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Kaylyis
Line Ark Security Armaments LockJaw Inc.
39
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Posted - 2012.11.02 21:42:00 -
[151] - Quote
at least people aren't crying about killstealing. |

Shepard Wong Ogeko
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
138
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 21:49:00 -
[152] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Dar Manic wrote:Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:Dar Manic wrote: Please note: Anytime I use the phrase PvP in a post, I'm talking about shooting/combat/killing things/blowing things up. Thank you.
Quit trying to redefine things. PvP == Player verses Player This can be spaceship combat PvP, market PvP, diplomatic/political PvP. If you can't stand being pitted against other players, then don't play a massively multi-player game. So when a player posts they want to learn how to PvP, you are going to train them to buy, sell and make stuff? depends where they post, and the context of their post. obviously if they are asking for ship fittings they aren't interested in the market. conversely if they post in market discussion they clearly don't care how amazing your rifter fit is.
Exactly.
And Eve is one of the few games out there were this notion of PvP context is even a thing. Most other games only offer combat as content, so "PvP" is only really combat PvP. Some take a bit more organization, and that can open up opportunities for spies and sabotage. Eve has a very open market system, and that opens opportunities for market PvP, like speculation and manipulation. |

Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
489
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 21:50:00 -
[153] - Quote
Kaylyis wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote: I'd rather they just made it so that after a few months you are required to either join a player corp, or you have to pick a faction to play for.
+
Stuff
Nothing here that I disagree with. My idea you quoted was an example, not one I seriously believe to be a thing of brilliance. But if people really are as desperate as they say for real PvP, then let them get a month long flag that says "i'm a valid target" when they do a gank. I think that would show whether or not people really are interested in the gudfites, or whether or not they're suicide ganking because they can't be bothered to hit people who have the ability to meaningfully return fire. the claim (not from you) is that people are so risk averse that they won't fight, period. I'm curious what the gankers will do if suddenly they're the target of good fights, as opposed to bob the builder with 3-5 T1 drones for defense. I'm betting it'll involve a lot of ganker tears and cries of unfairness. and the people who form fleets to kill each other and engage Sov warfare will do what they always do. Roll their eyes and call primary. I kind of agree.
I think some of the gankers will quit when they end up with a FFA flag after ganking come Dec. 4th. I hope they won't, but I'm not naive enough to believe that no one ganks so that they can't be retaliated agains. Some have in fact already complained that they shouldn't be subject to FFA pvp because they ganked someone.
I don't think those people are wrong for ganking, I do think they should show some balls and if you're willing to suicide a ship that can't fight back you should be willing to accept any pvp that comes your way. It's only fair.
My problem is actually more along the lines of, that first kill to initiate more sweaping and inclusive pvp, is required to come with high cost.
Basically, CCP is like "hey guys, we want to give you more tools that allow you to take matters into your own hands and foster more pvp, but first you have to commit suicide."
Why give the players those tools and still require a manditory explosion of the bad guys ship in order to initiate those tools?
And the short term timer for can flipping, in my opinion, doesn't justify requiring one side or the other be forced to pay a fee in order to stimulate pvp.
It's just encouraging people to use throw away alts and find as many ways to manipulate the system as they can to greif others
In this player driven game, where they want to foster more conflict in high sec, and give players the tools to do so, they still enforce a manditory punishment on "the bad guy".
Edit: i should point out that I'm saying CONCORD shouldn't be a god force anymore with the coming changes. If someone ganks a ship CONCORD should spawn and prevent the ganker from warping away, and the ganker should be able to fight back against CONCORD. The victim can announce the ganker, set the kill rights to public, place a bounty, and then the players can come and kill them.
No reason for CONCORD to exact retribution on the player if you're giving the victims complete control over doing it themselves. |

