So are you saying that ganking 300m ship with cheap 2m T1 ship in few days old alt was balanced?

Stupid OP is stupid.

The only way I would agree with this is if Hi-Sec was made completely 100% safe. No ganking, no griefing, no spamming, no scamming - nothing. Let Null & Low-Sec be the Wild West.

Care Bears should be able to mission away to their little hearts are content in completely safety, free from the actions of dicks that just want to f*ck them over.

They should be.

Its fine at it is. It was stupid that cheap ship could kill Hulks. If you want balance so much the lets bring everyone on same grounds. Lets make that all BC, BS would pop as soon they even would dare to fit any damage or scram mods(Aka mining upgarade and skaners for miners). Let make it so that ur tengus and other shines would blow up from 3 thrashers or sentrys.
Since we all need to put tank.

Show me any kills were t3 got killed with 2 destroyers in high sec. If u put tank before balance you lose all yield bonuses , but all other ships can balance dmg ewar and tank modules and Hulks , macs and other couldn't it was tank or yield. Hulk should be on pair with BC (power grid, cpu , number of slots and so on) . Yes they or not meant for battle , but that doesn't mean they have to be paper thin.

My hulk looked something like this and i was ganged several times. And i had only i upgrade and still got my ass kicked.

I think the reason many people didnt tank thier ship is somewhat linked to cross training for all the required skill reduced thier percived progression. Of course it's stupid to see it that way but even when I started 2 months ago, I was chain training mining and boat skill to get better yields total. The support stuff seemed useless to me back then because I wanted to mine and not fight. All that shield, armor and resistance were not linked to what I wanted to do so to hell with that right. It's a bad way of doing it but I am pretty sure many people saw it like that when they make mining thier carrer. I guess gettign ganked is supposed to be learning the hard way. Too bad some people get nothign out of this "class".

As for UNO, never played that game.

Are you saying that ganker should be able to profitable gank my ship if I tank my ship properly (this means I use money and cost goes up)?

The problem I think is many people play game to chill out after a work day. HTFU is not something they want out of a game. EvE is not the right game for them at least now since HTFU is pretty much the norm here.

No, we get it. Your panties are in a bunch because it's not as easy as it was before to destroy unarmed ships. We get it. You're 'leet. Almost as 'leet as the idiot that bumps ships in belts in the Citadel. Now HE is elite.

Grow a pair.

You want your easy kills back and hide it under the guise of making profit. CCP gave the gankers a very nice run with a ship line customized for ganking: the Tier 3 Battlecruisers. Many of you "profited" during this period before the hammer came down because someone figured out an exploit to get max kills in a short period of time. Congrats to that person. Now you're back to having to work for the kills, but you complain. No Easy Button. So some few have figured out that if you get large gangs together, do some REAL intelligence work, and hit freighters, you can make a profit. Serious props there for doing something REAL. But that's too much work for those that choose to "profit" on easy kills in mining belts.

It's not about profit, so give me a break. It's about easy kills for a variety of reasons I leave you to think about. You want profit, but insist on easy kills? Go wardec some mining corps. Or join James666 or whatever in his 'leet mindset of bumping miners to brag about making money from them.

Edit: used "ban" up there when no ban happened (that I know of)

The mack needs yeld nerf (or buff to hulk yeld), not the tank nerf.

Wrong..... Also what about pre-patch macks?

skiff lack its purpose. It should be ninja miner. Ability to fit covops cloak would do that. (at te expense of yeld of course). But this is just my opinion.

Mack is not tanky ship. It has standard HP as any other ship in his class in this game now. ( I know, i know... you miss cheap catalyst killmails).

Loosing their PVE ship in PVP yes i can see why they would moan and btw they are running as much risk as before as they still ARE gankable but boohooo that takes effort and isk.

You serious?You actually seriously moaning about ganking not being profitable?What has eve come to , used to be days you lost 3 months worth in one go with pvp and smiled about it.Ganks where about ******* others day and you didn't care what it costed.

You can tell eve is dead when even ''bad boys'' complain about risk and iskloss.


You're goonfriends are ganking freighters and looking at the drops it is profitable right?


