Originally by: Discrodia

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For years I said EVE wasn't going to die. I love eating my own words.

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Originally by: Mr LaForge

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Here is the link just incase no one wants to click the shortened one

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Originally by: Akita T

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Originally by: Mr LaForge

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Here is the link just incase no one wants to click the shortened one

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You do know that that site's name is an auto-censored "word" on the forums, don't you ?

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Originally by: Thornat

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While he's a pompus ass and I couldn't give a flying **** about what Goons do or say, he does make a lot of good points here and he is right on the money in his conclusion about the status of CCP.

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Originally by: J Kunjeh

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Sounds like a bunch of hot air to me, which is typical of Mittens. I must say though, it would sure be nice to see the CSM actually doing something worthwhile through all of this mess, so I sure hope it isn't all just hot air.

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Originally by: Discrodia

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I'm surprised it took goons this long to realize Incarnage was a total failure.

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Originally by: Ava n'Daara

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Is anyone actually insane or uncaring enough of their computers' security to blindly follow url-shortened links?

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Quote:

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Since the release of Dominion brought stagnation, apathy and grossly overpowered supercaps to nullsec, these hulls have wildly tilted the balance of power to small æeliteÆ groups of EVE snobs. These people have looked down their noses at the rest of the game, conflating the laughable imbalance of their hulls with their supposed personal skill.

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Originally by: Richard Hammond II

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Seriously you all were that gullible as to believe CCP might dothe right thing? My faith in the jadedness of the Goons is shaken

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Originally by: Herping yourDerp

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lets burn CCP hq down. its not illegal in iceland since its basically a volcano anyways

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Originally by: Grey Stormshadow

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The population graph - if accurate - was pretty interesting.


However it still clearly shows that something went wrong with the Incarna expansion.

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Originally by: Ladie Scarlet

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Originally by: Richard Hammond II

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Seriously you all were that gullible as to believe CCP might dothe right thing? My faith in the jadedness of the Goons is shaken

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Mittens is an eternal optimist always hoping to find the best in people.

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Quote:

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The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.

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Originally by: Simetraz

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Edited by: Simetraz on 03/09/2011 18:24:13
So if you don't want to play the game the way it is and you can't make the company change it, then nobody is going to get to play it.

Well this is one way to close the doors on any form of dialog between game developers and players.
If any other developer had even considered a CSM style option they won't now.

Congratulations.
CSM is now officially dead.
If I was CCP I would shut it down this very second.

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Originally by: Simetraz

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Edited by: Simetraz on 03/09/2011 18:41:29
No it is a matter of CSM crossing a line.

When posts like the one linked gets out CCP has every right to close down the CSM.

CSM should have done the reverse.
CSM should have called it quits and closed it down themselves under the premise of no communication with the developer.

Yes it is a matter of semantics but Goonies has lawyers and they should have consulted with them first, CSM made a mistake here and it was a big one.

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Originally by: Discrodia

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For years I said EVE wasn't going to die. I love eating my own words.

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Originally by: Ladie Scarlet

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Originally by: Richard Hammond II

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Seriously you all were that gullible as to believe CCP might dothe right thing? My faith in the jadedness of the Goons is shaken

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Mittens is an eternal optimist always hoping to find the bestworst in people.

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Originally by: XIRUSPHERE

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The only real way large entities like GS and friends could get CCP to listen is if high sec was sieged to the point CCP's bread and butter started collectively abandoning ship due to threat of annihilation.

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Originally by: Cebraio

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It's been said that super-carriers would lose the ability to field regular drones.

How is that a nerf? Isn't it more useful for them to launch Fighters and Bombers anyway?

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Originally by: Reilly Duvolle

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Kugu thread post bottom part

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Originally by: XIRUSPHERE

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The only real way large entities like GS and friends could get CCP to listen is if high sec was sieged to the point CCP's bread and butter started collectively abandoning ship due to threat of annihilation.

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Originally by: AnzacPaul

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Originally by: XIRUSPHERE

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The only real way large entities like GS and friends could get CCP to listen is if high sec was sieged to the point CCP's bread and butter started collectively abandoning ship due to threat of annihilation.

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This is really where Mittani should be using his pull. Although a lot of us think he's a tool, many of us (myself included), would probably call to arms, if he started a revolt in game to get ccp to listen.

Non-stop suicide ganks, lagging mission/market hubs to breaking point, stop production/market activity, mass logoffs (even the entire goonswarm logging off would show a dip, no doubt).

Instead of keeping it in the Goons, get all the disgruntled to participate, ill even use another plex up to hang around to join in.

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Originally by: Tippia

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Originally by: Cebraio

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It's been said that super-carriers would lose the ability to field regular drones.

How is that a nerf? Isn't it more useful for them to launch Fighters and Bombers anyway?

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Not if they're being blobbed by sub-caps.

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Originally by: AnzacPaul

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Instead of keeping it in the Goons, get all the disgruntled to participate, ill even use another plex up to hang around to join in.

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Originally by: XIRUSPHERE

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The only real way large entities like GS and friends could get CCP to listen is if high sec was sieged to the point CCP's bread and butter started collectively abandoning ship due to threat of annihilation.

Strong words and promises can be made but the only real thing that would make them take heed is a large dip in subs, you could make a lot more people leave the game than by just quitting alone. Turn highsec into hell and see what happens to the subs.

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Originally by: Emperor Cheney

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Oh, now he cares. At the time he was happy to make a youtube video for CCP, call the players babies, and so on.

He's just ass-covering to the players so he can say he stood up to CCP. Hoping the players forget that he was so happy to run cover for CCP when it counted.

And his idea that the media will care? Please! There already were media stories, and Mittani was quoted in some of them as not caring. The gaming media has moved on. He missed his chance to stand up to CCP. Now it's just going through the motions to make himself look strong to the players and to his own alliance.

