I applied to a well known Corp/Alliance on my main, and sent their recruiter my API key. I unchecked everything that gave info on how much isk I have and my transactions. They turned down my app because of it.

Yes I understand this is just a game, but my irritation due to this level of invasiveness comes from RL; my Employer didn't even ask me how much money I have and request an account of every transaction I've had that year. I don't like people knowing that sort of info about me. It's none of your business what I buy and how much money I have.

They claimed it was to ensure I wasn't being funded by a main for "Awoxing" or w/e....w/e that means.

WTF dude??? W/e happened to just sending an app to a guild/alliance/whatever, maybe doing a short interview then joining up with some cool folks and shooting stuff???

What the hell with this invasiveness/red tape; join such and such forum and wait 3 months, sit around for hours waiting for an interview, etc??

I understand there's a need to prevent spying but really? I mean if I were a spy, I would be MORE than willing to give you whatever you ask for; whatever it takes to get in. Especially since I'm probably an exp player so I already pretty much know what you'll consider a red flag.

Damn man, it just seems like EVERYTHING in this game is so friggin complicated...I just want to have some fun man, s**t....

Because of the omnipresence of spies and sabotage.

Cuz bad players still think the API will do something to prevent spys.

Really the only thing API is usefull for is to actually spy on the people giving you their API. Kind of sad that there's an abundance of corps that wont recruit unless you give them that info.

Ok....I'll be clearer about my confusion:

If I'm a spy, I'm after something, right?

I'm probably an experienced player, right?

Me being a spy AND experienced, I already know what API keys show, and what you would consider a red flag, right?

So then wouldn't you expect me to apply with a pristine toon?

How does my transaction history help you determine whether or not I'm a spy? Is this foolproof?

Ok....I'll be clearer about my confusion:

If I'm a spy, I'm after something, right?

I'm probably an experienced player, right?

Me being a spy AND experienced, I already know what API keys show, and what you would consider a red flag, right?

So then wouldn't you expect me to apply with a pristine toon?

How does my transaction history help you determine whether or not I'm a spy? Is this foolproof?

Right, I mean what's keeping them from, say, targeting me for ransoms now that they know how much money I have? That's one of the reasons I didn't show it.

When I first got here, everyone told me to be slow to trust folks, so that's what I'm doing. For all I know their recruitment officer has a pirate alt just collecting APIs from applicant to see who to gank....

Ok....I'll be clearer about my confusion:

If I'm a spy, I'm after something, right?

I'm probably an experienced player, right?

Me being a spy AND experienced, I already know what API keys show, and what you would consider a red flag, right?

So then wouldn't you expect me to apply with a pristine toon?

How does my transaction history help you determine whether or not I'm a spy? Is this foolproof?

See above, regarding bad players thinking API can identify spies.

You can easily hide financial data in different ways that won't show on the API where the money is coming from.

Right, I mean what's keeping them from, say, targeting me for ransoms now that they know how much money I have? That's one of the reasons I didn't show it.

When I first got here, everyone told me to be slow to trust folks, so that's what I'm doing. For all I know their recruitment officer has a pirate alt just collecting APIs from applicant to see who to gank....

No. It's not a matter of stupidity on the part of the spy. A pristine toon is just as suspicious, (perhaps more so to some), as any other. It does help to see what kind of transactions a person makes, but ultimately, unless they are doing something extravagant or weird, it is relatively pointless.

What situation do you think will result in more spies in your corp:

Any and all can apply with 1 minutes effort, or every spy has to go through the trouble of buying a second account and furnishing it with a believable history?

What situation do you think will result in more spies in your corp:

Any and all can apply with 1 minutes effort, or every spy has to go through the trouble of buying a second account and furnishing it with a believable history?

Damn man, it just seems like EVERYTHING in this game is so friggin complicated...

Maybe if we knew who you were we could comment objectively. As it is I am just responding to yet another alt poster with too many whine threads.

Maybe if we knew who you were we could comment objectively. As it is I am just responding to yet another alt poster with too many whine threads.

Come on man, you know spies play to WIN dude.

You really think paying 30 bucks for a 90-day toon just to build up a credible history ISN'T worth billions of isk or info that will win a huge war???

Even IF the spy has to pay it (which we both know he probably wont;, the Alliance will probably pony that up,it's 30 bucks) it's still worth it. 20 bucks for plex, or 30 bucks for a toon that could net you billions???

