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        |  Darth Gustav
 Interwebs Cooter Explosion
 Fatal Ascension
 
 1618
 
 
       | Posted - 2012.10.17 18:57:00 -
          [31] - Quote 
 
 Teibor wrote:Ivy Romanova wrote:Robert De'Arneth wrote:Well to be frank, unless you have good skills that go with any ship you fly, you will be crap. Look at recomended certs and use that as your plan, you will need others, but the certs will keep you busy for a while. Simple rule just beause you can fly a hull, does not mean you should. And if you have crap support skills on a hull, you are just flying the hull not using it. Also, on an ship or mod question, you would get more help if you went to the ship mod forum. So advice, learn the differance between flying a hull and using a hull.   To fill in all the certs on the CORE and Missiles and stuff will take me at least 2 more years   Is there a faster way around this? 2 years to get - - Core Comp Standard - Active Shield Tanking standard - Cruiser Launcher Control Standard ??? This.
 
 Also, it is never a waste of time to train the skills required to fly a ship you already own and want to fly.
  He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller.
 -Darth Gustav's Axiom
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        |  James Amril-Kesh
 4S Corporation
 RAZOR Alliance
 
 1001
 
 
       | Posted - 2012.10.17 18:58:00 -
          [32] - Quote 
 
 Metal Icarus wrote:Ivy Romanova wrote:Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Your first mistake was Tengu. Your second mistake was admitting to owning Tengu. why? I got it from a bargain in Jita? The ship was only 30 mil below market price :O I guess since HML is getting nerfed soon, and I won't be using them on a Tengu, its not gonna affect me as bad. Perfect time to jump onto the T3 wagon... or so I thought. Well, it is a great time to enjoy their power before they get nerfed, thus pay less for them. In the future, after it had been nerfed, HAMs will be used over HMLs. I think that they will be more effective as well. I'm already using a HAM Tengu for PVE, and it's ******* boss. I do something like 940 DPS now, and after the winter patch that'll be raised to something like 990. There will be a slight increase in explosion radius (mitigated by guided missile precision) and in explosion velocity, but that won't affect my DPS against battleships which are what most of my DPS is focused on.
 Also a slight range drop, but the range on HAMs is actually pretty good for their DPS as a short ranged weapon.
 http://themittani.com/features/local-problem
 A simple fix to the local intel problem
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        |  No More Heroes
 GoonWaffe
 Goonswarm Federation
 
 1465
 
 
       | Posted - 2012.10.17 19:18:00 -
          [33] - Quote 
 
 Ivy Romanova wrote:While on Battleclinic 
 Found your problem. Battleclinic is bad mmk.
 
 primary target is broadcasted, put all drones on the warp disruption battery. If you are in a frigate you should be at the gate, who blew up?
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        |  James Amril-Kesh
 4S Corporation
 RAZOR Alliance
 
 1001
 
 
       | Posted - 2012.10.17 19:21:00 -
          [34] - Quote 
 
 Ivy Romanova wrote:I see people dishing out 1200 dps+ Also, lol. It's literally impossible to get 1200 DPS. You can maybe get 1100 with an entirely unrealistic officer fit with Estamel BCS and 6% implants. :P
 http://themittani.com/features/local-problem
 A simple fix to the local intel problem
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        |  Suitonia
 Corp 54
 Curatores Veritatis Alliance
 
 111
 
 
       | Posted - 2012.10.17 19:28:00 -
          [35] - Quote 
 Found the problem, http://eveboard.com/pilot/Ivy%20Romanova
 
 OP doesn't even have Caldari Cruiser 5 yet, and has all subsystem skills at level 2, Heavy Missiles level 3, Warhead Upgrades at just level 1.
 If you want to compare realistic Tengu figures put "All Level V" character in, and use t2 HMLs.
 
