act, and then you press the button to choose the action. Not the other way around.
Consistent: I select a celestial, and then hit 'a' to align.
Inconsistent: I hit 'a' to align, and then align to the next thing I select (or to the thing I select when holding down 'a').
Use of the control meta (meta, not toggle) makes sense when I'm going to be doing the same thing to lots of different object in rapid succession (like locking). Even in such a case, holding down the meta key and not triggering an action (clicking, keystroke) should do either nothing or nothing significant.
In contrast, hotkeys make sense when you apply multiple actions to a single object. Like 'align' then 'warp'. Or F1, F2, F3 to fire off your scram, web and guns. But this requires hotkeys actually trigger the action, not function as modifier keys on an 'action-to-come'. |
Frank Truck
ACME Mineral and Gas
|
Posted - 2011.08.02 14:56:00 -
[86]
Or they could just use the key up event like every other program on the planet...
*facepalm*
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Melina Lin
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Posted - 2011.08.02 21:27:00 -
[87]
Supported. The gates are not my enemy! 
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James Trix
|
Posted - 2011.08.03 20:56:00 -
[88]
Come on CCP, when are you going to fix the problem with CTRL?
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Vidfarne
|
Posted - 2011.08.04 11:08:00 -
[89]
+1
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Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
|
Posted - 2011.08.04 18:47:00 -
[90]
CCP Veritas has addressed a five page thread concerning this issue (Source)
Originally by: CCP Veritas
Good news folks, the right guy to fix the problem is back from vacation and we're aiming to have this fixed in a client update on Tuesday.
~~~
Screenshot batch compression |
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blarghh
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Posted - 2011.08.04 22:53:00 -
[91]
+1
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Mulm
Burning Napalm
Northern Coalition.
|
Posted - 2011.08.05 05:49:00 -
[92]
So terrible.
Please unfix control key.
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Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
|
Posted - 2011.08.05 06:36:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Mulm
So terrible.
Please unfix control key.
Originally by: Lady Spank
CCP Veritas has addressed a five page thread concerning this issue (Source)
Originally by: CCP Veritas
Good news folks, the right guy to fix the problem is back from vacation and we're aiming to have this fixed in a client update on Tuesday.
Just to bring this update to the new page since it's stuck on the bottom of the last one.
~~~
Screenshot batch compression |
Dawnmist
|
Posted - 2011.08.07 00:58:00 -
[94]
+1 |
Valor D'eglise
Gallente
Red Cross Of Gallente Federation
|
Posted - 2011.08.08 15:52:00 -
[95]
Pachlogs for tomorrow's update shows that this will be history by tomorrow after DT.
...hopefully.
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Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
|
Posted - 2011.08.08 23:08:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Valor D'eglise
Pachlogs for tomorrow's update shows that this will be history by tomorrow after DT.
...hopefully.
Well... we will see. It doesn't sound like it truly returns previous functionality but the patch note explanation is in the usually obscure CCP syntax.
Fingers crossed though and even a step in the right direction is a start 
~~~
Screenshot batch compression |
Kolya Medz
PyroStorm Enforcers
STR8NGE BREW
|
Posted - 2011.08.08 23:53:00 -
[97]
Supported
This is a sig. |
Lanu
0utbreak
Outbreak.
|
Posted - 2011.08.09 15:00:00 -
[98]
Very annoying please fix!
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Uncle henk
|
Posted - 2011.08.09 15:01:00 -
[99]
Please fix this.
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Myrkinia
|
Posted - 2011.08.09 15:03:00 -
[100]
Requesting fix!
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Anarchistia
|
Posted - 2011.08.09 15:03:00 -
[101]
This was supposed to be fixed soonish right? Any eta?
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Addaxia
|
Posted - 2011.08.09 15:04:00 -
[102]
+1
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Thiev Terminator
|
Posted - 2011.08.09 15:04:00 -
[103]
+1
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Morgenster
|
Posted - 2011.08.09 15:05:00 -
[104]
+2?
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Aqualonda
FLA5HY RED
|
Posted - 2011.08.09 17:37:00 -
[105]
Supported.
---
Audaces fortuna iuvat |
Valor D'eglise
Gallente
Red Cross Of Gallente Federation
|
Posted - 2011.08.09 18:31:00 -
[106]
Old behavior is back.
