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A Reminder to CCP: We do not want microtransactions period.

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Myxx Atropos Group	Posted - 2011.08.26 14:57:00 - [1] GTFO with the nex store and eveisreal(crap) Do something useful with those art assets instead. LIKE PRIORITIZE EVERY SINGLE REQUEST THE CSM BROUGHT TO YOU AND YOU PUT ON HOLD "BECAUSE OF ART" ** your MT store. -- Originally by:** CCP Explorer (and if you guys would also stop using Drakes it would be really appreciated, kthxbye). Originally by: Tom Gerard Then again... I am a moron.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2011.08.26 15:00:00 - [2] Define: "We" --------
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.08.26 15:00:00 - [3] What NOT to do link in this post also see sig. If you at CCP dont know what NGE/CU is you can google it, but this IS yours -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too. This is your NGE/CU moment CCP.
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Veto Corp	Posted - 2011.08.26 15:01:00 - [4] Originally by: Abrazzar Define: "We" Those that doesn't like the MT/subscription combo I guess.
Myxx Atropos Group	Posted - 2011.08.26 15:04:00 - [5] Originally by: Mashie Saldana Originally by: Abrazzar Define: "We" Those that doesn't like the MT/subscription combo I guess. Which equates to a whole lot of people. -- Originally by: CCP Explorer (and if you guys would also stop using Drakes it would be really appreciated, kthxbye). Originally by: Tom Gerard Then again... I am a moron.
Written Word Written Word's Tax Haven	Posted - 2011.08.26 15:04:00 - [6] Lets see, despite being proven all across the industry that it makes a lot of money and has no tangible effect on player retention outside of forum screamers (you in this case).. they should stop it doing it right? You aren't going to quit. You'll whine but you'll go back to playing.
Vincent Athena	Posted - 2011.08.26 15:06:00 - [7] "We"? You got mice in your pocket?
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.08.26 15:06:00 - [8] Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 26/08/2011 15:06:01 Originally by: Written Word Lets see, despite being proven all across the industry that it makes a lot of money and has no tangible effect on player retention outside of forum screamers (you in this case).. they should stop it doing it right? You aren't going to quit. You'll whine but you'll go back to playing. an when the Greed is Good thing was leaked noone protested in game right? That was just rumors? -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too. This is your NGE/CU moment CCP.
Myxx Atropos Group	Posted - 2011.08.26 15:12:00 - [9] Originally by: Vincent Athena "We"? You got mice in your pocket? click the link in my OP. -- Originally by: CCP Explorer (and if you guys would also stop using Drakes it would be really appreciated, kthxbye). Originally by: Tom Gerard Then again... I am a moron.
Naran Eto	Posted - 2011.08.26 15:12:00 - [10] Originally by: Sullen Skoung Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 26/08/2011 15:06:01 Originally by: Written Word Lets see, despite being proven all across the industry that it makes a lot of money and has no tangible effect on player retention outside of forum screamers (you in this case).. they should stop it doing it right? You aren't going to quit. You'll whine but you'll go back to playing. an when the Greed is Good thing was leaked noone protested in game right? That was just rumors? You mean that little protest involving a couple hundred players while the other 30 thousand or so players sat back, laughed and yelled wtf was all that nonsense about?
Kesshisan Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.26 15:14:00 - [11] Personally, I don't really care about the micro-transactions because: 1) They do not give anyone an advantage in combat. 2) They are available to me using in-game currenty via isk to PLEX then PLEX to AUR if I cared about it. I do dislike the removed features with the whole station change (I want my double-click to open ship cargo back.) I do dislike the increased stress on my CPU while in station. And I do dislike the fact that CCP members are taking time away from developing other content to develop totally unnecessary avatar stuff. But I can deal. My machine runs it, but I do notice an increased amount of cpu latency in station since the change. The fitting window takes about 1.5 seconds to open instead of .5 seconds. Nothing I can't deal with, it's just annoying because I'm a trader/indy guy and I spend so much time docked up. Myxx, when you say "we" you need to define "we." "We" does not include me here. I may not be a glorious CEO of a corporation controlling 85% of null space, so perhaps I'm insignificant. But I still don't feel comfortable with someone else talking for me. I am not a part of your "we." .
Myxx Atropos Group	Posted - 2011.08.26 15:16:00 - [12] Originally by: Naran Eto Originally by: Sullen Skoung Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 26/08/2011 15:06:01 Originally by: Written Word Lets see, despite being proven all across the industry that it makes a lot of money and has no tangible effect on player retention outside of forum screamers (you in this case).. they should stop it doing it right? You aren't going to quit. You'll whine but you'll go back to playing. an when the Greed is Good thing was leaked noone protested in game right? That was just rumors? You mean that little protest involving a couple hundred players while the other 30 thousand or so players sat back, laughed and yelled wtf was all that nonsense about? Did it not get results and force them to bring the CSM back for a meeting regarding what to do about it? I'd say it was successful in getting what we wanted. Originally by: Kesshisan Personally, I don't really care about the micro-transactions because: 1) They do not give anyone an advantage in combat. 2) They are available to me using in-game currenty via isk to PLEX then PLEX to AUR if I cared about it. I do dislike the removed features with the whole station change (I want my double-click to open ship cargo back.) I do dislike the increased stress on my CPU while in station. And I do dislike the fact that CCP members are taking time away from developing other content to develop totally unnecessary avatar stuff. But I can deal. My machine runs it, but I do notice an increased amount of cpu latency in station since the change. The fitting window takes about 1.5 seconds to open instead of .5 seconds. Nothing I can't deal with, it's just annoying because I'm a trader/indy guy and I spend so much time docked up. Myxx, when you say "we" you need to define "we." "We" does not include me here. I may not be a glorious CEO of a corporation controlling 85% of null space, so perhaps I'm insignificant. But I still don't feel comfortable with someone else talking for me. I am not a part of your "we." I DID define "we". Its the link in my OP. -- Originally by: CCP Explorer (and if you guys would also stop using Drakes it would be really appreciated, kthxbye). Originally by: Tom Gerard Then again... I am a moron.
Naran Eto	Posted - 2011.08.26 15:20:00 - [13] Originally by: Myxx Originally by: Naran Eto Originally by: Sullen Skoung Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 26/08/2011 15:06:01 Originally by: Written Word Lets see, despite being proven all across the industry that it makes a lot of money and has no tangible effect on player retention outside of forum screamers (you in this case).. they should stop it doing it right? You aren't going to quit. You'll whine but you'll go back to playing. an when the Greed is Good thing was leaked noone protested in game right? That was just rumors? You mean that little protest involving a couple hundred players while the other 30 thousand or so players sat back, laughed and yelled wtf was all that nonsense about? Did it not get results and force them to bring the CSM back for a meeting regarding what to do about it? I'd say it was successful in getting what we wanted. It may have done, but i have a feeling that meeting was already secretly planned by CCP and actually had nothing to do with the protest to be honest, they just used it as a way to make us think we had gotten their attention.
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.08.26 15:21:00 - [14] Originally by: Myxx Did it not get results and force them to bring the CSM back for a meeting regarding what to do about it? I'd say it was successful in getting what we wanted. Yeah Im all against this but you gotta see what the CSM are an thats jack and ****. The original charter of that group was to go to Iceland to be a watchdog group to make sure CCP wasnt cheating again (as the idea was come up with as a result of T20 - I was there then). When that became impossible, they were turned (supposedly) into a sounding board for the suggestions from the players (a "forum" if you will, for "suggestions"). But CCP has and will continue to do things behind these guys' backs, omit them entirely from design decisions, thereby making that whole group redundant and unnecessary. Why? They know best. -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too. This is your NGE/CU moment CCP.
Naran Eto	Posted - 2011.08.26 15:28:00 - [15] Originally by: Kesshisan Personally, I don't really care about the micro-transactions because: 1) They do not give anyone an advantage in combat. 2) They are available to me using in-game currenty via isk to PLEX then PLEX to AUR if I cared about it. I do dislike the removed features with the whole station change (I want my double-click to open ship cargo back.) I do dislike the increased stress on my CPU while in station. And I do dislike the fact that CCP members are taking time away from developing other content to develop totally unnecessary avatar stuff. But I can deal. My machine runs it, but I do notice an increased amount of cpu latency in station since the change. The fitting window takes about 1.5 seconds to open instead of .5 seconds. Nothing I can't deal with, it's just annoying because I'm a trader/indy guy and I spend so much time docked up. Myxx, when you say "we" you need to define "we." "We" does not include me here. I may not be a glorious CEO of a corporation controlling 85% of null space, so perhaps I'm insignificant. But I still don't feel comfortable with someone else talking for me. I am not a part of your "we." I pretty much agree with most of this post, i don't mind micro transactions as long as the items purchased from the store don't effect game play in any way except for the "ooh shiny" aspect. Infact if you think about it, having micro tranactions added to the game is easier for us than other games, in other games you have to pay real money fo rthe items, here it's integrated with the ingame economy... A) the items can be sold on the market for isk,alot of MT mmo's the items are no trade. B) you can buy PLEX with isk and buy the items yourself. If you don't want to spend real money you don't have to, whereas in other mmo's you are forced to pay real money if you want that shiny. The only thing i don't like about the recent patches is the missing ship hangar, and as pointed out above the extra stress the cq puts on our machines, if they could add back the hangar we had and add a "dissembark" button so we could visit the cq as well as optimize the carbine engine to cause less stress then all would be fine with me.
Myxx Atropos Group	Posted - 2011.08.26 15:36:00 - [16] Originally by: Sullen Skoung Why? They know best. If they continue to think they know best, then history will be repeating itself in the not too distant future. It'll suck, too, just like it did back then. They have been warned plenty on ignoring the will of the playerbase, so if they continue to walk blindly ahed... well... Originally by: John Smedley, CEO of SOE The SWG community has been voting with it's feet since the NGE came about. Either we end up being right about our ability to turn the ship around and make a game that's BETTER than it was before, or we were wrong and we fail. Either way we were losing subs before the NGE and believe it or not, we are losing them at a slower rate than before. I'm not going to pretend we didn't lose a bunch of subs from this. We did. And I don't think the game is where it needs to be yet to aquire new subs. But it's getting there with each and every publish. At the end of the day there are a lot of people in this community that wonder why we did this? Why did we "deliberately" try and ** people off. Obviously that wasn't our intent. This is a business and we needed to improve the results of the business. Did we make a mistake? Maybe.. but only time is going to tell on that one. One thing is certain. We made a mistake with how we presented it to the community, and for that I'm sorry. I still think it was a needed thing though. It's not as simple as "you should have just fixed the things we were complaining about". That doesn't address the very real fact that what we had was a hardcore game that wasn't going to attract the mass audience that the Star Wars IP brings to the table. Smed Woe to CCP. -- Originally by:** CCP Explorer (and if you guys would also stop using Drakes it would be really appreciated, kthxbye). Originally by: Tom Gerard Then again... I am a moron.
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.08.26 15:49:00 - [17] Originally by: Myxx Originally by: Sullen Skoung Why? They know best. If they continue to think they know best, then history will be repeating itself in the not too distant future. It'll suck, too, just like it did back then. They have been warned plenty on ignoring the will of the playerbase, so if they continue to walk blindly ahed... well... I was trying to tie into my sig. It was irony lol -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too. This is your NGE/CU moment CCP.
Forum Worrier	Posted - 2011.08.26 15:50:00 - [18] We all love mt for isk. Long live the NEX!
Alex Sinai Mining And Probing Specialists	Posted - 2011.08.26 15:55:00 - [19] I'm with the OP. Close that NeX store for good, it was very bad idea. Get over it.
Mors Magne Astral Adventure	Posted - 2011.08.26 15:55:00 - [20] I think the clothes are all right - it's just that CCP should release 'establishments' ASAP to give the clothes greater meaning / use.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.26 15:57:00 - [21] Originally by: Naran Eto Originally by: Sullen Skoung Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 26/08/2011 15:06:01 Originally by: Written Word Lets see, despite being proven all across the industry that it makes a lot of money and has no tangible effect on player retention outside of forum screamers (you in this case).. they should stop it doing it right? You aren't going to quit. You'll whine but you'll go back to playing. an when the Greed is Good thing was leaked noone protested in game right? That was just rumors? You mean that little protest involving a couple hundred players while the other 30 thousand or so players sat back, laughed and yelled wtf was all that nonsense about? Ahhh, a good bit had the demands of what we were protesting met. Once again thank you CCP for 'listening' to our 'actions.' The people that don't get that kill me. Its like a little kid running around with their fingers in their ears screaming "I am not listening to you..."
Myxx Atropos Group	Posted - 2011.08.26 16:21:00 - [22] All they have to do is remove the nex store and it'll reduce a signifigant amount of ire against everything CCP does. -- Originally by: CCP Explorer (and if you guys would also stop using Drakes it would be really appreciated, kthxbye). Originally by: Tom Gerard Then again... I am a moron.
Lu'Marat	Posted - 2011.08.26 16:57:00 - [23] Edited by: Lu''Marat on 26/08/2011 17:04:39 Oh, it's this thread again. -1 Originally by: Myxx All they have to do is remove the nex store and it'll reduce a signifigant amount of ire against everything CCP does. Yeah right. It'll also spawn a wave of trolls clamoring about how CCP never goes through with anything, how they never should have thrown all that money at it in the first place, how CCP is obviously the most incompetent player on the market, and of course how this doesn't do anything to address <arbitrary fact they are unhappy about>. Sorry, but if you really think that'd work for CCP then I am not sure how much you know about the EVE community. And I'm not saying this to **** you off or troll you. Seriously, it doesn't work that way.
Trainwreck McGee	Posted - 2011.08.26 17:00:00 - [24] I am part of "we" and i approve this message.
Obsidian Hawk RONA Corporation RONA Directorate	Posted - 2011.08.26 17:34:00 - [25] I am not apart of this 'we' I dont care what they put in the store, but as long as they do not put in game altering items, like gold plated volkswagons to be used as ammo in 1400's. As long as it is kept to clothes, and possibly ship skins (im still undecided) I dont care what goes on in the nex store or MT.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Eternal Evocations	Posted - 2011.08.26 17:36:00 - [26] Edited by: Mendolus on 26/08/2011 17:38:38 Edited by: Mendolus on 26/08/2011 17:36:17 Originally by: Myxx Originally by: Mashie Saldana Originally by: Abrazzar Define: "We" Those that doesn't like the MT/subscription combo I guess. Which equates to a whole lot of people. Proof please? Originally by: Obsidian Hawk I am not apart of this 'we' I dont care what they put in the store, but as long as they do not put in game altering items, like gold plated volkswagons to be used as ammo in 1400's. As long as it is kept to clothes, and possibly ship skins (im still undecided) I dont care what goes on in the nex store or MT. This ^ Originally by: Vincent Athena "We"? You got mice in your pocket? +1 LOL, you are my hero for the day
Myxx Atropos Group	Posted - 2011.08.26 17:38:00 - [27] Edited by: Myxx on 26/08/2011 17:38:45 Originally by: Mendolus Edited by: Mendolus on 26/08/2011 17:36:17 Originally by: Myxx Originally by: Mashie Saldana Originally by: Abrazzar Define: "We" Those that doesn't like the MT/subscription combo I guess. Which equates to a whole lot of people. Proof please? Originally by: Obsidian Hawk I am not apart of this 'we' I dont care what they put in the store, but as long as they do not put in game altering items, like gold plated volkswagons to be used as ammo in 1400's. As long as it is kept to clothes, and possibly ship skins (im still undecided) I dont care what goes on in the nex store or MT. This ^ You weren't around when this was discussed, were you? Already linked it. A good 80 percent of the people in that thread were against it entirely. -- Originally by: CCP Explorer (and if you guys would also stop using Drakes it would be really appreciated, kthxbye). Originally by: Tom Gerard Then again... I am a moron.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Eternal Evocations	Posted - 2011.08.26 17:41:00 - [28] Edited by: Mendolus on 26/08/2011 17:43:58 Originally by: Myxx You weren't around when this was discussed, were you? Already linked it. A good 80 percent of the people in that thread were against it entirely. 13730 = 4,110 potentially unhappy people. How many subscriptions does EVE have again?* ... I will be generous for you, let's assume each of those people has two alternate accounts. 137303 = 12,330 accounts for 4,110 potentially unhappy people with an average of three accounts each. How many subscriptions does EVE have again?
Denidil Gallente Rape Pillage and Burn	Posted - 2011.08.26 17:42:00 - [29] Originally by: Myxx A good 80 percent of the people in that thread were against it entirely. because a voluntarily participation poll presented a small minority (forum posters) of the most extreme unforgiving *****s in a game of general *****s is a representative sample. that is just samplying bias - that's completely ignoring the fact that polls like that only tend to attract people with negative opinions of what is being asked about (self selection bias). hint: forum polls are proof of nothing. stop QQing.
Tian Jade Amarr Bad Bumblebee Incorporated	Posted - 2011.08.26 17:48:00 - [30] I purchased a coat. Cry all you want, a Plex is not that much money for me and I can support CCP in developing the game I love. You may flame now.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Eternal Evocations	Posted - 2011.08.26 17:57:00 - [31] Edited by: Mendolus on 26/08/2011 17:59:13 Originally by: Tian Jade I purchased a coat. Cry all you want, a Plex is not that much money for me and I can support CCP in developing the game I love. You may flame now. Thank you for being honest, and I hope you enjoy your fancy coat. Game is no different before you bought it, and won't be different after you bought it. So long as CCP decides whether to make that coat consumable or destructible at least. For now, I have a feeling that soon you will be unable to remove a NEX item back to your items hangar once you use it on a particular character even if you choose to display it or not on your avatar. I can flame you if you want tho, your avatar is pretty hot, altho you are prolly a G.I.R.L. in which case I retract my previous jests and firmly plant myself in my heterosexuality!
Bootleg Jack Potters Field	Posted - 2011.08.26 18:07:00 - [32] Originally by: Myxx Originally by: Mashie Saldana Originally by: Abrazzar Define: "We" Those that doesn't like the MT/subscription combo I guess. Which equates to a whole lot of people. You bet, in that thread OP linked a "whole lot" is basically 0.2% of the player base!! And that is assuming all the alts are stand alone accounts which is of course absurd. .2%, scary, imagine if they quit!!
Obsidian Hawk RONA Corporation RONA Directorate	Posted - 2011.08.26 18:34:00 - [33] I was around for the ship skin discussion and i did call bull**** on how they wanted to implement it. I am all for ship skins as long as it requires the original tech 1 variant to build it, and that the new version DOES NOT have stats better than the tech 1 variant.
Deryk Kyeld Veteran Defense Initiative	Posted - 2011.08.26 18:34:00 - [34] Edited by: Deryk Kyeld on 26/08/2011 18:34:09 Originally by: Sullen Skoung What NOT to do link in this post also see sig. If you at CCP dont know what NGE/CU is you can google it, but this IS yours LOL get real. NGE/CU were dramatic changes to the game that completely altered how it was played. Incarna has only added more features unless you believe ship spinning was a great part of the game. Don't compare apples to oranges. Incarna is nothing like NGE/CU.
Ranger 1 Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2011.08.26 18:52:00 - [35] Originally by: Cipher Jones Originally by: Naran Eto Originally by: Sullen Skoung Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 26/08/2011 15:06:01 Originally by: Written Word Lets see, despite being proven all across the industry that it makes a lot of money and has no tangible effect on player retention outside of forum screamers (you in this case).. they should stop it doing it right? You aren't going to quit. You'll whine but you'll go back to playing. an when the Greed is Good thing was leaked noone protested in game right? That was just rumors? You mean that little protest involving a couple hundred players while the other 30 thousand or so players sat back, laughed and yelled wtf was all that nonsense about? Ahhh, a good bit had the demands of what we were protesting met. Once again thank you CCP for 'listening' to our 'actions.' The people that don't get that kill me. Its like a little kid running around with their fingers in their ears screaming "I am not listening to you..." I usually don't disagree with you Cipher, but I can't honestly say I agree with that assessment. What really came out of the protests was pressure to communicate their intentions and plans better. In this regard the protests had a good and positive effect. However, those protests in no way changed CCP's game plan. It merely prompted them at doing a better job of communicating what that plan was to begin with, which had the beneficial effect of allaying most peoples fears (and took the wind out of the sails of all but the most persistant and obtuse forum troll celebrities). So no, I'm not saying the protests had no effect or weren't a good thing on some level, but the effect the protests had was not to force the game plan to change to something we liked better. Rather it's benefit was to force better communication and understanding of a plan that was actually pretty acceptable to begin with. @OP: Get over yourself. Most people have no issue with MT being in EVE in its current form or the with the Nex store in general (other than to lobby for it being made affordable to more people). If people didn't want to play around with it, the pricing levels wouldn't be an issue to begin with. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
Rhaegor Stormborn BURN EDEN Northern Coalition.	Posted - 2011.08.26 19:00:00 - [36] Originally by: Myxx GTFO with the nex store and eveisreal(crap) Do something useful with those art assets instead. LIKE PRIORITIZE EVERY SINGLE REQUEST THE CSM BROUGHT TO YOU AND YOU PUT ON HOLD "BECAUSE OF ART" **** your MT store. Agree. Like.
LuxLight	Posted - 2011.08.26 20:05:00 - [37] Originally by: Myxx A Reminder to CCP: We do not want microtransactions period. Wrong. I want microtransactions. Bring it on. Ships, gear, ammo, paint jobs, etc...
Alex Sinai Mining And Probing Specialists	Posted - 2011.08.26 20:14:00 - [38] Originally by: Ranger 1 @OP: Get over yourself. Most people have no issue with MT being in EVE in its current form or the with the Nex store in general (other than to lobby for it being made affordable to more people). If people didn't want to play around with it, the pricing levels wouldn't be an issue to begin with. Wrong. Most people who don't have issue with micro-transactions will leave pretty soon after these MTs get in full into the game. Hardcore players will leave the moment these MTs go into game changing items. And then CCP will cry out for people to return. With mails and offers. But once someone biomass there's no way he will return. And MTs of game changing items warrantee that biomass for hardcore players who sustained EVE for these years. And then EVE becomes F2P with P2W. With Dust 514 interaction... which will be P2W from the start... a game for a year to be around. And then collect dust on shelves. Well... it's name already includes that.
