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Pirates should lose insurance.

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Miner's Bane	Posted - 2005.03.16 03:56:00 - [61] Originally by: ALTNAME This game is run by pirates(ccp), they are constantly cuddling, and will in about 2 months make this game nothing but pirate and alliance warfare, as small corps and individuals will no longer be able to play. I sincerely hope this was sarcasm, or you are one stupid bastard. Let me pull out the death star of counterpoints to this argument: LEVEL 4 MISSIONS IN 1.0 SPACE. I'd say that perhaps if you whine enough you can get more stuff moved to empire, but lets be honest with ourselves - CCP has already moved 90% of the game content to 1.0 systems, and the other 10% is player-driven. So theres really nothing else you can whine for. ------------------------------------------------------------------
Lorth	Posted - 2005.03.16 05:07:00 - [62] Originally by: Miner's Bane Originally by: ALTNAME This game is run by pirates(ccp), they are constantly cuddling, and will in about 2 months make this game nothing but pirate and alliance warfare, as small corps and individuals will no longer be able to play. I sincerely hope this was sarcasm, or you are one stupid bastard. Let me pull out the death star of counterpoints to this argument: LEVEL 4 MISSIONS IN 1.0 SPACE. I'd say that perhaps if you whine enough you can get more stuff moved to empire, but lets be honest with ourselves - CCP has already moved 90% of the game content to 1.0 systems, and the other 10% is player-driven. So theres really nothing else you can whine for. It wasn't sarcasm, and no matter how much you point out the flaws in his argument he'll continue to post incoherant rants. Do it enought and he'll resort to personal insualts, such is the ways of a carebear scorned, you have been warned.
Iaukea Asarnil	Posted - 2005.03.16 05:39:00 - [63] Originally by: 3rdD Dave Edited by: 3rdD Dave on 15/03/2005 16:32:07 If you decide to become a pirate and lower you sec rating you forfeit your insurance and / or reduce your clones skills? Would make risk / reward more interesting at least for pirates and ppl hunting them. Ignoring the usual ranting and insults whenever anyone suggests making things more difficult for pirates, I see what you're saying and it even makes sense from an RP point of view (what kind of sane insurance company insures habitual criminals very likely to repeatedly die?) but it's just not practical. Firstly, alliance players still get insurance, despite often behaving in a similar manner (and I'm IN an alliance); secondly, it makes the risks TOO steep. Penalties for losing a fight should be painful but not crippling. From an RP point of view, it might be a good idea to establish a seperate company for insuring pirates (the Bandit's Guild or something) since it makes no sense for it to even be legal to insure a habitual criminal but that's really just window-dressing. I can think of some changes that would improve piracy though: The introduction of a proper ransom facility: complete with coding in that paying the ransom grants you immunity from being shot up (wildly OOC yes but unlikely to work otherwise. Pirates are habitual criminals, why should we trust you to let us go even if we do pay the ransom?). If pirates are willing to use the system instead of ganking and ask reasonable amounts (if you ask 5mil for an empty hauler, the victim will tell you to blow, ask 1/4mil and they'll probably pay), that could help. The introduction of some kind of underground gossip function: The idea is that even criminals form some kind of community and communities talk. So someone gets the information that hauler company X is moving a couple haulers full of zydrine through system Y on Monday. They don't have the resources to take on the doubtless hefty escort but they can then share that info with others, maybe even sell it to them. Also allows for pirates to be hired as industrial espionage/sabotage (that guys killing my inty selling business, here's 100mil to go and keep him busy for a while) Introduce distinct and entirely seperate pirate agents and missions: Similar to the above, some more senior crook offers you the chance to do a job for him. Rewards in the same way as Empire agents (although rather more cuthroat and untrustworthy, these ARE pirates after all). The elimination of logging in combat: This has to be the most abused exploit in the game and partly responsible for the rise of gate-ganking. Having to deal with occasional CONCORD sweeps of the 0.0 areas around Empire: Purely from an RP point of view and may not work since it's literally occured to me as I've been typing. Make the map for 0.0 far less reliable: The Empire map should be reliable, that's a mostly safe and heavily travelled area, out on the wild frontier where virtually anything can happen, the map should be vastly less reliable, information should be vague, old or incomplete. _____________________________________________ The most pessimistic sod in Eve, and proud of it The end of the universe....coming SOON[tm] Beware of geeks bearing gifs
soap man	Posted - 2005.03.16 09:48:00 - [64] bad idea. pirating is already a non profit proffession and needs some love.
