I never disagreed with this, but if we're talking viability vs current alternatives, which the argument seemed to be in response to a series of comments about cost of ganking post buff, the noobship one loosely fit the term (or at least came a lot closer to it). Miners with noobships under the same mechanics did not. That was the extent of my prior post.

What came after was a series of arguments I didn't think related but I responded anyways. I'll accept some fault for potentially misscommunicating my responses, but I'm not sure how Baitec and his involvement with tech moons became got into the discussion about or how you interpreted my posts.

your high sec pve got nerfed. get over it. i'm pretty sure that's what goons tell the rest of us.

What? As soon as prices rise, more people will do it (regardless of how) and eventually you'll need to make this same claim again.

Buff mining to the max, let the market prices plummet, less will do it. Prices go up etc. etc.

See where this is going?

Prices did rise. A handful more people got into mining, but not enough to bring prices down. The number of people mining was balanced by the perceived risk.



Wrong. Market prices plummet, the miners that are doing it will keep doing it because it's an easy activity that they can now safely AFK. Prices will not go up: that is a fiction brought on by a misunderstanding of basic economic theory of supply and demand.

Assuming a strong demand: As supply rises, prices will settle to a new lower level. As supply diminishes, prices will settle to a new higher level. As prices drop, producers will simply make less profit. Producers will drop out of the market when their profit reaches zero. Now tell me what are the costs for a miner? It doesn't cost anything to mine ore with T1 mining lasers or strip miners. It doesn't cost anything to refine that ore into minerals. There are costs associated with selling, but they are proportional to the sale price, so irrelevant to the issue.



Yes, prices will continue to fall until mining becomes unprofitable for the time invested. At that point, prices will stabilise at the level which there are still miners mining.

On one hand, I can see the miners leaving the game due to their income dropping in comparison to the prices of PLEX rising. But something tells me it's not miners that are the major purchasers of PLEX.

Wrong. Market prices plummet, the miners that are doing it will keep doing it because it's an easy activity that they can now safely AFK. Prices will not go up: that is a fiction brought on by a misunderstanding of basic economic theory of supply and demand.

Increased efficiences - to gather/produce - increases margin.

Please don't apply the "basic economic theory" as an argument. Please.

In RL, the benchmark everyone tries to use, we have an ever-increasing population and no-one goes about blowing up oil-tankers to keep the prices high.

The world economy and population - despite that it should mean serious supply/demand issues - has actually seen prices drop for most of our stuff because of effiencies.

That is just some of the most obvious differences when people try to equate RL economic theory into a VR environment.

But if we must equate.

Increased demand - for your product - increases revenue.
Increased efficiences - to gather/produce - increases margin.

The margin is the bit miners chase and is distinctly seperate from supply/demand (albeit Eve "supply/demand" is essentially very static).

..stuff..

Mate. For all the faffing about on this. In RL we do not go around blowing up oil-tankers or oil-rigs to increase prices. Period.

This isn't RL.

Its no coincidence that ice mining sucked for years untill the two ice interdictions hit. We effectivly wiped out the vast bulk of miners who were either bots or very bad at it. Coupled with market panic we brought about a three fold increase in profits for miners. Then the barge buff happened and the ganking stopped. The result?

A collapse of the ice prices and the spawning of large bot fleets and porly tanked scrubs flooding the market again. Turns out, ganking is a good thing for miners.

Funny how it's "not RL" when you justify the ganks but you use RL economic theory to do so.

And my point is made exaclty. The change in prices was temporary. Period.

BUT, and this is my point, the anger/anghst/whine whatever you want to call it over the interdiction bought about an EXTERNAL force to circumvent it.

Why? Because the impact to the game and the players (in this, a VR world) was seriously causing a problem. CCP saw it for what it was and "fixed it".

We cannot call "God" in RL when things go bad and to be perfectly honest CCP played "God" to fix the problem. Whether I or you or anyone else agrees is irrelevant.

>> CCP's RL economic reality required a fix. And so it came to be.

Bring back manic ganking again and it'll simply happen again.

I stand by all this talk about gank, not gank to manipulate prices is purely faffing.

You have to come up with another way.

Not blind hatred, sure ganking a freighter full of doodoo is one thing but to blanket target miners because as we all know every single mining barge is a bot is stupidity, there's this obsession with hating miners its the reason CCP had to intervene and buff the ships why is it we should all fly around a$$ grabbing each other all the time around every corner is beyond me, i mean if blowing up everything in sight is all that you want there's 0.0 and dull sec, low sec, WH, FW, all the a$$ grabbing you want empire is only a small part of eve...WTF more do you want.

You do realise that if you fit a tank you are more or less safe right?

You do realise that if you fit a tank you are more or less safe right?

Not this old argument again. sigh...

I don't recall CCP sending out an email to remind the miners of this point.

I don't recall the email where CCP told all the miners to HTFU.

I do recall it causing a LOT of anger and it DID cause unsubs (that's why CCP reacted - it's the ONLY reason they would.

I do recall your whingy/whiney/moan that you're doing the miners a favour.

Oh wait. You're STILL doing it.....

And you reckon the MINERS haven't learned anything. Sheesh Baltec. Just sheesh!

-snip-
BUT, and this is my point, the anger/anghst/whine whatever you want to call it over the interdiction bought about an EXTERNAL force to circumvent it.

Why? Because the impact to the game and the players (in this, a VR world) was seriously causing a problem. CCP saw it for what it was and "fixed it".

We cannot call "God" in RL when things go bad and to be perfectly honest CCP played "God" to fix the problem. Whether I or you or anyone else agrees is irrelevant.
-snip-

the usual fluff about how good he is....

Just like CCP 'fixed' mission drops because miners ( who obviously sucked at mining ) QQ'd that mission runners were getting too many minerals from mission drops. One person boo-hoo'd about how unfair it was after they had trained up all those skills for mining ( as opposed to the racial BS, weapon and defense systems a mission runner trains. I have both - mining was 'easy'... ).

Just how many times does CCP have to come riding in to play White Knight for the mining 'community' who refuses to play smart and adapt?

Just like CCP 'fixed' mission drops because miners ( who obviously sucked at mining ) QQ'd that mission runners were getting too many minerals from mission drops. One person boo-hoo'd about how unfair it was after they had trained up all those skills for mining ( as opposed to the racial BS, weapon and defense systems a mission runner trains. I have both - mining was 'easy'... ).

Just how many times does CCP have to come riding in to play White Knight for the mining 'community' who refuses to play smart and adapt?

How does a miner "adapt" to drone alloys and reprocessed loot from another profession?

How does a miner "adapt" to drone alloys and reprocessed loot from another profession?

But I thought the resources were infinite. What difference does where they come from make?

You don't think an increase in the mining population will look an awful lot like the drone regions' contribution did?

I guess time will tell. But I think initial indications are "It probably will."

Deal with it.

I'm completely confused why non-miners and presumably non-industrialists are bothered about ore prices being too low.

Doesn't that actually make their gameplay easier?

Why would anyone ASK for ways to make stuff more expensive? It defies logic.