Natasha Liao
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
14
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Posted - 2012.11.02 21:55:00 -
[154] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:I'd rather they just made it so that after a few months you are required to either join a player corp, or you have to pick a faction to play for. They stopped just a step from that when CCP jacked the Starter/NPC corp taxes through the roof a few years ago. All it accomplished was people spending a mil or so and a proliferation of 1 person corps IIRC.
Dave stark wrote:conversely if they post in market discussion they clearly don't care how amazing your rifter fit is. BLASPHEMY!! Amazing Rifter fits should be required reading for everyone... 
|

Khergit Deserters
Gallente Federation
167
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Posted - 2012.11.02 21:57:00 -
[155] - Quote
Well if what OP says is correct, we obviously have some very uninspired, uncreative, and generally feckless gameplay going on in null. Rhetorical questions: -Is a pet always a pet? Will they always be content being pets? If they blue all of null and run out of anything to shoot, could they possibly get ambitious and ::gasp:: start doing autonomous diplomacy/aggression of their own? Or is the Goon Empire/Pax Goonana set in cement, to last forever and ever? If so, then people forgot how to play in a PVP sandbox.
-Is the Goon machine so internally strong and healthy that it's self-sustaining, infinitely? Is it not possible that Goons could bore themselves into their own graves? Just from having a lack of meaningful challenges. Or does the machine have an infinite supply of leaders with the time, enthusiasm, and talent to motivate an organization that large? That hasn't been my experience with any group I've been, in EVE or otherwise. Talented people leave, less talented people take over, things decline. "All things pass gas." No, I mean, "All things must pass."
-If null has become a stagnant pool of entropic boredom, doesn't that create opportunities for opportunistic opportunists? It sounds as if null is doing repetitive things by rote. People are set in their ways. People aren't really thinking. There are lots of wealth and resources around. That sounds like an opportunity for some creative and eventually profitable mischief. |

Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
489
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 22:00:00 -
[156] - Quote
Natasha Liao wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:I'd rather they just made it so that after a few months you are required to either join a player corp, or you have to pick a faction to play for. They stopped just a step from that when CCP jacked the Starter/NPC corp taxes through the roof a few years ago. All it accomplished was people spending a mil or so and a proliferation of 1 person corps IIRC. I'm perfectly fine with that. You can dec a one man corp.
So it doesn't get missed, I should point out that I'm saying CONCORD shouldn't be a god force anymore with the coming changes. If someone ganks a ship CONCORD should spawn and prevent the ganker from warping away, and the ganker should be able to fight back against CONCORD. The victim can announce the ganker, set the kill rights to public, place a bounty, and then the players can come and kill them.
No reason for CONCORD to exact retribution on the player if you're giving the victims complete control over doing it themselves. |

Natasha Liao
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
14
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Posted - 2012.11.02 22:04:00 -
[157] - Quote
*chuckle* And James 315 has shown how 'effective' war decing a one man corp really is. :-) |

Kaylyis
Line Ark Security Armaments LockJaw Inc.
39
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Posted - 2012.11.02 22:05:00 -
[158] - Quote
Looking for epic Ritter fits.
Plus the people whining about being flagged for an asskicking when yanking prove themselves nothing more than cannibal carebears. The lite beer of carebear. Less calories, still tastes like **** |

Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
489
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Posted - 2012.11.02 22:07:00 -
[159] - Quote
Natasha Liao wrote:*chuckle* And James 315 has shown how 'effective' war decing a one man corp really is. :-) Yeah, I know.
It's not ideal, but at least it encourages more people to leave the NPC corp than it currently is.
PS: That is to say that it's better than people only making one man corps for the purpose of putting up PoS's in high sec. |

