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Jhan Niber
Big Johnson's
12
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Posted - 2012.10.23 17:52:00 -
[31] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:Elias Greyhand wrote:The purpose was to inform people about what's going on in the world.
Really? People don't care unless it directly impacts upon their own tiny bubble-world in a meaningful way and that's the kind of information people - except stalkers - can't provide. You make a valid point. I think I would be the exception to that rule. I often find myself deeply invested in the events of the world around me even if the impact these events have on me personally is minimal. Jhan Niber wrote:
The idea is to do things anonymously. You shouldn't be able to publicly point at an individual as being a member of anonymous. The actions of anonymous are carried out by everyone and no one. I mean, one of the inspirations for the way anonymous operates was in Fight Club, and the first rule is you don't talk about it.
The other thing that just seems incomprehensible is that you're complaining that people didn't just believe you on your word. How you don't understand that people are skeptical after playing EVE is just revealing your naivete. Again, you shouldn't be able to point to anyone individual as having been instrumental in an event.
~Not Talking About It~ goes against the core ideologies of Anonymous as a whole. Anonymous is about free knowledge, A flow of information to generate consensus. Then again Anonymous can (Often Does) mean different things to different people. At this point I am unsure if you are trolling or simply view anonymous in a way that falls outside what the consensus is. When you mentioned fight club that was a red flag for me and really undid any argument you might have had because now people will probably make assumptions about you and figure you are just trolling or "alternative" in your perceptions of Anonymous.
How do you not see the inspiration from Fight Club in anonymous, when anonymous is putting out videos for a "project mayhem" as part of the efforts of gathering up credit card information, which is referenced right in the video you linked. I'm not saying it's an exact copy of the organization in the movie because obviously it also takes inspiration from V, but the point of anonymous is to be anonymous. You're putting a face on it, yours, by continuing to bring up the claim that you were a hacktivist with whatever work took place in the Arab countries and being upset that you're not being given credit for your work. That just comes across as you trying to elevate yourself and profit from it, regardless of whether that was your intention. |
Borascus
Red Core
Paradigm Shift Alliance
78
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Posted - 2012.10.23 17:54:00 -
[32] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:Borascus wrote:Cassandra Syndrome is a form of Asperger's, but most likely or occam's razor version? People want to refute it for the craic. Quote:It is a principle stating that among competing hypotheses, the one which makes the fewest assumptions should be selected. Also, you do actually risk standing out in a crowd as outrageous. If your ideas are concrete and you believe that the influence was malevolent in any way see someone. You should join a different Hacktivist group EDIT**: Or leave hack groups altogther and become a Jesuit. I have no idea what you are trying to say.
I'm saying that Cassandra Syndrome is: trying to announce something looming and everyone disbelieving you.
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Elias Greyhand
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
19
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Posted - 2012.10.23 18:29:00 -
[33] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:Borascus wrote:Cassandra Syndrome is a form of Asperger's, but most likely or occam's razor version? People want to refute it for the craic. Quote:It is a principle stating that among competing hypotheses, the one which makes the fewest assumptions should be selected. Also, you do actually risk standing out in a crowd as outrageous. If your ideas are concrete and you believe that the influence was malevolent in any way see someone. You should join a different Hacktivist group EDIT**: Or leave hack groups altogther and become a Jesuit. I have no idea what you are trying to say.
He's saying you should become a Jesuit. |
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
561
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Posted - 2012.10.23 18:57:00 -
[34] - Quote
Always agreed with everything you said, and still believe 'Anonymous' has been infiltrated and subverted by the CIA.
Throughout the history of the CIA you'll find hundreds of examples of them sowing dissent and overthrowing foreign governments. They specialize in that sort of thing, and over the last 65 years they have become very good at it. 'Hacktivism' is just a new mask for them to wear.
And when they aren't busy doing the CIAs job in other countries, they're doing things that have no discernible purpose other than to make a case for stricter internet policing in the west.
"It's no use crying over spilt milk, because all the forces of the universe were bent on spilling it." ~William Maugham |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
3123
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Posted - 2012.10.23 19:06:00 -
[35] - Quote
Bane Necran wrote:Always agreed with everything you said, and still believe 'Anonymous' has been infiltrated and subverted by the CIA.