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Originally by: Denidil

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Originally by: Emperor Cheney

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Oh, now he cares. At the time he was happy to make a youtube video for CCP, call the players babies, and so on.

He's just ass-covering to the players so he can say he stood up to CCP. Hoping the players forget that he was so happy to run cover for CCP when it counted.

And his idea that the media will care? Please! There already were media stories, and Mittani was quoted in some of them as not caring. The gaming media has moved on. He missed his chance to stand up to CCP. Now it's just going through the motions to make himself look strong to the players and to his own alliance.

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many players ARE acting like a bunch of babies.

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Originally by: Richard Hammond II

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HEY MITTENS!!!
Leak the Minutes!
Be a rebel

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Originally by: XIRUSPHERE

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The only real way large entities like GS and friends could get CCP to listen is if high sec was sieged to the point CCP's bread and butter started collectively abandoning ship due to threat of annihilation.

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Originally by: Richard Hammond II

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Originally by: XIRUSPHERE

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The only real way large entities like GS and friends could get CCP to listen is if high sec was sieged to the point CCP's bread and butter started collectively abandoning ship due to threat of annihilation.

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CCP is planning on doing that themselves by making highsec not a viable place to live economically

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Originally by: XIRUSPHERE

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Originally by: Richard Hammond II

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Originally by: XIRUSPHERE

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The only real way large entities like GS and friends could get CCP to listen is if high sec was sieged to the point CCP's bread and butter started collectively abandoning ship due to threat of annihilation.

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CCP is planning on doing that themselves by making highsec not a viable place to live economically

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I really don't believe they would do a complete 180 and crap in the largest populations cornflakes like that when the scope of changes in eve have focused on making it easier and more palatable to the individuals who wish to spend most if not all of their time in the hamster wheel. High sec is CCP's bread and butter, most of the players in eve are fine with just dipping their toes into the water with most of the content and are fine with the life of risk aversion provided there.

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Originally by: Kengutsi Akira

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Originally by: XIRUSPHERE

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Originally by: Richard Hammond II

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Originally by: XIRUSPHERE

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The only real way large entities like GS and friends could get CCP to listen is if high sec was sieged to the point CCP's bread and butter started collectively abandoning ship due to threat of annihilation.

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CCP is planning on doing that themselves by making highsec not a viable place to live economically

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I really don't believe they would do a complete 180 and crap in the largest populations cornflakes like that when the scope of changes in eve have focused on making it easier and more palatable to the individuals who wish to spend most if not all of their time in the hamster wheel. High sec is CCP's bread and butter, most of the players in eve are fine with just dipping their toes into the water with most of the content and are fine with the life of risk aversion provided there.

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That whole "no ice for you in highsec" and "we're gonna take all the best agents an put em in 0.0" and the other **** they lain out, when combined with the "watch what they do not what they say" argument seem to support them killing off highsec.

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Quote:

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Mittens is an eternal optimist always hoping to find the best in people.

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Originally by: Kengutsi Akira

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That whole "no ice for you in highsec" and "we're gonna take all the best agents an put em in 0.0" and the other **** they lain out, when combined with the "watch what they do not what they say" argument seem to support them killing off highsec.

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Originally by: Tippia

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Originally by: Kengutsi Akira

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That whole "no ice for you in highsec" and "we're gonna take all the best agents an put em in 0.0" and the other **** they lain out, when combined with the "watch what they do not what they say" argument seem to support them killing off highsec.

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àyou mean apart from the fact that moving the best agents will have zero effect on highsec and that the ôno iceö statement was more along the lines of ôonly some ice products will be available through highsec beltsö, so the effect of that will be minimal as well.

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Originally by: Sullen Skoung

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right who needs good agents in high sec. all the mission runners will go to 0.0

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Originally by: Tippia

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... brain-damaged retardation

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Originally by: Cipher Jones

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Edited by: Cipher Jones on 03/09/2011 17:46:21
What a ****ing baby. Brags about what he got and complains about what he didnt get. Welcome to the 7th grade playground at recess. If you expect to be able to control CCP's management at a macro level you are a ****ing tool.

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Originally by: Tippia

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In the real world, outside of these paranoid fantasies, highsec will see zero change because highsec is simply too low-end to be affected by any change to the high-end, which is what CCP were discussing.

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Originally by: AnzacPaul

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Why are they even making the changes then if it will have no effect?

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Originally by: Sullen Skoung

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you have issues with the mentally impaired I see.

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Originally by: Tippia

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Originally by: AnzacPaul

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Why are they even making the changes then if it will have no effect?

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Because the effect it will have is to ensure that the ôtopö everything can be found in 0.0 ù that is not quite the case right now.

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Originally by: AnzacPaul

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In other words, to encourage people to move to 0.0 over high sec. It's not by any means a needed change, as you said it will have zero effect on high sec.

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Originally by: Tippia

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Originally by: AnzacPaul

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In other words, to encourage people to move to 0.0 over high sec. It's not by any means a needed change, as you said it will have zero effect on high sec.

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Having no effect over highsec is not the same thing as having no effect on the players who currently choose highsec.

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Originally by: AnzacPaul

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I'm pretty sure when most people talk about the change it will have on high sec/low sec/null/wormholes, they generally mean the change on the playerbase, not the physical implementation of it.

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Originally by: The Mittani

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What we see here is the impact of the neglect of what CCP now calls "Flying in Space", what you and I call "Eve Online". Usually after an expansion there is a surge of players who join the game; these create peaks and valleys in PCU (Peak Concurrent User) numbers as people kick the tires on the new content and then either stick around or leave. Incarna, which has taken a tremendous amount of development and marketing resources from FiS, essentially had no impact.

Read that again. No impact. Millions of dollars and months of development, into a toilet. Meanwhile we suffer a backhanded Sanctum nerf and have had no new FiS content besides Incursions since the introduction of Wormholes.