wayz	Posted - 2005.03.16 09:55:00 - [65] Edited by: wayz on 16/03/2005 09:56:58 Originally by: 3rdD Dave Edited by: 3rdD Dave on 15/03/2005 16:32:07 If you decide to become a pirate and lower you sec rating you forfeit your insurance and / or reduce your clones skills? Would make risk / reward more interesting at least for pirates and ppl hunting them. Actually funnily enough I do agree with this guy to an extent. I mean it does seem pretty strange to me that players with uber low sec cant go into empire yet they can still buy insurance. Pirates dont need insurance, pirate corfps should take care of that. They did something similar in ultima online and I think it made teh game more interesting tbh. but heres the big however...... open up 0.0 more, get more people in there, kill the choke points, make pirating a challenge with more potential rewards instead of a perpetual one system gate camp. The whole pvp system needs work to make it more viable again. oh actually come to think of it heres a sweet idea! to counter the cripple a bit, make agents that only players with a sick low sec can use that give out nicer rewards like pirate faction ships ect. Make losing a fight hurt like hell but give a good reason to wanna be a pirate Wayz: cmon X hurry up I aint got all day! Twisted Xistance: oh yeah lol.... anyway, you have got all day you benefit scrounging jobbless schmoe! Wayz: too chey :)
Avon	Posted - 2005.03.16 10:11:00 - [66] Originally by: wayz I mean it does seem pretty strange to me that players with uber low sec cant go into empire yet they can still buy insurance. Pirates dont need insurance, pirate corfps should take care of that. NEWSFLASH!!! Every player can go into Empire. 0.1 -> 0.4 is still Empire. ______________________________________________ Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience.
3rdD Dave	Posted - 2005.03.16 10:35:00 - [67] Edited by: 3rdD Dave on 16/03/2005 10:36:04 Originally by: Noriath Edited by: Noriath on 16/03/2005 01:05:16 I think it's ridiculous that Pirates have absoloutly no real consequences to their actions. Low security standing doesn't mean jack since you can just have an alt go into empire for you if you ever have to... Basicly Pirates get all the rewards and non of the risk. Can a hauler pilot insure 50mil of goods? Nope, those are gone, but if someone blows up the pirate - oops, didn't really hurt him. Pirates are the worst whiny suckers anyways, if there was acctually any risk of being captured and brought to justice and some serious consequences to a life of lawlessness half of the Pirates wouldn't even exist because they simply don't have the balls to face any consequences to their actions. They call other people carebears, but they are the real carebears. Afterall, nobody ever said they don't Pirates to be able to atack them, I for one just want to be atacked by a real hardass pirate who isn't afraid of facing terrible punishment if caught, and not by some snotty sucker who wouldn't be a pirate if it was acctually a dangerous life to live... My sentiments exactly.. miners mayber carebears,( what ever the ** that is ) but Pirates are the real whingers here. Afraid to take any of the real risk in EVE. If there so good at PVP then losing insurance wouldnt bother them. I guess Pirates are Carebears by-proxy. Quote:** Actually funnily enough I do agree with this guy to an extent. I mean it does seem pretty strange to me that players with uber low sec cant go into empire yet they can still buy insurance. Pirates dont need insurance, pirate corfps should take care of that. They did something similar in ultima online and I think it made teh game more interesting tbh. but heres the big however...... open up 0.0 more, get more people in there, kill the choke points, make pirating a challenge with more potential rewards instead of a perpetual one system gate camp. The whole pvp system needs work to make it more viable again. oh actually come to think of it heres a sweet idea! to counter the cripple a bit, make agents that only players with a sick low sec can use that give out nicer rewards like pirate faction ships ect. Make losing a fight hurt like hell but give a good reason to wanna be a pirate Wayz: cmon X hurry up I aint got all day! Twisted Xistance: oh yeah lol.... anyway, you have got all day you benefit scrounging jobbless schmoe! Wayz: too chey :) Exactly. Lawbreakers getting insurance is just stupid.
