Will the new bounty system save EvE?

At least we will have something to do with the endless Tech ISK faucet the bears keep screaming about.

or that the new bounty system isn't an ISK sink

What needs saving is these froums from people like the OP. I swear Riot Girl cries more then any 1000 high sec players.

I Will Save you all.

Too bad that tech isn't an ISK faucet (or that the new bounty system isn't an ISK sink).

It is when people quit the game and take your ISK with them.

No. Partly because the ISK isn't gone, and partly because it has nothing to do with bounties.

Either way, it's not a sink.

[...] Alternatively, it could also lead to the fiery death of EvE.

Sometimes you don't need to read the first sentence, but the last sentence to identify the quality of a post.

No. Partly because the ISK isn't gone, and partly because it has nothing to do with bounties.

Either way, it's not a sink.

Actually!

I think it was stated in the dev blog that if an account goes inactive, the ISK placed in the bounty dissapears. So it will be an ISK sink, of a sort.

No. Partly because the ISK isn't gone, and partly because it has nothing to do with bounties.

Either way, it's not a sink.

Actually!

I think it was stated in the dev blog that if an account goes inactive, the ISK placed in the bounty dissapears. So it will be an ISK sink, of a sort.

Thanks, I take pride in my work.

I heard that you can place a bounty and only allow a certain person/corp/alliance to be able to collect it?

So unsub for a day and no more bounty?

Actually you should feel bad

But that goes for the isk in an account itself too. Of course that would be an isk sink, but it hasnt got anything to do with bounties primarily

You heard wrong.

I heard that you can place a bounty and only allow a certain person/corp/alliance to be able to collect it? Will be really interesting for merc groups to be able to get contracts using game mechanics. I think I read that in the dev blog, but not sure if it will be realsed quiet yet.

Iterative Work

There are a few additional things weGÇÖre looking into as a possible post-Retribution iteration work. Some of that stuff is too early to discuss right now, but here are a few tidbits of what could happen:

GÇóStructure bounties GÇô this is the ability to put a bounty directly on a structure like POS or POCO. While this is indirectly achieved by the ability to place a bounty on the owning corporation, being able to place it on a structure instead allows for a more directed strategic incentive.
GÇóPrivate/public bounties GÇô the ability to narrow the selection of who can claim your bounty. This would allow people to have more control over who can reap the benefits of the bounty and gives the receiver confidence that he will be rewarded for his efforts.
GÇóMore selective kill right selling GÇô this is similar to the one above, only for kill rights instead of bounties. This basically allows the owner of the kill right to select more carefully who can purchase the kill right.

Unless the bounties become a large cause of people quitting.

I
Every time a carebear quits EvE, they are removing ISK from the economy, thus creating the ISK sink the game needs.

We can force people to participate in PvP even if they pretend they don't want to.

CONCORD is corrupt and takes 1% of bounties for looking the other way, boom isk sink.

I think it was stated in the dev blog that if an account goes inactive, the ISK placed in the bounty dissapears. So it will be an ISK sink, of a sort.

Let's say ALOT of miners quit cause of this, then CCP has a meeting and says, hey guys, I think that whole bounty thing, well, you know, we're losing money. Retribution 1.1 release notes: Mining barges no longer reward bounties.

Then miners resub, they stlil have the isk, since it was never removed.

I'm not trying to insinuate that miners will unsub en masse due to bounties, I only used this as an example since it was the first thing that came to mind.

Actually, carebears make a lot of the items that the EVE economy is based on. Get rid of the carebears, and the game goes down the tubes. Someone has to make the cheaper ships, you can't always depend on the nullsec alliances to supply stuff.

I just want to point out that you are still not going to be able to place bonties on people with a high sec rating.

No it's not mentioned.

The evidence of absence is not the absence of evidence.

Well I can't predict the future, I can only speculate with the information we currently have.

Unless the bounties become a large cause of people quitting.

I just want to point out that you are still not going to be able to place bonties on people with a high sec rating

That's like saying, I have 100 million in my wallet, I dont' plan to spend this because I want to help the eve economy, but I"m not sure if I can manage to keep this isk in my wallet. I dont think we would call this an isk sink, because you can't predict the future.

I've added bounty on pilots with 5.0 sec standing on Duality few minutes ago. Also on their corps.