CCP has a small number of feature teams, and before the WoD and DUST follies those teams would be allocated to FiS. Since Incarna ("Walking in Stations" or WiS) came under development, we have seen FiS merit only a skeleton crew, thankfully including some excellent people like Stoffer. This might be acceptable if Incarna had been produced properly - a temporary reallocation of resources for a serious project, then it's back to expansions we enjoy. But Incarna has been a disaster so far; in addition to flatlining PCU, it appears to be suffering significant delays - much like Tyrannis's manifold errors devoured two expansions, we are still waiting for the other three Captains Quarters (the ones that do not look like a ghetto ****hole, and actually seem 'scifi') as well as Establishments. And something about contraband, I guess.

There are two fronts to the political metagame of the CSM. On one front, that of micro-level gameplay, we have done very well with FiS negotiation, focusing the next expansion on 0.0 issues and communicating our views with absolute clarity. On the other front, dealing with macro-level business decisions and squaring off with CCP's upper management, our 'carrot' strategy has failed. We can get along peachy with Stoffer and fix FiS at the micro level. But at the macro level, Hilmar et al control the amount of resources that good people like Stoffer gets, and they seem to think their subscriber curve will go upward even if they spoonfeed us excrement.

Worse, our interactions with CCP's upper management in the aftermath of the Emergency Summit have shown us that the suits are not treating the needs of the players with the gravity they deserve; our willingness to negotiate in a chill way with the FiS teams (which has met with obvious success) is being misinterpreted as a sign of weakness and compliance by the suits.

So the gloves come off. There's not much point for Goonswarm striving to 'fix EVE' by seizing control of the CSM and negotiating successfully with the FiS devs if the amount of resources allocated to FiS itself dwindles and the game continues to stagnate. In the coming weeks we are going to be making some extremely loud statements regarding the neglect of FiS, the failure of Incarna, and the need for CCP's management to pull the game out of this stall. We need something new to do, not something new to wear.

This will not take the form of an incoherent threadnaught (though that certainly got results, last time) but we may seize control of the internet's dynamic media - Slashdot, Digg, Reddit, and the gaming press as a whole for several news cycles.

We will not stand idly by as an alliance while our subscription money goes to waste, watching the game we pay to play spiraling into entropy due to the folly and neglect of CCP's management. It is not yet time to start a fire, but get your gasoline ready.

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Originally by: Living Dead Girl

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Couple of things. First off, Didnt the goons want to destroy eve? now they want to save it?

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Originally by: Living Dead Girl

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Couple of things. First off, Didnt the goons want to destroy eve? now they want to save it?
Secondly, Interesting read.
Finally, bolded the only part of all that that JUST might get the attention of CCP upper management, assuming of course mitts and anyone else onboard can pull it off.

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Originally by: Oglyn

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Is this the same Mittani who flamed CCP on 11 November 2009 for their supercarrier nerf?
Is this the same Mittani who flamed CCP for letting players have out of game access to Devs?

The guy sure backtracks fast when it is in his interest rather than that of the game.

Wait, what? He is also the head of the CSM?

Those are the guys who are meant to be looking out for the best interests of the entire playerbase, right? (After being setup on the pretext of preventing further player influence over devs?)

Just, wow

Irony overload.

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Originally by: The Mittani

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this is a terrible thread and you should all be ashamed of yourselves

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Originally by: Tippia

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Originally by: AnzacPaul

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I'm pretty sure when most people talk about the change it will have on high sec/low sec/null/wormholes, they generally mean the change on the playerbase, not the physical implementation of it.

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Since all they every cry about is this mythical ôhighsec nerfö, no, not really ù they're talking about changes in the implementation (changes that aren't planned and will not happen).

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Originally by: The Mittani

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this is a terrible thread and you should all be ashamed of yourselves

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Originally by: The Mittani

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this is a terrible thread and you should all be ashamed of yourselves

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Originally by: The Mittani

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this is a terrible thread and you should all be ashamed of yourselves

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Originally by: Oglyn

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Is this the same Mittani who flamed CCP on 11 November 2009 for their supercarrier nerf?
Is this the same Mittani who flamed CCP for letting players have out of game access to Devs?

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Originally by: JitaBUGz TheGreat

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ROFL EPIC. This just adds to the joke, that is the new EVE.

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Originally by: Thornat

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Originally by: The Mittani

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this is a terrible thread and you should all be ashamed of yourselves

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Actually bud you should be ashamed of yourself. You took on a position which required you to represent the community in iceland and turned it into a position to represent your own interest and the interest of your corp and alliance instead. Your an *******, **** you, I want your resignation. You no longer represent me.

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Originally by: BehindDOORNEX*****

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Originally by: J Kunjeh

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Sounds like a bunch of hot air to me, which is typical of Mittens. I must say though, it would sure be nice to see the CSM actually doing something worthwhile through all of this mess, so I sure hope it isn't all just hot air.

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Kunjeh, how was your holiday?

Ps...your still "outed" as a fanbois

Also..on topic, CSM needing credibility?

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Originally by: J Kunjeh

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My holiday? Eh?

Outed as a fanboi? Shoot, I wear that badge with pride!

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Originally by: Trolls Troll

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Originally by: J Kunjeh

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My holiday? Eh?

Outed as a fanboi? Shoot, I wear that badge with pride!

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Wat a shame you cant wear those lolnexclothes with pride.

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Originally by: Trolls Troll

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Originally by: J Kunjeh

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My holiday? Eh?

Outed as a fanboi? Shoot, I wear that badge with pride!

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Wat a shame you cant wear those lolnexclothes with pride.

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Originally by: J Kunjeh

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Originally by: Trolls Troll

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Originally by: J Kunjeh

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My holiday? Eh?

Outed as a fanboi? Shoot, I wear that badge with pride!

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Wat a shame you cant wear those lolnexclothes with pride.

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You might not be able to, but clearly I can. Can't you see me gleaming with pride in that picture?