Throughout the history of the CIA you'll find hundreds of examples of them sowing dissent and overthrowing foreign governments. They specialize in that sort of thing, and over the last 65 years they have become very good at it. 'Hacktivism' is just a new mask for them to wear.
And when they aren't busy doing the CIAs job in other countries, they're doing things that have no discernible purpose other than to make a case for stricter internet policing in the west.
IIRC that is the NSA, not the CIA 
"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff-á |
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
562
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Posted - 2012.10.23 19:44:00 -
[36] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:[IIRC that is the NSA, not the CIA
I could be mistaken, but i thought the NSA just monitors and records everything, with their square miles of military grade supercomputers and plethora of satellites and dishes. Was discovered they have a secret database of phone records for every US citizen, and an ex-NSA employee once claimed they've been recording everything online since the late 90's. Seeing as the modern internet was given to the world by DARPA, it very well could have been intended as an intelligence gathering tool from day one.
It's traditionally been the CIA who dealt in propaganda and got closely involved in the politics of other countries, but things may have changed. They probably have new groups known by mysterious acronyms we've never heard of doing all kinds of things.
"It's no use crying over spilt milk, because all the forces of the universe were bent on spilling it." ~William Maugham |
Elias Greyhand
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
19
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Posted - 2012.10.23 20:33:00 -
[37] - Quote
Unless I dreamt it, I was under the impression the NSA was internal and the CIA did the stuff on foreign soil. |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
3131
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Posted - 2012.10.23 20:34:00 -
[38] - Quote
Elias Greyhand wrote:Unless I dreamt it, I was under the impression the NSA was internal and the CIA did the stuff on foreign soil.
And there is no inter agency sharing of information
"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff-á |
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
563
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Posted - 2012.10.23 21:05:00 -
[39] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Elias Greyhand wrote:Unless I dreamt it, I was under the impression the NSA was internal and the CIA did the stuff on foreign soil. And there is no inter agency sharing of information
They don't even share information with the president. Amusingly, Bill Clinton repeatedly tried to get information from the CIA about UFOs and the JFK assassination when he was president, only to be denied by George Bush Senior who was head of the CIA at the time.
They are part of the 'shadow government' Cheney and others have made reference to. The extremely well funded military industrial complex Eisenhower warned everyone might take control of the US and undermine the democratic process/presidency. They don't truly serve US citizens or even America. Just various corporations.
"It's no use crying over spilt milk, because all the forces of the universe were bent on spilling it." ~William Maugham |
Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
404
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Posted - 2012.10.23 21:16:00 -
[40] - Quote
Borascus wrote:
EDIT**: Or leave hack groups altogther and become a Jesuit.
This cracked me up so bad ... hahahaha
Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco:
http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco |
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Sebastian LaFleur
Galactic Shipyards Inc
SONS of BANE
37
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Posted - 2012.10.23 21:17:00 -
[41] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:Sebastian LaFleur wrote:As a rather new member of the forums I gave you the benefit of doubt and read the thread you referred to. Your "evidence" wasn't exactly substantial: an Al-Jazeera slideshow and your own words. So I can't see why anyone should have taken it seriously. And then again, why would you even give a **** what other people think about the Anonymous? In the other thread you said: Xenuria wrote:For you or anybody else to say that Anonymous had nothing to do with the uprisings in the middle east or their subsequent success is not only broadly offensive and ignorant it is insulting to ME as somebody who participating in the uprisings. Isn't participating (whatever that means in this case) in anonymous Anonymous activities in order to get personal recognition very illogical and beside the point of the organisation? This was never about personal recognition, you just chose to interpret it that way. This was always about getting the word out and informing people about what is happening in their world. I was very frustrated back then that people were so quick to doubt me when I had seen first hand and even participated in the arab spring. Don't misunderstand me, I am not trying to say that I am some sort of big freaking deal or that anybody should be impressed with me. In truth the work I did and my level of participation was dwarfed by that of those with way more free time and resources then I had. This was and still is about trying to inform people.
First you "inform" people about what you think are the facts, based on one slideshow on a news site and your personal viewpoint. You keep referring to "the OP" (containing the aforementioned sources) and your research (which you do not share). You also make claims about the magnitude of Anonymous' effect in the Arab Spring, without any data to make such an evaluation. Then, when people disagree with you, you invoke a sense of guilt (that people are offensive or ignorant by disagreeing) and sanctify the topic by saying "There are just some things you do NOT troll about, and what Anonymous has done for the middle east is one of those things.", effectively moving the issue outside of dialog (in your mind at least).