GÇóBounties can now be placed from anywhere in the game, not just the Bounty Office in stations. Bounties on the same character go into a joint pool, same as now. The minimum ISK amount for placing a bounty is increased from 5k to 100k. Also, bounties can now be placed on anyone, weGÇÖre removing the -1 security standing requirement currently in the bounty system.

But why do you want people quitting? CCP doesn't need the revenue? What real life corporation would be happy with loosing customers/subscribers?

The two main complaints about high-sec right now are;
1. Suicide ganking isn't profitable enough for the effort.
2. High-sec players get too much isk for too little reward.

No, it's like saying, "I have 100 million in my wallet, I'm going to place a bounty on another player, hopefully encouraging them to quit the game and remove my isk from the economy".

I've added bounty on pilots with 5.0 sec standing on Duality few minutes ago. Also on their corps.

Still not a sink.

Can you do it on on anything above that?

Can you do it on on anything above that?

If you can place them on any corps or alliance regardless of the sec status of the members what does that tell you?

....do you know how few people are above 5.0?

That you can place it on the corps and alliances. Not on the players.



Actually quite a few but I am not at liberty to release their information.

GÇóBounties can now be placed from anywhere in the game, not just the Bounty Office in stations. Bounties on the same character go into a joint pool, same as now. The minimum ISK amount for placing a bounty is increased from 5k to 100k. Also, bounties can now be placed on anyone, weGÇÖre removing the -1 security standing requirement currently in the bounty system.

Eve doesn't need saving, but if it did, the bounty system would save it.



On a theoretical basis, it is. PvPers need to PvE to get ISK to PvP at the moment, therefore they are generating ISK into the economy. With the bounty system these people will be able to get some of their ISK from PvP (something that is currently very very difficult), which means they will be PvEing less. Taking away people's need to bring ISK into the game is as good (if not better) than taking it out.

Also, although technically not a sink, it will remove ISK from being "fluid assets" by having it stored on someone's bounty. In tern making less ISK in circulation, which will work very similarly to an ISK sink.

If you can place them on any corps or alliance regardless of the sec status of the members what does that tell you?

But why would I pay money to put a bounty on someone.


I understand why suicide gankers may want more ISK for killing carebears. But, why would I pay them to shoot a carebear?

More likely, the bounties are going to be put on the suicide gankers, by the carebears, to make it MORE expensive to suicide gank... when someone suicide ganks you to get the bounty.


Then, there is the issue that if a bounty is put on me, i can just have a friend gank me to collect the bounty and make it safer for me to undock again.

It is when people quit the game and take your ISK with them.

Then, there is the issue that if a bounty is put on me, i can just have a friend gank me to collect the bounty and make it safer for me to undock again.

But why would I pay money to put a bounty on someone.


I understand why suicide gankers may want more ISK for killing carebears. But, why would I pay them to shoot a carebear?

More likely, the bounties are going to be put on the suicide gankers, by the carebears, to make it MORE expensive to suicide gank... when someone suicide ganks you to get the bounty.


Then, there is the issue that if a bounty is put on me, i can just have a friend gank me to collect the bounty and make it safer for me to undock again.

This will be the end of specialized (hi sec) mining corps probably.

How can so many people be posting in a thread about the new bounty system without anyone in here understanding how the new system works? Go read the damn Devblog people.

"Bounties have no effect on who can be attacked legally where."

Concord is still effect then??? :)

"Bounties have no effect on who can be attacked legally where."

Concord is still effect then??? :)

You can have kill rights purchased on an individual that lasts for about 15 minutes and cost...either 1mil or 10mil..i don't remember.

[quote=NARDAC]
You've misunderstood how the new system will work. Read the devblog on how it will work. You wont be able to have a friend just collect the bounty, not without you loosing large amounts of ISK and valuable spaceships.

I am not certain what CCP counts as an inactive account or not.

No, you heard wrong.

a) Its not an isk sink. It comes back
b) Anyone can clear any bounty on themselves by suspending their account for 6 months. If you choose to do this, be sure to enter "To clear an undesired bounty" on the form CCP gives you when you suspend your account.

"Bounties have no effect on who can be attacked legally where."

It appears you don't put bounties on someone you want to grief and then your friends can kill them in hi-sec. This indicates you don't gain the right to legally attack in hi-sec just because of the bounty. :)

But, if I figure that the bounty is large enough to make it worth people killing me, and I assume the loss will happen eventually, I may as well get it out of the way.

You put a 100 million ISK bounty on me (and why would you?). Okay, I figure people will be looking for me to kill me. So, I go ahead and lose the 500 million ISK worth of ships to a friend, so at least he gets the 100 million... and the loot and salvage.

