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Pirates should lose insurance.

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3rdD Dave	Posted - 2005.03.15 13:22:00 - [1] Edited by: 3rdD Dave on 15/03/2005 16:32:07 If you decide to become a pirate and lower you sec rating you forfeit your insurance and / or reduce your clones skills? Would make risk / reward more interesting at least for pirates and ppl hunting them.
Darken Two	Posted - 2005.03.15 13:24:00 - [2] Originally by: 3rdD Dave If you decide to become a pirate and lower you sec rating you forfeit your insurance and / or reduce your clones skills? Would make risk / reward more interesting at least for pirates and ppl hunting them. Translation: I want CCP to nerf the game so I wont get killed by ebil piwates. Help meh ppl. Why dont you just DIE DIE DIE !!!!
3rdD Dave	Posted - 2005.03.15 13:36:00 - [3] lol.. take it easy just an idea. I was reading a the thread on pirates VS pirate hunting and the someone said why bother, theyre insured.
Liu Kaskakka	Posted - 2005.03.15 13:40:00 - [4] Lets make the game more interesting by reducing skill training time when undocked in <0.5. Would make the game more interesting, risk vs reward. Agreed?
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.03.15 13:40:00 - [5] ah yes, but that goes two ways. As a fighter (not pirate tho, but in say corp v corp war), you get the same issue. Your enemy is insured, the level of damage you do is limited to his modules. it's simply a given that you won't do more damage then the total worth of the ship -75 mill + worth of mods. Wether it's worth doing depends on how hard it is. So dont make the penalty bigger, make it easier to track them. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
SlaneeshZ	Posted - 2005.03.15 13:43:00 - [6] LOL, speak about your character being too distracted with the barmaidens or your ordered escort service while being asleep IRL. ---- A true player does feel no need to remind himself or fellow players that it is just a game.
3rdD Dave	Posted - 2005.03.15 13:45:00 - [7] point im making is, its easy for pirates to (w)Gank at gates and kill defenseless haulers with out risk, so why do ppl like miners haulers ahve to have all the risk when travelling. Im sure many pirates would re-consider their antics if they suddenly learned they had no insurance and lower skill points when they wake up at the clone center. Im not saying kill that off but make it more risky fot them. I mean , pirates getting insurance is stupid anyways. THey friggin pirates for crying out loud, law breakers etc..
Liu Kaskakka	Posted - 2005.03.15 13:53:00 - [8] So, you are just going boo-hoo-hoo because ebil piewats gankz0red you.
Falbala	Posted - 2005.03.15 13:55:00 - [9] Yes but there are people who kill pirates in high security and get a low security status, and also there are pirates who stay in 0.0 or hunt a lot of npc and have a high security status. Piracy is part of the game, the problem is more with gates and warp travel because you can't run away and be chased so it makes piracy static and often boring.
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.03.15 13:56:00 - [10] Originally by: 3rdD Dave point im making is, its easy for pirates to (w)Gank at gates and kill defenseless haulers with out risk, so why do ppl like miners haulers ahve to have all the risk when travelling. Im sure many pirates would re-consider their antics if they suddenly learned they had no insurance and lower skill points when they wake up at the clone center. Im not saying kill that off but make it more risky fot them. I mean , pirates getting insurance is stupid anyways. THey friggin pirates for crying out loud, law breakers etc.. It's called balancing a competitive game. Piracy or gankage at gates is quite easy yes. Hauling **** thru 0.2 is also quite easy. If it werent for piracy, hauling thru 0.2 would be something you can do afk. All it would change is shifting the edge of 'safe' space from 0.4-0.5 to 0.0. Piracy isnt too easy. Haulers are too lazy when entering low sec space. Or too stupid or something. I know I hauled thru 8 jumps of continuous low sec in a friggin badger yesterday and couild have done it afk. Risk is continously being overrated in this game. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
mahhy	Posted - 2005.03.15 13:59:00 - [11] Originally by: 3rdD Dave point im making is, its easy for pirates to (w)Gank at gates and kill defenseless haulers with out risk, so why do ppl like miners haulers ahve to have all the risk when travelling. There is no risk /me waves hand. Seriously, the risk is there yes, but it should be mitigated by player actions, not by in game mechanics forced upon people. The hauler in your scenario can do any one of the following: - read the map - use a corp mate to scout in a fast frig - use one of the new indys set for speed and/or damage tanking - fly with an escort (scouts in particular!) And I'm probably missing a few dozen. We don't need arbitrary game mechanics to protect players, we need players to protect players.
