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Qayos
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Posted - 2005.03.26 02:43:00 -
[1]
Related to This Post...
Is it legal to buy gametime for ISK? Someone in a trade channel said they asked a GM before offering the deal, and the GM said it was fine. But others including ISD people said they believe it is not legal in HelpChan... so... anyone have an official answer, or a link to one, or know of something in the EULA that would clarify this?
Thanks.
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Nostradamu5
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Posted - 2005.03.26 02:51:00 -
[2]
Sorry the EULA is only for confusing issues, *snip*.
Please keep it friendly - Jacques Archambault
Stop griping about server instability and go buy an EVE mug!
Additionally with the purchase of each mug you will receive two(2) invisible Elves.
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Matrin III
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Posted - 2005.03.26 03:30:00 -
[3]
Game time for isk? An obvious scam.
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MutationZ
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Posted - 2005.03.26 05:03:00 -
[4]
The person in question has been doing it for months. If it were a scam people would have complained and had it shut down
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Qayos
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Posted - 2005.03.26 05:04:00 -
[5]
So it IS legal then?
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juduzz
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Posted - 2005.03.26 05:05:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Matrin III
Game time for isk? An obvious scam.
Dunno in EnB it was very popular sometimes someone would scam *but scamming was illegal there" i had one of my account for like 1 year just payed for in game money (mainly vault account as limited space to store junk)
Same as our corp we had about 6 vault accounts because there were no corp/guild hangers with officers aving access ect
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Nero Scuro
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Posted - 2005.03.26 05:06:00 -
[7]
I don't see why CCP would allow this. They're losing out on REAL money after all, plus it encourages macro miners.
Generally, where real money is concered it isn't allowed (unless CCP are getting it, of course. =P).
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Haha, stupid monkey! Now I'VE got the Oscar! Enjoy your worthless gun! |
Caybn E'vangel
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Posted - 2005.03.26 05:10:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Caybn E''vangel on 26/03/2005 05:11:13
as i know it, game codes are purchases mass by the vendor, and sold to clients who come back every month with the isk. i'm not saying there are not scammers out there, but there are people who do it honestly, even as a service to several people who dont have credit cards.
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Cypherous
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Posted - 2005.03.26 11:36:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Nero Scuro
I don't see why CCP would allow this. They're losing out on REAL money after all, plus it encourages macro miners.
Generally, where real money is concered it isn't allowed (unless CCP are getting it, of course. =P).
CCP aren't losing out on real money because someone has to buy the time codes with real cash so in the end nobody loses out :) unless its a scam at which point someone does lose out.
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Jacques Archambault
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Posted - 2005.03.26 12:10:00 -
[10]
I spoke to a GM about the issue of selling EVE Timecards for ISK.
Basically, the sale of EVE Timecards for ISK is not considered illegal, as long as the person in question is not selling the timecards for real money.
- Jacques Archambault
{The Forum Rules} | {Email Us!} |
TheCarebearinYoma
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Posted - 2005.03.26 12:15:00 -
[11]
Quote:
I spoke to a GM about the issue of selling EVE Timecards for ISK.
And where exactly do you get these cards? They are not listed on the website anymore.
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PreTender
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Posted - 2005.03.26 12:32:00 -
[12]
Edited by: PreTender on 26/03/2005 12:32:20
http://www.eve-online.com/store/comersus_listCategoriesAndProducts.asp?idCategory=7
__________________________
http://www.eve-extra.com |
Avon
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Posted - 2005.03.26 15:09:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Jacques Archambault
I spoke to a GM about the issue of selling EVE Timecards for ISK.
Basically, the sale of EVE Timecards for ISK is not considered illegal, as long as the person in question is not selling the timecards for real money.
- Jacques Archambault
You might want to check that.
Effectively you are buying ISK with money (which you used to pay for the gametime cards), which violates the EULA.
People have been warned over this, and I think one ban that I know of.
Maybe the policy has changed, in which case it needs to be clarified.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Hilabana
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Posted - 2005.03.26 15:55:00 -
[14]
 to me if it sounds like a way to cheat and looks like a way to cheat then it is a cheat!