God, so relieved. Was about time!
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
|
Posted - 2011.08.09 21:47:00 -
[107]
Aye - Thanks with small reservation.
---
This is one of the moments where we look at what CCP does and less of what they say. Innovation takes time to set in and the predictable reaction is always to resist change |
Morar Santee
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Posted - 2011.08.09 23:30:00 -
[108]
For the longest time I thought this was a bug.
If it is seriously intended... I have no words.
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Morar Santee
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Posted - 2011.08.09 23:32:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Valor D'eglise
Old behavior is back.
God, so relieved. Was about time!
No, it is not back. Pressing ctrl will still lock up **** at random if your overview is the active window. Without LMB. This is bad and counterproductive in 100% of the situations in which you actually want to lock something. And in 100% of the situations when you don't want to lock something, too, obviously.
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Crystal Liche
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Posted - 2011.08.10 00:17:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Crystal Liche on 10/08/2011 00:17:40
Originally by: Morar Santee
Originally by: Valor D'eglise
Old behavior is back.
God, so relieved. Was about time!
No, it is not back. Pressing ctrl will still lock up **** at random if your overview is the active window. Without LMB. This is bad and counterproductive in 100% of the situations in which you actually want to lock something. And in 100% of the situations when you don't want to lock something, too, obviously.
Umm, if your overview is active and you have an object highlighted control is SUPPOSED to do that 
Seems to work awesome now.
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Morar Santee
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Posted - 2011.08.10 01:46:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Crystal Liche
Edited by: Crystal Liche on 10/08/2011 00:17:40
Originally by: Morar Santee
Originally by: Valor D'eglise
Old behavior is back.
God, so relieved. Was about time!
No, it is not back. Pressing ctrl will still lock up **** at random if your overview is the active window. Without LMB. This is bad and counterproductive in 100% of the situations in which you actually want to lock something. And in 100% of the situations when you don't want to lock something, too, obviously.
Umm, if your overview is active and you have an object highlighted control is SUPPOSED to do that
Seems to work awesome now.
That's the point, it's NOT supposed to lock unless you press CTRL + LMB. It's completely ******ed to get a lock by pressing CTRL when your overview is the active window. If I'm waiting at a gate, someone jumps in and I press CTRL waiting for him to de-cloak, I now automatically get a lock on **** knows what if my overview is active window. Why? I don't know. Do you? Does it make sense in any way to get a lock on WHATEVER the **** is highlighted in my overview just because I press a button I have to press to lock something else?
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MNagy
|
Posted - 2011.08.10 02:45:00 -
[112]
My target got away.
I clicked ctrl and also locked onto a gate.
Since I ran the scrammers hot, and the 'gate' was the first to lock on- the scrammers wanted to scram the jump gate.
Thus - the target got away.
I hate that ctrl key issue.
M.
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
draketrain
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Posted - 2011.08.10 06:17:00 -
[113]
fix this ****ing key
fire dust staff
fire station staff
hire ONE real programmer to fix ctrl key
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Lady Spank
In Praise Of Shadows
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Posted - 2011.08.10 12:44:00 -
[114]
Patch changed downstroke behaviour to upstroke.
This is not a fix.
Can we have a real fix on this please.
~~~
Screenshot batch compression |
Wile EC
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Posted - 2011.08.10 15:05:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Lady Spank
Patch changed downstroke behaviour to upstroke.
This is not a fix.
Can we have a real fix on this please.
That is the real fix, where did you learn to program?
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Frank Truck
ACME Mineral and Gas
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Posted - 2011.08.10 15:09:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Morar Santee
Originally by: Crystal Liche
Edited by: Crystal Liche on 10/08/2011 00:17:40
Originally by: Morar Santee
Originally by: Valor D'eglise
Old behavior is back.
God, so relieved. Was about time!
No, it is not back. Pressing ctrl will still lock up **** at random if your overview is the active window. Without LMB. This is bad and counterproductive in 100% of the situations in which you actually want to lock something. And in 100% of the situations when you don't want to lock something, too, obviously.
Umm, if your overview is active and you have an object highlighted control is SUPPOSED to do that
Seems to work awesome now.
