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Nyphur
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Posted - 2005.05.15 11:55:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Jimblob
1 BS loaded with 4 large smartbombs sits in line of fire of the ubertorps and hopefully gets some of them in blast radius...
best not to shoot at the tower if trying this.
Standard disclaimer applies : I really have no clue what i'm on about
I was planning this myself. Except I was planning on having the tank inside the blast radius and using kinetic smartbombs. My Deimos would have 91.88% kinetic resistance. That would have the tank covered from all directions. Otherwise, I was thinking of positioning 8 smartbombing battleships to roughly cover the tank without getting the tank in the area of effect. That would stand a better chance of working.
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Sakura Yoshida
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Posted - 2005.05.16 08:25:00 -
[62]
wow, that sounds like it was scary, i don't think i could even survive in that, my computer has enough trouble handling a dozen ships, let alone that kind of battle
i'd love to try when i'm a little thougher, though:)
I like drawing
www.technoweyr.co.uk/~stush :D |
Nyphur
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Posted - 2005.05.16 13:42:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Sakura Yoshida
wow, that sounds like it was scary, i don't think i could even survive in that, my computer has enough trouble handling a dozen ships, let alone that kind of battle
i'd love to try when i'm a little thougher, though:)
Hi Stush *waves* :). I think they used a smartbomb tank to destroy all incoming missiles under a certain speed (I'm guessing two 10km smartbombs?) and a remote armour repair system with 8-hardeners in the low slots of an apocalypse to tank the damage. Each ship ran a large solace remote armour repairer and they tried their best to kill everything before it came into range, having their ships fitted out completely for damage with no tanking ability at all. I'm guessing they target-jammed the short-range vessels that managed to get into range before they killed it to reduce the damage taken and cut the optimal range of the long-range enemies down with targetting disruptors to remove their damage altogether, because the NPCs don't move from their old optimal when you do that, do they?
I'm tempted to try this with a dedicated smartbomb ship next to my tank ship, which would have over 90% resistance to the smartbomb damage type. The damage taken would be offset by the increased resistances and damage-taking ability a Deimos with a 1600mm plate and 5 hardeners offers over an apocalypse with 8 hardeners.
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Ghenghiz
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Posted - 2005.05.19 11:28:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Nyphur
At the risk of accusing you guys of using an exploit (which I'm sure you didn't), I find it hard to believe that any kind of tanking system on a battleship could be in place to deal with all of this. It wasn't a simple damage absorbing remote repairing tank, clearly, because an Armageddon is vastly inferior to a Deimos or Zealot for that job and using a Deimos myself, I don't think an Armageddon would be suited to the job at all.
What kind of tank were you fellows running? o_O
This deserves a more detailed insight. Because I will not allow the slightest doubt in peoples minds about the validity of my great team's efforts.
I will not go and spill it out just like this but let me say that smartbombs are indeed the way to go. But i have seen in this thread some suggestions involving smartbombs that are too exotic ( and even too complicated to actually work ) and to be honnest go and try and fit 4 x large SB's and see what it does to your capacitator.
No, better one should think more within oneselfs.
One final hint: SB ships around the tanker lessens the dmg output of the team and also greatens the minimum team size and coordination needed so from my experiance I'd say this is a no go.
When one of you guys hits the mark and guesses/thinks out our method used, ill come forward and confirm it was the method used.
Until that time. Keep those setup plans rollin :-)
Regards,
Ghenghiz
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Elenia Kheynes
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Posted - 2005.05.19 12:51:00 -
[65]
What's ****ing me off m8 is that you showed CLS how to complete the level 10 complex, and to thank you they destroyed your POS in that system that was offline because nobody as using it  (rather than asking you to remove it). And then they used this to threaten Xetic ^^
But heh, you're still the man !  I never thought it was possible, and I'm glad to see I was wrong 
Dear friendly customer... Can I have your money ?
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Ghenghiz
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Posted - 2005.05.19 14:36:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Elenia Kheynes
What's ****ing me off m8 is that you showed CLS how to complete the level 10 complex, and to thank you they destroyed your POS in that system that was offline because nobody as using it (rather than asking you to remove it). And then they used this to threaten Xetic ^^
But heh, you're still the man ! I never thought it was possible, and I'm glad to see I was wrong
Elenia,
You should understand that this thread is not about politics. This thread is about our work on a 10/10 complex mission.