______________________________________________
Im just a Older person having fun in the best
Game ever made in the world -=[ EVE-ONLINE ]=-
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Archa
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Posted - 2005.03.26 16:03:00 -
[15]
well if somebody knows someone not scamming selling these timecards. contact me ingame cause i would love to buy some days in exchange for iskies
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Chrnkuga
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Posted - 2005.03.26 16:26:00 -
[16]
I think its a great opportunity for players from poorer countries to play this game. Not everyone can afford 15$ a month!!! Consider yourself lucky to have a cerdit card and for not having to spend 50% of your play time to gather isk just to be able to play at all.
And someone already bought those cards for real cash so CCP is not losing anything. In fact CCP would loose money if they stopped this practice since the guy selling cards for isk would stop buying them without customers to sell to and poorer players would just leave since they have no way of paying for gametime.
So STFU, and play if it does not concern you in any way!!!
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Miner's Bane
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Posted - 2005.03.26 16:55:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Jacques Archambault
I spoke to a GM about the issue of selling EVE Timecards for ISK.
Basically, the sale of EVE Timecards for ISK is not considered illegal, as long as the person in question is not selling the timecards for real money.
- Jacques Archambault
That is utterly retarded.
Its like saying you cant sell ISK for Euros, but you can sell it for Yen and then convert it to Euros at your bank later.
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Auxan
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Posted - 2005.03.26 17:05:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Miner's Bane
Originally by: Jacques Archambault
I spoke to a GM about the issue of selling EVE Timecards for ISK.
Basically, the sale of EVE Timecards for ISK is not considered illegal, as long as the person in question is not selling the timecards for real money.
- Jacques Archambault
That is utterly retarded.
Its like saying you cant sell ISK for Euros, but you can sell it for Yen and then convert it to Euros at your bank later.
erm no, he's saying you can sell them for game money, but not for real money
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Supersam
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Posted - 2005.03.26 17:06:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Caybn E'vangel
Edited by: Caybn E''vangel on 26/03/2005 05:11:13
as i know it, game codes are purchases mass by the vendor, and sold to clients who come back every month with the isk.
I seen someone doing this, and from the way he approached the subject, I'd be willing to bet than he is stealing the timecards from somewhere that sells them and trying to get rid of them in game, rather than risking being caught selling them on e-bay.
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(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <)
Bunny 4TW |
wayz
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Posted - 2005.03.26 17:15:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Jacques Archambault
I spoke to a GM about the issue of selling EVE Timecards for ISK.
Basically, the sale of EVE Timecards for ISK is not considered illegal, as long as the person in question is not selling the timecards for real money.
- Jacques Archambault
You might want to check that.
Effectively you are buying ISK with money (which you used to pay for the gametime cards), which violates the EULA.
People have been warned over this, and I think one ban that I know of.
Maybe the policy has changed, in which case it needs to be clarified.
oh shut up Avon, jeez whats the point of even moaning about this, someone selling time cards for isk isnt hurting anyone. The eula was basically formed to prevent ccp from being messed up in legal rubbish concerning people buying and selling isk ect.
What you are basically doing here is moaning for absolutely no reason.
Basically the only violation of EULA would be if the person selling the time cards could be 'proved' to be selling the isk on ebay and quite frankly even then I doubt the devs even give a crap as long as no one comes moaning to them when it all goes wrong.
Basically eula means this: your not allowed to sell eve stuff on ebay for money! we dont really care if you do, but if you do and it goes wrong were just gonna ban everyone involved. In other words :Leave CCP out of your frikkin ebay disputes OR else!!:
Wayz: cmon X hurry up I aint got all day!
Twisted Xistance: oh yeah lol.... anyway, you have got all day you benefit scrounging jobbless schmoe!
Wayz: too chey :) |
wayz
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Posted - 2005.03.26 17:17:00 -
[21]
Edited by: wayz on 26/03/2005 17:17:41
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Jacques Archambault
I spoke to a GM about the issue of selling EVE Timecards for ISK.
Basically, the sale of EVE Timecards for ISK is not considered illegal, as long as the person in question is not selling the timecards for real money.
- Jacques Archambault
You might want to check that.
Effectively you are buying ISK with money (which you used to pay for the gametime cards), which violates the EULA.