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Originally by: The Mittani

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this is a terrible thread and you should all be ashamed of yourselves

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Originally by: The Mittani

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this is a terrible thread and you should all be ashamed of yourselves

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Originally by: Ghoest

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Originally by: The Mittani

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this is a terrible thread and you should all be ashamed of yourselves

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Surely you can do a more creative bump.

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Originally by: Voivod Rhahk'an Anstian

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Who the f*** is Mittani and why should I care?

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Originally by: Thornat

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Originally by: The Mittani

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this is a terrible thread and you should all be ashamed of yourselves

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Actually bud you should be ashamed of yourself. You took on a position which required you to represent the community in iceland and turned it into a position to represent your own interest and the interest of your corp and alliance instead. Your an *******, **** you, I want your resignation. You no longer represent me.

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Originally by: Discrodia

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For years I said EVE wasn't going to die. I love eating my own words.

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Originally by: Trolls Troll

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Originally by: J Kunjeh

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Originally by: Trolls Troll

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Originally by: J Kunjeh

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My holiday? Eh?

Outed as a fanboi? Shoot, I wear that badge with pride!

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Wat a shame you cant wear those lolnexclothes with pride.

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You might not be able to, but clearly I can. Can't you see me gleaming with pride in that picture?

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You do have quite a Fearless look about you, I must say......

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Originally by: Mr Kidd

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Edited by: Mr Kidd on 04/09/2011 15:40:20
I'll give him credit. He has a flare for the dramatic. I'd go as far to say that the man enjoys the smell of his own *****...excrement.

edit: Really? f.eces is a bad word? Since when?

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Originally by: Tokyo Rose

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Basically he is making fun of everyone

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Originally by: Sullen Skoung

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They get rid of all the ppl that will ***** and pitch a fit about pay2win so they can have something like a grand re-opening and get more players in the game that WONT ***** an wont care.

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Originally by: Ladie Scarlet

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Edited by: Ladie Scarlet on 05/09/2011 05:08:37

Originally by: Sullen Skoung

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They get rid of all the ppl that will ***** and pitch a fit about pay2win so they can have something like a grand re-opening and get more players in the game that WONT ***** an wont care.

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Somebody should ask John Smedley how that worked out for Star Wars: Galaxies and the NGE patch.

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Originally by: Discrodia

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Originally by: Thornat

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Originally by: The Mittani

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this is a terrible thread and you should all be ashamed of yourselves

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Actually bud you should be ashamed of yourself. You took on a position which required you to represent the community in iceland and turned it into a position to represent your own interest and the interest of your corp and alliance instead. Your an *******, **** you, I want your resignation. You no longer represent me.

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The CSM never represented the players, only the people with big enough corps to get them elected. So your argument is invalid.

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Originally by: Ladie Scarlet

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Edited by: Ladie Scarlet on 05/09/2011 05:08:37

Originally by: Sullen Skoung

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They get rid of all the ppl that will ***** and pitch a fit about pay2win so they can have something like a grand re-opening and get more players in the game that WONT ***** an wont care.

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Somebody should ask John Smedley how that worked out for Star Wars: Galaxies and the NGE patch.

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Originally by: Sullen Skoung

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Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 05/09/2011 06:47:43

Originally by: Ladie Scarlet

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Edited by: Ladie Scarlet on 05/09/2011 05:08:37

Originally by: Sullen Skoung

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They get rid of all the ppl that will ***** and pitch a fit about pay2win so they can have something like a grand re-opening and get more players in the game that WONT ***** an wont care.

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Somebody should ask John Smedley how that worked out for Star Wars: Galaxies and the NGE patch.

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Somebody should look at my sig I already said that :D

Originally by: Thornat

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I don't think thats true at all, I've listend and read quite a bit of the CSM activity and for the most part their interest and the interests of the community have been in sync.

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Except for the ppl that live in High sec ofc

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Originally by: Thornat

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High Sec is a very small portion of Eve gameplay,

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Originally by: Sullen Skoung

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Originally by: Thornat

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High Sec is a very small portion of Eve gameplay,

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you are aware 80% of the player base plays in high sec and HAS NO INTEREST in 0.0

you saying in essence they are playing the game wrong is arrogant at best.

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Originally by: Thornat

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Originally by: Sullen Skoung

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Originally by: Thornat

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High Sec is a very small portion of Eve gameplay,

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you are aware 80% of the player base plays in high sec and HAS NO INTEREST in 0.0

you saying in essence they are playing the game wrong is arrogant at best.

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Not at all. I'm not saying they are wrong.

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Originally by: Sullen Skoung

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Originally by: Thornat

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Originally by: Sullen Skoung

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Originally by: Thornat

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High Sec is a very small portion of Eve gameplay,

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you are aware 80% of the player base plays in high sec and HAS NO INTEREST in 0.0

you saying in essence they are playing the game wrong is arrogant at best.

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Not at all. I'm not saying they are wrong.

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Who are you to tell 80% of the ppl in this game how to play it? lol ley CCP change Highsec, so that its not worth living in.
80% of the players is the game - well I usually say 60%, Im, fairly certain 20% will adapt, but 60% of the ppl in the game will LEAVE THE GAME

Yeah thats not significant. Hence why I see ****ing off 80% of the ppl in the game as the CU/NGE of EVE
see sig

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Originally by: Thornat

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And I've been playing the game for 7 years thats who the **** I am.

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Originally by: Sullen Skoung

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Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 05/09/2011 08:02:08
so I should care what you think?

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Originally by: Sullen Skoung

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Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 05/09/2011 08:02:08

Originally by: Thornat

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And I've been playing the game for 7 years thats who the **** I am.

