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arjun
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Posted - 2005.04.01 05:44:00 -
[31]
as said earlier: smartbombs are as samrt as their users. powerful weapons if used correctly but with limitations and dangers.
i remember an incident of a bout 18 months ago. i was hunting in my first apoc at a spawn with 7 nice npc which liked to come close. i started the 2 large smarties and waited for the npc to pop. another bs comes in, 20 km away and watches. then suddenly he fired his mwd and aproached me. that dirty pig. i barely saved my ship by logging off.
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Smackanastoroid
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Posted - 2005.04.01 07:41:00 -
[32]
Hmm interesting thread.
Thats all the more reason to fix this bug. It seems simply equiping a smart bomb is a disadvantage to anyone in empire space..I would seriously dout that was intended. The dev are busy people and thats why we chat about it here to get their attention..makes sense to me to change them. Look at torps splash damage now..not the same is it.
look out! Astoroid..aaaaaaaa |
Matthew
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Posted - 2005.04.01 08:56:00 -
[33]
 Originally by: Toni saliva
I dissagree completely. Usagi here lost alot of time when the game capped him and he should be compensated..like anyone who has had the same problem. If you would rather use your own drones or lock them one by one go right ahead but you should be able to use a smart bomb. Usagi here is the victom of a classic development over sight and I'm afraid the problem is not solved.We players need to get loud about it.
The game only capped him because he did something he's not supposed to do - damage an innocent party in empire space. Sure, he may not have realised, sure it sucks. But you can't just run around replacing the stuff of everyone who made a mistake or did something silly. Heck, if the GM's started doing that, you'd get people smart-bomb camping 1.0 gates, then petitioning for their ships back after they get their kill.
In empire space, you have to watch your fire. It's your responsibility to make sure innocents don't sustain "collateral damage". In this situation, any area-of-effect weapon like a smartbomb is going to be very risky to use.
Originally by: Smackanastoroid
Hmm interesting thread.
Thats all the more reason to fix this bug. It seems simply equiping a smart bomb is a disadvantage to anyone in empire space..I would seriously dout that was intended. The dev are busy people and thats why we chat about it here to get their attention..makes sense to me to change them. Look at torps splash damage now..not the same is it.
Yes, but smartbombs are fundamentally different to torpedos. Torpedos are a direct damage weapon that had an area-of-effect tacked on. Removing the area of effect solved a problem without fundamentally changing the nature or usefulness of the torpedo as a weapon. The smartbomb is fundamentally an area-of-effect weapon, hence you have to be careful of what's in the area-of-effect when you activate it.
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lythos miralbar
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Posted - 2005.04.01 10:01:00 -
[34]
Edited by: lythos miralbar on 01/04/2005 10:01:21
changing the mechanics of a smart bomb so it didnt dammage gang mates would suck IMHO..
The smart bomb releases a pulse of "destructive power" from the activating ship, there is simply no logic that could be given to explain how that "destructive force" magicly misses gang mates within its area of effect.
Yeah sure area of effect was removed from torpedos, but you can say that "although the torpedo creates an extremely destructive blast, the effect is quite concentrated resulting in a very small area of effect (the target ship only)"
The thing that makes eve so great is that things like this do happen. Players aren't shielded from thier own daftness in any way.
The description of the smart bomb says that it emits an onmidirectional pulse dammaging all ships within its area of effect. And we all know concord will open a can of whoop ass on anyone who agresses someone in empire space 'illegaly'.
Doesnt take much to figure out what is going to happen when you smart bomb someone does it.... all you have to do is think about it for a sec and its pretty obvious.
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Smackanastoroid
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Posted - 2005.04.01 20:32:00 -
[35]
Fair point but eventualy game play come to bear and looking at Usagi's case as a class example the game play was devalued when it didnt need to be. Changing smart bombs to operate more realisticly (they should be able to decide between friend and opponent this game takes place in the distant future) would only serve to enhance the fun of the game. I dout Usagi has posted again and wonder if he even plays anymore. CCP lost real life money is my bet when they didnt need to. 
look out! Astoroid..aaaaaaaa |
TheKiller8
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Posted - 2005.04.01 21:09:00 -
[36]
Smartbombs - The fastest selfdestruct in Eve!
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Nyxus
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Posted - 2005.04.01 21:30:00 -
[37]
I feel for the guy. Nothing else does splash damage that can kill you (look at the graphics on a torp explosion, it doesnt trigger Concordokken) why should a smartbomb?
Point being, it shouldn't. Smartbombs should be fixed to not hit gangmates/allies/concord structures.
And puh-lease, all you folks who say "u h4v3 to beh sm4tzors to u53 t3h b0mBz0rs lolololool" give me a break! The same argument was used for torpedoes doing splash damage - and it was fixed because it wasn't good business. Period. Getting ganked by Concordokken through unintended splash damage is lame and bad for subscription retention, whether it's from a SB or a torpedo.
And for those who quote "reality" arguments, yes it is a large destructive pulse radiating out from your ship. But sending my allies/Concord the specific frequency modulations of the SB allows them to produce an inverse modulation in thier shield harmonics cancelling out the explosive force and doing them no damage- i.e. in a sci-fi space game, gameplay>>>reality.