Shepard Wong Ogeko
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
138
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 22:21:00 -
[160] - Quote
Khergit Deserters wrote:Well if what OP says is correct, we obviously have some very uninspired, uncreative, and generally feckless gameplay going on in null. Rhetorical questions:
I know you said it was rhetorical, but a lot of people have absolutely no clue how nullsec really works, so...
Quote: -Is a pet always a pet? Will they always be content being pets? If they blue all of null and run out of anything to shoot, could they possibly get ambitious and ::gasp:: start doing autonomous diplomacy/aggression of their own? Or is the Goon Empire/Pax Goonana set in cement, to last forever and ever? If so, then people forgot how to play in a PVP sandbox.
"Pet" is a pejorative term, and the agreements between these corps and alliances vary a lot. And it is never set in stone. A very good and recent example is the split between Black Legion and NCdot. One week that are blue to each other and fighting side by side. The next, they are neutral, evacuating from the other's stations and looking for new allies.
Quote: -Is the Goon machine so internally strong and healthy that it's self-sustaining, infinitely? Is it not possible that Goons could bore themselves into their own graves? Just from having a lack of meaningful challenges. Or does the machine have an infinite supply of leaders with the time, enthusiasm, and talent to motivate an organization that large? That hasn't been my experience with any group I've been, in EVE or otherwise. Talented people leave, less talented people take over, things decline. "All things pass gas." No, I mean, "All things must pass."
Nothing lasts forever, and boredom is the greatest threat to large nullsec alliance.
Quote: -If null has become a stagnant pool of entropic boredom, doesn't that create opportunities for opportunistic opportunists? It sounds as if null is doing repetitive things by rote. People are set in their ways. People aren't really thinking. There are lots of wealth and resources around. That sounds like an opportunity for some creative and eventually profitable mischief.
There really are no opportunities in nullsec worth chasing for the vast majority of Eve players. The _only_ thing that can be done in sov nullsec that cannot be done anywhere else is building supercaps. And you only need 1 upgraded system to do that, and it is orders of magnitude easier to just rent such a system from an established power (and get access the supercap market that comes with it) than to fight for such a system. |
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Lolar55
Titan Core
4
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Posted - 2012.11.03 00:06:00 -
[161] - Quote
Doubt this will happen mainly because of the "Greed" factor.Sooner or later blues will want their allies moons because they don't have enough.It will then take just "few accidents" in blue space to destroy their blue status. |

Kaylyis
Line Ark Security Armaments LockJaw Inc.
39
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Posted - 2012.11.03 00:58:00 -
[162] - Quote
This is not a bad thing |

Mr Pragmatic
0
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Posted - 2012.11.03 14:44:00 -
[163] - Quote
k Maybe this world is another planet's hell. -Aldous Huxley
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Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din Dark Therapy
1073
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Posted - 2012.11.03 14:47:00 -
[164] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:I think you forgot to factor server population into your calculations.
I think he actually forgot to know anything at all about Eve Online or its politics. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |

March rabbit
Aliastra
258
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Posted - 2012.11.03 15:19:00 -
[165] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Lets be honest, if the Goons stopped spamming the forums, they would effectively disappear for most players. 100%
I spent 1 year in Eve without even knowing about goonswarm. I have heard once about corp "goons" who flies in big groups and very danger. However i have never seen them.
And only after i joined 0.0 alliance and started to visit Eve Online forums goons appeared. Should i say in high-sec maybe they will be only forum warriors for me still.
I guess this is about many high-seccers
|

Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
883
|
Posted - 2012.11.03 19:42:00 -
[166] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:you think goons and friends won't reset each other just for ***** and giggles.
i'll wager they will.
Happened before and will happen again. brb |

EvEa Deva
State War Academy Caldari State
121
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Posted - 2012.11.03 21:34:00 -
[167] - Quote
Have fun bashing stuff |

Doc Severide
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
199
|
Posted - 2012.11.04 01:08:00 -
[168] - Quote
What utter tripe... Just plain old crap... |

Bandlean
I has a Stik
0
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Posted - 2012.11.04 03:42:00 -
[169] - Quote
If this isn't stopped then BOB will take over the Eve Universe!!!!!
Oh wait... that didn't happen did it....
My bad, please carry on ! |

