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Rhedea Rhedea Corp	Posted - 2011.08.16 06:23:00 - [1] Edited by: Rhedea on 16/08/2011 06:31:47 Shrink the size of low-sec by increasing the range of hi-sec 1.0 to 0.3 and have null-sec alliances sov control over 0.1 and 0.2 This would force more pvpers into playing in Null-sec. Well sort of, because this idea makes as much sense as forcing non-pvper from hi-sec into low-sec/null-sec. Wow what a dumb idea!
Ryhss Caldari The Excecutorans	Posted - 2011.08.16 07:31:00 - [2] Edited by: Ryhss on 16/08/2011 07:31:11 STOP TRYING TO MOVE US TO NULL SEC AT ALL!
Dub Step Minmatar Death To Everyone But Us	Posted - 2011.08.16 08:29:00 - [3] No one is forcing you to low sec.
Thorn Galen Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.08.16 09:10:00 - [4] Edited by: Thorn Galen on 16/08/2011 09:11:11 Might as well ban the whole Alliance deal then. Alliances bring Corps together - they will not wardec each other, obviously. Alliances form alliances with other Alliances - this continues on and in time it all boils down to very few Alliances who actually wardec each other. Disable Alliances, that way every single Corp has to take care of itself. bwahahahahaha. Nerf High Sec, Nerf Low sec, my word, nothing ever makes people happy in this game. I WILL NOT PvP!! If I know that there is a human being on the other side of my BFG's, I will not fight! It is against my religion, yes, it seriously is against my religion, so don't try forcing change in game dymanics just because you are all bored of pew-pew'ing each other and need fresh "meat", which happens to be in HiSec. Even the Wild West had its share of Sheriff's and Rangers, but no, PvP must occur unhindered, unpunished, anywhere and everywhere, at any time ? LOL! Suicide gank a defenceless miner and you get to put stats up on a killboard ?? ROFL! No honour, no glory. Killboard stats where a player has popped dozens of Shuttles in one day ?? All obviously set-up, but it's a "kill"? LOL again. I even LOL at this post of mine for bothering to post on these forums, in this post. LOL! Troll along.
Kaethe Kollwitz	Posted - 2011.08.16 09:29:00 - [5] null sec sucks dongs. heres where its at in order of fun: High sec Wormhole Low sec Null sec I would literally rather go and play a crappy unfinished robot game than move to null.
Long John Silver	Posted - 2011.08.16 11:28:00 - [6] Easiest way to move folks into nullsec is to let concord police it.
Efraya Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.16 11:56:00 - [7] Originally by: Kaethe Kollwitz heres where its at in order of fun: High sec Wormhole Low sec Null sec We live in a sandbox, fun is what you make it. People have fun trading. They have fun mining. "Fun" is relative. Signature removed for not being EVE related. Zymurgist
Eight Sinn	Posted - 2011.08.16 21:03:00 - [8] Nullsec Noob question - Is the only way to live in nullsec to be part of a corp that has someplace to doc or are there places that a solo person can dock in nullsec?
Zyress	Posted - 2011.08.16 21:11:00 - [9] Originally by: Long John Silver Easiest way to move folks into nullsec is to let concord police it. Now there's an idea, take all the Faction Warfare guys and send them in a new direction, send the factions out conquering Nullsec, extending their empires
Exploited Engineer	Posted - 2011.08.16 21:15:00 - [10] Originally by: Eight Sinn Nullsec Noob question - Is the only way to live in nullsec to be part of a corp that has someplace to doc or are there places that a solo person can dock in nullsec? There's such a thing as "NPC nullsec". That's where many of the shiny pirate faction ships come from.
Akasha Dawn Worldbreaker	Posted - 2011.08.16 21:54:00 - [11] The reason i hate Null Sec. I log into EVE instantly someone is yelling at me in chat get in Vent/TS3/Mumble. I get in whatever. Someone i dont even really like is telling me get in X ship and go to X location and do X. I get to X and sit for 2-3 hours doing nothing but waiting. I did this for about a month then though to my self i am paying to do this? WTF. I am sure Null Sec is great but my time there sucked A**.
Jiska Ensa	Posted - 2011.08.16 22:02:00 - [12] Edited by: Jiska Ensa on 16/08/2011 22:05:03 Originally by: Akasha Dawn Worldbreaker The reason i hate Null Sec. I log into EVE instantly someone is yelling at me in chat get in Vent/TS3/Mumble. I get in whatever. Someone i dont even really like is telling me get in X ship and go to X location and do X. I get to X and sit for 2-3 hours doing nothing but waiting. I did this for about a month then though to my self i am paying to do this? WTF. I am sure Null Sec is great but my time there sucked A**. This. It may be a sandbox, but the sandbox is full of idiots peeing in it, then ordering you to clean it up for them. When alliances stop sucking, null-sec will stop sucking.
Jak Silverheart Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.17 00:06:00 - [13] Originally by: Jiska Ensa Edited by: Jiska Ensa on 16/08/2011 22:05:03 Originally by: Akasha Dawn Worldbreaker The reason i hate Null Sec. I log into EVE instantly someone is yelling at me in chat get in Vent/TS3/Mumble. I get in whatever. Someone i dont even really like is telling me get in X ship and go to X location and do X. I get to X and sit for 2-3 hours doing nothing but waiting. I did this for about a month then though to my self i am paying to do this? WTF. I am sure Null Sec is great but my time there sucked A**. This. It may be a sandbox, but the sandbox is full of idiots peeing in it, then ordering you to clean it up for them. When alliances stop sucking, null-sec will stop sucking. Thats actually why I haven't moved out to null sec yet. I lived in low sec early in my eve carreer, than moved back up to high sec. High sec is just easier for a casual player, none of that null sec drama of trying to chip into helping the corporation/alliance stuff. And I imagine it's far more difficult to procure supplies in null. Incarna, giving pilots a single room bachelor pad with a mirror and no beer since 6.21.2011
Blacksquirrel	Posted - 2011.08.17 01:24:00 - [14] Quote: I WILL NOT PvP!! If I know that there is a human being on the other side of my BFG's, I will not fight! It is against my religion, yes, it seriously is against my religion, so don't try forcing change in game dymanics just because you are all bored of pew-pew'ing each other and need fresh "meat", which happens to be in HiSec. It's against your religion to have a computer calculate shots fired based upon slight randomness against another person in a fact fictitious space craft? You can call it violence, but it's really not as no one is getting hurt. By this rational you can't play chess either. What religion mentions no fake violence against virtual fake space ships? I dont mean to troll, but I really am curious.
Herping yourDerp	Posted - 2011.08.17 01:28:00 - [15] Originally by: Eight Sinn Nullsec Noob question - Is the only way to live in nullsec to be part of a corp that has someplace to doc or are there places that a solo person can dock in nullsec? there is NPC nullsec stations, but its a crowded place, and in nullsec, seeing someone is bad unless you are looking for PVP... also chances are, they have friends near by
Ryhss Caldari The Excecutorans	Posted - 2011.08.17 01:35:00 - [16] Originally by: Dub Step No one is forcing you to low sec. CCP is trying to......
Cornullus Rage	Posted - 2011.08.17 02:13:00 - [17] Are any of you really going to undock from Jita 4-4?
Johnny Dexter	Posted - 2011.08.17 02:13:00 - [18] Originally by: Ryhss Originally by: Dub Step No one is forcing you to low sec. CCP is trying to...... Well yes, the entire design was to have high sec as a training ground before everyone move out to 0.0 for the "end game". Yet, 80% of the playerbase decide they'd rather do PvE - an absolute ****ing chore in EVE - for money they will realistically never put into good use because they don't lose any ships. I'm quite puzzled actually, if you're not interested in player conflict then why not play something like WoW that is a PvE game through and through, with great quest content all the way from level 1 to 85, raids etc.
dexington Caldari Baconoration	Posted - 2011.08.17 02:21:00 - [19] Originally by: Johnny Dexter Originally by: Ryhss Originally by: Dub Step No one is forcing you to low sec. CCP is trying to...... Well yes, the entire design was to have high sec as a training ground before everyone move out to 0.0 for the "end game". Yet, 80% of the playerbase decide they'd rather do PvE - an absolute ****ing chore in EVE - for money they will realistically never put into good use because they don't lose any ships. I'm quite puzzled actually, if you're not interested in player conflict then why not play something like WoW that is a PvE game through and through, with great quest content all the way from level 1 to 85, raids etc. Maybe they believed CCP's BS about eve being a sandbox game, with no end game and max character level
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.17 02:22:00 - [20] /move <playername> <system> ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Judge Ment BOOM BOOM POW	Posted - 2011.08.17 02:33:00 - [21] Simple give up on pirating like many other before you! And CCP has tried many times in the past. Its always DEAD, Get over IT already.. RELAX and KEEP IT SIMPLE ------------------------------------- We judge others by actions We judge ourselves by intentions.