Heck, do it in a T2 ship, and there is a chance the T2 salvage pays for the loss anyway.

Fewer exploits, maybe, but exploits none the less.

But, if I figure that the bounty is large enough to make it worth people killing me, and I assume the loss will happen eventually, I may as well get it out of the way.

You put a 100 million ISK bounty on me (and why would you?). Okay, I figure people will be looking for me to kill me. So, I go ahead and lose the 500 million ISK worth of ships to a friend, so at least he gets the 100 million... and the loot and salvage.

Heck, do it in a T2 ship, and there is a chance the T2 salvage pays for the loss anyway.

Fewer exploits, maybe, but exploits none the less.

I will put 100 mil bounty on you just to see you take the cowards way out and let your friend blow up 500 mil worth of your ships. Still win for me.

Perhaps the bounty system will have the complete opposite affect?

Seems to me that miners would love to have those bumping stabbers blown to bits.

If griefing miners starts to become something that can earn you a bounty, perhaps it will thin the miner hater herd?

I think it's possible that the new bounty system could be the saviour of EvE.

The two main complaints about high-sec right now are;
1. Suicide ganking isn't profitable enough for the effort.
2. High-sec players get too much isk for too little reward.

A further complaint is that the game has too few ISK sinks.

With the new bounty system, we will be able to place bounties of any amount on anyone, for any reason. We can force people to participate in PvP even if they pretend they don't want to. We can make ganking profitable. Even if the profits will be small (20m bounty from a Mackinaw according to Petrus Blackshell in this thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2067812#post2067812 ), it might be worth it just for the tears, plus loot and salvage.

Essentially, for every 20m ISK bounty you place on a miner, that miner will lose 200m isk when he is ganked. This makes it seem like high-sec mining is going to become quite a risky business and result in a lot of carebears losing a lot of ISK to gankers who just want to see them QQ.

So where does the ISK sink part come in? Well, the bounty system itself is an ISK sink. As people keep piling bounties on the miners, the bounties get higher and higher. A miner with a 200m bounty is good for 10 ganks, and what happens when a carebear miner is ganked too many times? He quits EvE, taking his bounty with him.

Every time a carebear quits EvE, they are removing ISK from the economy, thus creating the ISK sink the game needs.

It seems to me that with the new bounty system, we can save EvE by forcing players to quit with relentless ganking. The higher the bounties, the more likely they are to quit and remove those high bounties from the economy when they do.

This is why I think the new bounty system, with the proper player initiative, could save EvE. Alternatively, it could also lead to the fiery death of EvE.

That's not an exploit. That's one fool deciding to loose 400m for no good reason.

How do you figure?

You lose the 100 million. I lose some subset of the 500 million that is not recouped by the 100M payout, drops and salvage.

How is that a win for you?

How exactly is griefing players until they unsub going to "save" EVE?

"Herpdy doo, hmm 100m ISK laying around. Should I buy a ship for PVP? No, I think I'll indirectly grief this industrialist."

Because you are still losing isk...

And I am disrupting your safety net so much that you would blow up 500 mil worth of ships to feel "safe". All I lose is 100 mil. I'm gonna get so many people to put bounties on your head now it is going to be hilarious as you blow up a few bil worth of ships to feel "safe" again.

blah, blah get everyone to put a bounty on you blah

How exactly is griefing players until they unsub going to "save" EVE?

I just want to point out that you are still not going to be able to place bonties on people with a high sec rating.

No it's not mentioned.

The evidence of absence is not the absence of evidence.

Also, bounties can now be placed on anyone, weGÇÖre removing the -1 security standing requirement currently in the bounty system.

I'm not going to answer this question. Instead I'm going to ask you if you think people will really unsub if they are ganked for their bounties? If you feel they will, what kind of player do you think they would be?

I'm not going to answer this question. Instead I'm going to ask you if you think people will really unsub if they are ganked for their bounties? If you feel they will, what kind of player do you think they would be?

I hope those bumpers do put the bounties they claim they will on me, make it little more exciting while mining and traveling. I do hope it will add more fun, at the end of the day that is why we play.

Yes.

One that pays CCP for their subscription (or someone else is paying for their sub via PLEX).

As are you. How is that a win?




I don't lose the 500 million. It is some subset of that after the bounty, the drops and the salvage are recovered.




Well, then it is a good thing I have like 50 alts that I can just log in on instead.