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so I should care what you think? Well I dont an you being here that long is very whoop de doo. Tell that to the ppl that unsub an leave you to play by yourself when they do what you want. You honestly think much dev time is gonna be dedicated here with 40% of the population left?

lol SOE thought they were doing "the right thing" back then too
They probably felt just like you do now

an you "Ive been playing here 7 years blah blah blah" bittervets who want to destroy the game for ppl that live in highsec (lol you should be in Goons. They want to destroy YOUR game too) are the reason noone wants to go to 0.0, above all else. so you make high sec crap, theyll STILL not want to go there, youll be in the same place you are now, but bleeding subs even faster as ppl that dont want to put up with their game dying, leaving to find a game they CAN play "right"

Oh hey wait, I thought this was supposed to be a sandbox? There is no right and wrong...

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Originally by: P42ALPHA

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CSM can declare war on what ever they want. Just like always, they will have no possitive impact on the game. Just players on a high hourse, nailing themselves to a cross.

Could care less.

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Originally by: Felix Emlen

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This systematically encourages highseccer's to push their comfort zones into nullsec, which is what CCP hoped for anyway.

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Quote:

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I'm sorry

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Originally by: Sullen Skoung

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which will systematically push ppl out of this game and thats what the 0.0 ppl seem to want anyways. Well thats cool, when you have less than half the population of the game left, youll have plenty of room for yourselves I guess.

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Originally by: Ladie Scarlet

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Originally by: Sullen Skoung

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which will systematically push ppl out of this game and thats what the 0.0 ppl seem to want anyways. Well thats cool, when you have less than half the population of the game left, youll have plenty of room for yourselves I guess.

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I see no downside to a bunch of highsec pubbies quitting the game. At the very least it will improve lag.

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Originally by: Sullen Skoung

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Originally by: Felix Emlen

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This systematically encourages highseccer's to push their comfort zones into nullsec, which is what CCP hoped for anyway.

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which will systematically push ppl out of this game and thats what the 0.0 ppl seem to want anyways. Well thats cool, when you have less than half the population of the game left, youll have plenty of room for yourselves I guess.

Itll be great for you that say. Funny thought, Im the only voice of opposition in this thread lol
Ill keep fighting the fight cause Im bored tho.

Quote:

---

I'm sorry

---

oh come on be a real troll/bittervet and dont lie about this part at least. Youre not sorry

---

Originally by: Thornat

---

What is more likely to happen is that the vets like me who have supported the game for years will continue to do so, while the nubs like you who are likely to flush out

---

Originally by: Sullen Skoung

---

Originally by: Thornat

---

What is more likely to happen is that the vets like me who have supported the game for years will continue to do so, while the nubs like you who are likely to flush out

---

lol yes, lets leave the game for the bittervets to fight over. If you dont play the game "right" gtfo

have fun in your empty sandbox pal

---

Originally by: Sullen Skoung

---

Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 05/09/2011 09:09:34

Originally by: Thornat

---

What is more likely to happen is that the vets like me who have supported the game for years will continue to do so, while the nubs like you who are likely to flush out

---

lol yes, lets leave the game for the bittervets to fight over. If you dont play the game "right" gtfo

have fun in your empty sandbox pal

lol ya cuz we dont want new ppl or "nubs" to pollute up your leet internet spaceshipz lol

man you bittervets are some damn fun ppl to get all riled up

---

Originally by: Leana Akachi

---

Funny, since Eve is almost about making life hell for other side anyway...how can we give a damn about others?

Hisec carebears dont give a flying F about low/null and nerfs/buffs there.
Low/null players almost hate carebears and dont give a flying F about hisec.

We made protests, lighted Jita on fire, crashed Amarr & Rens, CSM goes to iron out things, we still dont know what the hell went on there, reach-around i guess, couse it seems they didn't talk much.

And now the CSM leader is calling for a revolt? The same one that assured us everything is gonna be fine?
Drama again?

---

Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza

---

Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 05/09/2011 09:06:16

Originally by: Sullen Skoung

---

Originally by: Thornat

---

What is more likely to happen is that the vets like me who have supported the game for years will continue to do so, while the nubs like you who are likely to flush out

---

lol yes, lets leave the game for the bittervets to fight over. If you dont play the game "right" gtfo

have fun in your empty sandbox pal

---

since it's highsec players leaving like you said, how would we even notice their absence, and even if we did why would we care? Lack of Orphanage wardecs?

---

Quote:

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why would we care? Lack of Orphanage wardecs?

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Originally by: Elyssa MacLeod

---

Edited by: Elyssa MacLeod on 05/09/2011 09:22:13

Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza

---

Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 05/09/2011 09:06:16

Originally by: Sullen Skoung

---

Originally by: Thornat

---

What is more likely to happen is that the vets like me who have supported the game for years will continue to do so, while the nubs like you who are likely to flush out

---

lol yes, lets leave the game for the bittervets to fight over. If you dont play the game "right" gtfo

have fun in your empty sandbox pal

---

since it's highsec players leaving like you said, how would we even notice their absence, and even if we did why would we care? Lack of Orphanage wardecs?

---

Hell I dont even get why you 0.0 dwellers are so damn jealous of the high sec players anyways. You get a ****load more money in 0.0 ratting and running anomalies than you do running even lvl 4s especially with the diminishing returns thing they got on the way mission payouts work.

Why the high sec players cant play in high sec an the 0.0ers cant play in 0.0 without forcing one group to play in the others sandbox is beyond me other than they you all either want fresh targets. Thats it as far as Ive ever seen. It galls you to no end that we dont wanna offer ourselves up to your guns.

Quote:

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why would we care? Lack of Orphanage wardecs?

---

Why DO you even care? lol Thats actually a damn good question. If you wanna lower the income of those in high sec so that they have to move to 0.0 youre gonna have to go a lot more drastic than moving ice an agents honestly tho, youll have to move all the minerals too. Since I came back (yes back) into the game from when I left last an found all the agents changed, Ive mostly been mining, and every time I stop to mission, Ive found Im making a hell of a lot more mining than even missioning. Hell if youre really looking to destroy the highsec'er's way of playing, remove empire entirely. Make the whole game 0.0. I think that'd actually be fun.