Kengutsi Akira	Posted - 2011.08.17 02:45:00 - [22] Edited by: Kengutsi Akira on 17/08/2011 02:47:35 How to move.... etc remove all sec space and concord. Theres no longer anything BUT null sec Originally by: Cornullus Rage Are any of you really going to undock from Jita 4-4? lol I stay away from there that place is too dangerous ------------------------------------ "You know, my foot oughta vandilize your ass"
Blacksquirrel	Posted - 2011.08.17 03:58:00 - [23] Real answer is increase incentives, and make it less of a hassle to stay out there or get out there... Also ask why so many are so reluctant to move out there? I love pvp in most MMO's, but in eve it's a pita to find a fight or if you get exploded like; replace **** and get back out there. Fights also seem so lopsided now. Which is what caused blob warfare. So perhaps create invective's for gang warfare somehow? How do you achieve this, and keep eve core "values" the same? I have no idea. Granted some people just dont like pvp, and you'll never really change their minds rather you have to give them a positive experience. Even then some will never like it.
Judge Ment BOOM BOOM POW	Posted - 2011.08.17 04:27:00 - [24] Remove capital ships and jump bridges. add incentive and you might be able to awake some pirate corps in low sec! who want to camp the gates. that is the only way you can bring people there.. Incentive equals = Reward Reward = ISK ------------------------------------- We judge others by actions We judge ourselves by intentions.
Ryhss Caldari The Excecutorans	Posted - 2011.08.17 05:29:00 - [25] Originally by: Efraya Originally by: Kaethe Kollwitz heres where its at in order of fun: High sec Wormhole Low sec Null sec We live in a sandbox, fun is what you make it. People have fun trading. They have fun mining. "Fun" is relative. Right so let the null sec crowd play in null, lo sec fans in lo and leave us hi sec people alone! It's our sandbox too! There is no "wrong way" to play. Originally by: Kaethe Kollwitz null sec sucks dongs.
Aldarica Spinal Discipline	Posted - 2011.08.17 08:19:00 - [26] One simple reason why highsec is far more popular than 0.0 is fun factor (yep, 0.0 is no fun for most of the players)... only way to move people to 0.0 is by making it more attractive and casual friendly. Which is not going to happen, I'm afraid.
Chimera Ur Nibado Inc	Posted - 2011.08.17 08:23:00 - [27] Originally by: Johnny Dexter Originally by: Ryhss Originally by: Dub Step No one is forcing you to low sec. CCP is trying to...... Well yes, the entire design was to have high sec as a training ground before everyone move out to 0.0 for the "end game". Yet, 80% of the playerbase decide they'd rather do PvE - an absolute ****ing chore in EVE - for money they will realistically never put into good use because they don't lose any ships. I'm quite puzzled actually, if you're not interested in player conflict then why not play something like WoW that is a PvE game through and through, with great quest content all the way from level 1 to 85, raids etc. WoW doesn't have spaceships :) .
Kogh Ayon	Posted - 2011.08.17 08:27:00 - [28] Get more people in the low-sec first
Jack bubu GK inc. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2011.08.17 08:42:00 - [29] Where do get ppl the idea that ccp is forcing them to nullsec? decreasing highsec profitability surely isnt forcing anyone to move anywhere big boys get the cookies, deal with it
Shazi Mavox	Posted - 2011.08.17 08:55:00 - [30] By reading this thread, the answer to the OPs question is obvious. To move more players into nullsec you have to nerf alliances/corps and give solo players a shot at doing something worthwhile out there. One way to do this would be to create more versatile ships so that a solo player isn't forced to switch ships or bring an alt or friend to feel somewhat secure doing what he wants in nullsec. Alliances should be able to stop large-scaled operations in "their" space, but should have a lot more trouble stopping solo players and smaller gangs from running missions / mining / whatever
Shazi Mavox	Posted - 2011.08.17 08:58:00 - [31] Originally by: Jack bubu big boys get the cookies, deal with it No, big boys gets punched in the crotch by smaller boys who then steal the cookie and hide in a hole too small for the big boy to fit in...
Obax Bannon Caldari Fidelis Technologies	Posted - 2011.08.17 09:07:00 - [32] Originally by: Shazi Mavox Originally by: Jack bubu big boys get the cookies, deal with it No, big boys gets punched in the crotch by smaller boys who then steal the cookie and hide in a hole too small for the big boy to fit in... Until small boy eats too many cookies and can't fit in hole any more.....oh such a vicious circle lol
Shazi Mavox	Posted - 2011.08.17 09:10:00 - [33] Originally by: Obax Bannon Originally by: Shazi Mavox Originally by: Jack bubu big boys get the cookies, deal with it No, big boys gets punched in the crotch by smaller boys who then steal the cookie and hide in a hole too small for the big boy to fit in... Until small boy eats too many cookies and can't fit in hole any more.....oh such a vicious circle lol Indeed, but then they are counted as big boys, so the circle continues and the system works :D
Empy Ralt	Posted - 2011.08.17 12:31:00 - [34] It would be excellent if CCP made low-sec desirable places to visit. Fix the issues with a noobies first PvP experience being a low-sec gatecamp, fix faction war and make it relevant, provide small gang objectives in low-sec, make null-sec sov mechanics less terrible and try to breath life into the stagnant mono-polar political scene. ... but that would take work. So they'll probably just nerf the crap out of things and wonder why people are unsubscribing. Heck, they probably won't even do that till the "18 months" is over.
WisdomLikeSilence The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2011.08.17 12:32:00 - [35] I thought current CCp policy was to move players OUT of null-sec with various nerfs to income and sov.
Dub Step Minmatar Death To Everyone But Us	Posted - 2011.08.17 12:35:00 - [36] Originally by: WisdomLikeSilence I thought current CCp policy was to move players OUT of null-sec with various nerfs to income and sov. It depends what you are whining about.
Kendra Wilkinson	Posted - 2011.08.17 12:46:00 - [37] just an idea : you want move ppl in low or null >> make public bridge. - bridge bring you in low or NPC null sec, in the middle of nowhere but in a definied system. - you can only use this bridge if you are in NPC or small corporation (no alliance usage). - jump price based on ship size or you must got fuel in bay. - long delay between use (+1hour) - off course no public bridge to hi-sec - add may be npc standing and others feature... WHY ? - little bear can get in low/null and get fight without pass by some hot place always camped (EC- / Doril / ...) - because 'force' ppl wont work but 'help to' will certainly
Thornat	Posted - 2011.08.17 13:02:00 - [38] Edited by: Thornat on 17/08/2011 13:03:23 If there is one sure fire way to motivate people to go out into low sec and null sec, its to simply make it more profitable than high sec by a wide margin and eliminate access to certain critical components and resources needed for building stuff, researching stuff etc.. Personally however I doubt this would work, it would just **** people off and be followed up by another account exodous. The truth is that a carebear simply cannot be motivated to PvP and going into low sec and null sec means they have to so if given the option of do it or quit, the large majority will simply quit. Despite anything a PvPer has to say about that, its both a fact and bad for the game. Nothing good comes from people quitting the game, it just hurts it, shortens its lifespan and ultimatly leads to a lot of anxiety, protest and complaining. Carebears are here to stay, they will always live in high sec and their is no mechanical way to change that. Try to force them and they will simply quit. If there is a way to get carebears into low sec and null space its through long term gameplay. I have found that carebears eventually tire of high sec space and become rich enough to be able to afford the losses of low sec and null sec which ultimatly leads them to trying it out and possibly liking it. In either case however their is no such thing as forcing the issue.
