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NoHawker
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Posted - 2005.03.31 05:19:00 -
[1]
Jump gates. Their the cause for most of PvP problems. Jump gates promote ganking and blobbing. In stead of jump gates every ship should have jump engines and no not a jump engine module either. Jump engines can be activated any where and upon activation it will take you to the next system in a random spot.
PvP should be something similar to submarine warfare. You jump into a system largely undetected and will remain undetected if you run completely silent. There are some tools at your disposal to find other silent ships. Before we begin let me quickly summarize the new terms.
Noise û Basically how easily your ship can be found out. The greater the noise you make the easier you will be spot on the solar system map. Larger ships are generally noisier by nature. The type of activity you're engaged in makes you noisier as well say firing weapons, activating miners, engaging warp drive or using active scanners. Here is a list of activity from most silent to least silent.
Passive Sensors Thrusters Micro Warp Drives Warping Activating Miners Active Sensors Firing Weapons
Passive Scanners û These are relatively quite. They are shorter ranged and less effective at spotting other ships in the solar system. Their advantage is if you spot a ship with just your passive scanners chances are he hasn't detected you and you have a much greater chance of warping right on top of him for the ambush.
Active Scanners û They work by sending a loud pulse across the solar system. They are very effective at detecting ships but lights you up like a Christmas Tree. Chances are great you will detect a ship but the chances are just about the same he found you thanks to your loud ping across the system.
Probes û The best way to scan specific parts of the solar system say at asteroid belts or planets and moons. They are hard to detect and very good at detecting other ships. Their drawback is you need to know where to deploy them and they take a short while to arrive at their destination.
Warp Trail û Is the signature left behind when activating your warp engines. This is important for tracking down where a ship warped of too. Warp Trails can be automatically followed.
The idea here is once a enemy ship has been found you can warp right on top of it. Jump Engines take 2 minutes to fire up again, you have 2 minutes to play cat and mouse. When a ship jumps into a system all other ships detected the signature but you have to pinpoint the exact coordinates.
Every ship can disrupt Jump Engines with out modules but success depends on several factors. The closer you are to your target the greater the chance to disrupt jump engines. Larger ships jump engines will be harder to scramble then smaller ship jump engines so the idea here is that it may take a few Frigates to jump scramble a single Battleship unless you get lucky, you may need only 2 Frigates. Larger ships have stronger jump scrambling abilities but they have slower lock times.
Now PvP is actually fun for every one, gankers and lone wolfs alike. It will be a game that requires skill, participation, experience, thinking and sometimes a little bit of luck. It will no longer be about camping a gate with 20 buddies while surfing **** sites and talking BS (not Battleship) on TS.
Direct all questions to me please, I have all your answers in my left pocket... thank you.
What are you going to do? I'm going to kill them all sir |
Shadar Ishaan
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Posted - 2005.03.31 05:28:00 -
[2]
I like it. It sounds much more interesting and fun.
And if it ever makes it, it'd be post-Kali. ---------------
Item Trading Post
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Lygos
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Posted - 2005.03.31 06:03:00 -
[3]
That all looks strangely familiar somehow..
Always nice to see a likeminded spirit however.
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Dante Alighieri
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Posted - 2005.03.31 06:25:00 -
[4]
Some nice ideas there
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OsAC
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Posted - 2005.03.31 07:39:00 -
[5]
Hi
yea nice ideas , agreed :lol:
just to say ... PvP is broken cos it's 95% gang vs gang and who wins ???
haha ,well the gang with more players
and thats EVE PvP
no skills no nothing just big numbers
dont u think so
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Dracolich
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Posted - 2005.03.31 09:15:00 -
[6]
Not necessarily the biggest gang win. It's still good tactics, a well mixed fleet, experience, and the coolheaded that wins - mostly.
Some okay thoughts, NoHawker, but it seems mostly to support flying smaller ships.
Another thing, that jump drive thing, how do u suggest it should work, I mean, if its instantanious(after the two mins), how should it be possible to catch someone; if he/she is running, I don't think he minds that he is jumped to a random spot in the next system; two mins is not enough to find someone and how long will it take to find the warp/jump trail?. I.e. 1 person has been in system for more than 2 mins, enemy arrives, starts using the passive scanner, but to no prevail, coz the local chat kinda gives them away already, the hunted warps off, they still have to wait to jump coz its not yet two mins ago they jumped. I can only see your system works if local chat is removed, but then, who wants to scan x number of systems just in case there are an enemy in that system?, especially if the hunted belongs to a small corp; hey I am fighting an alliance=many targets, so it will be somewhat valid to us, but not them, I believe.