Yaawwwn

Bring back the profitable as long as you also bring in a direct way of teaching miners how to fit prepare for such things. The EvE board is not the good palce to teach this. It should be in the game. Then the player can ignore the info but everybody gets warned about the risk. I am pretty sure many people learn of the risk associated with mining by seeing the ship go boom. Of course right now it happens less but it was still like that before the barge patch. I am all for risk of ganking for miners. It's allright. But please make all the required info available in game to protech from such intended risk.

For example change the basic mining training to give a missing where the miner will get blow-up no matter what and then a second one where the agent give him one of the basic skill book to train and tell him to put "tank module X" so when he do the same action, his ship live through the rat dps till concord or whatever kill the rat. It's super basic but after that, people ahve no reason to not know **** can happen and mining is no safe heaven.

The idiots will still run tankless. Those will be your gank target and they will ahve no excuse beside thier own stupidity. The one who did learn will be the tanked miner. Not profitable to gank because of their fit.

If CCP was to put in a change like that, I would gladly support it. If they only change the ship EHP, they only change one problem (unprofitable to gank miner even with terribad fit) into (clueless miner who does not even know what's waiting for him).

stuff.

Yes but difference between ganking freighters and ganking miners was that You have to pick your target (in freighter case). You have to scan them and gank only fools with multi billion cargo.

But in miners case..... you could choose random miner and gank him.... he was profitable in every scenario.

So whad does this new patch brings? Just balance. Ganking miners are still profitable. You just have to search and scan for good one (miners wit Aoede MLU for example).

So you Goons don't like cheap Catalysts and cheap jump/POS fuel...

A bit weird when we all know you guys own most POSes in nullsec and have biggest capital/super fleets.

s'pose MinerMan tanks like you say he should. ganking still gonna be unprofitable.

what then? then he got too many slots?

so i'm guessing this entire "make my gank easy" charade is purely for educational purposes?

unless...

you displaying a new kind of stupid for telling miners to tank in a "i can't gank anymore sob" whiney thread.

You still dont see the problem. Exhumers were expensive paperboats... so "paper" that they were shot just for fun outside the stations, near the gates and in the fields, because gank was extremely cheap. You cannot gank nightmare or freighter in catalyst just for LOL because they have high base HP (unfitted) Exhumers had only hundreds of base HP. Now with standard HP (as any other ship in their class) they are still gankable and profitable, you just need to scan them and search for expensive fits. This was not about "they should tank it" problem. Problem was their base HP.

There is KM (it can be found somewhere in killboards) where some guy suicided my retriever just for fun. So you can speak only for you and your friends and only for kills you have seen.

People killed miners just for fun. It really happens.

You should try reporting them like everyone else.

You don't report bots. You want to keep them in the game for easy isk farming.

He want the stupid miner who does not tank his exhuer to be profitable. Not the one who used his braincell to tank it. Well it would make sense that way. If even the tanked one is profitable to gank, then **** this ****...

Aaaah a risk free high-sec. Sounds nice. U mad ganking peasants?

Next expansion will bring PvP back to hisec.

Don't like fair PvP? Stop playing.

1) They were only ever able to gank in easymode.
2) Now it's hardmode they've gone all whiney.

I'm calling this for the BS it is.

Goons DON'T CARE about OTHER players.

Using an alt who shall remain nameless, I errr..... helped stirred up a lot of forum angst along with other miners that was, if you guys are correct, responsible for the changes to buff mining barges after the "great ice interdiction".

Kinda ironic isn't it

EDIT - And stop rabbiting about "all but wiping out miner bots". You did not. Not even close. At a guess, 90% of icefields never saw a Goon.

Even 100% of caldari ice is only equal to approx. 1/4 of ice available. I did say at a guess. Could be 50% for all the difference it made. It was a blip. The reaction however was far stronger. Bad luck Goons. Fail.

And did you mean the artifically induced speculative ice price or the aggregate market price which is governed by "normal" supply and demand? (There was a lot of futures trading on commodities wasn't there Goon?)