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2011.08.17 13:04:00 - [39] Originally by: Rhedea Edited by: Rhedea on 16/08/2011 06:31:47 Shrink the size of low-sec by increasing the range of hi-sec 1.0 to 0.3 and have null-sec alliances sov control over 0.1 and 0.2 This would force more pvpers into playing in Null-sec. Well sort of, because this idea makes as much sense as forcing non-pvper from hi-sec into low-sec/null-sec. Wow what a dumb idea! Where is this proposal to FORCE players into 0.0? Are your characters going to be moved by the GMs? Will having more than 10M SP or 1 billion ISK NAV be a CONCORDable offence? Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Killer Gandry Caldari Shadow of the Pain	Posted - 2011.08.17 13:34:00 - [40] Edited by: Killer Gandry on 17/08/2011 13:35:59 I love how people still believe the crap that EVE let's you be whatever you want to be. Yes EVE is a sandbox. However a limited one. Limited to the idea's of 7-8 years ago. You will get punished in some way if your sandbox idea's aren't in line with the original plans of CCP of what they expected people to play along with. CCP wanted to create a society in EVE based on the concept of " You can keep what you can take and hold" The fact that there are people who thought outside of CCP's idea of liniar evolution was and still is earth shattering. But that CCP themselves messed up Nullsec isn't the problem. The problem is that there are people who don't feel like going to a place they loath because of the mess it is. Instead of fixing it finally CCP keeps using the nerfbat. Talking with null sec residents about how to fix null sec is like asking the Bernie Madoff how to fix the economy. If I want something fixed I look for people with a fresh vieuw on it all and not people who have resided in a certain stramien for a longer period of time and accordingly gotten a messed up carpal tunnel syndrome out of it when looking at their sandbox. Same with high sec players yapping about stuff they have absolutely no idea about because the one time they wandered into null sec by accident is hardly an experience which entitles them to say anything about it. The biggest issues I see is that there is way too much options to NAP with eachother in null sec. Yes there are a lot of alliances in null sec, but let's be fair, howmany camps are there in reality in null sec. The incentive of a corporation or even small alliance to go to null sec get's extra diminished by the fact that they can only get there if they become "pets" of the sluggish alliance blocks out there. Sov warfare is boring as hell. First we had the PoS warfare boredom. Now we have the sov claim units and blockers boredom. Once the boring part is done the other boring part starts. The lagfests. The vast amounts of time you have to invest in boring stuff like sitting at a claim unit or block unit and then the hours of being stuck in a laffest are hardly incentives for the more casual gamer and drives veterans out of those fights aswel over time. EVE used to be exciting, fastpaced but EVE grew old and now is slow and sluggish. The real fastpaced and exciting combat has been thouroughly killed by CCP, making solo or small gang PvP almost impossible to get. Mining has only had the change that you can mine more with less effort. Now that was a great concept. How to increase boredom with maximum efficiency. Missions are so predictable that after a while you can say exactly which NPC will be where and shoot howoften till you shot him. But the one thing which keeps popping up is the eternal battle of high sec versus null sec. Instead of realising everyone wants CCP to clean up their act and make EVE an exciting game again people just go at eachothers throat. Yes, nullsec should have it's rewards because it has it's risks. But does it hurt you that much if people in high sec make money too? If that affects your gaming experience isn't that an issue you should have to resolve with yourself? People in nullsec have build hard on their piece of space. They should reap benefits from it. Would it hurt high sec if null sec had certain extra benfits which high sec doesn't have? Do you really care or is it just envy? Null sec operates outside of empire law, so they can use experimental techniques and such which aren't allowed in high sec. Fair is fair. Should the struggle of getting new territory or defending already claimed territory be a boring experience? I say no it shouldn't. But CCP will have to start to realise the boundries of their sandbox are all wrong. New concepts and idea's need more room to be looked at. Some other measures have to be a lot more drastic. It will create an uproar but also will make the game more attractive for everyon Do not fear death so much but rather the inadequate life.
Haramir Haleths Caldari Nutella Bande	Posted - 2011.08.17 15:07:00 - [41] Reduce Supa Caps. Supa Caps are more common then e.g. Falcon
Akasha Dawn Worldbreaker	Posted - 2011.08.17 15:19:00 - [42] If they really wanted to get people to move to out Null Sec or go back to Null Sec. They would add more PVE content. If they added many more play style options to Null Sec it would get more use. PVE content for Carriers and Dreads yes. Add a solo PVE option for Null Sec yes. The thing is all the people that want PVP are already there. You want more people in a place you make it easier to go there and live not harder. Now the PVP players will say ôno Null if for PVP onlyö. That is a great attitude. See how well it has worked out so far. The trouble is most gamers donÆt want to pay money to have some jacka** tell them how to spend their game time. And the options for Null Sec so far are. Endless CTAÆs, lag fests & wasted game time. Renting space and paying billions for the privilege of living in Null. Or join a pet corporation and spend your time mining or ship building for a large alliance. You have to meet the monthly quotas. None of these options are very appealing to your average MMO player. Make a viable option for the solo guy to log in for a few hours and play EVE the way they want in Null Sec and it will fill up. No matter what else you do it will not work. This is how bad Null sec is now. I have a fully skilled Carrier pilot sitting collecting dust. I only play my exploration / cyno alt. And I play that less and less each week. I am coming close to just winning EVE. These are just my own personal views feel free to agree or disagree it really does not matter to me.
Kengutsi Akira	Posted - 2011.08.17 15:26:00 - [43] Edited by: Kengutsi Akira on 17/08/2011 15:28:37 Originally by: Blacksquirrel Real answer is increase incentives, and make it less of a hassle to stay out there or get out there... Also ask why so many are so reluctant to move out there? I love pvp in most MMO's, but in eve it's a pita to find a fight or if you get exploded like; replace ** and get back out there. Fights also seem so lopsided now. Which is what caused blob warfare. So perhaps create invective's for gang warfare somehow? How do you achieve this, and keep eve core "values" the same? I have no idea. Granted some people just dont like pvp, and you'll never really change their minds rather you have to give them a positive experience. Even then some will never like it. The real answer is simple, make it like STO where when you die you get a respawn button with a full health ship for free yeah I know fail troll, Im on vicodin I cant try harder right now Originally by:** Malcanis Where is this proposal to FORCE players into 0.0? Are your characters going to be moved by the GMs? Will having more than 10M SP or 1 billion ISK NAV be a CONCORDable offence? I dont understand this argument, making yourself look like an idiot who cant comprehend what they read doesnt make you with the argument, it makes you look stupid. ------------------------------------ "You know, my foot oughta vandilize your ass"
flakeys The Great cornholio's Paper Tiger Coalition	Posted - 2011.08.17 15:33:00 - [44] Originally by: Johnny Dexter Originally by: Ryhss Originally by: Dub Step No one is forcing you to low sec. CCP is trying to...... Well yes, the entire design was to have high sec as a training ground before everyone move out to 0.0 for the "end game". Yet, 80% of the playerbase decide they'd rather do PvE - an absolute **ing chore in EVE - for money they will realistically never put into good use because they don't lose any ships. I'm quite puzzled actually, if you're not interested in player conflict then why not play something like WoW that is a PvE game through and through, with great quest content all the way from level 1 to 85, raids etc. I don't mind looosing ships , hell i lost a load of isk on wayyy too expensive pvp ships.People assume that since one prefers high sec he MUST hate pvp and love pve.Fact is a LOT of people tried nullsec and came back from it to reside in high sec again.Not because of the losses involved or the pvp in general but the ing/*ing/political bull and whatnot that comes with nullsec. If i'd had to choose then i'd favour low-sec BIG time over nullsec.Lesss ***ing and more straight to the point pvp.
Very Strange Person Imperial Academy	Posted - 2011.08.17 15:42:00 - [45] Originally by: Dub Step No one is forcing you to low sec. Not strictly speaking, no. But CCP and players have been whining for years about it and trying to find ways to get more players into low/null sec space. Frankly, it's boring out there for many players. I've been to null sec space and lost a fortune due to stupid corp dramas alone. I also tried piracy in low sec and was bored to tears flying around looking for someone to shoot up and extort ISK from. I lost more money than I made trying piracy. Not only this, trying to make a profit in low sec is pointless if you're not in a large corp. Overall, I just wish I had a goat to punch once in a while. That would make things much easier for me and I think the devs will agree.
Dane El	Posted - 2011.08.17 16:16:00 - [46] I know why I have no interest in null sec. Alliance PVP is god awful boring. I tried it once. Joined a alliance training corp. The training fleets against war targets in high sec and roams in low sec were great fun. Then the alliance called up the training corp for a major campaign. I've never had less fun in Eve. It was all wait at the POS for the fleet, camp a station or a gate with a huge fleet and never fight anything but solos, or cower in the POS shields while the enemy fleet controls the system. It was almost a relief when I logged in one day and the POS was gone and I was trapped in a bubble surrounded by hundreds of enemy ships. (I know logging at a POS was dumb.) Null sec PVP is boring. Playing in an alliance takes Eve from being a game to serious business. I want to play a game not camp a POS because its the strategically sound action.
Vincent Athena	Posted - 2011.08.17 16:41:00 - [47] Reducing the profit to be made in high sec will move player out, and into a different game. Reducing the security of high sec will move plaers out, and into a different game. Making high sec less desirable will not move players into null, it will move them to a different game. If you want to get people out of high sec you need to know why they stay there. PvP causes stress in the player because they know its against another player. For some that stress feels good, they call it The Rush. It is something to be sought after. For others that stress feels bad, and is something to be avoided. According to Dr Drew Pinsky the difference between these two groups is genetic, you are born to get the rush, or you are not. So to entice these players into null, things have to be arranged so they can avoid PvP if they choose to do so. As secured alliance space is fairly safe, this is actually easy.. until there is a mandatory PvP op. What id alliances accepted that there are 2 groups of players, those that PvP and those that do not? Why would they ever want the pure industrialists? One reason would be because without them they could not survive in null. Right now industry is done by the PvPers in their off time, and made easier by shipping stuff in from high sec, like modules for reprocessing to get minerals. (2 jump freighters full of 1400mm guns makes a supercarrier, or 2000 hours of mining makes a supercarrier). If shipping stuff in became harder, then having industrialists in null would become desirable. So maybe we need to make 1400 mm guns bigger, or reduce reprocessing efficiency.