How do you figure?

You lose the 100 million. I lose some subset of the 500 million that is not recouped by the 100M payout, drops and salvage.

How is that a win for you?

Suicide ganking will be unaffected.

Surely suicide ganking will be affected: suicide ganker in Tornado w/o any tank with 100m bounty is an easy / desired target for a suicide ganker in Catalyst or Vexor.

I'm wondering if maybe there should be a small delay to curb people flying around with alts or a group of friends, placing a bounty on a miner, and then blowing them up with the alt or have their friends do it.

I know people are going to rage over the bounty system, hell that's exactly what the OP is already doing,

they'll just rush to the forums and cry that they're going to quit if CCP doesn't make it so that bounties can't be placed on them. I expect the OP to be one of those people.

If you are in a fleet of suicide gankers, and one of your fleet mates has a bounty, its worth your while to aim one gun at him so you get the killmail and the bounty.

If you are in a fleet of suicide gankers, and one of your fleet mates has a bounty, its worth your while to aim one gun at him so you get the killmail and the bounty.

"Bounties have no effect on who can be attacked legally where."

It appears you don't put bounties on someone you want to grief and then your friends can kill them in hi-sec. This indicates you don't gain the right to legally attack in hi-sec just because of the bounty. :)

Pretty tough to time the final blow.

Who says EVE needs saving?

Mr Epeen

CONCORD's blows do not count in figuring who gets the final blow (if I remember correctly...), just the last player to shoot before the explosion.

What would be the point? A bounty does not grant kill rights. And, you will get back something like 20% of what you pay to place the bounty. Put a 100 million ISK bounty on someone, it costs you 100 million iSK. Blow up his 100 million ISK ship, you still get CONCOIRDed, you get a 20 million ISK payout on the bounty, and 80 million iSK bounty remains on teh player to be collected on future kills.

There is no GAIN to it.

If you say so.

Pretty tough to time the final blow.

Have to re-post since the arguments being made are oblivious to it:



Bounty hunting is not changing that much peeps. :)

It grants a kill right to anyone that accepts the bounty, it doesn't grant a kill right to the person that places the bounty. Where are some of you getting the "it doesn't grant kill rights" line from? How the hell do you collect a bounty without a kill right?

I'm wonder, sinse you only quoted that one line, did you actually read the other part.

I go into a belt, see a miner, place a bounty, immediately accept that bounty with my alt and blow up the miner. Gankers don't care that they lose money and you only need to place an extremely small amount of isk on someone to create a bounty, you don't need millions, you only need thousands. A ganker loses a crapton of isk ganking barges at the moment, if he can put a bunty on you for 25k so that he can gank you with his alt, he's losing less with the bounty system than he's losing suicide ganking.

If there's no delay, or even a warning that a bunty is placed on you, than I can indeed use it to allow myself to blow up barges without getting concorded by using my alt, on another account, to blow up the barge.

Pretty sure that's exactly what I did, and what you're doing.

In the devblog, "Bounties have no effect on who can be attacked legally where."

It grants a kill right to anyone that accepts the bounty, it doesn't grant a kill right to the person that places the bounty. Where are some of you getting the "it doesn't grant kill rights" line from? How the hell do you collect a bounty without a kill right?

I go into a belt, see a miner, place a bounty, immediately accept that bounty with my alt and blow up the miner.

In the devblog, "Bounties have no effect on who can be attacked legally where." It's a bullet point so there's no 'context' left out. :)

A bounty doesn't generate a free for all flag, it generates a contract that someone has to accept in order to shoot that person. It means that if I'm flying around with a bounty you don't have the right to shoot me until you accpt the bounty contract.

It should only mean that someone has to ACCEPT THE BOUNTY.

A bounty doesn't generate a free for all flag, it generates a contract that someone has to accept in order to shoot that person. It means that if I'm flying around with a bounty you don't have the right to shoot me until you accpt the bounty contract.

I don't think crimewatch or bounties are going to make any difference to the game.

Basically CCP has a choice, accept High Sec culture (as in living there for the whole time you play the game is completely legitimate) and let that suck the rest of the game dry.

Or balance risk and reward and make a gradient where people are keen to leave to seek greater riches.

Everything else is just window dressing.

From the dev blog. It talks about kill rights, but only the ability of someone that already has kill rights being able to transfer those kill rights to someone else.

How do you collect without kill rights? Suicide gank.