The points I drew out above show, in my opinion, that your claim of "informing" people about facts, providing sources to backup those facts and trying to further propagation of information, are baseless.
Then you go on to say "And yet we have toppled dictatorships..." (underlining mine), identifying yourself with a force that you hold in high regard. Then there's the comment I already quoted above, in which you take people's criticism personally (that claiming something contrary to your, unsupported, claims is insulting to you). These, again in my opinion, show that you have vested personal interest in the subject and the issue is no longer only about Anonymous and it's actions, but to some degree about your personal integrity.
Months pass. You return with a recent documentary (which arguably shows that Anonymous had influence on the revolutions that happened in northern Africa and Middle East) with personal anecdote about how you are repeatedly misunderstood in your life (either inadvertently or deliberately).
There's my basis on interpreting that you have a personal agenda in this matter, and it's not just my choice. If you want, like you say, inform people, I would suggest that you:
1) Provide substantial evidence to your claims (the demography of EVE players and forum posters consists of quite old people with enough life-experience to be sceptical about baseless claims and have enough media-literacy to be able to distinguish between sources and their content).
2) Respond to scepticism in an impersonal matter. You are not Anonymous. If I were to say "Anonymous sucks", it isn't projected to you by any other means than your own.
---
About the topic itself: while I recognize that Anonymous has supported Arab Spring and made statements about political matters in a way that "The Man" can not ignore, I would be on my toes about any group that consists of people, who initially have no power, being empowered but not being held accountable for their actions. If Anonymous screws up in a way that hurts real people and not just their computers (and personally, I think it's just a matter of time and hopefully I'm wrong), who takes the blame? The anonymous member?
While Wikileaks and Julian Assange were talking about the free flow of information and toppling corrupt governments, real people were in danger because of the information they leaked (namely local informants in volatile countries such as Pakistan, whose names were leaked). Everything has a price someone has to pay and it's not up to hackers to decide who. The world is more than zeros and ones and as magnificent as the Internet is, you can't understand everything through it.
And while some people identifying themselves with the Anonymous boast their victory for toppling dictatorships, people in Tunis (for example) are still killed in political rivalries. Uploading democracy doesn't happen over night (or over year...). It still remains to be seen what the long term consequences of the Arab Spring are, and it seems to me that understanding long term issues is not something the Anonymous can help us with.
The X-Instinct expands life. The X-Instinct expands consciousness. The X-Instinct is vital to space travel. Travel without moving.-á |
Xenuria
Marcabian 5th Invasion Fleet
616
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Posted - 2012.10.23 21:21:00 -
[42] - Quote
Gah wall of text deflecting and spinning.
Seriously guys, just come out and say what you said when I disbanded Hydra reloaded.
"We didn't listen"
Xenuria CSM 8 |
Sebastian LaFleur
Galactic Shipyards Inc
SONS of BANE
37
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Posted - 2012.10.23 21:29:00 -
[43] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:Gah wall of text deflecting and spinning.
Communication is a two way street.
The X-Instinct expands life. The X-Instinct expands consciousness. The X-Instinct is vital to space travel. Travel without moving.-á |
Borascus
Red Core
Paradigm Shift Alliance
78
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Posted - 2012.10.24 11:17:00 -
[44] - Quote
I worked out near Samlesbury for a while, met a few influential figures, from the other side of Preston too, one of them knew or knows a former Home Secretary.
But for the life of me, the phrase Guar has never meant anything more than an insult.
As for the big reveal from Xenuria here, there is a reason people don't listen. They either take part or know better.
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Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
404
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Posted - 2012.10.24 14:57:00 -
[45] - Quote
I feel dirty posting here ...
THis is my message of love to you all
Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco:
http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco |
Xenuria
Marcabian 5th Invasion Fleet
617
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Posted - 2012.10.26 16:37:00 -
[46] - Quote
I am curious as to how many of you would actually take me at my word next time I made a serious statement or claim? I realize that the eve community is no stranger to elaborate deception but I am also not your typical human being either.
Xenuria CSM 8 |
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