Ana Vyr Caldari	Posted - 2011.08.17 16:56:00 - [48] Originally by: Akasha Dawn Worldbreaker The reason i hate Null Sec. I log into EVE instantly someone is yelling at me in chat get in Vent/TS3/Mumble. I get in whatever. Someone i dont even really like is telling me get in X ship and go to X location and do X. I get to X and sit for 2-3 hours doing nothing but waiting. I did this for about a month then though to my self i am paying to do this? WTF. I am sure Null Sec is great but my time there sucked A**. This. Plus fellow alliance members stealing ships from POS hangers, insane lag in battles, FC's who believe they are better than everyone else, "mandatory" roams, and an utter disrespect for all the industry that must occur to keep the alliance afloat.
flakeys The Great cornholio's Paper Tiger Coalition	Posted - 2011.08.17 17:12:00 - [49] Originally by: Ana Vyr Originally by: Akasha Dawn Worldbreaker The reason i hate Null Sec. I log into EVE instantly someone is yelling at me in chat get in Vent/TS3/Mumble. I get in whatever. Someone i dont even really like is telling me get in X ship and go to X location and do X. I get to X and sit for 2-3 hours doing nothing but waiting. I did this for about a month then though to my self i am paying to do this? WTF. I am sure Null Sec is great but my time there sucked A**. This. Plus fellow alliance members stealing ships from POS hangers, insane lag in battles, FC's who believe they are better than everyone else, "mandatory" roams, and an utter disrespect for all the industry that must occur to keep the alliance afloat. Yup , as i stated above THIS is why a lot of high sec people avoid nullsec.It's not that we don't know what it is but we've been there and REALLY disliked the alliance life nullsec offers.i'm a 2004 player so yes i do remember how it was and it WAS fun , now i just can't be arsed to even try nullsec again as all my previous tries over the last years to like the current state of nullsec have failed horribly.If i want to i know enough people to get into any of the bigger nullsec alliances and carebear my ass off so it's not about lack of pve in null but pure lack of fun people. Nullsec guys claim that we empire dwellers are carebears and are afraid of losses.I've llost a crapload of expensive ships pirating in low-sec and will loose a crapload more instead of flying a blob of drakes and being scared of that OH SO PRECIOUS k/d ration all nullalliances so fear. Bottom line it is about freedom , nullsec does NOT offer you that especially if you are a casual player.
Ad'Hakim Tahous	Posted - 2011.08.17 19:08:00 - [50] Originally by: Thornat Edited by: Thornat on 17/08/2011 13:03:23 If there is one sure fire way to motivate people to go out into low sec and null sec, its to simply make it more profitable than high sec by a wide margin and eliminate access to certain critical components and resources needed for building stuff, researching stuff etc.. Personally however I doubt this would work, it would just **** people off and be followed up by another account exodous. The truth is that a carebear simply cannot be motivated to PvP and going into low sec and null sec means they have to so if given the option of do it or quit, the large majority will simply quit. Despite anything a PvPer has to say about that, its both a fact and bad for the game. Nothing good comes from people quitting the game, it just hurts it, shortens its lifespan and ultimatly leads to a lot of anxiety, protest and complaining. Carebears are here to stay, they will always live in high sec and their is no mechanical way to change that. Try to force them and they will simply quit. If there is a way to get carebears into low sec and null space its through long term gameplay. I have found that carebears eventually tire of high sec space and become rich enough to be able to afford the losses of low sec and null sec which ultimatly leads them to trying it out and possibly liking it. In either case however their is no such thing as forcing the issue. Profitability is a start, but only a start. Playability and enjoyment are even more important. That CCP, the CSM, and concerned 0.0 pilots are making some effort to find answers is good news. However, I'd suggest that there is another area to consider: The 0.0 Alliances and their leaders. When the mindset is such that vast fortunes are amassed by leaders who refer to newly joined corporations and their pilots as meat-shields, pardon me if I choose not to play their game. Had a toon that tried 0.0 and the interactions with the two groups I flew with was so unpleasant I've fired up this new toon that I use in high-sec only... and enjoy "building".... and I intend to stay here. Over time, perhaps I join a relaxed, friendly high-sec corp with whom I can have a bit of fun. IMHO playability trumps profitability.
Empy Ralt	Posted - 2011.08.18 00:03:00 - [51] They can't actually make null-sec much more profitable. That's sort of why they nerfed anomalies. Because large sections of null-sec are pretty safe from serious threat (for example the half of the map owned by DRF and friends) and full of bots and renters. The amount of Isk being funneled into a single coalition probably scares CCP and any improvement for the struggling solo or small alliance in null would be magnified thousands of times over for the big boys who own the vast mass of good null-sec space.
Kengutsi Akira	Posted - 2011.08.18 01:24:00 - [52] Originally by: Johnny Dexter Well yes, the entire design was to have high sec as a training ground before everyone move out to 0.0 for the "end game". Yet, 80% of the playerbase decide they'd rather do PvE - an absolute ****ing chore in EVE - for money they will realistically never put into good use because they don't lose any ships. So your argument is if you dont wanna play the game the way I want EIGHTY PERCENT (your numbers not mine) of the population should take thei SUB MONEY and go elsewhere? Yea... good plan ------------------------------------ "You know, my foot oughta vandilize your ass"
Russell Casey	Posted - 2011.08.18 01:39:00 - [53] Edited by: Russell Casey on 18/08/2011 01:42:57 Edited by: Russell Casey on 18/08/2011 01:42:02 Edited by: Russell Casey on 18/08/2011 01:41:29 About the only time I ever saw heavy traffic in null from high with a thriving market/industry aspect was the NRDS days of Providence. When I joined other null corps and left the so-called "Carebear Haven" I was rather shocked at how barren the other null was, there was literally nothing to do but rat, hide from blobs, and blob/camp yourself. Nearly everywhere is NBSI, and all people do for their isk is rat with industry only done when absolutely necessary, so I assume "getting more people to null" means, "bigger blobs/camps, more targets for said blobs/camps with an occassional lost indy ship we can laugh at and pop." CCP can't force people into null short of making the only worthwhile rewards there, in which case the people seeking to avoid the drama and utter contempt for non-VIPs/industry players/renters will quit. It's inevitably up to the community. Fortunately we have just such a caring, helpful playerbase.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Amarr Divine Power. Atlas.	Posted - 2011.08.18 14:02:00 - [54] Originally by: Russell Casey Nearly everywhere is NBSI, and all people do for their isk is rat with industry only done when absolutely necessary, so I assume "getting more people to null" means, "bigger blobs/camps, more targets for said blobs/camps with an occassional lost indy ship we can laugh at and pop."] As long as 0.0 alts can use NPC corps to move all the resources they want into jump freighter range while in highsec, there will never be a use for the working-class industrialist in nullsec. Help high-sec carebears, ban NPC corps.
Starn Holdren	Posted - 2011.08.18 16:25:00 - [55] I don't know where the 80% number came from. If that number is true then what would be the point in making changes that would alienate them for the 20% that seem to find people remaining in high-sec? I have no interest in PvP, alliances, fleet warfare, or any of the other stuff. I'm glad it is there for the people that enjoy that sort of thing but at the end of the day I don't care about any of it. I play games to relax and none of that is anything I find relaxing. There is no way to get the people that are in high sec into low or null in a way that the people currently in low or null would accept. It has nothing to do with fear or being a coward. (I've spent time in low, null, and WH space). It's a matter of not wanting to deal with crap I don't have to. The earlier poster that compared null/low to the frontier is spot on. But the mentality of those people that went out to the frontier isn't the same as the vast majority of people that remained in the 'civilized' portion of the country. It wasn't until law and order became more established that more people moved and then the frontier stopped being the frontier. In Eve there is no way to make the frontier not the frontier and make it tempting to the causal player. Sandbox game. As long as the MAJORITY of the player base is finding things they enjoy doing and continues to subscribe then there is no problem.
Zyress	Posted - 2011.08.23 21:20:00 - [56] Originally by: Blacksquirrel Quote: I WILL NOT PvP!! If I know that there is a human being on the other side of my BFG's, I will not fight! It is against my religion, yes, it seriously is against my religion, so don't try forcing change in game dymanics just because you are all bored of pew-pew'ing each other and need fresh "meat", which happens to be in HiSec. It's against your religion to have a computer calculate shots fired based upon slight randomness against another person in a fact fictitious space craft? You can call it violence, but it's really not as no one is getting hurt. By this rational you can't play chess either. What religion mentions no fake violence against virtual fake space ships? I dont mean to troll, but I really am curious. There's all kinds of hurt, it doesn't have to be physical, and religions don't have to be organized, if its against his moral and ethical code to cause anyone harm either real or virtual, then thats his religion, deal with it.