People have been warned over this, and I think one ban that I know of.
Maybe the policy has changed, in which case it needs to be clarified.
I'm telling on you.............
I'm getting you done 
.
Wayz: cmon X hurry up I aint got all day!
Twisted Xistance: oh yeah lol.... anyway, you have got all day you benefit scrounging jobbless schmoe!
Wayz: too chey :) |
sutty
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Posted - 2005.03.26 17:25:00 -
[22]
Ok but the guy who is selling the game cards for isk has to be making his money back somewhere, so the isk he gets goes on EBAY and he proberly makes double his money back ?
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kbuk
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Posted - 2005.03.26 17:50:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Jacques Archambault
I spoke to a GM about the issue of selling EVE Timecards for ISK.
Basically, the sale of EVE Timecards for ISK is not considered illegal, as long as the person in question is not selling the timecards for real money.
- Jacques Archambault
Someone has had to BUY the time cards with real money. So therefore it should be just as illegal / banned as selling isk on ebay.
The only difference is CCP is getting a cut.
In real terms what's the difference if I go sell say 100M isk for a 100 day card. It just means someone has given CCP money instead of me giving CCP money. Net result, someone has paid me (by proxy) $49.95.
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2005.03.26 18:06:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Jacques Archambault
I spoke to a GM about the issue of selling EVE Timecards for ISK.
Basically, the sale of EVE Timecards for ISK is not considered illegal, as long as the person in question is not selling the timecards for real money.
- Jacques Archambault
That looks like a misunderstanding somewhere along the line. You're wrong.
What you just said is that it's alright to sell game time cards for ISK but not for actual cash. I'm guessing you meant the other way around or misinterpreted what the GM told you because the game time cards can be bought for real cash from the eve online store and NOT in-game. There is absolutely nothing wrong with selling a came time card for real money. Selling them for in-game ISK, however, amounts to buying ISK with real life cash.
It isn't "illegal" since there's no law about it, but it is against the EULA and will result in a banning for any person taking part in this action. This is a warning to anyone who sees this thread as a green light - this ISD comment is a mistake somewhere along the line where the information has been garbled. If you sell a game tiem card for isk or buy one for isk, you are committing a permanantly bannable offence and I will report you myself if I find out.
Jaques, I would be very much obliged if you would please recheck the information you were given, it seems you were misinformed or perhaps the GM you spoke with didn't quite understand the question. As ISD, people have a certain respect for things you say, which makes double-checking everything before posting it a must. A single mistake is a very costly thing.
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Ailana
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Posted - 2005.03.26 18:52:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Auxan
Originally by: Miner's Bane
Originally by: Jacques Archambault
I spoke to a GM about the issue of selling EVE Timecards for ISK.
Basically, the sale of EVE Timecards for ISK is not considered illegal, as long as the person in question is not selling the timecards for real money.
- Jacques Archambault
That is utterly retarded.
Its like saying you cant sell ISK for Euros, but you can sell it for Yen and then convert it to Euros at your bank later.
erm no, he's saying you can sell them for game money, but not for real money
Ermm.. no...he is saying you are effectively buying isk by selling time that you bought for $$$. That is the same thing as buying isk for $$$. The difference however is that nobody is selling isk for real money. That¦s probably the reason why ppl are unclear on the issue.
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Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2005.03.26 20:10:00 -
[26]
Does anyone have the name of the dude thats selling these game time cards?
Id love to be able to play for free 
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Wrangler
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Posted - 2005.03.26 20:36:00 -
[27]
The GMs are currently discussing how to handle the sale of ETCs, pending the outcome of their discussion we will not allow selling these items on the EVE Message Boards.
If they will allow selling ETCs for real life money it is unlikely that you will be allowed to sell it on the EVE Message Boards, since selling anything for real life money on the market forums isn't allowed. I can't say how we will handle selling ECTs for ISK (in game currency).
This all may change in the future, but this is how it is for now. When something is decided we will let you know about it.
[Read the Rules!] - [Email the Moderators] |
anter
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Posted - 2005.03.26 21:36:00 -
[28]
It's really dodgy where you draw the line. There was people selling in game item DB for webpage developers for isk, some 3rt party map tool (I think it was) had some option to pay it for isk and there is other such "out of game services/tools" sold for isk.