Depends on the corp, but for the corps running a tight ship it's actually a big deal. Spies and thieves can wreak havoc. Why take the chance? I get where they are coming from. If you have a seedy past the options do get a bit limited (I'm in the same boat). You can join a big corp or a "training/probation" corp and prove yourself, you can join a smaller up-and-coming corp and prove yourself there, then make a lat move into another corp when you are in an alliance you like, or you can touch base w/ a buddy you've flown with in the past, work for his corp until you earn a referral, and reapply. That would be how I would do it anyway... just my 2 isk.

Edit: try to put yourself into a CEO's shoes. They definitely want good new players to join. However, there are players out there that make a living stealing and spying. They play a dedicated game of trying to earn trust just to screw corps over... if you look like they do on paper, what would you expect a CEO to do? I'll tell you one almost sure-fire way to join a decent PvP corp. Fly out to their space, and just start killing them. if you kill enough of them, I'd bet they'll take you. If you just keep loosing ships, maybe that's not the corp for you anyway. Again, just my 2 isk

I don't like people knowing that sort of info about me. It's none of your business what I buy and how much money I have.

They claimed it was to ensure I wasn't being funded by a main for "Awoxing" or w/e....w/e that means.

The kinds of spies who win wars are director-level spies.

That's gonna involve a new account, several months building a believable history, and then several years getting the entire alliance's trust as you make your way into a position where you are privy to actually sensitive information and are able to actually directly influence the alliance as a whole. Some scrub spy joining on a 4 month toon and relaying fleet positions isn't going to come ******* close to winning a war.

Well, if you have nothing to hide then you have no problem checking all boxes. That simple

My main is a few weeks old.

So you basically just made my point.

Why then does seeing my wallet matter, on a 2 week old toon if it takes years (according to you) to do any significant damage to an Alliance?

Sounds like a terrible corp to join.

Try somewhere else, there's literally thouands of corps around. There's bound to be some of them that are actually the relaxed bunch of guys that you are looking for instead of paranoid space dictators.

In the end, this might have turned out well for you - do you really want to join a bunch of guys that operate like that?

Because all spies are annoying, as are awoxers, and keeping their numbers low saves a headache. Seriously, if you aren't doing anything shady, then what the hell do you care if someone can see your wallet? You know what the first thing a recruitment officer is goign to do when looking at your wallet? Make sure you aren't an obvious RMTer that will get the entire alliance in trouble.

Also, equating a permanent SSN to an easily-disabled API is very disingenuous.

Hiding = Malicious intent.

You'd think with the amount of time you've spent playing this game, you'd know how to recognize a spy.

I can't be 100% sure after reading just 2 posts out of 7, but I'd say that is not the case here.

In EVE, that is a safe assumption.

I disagree.

Again. A Devoted spy will do anything to get in. A Devoted spy will KNOW what you're looking for.

Granted, the person hiding COULD also be a spy.

However since the toon with the clean cut trans history and the one who is hiding his could both be spies, what exactly, then, is the point of wanting to check the trans history to expose this intent?

We're going in circles, the earlier poster was right,some folks just take this game WAY too seriously.

Just need to find some laid back folks to play with. I'm not putting myself through a Federal Background check and I'm not joining someone's stupidass forum and sit for 3 months just to apply and play.
If that means joining a smaller Alliance/Corp then so be it.

Your corp has required information on applications. Every single member supplies it. Then some guy comes along and refuses to share it. That is suspicious. Raises red flags.

Yes, a spy who puts in tons of time and effort is going to get in. But if you had any idea how many incompetent or lazy spies get busted by even the most basic checks, your head would probably explode. Most people are stupid and/or lazy.

I get it. That's why I didn't hassle her. I just said thanks and moved along.

Super-Spy, right?

lol.

Then what exactly are you even complaining about? If you won't even meet basic requirements, a corp is not going to be sad they lost a sketchy applicant.

I applied to a well known Corp/Alliance on my main, and sent their recruiter my API key. I unchecked everything that gave info on how much isk I have and my transactions. .

TEST has basic requirements?

This community never ceases to amaze me.

I didn't even mention TEST, and yes, Dreddit requires you to furnish an API and have been an active member of Reddit.

0/10.

It's space money, obviously the OP has something to hide

I know it's rather laborious to get into test through Dreddit, but my RvB alt got recruited into a test corp right off the bat.