Ad'Hakim Tahous	Posted - 2011.08.23 21:29:00 - [57] How to move players into null-sec? You can't..... deal with it. No matter how much ISK 0.0 may generate, the supermajority of the ISK flows into the hands of a tiny number of alliance leaders. - Most pilots have no interest at all in becoming meat-shield wage *****s for alliances - Those with a high risk tolerance have already moved into the new End Game of EVE: Wormhole Space - Since w-space doesn't benefit the alliances, don't be surprised that CCP and CSM are reaching for the w-space nerf bat.
BearJews	Posted - 2011.08.23 21:51:00 - [58] I just recently moved my corp down to null with abuddy of mine and it has ****ing SUCKED so far. Not because of the iskies, not because of the pvp, but because of all the alliance crap with there super fleets. Because of that i have no way of doing anything beside throwing away my iskies to help the our father alliance which has done nother for us but sit by the side while our stations go down to reds. I don't mind the risk, but damn make it more fun for corps that want to explore and produce stuff without having to rely on a HUGE alliance to protect us, which they don't do anyway
Bane Necran Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.23 21:54:00 - [59] Originally by: Ana Vyr Originally by: Akasha Dawn Worldbreaker The reason i hate Null Sec. I log into EVE instantly someone is yelling at me in chat get in Vent/TS3/Mumble. I get in whatever. Someone i dont even really like is telling me get in X ship and go to X location and do X. I get to X and sit for 2-3 hours doing nothing but waiting. I did this for about a month then though to my self i am paying to do this? WTF. I am sure Null Sec is great but my time there sucked A**. This. Plus fellow alliance members stealing ships from POS hangers, insane lag in battles, FC's who believe they are better than everyone else, "mandatory" roams, and an utter disrespect for all the industry that must occur to keep the alliance afloat. I call mandatory roams and CTAs "forced marches". Also couldn't agree more on the vent/TS thing. Sure, for serious ops or whatnot it's useful, but in most cases they just want to chat like schoolgirls on the phone, or have a captive audience for their pointless rambling. I don't even chat with my real world friends for 5 hours a day. I don't know why they think i should for them.
Ad'Hakim Tahous	Posted - 2011.08.23 22:07:00 - [60] Originally by: BearJews I just recently moved my corp down to null with abuddy of mine and it has ****ing SUCKED so far. Not because of the iskies, not because of the pvp, but because of all the alliance crap with there super fleets. Because of that i have no way of doing anything beside throwing away my iskies to help the our father alliance which has done nother for us but sit by the side while our stations go down to reds. I don't mind the risk, but damn make it more fun for corps that want to explore and produce stuff without having to rely on a HUGE alliance to protect us, which they don't do anyway Hello Bear: Sorry to hear you've had such a bad time of it.... this is supposed to be fun! Suggest you consider w-space: more fun, good ISK, periodic pew-pew, no politics, and no CQ. Lovely place w-space....
BearJews	Posted - 2011.08.23 22:31:00 - [61] meh, it's no big deal. Hopefully this boils over and i can get back to working for iskies
Pteranodon Caldari Rekall Incorporated	Posted - 2011.08.26 08:41:00 - [62] Gates that lead from lowsec to null should be designated as pipes. These pipes should be equiped with a new type of gate gun that will obliterate gate camp agressors in one hit. If CCP want to get people into nullsec one reason for them not wanting to make the move is the players sitting in gate camps on the lowsec side of the pipe that make the transistion difficult. We can avoid gate camps by thinking & fitting smart but the newer player may not be aware of the tactics to do this. This would only be applicable on the lowsec side of the gate which leads into null, after all once your in nullsec its a free for all.
El'Niaga Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2011.08.26 10:26:00 - [63] There is not enough to do in 0.0 which is why more folks don't go to it. Even fully upgraded a system can only support about a dozen guys at a time, even if you did shifts say of 4 hours, that's 6 shifts a day and only accommodates 72 players. Sadly after Soundwaves winter changes they won't support even that. The anomaly change was one of the worst nerfs they could do if the goal was to get more people into 0.0. Reverse that and more will return to it. Or modify it so that what is now band 3 becomes band 1 and work up from there so there is a reason to build infrastructure. Also any system with less than 6 belts needs to be brought up to 6 belts which is what's needed to support the current upgrade system.
Aaron Aardvark Amarr	Posted - 2011.08.26 10:56:00 - [64] Originally by: Pteranodon Gates that lead from lowsec to null should be designated as pipes. These pipes should be equiped with a new type of gate gun that will obliterate gate camp agressors in one hit.
Thornat	Posted - 2011.08.26 12:00:00 - [65] When you really think about it though I mean this sort of push to get carebears into null sec is silly as the issue is not motivation, the issue is simply realistic acessibility. 0.0 alliances and players dedicate themselves to keeping people out of their space 24/7. Patrols, roaming bands, gate camps etc.. CCP at the same time is dedicated to creating mechanics that allow null sec people to keep other people out. Warp Bubbles, Intradictors, insta locking etc... The whole system is designed to keep people out, yet their is an outry to try to get people in. It almost sounds like a Jitta scam actually but propigated by 0.0 Alliances and CCP.
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.08.26 13:22:00 - [66] Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 26/08/2011 13:28:30 pushing carebears to 0.0 will just resdult in those carebears finding games that fit more to what they want other than EVE. Before you PVPers start clapping yourselves on the back, thats what 80% of the playerbase? You honestly think CCP is gonna take a 60% (yes I realize this number is lower, thats because I expect 20% to convert to 0.0 if they have no alternative) cut in player base and just suck it up without resorting to the gold ammo in Nex Store and selling everything thats not nailed down so to say in there? See sig CCP They knew better than all the players that left. You gonna let history repeat itself? Hell Ill even help: http://rubenfield.com/?p=86 -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too. This is your NGE/CU moment CCP.
Empy Ralt	Posted - 2011.08.26 14:54:00 - [67] It would probably be better to fix null-sec before having a discussion like this. At the moment null-sec is stagnating and the number of super-capitals required to hold Sov outside of renting grows ever more ridiculous.
Orionid	Posted - 2011.08.30 16:52:00 - [68] Edited by: Orionid on 30/08/2011 16:55:45 I am a newer player, I have been in for a year more or less, and took some time off. I think I represent the new and casual player pretty well. I do some low sec stuff, and have not been to null. As a newer player, I am often overmatched in fights by older players, and really have a hard time being competitive...at a year, I can match with some, but there is not much to do vs a BC with a frig or cruiser for the most part. Also - losses hurt the casual player pretty deeply, as we dont have the same time to pour into making isk. I want to pvp, but most of the time, I see gangs rolling around, and I have no way to fight them either. So most of the time, I run. The casual player will join in fleets, but cannot spend hours waiting for action. We have precious play time. As such, we tend to do a lot more solo activities. As mentioned above, solo is not always EVE friendly - so we tend to stick to high sec were we are afforded some degree of protection, and wont face bands of roaming pirates that we have no chance to fight off. I dont know the answer, but gangs in 0.0 sounds boring and intimidating. It does not sound like you can do much solo there, or anything on a compressed schedule. Dont get me wrong, I want to leave high sec and go the frontier...but it sounds like there is no frontier - it is all owned. Perhaps there is an answer there - dont let so much of it be conquerable? Mobs would still be able to control it, but they would have to be there, and not have such a permanent presence? As I said, I want to go, but dont want it to be suicide to go - to just get popped and podded as I come through the gate b/c I stepped into someones territory that I dont even know. As it is, the small casual mostly solo guy has no place out there, and until we do, we just wont go there very often.
MsValentineWiggin	Posted - 2011.08.30 17:29:00 - [69] Originally by: Sullen Skoung pushing carebears to 0.0 will just resdult in those carebears finding games that fit more to what they want other than EVE. Before you PVPers start clapping yourselves on the back, thats what 80% of the playerbase? You honestly think CCP is gonna take a 60% (yes I realize this number is lower, thats because I expect 20% to convert to 0.0 if they have no alternative) cut in player base and just suck it up without resorting to the gold ammo in Nex Store and selling everything thats not nailed down so to say in there? ôCan you change an MMO drastically after it launches?ö Categorically, NO. making high sec financially incapable of supporting people would be drastic to 80% of the players Current indications are that the winter changes are going to make a % of the majority of the customers leave the game, with serious negative consequences for people who want 0.0 development.