Galaxy Pig
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
53
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Posted - 2012.11.04 06:45:00 -
[170] - Quote
Like a forest, highsec would benefit from a cleansing fire, and return rejuvenated and stronger than before. |
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Mr Pragmatic
1
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Posted - 2012.11.04 11:45:00 -
[171] - Quote
Oh look one of these threads again. Maybe this world is another planet's hell. -Aldous Huxley
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Taraxon Taranogas
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
14
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Posted - 2012.11.04 18:57:00 -
[172] - Quote
Blah, blah blah......are we talking about "buring" his-sec again?
The Goons are so dumb. Think of all the ISK they wasted in the "burn" Jita adventure. I dare them to come to hi-sec and do it again. It's made mining and production awesome.
Bring it on! |

Shepard Wong Ogeko
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
142
|
Posted - 2012.11.04 19:15:00 -
[173] - Quote
Taraxon Taranogas wrote:Blah, blah blah......are we talking about "buring" his-sec again?
The Goons are so dumb. Think of all the ISK they wasted in the "burn" Jita adventure. I dare them to come to hi-sec and do it again. It's made mining and production awesome.
Bring it on!
I'm glad some are willing to admit that with the game being so centered around highsec that the economy would stagnate if not for nullsec powers stirring the pot.
|

Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
496
|
Posted - 2012.11.04 19:33:00 -
[174] - Quote
Taraxon Taranogas wrote:Blah, blah blah......are we talking about "buring" his-sec again?
The Goons are so dumb. Think of all the ISK they wasted in the "burn" Jita adventure. I dare them to come to hi-sec and do it again. It's made mining and production awesome.
Bring it on! Goons are dumb cause they make the game awesome?
|

HVAC Repairman
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
248
|
Posted - 2012.11.04 19:40:00 -
[175] - Quote
cfc and hbc are doing the race to berlin, because eve is like world war 2 and world war 2 metaphors are definitely not overused in eve online: an okay game
however once we take berlin (ww2 metaphor) we will reunite as the super cala fragilistic expialidocious republic of bad posting and take over highsec through ganking, bumping, and market manipulation. once all is said and done we will come to one universal truth:
clone costs are too damn high Follow me on twitter |

General Nusense
Republic University Minmatar Republic
28
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 01:31:00 -
[176] - Quote
i havent read any posts from the time i made OP. personally i am suprised with the amount of responses to it. please keep up the good and bad posting. really i just posted to bump it up again.
holla.
sometime, like as in never, i will give each of you one like.
o7m8 |

Gangname Style
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2012.11.07 01:33:00 -
[177] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:I think you forgot to factor server population into your calculations.
get some botox already, jesus christ. |

Shederov Blood
Wrecketeers
203
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Posted - 2012.11.07 02:33:00 -
[178] - Quote
Gangname Style wrote:Riot Girl wrote:I think you forgot to factor server population into your calculations. get some botox already, jesus christ. She's fine. You mistook shadows for wrinkles. Botox is bad and you should feel bad.
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Capt Starfox
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.11.07 09:02:00 -
[179] - Quote
Lol, I hope Goons and friends get bored in null and advance moreso into highsec; here's a secret, they actually make this game interesting and more fun. Shh.. don't tell anybody. |

March rabbit
Aliastra
262
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Posted - 2012.11.07 09:22:00 -
[180] - Quote
Capt Starfox wrote:Lol, I hope Goons and friends get bored in null and advance moreso into highsec; here's a secret, they actually make this game interesting and more fun. Shh.. don't tell anybody. at the minimum they make forums lot more interesting. not sure about game itself. Recall Delve 2012 - they completely outblobbed SC and killed all the fun which could be got by all sides in that war. instead they just cleaned territory and left to high-sec to whine about boring 0.0. Don't know what do they now, i have heard they kill fun in some other war in 0.0 again :D |
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