But meh, as long as you guys are convinced that killing a few Macks/Hulks has a real, tangible and sustained effect on the price of ore, well, you keep thinking that. atm, I see prices higher than they have been for a long, long time. If they drop, and they can go a LONG, LONG way, other market forces come into play and the REAL value will be achieved REGARDLESS of the blips you try to inject.

And NEVER forget the underlying RL demand (subs) - the reason for Eve's existence - needs to be maintained otherwise Eve's market and it's ability to manage itself is all for nought.

So Goon, *I* didn't cause anything. You did.

Goons forced EHP buff and therefore return of "bots".

If I remember correctly it was you gankers only who gave feedback from test server when changes were there. Why didn't you say anything about Mack if you wanted it to have lowest EHP?

Quite a lot of the ganking is done with disposable alts (at least in the past, i've recently returned to the game and as such, are a tad rusty on the various mechanics)... train a character for a week or two in the relevant skills, gank until his sec status gets too low, recycle the alt and make a new one...

Yes, i know that its "against CCP rules" (at least i think it is), but somehow i dont imagine that'll stop too many people..

Another therad caled ( im noob i cant pvp) please give me easy target, i dont like low sec, i dont like null space, i dont like ward dec :( i love easy kamikaze, i fell as badass while kiling poor victims with no tank modules at last it must be a pve fit, because while somone web and disput my ship i got weet pants, also no offence just a definition of people like you.

Sorry OP but you fail.

EvE online status few years ago.

Mission runers were on missions.
Miners on asteroid belts.
Pirates were in low sec.
Other who love pvp were in 0.0.
No obsesion and hate about miners-mining.
Everyone feel more happy than these days.

Go check Amarr.

I have there 1000 Catalysts for 200k each.

I think you're right, Zim. However it seems that every group has a ship they can point to and yell "unfair." I remember when the t3's came out and I thought, "damn gankers finally got a ship that takes no effort." When Titans got nerfed everyone pointed at the Goons, unfairly or not. Mining ships needed some work.

I also think it is a profession that is suited to hands off work, where most of your socializing is on TS as opposed to synchronized gate jumping, (about the same as ratting) so I'm not sure I would say that's a bad thing. Do I think CCP did their usual half assed buff, yeah. But that's how CCP does things. They are still absolutely gankable. I suspect but can't prove that a lot of gankers do not like the fact that the extra EHP pushes them to gank socially, in groups instead of as solo wolves which is the form that I remember seeing a lot when I was in hisec.

You're just as bad as the miners that complain about get ganked when they can fit a tank. Adapt, dual box, make some friends, jesus.

Sure they can, if that is the career of choice that they embark on. It doesnt take THAT long to get into one (i've not tried to calculate it, but i imagine its less than 2 months total training time)... and while skilling up, they'll be able to amass the ISK needed to buy it.

Why it has to be profitable?

So, you don't do it for reasons you say you do it but you do it only for profit.

Why you don't just use your ratting bo... alts to finance elite pvp?

Isk/hr from one ratting bo... alt: 60M/hr
60M = four T2 fit Catalysts?

War? Lol. Nobody will ever attack Goon space (70% of nullsec).

Where it is stated that suicide ganking exhumers should be profitable? Quote and link. Liar.

Do you want to try your theory?

I think you'll find that the "cold harsh universe" is everywhere but highsec.

Ever tried doing some pvp elsewhere?

Oh wait.... don't they shoot back there? Yeah, sod that, best go gank noobs in highsec to make yourself look awesome. EvE is much better with easy-mode on, isn't it?

CCP stated themselves suicide ganking was never intended to be profitable, just read dev logs about mining barges buff and figure out at the beginning this tactic was intended as tool for assets denial, but was never intended to be profitable.
Your reality about profitable gank is just a symptom of a greater illness.

Let me repeat it again for you: ganking was never intended to be profitable.
And I'm sure your a big boy enough to find CCP official stand point about this on mining barges threads.

So, next up on the hisec safetry train is industrials, transporters, orcas, freighters and jumpfreighters?

Then you shouldn't be whining when you get GCC and I shoot some RF PP at you.

So you've tried the "you're all botters" routine, the "nobody'd attack goonspace" routine, the "you support botting" routine, the "every miner is a newbie" routine, the "I'm an internet toughguy" routine, and now the "nullbear/elite pvper" routine.