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.08.30 17:51:00 - [70] Originally by: MsValentineWiggin Originally by: Sullen Skoung pushing carebears to 0.0 will just resdult in those carebears finding games that fit more to what they want other than EVE. Before you PVPers start clapping yourselves on the back, thats what 80% of the playerbase? You honestly think CCP is gonna take a 60% (yes I realize this number is lower, thats because I expect 20% to convert to 0.0 if they have no alternative) cut in player base and just suck it up without resorting to the gold ammo in Nex Store and selling everything thats not nailed down so to say in there? ôCan you change an MMO drastically after it launches?ö Categorically, NO. making high sec financially incapable of supporting people would be drastic to 80% of the players Current indications are that the winter changes are going to make a % of the majority of the customers leave the game, with serious negative consequences for people who want 0.0 development. pretty much, for all you harde core 0.0 ppl are gonna have to realize that the 80% ppl pay for this game gasp MORE than the 30% ppl... I dont get how noone else sees that here -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too. This is your NGE/CU moment CCP.
Ishtara DuQuebec Caldari Exotic dancers School	Posted - 2011.08.31 07:32:00 - [71] make low sec make more money and 0.0 make somes pvp agent that send you kill another ship like in a cruiser only space or a frigate only space etc... and the 24 hour limit on the jump clone ... its to long ... when i want to go in 0.0 or low sec for a trip i dont want to wait 24 hour to return at normal ..... give us anonyme in low sec i want to hide my corp in low and 0.0 if i want to pvp only 1 time sometime ... maybe i can switch to my jump clone and go pvp a 4 hours in a brand new cruiser i just buy just for die with it in low or 0.0 now i dont want to stop for 24 hours and wait to return in my original pod and if i use my account i have money for buy pvp ship and loose it and the reward for people doing the missions in low sec or 0 its cheap and dont give enough to risk a good ship for doing it
Ishtara DuQuebec Caldari Exotic dancers School	Posted - 2011.08.31 07:36:00 - [72] we need the money , the fun !!! and we need something very good to have to risk my pvp ship to it and i talk to risk like a t3 ship or something expensive ... but if the candy its big maybe i take a chance to put the money for have it ( like a investement)
Ishtara DuQuebec Caldari Exotic dancers School	Posted - 2011.08.31 07:39:00 - [73] that a good comment .... that true, all is created about to keep people out of this lol Originally by: Thornat When you really think about it though I mean this sort of push to get carebears into null sec is silly as the issue is not motivation, the issue is simply realistic acessibility. 0.0 alliances and players dedicate themselves to keeping people out of their space 24/7. Patrols, roaming bands, gate camps etc.. CCP at the same time is dedicated to creating mechanics that allow null sec people to keep other people out. Warp Bubbles, Intradictors, insta locking etc... The whole system is designed to keep people out, yet their is an outry to try to get people in. It almost sounds like a Jitta scam actually but propigated by 0.0 Alliances and CCP.
Suiken-user	Posted - 2011.08.31 07:57:00 - [74] delete bubbles. why low sec is full of action? because it does not have damn insta warp disable. they are pure fun killers as blobs are everywhere and that **** makes their life so much easier. shouldn't
Space Hoover	Posted - 2011.08.31 08:01:00 - [75] I'd be in favour of some positive tweaking to low-sec exploration, one that perhaps favours small groups more - combined with a negative tweak to, say, L4 high-sec mission running if that appeasement is needed. You don't force people into PVP, you entice them into the arena and make them want to get involved in dynamic content full stop. If that starts with PVE and lures them into a taste for PVP then all the better. In my experience of null, there is absolutely nothing to entice the kind of person who favours high-sec currently. Your odds of getting into a null-sec arrangement that works for you aren't anything like winning the lottery, but are far from favourable.
Ladie Scarlet GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.08.31 08:02:00 - [76] Originally by: MsValentineWiggin Current indications are that the winter changes are going to make a % of the majority of the customers leave the game, with serious negative consequences for people who want 0.0 development. Would those be the "current indications" that you are pulling from your ass?
Nomad Vherokic Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.31 10:46:00 - [77] Originally by: Shazi Mavox Originally by: Obax Bannon Originally by: Shazi Mavox Originally by: Jack bubu big boys get the cookies, deal with it No, big boys gets punched in the crotch by smaller boys who then steal the cookie and hide in a hole too small for the big boy to fit in... Until small boy eats too many cookies and can't fit in hole any more.....oh such a vicious circle lol Indeed, but then they are counted as big boys, so the circle continues and the system works :D All I'm seeing here is a prison shower analogy... complete with broom, vaseline, and Mr Big Boy. -- Why do people sign their name at the bottom of a post? We know who you are already...
The Old Chap	Posted - 2011.08.31 11:26:00 - [78] If you really want to increase the capsuleer presence in nullsec, and the traffic to and from there, I suggest the following three changes to the game: 1) Open up the pipes. This could be done by increasing their number dramatically, or having Concord extend their presence to the GATES ONLY for all nullsec systems within three jumps of a pipe: either option would open up the routes into null more effectively. 2) BAN BUBBLES within the same three jumps of a 'pipe'. Make it possible for ships to physically get in and out! 3) Seed a few more npc stations in nullsec close to empire, with good agents and facilities to entice solo and small-corp capsuleers there without having to prostrate themselves before alliance overlords. Why wouldn't empire based npc organisations want to extend their business interests to null? There could be a modest tax levied on in-station transactions paid to the incumbent alliance too, by way of a reward to them for allowing others to trade. Seroiusly, opening up null to the players who freelance in the game is the true way to engender prosperity in the nether regions, so to speak. Yes, this makes concessions to carebears, but critically it entices people closer to 'true null' and would dramatically increase traffic flow through lowsec, enticing more pirating and general dastardliness.
Aaron Aardvark Amarr	Posted - 2011.08.31 11:32:00 - [79] CCP need to allow the players to make Hisec as hostile as possible. Cheaper War Decs, slower Concord response time, etc.
Cyniac Gallente Twilight Star Rangers	Posted - 2011.08.31 12:11:00 - [80] Originally by: Thornat When you really think about it though I mean this sort of push to get carebears into null sec is silly as the issue is not motivation, the issue is simply realistic acessibility. 0.0 alliances and players dedicate themselves to keeping people out of their space 24/7. Patrols, roaming bands, gate camps etc.. CCP at the same time is dedicated to creating mechanics that allow null sec people to keep other people out. Warp Bubbles, Intradictors, insta locking etc... The whole system is designed to keep people out, yet their is an outry to try to get people in. It almost sounds like a Jitta scam actually but propigated by 0.0 Alliances and CCP. You are very close to getting my vote for CSM Mind you - as far as moving people into null? Make more null but make sure it's NPC sov. Prancing around Syndicate is fun, at least for now.
Ava Starfire Minmatar Teraa Matar	Posted - 2011.08.31 12:18:00 - [81] Lemme tell ya, my last trip to null, when my HAC gang of SEVEN got hotdropped by the same Nyx, twice, that really just makes me wanna pack up and move on out there. Yep. Move to Nullsec! You, too, can train for mandatory alliance fits! You, too, can spend hours being irrelevant on killmails with 300 people on them! You, yes YOU, can fight with 174167 other players for the only easy isk sources... sure there are others, but with the time you spend... ...wasting hours waiting for a battle that never comes, listening to some mouthbreather rubbing one out while watching furry **** on vent/TS. YOU CAN DO THIS! And you can experience the endgame of eve, soulcrushing lag! I miss anything?
White Tree	Posted - 2011.08.31 12:41:00 - [82] Both GSF and TEST have newbie programs where they teach new players on day 1 how to live and work in Nullsec. They raise them in Nullsec and teach them all the skills they need to survive. But both communities recruit exclusively from communities outside of EVE so vOv _______________________________________ Follow me on Twitter!
Trixie Stardust	Posted - 2011.08.31 13:00:00 - [83] Originally by: Akasha Dawn Worldbreaker The reason i hate Null Sec. I log into EVE instantly someone is yelling at me in chat get in Vent/TS3/Mumble. I get in whatever. Someone i dont even really like is telling me get in X ship and go to X location and do X. I get to X and sit for 2-3 hours doing nothing but waiting. I did this for about a month then though to my self i am paying to do this? WTF. I am sure Null Sec is great but my time there sucked A**. If that's your only memory of nullsec then you don't have much experience there. Sounds like you're exaggerating.. I've been in this game way too long, I've never been in a corp where anyone made me do anything. Personally my only problem with nullsec is.. 1) it's actually rather empty.. I miss the traffic in empire 2) nullsec is fun but it's a huge isk sponge; every time I join a corp out there, I head out with a billion isk and wind up losing it all.. take a game break and three times now this has happened, I come back and Russians own everything. Best thing to do is just have a setup in empire, missions or mining or whatever you do and keep all that separate from your nullsec stuff. So if you bust out in nullsec go play in empire, pop back and forth.
