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Senhouse
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Posted - 2005.03.11 21:48:00 -
[1]
It just makes me angry when people are complaining about the lack of players in 0.0 .....
If CCP opened up access to 0.0 and didnt have the choke points that are camped 24x7 then of course people would come into 0.0 ....
YOU 0.0 GATE CAMPING *snip* ruin the game for everyone that tries to enter 0.0 ...
For example - the other day I went into 0.0 in a shuttle. The usual gate camping *snip* were waiting but I easily got passed them only to be chased 10 systems by a guy in an interceptor that couldnt even catch me! Of course I couldnt get out again but you see my point. No questions were asked when I jumped through - just immediate lock ons. What incentive do people have to go mining or fighting in 0.0 if there is absolutely no *snip* way to get your ships out again?!?!?
Simple answer to get people coming into 0.0 - "STOP CAMPING THE ENTRY AND EXIT POINTS AND GANKING ANYONE WHO TRIES TO ENTER!". Till that day, most of us are going to stay in Empire space where we can actually do stuff, make money and fight others...
Maybe remove the alliances altogether? Or most defintely put many more entrances to 0.0 so the LAMERS cant camp it.
Flame away - I dont care. U lot have ruined it for yourselves - dont blame CCP. 
Please do not bypass the profanity filter - Jacques Archambault |
Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2005.03.11 21:54:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 11/03/2005 21:57:20
Its actually not the alliances that complain about chokepoints.
Alliances have two options:
1: Camp chokepoints to create a somewhat safe regions for them to live in.
2: Size down their claimed space to increase the overall active alliance members in that smaller part.
With the sucky player owned stations that only have 1 or 2 services Alliances dont have much of a choice because they would need all the PCS in the region just to be able to build/research/refine and repair.
Also if your region has npc stations then you wont be getting anyone out of the region because they can just sit inside these stations until the day CCP devs stop nerfing stuff 
Edit: And when posting in the forums it might be smarter to not show everyone someone recently ganked your ship (Prolly not a shuttle but something loaded with valueable items) when trying to fly trough a chokepoint.
It makes you look silly
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Larno
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Posted - 2005.03.11 21:54:00 -
[3]
Gate camping isn't the problem. The problem is that there is not enough reward in 0.0 compared to empire. As for getting past gate camps:
1. Use cloaking device/covert ops.
2. Make insta-BMs with this cloaked ship.
3. Fill your low slots with WCS.
4. Check map for people in the systems you want to pass.
5. Get an interceptor yourself if you dont need to take a BS into 0.0
With an interceptor + nanofibers + bookmarks it is impossible to get caught in a gate camp unless there is a mobile warp disruptor (and you can check map for players in system). If you cannot be bothered to make bookmarks out into 0.0 space the you can't really expect to have a nice ride out there.
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Valan
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Posted - 2005.03.11 21:59:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Larno
Gate camping isn't the problem. The problem is that there is not enough reward in 0.0 compared to empire. As for getting past gate camps:
1. Use cloaking device/covert ops.
2. Make insta-BMs with this cloaked ship.
3. Fill your low slots with WCS.
4. Check map for people in the systems you want to pass.
5. Get an interceptor yourself if you dont need to take a BS into 0.0
With an interceptor + nanofibers + bookmarks it is impossible to get caught in a gate camp unless there is a mobile warp disruptor (and you can check map for players in system). If you cannot be bothered to make bookmarks out into 0.0 space the you can't really expect to have a nice ride out there.
So once you are past the gate what the hell is he going to do with that ship set up. Unless he risks bumping into alliance members fitting in a station. Even if he manages to mine bistot how the hell does he get it refined and out. Most alliances ban the selling of items in their space to prevent interlopers from equipping themselves. With good skills he maybe be able to hunt with a blockade set up.
I know people who have instas and are stuck behind lines with hunting set ups, takes some doing to get out of a well organised alliance.
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Senhouse
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Posted - 2005.03.11 22:00:00 -
[5]
Why should people have to create insta-warps?!
Plus what possible reason would anyone want to go into 0.0 in an interceptor? People want the minerals that can only be mined in 0.0 so u would need to take a cargo hauler - this is currently impossible to do with the amount of gate camping going on.
Only thing CCP could do is simply add many more routes into 0.0 making it impossible to have large gate camps involved on all the exits.