 Your character is very under-skilled for the Tengu. Train Offensive 5 and other subsystem skills to 4, HML 5 and spec 4, then get Rapid Launch 5 and Warhead Upgrades 4. (This will take you a bit more than 1 month, not 2 years!!)
 Also get Missile Projection to 4 as well (This is why you have terrible range). you also don't have Guided Missile Precision AT ALL! which is very important for DPS against frigates since the Tengu doesn't have drones. You also don't have acceleration control skill (5% AB speed per level).0
 
 Honestly I would just stay in the drake for a month while you train these skills to a decent level. You'll find that your drake will also improve pretty dramatically while you are training these too! So it's not like you'll be waiting around without any gain.
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        |  Nicolo da'Vicenza
 Air
 The Unthinkables
 
 1956
 
 
       | Posted - 2012.10.17 19:53:00 -
          [36] - Quote 
 as a member of famed renter alliance INK I can confirm that tengus are useless in fights
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        |  Cutter Isaacson
 Nouvelle Rouvenor
 
 1493
 
 
       | Posted - 2012.10.17 20:08:00 -
          [37] - Quote 
 With my skills I do rather nicely in a HAMgu.
 
 EVEBOARD
 
 
 Current fit is as follows:
 
 
 Highs
 
 Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
 Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
 Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
 Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
 Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
 
 Meds
 
 Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
 Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
 Shield Boost Amplifier II
 Shield Boost Amplifier II
 10mn Afterburner II
 Pith B-Type Large Shield Booster
 
 
 Lows
 
 Power Diagnostic System II
 Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
 Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
 Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
 Damage Control II
 
 Rigs
 
 Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
 Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
 Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
 
 Subs
 
 Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
 Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
 Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
 Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
 Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
 
 
 I get 700DPS using Scourge Rage HAMS, sustained defence of 1204, 34k EHP with the following resist %: 55/91/97/78.
 The resists can be boosted, and thus the defence, by switching out one Invuln for a specific resistance amp. There are only a handful of missions that this ship cannot tank and destroy and they are the ones with Neuts or NOS. Other than that, everything dies.
 
 As for PvP, not a ruddy clue
  "The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
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        |  Touval Lysander
 Sebiestor Tribe
 Minmatar Republic
 
 405
 
 
       | Posted - 2012.10.17 20:25:00 -
          [38] - Quote 
 I had a maxed out Tengu alt once. All 5's and specced where it mattered.
 
 Sold her for many, many billions after she made many, many billions.
 
 Yep. Confirming tengus are ****.
 "I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
 
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        |  Varesk
 Origin.
 Black Legion.
 
 183
 
 
       | Posted - 2012.10.17 20:54:00 -
          [39] - Quote 
 
 Metal Icarus wrote:Sig tanking with a 10mn afterburner with kinetic HMLs can get you almost 700 dps with lvl 5 offensive subsystem. 
 Sig tanking at 500m/s is what gives you the ability to offset 99% of incoming damage (everything that does a ton of damage misses, beware of battlecrusiers). The tengu does NOT have the ability to tank like a drakes does, and a drake does not have the ability to sig tank like a tengu does.
 
 keep moving, avoid webs, kill BC's first
 
 Rouge drones is an entirely different story.... (I LOST MY TENGU a couple days ago in a 5/10 rouge drone anom.... /sob)
 
 Sig tanking = when your sig radius is small enough not to be hit by 100 percent damage.
 Speed tanking = when you move faster than they enemy can track.
 hope that helps.
 
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        |  ShahFluffers
 Ice Fire Warriors
 Late Night Alliance
 
 994
 
 
       | Posted - 2012.10.17 20:55:00 -
          [40] - Quote 
 
 Suitonia wrote:Found the problem, http://eveboard.com/pilot/Ivy%20Romanova OP doesn't even have Caldari Cruiser 5 yet, and has all subsystem skills at level 2, Heavy Missiles level 3, Warhead Upgrades at just level 1. The OP might also want to get his/her capacitor skills to level 5... Weapon Upgrades to level 5 and after that Advanced Weapon Upgrades to level 4... the shield rigging skill needs to be at level 4... definitely needs to work on missile skills... Spaceship Command to level 5... subsystems to level 4 at least...
 
 OP... I recommend that you work on getting all your "support skills" to level 4 first... then go back and train them all to level 5 one by one.
 Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
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        |  Alexa Coates
 Red Fleet
 
 206
 
 
       | Posted - 2012.10.17 21:07:00 -
          [41] - Quote 
 300 dps? jesus christ dude my over-tanked nighthawk with 1 bcu on it deals out 400, come on.
 That's a Templar, an Amarr fighter used by carriers.
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        |  Darth Gustav
 Interwebs Cooter Explosion
 Fatal Ascension
 
 1623
 
 
       | Posted - 2012.10.17 21:09:00 -
          [42] - Quote 
 
 Alexa Coates wrote:300 dps? jesus christ dude my over-tanked nighthawk with 1 bcu on it deals out 400, come on.  My destroyer practically does 300 dps!
 He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller.
 -Darth Gustav's Axiom
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        |  Casirio
 DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD
 Exhale.
 