What's next?

This isn't about what we gank, it's about game balance for everyone. The mining barge buff made AFK mining a risk-free activity & they don't even need to fit a tank anymore.

They do need a tank and they do fit it, that's why you are all crying.

Is there any proof that gankers made any impact on the number of bots or simply drove them to null and the backwaters of the major powers there? Most of the miners that I know who have been ganked aren't bots and if it's bots we are against then thats a programming issue with CCP. The "we're saving them by killing them," argument gets old really fast.

Nice, you're just throwing most of your arguments down the toilets.

So what's the problem again?

(also, your links !)

Gates are already the graveyard camping of so many other games it's just different.
And agree ganking doesn't need any sort of buff but the opposite, needs to make it enough discouraging so subbing the 20st alt with plex for a month to keep doing it it's something you don't want to do unless specific ganking like assets denial without letting know who your main character is.

What engaging gameplay does ganking add to the game? Is it a behavior that needs to be explicitly supported, or was it always just an emergent phenomenon born out of loopholes in the systems? Should players be rewarded greatly for commonly little risk? How many players would find the game less fun with out the loopholes that make it possible? Wouldn't increased risk by gankers encourage more discriminate risk assessment?

try to find a game you don't feel the need to cry about, scrub. the majority of EVE players agree with the Devs that ganking was far too easy and rewarded brainless activity at the expense of others who had little recourse.

there are other games that require actual skills as a player and have a harsh environment with no safety zones. If you want hardcore pvp with full loot and no safety zones, I would suggest you try Darkfall. It would prob chew you up and spit you out though, being a cowardly high-sec ganker, the type who fears real pvp.

So if the price of exhumers tripled tomorrow due to some 0.0 moon goo drama, would CCP have to triple their EHP to compensate?

So let me get this strait? Griefers go out and gank a bunch of miners. Say they should adapt and tank up. While they themselves aren't subject to the same expectation, and then when CCP evens the playing field. Instead of taking their own advice, "adapt", they pour into the forums and qq in thier own turn, all while saying that it was miner qq that 'casue the problem.

Here's an alternative. If there had been no problem with miners being mass ganked in the first place, there wouldn't have been a miner buff and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

There's plenty of opportunities out there without your precious miner loot pinata. I'm sure, being so smart and adaptable as you are, that you can manage.

This is 'cause and effect. Butterflies, hurricanes and all that jazz.

Buck up, soldier.

But price of the hull used in ganking means everything?

So, you don't have to pay for hull and modules you use...

What other buffs you want?

Well, you said you don't have to pay for ships you use.

I think what we need to do is find a way to push Hulk prices above half a billion, along with the other exhumers. Then have another Hulkageddon, and see what comes out of that. I have twenty bucks on carebears whining about ganking being too cheap, but then again, I'm a fool for familiarity.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2017737#post2017737

Please read the quote again. I meant the hull ganker uses not the exhumer...

In this case "their" = ganker's

You're even wrong about what he said. He said they don't buy the hulls of the gankers.

That's because "they" pay a flat rate, not for the hulls.

Here.

And yet gankers use that sponsor money to get those hulls. If they can't gank 10 exhumers with 100M worth of hulls it means it's unprofitable...

Actually we can grasp it. We just can't figure why you'd want to "risk" so much for 20m?

You can make that in 20 minutes or less if you stayed "home".

So stop talking **** about it being profitable/unprofitable. Use one of the "other" motivations as a reason and just do it ffs.

I got a feeling I said something like, if ganking is fun, just say so and have done with it - oh, about 3 weeks ago!

Nah, we gotta trawl through 40 pages of watching grown men cry... men all the new guys used to look up to. Nope, all they see is lamenting and tear shedding from the "bad guys".

Goons gone soft. FA gone soft. You're all soft.

sad. really sad. I fear for Eve.

If 0.0 gone soft. What hope those poor pubbies from highsec?

Darth, join a highsec mining corp and gank +¬m from within. Absolutely FREE kills. 100% profit - NO lost ship. Few alts. Keep on it. You'll make a bloody fortune.