THEN you would get people in miners, etc with escorts risking 0.0 attacks as there is a reasonable chance of being able to get out again with your haul of ore. |
Super Duder
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Posted - 2005.03.11 22:02:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Super Duder on 11/03/2005 22:02:47
Originally by: Larno
With an interceptor + nanofibers + bookmarks it is impossible to get caught in a gate camp unless there is a mobile warp disruptor (and you can check map for players in system). If you cannot be bothered to make bookmarks out into 0.0 space the you can't really expect to have a nice ride out there.
I think he wants to make money, not just tour it. CCP needs less empire to 0.0 choke points. Which is something they are doing.
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Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2005.03.11 22:04:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Valan
So once you are past the gate what the hell is he going to do with that ship set up. Unless he risks bumping into alliance members fitting in a station. Even if he manages to mine bistot how the hell does he get it refined and out. Most alliances ban the selling of items in their space to prevent interlopers from equipping themselves. With good skills he maybe be able to hunt with a blockade set up.
I know people who have instas and are stuck behind lines with hunting set ups, takes some doing to get out of a well organised alliance.
Obviously you pick a region with NPC stations and you bring your own equipment.
Getting PE 5 + BPCs and getting mins from mining or hunting or running missions is an option.
Using an Amarr ship so you dont need ammo works.
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
DARTHEXIDOUS
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Posted - 2005.03.11 22:14:00 -
[8]
He He He shuttle hey i'll have to look out for you then if you need escorting out of 0.0 it wont be a problem.
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Senhouse
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Posted - 2005.03.11 22:24:00 -
[9]
 I found it hilarious that this guy in his interceptor couldnt catch me no matter how much he tried
Thats when I realised how much fun 0.0 could be as there are cruiser NPCs at the stargates and BS in the asteroid belts!
In empire we are forced to do agent missions which I find boring or fight the occassional cruiser in an asteroid belt.
We dont have an option to go fight the bigger NPCs in 0.0 as we cant get our big ships through the gate campers - unless we join an alliance which a lot of us dont want to do.
True.... we could buy a safe passage pass from an alliance... but this just ends up with your ship being ganked and then the people apologising after it is too late. Just plain lame.
And this bullcrap about people camping the gate to protect their space from other alliances/hostiles is rubbish. I was in a shuttle and was immedietely targetted when I jumped into 0.0. Maybe they havent been in a proper one-on-one ship battle for so long that they believe even a shuttle can be dangerous....
As you may have gathered, I have no respect whatsoever for these people |
Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2005.03.11 22:43:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Famine Aligher''ri on 11/03/2005 22:45:17
Personaly I left 0.0 due to not enough enemies in the area. It's due to active gate camping in all major systems and it's also due to the fact that people in 0.0 only go there where there alliance or friends are. Noone jumps 60 hops in a fleet just to say "Hey". Unless they're some elite anti-pirate squad. Take FoE new alliance for example. It's typical for FoE to camp the "P3/Obe" gate. Which is the entrance to 0.0. Good spot to camp, but it's been camped for sooooo long everyone know that there is a warp bubble waiting for you. Which is not really the problem. It's the fact that it's nothing but FoE members in one area. They might get 1 kill every 3 hours or so.
So then you got wars. Alliance wars ect. This is what makes being in 0.0 all about. "Yeah we own this space, you will die! Meet me in Empire".
So if you don't war with anyone. You're pretty much stuck jumping all over hell trying to catch someone rat hunting if not just camping one gate all day. To many people are pussies and stick together in one spot. If you keep recruiting so many in your little controlled space. Then you wont have enemies to kill. Unless you're lucky enough to have a war or a good anti-pirate corp that fights you back.
I moved to empire piratry due to those key points. I don't want to hide behind a big alliance. I don't want to have so many friends that I can't have any kills or deaths. I don't want to be killed 1080280 to 1. I want solo fights, solo honorable deaths, ransoms and isk. First day to 0.1-0.4 movement. I got 12 kills. It was the best fun I have ever had. Even when 0.0 is getting kills. (100 to 1). So if you don't like 0.0 and or you want it better. You have to move to 0.1 - 0.4 security systems. Just the facts of life.
-The Frig-
Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri
-The Frig- |
Valan
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Posted - 2005.03.11 22:54:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Originally by: Valan
So once you are past the gate what the hell is he going to do with that ship set up. Unless he risks bumping into alliance members fitting in a station. Even if he manages to mine bistot how the hell does he get it refined and out. Most alliances ban the selling of items in their space to prevent interlopers from equipping themselves. With good skills he maybe be able to hunt with a blockade set up.