Gankers can still be avoided, unless you are too slow, or dumb.
I do agree that too small a portion of the space in Eve is actually used.
Just my two isk.
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.03.31 09:34:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 31/03/2005 09:34:44 Well, the spirit behind it is good. It sounds nice.
But as shown above it would rather mean no pvp at all anymore except pre-arranged.
And 2 mins for every jump ? Thats gonna be horrible on tavel time
I like the idea of moving combat away from gates (I already kill about 50% of my targets away from gates btw), but I'd say rather then nerfing gates one should look into making combat in other places in a system more possible and especially more desirable.
Like letting mobile warp disruptors jank people out of warp in midspace, or bringing in anchorable defensive modules or whatever. As it is, 90% of traffic in any system in Eve is from gate A to gate B or gate B to gate A. Remove that and you remove any decent chance of combat against someone's wish as well. _______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues. |
H0ot
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Posted - 2005.03.31 09:44:00 -
[8]
Originally by: OsAC just to say ... PvP is broken cos it's 95% gang vs gang and who wins ???
haha ,well the gang with more players
and thats EVE PvP
no skills no nothing just big numbers
Is this your first MMO? Because everyone I have played prior to EVE works like this. Other games are no different.
(\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Dloan
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Posted - 2005.03.31 09:50:00 -
[9]
Excellent post. I've had similar thoughts for a while. The thrill of the chase is missing from Eve because that side of the game simply doesn't exist. Chasing people is tedious and generally a waste of time. If they run away, the chances of actually catching them are pretty much nill if they have any idea at all what they're doing. I'd like this side of the game opened up and your ideas are good suggestions as to the way to go.
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Gothmatar Ravenblade
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Posted - 2005.03.31 09:52:00 -
[10]
The use of jumpdrives sounds neat but wouldn't make this the universe even smaller ?Unless you put in some kind of cooldown time until you can jump further and/or make jump drives only capable of travelling between two linked systems.
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Ray Laria
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Posted - 2005.03.31 10:57:00 -
[11]
i agree great ideas this would make the ceptor very very hard to kill
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Vilserx
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Posted - 2005.03.31 11:37:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Gothmatar Ravenblade The use of jumpdrives sounds neat but wouldn't make this the universe even smaller ?Unless you put in some kind of cooldown time until you can jump further and/or make jump drives only capable of travelling between two linked systems.
He said 2 minutes cooldown. ---------------------------
VSX EVE Design |
Gothmatar Ravenblade
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Posted - 2005.03.31 11:39:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Vilserx
Originally by: Gothmatar Ravenblade The use of jumpdrives sounds neat but wouldn't make this the universe even smaller ?Unless you put in some kind of cooldown time until you can jump further and/or make jump drives only capable of travelling between two linked systems.
He said 2 minutes cooldown.
Aye, I see, I am blind sometimes.
2 mins.? Weeee. That should solve alot of problems including instas too ^_^
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IamBen
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Posted - 2005.03.31 11:39:00 -
[14]
Not everyone camps gates as their major way of doing battle- but is probaly the most prolific manner of combat in EVE.
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meowcat
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Posted - 2005.03.31 11:39:00 -
[15]
some interesting ideas there
~~~~)\~~~~~\o/~~~~
yeah but no but yeah but no but |
Hydroponica
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Posted - 2005.03.31 11:53:00 -
[16]
some good ideas in here ***********************************
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Thyro
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Posted - 2005.03.31 12:00:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Thyro on 31/03/2005 12:06:50 Just one small detail... noise
sound as we know and ear isn't possible in space therefore noise only if radio/comms/active radar-waves are propagated in space... then yes the "noise" term could be applyed as you described.
Now firing an weapon and listen its sound its just an convinience to make you believe that you are doing something (coz its a game where you are outside the ship).
Anyway in real terms, because outside ur ship you should ear nothing... only inside your ship... and in this case "noise" should not be applied... and no other ship should listen the "noise" of firing weapons.