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.08.26 20:20:00 - [39] Originally by: Deryk Kyeld Edited by: Deryk Kyeld on 26/08/2011 18:40:24 Edited by: Deryk Kyeld on 26/08/2011 18:34:09 Originally by: Sullen Skoung What NOT to do link in this post also see sig. If you at CCP dont know what NGE/CU is you can google it, but this IS yours LOL get real. NGE/CU were dramatic changes to the game that completely altered how it was played. Incarna has only added more features unless you believe ship spinning was a integral part of the game. Don't compare apples to oranges. Incarna is nothing like NGE/CU. Oh the whole devaluing of High sec and forcing those players into the snapping jaws of the 0.0 elite? Thats not drastic either huh -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too. This is your NGE/CU moment CCP.
Ara Soulbright	Posted - 2011.08.26 20:23:00 - [40] Soon as I got money in my credit card I'll be getting some AUR. I'll dress up my Ken doll like a champ. And I'll also likely dress up another account's female character as his mistress. Soon as they come out with the short shorts and micro-skirts...
Alexzia Sevic	Posted - 2011.08.26 20:26:00 - [41] Originally by: Naran Eto You mean that little protest involving a couple hundred players while the other 30 thousand or so players sat back, laughed and yelled wtf was all that nonsense about? That sums up my sentiments about that entire ordeal. OP was likely in the midst of it trying to instill more nerd rage.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.26 20:40:00 - [42] Originally by: Obsidian Hawk I was around for the ship skin discussion and i did call bull**** on how they wanted to implement it. I am all for ship skins as long as it requires the original tech 1 variant to build it, and that the new version DOES NOT have stats better than the tech 1 variant. /signed. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Written Word Written Word's Tax Haven	Posted - 2011.08.26 21:13:00 - [43] Originally by: Sullen Skoung Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 26/08/2011 15:06:01 Originally by: Written Word Lets see, despite being proven all across the industry that it makes a lot of money and has no tangible effect on player retention outside of forum screamers (you in this case).. they should stop it doing it right? You aren't going to quit. You'll whine but you'll go back to playing. an when the Greed is Good thing was leaked noone protested in game right? That was just rumors? A nice talk about that subject Take note in the part where the biggest community whiners ending up paying more in the cash store than a non-whiner. Hugely unpopular PR, nasty articles being written, claims they have killed the game but they all kept their jobs and they are making more games.
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.08.26 21:37:00 - [44] Originally by: Written Word Originally by: Sullen Skoung Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 26/08/2011 15:06:01 Originally by: Written Word Lets see, despite being proven all across the industry that it makes a lot of money and has no tangible effect on player retention outside of forum screamers (you in this case).. they should stop it doing it right? You aren't going to quit. You'll whine but you'll go back to playing. an when the Greed is Good thing was leaked noone protested in game right? That was just rumors? A nice talk about that subject Take note in the part where the biggest community whiners ending up paying more in the cash store than a non-whiner. Hugely unpopular PR, nasty articles being written, claims they have killed the game but they all kept their jobs and they are making more games. Apples to Oragnes There is a big difference between a Free to play game where a subscriber who leaves over Micro-transactions wasn't paying anything anyway, and one from a subscription based game where that same player was paying $15 a month or more. In the first case if they leave who cares they were a free loader anyway. In the second that's $180 in actual real revenue per year for each account they cancel that is lost. This is why when 3000+ accounts clicked cancel CCP changed their "stay the course" plan and paid full fare to fly the CSM out to Iceland for their "Summit". You think "who cares that's only 3000 of 300,000" CCP's accounts went "hmm that's 1% of our accounts and 30001512... $540,000 real dollars per year lost. hold the presses lets rethink this" Actually if memory serves it was closer to 6k accounts so 2% of their revenue threatening to go buh-bye.
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.08.26 21:40:00 - [45] Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 26/08/2011 21:48:02 Originally by: Written Word Originally by: Sullen Skoung Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 26/08/2011 15:06:01 Originally by: Written Word Lets see, despite being proven all across the industry that it makes a lot of money and has no tangible effect on player retention outside of forum screamers (you in this case).. they should stop it doing it right? You aren't going to quit. You'll whine but you'll go back to playing. an when the Greed is Good thing was leaked noone protested in game right? That was just rumors? A nice talk about that subject Take note in the part where the biggest community whiners ending up paying more in the cash store than a non-whiner. Hugely unpopular PR, nasty articles being written, claims they have killed the game but they all kept their jobs and they are making more games. Link something I dont have to sign up to read -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too. This is your NGE/CU moment CCP.
Borun Tal Minmatar Space Pods Inc	Posted - 2011.08.26 21:45:00 - [46] God, not this again. Let me guess: another "failquitters who failed to quit" thread?
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.08.26 21:49:00 - [47] Originally by: Borun Tal God, not this again. Let me guess: another "failquitters who failed to quit" thread? Youre on EVE-O QQing about "another of THESE threads" um... thats 75% of what EVE-O is or ever was from what Ive seen. -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too. This is your NGE/CU moment CCP.
Borun Tal Minmatar Space Pods Inc	Posted - 2011.08.26 21:51:00 - [48] Originally by: Sullen Skoung Originally by: Borun Tal God, not this again. Let me guess: another "failquitters who failed to quit" thread? Youre on EVE-O QQing about "another of THESE threads" um... thats 75% of what EVE-O is or ever was from what Ive seen. Killing the last 10 minutes of a work day before I can head out to Lake Tahoe for the evening.
Ara Soulbright	Posted - 2011.08.26 21:54:00 - [49] Originally by: Sullen Skoung Originally by: Borun Tal God, not this again. Let me guess: another "failquitters who failed to quit" thread? Youre on EVE-O QQing about "another of THESE threads" um... thats 75% of what EVE-O is or ever was from what Ive seen. it's true... I bet if you did a search about "not another one of THESE threads" it would be 500+ pages of results. Dissmissive voices are heard more often than practical voices. Probably because people think they're more important when they say that, "I'm trying to help keep the forums clean, with my useless post, pointing out that your post is useless" LOL!!!
baltec1	Posted - 2011.08.26 21:58:00 - [50] Originally by: Sullen Skoung also see sig. If you at CCP dont know what NGE/CU is you can google it, but this IS yours As someone who was hit by the NGE I can safely say this is nothing like it.
Myxx Atropos Group	Posted - 2011.08.26 22:06:00 - [51] Edited by: Myxx on 26/08/2011 22:09:56 Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Sullen Skoung also see sig. If you at CCP dont know what NGE/CU is you can google it, but this IS yours As someone who was hit by the NGE I can safely say this is nothing like it. It has the same potential destructive weight on EVE. Consider that CCP thinks it knows best, as did Smed and George Lucas with SW:G. We all know how that went. IF CCP continues to ignore the playerbase in favor of their microtransactions and such... it could easily get out of hand again. I fear if it spirals out of control again, it'll do serious and lasting damage to the playerbase on the same level as the 'New Game Enhancements'. It easily could do that, if not worse. What I'm not saying, by the way, is that its on the same level of sweeping changes. That would be like turning EVE into an FPS in space (wtfhorribleidea). That would be even worse, infact. -- Originally by: CCP Explorer (and if you guys would also stop using Drakes it would be really appreciated, kthxbye). Originally by: Tom Gerard Then again... I am a moron.
Denidil Gallente Rape Pillage and Burn	Posted - 2011.08.26 22:10:00 - [52] Originally by: Myxx Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Sullen Skoung also see sig. If you at CCP dont know what NGE/CU is you can google it, but this IS yours As someone who was hit by the NGE I can safely say this is nothing like it. It has the same potential destructive weight on EVE. Consider that CCP thinks it knows best, as did Smed and George Lucas with SW:G. We all know how that went. IF CCP continues to ignore the playerbase in favor of their microtransactions and such... it could easily get out of hand again. I fear if it spirals out of control again, it'll do serious and lasting damage to the playerbase on the same level as the 'New Game Enhancements'. It easily could do that, if not worse. actually just so you know NGE/CU was done to SWG because George Lucas demanded it, Smed (who is normally a douche) really had nothing to do with it. most of SOE thought it was a dumb move. so again, you don't know what you're talking about. and comparing adding silly little cosmetic item MT to Eve to NGE/CU is completely and totally stupid. CCP not doing what YOU want them to do doesn't mean they're not listening to their player base, you don't have access to that data. i would be willing to wager the vast majority of the user base doesn't give a **** about cosmetic MT. now if they actually made MT for non-cosmetic items then a lot of the player base would raise a stink. The difference between the rest of us and you is we're not chicken littles.
baltec1	Posted - 2011.08.26 22:15:00 - [53] Originally by: Myxx Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Sullen Skoung also see sig. If you at CCP dont know what NGE/CU is you can google it, but this IS yours As someone who was hit by the NGE I can safely say this is nothing like it. It has the same potential destructive weight on EVE. Consider that CCP thinks it knows best, as did Smed and George Lucas with SW:G. We all know how that went. IF CCP continues to ignore the playerbase in favor of their microtransactions and such... it could easily get out of hand again. I fear if it spirals out of control again, it'll do serious and lasting damage to the playerbase on the same level as the 'New Game Enhancements'. It easily could do that, if not worse. Because adding a wider choice of pants is the same as removing my swordsman/pikeman build, destroying 250 heavy miners out of 260, removing decay which effectivly wiped out the economy and making traders useless, taking away faction fighting and dumbing down the NPCs so much that the hardest content can be done in hotpants with your fists as the only weapon.
Myxx Atropos Group	Posted - 2011.08.26 22:17:00 - [54] Originally by: Denidil Originally by: Myxx Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Sullen Skoung also see sig. If you at CCP dont know what NGE/CU is you can google it, but this IS yours As someone who was hit by the NGE I can safely say this is nothing like it. It has the same potential destructive weight on EVE. Consider that CCP thinks it knows best, as did Smed and George Lucas with SW:G. We all know how that went. IF CCP continues to ignore the playerbase in favor of their microtransactions and such... it could easily get out of hand again. I fear if it spirals out of control again, it'll do serious and lasting damage to the playerbase on the same level as the 'New Game Enhancements'. It easily could do that, if not worse. actually just so you know NGE/CU was done to SWG because George Lucas demanded it, Smed (who is normally a douche) really had nothing to do with it. most of SOE thought it was a dumb move. so again, you don't know what you're talking about. and comparing adding silly little cosmetic item MT to Eve to NGE/CU is completely and totally stupid. CCP not doing what YOU want them to do doesn't mean they're not listening to their player base, you don't have access to that data. i would be willing to wager the vast majority of the user base doesn't give a ** about cosmetic MT. now if they actually made MT for non-cosmetic items then a lot of the player base would raise a stink. The difference between the rest of us and you is we're not chicken littles. I very much do know what I'm talking about, because I played that game from its fourth day til not too long ago. I'm NOT talking about the sweeping changes they made. I'm comparing the potential destruction it could cause the playerbase. I was very much a fan of incarna up until they ed it up with the NEX store. I was very much a fan of the new forums and eve gate... until they decided to hire an incompetent web team. I still think it could work, but CCP are arrogant tards sometimes and bite too much off and get themselves into positions where they promise things will be fixed/delt with a certain way, and then that up because they underestimate the problems they face. -- Originally by:** CCP Explorer (and if you guys would also stop using Drakes it would be really appreciated, kthxbye). Originally by: Tom Gerard Then again... I am a moron.
baltec1	Posted - 2011.08.26 22:23:00 - [55] Originally by: Myxx Heh, okay, point made there, it only nearly rivals the disgust I felt having my TKM/Mdoc and pistoleer/smuggler/tka builds wiped out but not quite. Doesnt change the fact they're pushing it on people who don't want to **ing deal with it in the exact same **ing way. I have more use for incarna than I do for wormholes, t3 ships and a dedicated salvager.
Denidil Gallente Rape Pillage and Burn	Posted - 2011.08.26 22:23:00 - [56] Originally by: Myxx I very much do know what I'm talking about, because I played that game from its fourth day til not too long ago. having played a game since the dawn of time doesn't mean you know **. I actually know people who are in design leadership positions at Sony, so I get my information from the horses mouth so to speak. Can MT ruin Eve? Absolutely, just like they CAN destroy any game Has Cosmetic MT ruined any game ever? None that i have ever seen Does having cosmetic MT mean that the game company is simply going to make non-cosmetic, it is a rule of the universe? Absolutely not. Do uninformed users often consider developers to be arrogant (not just of games)? Absolutely, because the devs get tired of explaining complex answers to people incapable of understanding them, over and over. Do you need to chill the ** out? absolutely.
Myxx Atropos Group	Posted - 2011.08.26 22:26:00 - [57] Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Myxx Heh, okay, point made there, it only nearly rivals the disgust I felt having my TKM/Mdoc and pistoleer/smuggler/tka builds wiped out but not quite. Doesnt change the fact they're pushing it on people who don't want to **ing deal with it in the exact same ing way. I have more use for incarna than I do for wormholes, t3 ships and a dedicated salvager. I have signifigantly more use for making starbases less of a pain in the ass than I do the nex store, or finding an alternative to starbases such as the smallholding proposal. -- Originally by:** CCP Explorer (and if you guys would also stop using Drakes it would be really appreciated, kthxbye). Originally by: Tom Gerard Then again... I am a moron.
Alex Sinai Mining And Probing Specialists	Posted - 2011.08.26 22:27:00 - [58] Hey all the proud defenders of MT in EVE Online because it's vanity items, don't you **s know about Ishukone Scorpion affair just before Incarna release? That thing surfaced for a moment and then got wiped completely. And the discussion was that this Battleship will be sold solely in NeX MT store. When Incarna arrived and *t hit the fan CCP hid that Ishukone Scorpion as far as they only could. So I'd suggest you rethink your "vanity" defense. Because you will end up with Battleships and golden ammo in subscription game. Probably by then it already will be F2P P2W since a lot of people will leave by that time.
baltec1	Posted - 2011.08.26 22:33:00 - [59] Originally by: Alex Sinai Hey all the proud defenders of MT in EVE Online because it's vanity items, don't you **s know about Ishukone Scorpion affair just before Incarna release? That thing surfaced for a moment and then got wiped completely. And the discussion was that this Battleship will be sold solely in NeX MT store. When Incarna arrived and *t hit the fan CCP hid that Ishukone Scorpion as far as they only could. So I'd suggest you rethink your "vanity" defense. Because you will end up with Battleships and golden ammo in subscription game. Probably by then it already will be F2P P2W since a lot of people will leave by that time. No they put the plans on hold untill they can get the BPC working correctly to accept a scorp in the build process. They originally wanted to put it up for a while without a need for a normal scorp untill they could get the system changed. We shot down the idea and they agreed with the playerbase.
Alex Sinai Mining And Probing Specialists	Posted - 2011.08.26 22:38:00 - [60] Originally by: baltec1 No they put the plans on hold untill they can get the BPC working correctly to accept a scorp in the build process. They originally wanted to put it up for a while without a need for a normal scorp untill they could get the system changed. We shot down the idea and they agreed with the playerbase. No they put the plans on hold until they feel it's relatively safe to introduce it in their NeX MT shop. Because they suddenly realized that doing so at this moment will ruin their income and potentially reduce the playerbase to unrecoverable levels. But the plans are right there. It's the same as their statements a year ago "we do not have plans for MT shop". Take a look at MT shop in game today.
Myxx Atropos Group	Posted - 2011.08.26 22:39:00 - [61] Edited by: Myxx on 26/08/2011 22:44:27 Edited by: Myxx on 26/08/2011 22:43:53 Originally by: Alex Sinai Originally by: baltec1 No they put the plans on hold untill they can get the BPC working correctly to accept a scorp in the build process. They originally wanted to put it up for a while without a need for a normal scorp untill they could get the system changed. We shot down the idea and they agreed with the playerbase. No they put the plans on hold until they feel it's relatively safe to introduce it in their NeX MT shop. Because they suddenly realized that doing so at this moment will ruin their income and potentially reduce the playerbase to unrecoverable levels. But the plans are right there. It's the same as their statements a year ago "we do not have plans for MT shop". Take a look at MT shop in game today. This. I pretty much don't need to add much more. oh... and as for the scorpion? it doesnt even LOOK worthwhile. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlt5VhTCN4Q Quote: Ingame description: With its focus on electronic warfare, few ships can resist the direct onslaught of the Ishukone Watch Scorpion-class battleship's jamming capabilities. Traits 15% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength per level 20% bonus to ECM Target Jammer optimal and falloff range per level 20% Bonus to ECM Burst range per level Details This variant of the Scorpion represents the pinnacle of the Ishukone paramilitary force's electronic warfare capabilities. Development When Ishukone Watch was commissioned to produce a run of Scorpion-class battleships for its parent company, it was decided that a number of extra units would be offered to the capsuleer community to help fund the effort. Interestingly, the entire project took less than one year from start to finish, suggesting at some degree of urgency in the fleet's production. Technology Though the typical Scorpion-class battleship includes a highly advanced sensor package, Ishukone Watch modifies their ships for policing duty around their worlds. Custom multispectral radiation scanners designed to catch all forms of planetary and extra-planetary communications replace the standard comms suite. Special LADAR and thermal imaging equipment allow Ishukone Watch ships to serve as a distant eye-in-the-sky for planetary security forces. Although these features are stripped out before decommissioned hulls are placed on the open market, the infamy of the Ishukone Watch still makes ships popular with independent ship buyers. Notes Many wonder why Ishukone Watch would produce a massive run of electronic warfare battleships, especially with sensor suites fine-tuned to detect planetside signals. Some have speculated that these ships were intended to support a larger, multinational fleet. Regarding the mass production of these ships, Ishukone Watch CEO Eborimi Shiskala praised her parent corporation with an "incredible dedication to the Ishukone doctrine of technological superiority." -- Originally by: CCP Explorer (and if you guys would also stop using Drakes it would be really appreciated, kthxbye). Originally by: Tom Gerard Then again... I am a moron.
Denidil Gallente Rape Pillage and Burn	Posted - 2011.08.26 22:54:00 - [62] Originally by: Alex Sinai Originally by: baltec1 No they put the plans on hold untill they can get the BPC working correctly to accept a scorp in the build process. They originally wanted to put it up for a while without a need for a normal scorp untill they could get the system changed. We shot down the idea and they agreed with the playerbase. No they put the plans on hold until they feel it's relatively safe to introduce it in their NeX MT shop. Because they suddenly realized that doing so at this moment will ruin their income and potentially reduce the playerbase to unrecoverable levels. But the plans are right there. It's the same as their statements a year ago "we do not have plans for MT shop". Take a look at MT shop in game today. so... they want to introduce a BPC to the NeX store that accepts a scorpion, and outputs a scorpion with a different paint job - but same attributes (cap, cpu, pg, etc)? and this is bad.. because? that would qualify as cosmetic. seriously stop **ing your pants long enough to realize that nobody gives a about cosmetic items - and nobody SHOULD give a **. you know how much FUN it will be to Pop an Ishukone Scorp for the lulz?
Myxx Atropos Group	Posted - 2011.08.26 22:59:00 - [63] Originally by: Denidil Originally by: Alex Sinai Originally by: baltec1 No they put the plans on hold untill they can get the BPC working correctly to accept a scorp in the build process. They originally wanted to put it up for a while without a need for a normal scorp untill they could get the system changed. We shot down the idea and they agreed with the playerbase. No they put the plans on hold until they feel it's relatively safe to introduce it in their NeX MT shop. Because they suddenly realized that doing so at this moment will ruin their income and potentially reduce the playerbase to unrecoverable levels. But the plans are right there. It's the same as their statements a year ago "we do not have plans for MT shop". Take a look at MT shop in game today. so... they want to introduce a BPC to the NeX store that accepts a scorpion, and outputs a scorpion with a different paint job - but same attributes (cap, cpu, pg, etc)? and this is bad.. because? that would qualify as cosmetic. seriously stop **ing your pants long enough to realize that nobody gives a about cosmetic items - and nobody SHOULD give a . you know how much FUN it will be to Pop an Ishukone Scorp for the lulz? so where does it STOP in that vein? Can't trust CCP or any developer for that matter to keep to their 'we do not have any plans for x at this time'. And more often than not, that has infact turned out to be decidedly false. So infact, they can't really say jack that will be taken for more than a lie because they've gone back on it too many times. -- Originally by:** CCP Explorer (and if you guys would also stop using Drakes it would be really appreciated, kthxbye). Originally by: Tom Gerard Then again... I am a moron.
Alex Sinai Mining And Probing Specialists	Posted - 2011.08.26 23:00:00 - [64] Originally by: Denidil Originally by: Alex Sinai Originally by: baltec1 No they put the plans on hold untill they can get the BPC working correctly to accept a scorp in the build process. They originally wanted to put it up for a while without a need for a normal scorp untill they could get the system changed. We shot down the idea and they agreed with the playerbase. No they put the plans on hold until they feel it's relatively safe to introduce it in their NeX MT shop. Because they suddenly realized that doing so at this moment will ruin their income and potentially reduce the playerbase to unrecoverable levels. But the plans are right there. It's the same as their statements a year ago "we do not have plans for MT shop". Take a look at MT shop in game today. so... they want to introduce a BPC to the NeX store that accepts a scorpion, and outputs a scorpion with a different paint job - but same attributes (cap, cpu, pg, etc)? and this is bad.. because? that would qualify as cosmetic. seriously stop **ing your pants long enough to realize that nobody gives a about cosmetic items - and nobody SHOULD give a . you know how much FUN it will be to Pop an Ishukone Scorp for the lulz? You have difficulty reading posts? Or missing parts of it? The initial plan was and still is to put Ishukone Scorpion without** any BPC or whatever else. Just a ship out of thin air. That plan is on hold until they decide they can introduce it without loosing half of their playerbase that same day. If you have any doubts please reread again a year back statements by CCP employees "We do not have any plans for MT shop" and take a look at that MT shop in game today.
Stitcher Caldari	Posted - 2011.08.26 23:36:00 - [65] An observation: the voting thread linked in the original post is 137 pages long at 15 posts per page, though the last page only has 4 comments on it at the time of writing. so, that's (1367)+4=2044 votes approximate number of subscribing EVE accounts: 360,000-ish. With some generous rounding, let's call it 300K to allow for alt accounts and ragequits. So the percentage of the total paying, playing population of the game who have voted in that thread, positively, negatively or neutrally is... (2044 / 300,000)100 = 0.68 0.68%. just over two thirds of one percent. In other words; NOBODY CARES. The dissenting voices, or even the ones like me actually speaking up in favour of the NeX store, are in a vanishingly tiny minority. So, my reminder to CCP would be - don't listen to the forums. Forum users are a small minority who make an excessive amount of noise. Let people vote with their dollars, PLEX and AURUM instead. that is the metric which should indicate whether the players are generally happy with the introduction of the NeX store. To said small and excessively noisy minority - EVE is a playground for trying things that are new and controversial. Luddites like you lot can GTFO out of our game, and give me your stuff as you go. don't let THE DOOR hit you on the way out. - - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain.