That's the point, it's NOT supposed to lock unless you press CTRL + LMB. It's completely ******ed to get a lock by pressing CTRL when your overview is the active window. If I'm waiting at a gate, someone jumps in and I press CTRL waiting for him to de-cloak, I now automatically get a lock on **** knows what if my overview is active window. Why? I don't know. Do you? Does it make sense in any way to get a lock on WHATEVER the **** is highlighted in my overview just because I press a button I have to press to lock something else?
Actually it is supposed to lock if overview has focus, it has been that was for years, you din't notice this?
Maybe you should undock.
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
|
Posted - 2011.08.10 19:47:00 -
[117]
Edited by: Grey Stormshadow on 10/08/2011 19:51:20
Quote:
-stuff-
No, it is not back. Pressing ctrl will still lock up **** at random if your overview is the active window. Without LMB.
-stuff-
Umm, if your overview is active and you have an object highlighted control is SUPPOSED to do that
-stuff-
Seems to work awesome now.
-stuff-
That's the point, it's NOT supposed to lock unless you press CTRL + LMB. It's completely ******ed to get a lock by pressing CTRL when your overview is the active window.
-stuff-
Does it make sense in any way to get a lock on WHATEVER the **** is highlighted in my overview just because I press a button I have to press to lock something else?
-stuff-
Actually it is supposed to lock if overview has focus, it has been that was for years, you din't notice this?
-stuff-
Well tbh sending shortcut actions to item which is active in focused overview IS rather NEW feature. It has not been like this for years. It has been like this since we were given ability to configure shortcut keys.
I am really hoping for esc menu option where you could disable "send shortcut actions to preselected overview item" feature. Disabling it permanently would not be solution, because another part of community wants the feature. That is why it was implemented in 1st place. However it should have been optional.
...so lets hope for "option" as disabling this feature is fix for some, but others still want to have it.
---
This is one of the moments where we look at what CCP does and less of what they say. Innovation takes time to set in and the predictable reaction is always to resist change |
Aramis Rosicrux
Ordo Rosa Crux Templaris
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Posted - 2011.08.10 19:57:00 -
[118]
Edited by: Aramis Rosicrux on 10/08/2011 19:59:18
Lady Spank is right! The fix was no fix!!
CCP, this decision was a move away from dependable user interface, towards less user control that can lead to a dangerous result.
Who thought we needed the function of the Control key to be changed?
Please return the correct, perfect and expected behavior to the Control key!
Thank you,
Aramis Rosicrux
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Morar Santee
|
Posted - 2011.08.10 20:44:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Grey Stormshadow
Edited by: Grey Stormshadow on 10/08/2011 19:51:20
Quote:
-stuff-
No, it is not back. Pressing ctrl will still lock up **** at random if your overview is the active window. Without LMB.
-stuff-
Umm, if your overview is active and you have an object highlighted control is SUPPOSED to do that
-stuff-
Seems to work awesome now.
-stuff-
That's the point, it's NOT supposed to lock unless you press CTRL + LMB. It's completely ******ed to get a lock by pressing CTRL when your overview is the active window.
-stuff-
Does it make sense in any way to get a lock on WHATEVER the **** is highlighted in my overview just because I press a button I have to press to lock something else?
-stuff-
Actually it is supposed to lock if overview has focus, it has been that was for years, you din't notice this?
-stuff-
Well tbh sending shortcut actions to item which is active in focused overview IS rather NEW feature. It has not been like this for years. It has been like this since we were given ability to configure shortcut keys.
I am really hoping for esc menu option where you could disable "send shortcut actions to preselected overview item" feature. Disabling it permanently would not be solution, because another part of community wants the feature. That is why it was implemented in 1st place. However it should have been optional.
...so lets hope for "option" as disabling this feature is fix for some, but others still want to have it.
Thank you. By now I completely expect CCP to **** up completely arbitrarily and not know two ****s about their own game. But when you get these unqualified comments from community members, too, you're starting to lose hope.
Not that I really expect your clarification to make any difference whatsoever. More comments from pros in 3..2..1..
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Eizon Amarr
|
Posted - 2011.08.16 19:27:00 -
[120]
Supported, generally. I like the new more customisable hotkeys, but the behavior of the modifier keys right now is borked as ****.