And yes - I gave them my API...

Cuz bad players still think the API will do something to prevent spys.

Damn man, it just seems like EVERYTHING in this game is so friggin complicated...I just want to have some fun man, s**t....

Because they can, Deal with it

The downside to this is things like this Reddit requirement. Dude I don't really have loads of time to actually play, I now have to find time to post on a forum in order to join as well?

Yes, because they're a gaming community of their own and they want like-minded individuals in their corp, not just random riffraff like the rest of us corps and alliances.

How is asking me to post on a forum I'm not even interested in for 3 months just to join noob friendly? Same with Goons, pay 10 bucks to join this site to join, blah blah blah.

Because you're not being asked to post on a forum to join. The idea is that you should already be a member of that community.

If you apply for a job in real life that requires you to be security cleared, they may run a credit check on you anyway.

They're not that invasive. At least they didn't ask for proof of residency.

I applied to a well known Corp/Alliance on my main, and sent their recruiter my API key. I unchecked everything that gave info on how much isk I have and my transactions. They turned down my app because of it.

Yes I understand this is just a game, but my irritation due to this level of invasiveness comes from RL; my Employer didn't even ask me how much money I have and request an account of every transaction I've had that year. I don't like people knowing that sort of info about me. It's none of your business what I buy and how much money I have.

They claimed it was to ensure I wasn't being funded by a main for "Awoxing" or w/e....w/e that means.

WTF dude??? W/e happened to just sending an app to a guild/alliance/whatever, maybe doing a short interview then joining up with some cool folks and shooting stuff???

What the hell with this invasiveness/red tape; join such and such forum and wait 3 months, sit around for hours waiting for an interview, etc??

I understand there's a need to prevent spying but really? I mean if I were a spy, I would be MORE than willing to give you whatever you ask for; whatever it takes to get in. Especially since I'm probably an exp player so I already pretty much know what you'll consider a red flag.

Damn man, it just seems like EVERYTHING in this game is so friggin complicated...I just want to have some fun man, s**t....

Is that what you call noob friendly?

Cuz bad players still think the API will do something to prevent spys.

Is that what you call noob friendly?

Sure it wont stop a GOOD spy but it weeds out the lazy ones, nothing will ever truly stop any spy joining but there are some corps who want to do basic levels of security.
If you're not happy joining a corp who can see your API then find one that doesn't do security checks, just don't complain if that corp has a smash and grab at some point and loses a bunch of stuff.

Why would you be worried about a bad spy?

What corp gives members the ability to do a smash and grab besides noob corps?

You're proving some other poster's point.

I guarantee you, you're alienating 100% more players than effective spies. But it's worse than that it's giving you a false sense of security. If it isn't giving you a false sense of security than why are you even doing it?

And the sort of player who can't be assed to provide an API is not likely to be one who will contribute much to a corporation in the first place.

Why would you be worried about a bad spy?

What corp gives members the ability to do a smash and grab besides noob corps?

I guarantee you, you're alienating 100% more players than effective spies.

I gave it a few seconds of thought and I reckon transaction history would be the best way to identify if a character is an alt, who they hang out with, the names of any alts the character has and if the character just so happens to have the bhaalgorn that just went missing yesterday

Yeah I'm pretty clever I know I know

Also re. the assertion 'nothing can prevent a good spy', I imagine a basic check prevents bad spies that could still have taken your stuff if you hadn't made a check

What's the problem with showing your wallet history anyway, do you spend most of your isk on spacesmut?

Because there are certain game mechanics currently that force you to give them the ability if you want them to have any use whatsoever. (Ship maintenance arrays, canceling industry jobs, corp bookmarks - just to name a few.) And I'm not even talking about sharing intel.



I am fine with that. As I wrote above, I'd rather alienate 10 great players, than to let in one bad apple. If you recruit enough people with a strict recruiting policy as it is, why would you want to loosen it and open up to more threats?

With the old API Keys, most corporations simply asked for the Limited API, which i think most people were fine with. Very few asked for full API's and most refused it.

Since the new API system came out, thats all changed and corps feel welcome to their member's "full" API's.

The new custom API system should make it more clear which of these options used to be part of the 'limited' and 'full' api keys, so that corps dont feel as entitled to all your information.