---

Originally by: Thornat

---

And no, you will earn more running missions. I don't know where you got that number, but you can't just rat unmolested in 0.0,

---

Originally by: Sullen Skoung

---

Originally by: Thornat

---

High Sec is a very small portion of Eve gameplay,

---

you are aware 80% of the player base plays in high sec and HAS NO INTEREST in 0.0

---

Originally by: Elyssa MacLeod

---

Hell I dont even get why you 0.0 dwellers are so damn jealous of the high sec players anyways. You get a ****load more money in 0.0 ratting and running anomalies than you do running even lvl 4s especially with the diminishing returns thing they got on the way mission payouts work.

---

Quote:

---

Why the high sec players cant play in high sec an the 0.0ers cant play in 0.0 without forcing one group to play in the others sandbox is beyond me other than they you all either want fresh targets. Thats it as far as Ive ever seen. It galls you to no end that we dont wanna offer ourselves up to your guns.

---

Quote:

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Hell if youre really looking to destroy the highsec'er's way of playing, remove empire entirely. Make the whole game 0.0. I think that'd actually be fun.

---

Originally by: Reilly Duvolle

---

Edited by: Reilly Duvolle on 04/09/2011 16:08:52
Kugu thread post bottom part

---

Originally by: Felix Emlen

---

Say 90% of the population of a terrible game like WoW didn't want to run end game boss instances- does that mean they deserve almost the same goodies from completing quests as those that put in the effort to do the bosses?

I'm sorry, but you are a terrible poster and have no appreciation for the workings of game balance.

---

Originally by: Sullen Skoung

---

Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 05/09/2011 07:42:57

Originally by: Thornat

---

High Sec is a very small portion of Eve gameplay,

---

you are aware 80% of the player base plays in high sec and HAS NO INTEREST in 0.0

you saying in essence they are playing the game wrong is arrogant at best.

your post make me laugh cause it reeks of tears and...
umad bro?

---

Originally by: Donald MacRury

---

@ Sullen Skoung and Thornat.

In regard to your debate over hi sec, I would like to say a few things because I kind of agree with both of you on different points.

First thing about the risk vs reward factor in hi sec, I do agree that some things are too high like level 4 missions. In regards to stuff like mining and manufacturing, I see it as less of a risk vs reward thing as a demand thing. How much is someone willing to pay for those minerals or ships.

Now with the issue of most hi sec dwellers not wanting to goto 0.0. If you want a good example of why then look at what happened in EC-P8R recently because thats what we will probably see for most hi-sec'ers, just going straight into the meat grinder until they all quit.

---

Originally by: Elyssa MacLeod

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stuff

---

Originally by: Thornat

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The reason these types of things happen is because people are under the impression that 0.0 is something you do alone. Its not.

---

Originally by: N1gella Laws0n

---

One wonders why mittani is among the last to actually ****ing get it...

---

Originally by: Living Dead Girl

---

You guessed it. Carebearing it up in high sec. Something just isnt right about that. If null was put into the game so "Players can forge there own empires/ect"

---

Quote:

---

It is not yet time to start a fire, but get your gasoline ready.

---

Originally by: Living Dead Girl

---

Oh, btw, id like to know what you are mining in high sec that pulls more ISK/hr than level 4's. Because either your running missions very, very badly, or your bs'in.

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Originally by: daisy cutta

---

IF this Csm wants to really wage a war on CCP and truly cause a storm

Then all he has to do is what has already been suggested

Release the original summit notes

---

Originally by: The Mittani

---

There are two dimensions to CSMing, two levels of interaction with CCP.

At the most useful level you discuss upcoming gameplay with the game designers, chill folks like Soundwave who have their head on right and understand EVE. At this level the CSM has a lot of influence, and there's been no reason for us to "declare war" or "stick it to CCP" because these guys don't make the kind of decisions that result in team allocations; they do things that impact the players in FiS (they nerf supercaps, they Fix Lag, they create farms and fields).

They also already broadly agree with the CSM (which is not divided, but actually has pretty much a consensus of views about FiS) so it's not a very contentious relationship.

At the higher level, in dealing with upper management, things get ugly. Here there is little consensus. Here the calls are made to allocate teams to projects, and the CSM is not happy with what we see. However, our functional level of influence over business processes (as opposed to 'mere' FiS gameplay priorities) is an open question. FiS needs more resources allocated to it or EVE will stagnate, then reach a tipping point. The question is if the management will realize this before that tipping point is reached.

Anyway, my post was to GSF on goonfleet.com. We repost those on Kugu because they leak anyway. This is my first public statement on the matter.

---

Originally by: The Mittani

---

There are two dimensions to CSMing, two levels of interaction with CCP.

At the most useful level you discuss upcoming gameplay with the game designers, chill folks like Soundwave who have their head on right and understand EVE. At this level the CSM has a lot of influence, and there's been no reason for us to "declare war" or "stick it to CCP" because these guys don't make the kind of decisions that result in team allocations; they do things that impact the players in FiS (they nerf supercaps, they Fix Lag, they create farms and fields).

They also already broadly agree with the CSM (which is not divided, but actually has pretty much a consensus of views about FiS) so it's not a very contentious relationship.

At the higher level, in dealing with upper management, things get ugly. Here there is little consensus. Here the calls are made to allocate teams to projects, and the CSM is not happy with what we see. However, our functional level of influence over business processes (as opposed to 'mere' FiS gameplay priorities) is an open question. FiS needs more resources allocated to it or EVE will stagnate, then reach a tipping point. The question is if the management will realize this before that tipping point is reached.

Anyway, my post was to GSF on goonfleet.com. We repost those on Kugu because they leak anyway. This is my first public statement on the matter.

---

Originally by: General Windypops

---

Where's the dimension of CSMing where you liten to the playerbase rather than simply trying to force your personal idea of 'fun' and political agenda on the rest of us?

---

Originally by: Cipher Jones

---

Originally by: The Mittani

---

There are two dimensions to CSMing, two levels of interaction with CCP.