And CONCORD comes and kills your alt, just as if you had killed them without accepting the bounty.

At least we will have something to do with the endless Tech ISK faucet the bears keep screaming about.

It means exactly what it says. Having a bounty on me does not alter your ability to attack me without CONCORD intervention. You would still need kill rights.


The change is that IF someone has kill rights on me, they could make those kill right public so others that want to kill me could buy those kill rights and use them. If no one has kill rights on me, because I've not attacked them, then there is no one to buy the kill rights from.

Are you trying to say that you can't shoot people in high sec with a bounty on them? Because I'm pretty sure that's not right, seeing as they removed the need to pod; seeing as you can't pod anyone in high sec.

Too bad that tech isn't an ISK faucet

Basically CCP has a choice, accept High Sec culture (as in living there for the whole time you play the game is completely legitimate) and let that suck the rest of the game dry.

@Natsett Amuinn

That's what the bullet point says. You can't shoot people with a bounty just because they have the bounty.. accept the bounty or not, doesn't change anything. If that is not the intent, they need to change the wording quickly.

Is that stupid? Not going to argue that point. I'm merely trying to point out what it says and what it means to an english speaking person (no offense intended to anyone who is not native english speaker!!).

Are you sure?

We are talking about 1 trillion isk / month / moon.

I'm going to start a thread and see if we can get some clarification on that line.

I'm pretty sure it's only there to indicate that it doesn't generate a FFA flag that would allow everyone to just shoot someone with a bounty legally.

Are you sure?

We are talking about 1 trillion isk / month / moon.

I'm going to start a thread and see if we can get some clarification on that line.

I'm pretty sure it's only there to indicate that it doesn't generate a FFA flag that would allow everyone to just shoot someone with a bounty legally.

None needed, you are wrong and you should take your advice and go read the dev blog.

There's no need to be an Ahole, I'm not being a **** to you; no need to be a **** to me.

I've read the blog, several times, and I do not think that line means what some pople think it means.

Right, you think that you can pay 100,000 ISK to legally kill whoever you want in highsec.

That's perfectly sane and rationalal and demonstrates solid reading comprehension.

>not an 'ahole'
>goon with a hardon over ganking miners

Pick one.

goon with a hardon over ganking miners

I'm going to have to agree with the persons that said the bounty sytem will have no impact on anything, now.

It'll be used the same way the current one is used, for bragging rights. People will just put bounties on their high sec alts who will never get the bounty collected.

I'm going to have to agree with the persons that said the bounty sytem will have no impact on anything, now.

It'll be used the same way the current one is used, for bragging rights. People will just put bounties on their high sec alts who will never get the bounty collected.

I'm going to have to agree with the persons that said the bounty sytem will have no impact on anything, now.

It'll be used the same way the current one is used, for bragging rights. People will just put bounties on their high sec alts who will never get the bounty collected.

It'll have an impact. People with sufficiently high bounties flying sufficiently expensive ships will be shot. They will either have to take the losses or adjust their flying habits to fly something that doesn't pay for itself if you attack it.

It looks like you're reading far too much into what's been said. The difference with the new bounty system is simple: it adjust when and how much bounties pay out. That is all. The GÇ£whenGÇ¥ part means that they will have a bigger effect since it's easier to actually trigger to pay-out. The GÇ£how muchGÇ¥ part means that they will have a bigger effect since you can't make money by shedding your own bounty yourself.

None of it has anything to do with CrimeWatch or flagging. It has nothing to do with contracts. It's just something you get if you break stuff.

I'm seeing it as something that's designed to primarilly effect gankers in high sec.

Do people care in low and nulla bout bounties, I haven't come across anyone that cares .

I don't know, we'll see. I was just hoping this would be a way for people to actually impact high sec industry which is impacting markets all over EVE, to the point of stifling them.

I guess one can hope that corps will put out trililions of isk in bounties to effect enough miners. Meh, now I'm feeling more pessimistic than I like.

I'm seeing it as something that's designed to primarilly effect gankers in high sec.

Do people care in low and nulla bout bounties, I haven't come across anyone that cares .

I was just hoping this would be a way for people to actually impact high sec industry which is impacting markets all over EVE, to the point of stifling them.

HGH SEC PLAYERS DO NOT MAKE BILLIONS OF ISK FOR LITTLE RISK U STUPID IGNORANT FOOL

High-sec players get too much isk for too little reward.