I view "noob friendly" as being friendly to noobs in EVE. The goons kill 2 week old characters in retrievers. What you're calling noob friendly I just call neckbearded snobbery.

If you're giving random players roles who you don't know you're going to get burned eventually anyway. Try talking to people on TS3 or something before doing that, you don't need to force him to turn around and spread his butt cheeks before hand.

That's not true, corps were demanding for full API before the custom API's it was practically a cause of the change.

I just want to have some fun man, s**t....

It is true. I never gave up my full API key ever. Not to TEST alliance, not to IT, not to anyone no matter how big or small they were. they never asked for it and i never would have given it to them.

Now, the keys have changed and removed any sign of 'limited or full' keys. its just a single key with permissions you've chosen to hide for some mysterious spy-like reason and sov we cant trust you unless you give us every bit of information, because you're now choosing to selectively hold back that information. We're all paranoid, and this change has rubbed on that paranoia

That's exactly the point. A person who passes through our recruitment is no longer "a random player". That's what the recruitment should assure.

Did you read my previous posts?

Not furbishing API screams "I don't trust you and / or I am doing some sketchy **** I don't want you to know about." Not someone a corp would jump at the opportunity to recruit.

It is true. I never gave up my full API key ever. Not to TEST alliance, not to IT, not to anyone no matter how big or small they were. they never asked for it and i never would have given it to them.

Now, the keys have changed and removed any sign of 'limited or full' keys. its just a single key with permissions you've chosen to hide for some mysterious spy-like reason and sov we cant trust you unless you give us every bit of information, because you're now choosing to selectively hold back that information. We're all paranoid, and this change has rubbed on that paranoia

My corporation always demanded full API, and we still do demand full API (as in, all boxes checked). Every member of my corp (myself included obviously) gave their full API to a recruiter and through them made it available to the CEO and all directors, and all of them were completely fine with it.

I can't change how you view it, but people are telling you they're uncomfortable with it. The threshold for for privacy is different for people. On that note, the threshold for being an invasive prick is different for others.

Thats just wrong. There are security problems with giving you the full API. Such as evemails. I have evemails from old alliances. I have evemails with my friend's corp's killboard passwords and hosting database passwords because i manage his hosting for him.

Now i need to turn all of that over to you in order to be recruited? **** you bro.

People who are uncomfortable with it are completely free to join a corporation which does not demand it. The original question was "why do some corps ask for an API", and we're trying to give the reasons. If these reasons are not enough for you, once again, you're free to go look elsewhere.

Well, if you have nothing to hide then you have no problem checking all boxes. That simple

Right and I'm telling you what you're doing is pointless

-Doesn't keep out effective spies

-Alienates people

-Provides a false sense of security

I applied to a well known Corp/Alliance on my main, and sent their recruiter my API key. I unchecked everything that gave info on how much isk I have and my transactions. They turned down my app because of it.

Yes I understand this is just a game, but my irritation due to this level of invasiveness comes from RL; my Employer didn't even ask me how much money I have and request an account of every transaction I've had that year. I don't like people knowing that sort of info about me. It's none of your business what I buy and how much money I have.

They claimed it was to ensure I wasn't being funded by a main for "Awoxing" or w/e....w/e that means.

WTF dude??? W/e happened to just sending an app to a guild/alliance/whatever, maybe doing a short interview then joining up with some cool folks and shooting stuff???

What the hell with this invasiveness/red tape; join such and such forum and wait 3 months, sit around for hours waiting for an interview, etc??

I understand there's a need to prevent spying but really? I mean if I were a spy, I would be MORE than willing to give you whatever you ask for; whatever it takes to get in. Especially since I'm probably an exp player so I already pretty much know what you'll consider a red flag.

Damn man, it just seems like EVERYTHING in this game is so friggin complicated...I just want to have some fun man, s**t....

With the old API Keys, most corporations simply asked for the Limited API, which i think most people were fine with. Very few asked for full API's and most refused it.

Since the new API system came out, thats all changed and corps feel welcome to their member's "full" API's.

The new custom API system should make it more clear which of these options used to be part of the 'limited' and 'full' api keys, so that corps dont feel as entitled to all your information. Its bullshit having to turn over your entire trading habbits (and reviel all of your key trade items) simply to join a corp. That never used to be a problem with the old API system.

Its simply a problem of how it is presented to the players. It has changed, and in turn has changed some player's expectations.