If I target concord/gates and activate a module - I deserve to get ganked. If I activate an area of effect module and a drone happens to pass a bit too close should not trigger a concord resonse. ECM burst doesn't, neither should the SB.
Nyxus
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Laendra
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Posted - 2005.04.01 21:42:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Joan Smith
for FFS dont use smart bomb in empire!!!
here my saying
"smart bomb in empire isnt smart AT ALL"
remmber that as joan saying and u wont get ganked
Hmmm, used to be using them in 0.0 wasn't all that safe either, if you were around an NPC station. Don't know if that is still the case or not, but I don't think I really want to test that....
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Usagi Yojim
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Posted - 2005.04.01 21:51:00 -
[39]
Nah, I'm still here. The gang member was kind enough to finish the mission for me and it carried a 10M isk bonus for completion, that + 7M insurance, and reprocessing my entire inventory of spare parts let me buy another battlecruiser.
I almost EBAY'ed 100M isk, but passed on that.
Just a point. One responder to this post said basicaly I deserved it because thats the way of the game, then related a story where somebody purposefully warped into their smartbomb field and he logged to save his ship ... that reads as somebody tried to grief him, and he saved himself by exploiting. So be thoughtfull of your position before you fly off and think I deserved it.
That loss wasn't as catastrophic as when my character was stolen (name Callahan) 2 years ago ... then I did quit for two years and have just recently came back. Still irritated though whenever I see my old toon log-in.
The point on the smart bomb, 99% of all mmorpgs don't let you damage your group members -- even if using AE damage. And those that do, fix'em quick because they are bugs.
Anybody think otherwise ... Just remember, you can fly your ship straight through somebody elses laser beam or stream of 450mm rounds projectiles or hybrids and not take damage -- thats not real life either.
It's just something that needs to be fixed, or removed.
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Skinman
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Posted - 2005.04.01 22:05:00 -
[40]
For all those asking for the SB's to not hit gang members I can only say this..
DON'T NERF THE SMARTS, JUST LEARN HOW TO USE THEM. Failing that DON'T use them. Please dev's, do not nerf more things in Eve because someone messed up once.
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Usagi Yojim
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Posted - 2005.04.01 22:17:00 -
[41]
Tell me how making it that Smart bombs don't harm Gang Members is a nerf?
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Smackanastoroid
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Posted - 2005.04.01 22:18:00 -
[42]
They are nerfed as it is..it would be nice to see their full potential.
look out! Astoroid..aaaaaaaa |
Skinman
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Posted - 2005.04.01 22:24:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Skinman on 01/04/2005 22:25:15
Edited by: Skinman on 01/04/2005 22:25:01
Because it a reduction in they way that SB's where originaly intended to be used.
If you are soloing away from Concord protected entities, then smart away (but watch your own drones)
If not, then.. well your call..
I remember my first day in PIE, when asked what my loadout was in my omen. The cries of 'OMG!' and subsequent explainations where enough to make GO AND DO SOME MORE RESEARCH on what I had actually loaded on my ship and the consequences of said modules.
This game grabs my attention because things like this happen. It's supposed to be unsafe, it's supposed to be exciting, it's supposed to make you think twice before you do anything.
Take that away, and you have nothing more than a poor version of elite where everything always goes to plan.... sorry but thats not my idea of fun.
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Amicus
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Posted - 2005.04.02 02:51:00 -
[44]
This topic brings to mind a recent suggestion I made in the Ideas Forum. (See  Defender Smart Bombs û a missile only defense.) In that thread we discussed:
PROPOSAL: Introduce a new line of smart bombs that only damage missiles
This new line of smart bombs would not replace the current version of the smart bomb, just provide an optional, very limited type of smart bomb. The idea was to give non-missile turret ships something approaching the defender missile for defense against missiles.
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Alexander Kiernov
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Posted - 2005.04.02 03:39:00 -
[45]
I'd say give the guy a free BS and a large hellstorm instead... 
Nah, seriously, I've done the same too... And I was so ******* mad I lost my rupture I seriously thought of quitting, but here I am, almost a year later... :)
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Fubar Balagan
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Posted - 2005.04.02 04:06:00 -
[46]
U live, U learn.
Now can we ban the idiots from EVE please. 
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Nyxus
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Posted - 2005.04.02 04:40:00 -
[47]
Amicus
I would wholeheartedly support that idea. So many ships have a "utility" high slot that are good for nothing. They are meant for SB's, but as SB's are useless 98% of the time I would LOVE to have some type of missle defence.
Nyxus
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Toni saliva
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Posted - 2005.04.02 05:06:00 -
[48]
Fubar Belegan "U live, U learn.
Now can we ban the idiots from EVE please. "
Did you just call some of these posters idiots?! Go f**C yourself or add a constructive view.
As for Amicus interesting idea what do you guys think about a phalanx style weapon system in the place of or to enhance smart bombs 
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Kaalise
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Posted - 2005.04.02 12:18:00 -
[49]
To those citing LoS on weapons, that's an issue with the game engine.