Typherin laidai	Posted - 2005.03.16 10:46:00 - [68] Originally by: 3rdD Dave Edited by: 3rdD Dave on 15/03/2005 16:32:07 If you decide to become a pirate and lower you sec rating you forfeit your insurance and / or reduce your clones skills? Would make risk / reward more interesting at least for pirates and ppl hunting them. So pirating has no risks eh get a clue Typherin Typherin LaiDai Care Negotitations Expert level 5 'Give me a position of power and I'l abuse it in an instant'
Noriath	Posted - 2005.03.16 11:50:00 - [69] Hey let's face it, pirates in Eve are whiny bastards mostly, they can't take to lose once in a while and as soon as someone says there should be harsher penulties for breaking the law they go on the barricades and complain. If being a Pirate would acctually mean living dangerously outside of the law I would have a lot more respect for pirates. But it doesn't. Alts can do everything you ever have to go into empire space for, and if a Pirate dies he can just cash in insurance and be back in about an hour at a loss of maybe 30-40 mil depending on how expensive his equipment was... Plus it's not even like Pirates die a lot, since they don't pick fights they can possibly lose...
ollobrains	Posted - 2005.03.16 11:55:00 - [70] Allowing them access to insurance payout simply raises demand for ships within the market which is good otherwise there would be a glut of battleship and assult and specialised cruisers and frigates and the market wuodl go down in a spin with battleships being cheaper than shuttles
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.03.16 12:13:00 - [71] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 16/03/2005 12:13:13 Originally by: ollobrains Allowing them access to insurance payout simply raises demand for ships within the market which is good otherwise there would be a glut of battleship and assult and specialised cruisers and frigates and the market wuodl go down in a spin with battleships being cheaper than shuttles yeah, right. Ollo, after reading your last spread of postings in various threads on various issues and not being able to make much sense of them other then getting the faint idea they simply don't make any by design, I respectfully suggest you refrain from offering solutions to problems that are: 1. not being discussed in the thread 2. are imaginary 3. aren issues were you lack any knowledge yet. Not that I don't like your obvious interest in game mechanic and balance issues, I do. But I personally think that offering an opinion bring some responsibility of acutally putting some knowledge and thought into them. Discussions are generally not served by distractions from the subject, or beelines towards impossible/incorrect solutions or problems. I'd advise you to read these threads, look up old information about the subjects and ask around ingame alot. In some time your grasp of the subjects will have improved so that people start looking to your posts as worthwhile tor ead because of the thought put into them rather then becaus of entertainment value derived from cluelessnes. Not that I'm saying I know everything or that my opinion is by default the right one, but I do try and assure I offer something worth reading and thinking about. Good luck, sincerely. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Typherin laidai	Posted - 2005.03.16 12:43:00 - [72] Originally by: Noriath Hey let's face it, pirates in Eve are whiny bastards mostly, they can't take to lose once in a while and as soon as someone says there should be harsher penulties for breaking the law they go on the barricades and complain. If being a Pirate would acctually mean living dangerously outside of the law I would have a lot more respect for pirates. But it doesn't. Alts can do everything you ever have to go into empire space for, and if a Pirate dies he can just cash in insurance and be back in about an hour at a loss of maybe 30-40 mil depending on how expensive his equipment was... Plus it's not even like Pirates die a lot, since they don't pick fights they can possibly lose... You cant shove all pie-rats into one group ... the same could be said about being cowardly in all areas of the games players. im fairly new to the whole pirating scene ... but so far all the kills ive made have been solo. and ive engaged most people that want to fight... Havent allways won but meh ** happens ... how is that cowardly ? And yes ive attacked haulers and ships that didn't stand a chance.. O well. thats a risk you take in low sec space. your comments are retarded. get a clue Typherin Typherin LaiDai Care Negotitations Expert level 5** 'Give me a position of power and I'l abuse it in an instant'
Noriath	Posted - 2005.03.16 12:45:00 - [73] Well, would you still be a Pirate if getting cought would have harsh penulties atatched to it? If you can answer yes to that, my hat off to you, you are a real pirate. If you have to say no though, you're not a pirate, you're just a stupid puke.