Liu Kaskakka	Posted - 2005.03.15 14:08:00 - [12] By the way, to everyone who thinks that low sec piracy/random ganking is too easy, go try it yourself. Sure you can gank some non-insta-haulers at gates but the odds for you to get any good lewt from the said haulers are slim at best. Thanks to instas etc, people have to resort to snipers, which benefits noone. And thanks to local, when you enter a system youve got about 30 secs to find a victim before everyone worth a ransom is either docked, logged or out of the system. Add the fact that when you're <-5, everyone can shoot you everywhere, I would hardly call "piracy" risk-free.
V2GBR	Posted - 2005.03.15 14:57:00 - [13] Originally by: 3rdD Dave If you decide to become a pirate and lower you sec rating you forfeit your insurance and / or reduce your clones skills? Would make risk / reward more interesting at least for pirates and ppl hunting them. Piracy is hard enough already. ---------- http://guc.webinventions.co.uk <-- GUC Site. www.webinventions.co.uk <-- My eve history.
teddy demontreal	Posted - 2005.03.15 15:10:00 - [14] not a bad idea but should be restricted only to people killed by concord after all you will probably never get money from insuring company if you crash your car during a hold up
Fendor Atar	Posted - 2005.03.15 15:20:00 - [15] dont fix whats not broken.. im no rat but this idea is kinda crap... sry and its not risky if u know what ure doing hell i hauled stuff into curse ffs... i only got caught 1 time
Attrezzo Pox	Posted - 2005.03.15 15:40:00 - [16] Originally by: 3rdD Dave If you decide to become a pirate and lower you sec rating you forfeit your insurance and / or reduce your clones skills? Would make risk / reward more interesting at least for pirates and ppl hunting them. risk reward... sure it would make it interesting. As in unbalanced and wacky to even attempt. People will still pirate they'll just work their sec status up and then when they wanna kill some nubs they go trash some empire system until they're right at the line and go sec train to do it all over again. Secondly, there currently is not vast reward for pirating. Currently it's probably the least profitable thing to do in eve. You can get rich quick if you're lucky and you know where to look but finds like that don't come everyday. So right now people do it because #1 it's fun and #2 out of bordom or grandfather clause. (as in they alwayspirated so they'll pirate now). And finally there's no such thing as pirate hunters. I know a few corps are still around that DID pirate hunt but largely now they're just friends or enemies to whoever. Just like any other corp/alliance.
Avon	Posted - 2005.03.15 15:52:00 - [17] Originally by: 3rdD Dave point im making is, its easy for pirates to (w)Gank at gates and kill defenseless haulers with out risk, so why do ppl like miners haulers ahve to have all the risk when travelling. Im sure many pirates would re-consider their antics if they suddenly learned they had no insurance and lower skill points when they wake up at the clone center. Im not saying kill that off but make it more risky fot them. I mean , pirates getting insurance is stupid anyways. THey friggin pirates for crying out loud, law breakers etc.. Sorry, I am getting confused. You are saying that pirates are taking no risk, AND that penalties for them getting killed should be higher? If there is no risk, then increasing the penalties will do nothing (ie: if there is no risk they will never die, thus harsher penalties are no deterent) It there is a risk, your arguement is based on an untruth, and so is meaningless. Please clarify. ______________________________________________ Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience.
3rdD Dave	Posted - 2005.03.15 16:30:00 - [18] Edited by: 3rdD Dave on 15/03/2005 16:31:05 No what im saying is, in another thread ( pirates Vs Pirate Hunters ) someone mentioned whats the point of hunting them as theyre insured etc. Think about it, there is no point as theres no real consequence ie: they player pirate being killed doesnt really lose that much IN comparison to a miner,hauler. Im only suggesting that pirates when they reach a certain security spec lose the rights to insurance and/ OR lose skills points when killed. Cant help feeling the only ppl who will cry and be hostile about this suggestion is the player pirates who are having their cakes and eatting it. Reaping the rewards of other ppls hard work ( miners, haulers ) and having no REAL risk themselves to lose, ie: ship paid for, wake up with same skill points refitt ship and your off.. What would you loss in ISK and capitial be compared to others who arent pirates?