Same for "warp drives" the noise can be eared inside the ship not outside of it. What you should be able to do if (passive/active sensors) is to trace the warp stream once the ship is activated and warpped away but never during the warm up of the engines.
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Roshan longshot
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Posted - 2005.03.31 12:04:00 -
[18]
instead of Jumpdrives, what about hyper drives? Cant function within so many AU from sun. Have Warp drive still active in system but be able to knock ships out of warp.
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter,pirate[/i] or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box and from this site.
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Hydroponica
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Posted - 2005.03.31 12:27:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Thyro Edited by: Thyro on 31/03/2005 12:06:50 Just one small detail... noise
sound as we know and ear isn't possible in space therefore noise only if radio/comms/active radar-waves are propagated in space... then yes the "noise" term could be applyed as you described.
Now firing an weapon and listen its sound its just an convinience to make you believe that you are doing something (coz its a game where you are outside the ship).
Anyway in real terms, because outside ur ship you should ear nothing... only inside your ship... and in this case "noise" should not be applied... and no other ship should listen the "noise" of firing weapons.
Same for "warp drives" the noise can be eared inside the ship not outside of it. What you should be able to do if (passive/active sensors) is to trace the warp stream once the ship is activated and warpped away but never during the warm up of the engines.
This game has sound? ***********************************
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suas
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Posted - 2005.03.31 12:44:00 -
[20]
Quote: no skills no nothing just big numbers
you play how you play
I will play how I play.
Interesting ideas, however not everyone outblobs.
Just because someone doesn't know how to use a compass... It doesn't make the compass broken.
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Sleazy Cabbie
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Posted - 2005.03.31 13:00:00 -
[21]
I agree that warpgate camping is the source of %99 of the game's sucktasticity.
I suggest making players fight over resources instead. IE, fight over minerals or fields, rather than camp gates.
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Gothmatar Ravenblade
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Posted - 2005.03.31 13:18:00 -
[22]
Heh, on the other hand, there are some rare instances, I have been killed once during doing an agent mission in 0.4 in deep space by a lonesome wolf in his elite frigate.
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Karistis
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Posted - 2005.03.31 13:18:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Thyro Edited by: Thyro on 31/03/2005 12:06:50 Just one small detail... noise
sound as we know and ear isn't possible in space therefore noise only if radio/comms/active radar-waves are propagated in space... then yes the "noise" term could be applyed as you described.
Now firing an weapon and listen its sound its just an convinience to make you believe that you are doing something (coz its a game where you are outside the ship).
Anyway in real terms, because outside ur ship you should ear nothing... only inside your ship... and in this case "noise" should not be applied... and no other ship should listen the "noise" of firing weapons.
Same for "warp drives" the noise can be eared inside the ship not outside of it. What you should be able to do if (passive/active sensors) is to trace the warp stream once the ship is activated and warpped away but never during the warm up of the engines.
I think the original poster means that you would create SENSOR noise. Firing weapons and such would make you more easily visible on radar because it would increase your signature radius maybe? _________________________________________ 2005.01.17 22:04:22 combat Chackle [PUSY] perfectly runs from you, wrecking for 1500 cowardice. |
Latex Mistress
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Posted - 2005.03.31 13:42:00 -
[24]
I think you'll see a new game before things like this come out.
Pity, too - as there are some outstanding ideas here. They would really add to the depth/immersion of the game by giving people a healthy respect for the size of space.
If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
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Dloan
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Posted - 2005.03.31 13:59:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Dloan on 31/03/2005 14:00:19
Originally by: suas Just because someone doesn't know how to use a compass... It doesn't make the compass broken.
Just because someone's magnetised a needle, floated it on water and called it a compass... It doesn't mean you can't build a better compass.
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Liquid Metal
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Posted - 2005.03.31 14:55:00 -
[26]
some very nice ideas here, im all for them, should add an extra dimension to the game. I'd look forward to it if these were ever implemented
"A strong man stands tall against all others, everything else is just a delusion for the weak.."
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NoHawker
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Posted - 2005.04.01 04:35:00 -
[27]
Quote: Some okay thoughts, NoHawker, but it seems mostly to support flying smaller ships.
It doesn't this system doesn't favor one ship over the other, each ship will have a role. Frigates will make the best scouts, Cruisers will play a middle role being good at scouting and tackling, Battleships will be the fire power.