At the most useful level you discuss upcoming gameplay with the game designers, chill folks like Soundwave who have their head on right and understand EVE. At this level the CSM has a lot of influence, and there's been no reason for us to "declare war" or "stick it to CCP" because these guys don't make the kind of decisions that result in team allocations; they do things that impact the players in FiS (they nerf supercaps, they Fix Lag, they create farms and fields).

They also already broadly agree with the CSM (which is not divided, but actually has pretty much a consensus of views about FiS) so it's not a very contentious relationship.

At the higher level, in dealing with upper management, things get ugly. Here there is little consensus. Here the calls are made to allocate teams to projects, and the CSM is not happy with what we see. However, our functional level of influence over business processes (as opposed to 'mere' FiS gameplay priorities) is an open question. FiS needs more resources allocated to it or EVE will stagnate, then reach a tipping point. The question is if the management will realize this before that tipping point is reached.

Anyway, my post was to GSF on goonfleet.com. We repost those on Kugu because they leak anyway. This is my first public statement on the matter.

---

What are the CSM's qualifications of making upper level management decisions?

I will just go ahead and answer you with "none". If you manage to illustrate to the community something other than that, I will gladly retract my statement and instead ask CCP why they don't listen.

I am asking in all seriousness, although admittedly with little hope of an answer.

Thanks in advance.

---

Originally by: Feligast

---

Originally by: General Windypops

---

Where's the dimension of CSMing where you liten to the playerbase rather than simply trying to force your personal idea of 'fun' and political agenda on the rest of us?

---

Show me where the "playerbase" in any way is united on what is fun.

---

Originally by: Cipher Jones

---

Originally by: The Mittani

---

There are two dimensions to CSMing, two levels of interaction with CCP.

At the most useful level you discuss upcoming gameplay with the game designers, chill folks like Soundwave who have their head on right and understand EVE. At this level the CSM has a lot of influence, and there's been no reason for us to "declare war" or "stick it to CCP" because these guys don't make the kind of decisions that result in team allocations; they do things that impact the players in FiS (they nerf supercaps, they Fix Lag, they create farms and fields).

They also already broadly agree with the CSM (which is not divided, but actually has pretty much a consensus of views about FiS) so it's not a very contentious relationship.

At the higher level, in dealing with upper management, things get ugly. Here there is little consensus. Here the calls are made to allocate teams to projects, and the CSM is not happy with what we see. However, our functional level of influence over business processes (as opposed to 'mere' FiS gameplay priorities) is an open question. FiS needs more resources allocated to it or EVE will stagnate, then reach a tipping point. The question is if the management will realize this before that tipping point is reached.

Anyway, my post was to GSF on goonfleet.com. We repost those on Kugu because they leak anyway. This is my first public statement on the matter.

---

What are the CSM's qualifications of making upper level management decisions?

I will just go ahead and answer you with "none". If you manage to illustrate to the community something other than that, I will gladly retract my statement and instead ask CCP why they don't listen.

I am asking in all seriousness, although admittedly with little hope of an answer.

Thanks in advance.

---

Originally by: The Mittani

---

Anyway, my post was to GSF on goonfleet.com.

---

Originally by: General Windypops

---

Originally by: Feligast

---

Originally by: General Windypops

---

Where's the dimension of CSMing where you liten to the playerbase rather than simply trying to force your personal idea of 'fun' and political agenda on the rest of us?

---

Show me where the "playerbase" in any way is united on what is fun.

---

Precisely why I feel passionately that the CSM should have been balanced rather than representing a single-interest cartel.

---

Originally by: General Windypops

---

Originally by: Feligast

---

Originally by: General Windypops

---

Where's the dimension of CSMing where you liten to the playerbase rather than simply trying to force your personal idea of 'fun' and political agenda on the rest of us?

---

Show me where the "playerbase" in any way is united on what is fun.

---

Precisely why I feel passionately that the CSM should have been balanced rather than representing a single-interest cartel.

---

Originally by: Sullen Skoung

---

Originally by: General Windypops

---

Originally by: Feligast

---

Originally by: General Windypops

---

Where's the dimension of CSMing where you liten to the playerbase rather than simply trying to force your personal idea of 'fun' and political agenda on the rest of us?

---

Show me where the "playerbase" in any way is united on what is fun.

---

Precisely why I feel passionately that the CSM should have been balanced rather than representing a single-interest cartel.

---

which is why the election process in this game will never work. Unless you make voting mandatory upon log in, you will never get a larger group of players than the Goons voting at any one time for obvious reasons

---

Originally by: Zirise

---

Originally by: Cipher Jones

---

Originally by: The Mittani

---

There are two dimensions to CSMing, two levels of interaction with CCP.

At the most useful level you discuss upcoming gameplay with the game designers, chill folks like Soundwave who have their head on right and understand EVE. At this level the CSM has a lot of influence, and there's been no reason for us to "declare war" or "stick it to CCP" because these guys don't make the kind of decisions that result in team allocations; they do things that impact the players in FiS (they nerf supercaps, they Fix Lag, they create farms and fields).

They also already broadly agree with the CSM (which is not divided, but actually has pretty much a consensus of views about FiS) so it's not a very contentious relationship.

At the higher level, in dealing with upper management, things get ugly. Here there is little consensus. Here the calls are made to allocate teams to projects, and the CSM is not happy with what we see. However, our functional level of influence over business processes (as opposed to 'mere' FiS gameplay priorities) is an open question. FiS needs more resources allocated to it or EVE will stagnate, then reach a tipping point. The question is if the management will realize this before that tipping point is reached.

Anyway, my post was to GSF on goonfleet.com. We repost those on Kugu because they leak anyway. This is my first public statement on the matter.

---

What are the CSM's qualifications of making upper level management decisions?

I will just go ahead and answer you with "none". If you manage to illustrate to the community something other than that, I will gladly retract my statement and instead ask CCP why they don't listen.