I know people who have instas and are stuck behind lines with hunting set ups, takes some doing to get out of a well organised alliance.
Obviously you pick a region with NPC stations and you bring your own equipment.
Getting PE 5 + BPCs and getting mins from mining or hunting or running missions is an option.
Using an Amarr ship so you dont need ammo works.
I get the point but if an alliance leaves a factory slot open I would be surprised. All labs, factories and offices were controlled in the alliance my old corp belonged to. Even when corps pulled out like ours we made sure all the station assets went to the right people. There were multiple stations per system, maybe other alliances are a little more slack but I doubt it.
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.03.11 23:03:00 -
[12]
territorial alliances = the enemy
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Sergeant Spot
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Posted - 2005.03.12 00:57:00 -
[13]
Getting in and out of 0.0 space is easy if you are in a nimble ship and have good insta jumps, unless you hit a warp bubble.
With extreme paranoia and a good scout helping (in addition to the insta jumps), less nimble ships can be got in and out, but there is risk.
But having said that, for many players the choke points make it effectively impossible to get in and out in anything but nimble ships. (I'm my own scout, as I use 2 computers)
I've been doing some 0.0 hunting recently, and I'm mildly disappointed. While the loot is better than empire, its not what I hoped for. Having said that, if I had a friendly station to work out of, the loot would be hands down better than empire. Hunting in 0.0 is much more profitable than level 4 missions IF, I stress 'IF', you have a friendly station to work out of. Or at least it seems this way to me. (I'm sure others will disagree).
If you don't have a friendly station in 0.0 to work out of, you can still rack up bounties faster than in empire, but you'd be abandoning a lot of loot, and logics in a pain. When the risks and trouble of getting in and out are added in, Level 4 missions in empire look like a better use of time if you are gathering wealth.
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Neamus
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Posted - 2005.03.12 00:58:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Neamus on 12/03/2005 01:05:33
Originally by: Senhouse
It just makes me angry when people are complaining about the lack of players in 0.0 .....
If CCP opened up access to 0.0 and didnt have the choke points that are camped 24x7 then of course people would come into 0.0 ....
YOU 0.0 GATE CAMPING MORONS ruin the game for everyone that tries to enter 0.0 ...
For example - the other day I went into 0.0 in a shuttle. The usual gate camping morons were waiting but I easily got passed them only to be chased 10 systems by a guy in an interceptor that couldnt even catch me! Of course I couldnt get out again but you see my point. No questions were asked when I jumped through - just immediate lock ons. What incentive do people have to go mining or fighting in 0.0 if there is absolutely no f*ckin way to get your ships out again?!?!?
Simple answer to get people coming into 0.0 - "STOP CAMPING THE ENTRY AND EXIT POINTS AND GANKING ANYONE WHO TRIES TO ENTER!". Till that day, most of us are going to stay in Empire space where we can actually do stuff, make money and fight others...
Maybe remove the alliances altogether? Or most defintely put many more entrances to 0.0 so the LAMERS cant camp it.
Flame away - I dont care. U lot have ruined it for yourselves - dont blame CCP.
Meheee, some of that i agree with.. Some i dont..
CCP are doing fine. They have a plan, so far its been a very good game and i want to see where they take it.
(my 2 cents( No.. Fk it, I'm British, Pence ))
Keep going CCP, get what you have to out of the way. When you have finished with the necessities show us what you wanted the game to be like, before you became distracted.
Self Explanatory
Dont take to long, by nature people are fickle...
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Reite
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Posted - 2005.03.12 01:52:00 -
[15]
Well, then u must be really slow doing missions, cause i could earn more on lvl 4 missions with a basic apoc + my alt in basic raven than my 8xmodulated pulse, 1 commander heat sink, all named/officer/commander equipment on a apoc which is the best ship for sanshas.. Isnt that strange..
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Archbishop
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Posted - 2005.03.12 03:05:00 -
[16]
Quote:
"Gate camping isn't the problem. The problem is that there is not enough reward in 0.0 compared to empire. As for getting past gate camps:"
Most of the really rich people in this game seem to live in 0.0 space. They have all the rare ores, all the uber NPC's, what else is there?