What ever politics involved I am sure they could be discussd out side of this thread. Overmore to close my point I beleive it is important to understand that Cinnander ( CLS ) probably has nothing to do with the recent political developments.
I thank you for you respect for our work but I also kindly ask everyone not to engage into policitcal issues here.
regards,
Ghenghiz
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Sliinky
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Posted - 2005.05.19 16:26:00 -
[67]
Well said Ghenghiz
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2005.05.19 18:02:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Ghenghiz
I will not go and spill it out just like this but let me say that smartbombs are indeed the way to go.
When one of you guys hits the mark and guesses/thinks out our method used, ill come forward and confirm it was the method used.
Until that time. Keep those setup plans rollin :-)
Smartbombs, eh? That's all I needed to know. This is what I would do. I'd run two 10KM smartbombs staggered 50% of the refire delay apart with maximum skills. That would destroy all missiles under about 2.6km/s. Now, cruise missiles can get to about 3km/sec, so we'd still need one hell of a tank. It's pretty simple. You have the tank ship running a full complement of hardeners, and perhaps a 1600MM plate for extra reserve armour, running those two 10km smartbombs. Defenders would be pointless, so I'll ignore those.
Every other ship is set up for damage, to take out enemies as quicckly as possible to prevent them all hitting their optimal range and overwhelming the tank. Each ship runs a remote armour repairer on the extra cap it has. You could also have a hospital ship, a ship set up for capacitor recharging and remote repairing. A dominix filled with cap relays and cap recharger IIs is remarkably impressive for this.
The first thing you do when you get into the complex is attract the enemies to the tank and the whole team starts up the tank and heads directly south. Then if you wanted to be extra sure of getting rid of the missiles headed for tha tank that have reached over 2.6m/s (ones from far away, far up north), all you'd need was one more smartbomber 11-15km north of the tank running one large smartbomb along with his normal setup. This job could even be left to the hospital ship I spoke of earlier.
Now, if targetting disruptors work on NPCs, this gets a lot easier. The combat ships just have EW in their mid slots to cut the targetting distance of the long-range enemies down to below their optimal range, so they won't fire. That or cut their optimal down so they have to move in close or they miss all the time. I'd need details of how NPCs react under these circumstances and if those modules affect NPCs to know if that would work. If it did, you'd either be removing long-range enemies (the toughest ones) from the fire-fight or force them all to move in close range, in which case your combat ships which are all fitted out for damage could destroy them before they closed in enough to deal significant damage.
Am I close? The 10km smartbombs would explain the use of a battleship rather than a HAC as the tank.
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Ghenghiz
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Posted - 2005.05.19 19:15:00 -
[69]
getting closer!
but still you are thinking outside the center ( one has to look more within oneselfs )
you are talking about the speed of enemy projectiles and have thought of an aditional ship to counteract that. Stop that!!
Now think from a center and think on how to counteract any projectile with the speeds CCP has given them. look back from a center and what you can do with that!
Final hint in this post: you are thinking too big!!!! ( too difficult )
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psygnosis
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Posted - 2005.05.19 19:54:00 -
[70]
hmm if the BS that is doing the tanking is moving away with 400+m/s that would make make the speed of aproach of the cruise missiles about 2.6Km/s that way the smartbombs would take all the missiles... then they only need to deal with the dmg dealt by guns....
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2005.05.19 19:56:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Nyphur on 19/05/2005 19:57:22
Originally by: Ghenghiz
getting closer!
Tell me, damnit! :p
Unless you are running three 10km smartbombs with a stndard remote tank, maybe some remote capacitor modules to help you run them.
Or if you were using a T2 AB to kick your speed up, that would help.
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Shin Ra
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Posted - 2005.05.20 01:59:00 -
[72]
How did you tank it? Everyone have full hardners on, and everyone have remote shield/armour reps on?
-----------------------------------------
Heinky> Dont mix eve with rl it can be bad for your health |
Odin Tahmorrex
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Posted - 2005.05.20 06:28:00 -
[73]
And you didn't even invite me Ghenghiz! Shame on you my friend! You too olyyy, you didn't even mention it!!! 2 months later I find out because I'm bored at midnight reading old forums!!!