Typherin laidai	Posted - 2005.03.16 12:51:00 - [74] Originally by: Noriath Well, would you still be a Pirate if getting cought would have harsh penulties atatched to it? If you can answer yes to that, my hat off to you, you are a real pirate. If you have to say no though, you're not a pirate, you're just a stupid puke. WTF do you mean getting caught lol? You can get killed... if thats what you mean. and yes. I would still do it ? lol sorry but your comment makes NO sense... technicly ive been caught every time if you ask the person I killed ??? well they saw me do it lol. Typherin Typherin LaiDai Care Negotitations Expert level 5 'Give me a position of power and I'l abuse it in an instant'
meowcat	Posted - 2005.03.16 13:16:00 - [75] remove insurance completely, for everyone. make battleships the expensive luxury they were intended to be, and get people back in cruisers ~~~~)\~~~~~\o/~~~~ yeah but no but yeah but no but
Scorpyn	Posted - 2005.03.16 13:37:00 - [76] Originally by: meowcat remove insurance completely, for everyone. make battleships the expensive luxury they were intended to be, and get people back in cruisers Actually I'd say the new tech II ships and modules are the current luxuries.
Typherin laidai	Posted - 2005.03.16 13:48:00 - [77] Originally by: 3rdD Dave Edited by: 3rdD Dave on 16/03/2005 13:19:13 Originally by: Noriath Well, would you still be a Pirate if getting cought would have harsh penulties atatched to it? If you can answer yes to that, my hat off to you, you are a real pirate. If you have to say no though, you're not a pirate, you're just a stupid puke. Typherin laidai Gawd your stuupid. He means if the game was changed and pirates did lose rights to insurance would you still be a pirate?? If so, then hes taking his hat off to you and saying your a real pirate. Id rather be a real pirate then a plastic one. By no means does his comment mension insurance in any way or form. A statement of "Getting Caught" could mean absolutely anything .... And if he was talking about insurance how does 'Getting Caught' have anything to do with it ffs. Its just a dumb comment with no relevance to the topic. Arrr Ive been caught pirating ... OH NOES ! Typherin Typherin LaiDai Care Negotitations Expert level 5 'Give me a position of power and I'l abuse it in an instant'
Falbala	Posted - 2005.03.16 14:09:00 - [78] Edited by: Falbala on 16/03/2005 14:38:53 Originally by: ALTNAME This game is run by pirates(ccp), they are constantly cuddling, and will in about 2 months make this game nothing but pirate and alliance warfare, as small corps and individuals will no longer be able to play. You make the same mistake than the others who think this game is run by carebears. I explain why here: Linkage.
Dante Alighieri	Posted - 2005.03.16 15:26:00 - [79] Originally by: 3rdD Dave Edited by: 3rdD Dave on 15/03/2005 16:32:07 If you decide to become a pirate and lower you sec rating you forfeit your insurance and / or reduce your clones skills? Would make risk / reward more interesting at least for pirates and ppl hunting them. Sounds like a good idea to me... bloody pirates.
Noriath	Posted - 2005.03.16 15:44:00 - [80] Getting caught means, getting blown up and/or podded while having a low security rating. Maybe lose some insurance on your ships... Possibly have your clones cost more... Would you still be a pirate if that was the case? Only people who would be pirates anyways are really pirates at heart.
3rdD Dave	Posted - 2005.03.16 16:46:00 - [81] Edited by: 3rdD Dave on 16/03/2005 16:46:26 Originally by: Noriath Getting caught means, getting blown up and/or podded while having a low security rating. Maybe lose some insurance on your ships... Possibly have your clones cost more... Would you still be a pirate if that was the case? Only people who would be pirates anyways are really pirates at heart. Yeah Noriath.. real pirates..not the carebear-pirates that are too afriad to lose their insurance or pay more for clones..
Hella May	Posted - 2005.03.16 16:46:00 - [82] Why is it always the pirates that keep going on about risk vs reward? Its ironic in a way when it is they that create the risk and take all the reward.... It would be 'interesting' to see how many people would stop being a pirate if say the risk of being podded by a hauler/miner was greater than it is at present. Just a point Let's get this straight, if a girl has to be "rescued" 10 times a week from a brothel shes not a damsel but a prostitute.