I have a friend who sells me a ton of zyd a week. He flies up weekly, says "how much", usually he has 50-100k zyd and the same amount of mega.
Tell me how thats "to little" money? Thats a ton of money.
I agree dump the chokepoints. Make the alliances actually "protect" their area rather then just gank everyone at a gate. Also help them by beefing up the POS with workable hangars, ship arrays and other goodies so they can make a living there.
0.0 isn't for everyone but the original poster is right that with chokepoints its too often for no one.
Archbishop
VISIT THE PIE HOMEPAGE & FORUMS
PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2005.03.12 03:24:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Archbishop
Quote:
"Gate camping isn't the problem. The problem is that there is not enough reward in 0.0 compared to empire. As for getting past gate camps:"
Most of the really rich people in this game seem to live in 0.0 space. They have all the rare ores, all the uber NPC's, what else is there?
I have a friend who sells me a ton of zyd a week. He flies up weekly, says "how much", usually he has 50-100k zyd and the same amount of mega.
Tell me how thats "to little" money? Thats a ton of money.
I agree dump the chokepoints. Make the alliances actually "protect" their area rather then just gank everyone at a gate. Also help them by beefing up the POS with workable hangars, ship arrays and other goodies so they can make a living there.
0.0 isn't for everyone but the original poster is right that with chokepoints its too often for no one.
Archbishop
Yeah I agree with what the slave lord said. You got rare ore, bs chains, and pirate ganking. Don't I wish I could mine crok in empire.
-The Frig-
Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri
-The Frig- |
Nafri
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Posted - 2005.03.12 03:39:00 -
[18]
Gate Camping is not a problem, it only shows the problem
its like feavers isnt your desease, only showing that your ill
gatecamping shows only that PvP is soooo borked
Wanna fly with me?
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jbob2000
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Posted - 2005.03.12 04:14:00 -
[19]
Quote:
True.... we could buy a safe passage pass from an alliance... but this just ends up with your ship being ganked and then the people apologising after it is too late. Just plain lame.
doesnt work. ive tried with stain and they still blew me up claiming that they have to shoot all bs's no matter what.
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CANADIAN |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.03.12 06:20:00 -
[20]
I do find it ironic that people who created alliances with the sole goal to shut out other people from 0.0 space and to horde the npcs/ore/isk to be made there are now crying bloody murder because people are sticking to making a living in empire doing level 4 missions.
While I'm all for adding more things to do in 0.0, and getting rid of highways, instajumps, ect, people crying about agent running is well, hilarious.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Jasmine Constantine
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Posted - 2005.03.12 06:25:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Jim Raynor
I do find it ironic that people who created alliances with the sole goal to shut out other people from 0.0 space and to horde the npcs/ore/isk to be made there are now crying bloody murder because people are sticking to making a living in empire doing level 4 missions.
While I'm all for adding more things to do in 0.0, and getting rid of highways, instajumps, ect, people crying about agent running is well, hilarious.
Yeah its pretty funny.
Star Fraction
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.03.12 08:54:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Senhouse
We dont have an option to go fight the bigger NPCs in 0.0 as we cant get our big ships through the gate campers - unless we join an alliance which a lot of us dont want to do.
Don't talk about what you do not understand.
It is trivial to get a BS into 0.0 (using no WCS). You just have to wait for when the area isnt very populated. Whinge all you like about gate camps, but even if the chokes werent camped you still have a chance of getting caught by an inty squad at a belt or just travelling. 0.0 means PVP. If you want to avoid PVP then you need to mine/NPC when not many people are on, and that pretty much means just avoiding Euro prime time.
Im not in a big alliance, in fact my alliance doesnt claim space at all. Instead we go where we want in 0.0, and kill anyone who tries to stop us. We will help anyone who wants to get into 0.0 with intel and instajumps.
NPCing isnt really worth it in 0.0 at the moment unless you are lucky and get some good loot (I have corp mates who have made billions from 0.0 loot), because level 4's are a lot safer and give comparable reward.
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Pollie
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Posted - 2005.03.12 09:34:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Pollie on 12/03/2005 09:34:18
Agree with original post tbh, take out the chokes
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Karol Kei
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Posted - 2005.03.12 09:42:00 -
[24]
Jim Raynor summed up one more issue pretty nicely.