Now MUTLIPLY that by 10,000, 20,000 - whatever.

THAT'S adapting.


(ofc, not wanting to be roflstomped on this - I've been away - I'm assuming corp kills still legal?)

Wait are people SERIOUSLY complaining that its too hard to gank profitably in EVE? Are you... are you even playing the same GAME as me? What is wrong with you idiots that you cannot figure out how to gank and make money, it is literally the simplest thing to do in this game.

The trouble with this whining that I have is, you can kill Mackinaw's cheap. You just can't do it solo or with your alt. You need a small group. 8 or 10 T1 Desi will take down a macki and for next to no ISK. You **** and moan about miners and all you want is to emulate them at a different task.

EVE is what EVE has always been. Gank beat Tank. Always has, still does. Ganking miners is now true to forum. You need to actually GANK them though.

You can train an awoxing thrasher on a trial account in less than a day, there are literally dozens of corporations that will take you in with no questions asked. Never underestimate how stupid people are.

Wait so its now impossible to gank ONE shiptype without making a profit and you think this is cause for a 40+ page thread? If you want to gank Macks do it and swallow the loss, have an alt in null farming complexes and you can make back a ship loss in an hour or two. I think what other people mean by "adapt" is "find a different target", it is still stupidly easy to find valuable targets to gank in highsec with little to no effort (hint - a cargo scanning alt takes less than 12 hours to train).

So if you can do that why don't you go and do it?

I'm fairly sure you can still manage to figure out a way to make a profit from ganking Macks, for example one post above yours mentioned the protection scheme. Gank the Mack, eat the loss, then con the mark into giving you money for protection. Easy mode.

Mining bots were a massive problem before the buffs, they remain a massive problem now. You are in the CFC don't you try and pretend for a SECOND that hulkageddon was ANYTHING to do with removing bots from EVE, you and I both know that is bullshit propaganda.

So what the good **** are you complaining about. You have an activity you can do that makes you a profit. Stop doing the activity that is making you a loss and start doing the activity that makes you a profit. This is the basis of the advice "adapt" that you have been given. Good god Bat Country need to be purged.

I swear to god I am going to find your bot and I am going to awox the crap out of it.

The same holds true for mining. Gank them enough they stop doing it. CCP chose to keep mining as active content. I support the decision.

It's AWOX Darth. Corp kill. FREE of charge. 100% profit.

Now let's take FA and Goons - what, 15,000?? I'm guessing w/o checking.

AT ONE mack each - that's 15,000 macks. Now just 1 more each, go on, for the corp.... You can do it.

30,000 kills and they are as good as guaranteed kills and FREE.

Do it smart. Assimilate. Infiltrate. Do it slow....

Then BANG.

Corps will shut down, no recruiting, no-one will trust anybody. Chaos and anarchy.

The miners will absolutely fn riot!!!

Because I know the difference between reproc, market manipulation and mining profits. I also will hold to the firm belief that the only ones absorbing the barge losses were Bots and null sec corp Ops. Solo miners in high sec were not 'enjoying' enough of a spike to adjust for the loss of a Hulk and those were the only ones being targeted by the ganking that was removed,

always the same closed-minded no-lifers baltec and pipa porto arguing with everyone everyday.

Yes, they are better off.

Most miners don't mine Ice. Price is down because of Bots. Mineral prices are spiked because of Drone region nerf and Meta 0 loot removal. High sec Miners never got the benefit of that spike because they had to sink it all back in to new Hulks. Now they might actually get to make a little ISK and keep it.

Devs have already said miner ganking was never supposed to be profitable.

try harder to split some hairs, scrub.

Why is it always the same no-life losers defending ganking like pipa porto and baltec?

Why do I get the feeling there is a mod deleting posts.

Show yourself!

thats what I said. You have to wonder about the intelligence and "skill" of people who prefer their "pvp" to consist of gangbanging helpless targets that don't stand a chance. Hilarious how they like to claim their victims are the stupid ones. EVE to me seems like the last bastion of the stupid "pvper". Now they are flooding the forums with a river of tears that their riskless, brainless "pvp" is being taken away.

Ganker and canflipper tears so delicious.