Denidil Gallente Rape Pillage and Burn	Posted - 2011.08.27 00:28:00 - [66] Originally by: Alex Sinai Originally by: Denidil Originally by: Alex Sinai Originally by: baltec1 No they put the plans on hold untill they can get the BPC working correctly to accept a scorp in the build process. They originally wanted to put it up for a while without a need for a normal scorp untill they could get the system changed. We shot down the idea and they agreed with the playerbase. No they put the plans on hold until they feel it's relatively safe to introduce it in their NeX MT shop. Because they suddenly realized that doing so at this moment will ruin their income and potentially reduce the playerbase to unrecoverable levels. But the plans are right there. It's the same as their statements a year ago "we do not have plans for MT shop". Take a look at MT shop in game today. apparently i understood it better than you, because i understood that they said it was a temporary solution until they could fix the BPC. when the players said "nah, that's not good" they actually used logic and convinced CCP that they're correct. so... they want to introduce a BPC to the NeX store that accepts a scorpion, and outputs a scorpion with a different paint job - but same attributes (cap, cpu, pg, etc)? and this is bad.. because? that would qualify as cosmetic. seriously stop **ing your pants long enough to realize that nobody gives a about cosmetic items - and nobody SHOULD give a . you know how much FUN it will be to Pop an Ishukone Scorp for the lulz? You have difficulty reading posts? Or missing parts of it? The initial plan was and still is to put Ishukone Scorpion without any BPC or whatever else. Just a ship out of thin air. That plan is on hold until they decide they can introduce it without loosing half of their playerbase that same day. If you have any doubts please reread again a year back statements by CCP employees "We do not have any plans for MT shop" and take a look at that MT shop in game today. Originally by:** Myxx Originally by: Denidil Originally by: Alex Sinai Originally by: baltec1 No they put the plans on hold untill they can get the BPC working correctly to accept a scorp in the build process. They originally wanted to put it up for a while without a need for a normal scorp untill they could get the system changed. We shot down the idea and they agreed with the playerbase. No they put the plans on hold until they feel it's relatively safe to introduce it in their NeX MT shop. Because they suddenly realized that doing so at this moment will ruin their income and potentially reduce the playerbase to unrecoverable levels. But the plans are right there. It's the same as their statements a year ago "we do not have plans for MT shop". Take a look at MT shop in game today. so... they want to introduce a BPC to the NeX store that accepts a scorpion, and outputs a scorpion with a different paint job - but same attributes (cap, cpu, pg, etc)? and this is bad.. because? that would qualify as cosmetic. seriously stop **ing your pants long enough to realize that nobody gives a about cosmetic items - and nobody SHOULD give a . you know how much FUN it will be to Pop an Ishukone Scorp for the lulz? so where does it STOP in that vein? Can't trust CCP or any developer for that matter to keep to their 'we do not have any plans for x at this time'. And more often than not, that has infact turned out to be decidedly false. So infact, they can't really say jack ** that will be taken for more than a lie because they've gone back on it too many times. your level of paranoia borders on medical.
Black Dranzer Caldari	Posted - 2011.08.27 01:00:00 - [67] Stiff **** for us, huh.
tika te	Posted - 2011.08.27 02:46:00 - [68] just few points here. 1. like allready mentioned: about 75-80% of the playerbase don't want mt at all, few percent just tolerate it as long as it's vanity only...do the math.. 2. if my 2x15 euro per month are not enough support for the game i love the chances are high CCP absolutely has no clue how to operate in the profit zone AND further develop/evolve this game at the same time; maybe it's just greed... i know - truth hurts. basicaly MT is all about increasing or "optimising" revenue per player (RPP).. 3. to came back on 2. from different POV: i'm sick of seing how the money i pay trough sub is used to use developing resources for mt items i have to pay AGAIN if i want to use them and EVEN WORSE to develop games (dust, wod) that will even more base on that buissines model (pay to win or better pay-or-be-second-class-player/cannonfodder)- I HATE IT and IT makes me SICK. btw - developed for a console market exclusively...WE - the PC gamer - make you stand where you are now CCP... bit off-topic: 4. this games core is about spaceships - why the hell wasn't there a dedicated dev team who care about ballancing issues there..until few weeks/months ago a single ccp dev decided he should do the job...
Cave Lord	Posted - 2011.08.27 02:47:00 - [69] Why my ENTIRE corp left EVE: picture
Forum Worrier	Posted - 2011.08.27 03:27:00 - [70] Originally by: Cave Lord Why my ENTIRE corp left EVE: picture Cause one of their corpmates couldn't figure out how to use the text tool?
AnzacPaul the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2011.08.27 04:06:00 - [71] I could of probably swallowed vanity mt if the game wasn't so broken, and resources that could of been used elsewhere to fix the game are being used to develop nex store items. ______
Aldan Romar Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2011.08.27 06:15:00 - [72] Originally by: Myxx ... so where does it STOP in that vein? Can't trust CCP or any developer for that matter to keep to their 'we do not have any plans for x at this time'. And more often than not, that has infact turned out to be decidedly false. So infact, they can't really say jack **** that will be taken for more than a lie because they've gone back on it too many times. So your idea of a compromise is tearing the NEX down? You are a hell of a negotiator... You distrust your opposites, you speculate about all the bad things they could do even though nothing bad happens at the moment. Are you sure you are at the right table? 'Style over substance 'There is nothing worse than leaving a bad looking corpse.
Thornat	Posted - 2011.08.27 06:35:00 - [73] Its an unfortunate aspect of the MMO industry but it is a fact that games that have added microtransactions or started with them have become far more successful and had their life spans extended. I can't explain it, I don't get it either, I don't understand how paying for digital bull**** works but it does and people pay and to be honest I found myself doing it as well. POXNORA, Magic the Gathering Online, Star Chamber and Everquest 2 are just a couple of the games that got me. In a way CCP is like the Captain and crew of the Titanic. They have all this historical data about Eve, experiance and knowledge about the industry all basically telling them that "this is a good idea", yet the only place it will lead them despite all that is a disaster. All their experiance is working against them. CCP has the luxary of a piece of information that the titanic captain and crew didn't have. The warning. They just barely missed one iceberg already as the sheer mention of the remote possibility that just maybe sometime in some distant future their might be micro transactions for gameplay items caused an uproar and exodus unlike anything we have seen in Eve in 8 years. It was a warning and has Hilmar has said himself, watch not what they say but what they do. I really how CCP is watching player actions as a result of the NEX store so far. I agree with who ever said this is CCP's NGE, I think thats very accurate. If the NEX store becomes anything more than a throw away vanity items store, the games population will dwindle considerably and to Eve a dwindling population will cause a domino effect unlike other games because so much of the content in this game is player dependent.
Empy Ralt	Posted - 2011.08.27 09:20:00 - [74] It's true. Games go F2P and cash-shop when they've basically failed or become outdated. Just look at LoTRO, Champions online, D&D online, EQ2, crime-craft, Fallen Earth. Or you can have F2P and cash-shop like the much quoted battlefield heroes. Subscription plus cash-shop is rarer. WoW can do it but it's the goliath of the MMO space. For a dated and niche game like Eve, which relies on a small but loyal audience, it's probably an act of Hubris. That said I don't care, as long as it is cosmetic items only, but that doesn't excuse their complete lack of adding game-play content. Not even Wow would have the chutzpah to release an "expansion" that is just a cash-shop with no new gameplay.
Stitcher Caldari	Posted - 2011.08.27 09:58:00 - [75] Edited by: Stitcher on 27/08/2011 10:02:33 Edited by: Stitcher on 27/08/2011 09:59:28 Originally by: tika te 1. like allready mentioned: about 75-80% of the playerbase don't want mt at all, few percent just tolerate it as long as it's vanity only...do the math.. and, like I already mentioned, it's not 75%-80% of the playerbase, it's 75% to 80% of those players who feel strongly enough to get on the forums and vote in a thread about it. Which is less than 1% of the total playerbase. There is an enormous selection bias inherent in that survey. Huge. It just isn't a valid source to draw conclusions from. Furthermore, it was started in 2010, before the NeX store was released and when the forums were absolutely riddled with paranoid and inaccurate speculation about how it was going to involve "pay 2 win" items and suchlike. half the votes on that survey pre-empt actual experience of the thing that's being voted on. That survey shows one thing because its responders are almost universally people who feel strongly enough about NeX to get on the forums and express their opinions, and it's a demonstrable fact that people who feel negative about something are far more pro-active in expressing their opinions than people who feel positive about something. If you were to take a show of hands at Fanfest, you'd get a different result because Fanfest attendees are... well... fans! Very few will have attended fanfest specifically to make their opinion on NeX known - the vast majority will just be there as fans of the game, and I suspect the response would be more strongly positive. But it's still not an accurate image because now there's a selection bias towards those people who feel sufficiently strongly positive about the game and CCP to spend hundreds of pounds flying out to Iceland so they can get drunk and cheer about whatever's coming up, then drunkenly design-democracy a spaceship that is made of like ten thousand wings. The only way to survey the opinion of the playerbase as a whole on NeX is passively. That means market metrics. It means looking at how many PLEX are traded as-is, and how many are converted to AURUM. It means looking at the number of NeX purchases that happen per week. It means, in other words, the kind of material and research that goes into making a QEN, and I look forward to seeing a NeX QEN come out that blows all of this "THE PLAYERS DO NOT WANT MT!" bullsh*t out of the sky and then pods it. - - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain.
Pytria Le'Danness	Posted - 2011.08.27 10:08:00 - [76] I'm not sure microtransactions are bad for EVE. If done right they might breathe in new life into the game by providing another way for the company to earn money which they can then use to make the game more awesome for us all. What bothers me is that the stuff right now does not look "done right". First of all, from a purely technical point of view the NEx store is awful. It looks as if it was thrown together with basic Windows controls in an afternoon with no regard to functionality, user friendlyness and future expansions. It's just a big list of icons without any ordering or sorting. I could have thrown it together in an afternoon using standard Windows controls. No sorting, no searching, no categories. If the NEx ever grows to the 1/100 size of the current EVE item market it will be impossible to use. This looks thrown together and not really well thought out and makes me wonder if it was more than just a testbed that got pushed public too soon, too fast. The same with the stuff on sale itself. Never mind that I think that the stuff looks crappy and boring (it's all matter of taste after all), it mainly looks to me like a massive misplacement of resources. How many identical shirts are there, just different by swapping out one color? Ok, maybe the idea was to sell more items by not offering customisation options, but even then I'd have made some of the textures configurable so you can only pass some parameters and turn the same 3D model into a blue, beige, black or whatever shirt. Heck, you could even sold the shirt for 20M ISK and each recoloration for 5M or the equivalent in Owrum. However the frequency at which this stuff appears (and half a dozen new things are announced with the air as if they were a new expansion) make me feel as if a graphic designer copied a 3D file, exchanged some textures and then sat back for a month playing Tetris while telling his boss that he is hard at work and how difficult it is to change the color. The prices are ridiculous. Even if it is just ISK and not real money, I wonder how they came up with the idea of that pricing - which exceeds RL costs for similar items - just for some 3D models. Maybe they took a page off DAZ3Ds or Renderosities' book, but those stores are selling 3D items for renders you get to keep and sometimes make a living off. And look at the price difference on the stuff. The very same shirt in a different color once costs 4500Ow, the other 1500. Why? If I buy a blue or red car, the price is more or less the same. Even getting my new car in a metallic color did not triple the price, it was just a few 100Ç up (out of a total approaching Ç30k). The current pricing does reek of a rip-off attempt, not a decent and well-thought out business model. Also, it totally snubs a lot of people that cannot or want not afford that stuff. While I always found ISK easy to make in EVE I know a lot of people who are struggling to keep a battleship or two around. Hell, some people even said they can't even afford battlecruisers. They always had the option to sell PLEX and buy that, yet obviously did not. Why is dev time wasted for a minority? The fact that the stuff appears out of thin air and is indestructible is just not EVE's style. Everything else so far has been designed and developed to be player produced. Slash prices down, sell BPCs and require PI materials to produce the clothes. I bet people would have loved it. Make the stuff destructable even when worn and you'll sell a lot more over time. But most of all the laughable attempts at damage control annoy me. I'd been perfectly fine with a "Hey folks, money is tight, so we're planning to sell this and that in the future". But first "No, Nevar!", then "Pay us $99 per year if you want to make a web site" and now the NEx. That just all sums CCP up as a not very trustworthy partner.
Inspiration	Posted - 2011.08.27 10:33:00 - [77] Edited by: Inspiration on 27/08/2011 10:36:26 I shouldn't even take bait of the trolls that say it's only a small population that has serious issues with MT. Well I got news for you, it is NOT a small minority that is very vocal about it. It is not those few hundred players shooting a monument in Jita or Amarr. Many multiples of that are just as displeased up to the level of being outraged. I am one of them, the whole Incarna expansion thing has become a bad joke, a devolution of a game. A lot of slowly building up frustration with the recent game development reached a threshold when MT was introduced in incarna. Not that it was the drip in the proverbial full bucket of water! It was a half a bucked of water dropping into an already full bucket of water! Result: less subscribers, and less active player base. Many players are just doing something else while in EVE they do nothing then keeping the skill queue filled up and log off again. I am one of them BTW. And seen many trading in NeX items yet? Given that there is always a few that try to play trade and speculation games, there seems to be no demand at all for anything currently being offered at least. And BTW, anything in game that can be traded with in game currency and comes only in existence with spending real life currency and stays in game, is at the very least messing with the sandbox. Even in game, you can only spend your earned ISK once, anything that is introduced from the outside will affect things, vanity or not!!! It's sad that after so many time and heated discussions not everyone understands the basic concepts of economics yet. The CSM members too failed miserably in this respect after being informed by thousands of players of the consequences. The only reason it has not yet had an in game detrimental market effect is that almost no one wants to buy anything in the shop! For some mysterious reason CCP and MT supporters see this as evidence that there will be no ill effects. Go figure!
Tokyo Rose	Posted - 2011.08.27 10:38:00 - [78] I could care less about microtransactions. If someone wants to drop a few hundred real life dollars on a monocle and some faded virtual jeans let them. What I want is for ccp to get past this carebear expansion fetish phase and get back to the pvp roots that made eve, well, eve.
Myxx Atropos Group	Posted - 2011.08.27 12:39:00 - [79] Originally by: Aldan Romar Originally by: Myxx ... so where does it STOP in that vein? Can't trust CCP or any developer for that matter to keep to their 'we do not have any plans for x at this time'. And more often than not, that has infact turned out to be decidedly false. So infact, they can't really say jack **** that will be taken for more than a lie because they've gone back on it too many times. So your idea of a compromise is tearing the NEX down? You are a hell of a negotiator... You distrust your opposites, you speculate about all the bad things they could do even though nothing bad happens at the moment. Are you sure you are at the right table? In an ideal world, the NEX store wouldn't have even been thought of in the first place.
Denidil Gallente Rape Pillage and Burn	Posted - 2011.08.27 14:13:00 - [80] Edited by: Denidil on 27/08/2011 14:12:46 Originally by: Inspiration Edited by: Inspiration on 27/08/2011 10:36:26 I shouldn't even take bait of the trolls that say it's only a small population that has serious issues with MT. Well I got news for you, it is NOT a small minority that is very vocal about it. It is not those few hundred players shooting a monument in Jita or Amarr. you fail at math. realllllly hard. divided a "few hundred" by "a few hundred thousand". then get back to me. the only troll here is YOU. I christen you "Math Fail Troll". ******.
Myxx Atropos Group	Posted - 2011.08.27 14:18:00 - [81] Edited by: Myxx on 27/08/2011 14:19:08 Originally by: Denidil Edited by: Denidil on 27/08/2011 14:12:46 Originally by: Inspiration Edited by: Inspiration on 27/08/2011 10:36:26 I shouldn't even take bait of the trolls that say it's only a small population that has serious issues with MT. Well I got news for you, it is NOT a small minority that is very vocal about it. It is not those few hundred players shooting a monument in Jita or Amarr. you fail at math. realllllly hard. divided a "few hundred" by "a few hundred thousand". then get back to me. the only troll here is YOU. I christen you "Math Fail Troll". ******. You must be stupid. What inspiration is saying, is that the population that don't like microtransactions is far larger than just a few hundred people that are vocal about it.
Denidil Gallente Rape Pillage and Burn	Posted - 2011.08.27 14:20:00 - [82] Originally by: Myxx .... Originally by: Arnar Hrafn Gylfason, Senior Producer for EVE Online It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store. Originally by: The Mittani, Chairman of CSM 6 Game-affecting Virtual Goods: We are convinced that CCP has no plans to introduce any game-affecting virtual goods, only pure vanity items such as clothing and ship skins. We have been repeatedly assured that there are no plans for ægold ammo', ships which have different statistics from existing common hulls, or any other feared ægame destroying' virtual goods or services. We have expressed our deep concern about potential grey areas that the introduction of virtual goods permits, and CCP has made a commitment to discuss any proposals that might fall into these grey areas in detail with CSM at the earliest possible stage. both from http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=935 which is a nearly 2 month old dev blog i trust the CSM to do two things: be rabidly pro-0.0, and keep game affecting MT out of eve.
Denidil Gallente Rape Pillage and Burn	Posted - 2011.08.27 14:23:00 - [83] Originally by: Myxx You must be stupid. What inspiration is saying, is that the population that don't like microtransactions is far larger than just a few hundred people that are vocal about it. i know very well what they're trying to say. they have no evidence to support their (your) position. they have a thread they can refer to that shows that there are some people who don't like it. we get that you're paranoid delusionals worried that just because some other **ty F2P games had problems with MT that means all games that have MT must be **ty. which is obviously not true looking at the market. CCP never intends to introduce anything that affects gameplay. so i'm fine with it. i think they should spend the art time on more productive things, but i'm not going to be all butthurt about vanity MT. the game is still fun.
Inspiration	Posted - 2011.08.27 15:46:00 - [84] Originally by: Denidil Originally by: Myxx You must be stupid. What inspiration is saying, is that the population that don't like microtransactions is far larger than just a few hundred people that are vocal about it. i know very well what they're trying to say. they have no evidence to support their (your) position. they have a thread they can refer to that shows that there are some people who don't like it. we get that you're paranoid delusionals worried that just because some other **ty F2P games had problems with MT that means all games that have MT must be **ty. which is obviously not true looking at the market. CCP never intends to introduce anything that affects gameplay. so i'm fine with it. i think they should spend the art time on more productive things, but i'm not going to be all butthurt about vanity MT. the game is still fun. Evidence is in my original post, go to Jita, look at market of NeX shop items and then come back to report your findings! They ignored player wished for a long long time and then came with an expansion few are truely excited about....get it?
Denidil Gallente Rape Pillage and Burn	Posted - 2011.08.27 15:56:00 - [85] Originally by: Inspiration Originally by: Denidil Originally by: Myxx You must be stupid. What inspiration is saying, is that the population that don't like microtransactions is far larger than just a few hundred people that are vocal about it. i know very well what they're trying to say. they have no evidence to support their (your) position. they have a thread they can refer to that shows that there are some people who don't like it. we get that you're paranoid delusionals worried that just because some other **ty F2P games had problems with MT that means all games that have MT must be **ty. which is obviously not true looking at the market. CCP never intends to introduce anything that affects gameplay. so i'm fine with it. i think they should spend the art time on more productive things, but i'm not going to be all butthurt about vanity MT. the game is still fun. Evidence is in my original post, go to Jita, look at market of NeX shop items and then come back to report your findings! They ignored player wished for a long long time and then came with an expansion few are truely excited about....get it? get a dictionary. you need to learn the definition of the word "evidence"
Sergio Ling	Posted - 2011.08.27 16:02:00 - [86] Originally by: Mashie Saldana Originally by: Abrazzar Define: "We" Those that doesn't like the MT/subscription combo I guess. and yet he is no representative of mine _ BET ISK ON ANYTHING AT ALL
Galalissa Noban	Posted - 2011.08.27 16:09:00 - [87] Op , you certainly don't represent me . Lets face it , your talking about the loud vocal MINORITY of players that visit these forums , which in itself is only a percentage of the games playerbase . Makes me laugh , the NeX store is cosmetic at the moment ( i say "at the moment" jsut to shut those idiots up who will come along with " BUT IF IN THE FUTURE " ... ) " and has absolutely no bearing on anything ingame , besides absorbing plex . Even if they started to add Gold plated scorpions ,or faction ammo / ships i still wouldn't care less . More revenue for CCP = good by my book , no matter whether that money is used to develop EvE / Dust or any other title the company creates / owns .
Inspiration	Posted - 2011.08.28 09:47:00 - [88] Originally by: Denidil get a dictionary. you need to learn the definition of the word "evidence" Ah, your one of those people that cannot comprehend even moderately complex systems, let alone things such as an economy with many actors in it. You seem to think that as nothing is 100% certain for you, you can believe whatever you like to believe, despite verifiable facts to the contrary. You are deceiving yourself! Now go read that book of yours yourself. I realize I am talking to an empty shell. Words go in, nonsense goes out as you simply cannot comprehend the system my words describe, thus lack the frame of reference needed to give my words meaning. Oh and BTW, as vocal people go, you certainly are vocal. Do you also represent a minority? Think about it and read back all your earlier posts!
Chopper Rollins Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.28 10:12:00 - [89] Could all of you get on the eve is real site and 'facebook share' (whatever that means) the hell out of it please? It seems the second Aurum unlock is frozen, and i really want to buy a pair of them goggles. Thanks.
xxxTRUSTxxx	Posted - 2011.08.28 10:52:00 - [90] Originally by: Tian Jade I purchased a coat. Cry all you want, a Plex is not that much money for me and I can support CCP in developing the game I love. You may flame now. no flame, i ask that you think about this, the cash you believe you are injecting back into eve will not be spread over all departments, it will be sunk back into the art department, which if you really think about it is not improving the game, nor fixing bugs, nor correcting imbalance, nor inproving null sec, it will lead to the following STARDOLL do you really believe the cash you spent on plex to convert to aur is going to be shared equal, no it won't, it will go back into the department that raised the Revenue in the first place, why you ask, because they will fall into the thinking that the cash cow is born, feed it MORE ! btw nobody is crying, well i'm not, if anyone else is, they need to HTFU, your dolly looks great Tian you can play dress up all you want, but it will never lead to the game improving. unless you call dressing your dolly in new exciting clothes an improvement.