Narisa Bithon Caldari The Motley Crew Reborn	Posted - 2011.08.31 13:02:00 - [84] Originally by: Rhedea Edited by: Rhedea on 16/08/2011 06:31:47 Shrink the size of low-sec by increasing the range of hi-sec 1.0 to 0.3 and have null-sec alliances sov control over 0.1 and 0.2 This would force more pvpers into playing in Null-sec. Well sort of, because this idea makes as much sense as forcing non-pvper from hi-sec into low-sec/null-sec. Wow what a dumb idea! just remove high sec and low sec leaving only null sec and wormspace.... problem solved
Narisa Bithon Caldari The Motley Crew Reborn	Posted - 2011.08.31 13:04:00 - [85] Originally by: White Tree Both GSF and TEST have newbie programs where they teach new players on day 1 how to live and work in Nullsec. They raise them in Nullsec and teach them all the skills they need to survive. But both communities recruit exclusively from communities outside of EVE so vOv do they teach them to smack talk in local or is that a prerequisite skill before becoming a goon/testicle?
Simetraz	Posted - 2011.08.31 13:28:00 - [86] During server downtime. Take everyone who is in high sec and stick them in random 0.0 stations. Take everyone in 0.0 and move them to random high-sec and remove all the towers and SOV structures. Move all Super Capitals to random locations in WH Space. Now you have more people in 0.0 then high-sec. Problem Solved, Next
TharOkha	Posted - 2011.08.31 13:55:00 - [87] Originally by: Akasha Dawn Worldbreaker The reason i hate Null Sec. I log into EVE instantly someone is yelling at me in chat get in Vent/TS3/Mumble. I get in whatever. Someone i dont even really like is telling me get in X ship and go to X location and do X. I get to X and sit for 2-3 hours doing nothing but waiting. I did this for about a month then though to my self i am paying to do this? WTF. I am sure Null Sec is great but my time there sucked A**.
Borun Tal Minmatar Space Pods Inc	Posted - 2011.08.31 15:58:00 - [88] Originally by: Jiska Ensa Edited by: Jiska Ensa on 16/08/2011 22:05:03 Originally by: Akasha Dawn Worldbreaker The reason i hate Null Sec. I log into EVE instantly someone is yelling at me in chat get in Vent/TS3/Mumble. I get in whatever. Someone i dont even really like is telling me get in X ship and go to X location and do X. I get to X and sit for 2-3 hours doing nothing but waiting. I did this for about a month then though to my self i am paying to do this? WTF. I am sure Null Sec is great but my time there sucked A**. This. It may be a sandbox, but the sandbox is full of idiots peeing in it, then ordering you to clean it up for them. When alliances stop sucking, null-sec will stop sucking. QFT. A big part of null is paying to play a game to fulfill someone else's objectives/agenda in-game.
Leeroy McJenkins GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.08.31 17:52:00 - [89] Originally by: Sullen Skoung Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 30/08/2011 18:04:35 Originally by: MsValentineWiggin Originally by: Sullen Skoung pushing carebears to 0.0 will just resdult in those carebears finding games that fit more to what they want other than EVE. Before you PVPers start clapping yourselves on the back, thats what 80% of the playerbase? You honestly think CCP is gonna take a 60% (yes I realize this number is lower, thats because I expect 20% to convert to 0.0 if they have no alternative) cut in player base and just suck it up without resorting to the gold ammo in Nex Store and selling everything thats not nailed down so to say in there? ôCan you change an MMO drastically after it launches?ö Categorically, NO. making high sec financially incapable of supporting people would be drastic to 80% of the players Current indications are that the winter changes are going to make a % of the majority of the customers leave the game, with serious negative consequences for people who want 0.0 development. pretty much, for all you harde core 0.0 ppl are gonna have to realize that the 80% ppl pay for this game gasp MORE than the 20% ppl... I dont get how noone else sees that here So what you are really saying is that group effort or effort in general should not come with more benefits and the game should be changed to EVE: Single Player Online to accommodate all the people who for whatever reason need to put less effort in the game but are entitled to the same rewards as group/more effort people by virtue of paying $15 a month while the smaller amount of people also playing $15 a month should somehow count less because they need to play more casual so others can compete? Makes absolute sense eh? Originally by: Leeroy McJenkins There is no real pvp in EVE, there is only winning or losing and then feeling :smug: about winning or sore about losing. There is nothing wrong with this arrangement.
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.08.31 17:57:00 - [90] Originally by: Leeroy McJenkins So what you are really saying is that group effort or effort in general should not come with more benefits and the game should be changed to EVE: Single Player Online to accommodate all the people who for whatever reason need to put less effort in the game but are entitled to the same rewards as group/more effort people by virtue of paying $15 a month while the smaller amount of people also playing $15 a month should somehow count less because they need to play more casual so others can compete? Makes absolute sense eh? There should be balance. You don't want to gut the gaming experience of those that choose a more casual play style compared to those that prefer greater risk/reward. But then again, the risk/reward thing really should be taken into consideration. Look at null for example. Some of the greatest rewards with minimal risk on sov space. That needs to be fixed. Monocles are so two weeks ago. Sparkle ships are the future!
Leeroy McJenkins GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.08.31 18:09:00 - [91] Originally by: Ingvar Angst Look at null for example. Some of the greatest rewards with minimal risk on sov space. That needs to be fixed. Minimal risk because of group effort. It's a sandbox its up to other players to provide the risk, if they don't want to go make a particular part of null more dangerous for the people living there because they are afraid the people living there might jump them with 50 canes then that's on them. Originally by: Leeroy McJenkins There is no real pvp in EVE, there is only winning or losing and then feeling :smug: about winning or sore about losing. There is nothing wrong with this arrangement.
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.08.31 18:25:00 - [92] Originally by: Leeroy McJenkins Originally by: Ingvar Angst Look at null for example. Some of the greatest rewards with minimal risk on sov space. That needs to be fixed. Minimal risk because of group effort. It's a sandbox its up to other players to provide the risk, if they don't want to go make a particular part of null more dangerous for the people living there because they are afraid the people living there might jump them with 50 canes then that's on them. You know... that's a helluva good point. It's also something that moving ice or ABC solely to null isn't going to change either. Monocles are so two weeks ago. Sparkle ships are the future!
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.08.31 18:59:00 - [93] Originally by: Leeroy McJenkins Makes absolute sense eh? riiiight 20% should rule the 80% eh? Good logic cause all those 80% dont pay $15 too... hey I got a great idea, make it so only the ppl in 0.0 have to pay a monthly fee and let the high sec ppl play F2P. -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too.
raker	Posted - 2011.08.31 19:24:00 - [94] I am a 2003 char Ive done most things in Eve, Ive founded three corps Ive mined my way to get my ships and done countless misisons Ive been part of a big alliance in Querious (Fix) and played a part as one of the Ceo's in that big allaince I took a many breaks from the game as I have felt I had done it all and got bored of it I returned after a real life friend had joined a WH corp and was having Fun For me, WH's are where the fun is at, it has small fleet battles and no local and you have to rely on your corp mates to be able to survive The borders change daily and you don't know what the next WH will bring For me, not being in safe space and being in true hostile space has made the game fun to play again I would recommend any char that feels that the spark has gone from the game to get into a WH
Akasha Dawn Worldbreaker	Posted - 2011.08.31 19:26:00 - [95] Originally by: Trixie Stardust Originally by: Akasha Dawn Worldbreaker The reason i hate Null Sec. I log into EVE instantly someone is yelling at me in chat get in Vent/TS3/Mumble. I get in whatever. Someone i dont even really like is telling me get in X ship and go to X location and do X. I get to X and sit for 2-3 hours doing nothing but waiting. I did this for about a month then though to my self i am paying to do this? WTF. I am sure Null Sec is great but my time there sucked A. If that's your only memory of nullsec then you don't have much experience there. Sounds like you're exaggerating.. I've been in this game way too long, I've never been in a corp where anyone made me do anything. Personally my only problem with nullsec is.. 1) it's actually rather empty.. I miss the traffic in empire 2) nullsec is fun but it's a huge isk sponge; every time I join a corp out there, I head out with a billion isk and wind up losing it all.. take a game break and three times now this has happened, I come back and Russians own everything. Best thing to do is just have a setup in empire, missions or mining or whatever you do and keep all that separate from your nullsec stuff. So if you bust out in nullsec go play in empire, pop back and forth. This is what happened to me when i was in Null Sec. I am real glad that your experiance there was different. I personaly will never pay $15.00 dollars a month again to have some jacka telling me how to play. You say no one ever makes you do anything. All i can say is good for you.