To those citing the removal of AoE on torps consider this, once you've fired a torp you have no control over them at all, given the flight to target time on a torp this gives a good window to get into position to bring Concord down on you. When you trigger a Smartbomb you do so knowing full well what is within range. Therefore it is your own fault, get over it.
One thing I would like to see however is SB activation and de-activation brought in line, currently they actives "fire then charge" like a gun but de-activate "charge then fire" like an armour repairer.
.+
(_) Fetch the holy hand grenade |
Suze'Rain
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Posted - 2005.04.03 01:24:00 -
[50]
Personally, I'd like to see a nice simple solution to the smartbombs to prevent accidents.
"proximity warning!"
A simple warning that pops up if you're running a SB and a Can/PC/Gate/Flying Pig chances into your zone of effect - SB detonation is delayed until you close the warning box with it's "continue YES/NO" option. click yes, and well, then it's the darwin awards for you.
Same as hitting fire on a turret comes up with a warning. Bingo - SBs turn from the Eve equivalent of russian roulette into a weapon that can be used properly without a warping-in player landing on top of you or the likes wrecking your ship at concorde's trigger-happy hands.
S
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Domalais
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Posted - 2005.04.03 02:07:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Usagi Yojim
Tell me how making it that Smart bombs don't harm Gang Members is a nerf?
It's not, its an outrageous boost.
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Skinman
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Posted - 2005.04.03 03:24:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Skinman on 03/04/2005 03:25:53
Originally by: Suze'Rain
Personally, I'd like to see a nice simple solution to the smartbombs to prevent accidents.
"proximity warning!"
A simple warning that pops up if you're running a SB and a Can/PC/Gate/Flying Pig chances into your zone of effect - SB detonation is delayed until you close the warning box with it's "continue YES/NO" option. click yes, and well, then it's the darwin awards for you.
Same as hitting fire on a turret comes up with a warning. Bingo - SBs turn from the Eve equivalent of russian roulette into a weapon that can be used properly without a warping-in player landing on top of you or the likes wrecking your ship at concorde's trigger-happy hands.
S
This would negate the use of SB's, as by the time that you have cliked 'yes', the missiles that you where defending against would already have detonated. Option after that would be to check the 'Dont ask me again' box, and your back at square one.
The only solution to this smartbomb problem is simple... learn how and where to use them.
Human intelligence is not based on technological advances, it is based on their ability to adapt to their surroundings.
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Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2005.04.03 05:15:00 -
[53]
Here's yet another of my "totally ******* crazy ideas" which are usually something that I feel would make EVE a much cooler place to live, and would likely cause the CCP programmers to strangle me because of all the extra work I'm trying to put them through.
I say smartbombs should damage anything and everything within their radius, including friends, enemies, and structures (the ship that sets of the smartbomb of course being the one thing that doesn't get damaged.) I think torps should get their proximity damage back. In fact, I think ALL missiles should have proximity damage too, but it would be in accordance with their size, so a rocket would probably have a proximity damage radius of about 200-250 meters. But it would still be significant for a heavy missile. HOWEVER, when you hit your buddy with the smartbomb/torpedo/missile splash, you don't automatically get annhilated by CONCORD. Why? Because CONCORD no longer responds automatically. Because everybody now has a little button, which we shall call the "CONCORD Distress Beacon Button". This button normally sits there, looking kinda like your autopilot button does when it's not active. When your ship or your drones or your stuff get attacked, your CONCORD button suddenly lights up, flashing red or yellow or maybe both. At that point, you can punch your distress beacon and CONCORD will show up and do its thing. If you want (like when your buddy accidentally smartbombed you) you just ignore the damn thing and save CONCORD the trouble (and, more importantly, save your buddy's ship). With this system, maybe we could even make it so that you can get hit by crossfire (which obviously wouldn't be feasible under the current auto-CONCORD system). Or maybe we could leave turrets alone. But my point is the same, the police generally don't show up unless somebody calls 911, so why the **** does CONCORD magically know every time somebody shoots somebody else?
I should be a CCP game-design executive. Until the programmers kills me.
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^^^***---All things serve the Beam---***^^^ |
Ronin Woman
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Posted - 2005.04.04 20:31:00 -
[54]
Fubar
The Idiots comment- that was cold sir. Just because you have the very uber & rare "All Game Knowledge" implant while the rest of us have to learn it, doesn't mean you can rub it in.
Shame on you! Now go to your docking bay & stay there until told you can leave. |
Nyxus
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Posted - 2005.04.04 20:54:00 -
[55]
Quote:
When you trigger a Smartbomb you do so knowing full well what is within range. Therefore it is your own fault, get over it.
Actually - there is a very apreciable gap between activating an SB and it's actual firing. Generally you learn to time it so it actually goes off when you need it. However, if you trigger it, and see your mates hobgoblin drone suggenly zip into range....well, you just hope your insurance is paid up.
Of course, if you USED an SB you would know that, and that it's possible. Instead, you just comment srom your holier-than-thou l33t perch.
Nyxus
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