Thats just wrong. There are security problems with giving you the full API. Such as evemails.

There's a good reason to ask for a full API.

he API are not only used to keep spies out, but also to ensure that people actually bring what they promise, both asset wise, and skillpoint wise.
some corps have monthly member fees, and if someone says ''they can't pay it'' and want it postponed, they can see if that's true via the API.

There's a good reason to ask for a full API.

i used to be the director of the industry/mining sector in one of my old corporations.
we had an applicant one day that wanted to join.
he said ''OOH YEAH, i can pilot a rorqual, i have a rorqual blahblahblah'' i wanted a full API to get proof of this rorqual, both skillwise and asset wise.
he refused to give us the API, but he ''were currently mining with friends, and were hauling in the rorqual'' and we could ''join in and experience how it is to have rorqual boosting and hauling''
frankly, obvious trap is obvious.
people also have a tendency to spew out crap about their assets.

The API are not only used to keep spies out, but also to ensure that people actually bring what they promise, both asset wise, and skillpoint wise.
some corps have monthly member fees, and if someone says ''they can't pay it'' and want it postponed, they can see if that's true via the API.

you can do crap with the API else than looking at a characters info.

So extortion then?

how did you comprehend this as extortion?
when you promise you have certain items and 100mil SP, you better damn prove you have it.
if you agree to pay a monthly fee to your corp when joining (which some have as a part of ship replacement programs) and you don't pay with the excuse ''i don't have the ISK, can i pay it a bit later'' if you have the isk.
it's not extortion in any way.
if you sign up for a recurring payment IRL, yet haven't paid and still use the facilities and benefits from said thing and they wan't the money; it's not extortion, it's collection of debt.

The difference being of course that one only has one real life. I can't "wash" him or "recreate" him.

Be nice if we could, I was a bad boy when I was younger. Maybe that's why MI5, CIA and ASIO won't gimme a job

if you sign up for a recurring payment IRL, yet haven't paid and still use the facilities and benefits from said thing and they wan't the money; it's not extortion, it's collection of debt.

I view "noob friendly" as being friendly to noobs in EVE. The goons kill 2 week old characters in retrievers. What you're calling noob friendly I just call neckbearded snobbery.

I don't know though at this point, people in EVE seem to think in strange ways, maybe I'm just crazy. Maybe I'm in an insane asylum having a lucid dream doped up on pills right now.

ex-+tor-+tion/ik-êst+¦rSH+Ön/
Noun:
The practice of obtaining something, esp. money, through force or threats

How you don't see that as extortionary behavior I don't know

I SEE ON YOUR API YOU HAVE MY 20 MIL, PAY UP OR YOU'RE KICKED

Lol, funny. Real world goverments uses same excuse to justify spying on their citizens. And everyone has something to hide. You just dont know it yet.

When really its matter if goverment has right to that information in first place.

I have been in many corporations and i have newer submitted api for checks. Clearly the leaders dont give me access to their full api so i can check that theyre not pirates setting me up for a trap

That has been my bigest issue with api checks. It should be two way street. you want mine, i get yours...

And really good spy is newer catched by api checks. Heck Bob was brought down by trusted director that desided hes had enough... So he was someone that eventually turned as spy...

I disagree.

Again. A Devoted spy will do anything to get in. A Devoted spy will KNOW what you're looking for.

Granted, the person hiding COULD also be a spy.

However since the toon with the clean cut trans history and the one who is hiding his could both be spies, what exactly, then, is the point of wanting to check the trans history to expose this intent?

We're going in circles, the earlier poster was right,some folks just take this game WAY too seriously.

Just need to find some laid back folks to play with. I'm not putting myself through a Federal Background check and I'm not joining someone's stupidass forum and sit for 3 months just to apply and play.
If that means joining a smaller Alliance/Corp then so be it.

Protip: anchor a can in a SS and drop things for your alt in there, station logs are recorded in your journal so don't do it there

Skill books, PLEX, drop in the can. Then pick it up with the alt.

Though the alt should buy most skillbooks itself

I applied to a well known Corp/Alliance on my main, and sent their recruiter my API key. I unchecked everything that gave info on how much isk I have and my transactions. They turned down my app because of it.

Yes I understand this is just a game, but my irritation due to this level of invasiveness comes from RL; my Employer didn't even ask me how much money I have and request an account of every transaction I've had that year. I don't like people knowing that sort of info about me. It's none of your business what I buy and how much money I have.