 42
 
 
       | Posted - 2012.10.17 21:12:00 -
          [43] - Quote 
 your skills are ****. train up, use EFT and play with your skills + changing affecting skills to see where you are lacking. go fly a drake in the mean time
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        |  KrakizBad
 Eve Defence Force
 Fatal Ascension
 
 929
 
 
       | Posted - 2012.10.17 21:22:00 -
          [44] - Quote 
 
 Ivy Romanova wrote:Robert De'Arneth wrote:Well to be frank, unless you have good skills that go with any ship you fly, you will be crap. Look at recomended certs and use that as your plan, you will need others, but the certs will keep you busy for a while. Simple rule just beause you can fly a hull, does not mean you should. And if you have crap support skills on a hull, you are just flying the hull not using it. Also, on an ship or mod question, you would get more help if you went to the ship mod forum. So advice, learn the differance between flying a hull and using a hull.   To fill in all the certs on the CORE and Missiles and stuff will take me at least 2 more years   Is there a faster way around this? Stop using certs. Learn to fit a ship and then train those skills specifically.
 Why did you take my wings away?
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        |  Skydell
 Space Mermaids
 Somethin Awfull Forums
 
 319
 
 
       | Posted - 2012.10.17 21:24:00 -
          [45] - Quote 
 OMG DPS fits are multi box fits. They will have so many holes in them an Ibis could cost you the ship if you try and solo with it.
 
 They also have very limited application but that will be true of any fit or hull you use when not farming missions.
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        |  Vimsy Vortis
 Shoulda Checked Local
 Break-A-Wish Foundation
 
 858
 
 
       | Posted - 2012.10.17 21:30:00 -
          [46] - Quote 
 Don't fly any ship unless you are appropriately skilled to fly it.
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        |  Jack Togenada
 State War Academy
 Caldari State
 
 5
 
 
       | Posted - 2012.10.17 21:35:00 -
          [47] - Quote 
 Brand new Tengu pilot here. I'm getting 750 or so DPS with tech 2 heavy missiles. All skills to 4.
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        |  Lin-Young Borovskova
 Science and Trade Institute
 Caldari State
 
 836
 
 
       | Posted - 2012.10.17 21:46:00 -
          [48] - Quote 
 
 Ivy Romanova wrote:As the titles says. I just bought myself a tengu a few days back, because I heard they are crazy fast, tank thousands of dps , dish out BC damage and have one of the highest survivablity on the Battlefield. WELL! To be frank.. I think not... I am barely dishing out 300 dps atm , only has an ehp of 35k. Thats even worse than my Drake. While on Battleclinic, I see people dishing out 1200 dps+ , and even tankier than a Skiff. SO HERE IS THE QUESTION! What is the minimum SP for which categories of skills should a newbie Tengu pilot should have , before he even thinks about hopping into one and go pew pew pvp style in it?Here is my stats according to EFT 2.16 
 
 1st Strategic cruisers are NOT a "I win button" -if you look for that then you need -some- pirate ships.
 
 2nd forget battleclinic and EFT ololilozboulzcrap theorycrafting. A TOP character skilled for Tengu has everything related at LVL5 !!
 This means every single little crappy nasty dusty dirty skill at lvl5, has the optimized fitting and implants and a lot of lube for hard moments.
 
 3rd stop reading nonsense from people not having a single clue what they're talking about because their cousin heard his friend girlfriend say'in her granma...and yada ya.
 
 A top skilled character with fittings over 2billions, a pod over 1 billion can actually, this means ASAP, get out of his HM's Tengu 750 dps without heat and about 700m/s with B-type 10MN AB.
 
 Now tell me how stupid are those when I can use a cloacky loki dishing about 600dps (with cloack sub, you got that one?) permanently run mwd+large shield booster while being cap stable?
 
 I'll answer to you: one dishes decent dmg "from there" has a decent speed tank and T3 resist+lots of millions in tank, the other requires minimal fittings and liking the 'in your face' game play.
 