HGH SEC PLAYERS DO NOT MAKE BILLIONS OF ISK FOR LITTLE RISK U STUPID IGNORANT FOOL

If you can't make billions of isk in high sec with little risk, you're doing something wrong.

Little risk already exists, as does the ability to make billions. You can even make billions of isk really fast in high sec, without ever leaving a station.

Not everyone is flying around shooting red crosses in high sec to make isk guys.

I'm going to have to agree with the persons that said the bounty sytem will have no impact on anything, now.

It'll be used the same way the current one is used, for bragging rights. People will just put bounties on their high sec alts who will never get the bounty collected.

If you can't make billions of isk in high sec with little risk, you're doing something wrong.

Little risk already exists, as does the ability to make billions. You can even make billions of isk really fast in high sec, without ever leaving a station.

Not everyone is flying around shooting red crosses in high sec to make isk guys.

Those that do so can do it in a way that makes the security status of a system irrelevant so long a trade volume and variety are high enough. They never need to undock and as such it's irrelevant what the system security is assuming we ever get conditions that allow non-higsec trade hubs to rival the current hubs.

OK, I'll bite. How many are doing this? I need stats from CCP.

I think it's possible that the new bounty system could be the saviour of EvE.

The two main complaints about high-sec right now are;
1. Suicide ganking isn't profitable enough for the effort.
2. High-sec players get too much isk for too little reward.

A further complaint is that the game has too few ISK sinks.

With the new bounty system, we will be able to place bounties of any amount on anyone, for any reason. We can force people to participate in PvP even if they pretend they don't want to. We can make ganking profitable. Even if the profits will be small (20m bounty from a Mackinaw according to Petrus Blackshell in this thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2067812#post2067812 ), it might be worth it just for the tears, plus loot and salvage.

Essentially, for every 20m ISK bounty you place on a miner, that miner will lose 200m isk when he is ganked. This makes it seem like high-sec mining is going to become quite a risky business and result in a lot of carebears losing a lot of ISK to gankers who just want to see them QQ.

So where does the ISK sink part come in? Well, the bounty system itself is an ISK sink. As people keep piling bounties on the miners, the bounties get higher and higher. A miner with a 200m bounty is good for 10 ganks, and what happens when a carebear miner is ganked too many times? He quits EvE, taking his bounty with him.

Every time a carebear quits EvE, they are removing ISK from the economy, thus creating the ISK sink the game needs.

It seems to me that with the new bounty system, we can save EvE by forcing players to quit with relentless ganking. The higher the bounties, the more likely they are to quit and remove those high bounties from the economy when they do.

This is why I think the new bounty system, with the proper player initiative, could save EvE. Alternatively, it could also lead to the fiery death of EvE.

I love these people who keep trying to fit their square peg in CCP's circle hole.

OK, I'll bite. How many are doing this? I need stats from CCP.

"After the break; Eve needs saving?

More compelling news, at 11."

I love these people who keep trying to fit their square peg in CCP's circle hole.

There are a lot of ways to make hundreds of billions in highsec. The first rule of making ISK is you go where the money is. Virtually all of the money is in empire. I don't think anyone would dispute that. Once you establish that fact, it's just a matter of finding your angle. I know of many, I'm good at few. Really, you only need one.

1) They are not pretending.

2) Since you can't force them to play the game, you can't force them to PVP. Attempt to force them to PVP, and they quit playing. How does that "save" EVE to have fewer players?

They consent to PVP every time they sell their minerals, or the goods it produces at a station to a playing character.

Don't understand why anyone who dislikes pvp, and doesn't want to ever get involved in pvp, would start playing EVE in the first place. No one starts playing EVE under the impression that they never have to experience pvp.

Actually, I personally started playing at the insistence of a personal friend who told me little more than that it was a space game. I literally managed to be generally unaware of and unaffected by ship to ship PvP for most of the first year of play.

Actually, I personally started playing at the insistence of a personal friend who told me little more than that it was a space game. I literally managed to be generally unaware of and unaffected by ship to ship PvP for most of the first year of play.

The beariest carebeariest care bear of all bears is at best, a shady, selfish, dirty arms dealer.

No one that plays this game is innocent. People that profit off of things that in turn get used to blow up others cannot claim ignorance as a defense for their playstyle.

Everything in eve is Verse. Other. Players on some level.

To be technical I said I was "unaware of and unaffected by ship to ship PvP," which is true in a direct fashion. I may have facilitated it for others in some way but i neither engaged nor was engaged by another player ship.