Gorki Andropov Kerensky Initiatives	Posted - 2011.08.28 12:43:00 - [91] Don't presume to speak for me. Your ****ed **-monkey demands are pure nonsense. ----------------------------------------------- "I have not problem with prostitute, but the kiddy dools is to much for me" - Orcan
Ildryn	Posted - 2011.08.28 14:13:00 - [92] Originally by: Sullen Skoung Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 26/08/2011 15:06:01 Originally by: Written Word Lets see, despite being proven all across the industry that it makes a lot of money and has no tangible effect on player retention outside of forum screamers (you in this case).. they should stop it doing it right? You aren't going to quit. You'll whine but you'll go back to playing. an when the Greed is Good thing was leaked noone protested in game right? That was just rumors? Less than 5% of the active accounts were protesting. So it was a fail. The idea of a protest was a fail.
BehindDOORNEXWhore	Posted - 2011.08.28 14:26:00 - [93] Originally by: Ildryn Less than 5% of the active accounts were protesting. So it was a fail. The idea of a protest was a fail. But fail enough for CCP to shat it pants and call an emergency CSM meeting??
T'amber Anomandari Demaleon	Posted - 2011.08.28 15:55:00 - [94] lol Microtransactions? Click here and vote Yes, No or Cosmetic only
Ildryn	Posted - 2011.08.28 18:02:00 - [95] Originally by: BehindDOORNEX*** Originally by:** Ildryn Less than 5% of the active accounts were protesting. So it was a fail. The idea of a protest was a fail. But fail enough for CCP to shat it pants and call an emergency CSM meeting?? If was a fail no matter how you look at it alt noob. They didn't **** themselves. They wanted to talk to the csm for damage control purposes. A few statements were taken way out of context. You do realize there are people from many more countries than yours that play. You notice i am also posting with my main. Not a trolling alt. :)
BehindDOORNEXWhore	Posted - 2011.08.28 20:12:00 - [96] Originally by: Ildryn Originally by: BehindDOORNEX*** Originally by:** Ildryn Less than 5% of the active accounts were protesting. So it was a fail. The idea of a protest was a fail. But fail enough for CCP to shat it pants and call an emergency CSM meeting?? If was a fail no matter how you look at it alt noob. They didn't ** themselves. They wanted to talk to the csm for damage control purposes. A few statements were taken way out of context. You do realize there are people from many more countries than yours that play. You notice i am also posting with my Fanbois main. and most likely a dev alt.** :) FYPFY. I've hi-lighted your sentimental bit :)
Ildryn	Posted - 2011.08.29 00:53:00 - [97] Originally by: BehindDOORNEX*** You notice i am also posting with my Fanbois main. and most likely a dev alt.** :) FYPFY. I've hi-lighted your sentimental bit :) Kinda funny. I live in Iowa. No devs in Iowa. Sorry you fail to see logic. Alt characters = Trolls Pretty poor one at that.
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.08.29 18:28:00 - [98] Originally by: Ildryn Originally by: BehindDOORNEX*** Originally by:** Ildryn Less than 5% of the active accounts were protesting. So it was a fail. The idea of a protest was a fail. But fail enough for CCP to shat it pants and call an emergency CSM meeting?? If was a fail no matter how you look at it alt noob. They didn't ** themselves. They wanted to talk to the csm for damage control purposes.** A few statements were taken way out of context. You do realize there are people from many more countries than yours that play. You notice i am also posting with my main. Not a trolling alt. :) You kind of contradicted yourself there. If damage wasn't being done they wouldn't have needed damage control.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Eternal Evocations	Posted - 2011.08.29 18:30:00 - [99] Originally by: Skex Relbore You kind of contradicted yourself there. If damage wasn't being done they wouldn't have needed damage control. If only the world were this simple.
Ranger 1 Amarr Ranger Corp	Posted - 2011.08.29 21:01:00 - [100] Originally by: Skex Relbore Originally by: Ildryn Originally by: BehindDOORNEX*** Originally by:** Ildryn Less than 5% of the active accounts were protesting. So it was a fail. The idea of a protest was a fail. But fail enough for CCP to shat it pants and call an emergency CSM meeting?? If was a fail no matter how you look at it alt noob. They didn't ** themselves. They wanted to talk to the csm for damage control purposes.** A few statements were taken way out of context. You do realize there are people from many more countries than yours that play. You notice i am also posting with my main. Not a trolling alt. :) You kind of contradicted yourself there. If damage wasn't being done they wouldn't have needed damage control. They needed damage control because they didn't communicate the plan well, not because the plan was bad to begin with. The better communication resulted in much of the wild speculation being shown to be just that. As a result, things calmed down significantly. The plan did not change as a result of the CSM summit, only the level of transparency. Now the only thing still getting a rise out of people are the trolls playing "what if" games, or those making unsubstanciated claims that all the protesters were doing so because they objected to MT being brought in at all (despite thousands of posts from said protesters stating otherwise). ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
das licht Gallente Echtzeit AG	Posted - 2011.08.29 21:05:00 - [101] I don't know!
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.29 21:50:00 - [102] Originally by: Mendolus Originally by: Skex Relbore You kind of contradicted yourself there. If damage wasn't being done they wouldn't have needed damage control. If only the world were this simple. One of my friends went to lawschool. I was like "Watch, Goldman Sachs will get busted hard." That was back a few years ago, it took till last month for the indictments and plea bargains to roll in. So when I called him up on the phone for the obligatory "told you so", he tried to rationalize. I simply replied... "You don't take a plea bargain if you're not guilty." You can ponder the complexity all you want. The CSM was a 'plea bargin' in the first place. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Poetic Stanziel Gallente Macbeth Transport and Freight LLC	Posted - 2011.08.29 22:37:00 - [103] Dear CCP, I would pay 3500 Aurum to increase my skill queue from 24 hours to 1 week. I would pay another 3500 Aurum to increase my skill queue from 1 week to 2 weeks. No more increases beyond that are necessary. Thank you.
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.08.30 14:03:00 - [104] Originally by: Cipher Jones "You don't take a plea bargain if you're not guilty." . While I think we're on the same side of this debate the statement above is not true. Innocent people take plea bargains all the time. Plea bargains are most often offered when the prosecution is less than certain they can make their case. The accused often take them because while the odds of conviction may be low the consequences are huge(up to and including death). I'm not claiming that this is the case in Goldman Sach's case but your statement is one of those bits of conventional wisdom people believe that simply isn't true.
Pablo Amadeus Zekairra Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2011.08.30 14:15:00 - [105] I cant believe this OP seems to think that his mediocre troll is going to speak for me. #1-Nex is a good idea and adds a bit of life to your already static one. (turn off station environment if you dont like it.) #2-no one is forcing you either Nex or EvE is Real. ( so if you dont like it click out.) #3-1000-who the hell said you can speak for an entire community when the only crap here is on your upper lip... now you know why it smells like sh*t every time you speak so please go wipe, rinse and repeat. plz stop falsely representing the EvE community. House of Kahn on the Web-matrix
Ciar Meara Amarr Virtus Vindice	Posted - 2011.08.30 14:16:00 - [106] Originally by: Tian Jade I purchased a coat. Cry all you want, a Plex is not that much money for me and I can support CCP in developing the game I love. You may flame now. Your not interesting, neither is the fact that you bought a coat. The coat doesn't bring me better gameplay, can't be blown up and I can't see it. Nobody cares about your coat. - Hilmar getur ekki tala= vi= ¦ig n·na, hann er a= fara f japanska tfskuverslun.
Thornat	Posted - 2011.08.30 14:18:00 - [107] Originally by: Skex Relbore Originally by: Cipher Jones "You don't take a plea bargain if you're not guilty." . While I think we're on the same side of this debate the statement above is not true. Innocent people take plea bargains all the time. Plea bargains are most often offered when the prosecution is less than certain they can make their case. The accused often take them because while the odds of conviction may be low the consequences are huge(up to and including death). I'm not claiming that this is the case in Goldman Sach's case but your statement is one of those bits of conventional wisdom people believe that simply isn't true. There is some truth to that but actually in law most plea bargains are the result of neither party having a firm case, yet both parties wanting to come out of it winners. You get nailed for a DUI, but the officer skipped a few steps in the process. The case can go either way so a plea bargain is offered, maybe lower it to a wreckless driving. To the offender its a get out of jail free card, to the processing attorny its a conviction. But lets be frank now. CCP is not accussed of a crime, Eve Online is not a courtroom and the players are not the judge and jury. Basically what happened was that CCP did something that "enough" of the community responded to, both verbaly on the forums, via in game protests and through the cancellation of accounts to get their attention. The CSM's themselves admitted on Eve radio that an emergency session was unthinkable and only in a serious situation would such a thing take place. Also its worth mentioning that a vocal minority is always far more powerful and has far more clout than a quiet majority. In essence if you don't speak out, you don't count. CCP reacted because they know that a small vocal minority can take a successful game and attract enough bad press to hurt their bottom line. So ya maybe it was only 5% of the players that protested, but thats more than sufficient to create enough bad press and momentum to have disasterous effects on the game and the bottom line of CCP. They reckognized that fact and acted to try to deal with the problem head on.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.30 14:32:00 - [108] Originally by: Ciar Meara Originally by: Tian Jade I purchased a coat. Cry all you want, a Plex is not that much money for me and I can support CCP in developing the game I love. You may flame now. Your not interesting, neither is the fact that you bought a coat. The coat doesn't bring me better gameplay, can't be blown up and I can't see it. Nobody cares about your coat. It will eventually bring you better gameplay, and takes nothing from you gameplay now. That shortsightedness is quite common these days. Of course it can be argued that WOD and Dust will fail and that will ruin EvE, but that's highly unlikely. Weather anybody but the buyer of a NEX item cares about it is highly irrelevant. They care enough to buy it. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Myxx Atropos Group	Posted - 2011.08.30 14:33:00 - [109] Originally by: Thornat Originally by: Skex Relbore Originally by: Cipher Jones "You don't take a plea bargain if you're not guilty." . While I think we're on the same side of this debate the statement above is not true. Innocent people take plea bargains all the time. Plea bargains are most often offered when the prosecution is less than certain they can make their case. The accused often take them because while the odds of conviction may be low the consequences are huge(up to and including death). I'm not claiming that this is the case in Goldman Sach's case but your statement is one of those bits of conventional wisdom people believe that simply isn't true. There is some truth to that but actually in law most plea bargains are the result of neither party having a firm case, yet both parties wanting to come out of it winners. You get nailed for a DUI, but the officer skipped a few steps in the process. The case can go either way so a plea bargain is offered, maybe lower it to a wreckless driving. To the offender its a get out of jail free card, to the processing attorny its a conviction. But lets be frank now. CCP is not accussed of a crime, Eve Online is not a courtroom and the players are not the judge and jury. Basically what happened was that CCP did something that "enough" of the community responded to, both verbaly on the forums, via in game protests and through the cancellation of accounts to get their attention. The CSM's themselves admitted on Eve radio that an emergency session was unthinkable and only in a serious situation would such a thing take place. Also its worth mentioning that a vocal minority is always far more powerful and has far more clout than a quiet majority. In essence if you don't speak out, you don't count. CCP reacted because they know that a small vocal minority can take a successful game and attract enough bad press to hurt their bottom line. So ya maybe it was only 5% of the players that protested, but thats more than sufficient to create enough bad press and momentum to have disasterous effects on the game and the bottom line of CCP. They reckognized that fact and acted to try to deal with the problem head on. If they loose even 5 percent of the playerbase, it can be bad enough to spiral out of control and actually hurt EVE. That five percent can quickly turn into ten percent, that ten percent can turn into twenty... so on and so fourth. And I'm sure that theres more than five percent that are unhappy about microtransactions. -- Originally by: CCP Explorer (and if you guys would also stop using Drakes it would be really appreciated, kthxbye). Originally by: Tom Gerard Then again... I am a moron.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.30 14:37:00 - [110] Quote: If they loose even 5 percent of the playerbase, it can be bad enough to spiral out of control and actually hurt EVE. That five percent can quickly turn into ten percent, that ten percent can turn into twenty... so on and so fourth. And I'm sure that theres more than five percent that are unhappy about microtransactions. -- So if I have five dollars in my wallet I can buy a 15 dollar item once it spirals out of control. I am sure a lot more than 50% of the players are unhappy about mt as almost 100% of people oppose change. The question is will enough people stay too keep the franchise running and healthy, and right now the answer is yes. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Ranger 1 Amarr Ranger Corp	Posted - 2011.08.30 14:38:00 - [111] Originally by: Cipher Jones Originally by: Ciar Meara Originally by: Tian Jade I purchased a coat. Cry all you want, a Plex is not that much money for me and I can support CCP in developing the game I love. You may flame now. Your not interesting, neither is the fact that you bought a coat. The coat doesn't bring me better gameplay, can't be blown up and I can't see it. Nobody cares about your coat. It will eventually bring you better gameplay, and takes nothing from you gameplay now. That shortsightedness is quite common these days. Of course it can be argued that WOD and Dust will fail and that will ruin EvE, but that's highly unlikely. Weather anybody but the buyer of a NEX item cares about it is highly irrelevant. They care enough to buy it. On this point we are in total agreement. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.08.30 14:43:00 - [112] Originally by: Ranger 1 They needed damage control because they didn't communicate the plan well, not because the plan was bad to begin with. The better communication resulted in much of the wild speculation being shown to be just that. As a result, things calmed down significantly. The plan did not change as a result of the CSM summit, only the level of transparency. Now the only thing still getting a rise out of people are the trolls playing "what if" games, or those making unsubstanciated claims that all the protesters were doing so because they objected to MT being brought in at all (despite thousands of posts from said protesters stating otherwise). They needed damage control because of the leaked documentation. First we had the PR debacle of the monetization debate. Which was then followed with the leaking of the Fearless Magazine (anyone who believes that was just "internal discussion" send me isk and I'll send you back double what you sent me) which despite all the protestation about it just being internal discussion read more like a propaganda campaign. Everyone acts like the only thing in it was the pro-con between Soundwave and Turbefield, which is bull** they had multiple articles about how to monetize their product via micro-transactions and it wasn't written in a should we do this rather it was in a this is how we do it mode. Remember the only voice of dissent in this "debate" was half of one article out of several. Of course they aren't going to admit that they really want to sell in game advantage publicly they by soundwaves own admission know they'd be crucified by the playerbase. Anyone who believes this bull** about how objection to MT is a minority opinion need to let that percolate for a minute. CCP doesn't believe that to be a minority opinion or else they would have done as Hilmar said and stayed the course. Now it is entirely true that much of what people are bringing up is based on conjecture but it's conjecture based on some pretty sound reasoning and evidence. If you think CCP claim that they have no intention of selling "gold ammo" has any weight what so ever need to go back and read the debates from 2010 when they claimed they had no plans for implementing Micro-transactions. Anyone who's ever worked for a corporation should understand that there is no way they weren't planning the Nex by that point they had to have been or they'd never have been able to launch it for Incarna. Credibility is an interesting thing. Hard to gain easy to lose and next to impossible to regain once lost.
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.08.30 15:07:00 - [113] Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 30/08/2011 15:10:23 the MT store isnt ONLY what Im referring to in my sig. Its the "sweeping changes" of removing high sec as a viable place to make money as well. 80% of the player base chooses to be in high sec but because theyre not playing the game how THEY want, theyd rather take their toys an go home, and destroy the area a vast majority of the players would rather be in that the broken sov mechanics in 0.0. BUT rather than FIXING 0.0, they want to vastly devalue high sec. Because they know whats best for the game amirite? Originally by: Cipher Jones The CSM was a 'plea bargin' in the first place. The CSM was a knee jerk reaction to a scandal they didnt know how to control (T20). Their original, stupid, impossible, reason for being formed was to go to Iceland to watchdog CCP to keep them from cheating again -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too. This is your NGE/CU moment CCP.
Myxx Atropos Group	Posted - 2011.08.30 15:58:00 - [114] Originally by: Cipher Jones Quote: If they loose even 5 percent of the playerbase, it can be bad enough to spiral out of control and actually hurt EVE. That five percent can quickly turn into ten percent, that ten percent can turn into twenty... so on and so fourth. And I'm sure that theres more than five percent that are unhappy about microtransactions. -- So if I have five dollars in my wallet I can buy a 15 dollar item once it spirals out of control. This is a non-argument because that isn't how social interaction works. This game is built on a social network, word of mouth style of community. If people leave, more people will be inclined to leave when they see their friends stop logging in. That is how it can quickly turn into very bad news. -- Originally by: CCP Explorer (and if you guys would also stop using Drakes it would be really appreciated, kthxbye). Originally by: Tom Gerard Then again... I am a moron.
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.08.30 16:09:00 - [115] Originally by: Cipher Jones Quote: If they loose even 5 percent of the playerbase, it can be bad enough to spiral out of control and actually hurt EVE. That five percent can quickly turn into ten percent, that ten percent can turn into twenty... so on and so fourth. And I'm sure that theres more than five percent that are unhappy about microtransactions. -- So if I have five dollars in my wallet I can buy a 15 dollar item once it spirals out of control. I am sure a lot more than 50% of the players are unhappy about mt as almost 100% of people oppose change. The question is will enough people stay too keep the franchise running and healthy, and right now the answer is yes. Actually I think the answer was no; which is why we had the emergency summit. I think CCP wanted to test the waters and see if they could ease MT in. This is why we had the "stay the course" email say that they should only pay attention to "what they do". They tested those waters and found out they were full of **ed off piranhas, hopefully that will be enough of a lessen to hold the bean counters off for another year. The biggest problem they have now is that they blew away their credibility in the process so no one really believes them when they say "we have no plans for any non-vanity items for Aurum". The thing is yeah we're talking about things they haven't done yet. But you have to object before they do it if we wait until after they actually do P2W it will be too late to influence the situation. Micro-transactions made it in because after the commitment in May 2010 that there were no plans for MT people took them at their word and didn't pay attention to the issue. Hell CSM in May 2011 just kind of ho hummed the NEX store when it was announced to them when they should have been raising holy hell going "WTF?!?! you guys said you weren't planning anything like this just a year ago, Do you have any idea the kind of storm this is going to stir up?" Hilmar needs a "no man" around to counter all the "yes man" sentiment someone to say "are you out of your **ing mind? that's the dumbest idea I've ever heard" when some bonehead comes up with something like the Nex store.
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.08.30 16:14:00 - [116] Originally by: Skex Relbore Hell CSM in May 2011 just kind of ho hummed the NEX store when it was announced to them when they should have been raising holy hell going "WTF?!?! you guys said you weren't planning anything like this just a year ago, Do you have any idea the kind of **** storm this is going to stir up?" When they do that, they get NDAed and told that if they talk about it theyll get sued. -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too. This is your NGE/CU moment CCP.
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.08.30 16:29:00 - [117] Originally by: Sullen Skoung Originally by: Skex Relbore Hell CSM in May 2011 just kind of ho hummed the NEX store when it was announced to them when they should have been raising holy hell going "WTF?!?! you guys said you weren't planning anything like this just a year ago, Do you have any idea the kind of **** storm this is going to stir up?" When they do that, they get NDAed and told that if they talk about it theyll get sued. The NDA only prevents them from reporting information to the public before it's been cleared it does not prevent them from telling CCP that something is a bad idea.
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.08.30 16:38:00 - [118] Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 30/08/2011 16:39:39 Originally by: Skex Relbore Originally by: Sullen Skoung Originally by: Skex Relbore Hell CSM in May 2011 just kind of ho hummed the NEX store when it was announced to them when they should have been raising holy hell going "WTF?!?! you guys said you weren't planning anything like this just a year ago, Do you have any idea the kind of **** storm this is going to stir up?" When they do that, they get NDAed and told that if they talk about it theyll get sued. The NDA only prevents them from reporting information to the public before it's been cleared it does not prevent them from telling CCP that something is a bad idea. lol youre under the impression they didnt (and if you link minutes to me, think of how heavily THESE are being edited and remember how hard it is to hit the delete/backspace button on a keyboard) better yet youre under the impression of what they say to CCP MATTERS TO CCP how cute -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too. This is your NGE/CU moment CCP.
Bootleg Jack Potters Field	Posted - 2011.08.30 16:44:00 - [119] I like MT and the CQ, I have 4 accounts, +4 for MT, can't wait for the station door to open.
Ranger 1 Amarr Ranger Corp	Posted - 2011.08.30 16:48:00 - [120] Quote: Anyone who believes this bull**** about how objection to MT is a minority opinion need to let that percolate for a minute. CCP doesn't believe that to be a minority opinion or else they would have done as Hilmar said and stayed the course. Perhaps you could tell us where CCP changed their course. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.08.30 16:49:00 - [121] Originally by: Bootleg Jack I like MT and the CQ, I have 4 accounts, +4 for MT, can't wait for the station door to open. this is why WE fail. -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too. This is your NGE/CU moment CCP.
Jones Bones Burning Napalm	Posted - 2011.08.30 16:50:00 - [122] I'm Jones Bones and I approve of NEX and MT. Vous mad?
Vana Dell Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2011.08.30 17:00:00 - [123] I realize I'm an EvE newbie here, but I fail to see how the plex store or aurum is an issue here. Don't like it? Don't use it. It doesn't get any simpler than that. My personal beef with it? It provides proof of what I knew since 2006. Player driven economies fail.
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.08.30 17:04:00 - [124] Originally by: Vana Dell I realize I'm an EvE newbie here, but I fail to see how the plex store or aurum is an issue here. Don't like it? Don't use it. It doesn't get any simpler than that. My personal beef with it? It provides proof of what I knew since 2006. Player driven economies fail. do believe the issue is pay to win. -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too. This is your NGE/CU moment CCP.
Ranger 1 Amarr Ranger Corp	Posted - 2011.08.30 17:08:00 - [125] Originally by: Sullen Skoung Originally by: Vana Dell I realize I'm an EvE newbie here, but I fail to see how the plex store or aurum is an issue here. Don't like it? Don't use it. It doesn't get any simpler than that. My personal beef with it? It provides proof of what I knew since 2006. Player driven economies fail. do believe the issue is pay to win. How are clothing items pay to win? How are paint jobs on ships pay to win? How are items resold on the open market for ISK pay to win? If you are referring to items that offer in game advantages, that cannot be resold for ISK, we have no evidence of this... merely baseless speculation. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
Vana Dell Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2011.08.30 17:14:00 - [126] Originally by: Sullen Skoung Originally by: Vana Dell I realize I'm an EvE newbie here, but I fail to see how the plex store or aurum is an issue here. Don't like it? Don't use it. It doesn't get any simpler than that. My personal beef with it? It provides proof of what I knew since 2006. Player driven economies fail. do believe the issue is pay to win. How is getting an ugly little monocle that would look right at home in Morrowind that provides absolutely no stats beyond making the person wearing it look stupid 'paying to win'?