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Ghenghiz
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Posted - 2005.05.20 06:39:00 -
[74]
moving away from the missile spam is indeed a way to, in relative terms, slow down the incomming projectiles. using this method one needs less SB's to kill everthing inbound.
But still we thought that more SB's is better then less and at times we even chooce not to move at all.
Using exoctic SB's with 10km range would be hard to get by ( if i am not mistaken ) and if a test run would fail its hard to replace. So We used a setup that can be bought on any market.
It requires a little bit of extra training skills though.
So now what we got is a tanker with smartbombs. But not 4 large SB's and no excotic SB's.
But how would the tanker take all the gun fire it is dealt with?
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AlvynNevins
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Posted - 2005.05.20 11:59:00 -
[75]
Well.. did that complex solo in my Condor.
Uhm..
Good job guys 
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psygnosis
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Posted - 2005.05.20 16:43:00 -
[76]
Edited by: psygnosis on 20/05/2005 16:48:40
hmm... if you used like 8 tec II small smartbombs... as a defender missile does 76 exp dmg so it is proberbly safe to think that would take down most missiles, small tec II only do 70 dmg, witch may or may not be able to take down larger missiles like torp or citadel torp ... but as those missiles are slow you would be able to hit them more than one time with the smart bombs before they hit you. cruise missiles would (hopfuly ) be taken down with one blast. incase the cruise missiles can be taken down with a small tech II smart bomb you would run one every second (or a bit more if you want all 8 smart bombs going). this would also alow the apoc to do some armor repairing on its own with spare cap.
incase the small smart bombs will take down cruise missiles the fitting would proberbly be somthing like this
hige:8 small tech 2 smart bombs (proberbly exp think it looked like that in the clip)
med: cap rechargers
low: 1 em hardner, 2 exp harnders 2 kinetic, hardners 1 thermal, and a named large armor repaire.
that would give resistance about 80%emp, 70% exp, 73% kin,and 57% thermal that would make a singel Gist Domination Nephilim do about 25 dmg/sec and a large accommodation repairs 64dmg/sec so in theori he would be able to tank 2 of them on his own. so he needs some remote repairing.... could find out how much that would give as well but dont realy have the time now....
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Elenia Kheynes
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Posted - 2005.05.20 19:09:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Odin Tahmorrex
And you didn't even invite me Ghenghiz! Shame on you my friend! You too olyyy, you didn't even mention it!!! 2 months later I find out because I'm bored at midnight reading old forums!!!
haha 
Anyway, my first alt ctd, my second one didn't have the skills to enter last level 
anyway, lol at the setup with 2 10.5km smarties, I wish we could all afford a 3 billions BS
But heh, some people are getting close from Ghenghiz's setup (that we could call "da ubarrrr setup of doom")
Dear friendly customer... Can I have your money ?
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Ghenghiz
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Posted - 2005.05.20 20:18:00 -
[78]
Originally by: AlvynNevins
Well.. did that complex solo in my Condor.
Uhm..
Good job guys
I dont mean to bumb the thread but i have to respond with.
MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
thx for your respect :-)
tell me how you did it?
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2005.05.20 22:05:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Nyphur on 20/05/2005 22:05:02
I don't know what your experience with remote repairers are but if you had all those low slots full of hardeners on the tank, remote repairers would be more than enough to keep it alive under heavy fire after disposing of missiles. That's all there is to it, isn't it? Maximum smartbomb skills, a few named large smartbombs, md slots full of cap rechargers and low slots full of hardeners, then everyone remote repairing you while they destroy everything that gets into range.
I don't see any reason that wouldn't work, so you've stumped me. I've no idea how you did it if not that.
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Ghenghiz
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Posted - 2005.05.20 22:32:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Nyphur
Edited by: Nyphur on 20/05/2005 22:05:02
I don't know what your experience with remote repairers are but if you had all those low slots full of hardeners on the tank, remote repairers would be more than enough to keep it alive under heavy fire after disposing of missiles. That's all there is to it, isn't it? Maximum smartbomb skills, a few named large smartbombs, md slots full of cap rechargers and low slots full of hardeners, then everyone remote repairing you while they destroy everything that gets into range.