Quote: Another thing, that jump drive thing, how do u suggest it should work, I mean, if its instantanious(after the two mins), how should it be possible to catch someone; if he/she is running
This can always be addressed. One idea is the more you run or activate ship equipment such as miners or weapons the longer you delay the activation of your jump engines, this can easily be role played. So if you warp from place to place in the solar system instead of taking 2 minutes to activate your jump engines it will take longer. The concept is by making your opponent move around by chasing him the longer the window to finally entrap him.
Quote: And 2 mins for every jump ? Thats gonna be horrible on tavel time
These numbers are all variables the can and will be tweaked most likely as this PvP system gets fleshed out. A concept that may work is that every jump doesn't have to be from one adjacent star to the next, a jump may take you across 2 star systems. Making a jump opens a wormhole that lingers in space for a short will and will be easily detected across the entire system. All pursuers will have to do is warp to the wormhole and jump in. The pray will still keep the advantage since he is ahead of pursuers but will need to be quick and nimble to finally shake his pursuers for good.
Quote: Just one small detail... noise
sound as we know and ear isn't possible in space therefore noise only if radio/comms/active radar-waves are propagated in space... then yes the "noise" term could be applyed as you described.
I didn't mean noise literally, I should have said stealth instead. Some ships are stealthier by nature and some activities make you less stealthier then others. Just substitute noise for stealth.
CCP really needs to revamp the PvP system as it is now it's just stale and broke. Where is the hunt and chase? PvP needs more depth and the camping, blobbing and ganking needs to go. I remember two years ago CCP said EVE will not be like other MMORPG's where it's about spawn camping and ganking, it's been two years now and EVE is still like the other MMORPG's in this regard. We need a drastic change a new formula.
What are you going to do? I'm going to kill them all sir |
Maxtor
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Posted - 2005.04.01 06:35:00 -
[28]
Actually, the term "noise" isn't that far off. In physics, "noise" can refer to background radiation; ie: I can't determine if this star has a planet or not because the data is noisy". Ship modules, especially ones that use significant amounts of energy would create some sort of interference in the space around them. Shields alone would probably cause significant distortions.
Personally, I love the idea. PvP will move to the proper locations û like outside a POS if that station is being fought over, rather than outside a gate. Not sure if I want to lose the highways and trans-region gates, though.
However, you are proposing a very different game. The Eve universe is split into solar systems, but the best way your plan would work is to remove those divides, and make the game more realistic by utilizing a single, united universe. That type of universe would have to wait for Eve 2. The system you propose is still possible in this game (it would change only travel methods, not how the universe is arranged), but it would require a lot of work, and it would still have drastic results.
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siim
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Posted - 2005.04.01 06:46:00 -
[29]
Originally by: OsAC Hi
yea nice ideas , agreed :lol:
just to say ... PvP is broken cos it's 95% gang vs gang and who wins ???
haha ,well the gang with more players
and thats EVE PvP
no skills no nothing just big numbers
dont u think so
winning fights outnumbered aint that unrealistic
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Mr Monk
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Posted - 2005.04.01 07:32:00 -
[30]
This is pretty similar to what I've thought since I started playing Eve a few months ago. I liked the old Elite system so this is pretty similar.
Every ship has a jump drive. You buy the ship and get a standard drive. The drive is baiscally like a module and each ship only has 1. It can be changed at any time later for a better one much the same as any other module.
Introduce jump navigation, gets you closer to target in system - planets and the star could be vaild jump targets.
Each drive could have a range in LY based say maybe on cap or some sort of fuel and the specifications of the drive. Maybe you have to be at 100% Cap to jump and it uses a percentage of that during the jump depending on how close you go to max range on the jump. Or maybe any jump uses 100% of your cap no matter how far you go, I think I'd prefer the later.
So to jump you open the map, the systems in range are high lighted, you click on one to target the sun, zoom in if you wanna target a planet whatever, then jump. Based on your skills, ship, luck you enter the system at a location 'near' to the target and from there you do all the other normal stuff.
Obviously lots of ideas, thought would have to go itno it but I still think it'd be more interesting than the gate/highways we have. Maybe the gates could be retained for garanteed jump location, no cap usage travel.
Anyway time will tell.
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