BrundleMeth Caldari Temporal Mechanics	Posted - 2011.08.31 19:37:00 - [96] Edited by: BrundleMeth on 31/08/2011 19:39:05 I've been playing 3 years got a few accounts. The most fun I had was 3 years ago when I joined a 0.0 corp with only a few million SP and moved out to Wicked Creek. Was way fun. But that was before the stupid blob crap that I despise so much. Back then an 800 person battle was a blast... Now, I simply enjoy sitting in hi-sec, ratting, doing some missions and mostly chatting in the NPC chat channels. I like watching my characters skills go up and I buy a GTC now and then so I can buy a nice Navy Ship or Tengu. I'll spend hours fitting and refitting it for laughs, my own personal EFT. Then I'll fit a Raven with lazers and 3 Cap Boosters and post my fit and listen to all the big mouth jerks yell "Fail", "Noob" or "Go back to Wow" without realizing I did that just to push their buttons... Idiots...
Eyup Mi'duck	Posted - 2011.08.31 19:37:00 - [97] Originally by: Akasha Dawn Worldbreaker I personally will never pay $15.00 dollars a month again to have some jacka telling me how to play. ^ THIS just about says it all.  Get over it!  Learn from your mistake and move on.** 
Elyssa MacLeod	Posted - 2011.08.31 19:39:00 - [98] Edited by: Elyssa MacLeod on 31/08/2011 19:39:37 Originally by: Akasha Dawn Worldbreaker Originally by: Trixie Stardust Originally by: Akasha Dawn Worldbreaker The reason i hate Null Sec. I log into EVE instantly someone is yelling at me in chat get in Vent/TS3/Mumble. I get in whatever. Someone i dont even really like is telling me get in X ship and go to X location and do X. I get to X and sit for 2-3 hours doing nothing but waiting. I did this for about a month then though to my self i am paying to do this? WTF. I am sure Null Sec is great but my time there sucked A. If that's your only memory of nullsec then you don't have much experience there. Sounds like you're exaggerating.. I've been in this game way too long, I've never been in a corp where anyone made me do anything. Personally my only problem with nullsec is.. 1) it's actually rather empty.. I miss the traffic in empire 2) nullsec is fun but it's a huge isk sponge; every time I join a corp out there, I head out with a billion isk and wind up losing it all.. take a game break and three times now this has happened, I come back and Russians own everything. Best thing to do is just have a setup in empire, missions or mining or whatever you do and keep all that separate from your nullsec stuff. So if you bust out in nullsec go play in empire, pop back and forth. This is what happened to me when i was in Null Sec. I am real glad that your experiance there was different. I personaly will never pay $15.00 dollars a month again to have some jacka telling me how to play. You say no one ever makes you do anything. All i can say is good for you. Yup me too... reason my main is never in 0.0 is pretty much that. Do this Do that. every minute I was in 0.0 was a minute I didnt have free will to do what I want. I dont pay $30 a month for a second job, I pay it to have fun. No, I wont post on my main, not cause Im scared or some BS, but because thats one of the smarter corp's rules lol
TharOkha	Posted - 2011.08.31 21:05:00 - [99] Originally by: Thornat When you really think about it though I mean this sort of push to get carebears into null sec is silly as the issue is not motivation, the issue is simply realistic acessibility. 0.0 alliances and players dedicate themselves to keeping people out of their space 24/7. Patrols, roaming bands, gate camps etc.. CCP at the same time is dedicated to creating mechanics that allow null sec people to keep other people out. Warp Bubbles, Intradictors, insta locking etc... The whole system is designed to keep people out, yet their is an outry to try to get people in. It almost sounds like a Jitta scam actually but propigated by 0.0 Alliances and CCP. Exactly !!!! This whole "null-hisec ballance" is like, "move all pilots to null, but we will not allow them to do so".
Leeroy McJenkins GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.09.01 17:52:00 - [100] Originally by: Ingvar Angst Originally by: Leeroy McJenkins Originally by: Ingvar Angst Look at null for example. Some of the greatest rewards with minimal risk on sov space. That needs to be fixed. Minimal risk because of group effort. It's a sandbox its up to other players to provide the risk, if they don't want to go make a particular part of null more dangerous for the people living there because they are afraid the people living there might jump them with 50 canes then that's on them. You know... that's a helluva good point. It's also something that moving ice or ABC solely to null isn't going to change either. But imagine all those brave bears that will try and lemming themselves into the path of those fast moving hurricanes. Originally by: Leeroy McJenkins There is no real pvp in EVE, there is only winning or losing and then feeling :smug: about winning or sore about losing. There is nothing wrong with this arrangement.
Leeroy McJenkins GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.09.01 18:00:00 - [101] Originally by: Sullen Skoung Originally by: Leeroy McJenkins Makes absolute sense eh? riiiight 20% should rule the 80% eh? Good logic cause all those 80% dont pay $15 too... hey I got a great idea, make it so only the ppl in 0.0 have to pay a monthly fee and let the high sec ppl play F2P. Or maybe that 80% should start banding together and you know, try to win at EVE instead of expecting CCP to hand them things like they are welfare mamas waiting for a check from the government because they are entitled. Everyone paid $15 to sit in the sandbox, what you do with the sand is on you bro. Originally by: Leeroy McJenkins There is no real pvp in EVE, there is only winning or losing and then feeling :smug: about winning or sore about losing. There is nothing wrong with this arrangement.
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.09.01 18:04:00 - [102] Edited by: Ingvar Angst on 01/09/2011 18:06:40 Originally by: Leeroy McJenkins But imagine all those brave bears that will try and lemming themselves into the path of those fast moving hurricanes. There's certainly a romance in that, but to be honest... they won't. High sec dwellers will simply mine something else. Many POS's, with their fuel supply cut off, will die and the people will simply either do something else or, more likely, leave. Reality has a way of reminding us that our dreams are only our dreams. Originally by: Leeroy McJenkins Or maybe that 80% should start banding together and you know, try to win at EVE instead of expecting CCP to hand them things like they are welfare mamas waiting for a check from the government because they are entitled. Everyone paid $15 to sit in the sandbox, what you do with the sand is on you bro. Take away all the sand and you'll find no one wants to play in your empty box. Monocles are so two weeks ago. Sparkle ships are the future!
Information Agent	Posted - 2011.09.01 18:14:00 - [103] Originally by: Leeroy McJenkins Or maybe that 80% should start banding together and you know, try to win at EVE instead of expecting CCP to hand them things like they are welfare mamas waiting for a check from the government because they are entitled. Everyone paid $15 to sit in the sandbox, what you do with the sand is on you bro. You definition of 'winning EVE' is probably not the same as everyone elses, and not everyone wants to be herded around in fleets by internet warriors. Nullsec is boring, I spend more time on my highsec alt than my nullsec main. Null comes with politics, drama and blobs and feels like a second job somtimes, some people just want to to their own thing with their gametime.
Spurty Caldari V0LTA VOLTA Corp	Posted - 2011.09.01 18:16:00 - [104] This theory lacks catapults! For me, the best part of Incarna is the fact we all contracted 'Space Nits'. "I docked up and all I got was 'head lice'." ;-p
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.09.01 18:18:00 - [105] Originally by: Ingvar Angst Take away all the sand and you'll find no one wants to play in your empty box. yup, **** off all the 80%, theyll find a new game an youll be left with noone paying ccp bro. Guess what happens then? -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too.
Zyress	Posted - 2011.09.08 20:33:00 - [106] Originally by: Ingvar Angst Originally by: Leeroy McJenkins So what you are really saying is that group effort or effort in general should not come with more benefits and the game should be changed to EVE: Single Player Online to accommodate all the people who for whatever reason need to put less effort in the game but are entitled to the same rewards as group/more effort people by virtue of paying $15 a month while the smaller amount of people also playing $15 a month should somehow count less because they need to play more casual so others can compete? Makes absolute sense eh? There should be balance. You don't want to gut the gaming experience of those that choose a more casual play style compared to those that prefer greater risk/reward. But then again, the risk/reward thing really should be taken into consideration. Look at null for example. Some of the greatest rewards with minimal risk on sov space. That needs to be fixed. Do you play the higher risk game style because you like it or is it really about the isk? If you choose to play in NUll I have to assume you are doing it because you like it, if it was about the isk, you would be doing missions in hisec. Being as you are playing in NUllsec for the fun of it, I don't see where the isk even enters into the equation, there is no imbalance you play the game the way that is fun to you and the carebears play the game the way that is fun to them. Most carebears actually do enjoy Pvp, they are just responsible enough to know that they need to have a regular hisec job to pay for it, and thats all they typically have time for on most nights. You just want to move regular hisec jobs out there so you have more targets. Because of the sov holding mechanics that won't happen. The mining and missions may go out there but noone but botters will be doing it out there. Making isk isn't what most nullsec people are there for and they aren't interested in it.

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