They claimed it was to ensure I wasn't being funded by a main for "Awoxing" or w/e....w/e that means.

WTF dude??? W/e happened to just sending an app to a guild/alliance/whatever, maybe doing a short interview then joining up with some cool folks and shooting stuff???

What the hell with this invasiveness/red tape; join such and such forum and wait 3 months, sit around for hours waiting for an interview, etc??

I understand there's a need to prevent spying but really? I mean if I were a spy, I would be MORE than willing to give you whatever you ask for; whatever it takes to get in. Especially since I'm probably an exp player so I already pretty much know what you'll consider a red flag.

Damn man, it just seems like EVERYTHING in this game is so friggin complicated...I just want to have some fun man, s**t....

Come on man, you know spies play to WIN dude.

You really think paying 30 bucks for a 90-day toon just to build up a credible history ISN'T worth billions of isk or info that will win a huge war???

Even IF the spy has to pay it (which we both know he probably wont;, the Alliance will probably pony that up,it's 30 bucks) it's still worth it. 20 bucks for plex, or 30 bucks for a toon that could net you billions???

Damn man, it just seems like EVERYTHING in this game is so friggin complicated...I just want to have some fun man, s**t....

Why are Corporations So Invasive???

In EVE, that is a safe assumption.

They claimed it was to ensure I wasn't being funded by a main for "Awoxing" or w/e....w/e that means.

Yes I understand this is just a game, but my irritation due to this level of invasiveness comes from RL; my Employer didn't even ask me how much money I have and request an account of every transaction I've had that year. I don't like people knowing that sort of info about me. It's none of your business what I buy and how much money I have.

Actually in Eve the equation is more like:

Logged In = Malicious Intent.

This thread is one of the many reasons I left 0.0.
I don't trust anyone enough to give them my full API and be responsible with it. If they don't want a fully skilled logistics pilot or a minmatar artillery specialist on the off chance I might be a spy then that's their loss, f*** em. Trust is a two way street, I won't trust a corp if it doesn't trust me.

This thread is one of the many reasons I left 0.0.
I don't trust anyone enough to give them my full API and be responsible with it. If they don't want a fully skilled logistics pilot or a minmatar artillery specialist on the off chance I might be a spy then that's their loss, f*** em. Trust is a two way street, I won't trust a corp if it doesn't trust me.

....descends into belligerent lunacy (just like irl)

Ok....I'll be clearer about my confusion:

If I'm a spy, I'm after something, right?

I'm probably an experienced player, right?

Me being a spy AND experienced, I already know what API keys show, and what you would consider a red flag, right?

So then wouldn't you expect me to apply with a pristine toon?

How does my transaction history help you determine whether or not I'm a spy? Is this foolproof?

on the risk that someone already posted it (dont want to read all 7 pages =)

http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20120625

You're in the wrong game.

Alright....I get it. it's not fool proof, but it's SOMETHING to weed out SOME potential spies, okay.

There are plenty of other corps for you to choose from.

Spies. Spais... Yeah, I'm interested in what your pixels are doing so I can report on them to someone else that can't manage his own pixels.

It's a ******* game, people. Some of you take it way to seriously.

It is a game, and having someone join your corp with purpose to steal all your stuff may not be fun for them. And you may not be interesetd, but there are people who make accounts for that purpose. It being game, does not mean they should make it easy.

I get the whole "Guiding Hand" thing, I really do. Some of this game's most epic infiltrations are things of pure beauty that'll go down as legend. (And no, I'm not talking about the disgraced lawyer.) When done right and with patience it's serious woody time.

Want to join my corp? No problem. Two things are gonna happen:
1) You won't be asked to move all your swag into a corp hangar, and I don't want access to your swag. Keep it wherever you're comfortable.
2) I won't give you access to valuable assets. Ever. At all.

Don't like that? Keep walking. Why have a corp? I like teaching people, and I like helping people out (yes, I give out a lot in isk and goods yearly). But do you honestly think I'm stupid enough to give you access to valuable corp assets? No, I'm not. And I'll never tell you about the tower(s) that the alts have that control the serious prints and materials.

I get the whole "Guiding Hand" thing, I really do. Some of this game's most epic infiltrations are things of pure beauty that'll go down as legend. (And no, I'm not talking about the disgraced lawyer.) When done right and with patience it's serious woody time.