 Crying moaners about Tengus are clearly ridiculous. They will always bring the 3B plus fighting with char using strong boosters+OGB+pirate implants and claim "look nany ot's op"....jesus christ, this community got really really downwards...
 
 Got it?
 brb
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        |  Crazy Nymphora
 VN Gangsters
 
 9
 
 
       | Posted - 2012.10.17 21:48:00 -
          [49] - Quote 
 
 Ivy Romanova wrote:To fill in all the certs on the CORE and Missiles and stuff will take me at least 2 more years   Is there a faster way around this? I don't think you would need to fill all the certs just to have a PVE vessel. It only took me around 4 months to have enough skills for a 720DPS@92km, ~800 DPS tank, which should be enough for most L4 missions and C3 wormholes.
 By the way, they are going to nerf that DPS and Range, about 10% DPS (worse on smaller targets because of explosion radius/velocity nerf) and about 60% range on Heavy Missiles, so if you want to go for Tengu maybe you would like to consider using Heavy Assault Missile instead, though they have very short range, so that may cause troubles and take you much longer to do missions.
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        |  Derath Ellecon
 Washburne Holdings
 Situation: Normal
 
 392
 
 
       | Posted - 2012.10.17 22:03:00 -
          [50] - Quote 
 IMO nobody should even consider any T3 until they can completely T2 fit it. Guns tank etc.
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        |  Meryl SinGarda
 Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
 
 639
 
 
       | Posted - 2012.10.17 22:04:00 -
          [51] - Quote 
 
 Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:It would be helpful to see your fit before we can tell you why you are bad. 
 Spaghetti came out of my nose
 
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        |  Lin-Young Borovskova
 Science and Trade Institute
 Caldari State
 
 836
 
 
       | Posted - 2012.10.17 22:05:00 -
          [52] - Quote 
 Herp, forgot to add the cloacky Proteus dishing 700dps with about 90K ehp or the uber gank prot with 1400dps and +400K EHP.
 
 Ho's the idiot who said Tengu is OP? -it is not.
 
 Also: thx for making my Tengu even better with next missiles revamp because if you try to get close enough to my capless missile launchers you'll still be getting in your face about 800dps without heat and about 30k physical EHP.
 
 Thx very much for being idiots...
  brb
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        |  Acac Sunflyier
 Burning Star L.L.C.
 
 248
 
 
       | Posted - 2012.10.17 22:09:00 -
          [53] - Quote 
 Tengu is best for Sov and Wormholes.
 There just isn't anything intresting on the front page of the GD anymore. Yawn!
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        |  Mara Rinn
 Cosmic Goo Convertor
 Cosmic Consortium
 
 1934
 
 
       | Posted - 2012.10.17 22:10:00 -
          [54] - Quote 
 Don't get distracted by certificates! The certificates will insist on skills that add nothing to your HML performance (such as rockets, light missiles, assault missiles).
 
 Make sure you're using the 6-launcher Accelerated Ejection Bay fitting. Then focus entirely on the skills that will improve missile damage or rate of fire (Heavy Missiles, Warhead Upgrades, Rapid Launch). Fit 6 T2 HMLs, 3 or 4 CN Ballistic Controls. The work on the missile support skills: guided missile precision etc.
 
 Then work on your tank, starting with Acceleration Control, Navigation, Evasive Manoeuvres, and faction AB with T2 overdrive. Get all the Caldari Subsystems skills to 5.
 
 You'll have a viable Tengu pilot in about three months, with another year or so to get that extra 20% of performance from a swathe of level 5 skills. Skills such as Missile Bombardment and Missile Projection will help overall, but won't impact your DPS or tank (well, except by letting you shoot from further away, which means you won't be taking as much damage, which means your existing tank will perform better).
 
 Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players
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        |  Lin-Young Borovskova
 Science and Trade Institute
 Caldari State
 
 838
 
 
       | Posted - 2012.10.17 22:18:00 -
          [55] - Quote 
 
 Mara Rinn wrote:Don't get distracted by certificates! The certificates will insist on skills that add nothing to your HML performance (such as rockets, light missiles, assault missiles).
 Make sure you're using the 6-launcher Accelerated Ejection Bay fitting. Then focus entirely on the skills that will improve missile damage or rate of fire (Heavy Missiles, Warhead Upgrades, Rapid Launch). Fit 6 T2 HMLs, 3 or 4 CN Ballistic Controls. The work on the missile support skills: guided missile precision etc.
 