Aelius	Posted - 2005.03.16 16:50:00 - [83] If Pirates should lose insurance you also should lose IJBM's Selling Raven BPC ME20 3M at Yulai 1st Station
ZeeWolf	Posted - 2005.03.16 19:01:00 - [84] But there could be things like Pirates Insurance companies.. created especially for pirates. You have diamond and thats "created especially for women", and they're just as bad as pirates with the number of claims they make to insurance companies. on another note, nerfing insurance for pirates is job discrimination
3rdD Dave	Posted - 2005.03.16 19:43:00 - [85] LMAO. so if pirates complain about having no-one to kill, why dont they kill each other or would that be too big a risk?
Dionysus Davinci	Posted - 2005.03.16 22:16:00 - [86] Originally by: 3rdD Dave LMAO. so if pirates complain about having no-one to kill, why dont they kill each other or would that be too big a risk? No to little reward. What am I going to get? I don't think I am going to get very lucky with a pirate carrying a BPO.
Watson	Posted - 2005.03.16 22:30:00 - [87] Originally by: Hella May Its ironic in a way when it is [pirates] that create the risk and take all the reward.... Hehe... that's kind of funny. I don't think insurance really needs to be changed that much... I think it's sufficiently painful as it is to lose a ship. I kind of liked the idea that someone posted earlier in this thread about skill training being slightly faster when one is undocked in low-sec space... But then, I like the idea of giving people incentives to do a thing a certain way rather than nerfing everything else.
McBane	Posted - 2005.03.16 22:59:00 - [88] Personally I think the whole insurance system needs a bit of an overhaul. Insurance payouts should by factored (disproportionably so that it does not zero out) by the security level of the system you lose your ship in û to take account of the increased risk. I also think the cost of insurance should go up the more ships you lose, eventually you basically become effectively uninsurable û kinda like a no claims discount, just starting out with the full bonus and using months instead of years. I just think that insurance takes away a lot of risk from the game, but I do acknowledge that it is required to cover noobs getting acquainted to the game û thus the above system would work perfectly. On the other hand though, it may just discourage yet more players from venturing into high risk space. With regards to piracy however, it really does need to be made æhardÆ to pirate, not because piracy is too profitable û it rarely is that at all û but because if it is too easy, lots of people will do it and too many people will get ganked. Recovering from a pirate attack takes time and money (the two most precious commodities in Eve) û and is a serious disruption and æspoilerÆ for many players. If the chances of getting killed by a pirate is too high travel becomes totally unprofitable and nobody will want to risk running into them and thus the game will fall apart - with everyone living in empire. The gate gankers û often the very people moaning about the lack of people to be ganked are one of the reasons many choose not to bother with 0.0. Gate ganking requires no skill, no risk and is the lamest form of piracy. That said, I canÆt see an easy solution to that.
Iaukea Asarnil	Posted - 2005.03.17 02:00:00 - [89] Originally by: ZeeWolf But there could be things like Pirates Insurance companies.. created especially for pirates. You have diamond and thats "created especially for women", and they're just as bad as pirates with the number of claims they make to insurance companies. on another note, nerfing insurance for pirates is job discrimination I've been make-believing that pirate insurance was provided by the Bandit's Guild for a while. Ok, it's purely cosmetic but it makes far more sense. I think what most of us non-pvpers would like to see more of a division between pirates and teh rest of us. That doesn't necessarily mean cutting off pirates from the various other aspects of teh game (agenting and so on), it just means puttign a pirate-centric spin on them. _____________________________________________ The most pessimistic sod in Eve, and proud of it The end of the universe....coming SOON[tm] Beware of geeks bearing gifs
Noriath	Posted - 2005.03.17 02:07:00 - [90] Edited by: Noriath on 17/03/2005 02:08:28 Edited by: Noriath on 17/03/2005 02:07:20 Originally by: Aelius If Pirates should lose insurance you also should lose IJBM's Deal, IJBMs suck anyways. ... In fact they should be removed wether Pirates run more risk or not.

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