In addition to the problems Ms Spank outlined in the OP, trying to multibox across multiple screens is a royal pain in the arse. Control will not work to lock a target if that window does not already have focus, so I'm having to tediously click on the client to gain focus and then lock something then vice versa when I'm doing something on the other client, annoying and time wasting. Didn't take me long to unbind alt either.
Definately something for the BFF team to look at again in more depth.
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paritybit
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2011.08.16 20:42:00 -
[121]
Edited by: paritybit on 16/08/2011 20:44:46
Edited by: paritybit on 16/08/2011 20:43:25
I've lost count of the number of times I look like a moron because I shot the gate simply because I released the ctrl key at the wrong time and gave myself aggression so I couldn't jump with the rest of the gang.
Well, okay it hasn't happened that many times, but enough that it's a problem. Also, even multiboxing with windowed view causes the ctrl key to work incorrectly when selecting a new client window.
http://paritybit.wordpress.com |
MartyMorgy
Burning Napalm
Northern Coalition.
|
Posted - 2011.08.17 04:41:00 -
[122]
Rollback
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Mara Rinn
|
Posted - 2011.08.17 05:08:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Frank Truck
Actually it is supposed to lock if overview has focus, it has been that was for years, you din't notice this?
The problem for me is that a modifier key is being used as an action key when that modifier key is being used elsewhere as a modifier key.
This wouldn't be an issue if we could map "lock currently selected target" to some other key, and still have the Ctrl+Left-click to mean "lock the target I just pointed at".
Either it's a modifier key or an action key. It should never be both.
[ Australian players join channel ANZAC ] |
Wile EC
|
Posted - 2011.08.17 16:45:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Eizon Amarr
...trying to multibox across multiple screens is a royal pain in the arse. Control will not work to lock a target if that window does not already have focus, so I'm having to tediously click on the client to gain focus and then lock something then....
Umm, no key will go to the client if the client doesn't have focus, that is the way Windows works, welcome to multiboxing.
Anyway, old thread, they fixed this a week ago.
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Dub Step
Minmatar
Death To Everyone But Us
|
Posted - 2011.08.17 18:04:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Wile EC
Originally by: Eizon Amarr
...trying to multibox across multiple screens is a royal pain in the arse. Control will not work to lock a target if that window does not already have focus, so I'm having to tediously click on the client to gain focus and then lock something then....
Umm, no key will go to the client if the client doesn't have focus, that is the way Windows works, welcome to multiboxing.
Anyway, old thread, they fixed this a week ago.
No they didn't.
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Frank Truck
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Posted - 2011.08.18 14:43:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Dub Step
Originally by: Wile EC
Originally by: Eizon Amarr
...trying to multibox across multiple screens is a royal pain in the arse. Control will not work to lock a target if that window does not already have focus, so I'm having to tediously click on the client to gain focus and then lock something then....
Umm, no key will go to the client if the client doesn't have focus, that is the way Windows works, welcome to multiboxing.
Anyway, old thread, they fixed this a week ago.
No they didn't.
There was a whole patch dedicated to it, not downloading optional updates?
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Dub Step
Minmatar
Death To Everyone But Us
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 15:37:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Frank Truck
Originally by: Dub Step
Originally by: Wile EC
Originally by: Eizon Amarr
...trying to multibox across multiple screens is a royal pain in the arse. Control will not work to lock a target if that window does not already have focus, so I'm having to tediously click on the client to gain focus and then lock something then....
Umm, no key will go to the client if the client doesn't have focus, that is the way Windows works, welcome to multiboxing.
Anyway, old thread, they fixed this a week ago.
No they didn't.
There was a whole patch dedicated to it, not downloading optional updates?
Clueless much? That 'whole patch' changed a single buttons downstroke behaviour to upstroke and addressed nothing from the original suggestion in here.
It's a step in the right direction but it is not a proper fix.
Please read the thread before spouting complete crap.
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Frank Truck
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 15:47:00 -
[128]
I've read this, it is a amatuer idea to fix a simple coding mistake; which was fixed correctly by the devs.
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Newt Rondanse
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 19:56:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Frank Truck
I've read this, it is a amatuer idea to fix a simple coding mistake; which was fixed correctly by the devs.
Using a modifier key as a hotkey is a simple coding mistake, true, but it isn't one that's been fixed.
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Darryl Ward
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 20:05:00 -
[130]
Supported, the old behavior was fine and made sense. Bring it back.
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