Want to join my corp? No problem. Two things are gonna happen:
1) You won't be asked to move all your swag into a corp hangar, and I don't want access to your swag. Keep it wherever you're comfortable.
2) I won't give you access to valuable assets. Ever. At all.

Don't like that? Keep walking. Why have a corp? I like teaching people, and I like helping people out (yes, I give out a lot in isk and goods yearly). But do you honestly think I'm stupid enough to give you access to valuable corp assets? No, I'm not. And I'll never tell you about the tower(s) that the alts have that control the serious prints and materials.

As I also said earlier I do understand people invest lots of time and energy into this game. TOO much for some jackknob to come and just steal all of your stuff. I totally get that. I simply, again, don't how my transaction history shows that.

Good points in this.

Perhaps the corp managment rework we're expecting (and been praying for) will alleviate much of the neccessity for so much "security"...

Imagine if Novell security in the "old days" was as bad as corp management is today. You'd have to do a police check and sign an NDA to get access to a computer and the documents on it to do your work.

A big red flag out of transaction history is getting large amounts of funds from other characters. It usually means you're an alt or an RMTer.

Both things are people you wanna reject unless of course the fact that you are an alt is put up front with something along the lines of "I'm an alt of an existing member" or "I'm a on a combat alt that is funded by my missioning main" and in both cases they want confirmation from the main character.

For the record, I REGULARLY transfer hundreds of millions of isk between alts for market activity or to buy blinkies. Your standard above would mean I'm a spai.

And it goes to show just how foolish that kind of standard is (and how the transaction history means precisely d!ck). If I'm going to set my heart on infiltration the way people here are talking about, I'd do it on a clean, brand new account, do all the tutorials, spend some time in FW losing ships, get into a couple throw-away corps of people that I've just met, and then started sniffing around the door.

Tell me exactly what having my API will show you about me and my intentions.

Let me answer for you: nothing.

Without context it would make you look spy-ish, but I said that UNLESS there was something up front like the alt being a known alt of the already trusted main.

Not to mention it allows people to connect other dots. There are 3rd party tools that allow people to see your chat history. By looking at all the activity of your character and sifting through chat history people can figure out a lot about who you really are.

You guys in a lot of ways are just proxy accounts

You have absolutely no privacy and you know if you even say something out of line, you're in trouble because they actively monitor your emails, your posts, even your chat history.

You really aren't individuals playing the game.

I see it pretty clearly now

0.0 the slavish hordes and the Free Peoples of High Sec with varying levels in-between.

"why dey so scared to give fullAPI??"

Some people don't want to RP as someone else's property.

Have you ever held a job or been in a position where you were privy to sensitive information? That's generally a lengthy legal process, in the case of a diplomat with top secret clearance, a multi-month one. And yes, they keep an eye on you.

EVE is extremely tame by comparison, and its preventing the same thing.

Continue to compare yourself to 007, nerd

Would you like a picture of the cover of my diplomatic passport?

I don't like it. I get enough of the damn government snooping around in our business, taxing me to death, etc.

Now I have to deal with a big brother in my hobby too?

Reading my mail messages, transactions, etc.

I really hope CCP stops this crap in the future. I damn near quit the game over it

There's a reason why corps are ripped off for billions. And I doubt very seriously that it's from toons that have spent years as part of "the team" (except in those sweet, rare circumstances of patient planning and scut work).

I gladly handed over full APIs to all may characters. I got nothing to hide.

Which makes me wonder...


Why are so many people afraid to give up a full API? You guys trying to keep secrets in your evemails? Are you a bunch of perverts or spies or perverted spies?

Sure

Sent.

The thing is you didn't receive any API info in return... It was a one way deal.

Some people aren't like you, I'm not saying it's bad to be like you. The world needs people like you, I respect your lack of dignity. Could you imagine if everyone in the world was an individual in possession of dignity and his own free will? It just wouldn't work. Your sheepish slavishness makes the world turn/

The thing is you didn't receive any API info in return... It was a one way deal.

It's really a very submissive thing that you're doing.

You're completely laying yourself bare in acquiescence to a 0.0 lord.

Some people aren't like you, I'm not saying it's bad to be like you. The world needs people like you, I respect your lack of dignity. Could you imagine if everyone in the world was an individual in possession of dignity and his own free will? It just wouldn't work. Your sheepish slavishness makes the world turn/

Some people simply have nothing to hide, and thus are giving up nothing.