Lets take that in game object DB for webpages that was being sold as example. It's not really different than someone selling eve time cards. Then if it was made illegal these who made it would have option to share it free and get nothing for the effort doing it or not share it and no one else would benefit of it and everyone would have to make their own.
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Avon
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Posted - 2005.03.26 23:23:00 -
[29]
Firstly, thank you wayz for you well thought out and constructive comments.
So, if the outcome of this is that you can sell time codes for isk the following will be ok?
I decide to buy 100mil isk.
I can:
a/ go to ebay and buy it breaking the eula
or
b/ buy a timecard and sell it in game, not violating the eula.
Both ways I am buying isk with out of game money.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Nyphur
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Posted - 2005.03.26 23:37:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Wrangler
The GMs are currently discussing how to handle the sale of ETCs, pending the outcome of their discussion we will not allow selling these items on the EVE Message Boards.
If they will allow selling ETCs for real life money it is unlikely that you will be allowed to sell it on the EVE Message Boards, since selling anything for real life money on the market forums isn't allowed. I can't say how we will handle selling ECTs for ISK (in game currency).
This all may change in the future, but this is how it is for now. When something is decided we will let you know about it.
I don't see why this is even being considered. Not many things can truly destroy a game, but this is one of them. If you allow people to buy game time cards for ISK, CCP will not lose any money but the game economy will shift in favour of people who have money to burn outside the game.
"Hey, where'd you get your battleship?" "Oh, I worked for an agent for a month to get up the ISK. I finally got my battleship." "Hahaha, I just sold someone a game time card I bought for ú20 yesterday for 100mil and bought a battleship with it."
And your second paragraph doesn't make sense. The selling of ETCs for real life money? Surely you mean ISK. CCP sell them for real life money already. That is not the issue. Purchasing a game time card for real money and then selling it on for real money is not only perfectly legal but CCP can't do a damn thing about it. And if they try, they will likely have a lawsuit on their hands. They produce the product but unless they state that the item is not for resale, there isn't a damn thing they can do about it and the case wouldn't even get to court. If they want to ban people selling on their products, which is rediculously childish of a company to do, they have every right to but they have to ensure that they make it clear that the item is not for resale before the transaction is made. It's the law.
Selling them for real life money on the forum, however, is another issue. You're right in saying that the current rules prohibit it just as much as they prohibit selling an Eve T-Shirt for cash. The market forums are for selling in-game items for in-game currency.
Here is a link to the online store for Eve-Online, specifically the Game Time Card section. Again, I say I have no idea what lunacy beholds the GMs if they are even considering allowing this, so I'll lay a scenario on you. Follow that link and look at the prices. Alright, so the 100 day game time card will cost me ú27.17. I wander over to the bank and see that I have ú300 to spare. I go into the Eve online store and purchase ten 100 day game time cards. A week later, they arrive. I log into the game and sell them for 100 million ISK each, trading the code on each of the cards for the in-game 100 million ISK with some people who trust me.
What is the net result of this chain of events made possible by the allowance of selling game time cards for ISK? OK, let's check on CCP's side. CCP lost one thousand days of customer payments from people I gave the cards to but they gained my ú300, which means they have a net loss compared to normal operations of ú0. To them, it's as if the people who used the codes had bought the card, it doesn't matter who buys them.
Now let's check on the side of the people who bought the cards. They are down 100 million ISK each and up ú27.17 worth of eve online subscription payments. They have just sold 200 million ISK for real life cash. But wait.. that's against the EULA! Now, just for completeness, we'll look at how I'm doing. I'm down about ú272 and up one billion ISK. ONE BILLION ISK. I have just BOUGHT a billion ISK with real life cash, again something that is starkly against the EULA.
In short, if you allow the sale of game time cards for ISK, you will be allowing, by proxy, this. Think hard. Do you really want to condone that? The selling of ISK on ebay for real money? You can kid yourself that this is different but it's not, it's just an alternate route for the same transaction.
You want to give rich people an advantage in the game and let people who make a lot of money in-game to play for free? I already know the outcome of the GM's discussion.
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