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.08.30 17:16:00 - [127] Originally by: Vana Dell Originally by: Sullen Skoung Originally by: Vana Dell I realize I'm an EvE newbie here, but I fail to see how the plex store or aurum is an issue here. Don't like it? Don't use it. It doesn't get any simpler than that. My personal beef with it? It provides proof of what I knew since 2006. Player driven economies fail. do believe the issue is pay to win. How is getting an ugly little monocle that would look right at home in Morrowind that provides absolutely no stats beyond making the person wearing it look stupid 'paying to win'? You never saw the original memo that ****ed everyone off huh? Where they were talkin about selling ships an gold ammo an T3 stuff in there? -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too. This is your NGE/CU moment CCP.
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.08.30 17:22:00 - [128] Originally by: Ranger 1 Quote: Anyone who believes this bull**** about how objection to MT is a minority opinion need to let that percolate for a minute. CCP doesn't believe that to be a minority opinion or else they would have done as Hilmar said and stayed the course. Perhaps you could tell us where CCP changed their course. The Emergency CSM summit. Obviously they weren't planning on that they expected after a short bit of grumbling we'd settle down and they could move on to the next step. I admit what we got out of them fell far short of what was wanted but no one who was reasonable expected the Nex store to be tore down after development dollars have already been spent. Beyond that your are right we don't know what happened internally with CCP's plans. The hope is that enough hell was raised to derail any thoughts of P2W for the foreseeable future but only time will tell. Maybe they were telling the truth and they never intended to sell game-play affecting items and services (yeah right) maybe they were ready to roll out a whole host of additional services. The fact that they implemented the NEX in the first place is pretty damning evidence against them. Particularly given the pricing strategy they seem to have settled on (The M in MT is supposed to stand for Micro no Macro). No way enough idiots are buying enough horribly designed vanity items to pay off the development time they put into it. While I think they are arrogant and suffering from extreme confirmation bias fueled by visions of giant piles of greenbacks, I don't think they are completely stupid so the question becomes where do they really expect this to pay off? Remember they have to sell 12 plex worth of items to make up for the revenue lost from each canceled account per year.
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.08.30 17:25:00 - [129] Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 30/08/2011 17:26:15 Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 30/08/2011 17:25:45 Originally by: Skex Relbore No way enough idiots are buying enough horribly designed vanity items to pay off the development time they put into it. 52 monocles in the first 40 hours Quote: Naturally, we have caught the attention of the world. Only a few weeks ago we revealed more information about DUST 514 and now we have done it again by committing to our core purpose as a company by redefining assumptions. After 40 hours we have already sold 52 monocles, generating more revenue than any of the other items in the store. -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too. This is your NGE/CU moment CCP.
Bootleg Jack Potters Field	Posted - 2011.08.30 17:30:00 - [130] Originally by: Sullen Skoung Originally by: Vana Dell I realize I'm an EvE newbie here, but I fail to see how the plex store or aurum is an issue here. Don't like it? Don't use it. It doesn't get any simpler than that. My personal beef with it? It provides proof of what I knew since 2006. Player driven economies fail. do believe the issue is pay to win. And what does that have to do with NEX or CQ? Pay to win has been in the game ever since PLEX, where have you been?
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Eternal Evocations	Posted - 2011.08.30 17:47:00 - [131] Originally by: Bootleg Jack Originally by: Sullen Skoung Originally by: Vana Dell I realize I'm an EvE newbie here, but I fail to see how the plex store or aurum is an issue here. Don't like it? Don't use it. It doesn't get any simpler than that. My personal beef with it? It provides proof of what I knew since 2006. Player driven economies fail. do believe the issue is pay to win. And what does that have to do with NEX or CQ? Pay to win has been in the game ever since PLEX, where have you been? They've been hiding under a rock trying in vain to convince themselves that people who are affluent in real life cannot buy a supercap pilot, sell PLEX, and then buy their very own supercap, all in a day or two. That certainly doesn't happen in my EVE!
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.08.30 17:49:00 - [132] Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 30/08/2011 17:49:31 Originally by: Bootleg Jack Originally by: Sullen Skoung Originally by: Vana Dell I realize I'm an EvE newbie here, but I fail to see how the plex store or aurum is an issue here. Don't like it? Don't use it. It doesn't get any simpler than that. My personal beef with it? It provides proof of what I knew since 2006. Player driven economies fail. do believe the issue is pay to win. And what does that have to do with NEX or CQ? Quote: You never saw the original memo that ****ed everyone off huh? Where they were talkin about selling ships an gold ammo an T3 stuff in there? And them saying "Oh dear we've upset you, we PROMISE we'll NEVER do that..." somehow soothes the masses. You deliberately skipped a post. Cool! I have a thread stalker. This guy is like following me everywhere I post now -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too. This is your NGE/CU moment CCP.
Vana Dell Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2011.08.30 17:53:00 - [133] Originally by: Sullen Skoung Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 30/08/2011 17:17:49 Originally by: Vana Dell Originally by: Sullen Skoung Originally by: Vana Dell I realize I'm an EvE newbie here, but I fail to see how the plex store or aurum is an issue here. Don't like it? Don't use it. It doesn't get any simpler than that. My personal beef with it? It provides proof of what I knew since 2006. Player driven economies fail. do believe the issue is pay to win. How is getting an ugly little monocle that would look right at home in Morrowind that provides absolutely no stats beyond making the person wearing it look stupid 'paying to win'? Originally by: Ranger 1 How are clothing items pay to win? How are paint jobs on ships pay to win? How are items resold on the open market for ISK pay to win? If you are referring to items that offer in game advantages, that cannot be resold for ISK, we have no evidence of this... merely baseless speculation. You never saw the original memo that ****ed everyone off huh? Where they were talkin about selling ships an gold ammo an T3 stuff in there? And them saying "Oh dear we've upset you, we PROMISE we'll NEVER do that..." somehow soothes the masses. I'd feel better about purchasing something like that that possesses an actual use over something that clearly just pure aesthetics with my real life money. And I don't know why people were upset about it for. Even had CCP released it that way people would still have to have to have proper skills to even use them.
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.08.30 17:54:00 - [134] Originally by: Sullen Skoung Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 30/08/2011 17:27:24 Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 30/08/2011 17:26:15 Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 30/08/2011 17:25:45 Originally by: Skex Relbore No way enough idiots are buying enough horribly designed vanity items to pay off the development time they put into it. 52 monocles in the first 40 hours Quote: Naturally, we have caught the attention of the world. Only a few weeks ago we revealed more information about DUST 514 and now we have done it again by committing to our core purpose as a company by redefining assumptions. After 40 hours we have already sold 52 monocles, generating more revenue than any of the other items in the store. They might not be YET but they WILL BE Lets see so there most successful item only generated sufficient revenue to replace the yearly revenues from 15 canceled accounts. This was in the earliest days when demand for the item would be highest. Yeah that's really successful, lol. BTW just for some context that's a whoppy $2910 in plex that just about covers the cost of flying 3 CMS from the US to Iceland with advanced notice; probably barely covered the cost of flying Mittens out for the emergency summit.
CARB0N FIBER	Posted - 2011.08.30 17:55:00 - [135] Edited by: CARB0N FIBER on 30/08/2011 17:56:30 Closing thread. If you would like to discuss CCP actions further you are welcome to contact us via a petition but please do not discuss on the forums.
Ranger 1 Amarr Ranger Corp	Posted - 2011.08.30 17:58:00 - [136] Originally by: Skex Relbore Originally by: Ranger 1 Quote: Anyone who believes this bull**** about how objection to MT is a minority opinion need to let that percolate for a minute. CCP doesn't believe that to be a minority opinion or else they would have done as Hilmar said and stayed the course. Perhaps you could tell us where CCP changed their course. The Emergency CSM summit. Obviously they weren't planning on that they expected after a short bit of grumbling we'd settle down and they could move on to the next step. I admit what we got out of them fell far short of what was wanted but no one who was reasonable expected the Nex store to be tore down after development dollars have already been spent. Beyond that your are right we don't know what happened internally with CCP's plans. The hope is that enough hell was raised to derail any thoughts of P2W for the foreseeable future but only time will tell. Maybe they were telling the truth and they never intended to sell game-play affecting items and services (yeah right) maybe they were ready to roll out a whole host of additional services. The fact that they implemented the NEX in the first place is pretty damning evidence against them. Particularly given the pricing strategy they seem to have settled on (The M in MT is supposed to stand for Micro no Macro). No way enough idiots are buying enough horribly designed vanity items to pay off the development time they put into it. While I think they are arrogant and suffering from extreme confirmation bias fueled by visions of giant piles of greenbacks, I don't think they are completely stupid so the question becomes where do they really expect this to pay off? Remember they have to sell 12 plex worth of items to make up for the revenue lost from each canceled account per year. I really don't think that calling a meeting to clarify what their "course" is qualifies as "no longer staying the course". I also think you are making a lot of assumption. Starting with your assumptions that the NeX store items aren't selling well. We have zero data on that. It's also a pretty safe bet that the NeX store item sales will increase dramatically once other people can see your Avatar. @Sullen: Of course I saw the memo, and the news letter. More importantly, I understood them. You need to learn the difference between a discussion of a controversial subject and a plan of action. You also need to learn the difference between a remote possibility and a probable outcome. Only politicians and journalists are allowed to make a habit out of taking anything they like out of context and spinning a theoretical discussion to sound like certifiable fact. Everyone else is simply called a liar or a fool. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.08.30 18:32:00 - [137] Edited by: Skex Relbore on 30/08/2011 18:36:12 Originally by: Ranger 1 I really don't think that calling a meeting to clarify what their "course" is qualifies as "no longer staying the course". Um considering part of the course obviously did not include taking efforts to affect such clarification then yes I'd say it most certainly does qualify as "no longer staying the course". Quote: I also think you are making a lot of assumption. Starting with your assumptions that the NeX store items aren't selling well. We have zero data on that. It's also a pretty safe bet that the NeX store item sales will increase dramatically once other people can see your Avatar. I'm not making any assumption I'm stating a simple economic fact on how many Plex have to be converted for aurum to make up for a lost subscriber, I"m also giving my opinion that, I don't think what they are selling; at the prices they are selling it for; will be sufficient to cover the development costs associated with the project. As such it is my belief that there are and have always been plans to move beyond "vanity" items. Particularly in the form of services as described by CCP Soundwave in the Fearless Mag. Quote: @Sullen: Of course I saw the memo, and the news letter. More importantly, I understood them. You need to learn the difference between a discussion of a controversial subject and a plan of action. You also need to learn the difference between a remote possibility and a probable outcome. I'd suggest that your position in this debate is evidence that no you did not understand them and you quite frankly do not understand the difference between discussion and a plan of action. Fearless was not a discussion if it was a PR piece to sell the MT concept to the rank and file and get their buy in and get them thinking about how else to monetize the game. Anyone who's actually worked in the corporate world is familiar with such pieces. Note how all the articles talking up the concept of Micro-transactions were written by department heads and various leaders in the organization while the one bit opposed was from some grunt in the research department. That's not a discussion that's propaganda. Quote: Only politicians and journalists are allowed to make a habit out of taking anything they like out of context and spinning a theoretical discussion to sound like certifiable fact. Everyone else is simply called a liar or a fool. Why would Politicians and Journalists get a pass? We know most of them are already liars and/or fools or at least paid to be such. No one is taking anything out of context, the argument is about what the context actually is. If someone accepts the argument that the Fearless magazine which was 90% in favor of Micro-transactions and discussed specific plans and idea's on implementation (some of which we know are actual plans) with all the Pro's coming from people in leadership positions at the company, is just so much internal discussion they'll think people like myself are fools. For those of us who don't believe for a moment that the Fearless magazine was anything other than company propaganda to gain support for what they knew would be an unpopular idea we think you are being pretty damned Naive.
Ranger 1 Amarr Ranger Corp	Posted - 2011.08.30 19:33:00 - [138] Originally by: Skex Relbore Edited by: Skex Relbore on 30/08/2011 18:36:12 Originally by: Ranger 1 I really don't think that calling a meeting to clarify what their "course" is qualifies as "no longer staying the course". Um considering part of the course obviously did not include taking efforts to affect such clarification then yes I'd say it most certainly does qualify as "no longer staying the course". Quote: I also think you are making a lot of assumption. Starting with your assumptions that the NeX store items aren't selling well. We have zero data on that. It's also a pretty safe bet that the NeX store item sales will increase dramatically once other people can see your Avatar. I'm not making any assumption I'm stating a simple economic fact on how many Plex have to be converted for aurum to make up for a lost subscriber, I"m also giving my opinion that, I don't think what they are selling; at the prices they are selling it for; will be sufficient to cover the development costs associated with the project. As such it is my belief that there are and have always been plans to move beyond "vanity" items. Particularly in the form of services as described by CCP Soundwave in the Fearless Mag. Quote: @Sullen: Of course I saw the memo, and the news letter. More importantly, I understood them. You need to learn the difference between a discussion of a controversial subject and a plan of action. You also need to learn the difference between a remote possibility and a probable outcome. I'd suggest that your position in this debate is evidence that no you did not understand them and you quite frankly do not understand the difference between discussion and a plan of action. Fearless was not a discussion if it was a PR piece to sell the MT concept to the rank and file and get their buy in and get them thinking about how else to monetize the game. Anyone who's actually worked in the corporate world is familiar with such pieces. Note how all the articles talking up the concept of Micro-transactions were written by department heads and various leaders in the organization while the one bit opposed was from some grunt in the research department. That's not a discussion that's propaganda. Quote: Only politicians and journalists are allowed to make a habit out of taking anything they like out of context and spinning a theoretical discussion to sound like certifiable fact. Everyone else is simply called a liar or a fool. Why would Politicians and Journalists get a pass? We know most of them are already liars and/or fools or at least paid to be such. No one is taking anything out of context, the argument is about what the context actually is. If someone accepts the argument that the Fearless magazine which was 90% in favor of Micro-transactions and discussed specific plans and idea's on implementation (some of which we know are actual plans) with all the Pro's coming from people in leadership positions at the company, is just so much internal discussion they'll think people like myself are fools. For those of us who don't believe for a moment that the Fearless magazine was anything other than company propaganda to gain support for what they knew would be an unpopular idea we think you are being pretty damned Naive. I'm quite familiar with the corporate environment, from both the "grunt in the trenches" and from the upper management point of view, but thanks for your input. Again, you've done an excellent job of presenting your opinions on what you think the situation is. You have yet to back that postion up with any facts. The facts we have now are: 1: A meeting was called to clarify their current and future course of action. 2: That meeting did not facilitate a change in that course of action. 3: We have vanity only MT in game, with no announced plans to change it to non-vanity items. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
Ivana Twinkle GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.08.30 19:36:00 - [139] Gold ammo would give me another edge over all you poor people.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Eternal Evocations	Posted - 2011.08.30 19:38:00 - [140] Edited by: Mendolus on 30/08/2011 19:43:36 I would like to add to Ranger's point just to make sure no one forgets this, but CCP originally stated their intention to release the Ishukone Watch Scorpion prior to having an item exchange mechanic in place for the NEX store, and that they would keep a close watch on the resulting sales to ensure that the player driven market was not negatively impacted. After the leaked memo, and initial uproar that went from rational debate into blind rage and mob mentality, CCP quietly swept this plan under the rug and I believe... though I am disappointed to say I do not have the thread, that I remember reading a developer who posted that they scrapped the scorpion plans because they decided they did not even want to run the risk of negatively impacting the player driven economy with what would even temporarily be a non-vanity item. So... if they were really planning to do non-vanity, why would they be pensive about even temporarily releasing the Ishukone Scorpion with no item exchange in place? Now, a reasonable person would start connecting the dots to see that CCP IS planning an item exchange, which means that the likelihood of there being gold ammo is considerably low, since the NEX will basically operate under the same principles as the LP stores, with the exception of the non-vanity items. In before the conspiracy theorists... everyone is always out to get them, because they are just that important.
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.08.30 20:26:00 - [141] Originally by: Ranger 1 The facts we have now are: 1: A meeting was called technically till we get the minutes, we dont know what was said. You can SPECULATE what it was about but no "hard evidence" of what it was about have I seen yet -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too. This is your NGE/CU moment CCP.
Alex Sinai Mining And Probing Specialists	Posted - 2011.08.30 21:24:00 - [142] Nobody here get the feeling of something just not right? We suddenly have many "reasonable" pro-MT P2W people on these forums. With strange arguments that can work on youth players but laughable for grown up players. Connect that with CCP hire of PR firm and all what was going on last few month. Include these CSM minutes release delays excuses. Think about CSM candidates resignations for "unrelated reasons". Reflect on Ishukone Scorpion Battleship affair. You have good enough picture to see where all this train going and what's the destination.
Aldan Romar Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2011.08.31 05:16:00 - [143] Alex, please. Paranoia is a dangerous thing. Apparently CCP doesn't even listen to the voices on the Forums, I doubt they have enough interest to invest ressources to influence them. Some people may voice their concerns on here, some are fed up with that and taking an extreme stance to set a counterpoint. Some are screwing with each other's heads. 'Style over substance
Empy Ralt	Posted - 2011.08.31 07:02:00 - [144] Pay to win is one thing that a lot will find unpalatable. CCP treating their customers like suckers or cash-cows is another. CCP wasting developer time on Nex/CQ is another. If it was a side-feature of new space-ship content no one would really care. But an "Eve" expansion which is all about a cash-shop is pretty lame.
Taharqua10	Posted - 2011.08.31 10:21:00 - [145] You might not personally want them but alas other people do & CCP see this as a revenue stream to tap: OH dear!
Stitcher Caldari	Posted - 2011.08.31 11:52:00 - [146] I tell you this now: if there were hats in the store, and especially this hat, I'd be all over that stuff. - - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain.
CoRp0	Posted - 2011.08.31 12:36:00 - [147] Let's just hope there will never be SP store
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.08.31 20:30:00 - [148] Originally by: Mendolus So... if they were really planning to do non-vanity, why would they be pensive about even temporarily releasing the Ishukone Scorpion with no item exchange in place? My understanding was that the Ishukone Scorp was pulled when the CSM pointed out the uproar it would cause. As far as why they'd be so pensive about it, well it might have something to do with the fact that they recognized as CCP Soundwave noted in "Fearless" that they'd be crucified by the player base. If their primary concern had been avoiding the stench of P2W they'd never have even thought of offering the Ishukone Scorpion before an exchange was possible (And really is it that much more technically complex to deposit a 1 run BPC that requires a scorpion as a component into someone's hanger than it is to deposit a completed Ishukone Scorpion?, The ability for the NEX to require an item exchange is entirely unneeded to provide custom models to existing ships and the assertion that it was relevant to the release of the Ishukone Scorpion a red herring to distract people with poor critical thinking skills. The thing is there really isn't much conspiracy theory to seeing where this road ends, it's simply a matter of following each step to it's logical conclusion. Now that the NEX store is there with it's money making potential sitting there singing it's siren song to the bean-counters there will be a constant pressure to milk it for more revenue. We already know from EA's experience that Vanity items just aren't enough to really drive profits it's pay for in game advantage or gold ammo as it were that is the big money maker and you can be damned sure that every executive and finance person at CCP has seen that power point from EA. Sure the devs will be "reluctant" to do it but since the NEX team is generating additional revenue they'll be the ones getting the funding and being bumped to the top of the priority queue (the May CSM minutes stated quite clearly that the art department is the primary bottleneck holding up game content, so which department do you think is designing the "vanity" items for the NEC?). They'll couch it in language of "in order to be competitive" as if you gouging your customer is the best way to drive sales. and we're just following industry trends blah blah and more PR crap. The bottom line is that if the NEX generates good revenues the execs and bean counters will push to get it to produce more revenues. If it fails to produce revenues they'll push to make it generate more revenue. Leaving us players in a damned if you do damned if you don't situation of losing a hobby that many of us have invested years of our life in enjoying. To make matters worse since this is the direction the industry is going (whether the players like it or not) there won't be any good gameplay focused games left. All that will remain will be a Micro-transaction driven ad-space and the promise of a cold harsh virtual universe will be yet one more dream destroyed by short sighted MBA's who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing. The only hope and it's a slim one at that is that we can raise enough hell to derail this train before it gets too far out of the station by getting someone in a position of power to put the long term health of the game ahead of short term greed.
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.08.31 20:40:00 - [149] Originally by: Skex Relbore We already know from EA's experience that Vanity items just aren't enough to really drive profits it's pay for in game advantage or gold ammo as it were that is the big money maker and you can be damned sure that every executive and finance person at CCP has seen that power point from EA. Or STO if you were there to watch that disaster. They crowed the "Vanity items only" on their forums too. The SECOND the game launched they put races that have ingame effects you cant get in game in there. NON VANITY Then ships with abilities the other in game ships cant get NON VANITY Then sp boosters that made you level faster NON VANITY hell they even made respecs cost REAL MONEY Dont believe me? Look for youeself -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation	Posted - 2011.08.31 20:51:00 - [150] Well, if it happens, we are all as good as gone aren't we? And it looks like from the previous track record with MMOs, that all the bemoaning in the world did not prevent the introduction of non-vanity items to a game, so... Let me remind you guys, I am here personally to spend time with friends, and ride this game until the wheels fall off, or until non-vanity items are introduced. Until that very day, I would prefer to just logon and have some fun, because unless someone can provide me with factual evidence of any time in an MMO where the subscriber base successfully averted the introduction of non-vanity items through their dialog with the developers, all of this is really just an exercise in futility. If it is going to happen, it is going to happen, the only thing we can do is unsubscribe from the game when it does. __________________________________________________ ...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the apocalypse, i.e. The Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie.
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.08.31 20:58:00 - [151] Originally by: Mendolus Well, if it happens, we are all as good as gone aren't we? And it looks like from the previous track record with MMOs, that all the bemoaning in the world did not prevent the introduction of non-vanity items to a game, so... Let me remind you guys, I am here personally to spend time with friends, and ride this game until the wheels fall off, or until non-vanity items are introduced. Until that very day, I would prefer to just logon and have some fun, because unless someone can provide me with factual evidence of any time in an MMO where the subscriber base successfully averted the introduction of non-vanity items through their dialog with the developers, all of this is really just an exercise in futility. If it is going to happen, it is going to happen, the only thing we can do is unsubscribe from the game when it does. Obviously it's an exercise in futility doesn't mean we can't put it all out so we can point later and say "see I told you so" Ultimately as Keynes said "in the long run we're all dead" it's just a matter of passing the time until the end.