At least I have the dignity to be open about my correspondences on homoerotic Eve fanfiction.

Oh but you do have so much to lose you just don't know it. Your ego is suffering beneath the surface. Soon you will be sacrificing your sexuality

You have absolutely no privacy and you know if you even say something out of line, you're in trouble because they actively monitor your emails, your posts, even your chat history.

You should see what happens on TEST fleets when hostiles refuse to come and play.

I'm still scarred by the dramatic reading of that homoerotic fanfiction involving Spock, Kirk, Picard, Sponge Bob and Harry Potter.

You understand that the API doesn't give access to chat history, right? Only I see my emails, and Goonswarm services don't have any API key of mine that grants access to my evemails. Also, being in the directorate, I don't know of anybody tasked with monitoring posts made by our members in every imaginable forum. If somebody posts something "out of line," we just mock them endlessly. v0v

Not to mention it allows people to connect other dots. There are 3rd party tools that allow people to see your chat history. By looking at all the activity of your character and sifting through chat history people can figure out a lot about who you really are.

BINGO.....

Game <> Fun

This is Eve.

That's great you're a director, it's really besides the point. But you should know mocking someone is a form of social coercion and through the application of things like this it's no surprise that most goons end up sounding/thinking the same. Especially after they've submitted so thoroughly to the group before hand by giving up their full API.

(edit: not to mention paying 10$ to join a forum)

Believe it or not, we don't indoctrinate our members.

Most of us in Goonswarm are adults and we can think for ourselves

But you should know mocking someone is a form of social coercion and through the application of things like this it's no surprise that most goons end up sounding/thinking the same. Especially after they've submitted so thoroughly to the group before hand by giving up their full API.

The politically correct movement needs to be taken off life support, because aggressive behavior and irreverent speech arent bullying and coercion by themselves. Quit telling people they`re being victimized because you think someone is a jackass.

Love the sociopolitical and psychological ranting that comes off like someone took an online sociology course and are now experts on human behavior.

I took a philosophy course and now i'm an ass-hole.

"I can't come to dinner honey, someone is geing WRONG on the internet!"

Wow, you seem surprised that members of a nullsec alliance oppose ideas that ruin nullsec.

Believe it or not, we don't indoctrinate our members. Most of us in Goonswarm are adults and we can think for ourselves, but we tend to agree on certain things like "hey perhaps changing the game to favor hisec even more isn't a great idea."

This must be a shocking revelation

I've already refuted this and I believe it was in response to you. The purpose of Goonswarm isn't to get EVE players to register on SA, it's to bring SA members into EVE and have fun.

This coming from someone who just went off on a tangent about internet bullying?

It's not as though I thought you'd accept the obvious revelations I just laid down. You have to sleep at night after all.

Coercion implies threat, real or imagined. if there is no threat than its an enticement or a bribe. Ill bring the crayon next time.

You don't think there's threat inherent in this situation. Duurr let me think

kicked out of corp

blow your ship up

take your stuff

Or just the threat of not being popular with his goonie friends anymore and having wasted like 30 bucks in total.

But no you're right, the only reason Goons posted against tracking titans and other things we do hate as a whole is because they were coerced into believing that tracking titans were overpowered, when they themselves truly loved losing ships to two volleys from a titan whose guns track better than the artillery on their Maelstroms

Newbies don't have any real reason to even care about their eve stuff. They're putting in the api of their two day old character that's in the middle of the tutorial in highsec.

Newbies don't have any real reason to even care about their eve stuff. They're putting in the api of their two day old character that's in the middle of the tutorial in highsec.

No.

I'll just apply elsewhere.

What about the SA registration fee and the 3 months of forum grinding?

sometimes I wonder if even a decent fraction of goons ran the tutorial starting out

Wooooooooow.

What about the SA registration fee and the 3 months of forum grinding?

I'm clearly trying to call out the obvious fact that of the almost 4000 members in their SA corp most of them paid $ explicitly to join

I refuse to believe that there are thousands of people who paid money for an internet forum for no reason, also.

I can only assume you're trying to suck up to goons because you want to join them. So I won't judge you as an idiot (or should I?).

I'm clearly trying to call out the obvious fact that of the almost 4000 members in their SA corp most of them paid $ explicitly to join

Run along now newbie