 Then work on your tank, starting with Acceleration Control, Navigation, Evasive Manoeuvres, and faction AB with T2 overdrive. Get all the Caldari Subsystems skills to 5.
 
 You'll have a viable Tengu pilot in about three months, with another year or so to get that extra 20% of performance from a swathe of level 5 skills. Skills such as Missile Bombardment and Missile Projection will help overall, but won't impact your DPS or tank (well, except by letting you shoot from further away, which means you won't be taking as much damage, which means your existing tank will perform better).
 
 
 This is the major difference in between Tengu and other T3 ships that regular populace doesn't understand. Tengu strength for a young pilot with average skills resides only and exclusively in this ship ability to shoot unbalanced missiles beyond reasonable ranges and add to it's physical tank speed tanking. Yes seems easier witch it is for random high sec lvl4's, it is not when you get to some DED and null complexes and witch is absolutely not enough when you even think about cleaning The Maze with, witch is only possible with extreme fittings+boosts and a dedicated top skilled character (read huge amount of effort witch is more than one year and not 3mths for lvl 4's)
 brb
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        |  Smiknight
 The Plebian Republic
 
 17
 
 
       | Posted - 2012.10.18 00:14:00 -
          [56] - Quote 
 
 Ivy Romanova wrote:Robert De'Arneth wrote:Well to be frank, unless you have good skills that go with any ship you fly, you will be crap. Look at recomended certs and use that as your plan, you will need others, but the certs will keep you busy for a while. Simple rule just beause you can fly a hull, does not mean you should. And if you have crap support skills on a hull, you are just flying the hull not using it. Also, on an ship or mod question, you would get more help if you went to the ship mod forum. So advice, learn the differance between flying a hull and using a hull.   To fill in all the certs on the CORE and Missiles and stuff will take me at least 2 more years   Is there a faster way around this? 
 Around 90-120 days, but you were close.
  I am what you refer to as a Carebear...I care very much about the future New Eden and Eve and couldn't bear the Chicken Littles destroying that.
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        |  Anya Ohaya
 School of Applied Knowledge
 Caldari State
 
 174
 
 
       | Posted - 2012.10.18 00:51:00 -
          [57] - Quote 
 
 Ivy Romanova wrote:As the titles says.To be frank.. I think not...
 I am barely dishing out 300 dps atm
 
 
 Just because you can fit railguns on a Tengu doesn't mean you should.
 
 Edit, but seriously if you can't fit T2 launchers and T2 BCUs then you should fly something else.
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        |  Touval Lysander
 Sebiestor Tribe
 Minmatar Republic
 
 408
 
 
       | Posted - 2012.10.18 01:08:00 -
          [58] - Quote 
 
 KrakizBad wrote:Stop using certs. Learn to fit a ship and then train those skills specifically.
 ^^ This
 
 I use EFT to fit something I CAN fly and port the skills list to Evemon and make them priority 1. (eg: drake PvE HM)
 
 I then use EFT to fit what I WANT to fly, port the fit into EveMon and get the additional skills list and set to priority 2. (eg: Tengu PvE HM)
 
 As long as they're the same type of ship this get's you flying, making money AND skilling in unison towards the ultimate goal.
 
 Fit #1 is constantly improving as you're skilling for fit #2.
 
 Btw, leave the 6 x T3 skills last. They will not improve fit #1.
 
 "I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
 
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        |  James Amril-Kesh
 4S Corporation
 RAZOR Alliance
 
 1001
 
 
       | Posted - 2012.10.18 02:27:00 -
          [59] - Quote 
 
 Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:or the uber gank prot with 1400dps and +400K EHP. Did you ever bother trying to achieve these numbers in EFT? Just... wow.
 http://themittani.com/features/local-problem
 A simple fix to the local intel problem
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        |  Rich Uncle PennyBags
 EVE Online Monopoly
 
 0
 
 
       | Posted - 2012.10.18 03:08:00 -
          [60] - Quote 
 OP is doing it wrong.
 A mere 5B ISK will get you a nice Tengu with 600DPS output with a 3000DPS tank.
 
 I suggest you train your skills and purchase the correct modules before complaining on the forums.
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