Stitcher Caldari	Posted - 2011.08.31 21:10:00 - [152] Originally by: Sullen Skoung Or STO if you were there to watch that disaster. They crowed the "Vanity items only" on their forums too. The SECOND the game launched they put races that have ingame effects you cant get in game in there. NON VANITY Then ships with abilities the other in game ships cant get NON VANITY Then sp boosters that made you level faster NON VANITY hell they even made respecs cost REAL MONEY Dont believe me? Look for youeself False Attribution: You are appealing to irrelevant information. STO is not EVE, and CCP are not Cryptic (well, they can be. but not that kind of Cryptic) The fact that something was done in STO has no bearing on whether or not it will be done in EVE. Hasty Generalization: "I can prove that one games developer has introduced non-cosmetic microtransaction items to their games after promising not to. This is proof that ALL games developers will do so." and finally: Mind Projection Fallacy. "I believe that CCP intend to go back on their word. Therefore, they are going to go back on their word." - - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain.
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.08.31 21:38:00 - [153] Originally by: Stitcher Originally by: Sullen Skoung Or STO if you were there to watch that disaster. They crowed the "Vanity items only" on their forums too. The SECOND the game launched they put races that have ingame effects you cant get in game in there. NON VANITY Then ships with abilities the other in game ships cant get NON VANITY Then sp boosters that made you level faster NON VANITY hell they even made respecs cost REAL MONEY Dont believe me? Look for youeself False Attribution: You are appealing to irrelevant information. STO is not EVE, and CCP are not Cryptic (well, they can be. but not that kind of Cryptic) The fact that something was done in STO has no bearing on whether or not it will be done in EVE. No he's not he's drawing a comparison with a similar entity and event. He's given an example of another company that has followed this path and shown where they went. It is never implied or suggested that CCP and Cryptic are the same further false attribution is not what you are claiming it is. From your link "occurs when an advocate appeals to an irrelevant, unqualified, unidentified, biased or fabricated source in support of an argument" The comparison is relevant, qualified, identified, unbiased and accurate therefor this is not an example of false attribution. It's a simple statement of fact Cryptic's STO is the closest example in similarity to EVE, it's a space based MMO. That swore they were only going to go with vanity items then went back on their word. Quote: Hasty Generalization: "I can prove that one games developer has introduced non-cosmetic microtransaction items to their games after promising not to. This is proof that ALL games developers will do so." No one is saying it's proof of anything it's simply evidence that what a game developer says does not have any relationship to their ultimate actions. Quote: and finally: Mind Projection Fallacy. "I believe that CCP intend to go back on their word. Therefore, they are going to go back on their word." The problem for you is that CCP has already went back on their word simply by introducing the NEX store in the first place. CCP blew their credibility when they stated they had no plans to implement Micro-transactions in May of 2010 when it's obvious that such plans must have existed for them to have implemented the NEX a year later. Let me go over that again in case you missed it in May of 2010 CCP stated plainly that they had "no plans for micro-transactions" 1 year later they show the NEX store to the CSM. Once again a lack of faith in CCP's word is a quite rational position given past history.
Stitcher Caldari	Posted - 2011.08.31 21:52:00 - [154] Originally by: Skex Relbore Let me go over that again in case you missed it in May of 2010 CCP stated plainly that they had "no plans for micro-transactions" 1 year later they show the NEX store to the CSM. "We presently have no plans to..." is a very different thing from "we categorically will never..." - - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain.
Elyssa MacLeod	Posted - 2011.08.31 22:41:00 - [155] Originally by: Mendolus Let me remind you guys, I am here personally to spend time with friends, and ride this game until the wheels fall off, actually it looks like youre here to cruise the forums lol You ever spend time IN GAME or are you like me where he forums are more fun than the game?
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.08.31 22:43:00 - [156] Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 31/08/2011 22:44:53 Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 31/08/2011 22:44:14 Originally by: Stitcher Originally by: Sullen Skoung Or STO if you were there to watch that disaster. They crowed the "Vanity items only" on their forums too. The SECOND the game launched they put races that have ingame effects you cant get in game in there. NON VANITY Then ships with abilities the other in game ships cant get NON VANITY Then sp boosters that made you level faster NON VANITY hell they even made respecs cost REAL MONEY Dont believe me? Look for youeself False Attribution: You are appealing to irrelevant information. STO is not EVE, and CCP are not Cryptic (well, they can be. but not that kind of Cryptic) The fact that something was done in STO has no bearing on whether or not it will be done in EVE. Hasty Generalization: "I can prove that one games developer has introduced non-cosmetic microtransaction items to their games after promising not to. This is proof that ALL games developers will do so." and finally: Mind Projection Fallacy. "I believe that CCP intend to go back on their word. Therefore, they are going to go back on their word." Learn from the past or youre doomed to repeat it. so yeah.. pretend theres no corollary all you want. I dont expect YOU to get it tho; youre far far too CCP fanboi for reason to affect you -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too.
supersexysucker	Posted - 2011.08.31 22:54:00 - [157] It aint microtrasnactions... A micropayment is a financial transaction involving a very small sum of money and usually one that occurs online. PayPal defines a micropayment as a transaction of less than 12 USD. It's a full out buying shiť while still paying for a sub. Fucĸ ccp.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation	Posted - 2011.09.01 01:15:00 - [158] Originally by: Elyssa MacLeod Originally by: Mendolus Let me remind you guys, I am here personally to spend time with friends, and ride this game until the wheels fall off, actually it looks like youre here to cruise the forums lol You ever spend time IN GAME or are you like me where he forums are more fun than the game? I'm a software engineer, so when I get writer's block, I come to the internet to shake stuff loose, helps to exercise your mind on something different, even if it is just mundane like posting on online forums. It breaks the vicious cycle and card house I had built up in short term memory so I am not stuck in a damned loop for hours. It's... not exactly easy to explain, but yea, 95% of my posts are done while at work, I PLAY the game in my free time. __________________________________________________ ...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the apocalypse, i.e. The Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation	Posted - 2011.09.01 01:32:00 - [159] Edited by: Mendolus on 01/09/2011 01:34:11 Originally by: Sullen Skoung Learn from the past or youre doomed to repeat it. so yeah.. pretend theres no corollary all you want. I dont expect YOU to get it tho; youre far far too CCP fanboi for reason to affect you Sullen, I'm still waiting on some factual evidence that supports the notion that anything we do on these forums may change CCPs mind in the longrun concerning the mere possibility or advent of non-vanity items in the game. I know I know, what else are we gonna do right? You know I watch the news, or read it daily, I have a TV, I am connected to the world around me, BUT I really do feel for people who decide to unplug, claiming they live much happier lives when they are not watching death and destruction on the news every day of the week. Some bull**** is always happening somewhere to someone and it never ends, that's the way of it, it does not mean we are apathetic, it just means how are we going to live if we are never actually living it because we're too worried about everything else? Look, unless you can prove to us that there is a precedent in the MMO industry of the subscriber base both having forewarning about the impending introduction of non-vanity items and somehow preventing it by vocal discord or public rally, I am skeptical at best that any of this is worth it. Look at it this way, what is the only real thing we can do? I know hundreds of people on these forums have likely pointed it out, the one thing we have control over is our subscription itself, that's literally it, have no illusions, CCP owns everything else but the money we give them until it leaves our bank account and enters there's. But see this is the catch, if we all unsubscribe en masse, this will force CCP to recoup the losses somehow, as they have overhead and operating costs, the same way that newly minted MMOs come out with all these hopes and dreams that they will reach a critical mass of subscriptions to recoup their investment costs, and when that doesn't happen, guess what... non-vanity MT is next. Surprised much? So if we all do the only thing we really have any control over, to protest the notion of non-vanity MT being included in the game we will actually nail the lid on the coffin on it and create our own fun little self-fulfilling prophecy. SO this is the real world, sometimes we have 0 control over something, and our choices are to dwell on it and make ourselves miserable over it, or have fun and do what we want while the doing is good, and as long as it lasts. SO for as long as this game has no non-vanity MT items in the NEX store, I could give a red cent less if it is coming soonÖ cuz we all know that means years and years anyways, so I plan on enjoying this game while it lasts. Are you going to spend the next 24-48 months camping these forums protesting non-vanity items? I will make a bet with you, it is friendly, there are no wagers, but I will bet you that in six months you will not be here daily duking it out over non-vanity MT, cuz between you and me, that would be extremely depressing if it were me and that was my free time for entertainment, ****ing on some online forum for a few hours every single day all year round for years on end. __________________________________________________ ...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the apocalypse, i.e. The Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie.*
Flamespar	Posted - 2011.09.01 01:57:00 - [160] I love how people rage about something that is entirely optional. Don't like NEX? Then don't buy anything. But feel free free to rage on the forums and make wild claims about representing everyone who plays.
Mallak Azaria Three 6 MaFiA KRYSIS.	Posted - 2011.09.01 02:20:00 - [161] Originally by: Flamespar I love how people rage about something that is entirely optional. Don't like NEX? Then don't buy anything. But feel free free to rage on the forums and make wild claims about representing everyone who plays. I represent everyone that plays EVE when I say that everyone loves the NEX store. ================================================== I love and hate 0.0 these days and feel CCP is taking a big **** on my chest every time i see super carriers. ~Tipsy McStagger
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.09.01 02:27:00 - [162] Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 01/09/2011 02:27:19 Originally by: Mendolus Sullen, I'm still waiting on some factual evidence that supports the notion that anything we do on these forums may change CCPs mind in the longrun concerning the mere possibility or advent of non-vanity items in the game. yes look at it like this, id rather spend my time "whining on the forums" than lying back and letting them cram this bull** into another game I like. Originally by:** Mallak Azaria I represent everyone that plays EVE when I say that everyone loves the NEX store. 0/10 try harder Sitting back an being quiet while CCP destroys the game as I (and not too few others) see it just isnt in my nature -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too.
Forum Worrier	Posted - 2011.09.01 02:33:00 - [163] I love "microtransactions" i can buy for $0, just some of my surplus isk. I even help out those who have been paying to win for years by buying their plex. Everybodies happy.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation	Posted - 2011.09.01 02:40:00 - [164] Edited by: Mendolus on 01/09/2011 02:44:29 Originally by: Sullen Skoung yes look at it like this, id rather spend my time "whining on the forums" than lying back and letting them cram this bull**** into another game I like. So you're the guy that sits and shakes his fist at the molten lava rolling down the hill about to overcome your entire town, instead of ya know, kissing your wife goodbye or if you have five or ten minutes left ya know... cough ? Always wondered whether those guys existed! Originally by: Forum Worrier I love "microtransactions" i can buy for $0, just some of my surplus isk. I even help out those who have been paying to win for years by buying their plex. Everybodies happy. Your logic is lost to these diehards, even if you sat down and actually tallied up real numbers from CCP to show just how many people 'buy into' the game with PLEX alone, they still would not believe you that P2W has been around since the moment GTCs were introduced? I mean... you can pay $$$ in real life, to get $$$ in the game already, what is so hard for people to understand about that being P2W? Does it mean rich fools are spending a million dollars a year to 'win' EVE? No. Does it mean some tard somewhere prolly bought a few thousand dollars worth of PLEX so he could have his own personal Titan, sure! But did he win EVE with it? Hardly. __________________________________________________ ...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the apocalypse, i.e. The Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie.
Trolls Troll	Posted - 2011.09.01 02:46:00 - [165] Originally by: supersexysucker It aint microtrasnactions... A micropayment is a financial transaction involving a very small sum of money and usually one that occurs online. PayPal defines a micropayment as a transaction of less than 12 USD. It's a full out buying shiť while still paying for a sub. Fucĸ ccp. Lol not bad.
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.09.01 03:09:00 - [166] Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 01/09/2011 03:11:00 Originally by: Mendolus So you're the guy that sits and shakes his fist at the molten lava rolling down the hill about to overcome your entire town, instead of ya know, kissing your wife goodbye or if you have five or ten minutes left ya know... cough ? Always wondered whether those guys existed! lol as I said. Sgt Shutlz have it your way Ostrich, stick your head in the sand. It might protect you. In your own analogy, guess youre the guy that turns away from it and says "If I dont see it, it doesnt exist" see how well THAT turns out lol Originally by: Mendolus Your logic is lost to these diehards, lol WE'RE diehards? How many pages and other threads have YOU been in defending this **** lol look in the mirror buddy oh you cant your head is in the sand -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation	Posted - 2011.09.01 03:17:00 - [167] Originally by: Sullen Skoung lol as I said. Sgt Shutlz have it your way Ostrich, stick your head in the sand. It might protect you. In your own analogy, guess youre the guy that turns away from it and says "If I dont see it, it doesnt exist" see how well THAT turns out lol I already know how it is going to turn out, so I am having my fun while it lasts, kinda like life ya know? I am a realist, you are a pessimist. I accept my fate, you do not. Pretty simple really. __________________________________________________ ...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the apocalypse, i.e. The Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie.
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.09.01 03:20:00 - [168] Originally by: Mendolus Originally by: Sullen Skoung lol as I said. Sgt Shutlz have it your way Ostrich, stick your head in the sand. It might protect you. In your own analogy, guess youre the guy that turns away from it and says "If I dont see it, it doesnt exist" see how well THAT turns out lol I already know how it is going to turn out, so I am having my fun while it lasts, kinda like life ya know? I am a realist, you are a pessimist. I accept my fate, you do not. Pretty simple really. you refuse to believe theres hope that if you speak out theyll rethink their plans doesnt sound optomistic to me sounds down right pessimistic to me. I COULD be wrong, but it looks like speaking out already caused CCP to rethink the plans they had. Didnt they abandon plans for that scorpion you yourself brought up BECAUSE OF PLAYER REACTION? Hey look, you brought your own example. -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation	Posted - 2011.09.01 03:25:00 - [169] Originally by: Sullen Skoung ... They planned to release it ahead of the item exchange, i.e. that it would eventually be a true vanity item since you would have exchange a ship of equal value to receive a ship with different paint. Anyways, you seem to take this game a little too seriously, and I am not in the mood to discuss things at that level, so I will end this here. Good luck to you, I hope you find some way to entertain yourself in the future in other games, sounds like this one is done for you. You are asking for what, proof that they will never release non-vanity items otherwise you are going to wage a forever war of words on their game forums until you get it? You will never get your proof. So, enjoy? ... __________________________________________________ ...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the apocalypse, i.e. The Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie.
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.09.01 03:34:00 - [170] Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 01/09/2011 03:35:40 Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 01/09/2011 03:35:18 Originally by: Mendolus Anyways, you seem to take this game a little too seriously, and I am not in the mood to discuss things at that level, so I will end this here. lol later shultz love it tho, IM the one "taking it too seriously" when IM just not lying down to let CCP run over me. -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too.
Forum Worrier	Posted - 2011.09.01 03:42:00 - [171] Originally by: Sullen Skoung lol later shultz love it tho, IM the one "taking it too seriously" when IM just not lying down to let CCP run over me. Must get last word in on internets or I have lost! Taking it seriously enough to edit that last post twice. Sad.
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.09.01 03:45:00 - [172] Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 01/09/2011 03:46:24 Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 01/09/2011 03:45:42 Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 01/09/2011 03:45:45 Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 01/09/2011 03:45:50 Originally by: Forum Worrier Originally by: Sullen Skoung lol later shultz love it tho, IM the one "taking it too seriously" when IM just not lying down to let CCP run over me. Must get last word in on internets or I have lost! Taking it seriously enough to edit that last post twice. Sad. yup this be the best game in the world EVE-O -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too.
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.09.01 05:36:00 - [173] Originally by: Stitcher Edited by: Stitcher on 31/08/2011 22:20:34 Originally by: Skex Relbore Let me go over that again in case you missed it in May of 2010 CCP stated plainly that they had "no plans for micro-transactions" 1 year later they show the NEX store to the CSM. "We presently have no plans to..." is a very different thing from "we categorically will never..." the former simply means that, at the time of issuing the statement, they were not actively working towards implementing microtransactions. Such a statement is not incompatible with the subsequent introduction of the NeX store. It is NOT a cast-iron promise that there will never be microtransactions at all. If they had made such a promise, then you would have a point. They did not. They have not gone back on their word. What you're doing is misinterpreting their statement and then getting angry when their actions don't match your inaccurate belief about what they meant, even though their actions entirely do match what they actually said. If I say "I'm not planning to go shopping today" but then I go to the cupboard and find I'm out of tea bags so decide to pop out and do my groceries anyway, that doesn't make the first statement a lie. You really think this thing went from no we aren't going to do this to actual implementation from this company in less than a year? They've spent how many years to come out with the joke that's the captain's quarters? and you think they managed to push this out in less than 12 months? hah. Please, there is no way I believe they went from "no plans" to implementation in less than a year. And even if that's the case the only commitment we have on P2W is that same "no current plans" "promise". They showed quite clearly that such a commitment means well precisely jack all. Ergo their complete lack of credibility on the commitment to stick to "vanity" only.
Myxx Atropos Group	Posted - 2011.09.01 05:44:00 - [174] I love this thread so very much. I'm getting quite the laugh out of people trying to defend the nex store. I still think it ought to be torn down entirely. -- Originally by: CCP Explorer (and if you guys would also stop using Drakes it would be really appreciated, kthxbye). Originally by: Tom Gerard Then again... I am a moron.
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.09.01 05:46:00 - [175] Originally by: Myxx I love this thread so very much. I'm getting quite the laugh out of people trying to defend the nex store. I still think it ought to be torn down entirely. lol you must be to the point of tears with Mendolus -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too.
Flamespar	Posted - 2011.09.01 05:49:00 - [176] If people like and use NEX it will remain. If people don't like it, and don't use, it it will not. CCP aren't going to put tons of developmental time into a feature that nobody uses. PS. I love Incarna, and I love you.
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.09.01 05:53:00 - [177] Originally by: Myxx I love this thread so very much. I'm getting quite the laugh out of people trying to defend the nex store. I still think it ought to be torn down entirely. Combination of denial, paid shills and unrealistic optimism. I agree that the it should be removed it's presence will continue to draw the attention of the bean counters who only understand value in terms of revenue generators and cost centers that are easily tangible yet have problems with valuing intangible assets like customer loyalty and corporate integrity.
Aldan Romar Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2011.09.01 06:00:00 - [178] Originally by: Mallak Azaria I represent everyone that plays EVE when I say that everyone loves the NEX store. I hate to do this, but all the whiners in this thread are not (okay, maybe they have ceased playing EVE...). So just lie back, collect their tears, and enjoy... 'Style over substance
Mokanor Lenak	Posted - 2011.09.01 06:02:00 - [179] People are angry that prices are high because they want to buy something. People are angry that prices are low because they want to sell something. People are angry when PLEX price might go up because they buy it for game time. People are angry when PLEX price might go down because they sell it for ISK. People are angry that vanity items are out of their reach. People are angry that they can buy vanity items but it cost a lot. People are angry that they don't have new ships. People are angry that they can't get current ships fast enough. And everyone blame it on CCP. You just can't please anyone... Its a game. Its just ISK, not game breaking mechanics gone wrong. Get a grip on your nerves. Go out for a walk and take a break and a breather. Enjoy the game, not the jealousy that person X has a bionic eye in his portrait or not. People say this is not WoW, but its so much like WoW community wise. People just keep *****ing about 24/7. Seriously... P.S This is not microtransaction.
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.09.01 06:32:00 - [180] Originally by: Mokanor Lenak People are angry that prices are high because they want to buy something. People are angry that prices are low because they want to sell something. People are angry when PLEX price might go up because they buy it for game time. People are angry when PLEX price might go down because they sell it for ISK. People are angry that vanity items are out of their reach. People are angry that they can buy vanity items but it cost a lot. People are angry that they don't have new ships. People are angry that they can't get current ships fast enough. And everyone blame it on CCP. You just can't please anyone... Its a game. Its just ISK, not game breaking mechanics gone wrong. Get a grip on your nerves. Go out for a walk and take a break and a breather. Enjoy the game, not the jealousy that person X has a bionic eye in his portrait or not. People say this is not WoW, but its so much like WoW community wise. People just keep ***ing about 24/7. Seriously... P.S This is not microtransaction. Way to not understand the issue. Most of the people who are angry about the NEX store could give a about the prices of the items in the NEX store. What people are concerned about are the following The possibility of the NEX moving beyond "Vanity" items to stuff that provide actual game play advantage by bypassing game mechanics. The fact that development of the NEX store and content for it is taking resources away from other aspects of the game that need development resources, CCP has admitted that the art department is the major bottleneck for developing other game content and guess who's doing most the work for the NEX store? There is a concern that focus on the NEX store as a revenue generator will detract from future content that woudl be available for subscribers. Most the people who are angry about the NEX store could give a about the prices of the ing monocle, we weren't planning on buying any of that anyway so they could charge $1000 for the damned thing as far as we are concerned. People are angry that actual functionality was removed from the game and they were forced to either use the buggy poorly optimized resource hogging excuse for walking in station that seemingly only exists as a show place for items from said nexus store or stare at a static picture of the **ing door. This despite original assurances that the captain's quarters would be entirely optional and that people could choose whether to disembark from their ships or not. So while we're busy constructing strawmen just how much is CCP paying you to shill for them?
Mokanor Lenak	Posted - 2011.09.01 07:16:00 - [181] Originally by: Skex Relbore Way to not understand the issue. I understand the issue a whole lot more than you it seems. And I'm a pretty new player here. Maybe I just understand more than single minded people like yourself. And they are paying me a whole lot of 0.0 ISK. I'm seriously filthy rich from my post. Thank you very much for taking care of my wallet for me. How much blizzard are paying you for your ranting? First of: This whole concern, has not a single thing to do with micro-transactions. At all. You don't even know what micro-transactions are and just continue old rant. The NEX "issue" people (including you) rant about, doesn't mean anything until it actually goes beyond vanity. I can understand concern. But just plain out ranting? Its just stupid. Secondly: CCP said they are considering or planing making a community walk-throughs in stations or ships, for which the NEX and the CQ are a step-stone for. This is not removing fuctionality, but actually maturing the game and trying other things except the same thing over and over. If they screw it up and decided to go back, its their own shot to the leg. They might not and be able to bring more people to the game. Imagine that. But nothing of it will break the game. You might actually see people who killed you in space in a cantina inside a station and hide under the table in fear, but its something else entirely. They are bound to do mistakes of couse, same as every other company does when trying to eveolve the game. LIke using the space graphics engine for animating characters and structure the CQ. And they said they will address the performance issues. I myself don't have any issues, so I don't really give the same **** as you do on the CQ issues, but I understand the concerns. But again, its not "game breaking issues" like so many people claim for them to be. I guess the static and door is just a quick fix until they figure how to fix the graphics engine. So all you are angry is the fact that they are planning something you don't understand or don't care about, and it doesn't have any implcations so far on game mechanics or game play, and its just plain and simple ranting about "game breaking" which doesn't exist. So from what I can see, you are ranting a lot about how boots and shirts are ruining game mechanics... Smart...