I am asking in all seriousness, although admittedly with little hope of an answer.

Thanks in advance.

---

When did asking CCP to devote more resources to FiS require being business savvy? That's all that was implied.

But continue trolling if it makes you feel better.

---

Originally by: General Windypops

---

Indeed. And when your only electorate is your own alliance membership then it's not surprising that's where you post your CSM updates.

---

Originally by: General Windypops

---

Precisely why I feel passionately that the CSM should have been balanced rather than representing a single-interest cartel.

---

Originally by: Bustin Jieber

---

Originally by: General Windypops

---

Precisely why I feel passionately that the CSM should have been balanced rather than representing a single-interest cartel.

---

The players voted for who they wanted. They didn't vote for you so now you're mad.

---

Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer

---

Let this be a lesson to everybody:

Always elect indy players who support piracy (real piracy, not kill-everything-that-moves-Jan-Bradyism) and exploration and they will come up with stuff that all players will agree with.

And by the way, the biggest problem with democracy is the notion that just because someone got elected to something, they are automatically an authority. That's a load of BS. I am very thankful that EVE Online is such an unruly sandbox that this false notion about a false god fails so miserably and in such flames that ignorance burns so well no matter how wet.

---

Originally by: Puppet Mas'ter

---

what % of the players voted again? And what percentage of that was goons voting for goons?

---

Originally by: Bustin Jieber

---

Originally by: General Windypops

---

Precisely why I feel passionately that the CSM should have been balanced rather than representing a single-interest cartel.

---

The players voted for who they wanted. They didn't vote for you so now you're mad.

---

Originally by: General Windypops

---

Indeed. And when your only electorate is your own alliance membership then it's not surprising your own alliance forums are where you post your CSM updates.

---

Originally by: Ladie Scarlet

---

Originally by: Puppet Mas'ter

---

what % of the players voted again? And what percentage of that was goons voting for goons?

---

It's not our fault if the pubbies didn't vote. Take it up with them.

---

Originally by: Feligast

---

So now the CSM = tyranny?

You need to chill a bit, bro.

---

Originally by: Cipher Jones

---

Originally by: Feligast

---

So now the CSM = tyranny?

You need to chill a bit, bro.

---

That's exactly what I said.

You chilled a bit much during reading class.

---

Originally by: Feligast

---

Show me where the "playerbase" in any way is united on what is fun.

---

Originally by: Paragon Renegade

---

It's like watching Halo fans argue about Armour Lock.

This is a good thing.

---

Originally by: BehindDOORNEX*****

---

They might give us an insight into CCP's thought process - well Hilmars at least,

---

Originally by: Sullen Skoung

---

Originally by: Paragon Renegade

---

It's like watching Halo fans argue about Armour Lock.

This is a good thing.

---

never played much halo whats armor lock lol

---

Originally by: N1gella Laws0n

---

How erect do you think Mittani gets every time he sees his name on a website?
lob, partially, semi, fully, rampant?

It's like a male mintchimp... only... somehow more deserate... which way doth the wind blow? He just follows the wind, only so loudly you think he made the wind. Bandwagon Mastery V.

---

Originally by: CCP Shadow

---

Editing to add this: We do not have plans to go microtransaction with EVE.

---

Originally by: Discrodia

---

Forcing voting is stupid because that's not how democracy works.

---

Originally by: Sullen Skoung

---

Originally by: Discrodia

---

Forcing voting is stupid because that's not how democracy works.

---

yes well democracy doesnt really work in a system where you can make 3 new voters as much as youre willing to pay for them (alt accounts).

---

Originally by: The Mittani

---

There are two dimensions to CSMing, two levels of interaction with CCP.

At the most useful level you discuss upcoming gameplay with the game designers, chill folks like Soundwave who have their head on right and understand EVE. At this level the CSM has a lot of influence, and there's been no reason for us to "declare war" or "stick it to CCP" because these guys don't make the kind of decisions that result in team allocations; they do things that impact the players in FiS (they nerf supercaps, they Fix Lag, they create farms and fields).

They also already broadly agree with the CSM (which is not divided, but actually has pretty much a consensus of views about FiS) so it's not a very contentious relationship.

At the higher level, in dealing with upper management, things get ugly. Here there is little consensus. Here the calls are made to allocate teams to projects, and the CSM is not happy with what we see. However, our functional level of influence over business processes (as opposed to 'mere' FiS gameplay priorities) is an open question. FiS needs more resources allocated to it or EVE will stagnate, then reach a tipping point. The question is if the management will realize this before that tipping point is reached.

Anyway, my post was to GSF on goonfleet.com. We repost those on Kugu because they leak anyway. This is my first public statement on the matter.

---

Originally by: Garia666

---

Originally by: The Mittani

---

There are two dimensions to CSMing, two levels of interaction with CCP.

At the most useful level you discuss upcoming gameplay with the game designers, chill folks like Soundwave who have their head on right and understand EVE. At this level the CSM has a lot of influence, and there's been no reason for us to "declare war" or "stick it to CCP" because these guys don't make the kind of decisions that result in team allocations; they do things that impact the players in FiS (they nerf supercaps, they Fix Lag, they create farms and fields).

They also already broadly agree with the CSM (which is not divided, but actually has pretty much a consensus of views about FiS) so it's not a very contentious relationship.

At the higher level, in dealing with upper management, things get ugly. Here there is little consensus. Here the calls are made to allocate teams to projects, and the CSM is not happy with what we see. However, our functional level of influence over business processes (as opposed to 'mere' FiS gameplay priorities) is an open question. FiS needs more resources allocated to it or EVE will stagnate, then reach a tipping point. The question is if the management will realize this before that tipping point is reached.

Anyway, my post was to GSF on goonfleet.com. We repost those on Kugu because they leak anyway. This is my first public statement on the matter.

---

who the f do you think you are?
your nothing more then a fecking muppet playing a game.
This is what you get when power rises to someones head.

---