Alliance members are annoyed because their plan worked. So now they want to save the cake and eat it too. They want to force people to bang their heads to their blockades indefinately. Since people are not doing that voluntarily, they need to be forcedby CCP. Bu hu.
I am all for ideas introduced in all of the "more content" -threads by Jasmine, DigitalCommunist etc. It's just that more is needed than just n3rfing the empire so alliance people can feel uber at their gates laughing at the boom caused by yet another "nublet" trying to do something other than suck scord. All the while their carebears suck ark or chain npc's in complete safety. And rant about risk / reward and how they in some magical way have "deserved it" to be uber and it's only right that the "nublets" are there mostly for the amusement. Because "they r a alliance" like one gentleman put it in the other thread. That was a gem, btw.
Just make Jasmine, Digi etc their own forum, hire them to ISD, and give them a month to come up with t3h plan to make empire space burn. In a way that is fun for all of us.
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Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2005.03.12 10:11:00 -
[25]
I don't know about you guys but I don't see 50 people camping 1 gate. How hard is it to clean a gate if your corp actually stuck together and took these sheep out. The guy who posted from his small alliance seems to understand it. Why don't you?
-The Frig-
Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri
-The Frig- |
Shidhe
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Posted - 2005.03.12 16:52:00 -
[26]
Hmm ... Interesting post - and largely correct IMO.
The jump gares are changing - I just hope that CCP is going to be sufficiently drastic in pruning the choke points to make it work. I can live with a general increase in lawlessness (and pirates ), as long as the instadeath systems are removed.
As for the 0.0 areas themselves:
1) Increase player station services
2) Make some curious, unique and useful systems
3) A small amount of rare ores in empire roid fields
4) Make player stations require trade goods (or the efficiencies decrease sharply)
5) Make sure that PVE in 0.0 gives some things that level 4 agents dont
6) Agents on player stations?
7) Storyline about the population of planets in 0.0?
* Why (3) - ans to remove the monopoly on certain minerals that is allowing alliances to try to cut themselves off from the rest of Eve and isolate their areas. Make them compete economically.
* Why (4) - ans to make alliances allow traders in - and to provide an isk sink in the economy - and what are the crew on a POS meant to eat anyway? Ice?
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Demian Sky
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Posted - 2005.03.12 17:17:00 -
[27]
I think the difficulty of getting past a gate camp is very real--- Okay, so I've personally been in 0.0 for over a year and a half now, and I haven't been blown up by a gate camp in 6 months, but we're not talking about me, OR others that are experienced 0.0 players. This post is more about new people trying to get their claws in 0.0, and for them, 13 easy steps to running a blocade isn't necessarily so easy for them.
Sure, it seems easy for us old guns, but for people that have only heard rumors and hearsay about 0.0, even WITHOUT 21/7 gate camps, 0.0 is a daunting environment. I think we need to take this into consideration.
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MadGaz
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Posted - 2005.03.12 17:53:00 -
[28]
Oh nos alt whining.
1) Dont like 0.0 gate camping??? DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
2) You're an alt, they get shot alot.
3) 0.0 will never be safe, even with all the whining that random people cant go there and mine veld safely.
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Valan
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Posted - 2005.03.12 18:34:00 -
[29]
Originally by: MadGaz
Oh nos alt whining.
1) Dont like 0.0 gate camping??? DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
2) You're an alt, they get shot alot.
3) 0.0 will never be safe, even with all the whining that random people cant go there and mine veld safely.
The real point behind the thread is that CCP, PvPers and alliance members in general across many threads have raised the issue that there are not many people in 0.0. Now all the advanced players, innovative players and EVE addicts can get around this with set ups, tactics and such like. Are these players the bulk of EVE probably not.
Your average player thinks a gate camp is a death sentence when in actual fact most gate camps are ineffectual. The original post blames the campers, but camping is one of the few tactics available to players to engage in combat. So even though there are flaws in the original arguement it raises the issue of getting more people into 0.0. Increasing access points to 0.0 will obviously allow greater access to 0.0.
I believe CCP are working on this right now. So despite common misconceptions on one side and the 'all carebears must die' on the other side. The issue raised is a valid one recognised by CCP and is being dealt with. Although point 1) of your post has merit.
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Kira Natel
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Posted - 2005.03.12 18:40:00 -
[30]
IMO I think that many empire players PERCEIVE that CCP encourages ganking /griefing or at least turn a blind eye to it. So why bother to go to 0.0?
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