Forum Worrier	Posted - 2011.09.01 07:25:00 - [182] Originally by: Skex Relbore Most of the people who are angry about the NEX store could give a ** about the prices of the items in the NEX store. Most people don't mind the Nex store, only the vocal minority are affronted enough to come to the forums to complain. I like using phrase like most people to support my own opinions. Quote: What people are concerned about are the following Even dropped the most people, now you're speaking for everyone. Quote: The possibility of the NEX moving beyond "Vanity" items to stuff that provide actual game play advantage by bypassing game mechanics. I'm worried about the possibility of China taking over the world and making me work in a sweatshop. I'm not losing any sleep over it though. Quote: The fact that development of the NEX store and content for it is taking resources away from other aspects of the game that need development resources, CCP has admitted that the art department is the major bottleneck for developing other game content and guess who's doing most the work for the NEX store? Yep, copying the model used for the LP store and releasing a few articles of clothing a month is using sooooo many resources. Quote: Most the people who are angry about the NEX store could give a about the prices of the ing monocle, we weren't planning on buying any of that anyway so they could charge $1000 for the damned thing as far as we are concerned. There's that most people again. I would like to see some statistics to back up this claim please. Quote: People are angry that actual functionality was removed from the game and they were forced to either use the buggy poorly optimized resource hogging excuse for walking in station that seemingly only exists as a show place for items from said nexus store or stare at a static picture of the ing door. This despite original assurances that the captain's quarters would be entirely optional and that people could choose whether to disembark from their ships or not. Forgot the most people again pal. No functionality was removed. You can still achieve everything now that you could before, maybe using a different method. I prefer to use hotkeys over right clicking a ship and using a drop down menu. Seems a little bit quicker and more efficient to me. Way to ignore the whole purpose of CQ. Quote:** So while we're busy constructing strawmen just how much is CCP paying you to shill for them? So witty.
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.09.01 14:10:00 - [183] Edited by: Skex Relbore on 01/09/2011 14:12:13 Originally by: Forum Worrier Most people don't mind the Nex store, only the vocal minority are affronted enough to come to the forums to complain. I like using phrase like most people to support my own opinions. Note the qualifiers in the statement, I didn't say most people because unlike the OP I don't claim to know what most people believe, Which is why I said "most of the people who are angry about the NEX store" rather than simply most people. Quote: Even dropped the most people, now you're speaking for everyone. Context look it up. It should be understood in context that I'm talking about the subgroup I qualified earlier. It would be redundant (not to mention wasteful of my 5k characters to Quote: I'm worried about the possibility of China taking over the world and making me work in a sweatshop. I'm not losing any sleep over it though. Yeah because we're all red eyed from sleep exhaustion over this issue. No I'm not losing any sleep over it either. Quote: Yep, copying the model used for the LP store and releasing a few articles of clothing a month is using sooooo many resources. Apparently it is since it seems that's the only thing the art department is releasing. Also regardless of how much time it's taking it's still taking resources that many people would rather see used for more useful content. Also remember any money spent on resources to build the damned NEX store is money that wasn't spent developing content for the rest of the game. Quote: Most the people who are angry about the NEX store could give a ** about the prices of the ing monocle, we weren't planning on buying any of that anyway so they could charge $1000 for the damned thing as far as we are concerned. There's that most people again. I would like to see some statistics to back up this claim please. Once again look at the qualifier. I don't know what the statistics are anymore than you do, What I do know is that from the people I know in the game precisely one person likes the idea of MT and not one person is happy with the state of the CQ or losing the functionality that the old hanger view provided. Quote: Forgot the most people again pal. No functionality was removed. You can still achieve everything now that you could before, maybe using a different method. I prefer to use hotkeys over right clicking a ship and using a drop down menu. Seems a little bit quicker and more efficient to me. Way to ignore the whole purpose of CQ. Yeah I can see how a Carebear who might only have 3-4 ships in their hanger might not understand that this is a loss of functionality. My hanger has over 100 ships in it it's not automatically obvious which one I'm in from a glance. So no it's not more convenient. Then there is the massive performance issues involved with the CQ, not only is it pathetic to be the results of half a decade of work it's a bloated poorly optimized bit of code that should barely qualify for Beta status. In fact I actually like the idea in concept I think station environments will be good for the game, But forcing people to chose between loading this bloated piece of crap or getting anything close to acceptable performance pretty much ensured that pretty damned near everyone is disabling station environments. If they'd went with the original plan of a disembark button people would be able to keep the option of using the CQ or keeping decent performance. Which would have been a smart bit of functionality to provide when you are releasing beta code to a live environment. Quote:** So while we're busy constructing strawmen just how much is CCP paying you to shill for them? So witty. Yet probably true.
Forum Worrier	Posted - 2011.09.01 14:23:00 - [184] Edited by: Forum Worrier on 01/09/2011 14:23:42 Originally by: Skex Relbore pretty damned near everyone How much is that as a percentage?
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.09.01 14:46:00 - [185] Originally by: Mokanor Lenak <snip more stupid> The issue is a matter of trust and yes it is about Micro-transactions or at least P2W I suppose since technically it's hard to call CCP's implementation "Micro". Keep spinning your strawman though, I'm all for WIS and adding a station environment to the game, I actually think it is a good thing and should make the game more accessible to people who have some psychological need for an actual human avatar. Not to mention the fact that it will actually help the social aspect of the game to have a place where one can interact with other players in an environment where people don't have to constantly be prepared for surprise PVP. A case can be made that the CQ is a stepping stone to WIS this is not the case for the NEX, WIS can exist perfectly fine sans NEX the reverse is not really true. The impression I get is that the CQ was pushed out half baked simply to provide an excuse for wedging the companies foot in the MT P2W door with the NEX store. Oh yeah and it's quite rich to get this Quote: You might actually see people who killed you in space in a cantina inside a station and hide under the table in fear, but its something else entirely. From a posting alt take a look at my killboard nitwit I'm no frightened little carebear afraid of a little pew pew, PVP is the main reason I play the frigging game. Believe me if people trusted CCP to stick to Vanity only there wouldn't be a huge issue here. The problem is that CCP blew their credibility when they reversed themselves their assurance that they weren't going to implement a cash shop in EVE. We also know that they've already considered pay for advantage when they floated the idea of Plex for neural remaps. You have to ignore a whole hell of alot of context and evidence to take CCP at their word at this point. I'll grant Mendolus this much though, he's correct in stating that we're pretty much just ****ing in the wind here. CCP is going to do what they are going to do regardless of player reaction. In part because there is a substantial portion of the population who will go along and in part because the decision makers at CCP have already made up their mind on where they want to go. The only challenge they see is how to force it down our throats in a way that doesn't lead to a mass exodus. I'm simply entertaining myself arguing about it. I'm under no illusion that I'll change anyone's mind particularly not Hilmar's. I just like tearing apart bad arguments and identifying and correcting any flaws in my own.
tika te	Posted - 2011.09.01 14:50:00 - [186] even the dumbest ape would have realized by now that there is a fairly large number of players in the forums here that does't want any kind of MT ingame.. if you want to discuss about numbers - go and learn sth about statistics and statistical analysis (not sure how its called correctly in english, but you get the point) first..
octahexx Charante	Posted - 2011.09.01 14:52:00 - [187] because protesting nex store golden ammo will really mean something once WOD is online and their new money golden main income goose.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation	Posted - 2011.09.01 14:57:00 - [188] Originally by: tika te even the dumbest ape would have realized by now that there is a fairly large number of players in the forums here that does't want any kind of MT ingame.. if you want to discuss about numbers - go and learn sth about statistics and statistical analysis (not sure how its called correctly in english, but you get the point) first.. Oh, the 1% of the subscriber base that comes here to ***** and moan are some huge deal? There were maybe a couple hundreds ships outside Jita during the protest, from all over the game, with some 40-50k people online, a couple hundred showed up to pelt a statue in protest... and tens of thousands of others do not bother or have no idea or care in the world about any of it to begin with. ...where are your huddled masses of overwhelming numbers in protest of this 'MT' you speak of? I am assuming you mean non-vanity items, are there any on the NEX you can point me to so I can pay to win the game already? Oh, I can already just sell GTCs until I have enough ISK to purchase a titan pilot from the bazaar that if I myself were a rookie puts me two years ahead of every other rookie in the game who cannot afford to purchase a couple grand worth of GTCs to sell for ingame currency, silly me for forgetting. __________________________________________________ ...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the apocalypse, i.e. The Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie.
tika te	Posted - 2011.09.01 15:01:00 - [189] Edited by: tika te on 01/09/2011 15:01:29 Originally by: Mendolus Oh, the 1% of the subscriber base that comes here to *** and moan are some huge deal? There were maybe a couple hundreds ships outside Jita during the protest, from all over the game, with some 40-50k people online, a couple hundred showed up to pelt a statue in protest... and tens of thousands of others do not bother or have no idea or care in the world about any of it to begin with. there you go: Originally by:** tika te if you want to discuss about numbers - go and learn sth about statistics and statistical analysis (not sure how its called correctly in english, but you get the point) first..
Forum Worrier	Posted - 2011.09.01 15:05:00 - [190] Originally by: Mendolus Oh, the 1% of the subscriber base that comes here to *** and moan are some huge deal? Ssshh, you're **ing on their delusions of significance.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation	Posted - 2011.09.01 15:09:00 - [191] Originally by: Forum Worrier Originally by: Mendolus Oh, the 1% of the subscriber base that comes here to *** and moan are some huge deal? Ssshh, you're *ing on their delusions of significance. LOL indeed did you get your name idea for this alt from the website that had the 100 pictures of average forum users? It was effin' genius, it had all these fun caricatures of forum posters with sometimes extremely humorous anecdotal quotes and explanations of each poster. On that note, anyone happen to have the link to it, cuz I miss it already, and want to browse it again. I have no illusions that I fit at least a handful if not more of the caricatures in the list, but then again, it pretty much covered the full gambit from good, bad, and ugly and we are a little bit of everything, only in different amounts of course. __________________________________________________ ...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the apocalypse, i.e. The Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie.*
Milla Lekarariba Minmatar 28 Meows Later Infinitas Consortium	Posted - 2011.09.01 15:12:00 - [192] STFU and **** of already.... seriously
Forum Worrier	Posted - 2011.09.01 15:14:00 - [193] Flame Warriors This one?
Mendolus Aurelius Federation	Posted - 2011.09.01 15:15:00 - [194] Originally by: Forum Worrier Flame Warriors This one? YES! Thank you so much, I haven't seen it in a long while, it's getting bookmarked this time. Thanks again Forum Worrier __________________________________________________ ...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the apocalypse, i.e. The Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie.
Vance Komorov	Posted - 2011.09.01 15:15:00 - [195] Originally by: Myxx GTFO with the nex store and eveisreal(crap) Do something useful with those art assets instead. LIKE PRIORITIZE EVERY SINGLE REQUEST THE CSM BROUGHT TO YOU AND YOU PUT ON HOLD "BECAUSE OF ART" ** your MT store. The CSM is ** and i hope they continue to ignore them.
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.09.01 15:42:00 - [196] Originally by: Forum Worrier Edited by: Forum Worrier on 01/09/2011 14:23:42 Originally by: Skex Relbore pretty damned near everyone How much is that as a percentage? I have no idea (though I suspect CCP does) but I don't know a single person in game who has station environments enabled. The added delay it causes for docking and undocking is too much of a downside for anyone who PVPs, If you run multiple accounts it's also a total no go since the performance hit it creates is enough to pretty much bring any system to it's knees if you are running more than one client at sufficient settings to actually have an avatar, and if you aren't running it at that level what's the point of running it?
Mendolus Aurelius Federation	Posted - 2011.09.01 15:50:00 - [197] Edited by: Mendolus on 01/09/2011 15:53:00 Originally by: Skex Relbore Originally by: Forum Worrier Edited by: Forum Worrier on 01/09/2011 14:23:42 Originally by: Skex Relbore pretty damned near everyone How much is that as a percentage? I have no idea (though I suspect CCP does) but I don't know a single person in game who has station environments enabled. The added delay it causes for docking and undocking is too much of a downside for anyone who PVPs, If you run multiple accounts it's also a total no go since the performance hit it creates is enough to pretty much bring any system to it's knees if you are running more than one client at sufficient settings to actually have an avatar, and if you aren't running it at that level what's the point of running it? Please list for me games (please no flash or browser games) that are designed in large part (performance wise) with the intent that a single player will run two clients at once on a single machine, insofar as the company actually benchmark tests two clients at once on the industry standards and hires QA firms to test their clients not only in a singleton environment, but a multiple environment? Edit: CQ runs perfectly fine when I use only one client, in fact docking and undocking is faster than ever, and my PC cost a fraction of what high end gaming rigs cost. __________________________________________________ ...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the apocalypse, i.e. The Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie.
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.09.01 15:56:00 - [198] Originally by: Mendolus Please list for me games (please no flash or browser games) that are designed in large part (performance wise) with the intent that a single player will run two clients at once on a single machine, insofar as the company actually benchmark tests two clients at once on the industry standards and hires QA firms to test their clients not only in a singleton environment, but a multiple environment? Irrelevant, The fact is that EVE is a game that many people multi-client and the CQ simply isn't workable in that situation. Additionally the poor performance doesn't simply affect multi-client users but pretty damned near everyone. If you PVP the degradation in performance the CQ causes is simply unacceptable hence why no one I know has it enabled.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation	Posted - 2011.09.01 16:03:00 - [199] Edited by: Mendolus on 01/09/2011 16:05:12 Originally by: Skex Relbore Irrelevant, The fact is that EVE is a game that many people multi-client and the CQ simply isn't workable in that situation. Additionally the poor performance doesn't simply affect multi-client users but pretty damned near everyone. If you PVP the degradation in performance the CQ causes is simply unacceptable hence why no one I know has it enabled. Originally by: Mendolus Edit: CQ runs perfectly fine when I use only one client, in fact docking and undocking is faster than ever, and my PC cost a fraction of what high end gaming rigs cost. Don't you skim over the details, explain to me how I can have a moderately priced rig that runs a single game client and CQ perfectly? And again, if you can name any MMO that is designed to have uniform performance on a single machine when two clients are run, you win the prize. Does not matter if you claim that CCP should be doing this simply because players are, just tell me, are there any MMOs that design their games specifically with the purpose of having uniform performance whether one or two clients are run at once on a single machine? You were not around for all the uproar when they removed the Classic Client, were you? Please answer me that, I will not use it against you, I am honestly just curious whether this is the problem, that you did not actually see what people said when the Classic Client was phased out. I had an older computer (think '99/'00) at the time that could run the classic client, barely, I could load the game, and sit in station, which allowed me to operate two clients at once, even though I was mostly using the old machine for chat, markets, eyes on local, etc. This was how I dual boxed, because the computer I did have for my main client, was not capable of running two clients at once, but it could run one client perfectly. Now when they phased out the Classic Client, I was hosed, I could no longer run the client whatsoever on the older box. I even bought a moderately priced laptop with a fairly decent card in it, and the new Premium Client still heated my laptop up to levels that I felt were not good, so I only dual boxed out in space with it for an hour or so at a time before the heat coming out of the vents felt like a furnace. Now tell me, please, remember my question, were you around for when the Classic Client was phased out and through all the uproar, did CCP bring it back? __________________________________________________ ...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the apocalypse, i.e. The Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie.
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.09.01 17:30:00 - [200] Originally by: Mendolus <snip irrelevant rant> I never argued that they should or shouldn't optimize the client for multi-session use, I simply said that many people do multi-box and since the new client can't do so with acceptable performance those people have disabled the station environment. All your arguments about what programmer does what are immaterial to the point. I also understand that older computers are going to have problems and that at some point a developer has to abandon legacy support to remain relevant. Once again that is irrelevant. I don't know what the specs on your rig are but I know mine has unacceptable performance with the CQ running, it's almost tolerable when I'm only running a single client but it's still laggier than with the CQ disabled (interesting that simply having the station environment enabled is detrimental to performance when you aren't in a station). I don't know what your activities in EVE are but for what I do having the CQ enabled is a non-starter. The same goes for the people I've spoke with on the issue in corp. There is a reason why "the door" is a running joke nowadays, you know. The worst of it however is just how underwhelming the results are, Despite having the most resource intensive engine in all of PC gaming we end up with a station envirnment that for the msot part could have been lifted out of Half-life. Don't get me started with the movement controls and quite possibly the worse camera control I've ever seen. I mean really it took them 5 years to come out with this crap? Sony had better controls 11 years ago. I mean no strafe no free movement camera you can't even get a straight on view of your character. Seriously they need to go take a look at Everquest and check the camera and movement controls there (yes including the 1st person perspective which is what really makes a game immersive.)" or any of a bazion FPS's in existence. All this points to half arsed untested content that was rushed out the door to in order to support the NEX. There is no other rational for pushing such unpolished crap to a live environment. Incarna was the most anticipated addition to EVE since pretty much the day it was released, one would have thought that CCP would have wanted it to be as polished and ready as possible, How many times did we hear they'd finish it when it was finshed and didn't want to push some half baked crap out just to do it. Yet here they go pushing this buggy, poorly optimized crap down our throats. It would have been understandable if they'd been able to separate the CQ from the rest of the client and just let people load it when they wanted using a DISEMBARK button it could have been released as a teaser and shrinkwrap beta for a real Incarna expansion. Plus we know it wasn't a technical issue the original demonstrations of Incarna had that disembark button so they had to actually do more work to remove it. As such it's obviously (and they've explicitly stated) their intention to force people into the CQ environment come hell or high water. One can't help but be suspicious of their motives particularly since it was released in conjunction with the cash shop. Oh and on that irrelevant question about what developer programs and tests a program for multi-client use, if any should it's EVE considering how dependent CCP is on people paying for multiple accounts. As witnessed by the hasty addition of the door while they optimize for multi-client use.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation	Posted - 2011.09.01 17:43:00 - [201] Originally by: Skex Relbore Lots of opinions, few facts. You didn't my question, were you around for the Classic Client? How many threads do you see about the Classic Client these days? __________________________________________________ ...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the apocalypse, i.e. The Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie.
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.09.01 18:11:00 - [202] Originally by: Mendolus And again, if you can name any MMO that is designed to have uniform performance on a single machine when two clients are run, you win the prize. please point out to me ANY MMO designed to be exactly like EVE other than EVE cause theres your answer. Trying to compare EVE with other MMOs is fail -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation	Posted - 2011.09.01 18:21:00 - [203] Originally by: Sullen Skoung Originally by: Mendolus And again, if you can name any MMO that is designed to have uniform performance on a single machine when two clients are run, you win the prize. please point out to me ANY MMO designed to be exactly like EVE other than EVE cause theres your answer. Trying to compare EVE with other MMOs is fail Quote: Warning: DISCLAIMER: Although it is not officially supported by CCP, it is possible to run multiple clients simultaneously. However, doing this has been known to cause some problems with some computers. Use the following instructions at your own risk! Quote: NOTE: As with all of these methods there is an increased risk of system instability with each instance of the program running with more noticeable lag and possible crashes due to the increased load on your system and internet connection. How much of a risk varies from pc to pc but many do this on a daily basis and the eve code keeps getting better. While you may want to go ahead and do this however, you have been warned. Source __________________________________________________ ...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the apocalypse, i.e. The Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie.
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.09.01 18:27:00 - [204] Originally by: Mendolus Originally by: Skex Relbore Lots of opinions, few facts. You didn't my question, were you around for the Classic Client? How many threads do you see about the Classic Client these days? Your questions are irrelevant. My original assertion was that I don't know anyone personally who has the station environment enabled and I explained why. What CCP supports what developers test for what happened with the move to the classic client etc etc, are all red herrings. I stated an observed fact, No one I know uses the CQ; I explained why, Performance issues. None of your arguments have any bearing what so ever on that fact. The people I know aren't using the CQ because it's a poorly optimized bit of bloatware that offers them no functionality they want and creates problems they aren't interested in dealing with.
Black Dranzer Caldari	Posted - 2011.09.01 18:31:00 - [205] If you guys hate it so much, you need to quit. That's not the usual smarmy "herp derp you wouldn't have the guts can I have your stuff" advice, that's actual genuine advice. Companies need to be held accountable for their bull****, and the only way to do such a thing is to cancel your subscription. If you're not willing to stop giving CCP money (and PLEX DOES count as giving them your money) then your complaints are meaningless, because as far as CCP is concerned, a paying customer is a happy customer. Feel free to talk about CCP while your account expires, but still.
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.09.01 18:54:00 - [206] Originally by: Mendolus Originally by: Sullen Skoung Originally by: Mendolus And again, if you can name any MMO that is designed to have uniform performance on a single machine when two clients are run, you win the prize. please point out to me ANY MMO designed to be exactly like EVE other than EVE cause theres your answer. Trying to compare EVE with other MMOs is fail Quote: Warning: DISCLAIMER: Although it is not officially supported by CCP, it is possible to run multiple clients simultaneously. However, doing this has been known to cause some problems with some computers. Use the following instructions at your own risk! Quote: NOTE: As with all of these methods there is an increased risk of system instability with each instance of the program running with more noticeable lag and possible crashes due to the increased load on your system and internet connection. How much of a risk varies from pc to pc but many do this on a daily basis and the eve code keeps getting better. While you may want to go ahead and do this however, you have been warned. Source funny, youre trying to get ppl to point other mmos out for your argument an hey look you quoted EVE's wiki at me... YOU cant pick out a game to answer your own question -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.09.01 19:00:00 - [207] Originally by: Mendolus Edited by: Mendolus on 01/09/2011 02:44:29 Originally by: Sullen Skoung yes look at it like this, id rather spend my time "whining on the forums" than lying back and letting them cram this bull**** into another game I like. So you're the guy that sits and shakes his fist at the molten lava rolling down the hill about to overcome your entire town, instead of ya know, kissing your wife goodbye or if you have five or ten minutes left ya know... cough ? Always wondered whether those guys existed! Originally by: Forum Worrier I love "microtransactions" i can buy for $0, just some of my surplus isk. I even help out those who have been paying to win for years by buying their plex. Everybodies happy. Your logic is lost to these diehards, even if you sat down and actually tallied up real numbers from CCP to show just how many people 'buy into' the game with PLEX alone, they still would not believe you that P2W has been around since the moment GTCs were introduced? I mean... you can pay $$$ in real life, to get $$$ in the game already, what is so hard for people to understand about that being P2W? Does it mean rich fools are spending a million dollars a year to 'win' EVE? No. Does it mean some tard somewhere prolly bought a few thousand dollars worth of PLEX so he could have his own personal Titan, sure! But did he win EVE with it? Hardly. Pay to win and money for gold are 2 separate issues. With buying gold, you have to play longer to achieve the same effect, but the end result is still attainable (for those not paying). Pay to win gives you an advantage that can't be attained by the party that does not pay. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation	Posted - 2011.09.01 19:05:00 - [208] Originally by: Skex Relbore ... The only reason I do not use CQ is because I run two clients and it impacts my performance, so if I were only running one client I would without a doubt 100% be running CQ because I have 0 performance issues with a single client and CQ, I am telling you this, if I only ran one client as CCP supports, per their verbatim above, I would be running CQ. There, you know one person who isn't a lemming. Also, you never stated how many of these people you know are dual boxers or not so your observed facts and supposed truisms are garbage just like your claim that the Classic Client is not an almost exact parallel to this current day issue, where there were people left and right claiming that CCP smoked their graphics cards by forcing them to run the Premium Client against their will and they demanded CCP replace their cards or bring back the support for playing Trinity content with the Classic Client graphics engine. Guess what, it never happened. People who do not know their own history are doomed to repeat it. Get over yourself, CCP will attempt fix the overheating issues that are occurring for some subscribers as best as they can but they will never be able to set the Incarna station environment to perform identical to the previous hangar environments because they are two totally different things. If you do not like Incarna, turn it off, and quit yer whining. __________________________________________________ ...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the apocalypse, i.e. The Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie.