Scorpyn	Posted - 2005.03.15 16:36:00 - [19] You seem to be assuming that pirates are a lot richer than they are. You also seem to be assuming that attacking people at gates is virtually risk free. You're wrong.
Mongo Peck	Posted - 2005.03.15 16:37:00 - [20] Make insurance like real life .. the more you claim then the more you pay ...... dropping down slowly after a period of time without claiming. Maybe then people would want to keep their ships. My view only ... agree, disagree or move on Mongo speaks !!
Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.03.15 16:49:00 - [21] Originally by: Mongo Peck Maybe then people would want to keep their ships. i would like "randsom" to be added to the commmunication window so that terms could be negotiated and if either side broke the terms the randsom would be refunded. Quite often i have heard of people paying randsoms only to get a good podding as this is a PvP game you'd have thought it would support some formal surrender option. Death to the Galante
Terminius Est	Posted - 2005.03.15 16:56:00 - [22] Anything to curb the ebil piwates who gank people weaker than they are is a good thing. No need to coddle cowards.
Avon	Posted - 2005.03.15 16:59:00 - [23] Originally by: 3rdD Dave Edited by: 3rdD Dave on 15/03/2005 16:31:05 No what im saying is, in another thread ( pirates Vs Pirate Hunters ) someone mentioned whats the point of hunting them as theyre insured etc. Think about it, there is no point as theres no real consequence ie: they player pirate being killed doesnt really lose that much IN comparison to a miner,hauler. Im only suggesting that pirates when they reach a certain security spec lose the rights to insurance and/ OR lose skills points when killed. Cant help feeling the only ppl who will cry and be hostile about this suggestion is the player pirates who are having their cakes and eatting it. Reaping the rewards of other ppls hard work ( miners, haulers ) and having no REAL risk themselves to lose, ie: ship paid for, wake up with same skill points refitt ship and your off.. What would you loss in ISK and capitial be compared to others who arent pirates? Um, if insurance is so great and clone costs so low, what exactly do the victims lose by being pirated? After all, it works the same both ways. ______________________________________________ Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience.
Jakk Graiseach	Posted - 2005.03.15 17:06:00 - [24] Originally by: 3rdD Dave Edited by: 3rdD Dave on 15/03/2005 16:32:07 If you decide to become a pirate and lower you sec rating you forfeit your insurance and / or reduce your clones skills? Would make risk / reward more interesting at least for pirates and ppl hunting them. Nope - no need to be harder on the 'rats. Other than making the bounty system more 'collectable', I think the sec status system is fine... -- All accounts cancelled - have fun guys
Jasmine Constantine	Posted - 2005.03.15 17:32:00 - [25] Remove all insurance from 0.0 period. What kind of idiot insurance company insures combat ships in the wild and lawless frontier. Stage a "lloyds of london" style crash where pend goes belly up and annouce that the interim imperial insurance agencies won't take the risk on insuring ships for 0.0. Losing Battleships in 0.0 should hurt pirates and pirate hunters and alliances and make the wars actually matter. Star Fraction
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.03.15 17:42:00 - [26] That will only result in wars moving from 0.0 to empire Jasmine. Insurance should stay the same for every sec rating. The onyl scaling i could see implemented without reducing the worth of 0.0 space even more is increasing insurance premium according to claims. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Bobbeh	Posted - 2005.03.15 17:50:00 - [27] Originally by: Jakk Graiseach Originally by: 3rdD Dave Edited by: 3rdD Dave on 15/03/2005 16:32:07 If you decide to become a pirate and lower you sec rating you forfeit your insurance and / or reduce your clones skills? Would make risk / reward more interesting at least for pirates and ppl hunting them. Nope - no need to be harder on the 'rats. Other than making the bounty system more 'collectable', I think the sec status system is fine... The security status system is anything but fine and that is shown by the distinct lack of any true pirates or bounty hunters. In my opinion, 0.1-0.4 is the most screwed up thing in EVE (perhaps Lvl4's are worse). People do not seem to understand that increasing sentry gun range/ uberness actually encourages ganking. Before we had them, yes we had gankage but we also had pirating. Now, we are left with the gankage and have no pirates. CCP need to change this system and in my opinion it is more necessary than making everyone move to 0.0 space. They should do this move more gradually, first moving down to 0.1-0.4 then going to 0.0. Putting Level 4 agents into low security space is probably the greatest thing CCP will have done to encourage exodus. Infact, because people have had these missions in high security space and have realized how very profitable they are, they are more likely to move into in-secure space. I sincerely believe that the original is along