I don't see any reason that wouldn't work, so you've stumped me. I've no idea how you did it if not that.
Ok, at the risk of CCP closing this thread for unreasobaly bumping ill give you the word on the tanker. But realsize that tanking alone is not the way.
Our tank used 5 x medium SB's II at a 1.5 second interval. This deals with the majority of incomming projectiles. For the larger incommings we simply moved away from them to make sure that not 1 but more SB's would hit the projectile and it would detonate before it could become a problem.
5 x medium SB II is in terms of cap / dmg / rate of detenation the most effective if i am not mistaken. If one can think of an even better setup dont be shy to tell me please.
cramped with max cap rechare and max hardners most of our other ships were fitted for max dmg with the exception that every dmg ship also had a minimum requirement of at least 1 large remote armor rep.
In our gang we also had 2 dedicated support ships though.. 1 for the tanker and 1 other to deal with the random/cycling npc targeting nature of one of the 5 stages of the complex...
All in all I beleive our setup was the key for our sucess, and I hope we all could think of this setup as the "10/10 slayer"
Regards,
Ghenghiz
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2005.05.20 23:56:00 -
[81]
So I was absolutely and totally right :p. And the only thing more effective than what you mentioned would involve officer loot, so I suppose that's a good idea. I wonder if I could run that many on a Deimos with three Cap Recharger IIs.
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Ghenghiz
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Posted - 2005.05.21 00:17:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Ghenghiz on 21/05/2005 00:19:59
what you want really is a 2 apoc siamyse twin. 1 tanks and the other supports.
Both my characters that flew in this role has amarr bs lvl 5 and the cap power the apoc has is staggering.
enough cap to keep both the sb's and the support running at all times.
but i will say for the last time.. this is not the only thing that made us beat the 10/10.
We have been at it for a long time and we lost countless of ships. persistence / setup fine tuning / logisitcs / methods and alot of npc behavior studies are involved.
If you and your crew cant afford to try and fail for more then ALOT of times then consider not to try at all :-(
regards,
ghenghiz
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psygnosis
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Posted - 2005.05.21 02:17:00 -
[83]
Edited by: psygnosis on 21/05/2005 02:16:49
hehe sounds like fun.... anyway thanks for letting us know how...
and great work with taking the complex down in the first place... grats
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2005.05.21 11:12:00 -
[84]
I'll let you know how it goes when I attempt a 10/10. ;)
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dark1ing
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Posted - 2005.05.21 13:32:00 -
[85]
Awesome stuff guys, must have been crazy! like someone else remarked, my pc would never handle anything like that, was lag not a factor?
Congrats to those involved
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VortiK
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Posted - 2005.05.22 11:32:00 -
[86]
So getting ride of missiles by smartbombing, and tanking the rest with only 1 dedicated apoc. What was your resists on that armor tank ?
What is a life, devoid of strife ? 
Glorious Furture |
Ghenghiz
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Posted - 2005.05.22 11:54:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Ghenghiz on 22/05/2005 11:57:41
The lag is minimum in the complex ( lag is something network related ). However my videocard had huge problems with rendering the scenes so I had to zoom out to it's fullest to be able to keep playing.
Sometimes I would zoom in to be able to make something out only to zoom back out again.
As for one other remark made by vortik. You are not reading this thread very carfully. I was talking about the tanker having a siamise twin, but that does not mean that was the only support around.
Regards,
Ghenghiz
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VortiK
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Posted - 2005.05.22 20:06:00 -
[88]
I read it properly, however that don't answer my question about the resists =P
What is a life, devoid of strife ?
Glorious Furture |
Ghenghiz
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Posted - 2005.10.01 21:53:00 -
[89]
is the forum bugging? or does it look like many of the posts in this thread have been deleted? i remember at least more then 3 pages of posts, in fact i was looking for a particual post in here that i now no longer can find.
CCP would you care to explain to me whats going on?
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Sherkaner
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Posted - 2005.10.01 22:14:00 -
[90]
1. Bumping old threads is a violation of the forum rules.
2. Discussing moderation in the forum is a violation of the forum rules. If you have any questions, mail [email protected].
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