Forum Worrier	Posted - 2011.09.01 19:09:00 - [209] Originally by: Cipher Jones Pay to win and money for gold are 2 separate issues. With buying gold, you have to play longer to achieve the same effect, but the end result is still attainable (for those not paying). Pay to win gives you an advantage that can't be attained by the party that does not pay. Anything in the Nex store is available with ISK and as such any advantage would be available to everyone.
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.09.01 19:10:00 - [210] Originally by: Mendolus If you do not like Incarna, turn it off, and quit yer whining. Yeah well given that theyre taking that feature away too... fail -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation	Posted - 2011.09.01 19:12:00 - [211] Originally by: Sullen Skoung ... So are you telling me that EVE is not like other MMOs and supports multiple clients or should support them even when as noted above, it does not and CCP has obviously not supported it for eight years running? You are pretty irrational, friend. __________________________________________________ ...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the apocalypse, i.e. The Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie.
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.09.01 19:15:00 - [212] Originally by: Black Dranzer If you guys hate it so much, you need to quit. That's not the usual smarmy "herp derp you wouldn't have the guts can I have your stuff" advice, that's actual genuine advice. Companies need to be held accountable for their bull**, and the only way to do such a thing is to cancel your subscription. If you're not willing to stop giving CCP money (and PLEX DOES count as giving them your money) then your complaints are meaningless, because as far as CCP is concerned, a paying customer is a happy customer. Feel free to talk about CCP while your account expires, but still. To be perfectly frank I hope that I'm wrong about the path CCP is intending to take. I hope that the people like Mendolus are right and I'm wrong, because frankly I do like the game. In fact most of the people who are angry/concerned/whatever over the changes feel that way because they like the game, If they hated it they would have simply cancelled their accounts and found some other hobby. I'm a relative newcomer to the game, still I've got just over 2 years invested in this game, which isn't something I'm ready to just toss out; I still enjoy logging in and playing, and I still have plans of things I'd like to do in the long run. I actually did cancel my account and I'm currently debating what I'm going to do when it finally expires later this month. Most likely as long as no P2W stuff is introduced I'll renew it. I canceled mostly to send the message to CCP that yes I'm serious when I say I don't want P2W in this game. Now I can't speak for everyone but I suspect many in the "no MT" camp as it were feel the same, hell many of the people (such as Mendolus for example)who think I'm being premature in my judgement are also opposed to MT. I mostly get involved in these debates because quite frankly I enjoy arguing on the Internets, I'm in a similar situation and frankly mindset as my worthy opponent Mendolus on this matter. I don't really think anything I say on this forum will make all that much difference ultimately in what CCP does. Either they are sincere in their claim that they don't want to introduce P2W or they aren't. Time will tell. Hell these forum will be relegated to archived obscurity soon anyway so we'll have to fight all these fights all over again when the new forums go live (assuming they don't get yanked instantly again) One thing though is that I'm pretty firmly convinced that there are some paid PR shills here pushing the "MT is good" idea to soften the ground for more P2W creep. That's pretty much boilerplate PR practice nowadays. So it's not surprising. As one poster pointed out it is somewhat telling that CCP hired a PR firm and now we get all these pro-MT threads popping up with poor arguments and utter representations of why people oppose P2W. And I don't like leaving such nonsense unanswered. Silly ** like "people are mad about the prices because they're poor" While I'm sure there are some nitwits out there mad about that the most common sentiment is concern over P2W and the potential affects the Cash shop could have on developer priorities and resource allocation since bean counters, executives and investors like things that have tangible quantifiable financial returns over those that are intangible and difficult to quantify though potentially more valuable. There is also the concern about the potential affects that such MT could have on the in game economy. But hatred of the game or even CCP is not a part of the motivation.
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.09.01 19:22:00 - [213] Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 01/09/2011 19:24:22 Originally by: Mendolus Originally by: Sullen Skoung ... So are you telling me that EVE is not like other MMOs and supports multiple clients or should support them even when as noted above, it does not and CCP has obviously not supported it for eight years running? You are pretty irrational, friend. lol IM irrational 300k accounts gets cut down by at LEAST a third if you cut out the possibility of running multiple clients. Yeah MY BAD I thought CCP LIKED money. Given youre OBVIOUSLY never gonna see reason here, Ill use your exit strategy You seem to take this game a little too seriously, and I am not in the mood to discuss things at that level, so I will end this here. Good luck to you, I hope you find some way to entertain yourself in the future in other games, sounds like this one is done for you. -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation	Posted - 2011.09.01 19:29:00 - [214] Edited by: Mendolus on 01/09/2011 19:37:07 Originally by: Skex Relbore ... I cancelled my four accounts in July of 2010 in part because of my disillusionment with the six months of what I felt were game breaking lag, noting that I had personally lost my first carrier to it so I was not merely thumping a book from a pulpit but down in the trenches to see it for myself, and the complete failure of the Dominion expansion to at least marginally improve upon 0.0 space. In the eight months that I was gone, CCP mostly cleaned up the lag, but in the meantime, supercaps and botting became nearly synonymous with larger coalitions, the former being a clear fact one can see on battle reports, the latter being more of an umbrella term for what may or may not have escalated in the recent past, but was certainly present before then to some degree. I could have played for those eight months Skex, could have just toughed it out, had what fun I could make of it, entertained myself in non-capital warfare or avoided blob warfare entirely, and just made the best of it. Instead I tried to take a stand. Well, do you think CCP listened to me and others like me, or is 0.0 still pretty much the same in principle, sans lag? (EDIT) Evidently they were at least aware of it, we can say at the least, given that they have recently admitted to messing up with Dominion, but was this due to me and others like me in and of itself, or due solely to the fact that it was pretty apparent that Dominion was not going to work as intended from the moment it get out of the gate? We will never know, neither will you ever know whether your protest and those who protest with you will ever impact any future design changes or improvements on the Incarna content. Our personal crusades against the powers that be, are just that, personal, in the end the only thing that would ever force a development company to unequivocally and completely swear off the very notion of non-vanity items is if they were already putting the vacancy sign on the front door, because there are no guarantees in any industry, you are paying for a service here, not a warranty nor are you signing a legal contract that binds CCP to your every desire or demand. No one here wants lag, or performance issues, or lack of content, especially lack of spaceship content, but CCP has been promising they would release some kind of WiS content for half a decade, just because they reached too far and bit off more than they can chew (they have been doing this since I know of when I started in '08 beginning with Empyrean Age) does not mean there is now some new crusade we can wage to right the wrong. CCP has a habit of overextending themselves, maybe more so in the recent past than before, but that's just the way it is. We can either accept that, or move on. I choose to just accept it, and make a personal promise to myself, that so long as non-vanity does not actually exist in the game, per Cipher's reminder that it would come directly out of thin air with theoretically, or in some cases, no actual paying subscriber interaction, I will remain and enjoy myself. What else is there to do, camp these forums for the year or two it would take for us to find out whether CCP really does intend to introduce non-vanity items? Frankly, I have better things to do, and to be honest, lately I have been feeling like I should be getting to them instead. __________________________________________________ ...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the apocalypse, i.e. The Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation	Posted - 2011.09.01 19:32:00 - [215] Originally by: Sullen Skoung ... I can run two clients just fine, thanks though. __________________________________________________ ...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the apocalypse, i.e. The Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie.
Elyssa MacLeod	Posted - 2011.09.01 19:37:00 - [216] Edited by: Elyssa MacLeod on 01/09/2011 19:37:52 Originally by: Mendolus Frankly, I have better things to do, and to be honest, lately I have been feeling like I should be getting to them instead. Except you dont seem to as youre here, every day, all day like the rest of us, doing the same thing the rest of us are, just in support of the MTs isntead of against them. Youre the same as we are, youre just against US, not CCP. Dunno if youre noticing this or not but youre doing the "do as I say not as I do" thing
Mendolus Aurelius Federation	Posted - 2011.09.01 19:39:00 - [217] Originally by: Elyssa MacLeod just against US, not CCP. Originally by: Mendolus [...] so long as non-vanity does not actually exist in the game [...] I will remain and enjoy myself. What was that? __________________________________________________ ...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the apocalypse, i.e. The Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie.
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.09.01 19:43:00 - [218] Originally by: Elyssa MacLeod Dunno if youre noticing this or not but youre doing the "do as I say not as I do" thing that. and if you arent against us why are you arguing SO HARD day after day after page after page for everyone to shut up and let it go lol ah I think I get it, you just need to argue. You chose the right place for that lol -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation	Posted - 2011.09.01 19:53:00 - [219] Originally by: Sullen Skoung Originally by: Elyssa MacLeod Dunno if youre noticing this or not but youre doing the "do as I say not as I do" thing that. and if you arent against us why are you arguing SO HARD day after day after page after page for everyone to shut up and let it go lol ah I think I get it, you just need to argue. You chose the right place for that lol Can I ask you, genuinely, to actually try to bring something of substance to the discussion? I am serious, can we get some sort of actual agreement that you will concede to at least some margin of anything I say whatsoever, and I will do the same. Please, just find a few points that I have made that you can easily agree with, and I will do the same. If you are feeling bold, make a few concessions to some of what I am saying at least being partially true to some degree. I am just curious whether you have the capacity to actually make any kind of reasonable compromises in a discussion. If you cannot, then my only assumption will be that you disagree with one hundred percent of anything I say, regardless of what it is, and with only the concern that I myself am saying it, of even the most mundane and factual premises I make, such as, EVE is an MMO. __________________________________________________ ...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the apocalypse, i.e. The Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie.
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.09.01 19:54:00 - [220] Originally by: Mendolus Originally by: Sullen Skoung Originally by: Elyssa MacLeod Dunno if youre noticing this or not but youre doing the "do as I say not as I do" thing that. and if you arent against us why are you arguing SO HARD day after day after page after page for everyone to shut up and let it go lol ah I think I get it, you just need to argue. You chose the right place for that lol Can I ask you, genuinely, to actually try to bring something of substance to the discussion? I am serious, can we get some sort of actual agreement that you will concede to at least some margin of anything I say whatsoever, and I will do the same. Please, just find a few points that I have made that you can easily agree with, and I will do the same. If you are feeling bold, make a few concessions to some of what I am saying at least being partially true to some degree. I am just curious whether you have the capacity to actually make any kind of reasonable compromises in a discussion. If you cannot, then my only assumption will be that you disagree with one hundred percent of anything I say, regardless of what it is, and with only the concern that I myself am saying it, of even the most mundane and factual premises I make, such as, EVE is an MMO. thank you for proving my point. I appreciate it -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too.
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.09.01 19:56:00 - [221] Originally by: Mendolus ... Hmm you don't run CQ because you multi-client interestingly enough this is one of the reasons I gave that people don't multi-client this is your argument? I never claimed to have any kind of statistic or special knowledge in fact I quite specifically stated that I don't and that my information is limited to anecdotal evidence of my personal interactions with people playing the game. CCP has this information and I'd be interested to see it but I'm not holding my breath since I suspect it won't reflect favorably on the CQ. As far as your sticking to your irrelevant arguments stop putting words in my mouth I'm not your strawman. Point where I've said the client is destroying anyone's hardware? I don't know if it is or not. I know there is a lot of ignorance on both sides of that debate both from the people who think CQ is destroying their hardware and those claiming it isn't. Poorly written software can indeed push computer components past their performance capabilities and damage hardware anyone who says otherwise is just parroting nonsense. Electromigration alone will cause problems with components that are consistently pushed to their thermal limits. Pushing a component to it's limit will shorten that components life. Is that happening here? I don't know it's unlikely that problems of the magnitude people are claiming would have manifested unless the part was already fairly degraded to begin with. There are reasons that we call stress testing stress testing after all. It's like sticking your car on a dyno sure it will probably be ok but it's possible that pushing your motor to it's limits is going to cause a catastrophic failure. Most electronic components have imperfections in their manufacture that lead to failure under sufficient stress it's why warranties exist in the first frigging place. As to performance my experience has not matched your own. I've found the CQ to be ok when run in single client mode but there is a performance degradation, not enough to cause a problem when engaged in PVE but significant when engaging in PVP. As such I leave the CQ off. Different people will obviously have different experiences depending on what they are doing, just like the folks who don't understand that it's a damned site harder to interact with the ship you are in when you have to look through 100 ships in your hanger compared compared to 3-4, or those who don't understand why I'm actually more ****ed about the 50 fit limit to saved fittings in the fitting management tool and the removal of it's ability to fit rigs than I am about the NEX. In fact the real thing that set me off about the Fearless document was the fact that even though they'd been ignoring the complaints about that change they not only were aware of the issue but were considering charging us to get that functionality back. Of course no one from CCP has yet to address that issue and I long since passed 50 saved fits even after having to start from scratch (there was no way I could figure out which of the 180 fits I had previous to the nerf were which) And yeah I understand that eventually CCP will probably get the performance issues straightened out probably even to the point where multi-boxing is possible again but none of this changes the basic fact that I don't know anyone who leaves the station environment enabled. Including by your own admission, yourself.
Meryl SinGarda Caldari Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team	Posted - 2011.09.01 19:56:00 - [222] I think I posted in this thread a couple of months ago when it was originally posted, so I'll do it again: small minded and narrow-vision plagued, small handful of players does not equal everyone. Please fix your topic title. Fly safe, Die hard
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.09.01 20:00:00 - [223] Originally by: Meryl SinGarda I think I posted in this thread a couple of months ago when it was originally posted, so I'll do it again: small minded and narrow-vision plagued, small handful of players does not equal everyone. Please fix your topic title. according to mendolus, if you dont have something constructive gtfo the thread -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation	Posted - 2011.09.01 20:02:00 - [224] Edited by: Mendolus on 01/09/2011 20:05:42 Originally by: Sullen Skoung Originally by: Meryl SinGarda I think I posted in this thread a couple of months ago when it was originally posted, so I'll do it again: small minded and narrow-vision plagued, small handful of players does not equal everyone. Please fix your topic title. according to mendolus, if you dont have something constructive gtfo the thread From what I have seen Meryl makes excellent posts in this and other threads, whether I may or may agree with them from one post to the next. Originally by: Sullen Skoung thank you for proving my point. I appreciate it I see, so you ARE the troll here, interesting. __________________________________________________ ...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the apocalypse, i.e. The Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie.
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.09.01 20:05:00 - [225] Originally by: Mendolus I may be farther on the other side of the defense in this whole Incarna debacle, as I said... youre on the other side of the argument, even though you tried to pretend you werent by qualifying that if non vanity come in youll leave. I think if they come in youll stay to rail against those leaving and come up with some kind of really funny nonsense. keep it up man youre hilarious -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too.
Meryl SinGarda Caldari Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team	Posted - 2011.09.01 20:06:00 - [226] Originally by: Sullen Skoung Originally by: Meryl SinGarda I think I posted in this thread a couple of months ago when it was originally posted, so I'll do it again: small minded and narrow-vision plagued, small handful of players does not equal everyone. Please fix your topic title. according to mendolus, if you dont have something constructive gtfo the thread Just because I support CCP and the growth of EVE does not mean I have nothing constructive to say. But I've posted in every rage thread I've seen so far. Sometimes I troll, sometimes I present my points. It just really annoys me when I see a thread so blatantly misrepresenting itself. Fly safe, Die hard
Mendolus Aurelius Federation	Posted - 2011.09.01 20:09:00 - [227] Edited by: Mendolus on 01/09/2011 20:13:03 Originally by: Sullen Skoung Originally by: Mendolus I may be farther on the other side of the defense in this whole Incarna debacle, as I said... youre on the other side of the argument, even though you tried to pretend you werent by qualifying that if non vanity come in youll leave. I think if they come in youll stay to rail against those leaving and come up with some kind of really funny nonsense. keep it up man youre hilarious So I am in defense of non-vanity, because I will unsubscribe if it is ever introduced? Keep the drug lab going bro, it must be really high quality stuff. Like Meryl said, I too am in defense of the game improving and getting better, that means these mindless rage threads where people claim to know or have explicit knowledge that the entire subscriber base is up in arms over something, need to go. There is no possibility that threads like this are conducive to progress, it is like running into a crowded theater and yelling "FIRE!" and then acting shocked when people rush for the door and trample one another afoot rather than calmly discuss the most rational exit strategy. __________________________________________________ ...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the apocalypse, i.e. The Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie.
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.09.01 20:19:00 - [228] lol I was just trolling mendolus I wasnt serious -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation	Posted - 2011.09.01 20:27:00 - [229] Originally by: Sullen Skoung lol I was just trolling mendolus I wasnt serious Alright, I'll give you that. In fact, this one liner makes me happy, thanks! I think we'll be alright from now on, I can and have been known to do some trolling myself from time to time, but to be honest I really do come here to have some good discussions if possible, whether I end up being right or wrong at the end of them. You are right that it may very well be that we will see non-vanity in the longrun and there is a possibility we could prevent it with repeated and vocal complaints in opposition to it. But I am of the mind that requires more time and energy that I am willing to put in, so I simply continue to repeat the only thing I have at my disposal that I feel is legitimate leverage, if they wanna sell gold ammo (at some point in the future), I will find another MMO to entertain myself with, pure and simple. If I am part of a vocal minority and they have already written my sentiments off and accounted for the monetary losses from subscriptions of people like myself, so be it, that's life unfortunately, I don't like it, you don't like it, but we will never win every battle, and I have already put in my time in the past raging against game developers making changes to games I play that I did not agree with. It never got me anywhere before but upset and stressed out, __________________________________________________ ...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the apocalypse, i.e. The Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie.
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.09.01 20:33:00 - [230] Originally by: Mendolus Originally by: Sullen Skoung lol I was just trolling mendolus I wasnt serious Alright, I'll give you that. In fact, this one liner makes me happy, thanks! I think we'll be alright from now on, I can and have been known to do some trolling myself from time to time, but to be honest I really do come here to have some good discussions if possible, whether I end up being right or wrong at the end of them. You are right that it may very well be that we will see non-vanity in the longrun and there is a possibility we could prevent it with repeated and vocal complaints in opposition to it. But I am of the mind that requires more time and energy that I am willing to put in, so I simply continue to repeat the only thing I have at my disposal that I feel is legitimate leverage, if they wanna sell gold ammo (at some point in the future), I will find another MMO to entertain myself with, pure and simple. If I am part of a vocal minority and they have already written my sentiments off and accounted for the monetary losses from subscriptions of people like myself, so be it, that's life unfortunately, I don't like it, you don't like it, but we will never win every battle, and I have already put in my time in the past raging against game developers making changes to games I play that I did not agree with. It never got me anywhere before but upset and stressed out, [troll] dammit >.< I cant holy crap Mendolus you CAN be reasonable Damn you for being reasonable -.- My lack of making sense here is due to being on two Lortab 500s due to a broken elbow and destabilized shoulder -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation	Posted - 2011.09.01 20:53:00 - [231] Edited by: Mendolus on 01/09/2011 20:53:40 Originally by: Sullen Skoung [troll] dammit >.< I cant holy crap Mendolus you CAN be reasonable Damn you for being reasonable -.- My lack of making sense here is due to being on two Lortab 500s due to a broken elbow and destabilized shoulder I don't disagree with you that there is a possibility the vocal minority (whether there may be a silent majority here, we will never know, that is why they are silent, except for their subscriptions themselves) may institute a change in future policy concerning non-vanity, I am just uncertain whether it is healthy for the game in the long run to begin with, insofar as... if the subscriber base drops naturally on its own or levels out, and CCP cannot keep up with the overhead required to maintain it while also releasing ... quality (see what I did there?) expansions every six months, we would either have to accept a base increase in subs, some sort of limited F2P model, or non-vanity cash shops, cuz the money has to come from somewhere, ya know? Every expansion CCP releases, requires more money in overhead costs over the long term, let alone the cost to develop the content (which could already be bundled in their subscription rate though), and if the subscriber base is not increasing a sufficient rate to keep up with that trend, then CCP will incur a net loss, which is of course, bad for all involved, because that means they'll have to make cutbacks in the development and support of the game itself, as opposed to raising subscription costs, or introducing other programs like non-vanity or F2P advertising models. Also, that sounds pretty painful Sullen, Best regards to you while you recover! And again, OUCH ! o7 __________________________________________________ ...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the apocalypse, i.e. The Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie.
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.09.01 21:05:00 - [232] Not so painful as the Lortab sinks in tho :D -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too.
Myxx Atropos Group	Posted - 2011.09.05 03:22:00 - [233] I think the average of 20k people online recently says it louder than anything anyone else can say: CCP has **ed up pretty soundly. -- Originally by:** CCP Explorer (and if you guys would also stop using Drakes it would be really appreciated, kthxbye). Originally by: Tom Gerard Then again... I am a moron.
Trolls Troll	Posted - 2011.09.05 03:24:00 - [234] Originally by: Myxx I think the average of 20k people online recently says it louder than anything anyone else can say: CCP has ****ed up pretty soundly. Inb4 herpderpers "its summer" "its winter" "its hols" "its a recession" "graphs lie" "nex is win, pays for lost subs"

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