the right lines. Completely removing insurance from pirates is the wrong way to go though. This is what i have proposed before and will re-propose in a thread i will be making soon: At the moment any pirating that goes on in such systems is just gankage. CCP need to promote proper pirating. I want to suggest a reason why pirates might want to stop blowing people up. They should make it so that aggression does not give a security hit at all. They would, of course, be fired upon at stations and stargates. Perhaps along with this, increase the security hit for blowing someone up. Introduce a ransom feature. It could be very simple; the gang leader can be the only one to open up such a window. If this gang leader clicks ransom whilst the target is being fired upon then a ransom will take place. Once the target has reached destruction point it enters a ransom state. The ship cannot jump or activate any modules. It could be a simple trade window with the following buttons: Accept, Offer and Decline. The pirate starts out by offering a ransom fee, which the target can accept. If they accept they become invulnerable, they cannot use any of their modules but neither can anyone use any on them and they are also free to warp off/jump. This could be for a set amount of time (5 minutes or something). If they click offer, they type in an amount of ISK and it appears on the pirates screen, at which point he can click accept/offer/decline. If either press decline, then the ship is blown up. If the pirate has clicked decline then he gets the normal security hit. If the target clicks decline, then the pirate suffers a much lesser security hit, being awarded for trying to solve the conflict without destruction. Criminal flagging should be increased against players. Bounty hunters not only have the trouble of finding a target but there is a good chance he will not longer be criminally flagged. A criminally flagged target should remain flagged to players for 24 hours. Bounty hunters cannot really make a living. I want to suggest that if they blow up a ship that is either criminally flagged or belongs to an outlaw then some of the insurance money that would normally go to the pirate be re-directed into the bounty hunters wallet. I suggest 20% of insurance if they are criminally flagged but not an outlaw and 40% if they are an outlaw. Bounty hunters have no real way of finding any pirates. There should be a map that displays criminally flagged and outlaws if they are in empire. This could cost ISK, perhaps 1million for a 5-minute viewing. Make sentry gunÆs more uber. They should stop ships sniping anything that comes through. Sentry guns should just be as they are now, with a range of the grid. However, the sentry gun operators should be able to be bribed. They could accept for rare items in exchange for the sentry gun being ôbroken downö. A Caldari operator could ask for gallente women for example. This bribing should not work all the time, and if it does not work there should not be a bribe option for another 24 hours. As security status goes down, the chance of a bribe increases. As the offer is increased, the chance to bribe should increase. A typical 20 million ISK bribe in a 0.4 system should have maybe a 60% chance of success. ôBrokenö sentry guns should be viewable on the map. continued below Mimiru > It'd be a tie, the monkies nerfed pooflinger wouldnt have enough tracking to hit the parrot orbiting him, but the parrot's beak is so small it couldnt break the monkey's fur tanking.
Bobbeh	Posted - 2005.03.15 17:50:00 - [28] These are my suggestions in one go: Remove security hit for aggression, perhaps increase security hit for destruction. Introduce a new ransom feature. Criminal flagging increased for players. Insurance re-direction when bounty hunters destroy criminals. Map service that shows criminally flagged/ outlaws. Sentry gun range should be increased. Sentry guns should be able to be bribed. Mimiru > It'd be a tie, the monkies nerfed pooflinger wouldnt have enough tracking to hit the parrot orbiting him, but the parrot's beak is so small it couldnt break the monkey's fur tanking.
Garnet Strife	Posted - 2005.03.15 17:59:00 - [29] Ransom feature would be great... I WANT A SIG!
Avon	Posted - 2005.03.15 18:45:00 - [30] Edited by: Avon on 15/03/2005 18:46:08 Truth of the matter is this: Criminal flagging killed 'piracy' and increased ganking. Argue it any colour you like, that is the truth. If you want piracy to come back and gankage to decrease you need to do the following: Get rid of NPC responses to flagged players (other players have to do the work). Sentries still respond to agressive acts they see, BUT, Non damaging actions stop being agressive (although still flag you) - ie: webs, scramblers, etc. Then 'pirates' can hold up ships, and actually ransom them. Holding people up will flag the pirate to player retaliation. If they open fire on the ship then sentries will aggro. Problem is, carebears would rather be ganked than give an inch to pirates ... even if it means they come off worse. ______________________________________________ Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience.

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