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Bobo Cindekela
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
27
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Posted - 2012.11.04 07:38:00 -
[91] - Quote
inflation is only a problem in your mind, dont hold large sums of currency, keep it moving in ventures and tied up in income producting assets and you will be fine. You are about to engage in an arguement with a forum alt,-á this is your final warning. |

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
429
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Posted - 2012.11.04 08:25:00 -
[92] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote: Inflation is entirely caused, increased, or decreased by the money supply. .
Sooo the Drone Alloy nerf was not the priciple cause of the massive inflation of ship prices?  Meta-gaming for NULL SECCers: Whine on the forums like a little ***** until CCP gets sick of you and hands you everything you ask for just to shut you up.-á Typical NULL seccer whine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u299-o66wo&feature=related |

Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
884
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Posted - 2012.11.04 09:40:00 -
[93] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Incentive more dudes to travel with dozens plex in their shuttle hold will definitively remove isk from the game.  Nah. After they get burned a couple of times, they'll stop buying them. No sales = no tax = no sink.
There are always null sec/high sec pubbies with billions of isk in their cargo, be it in form of plex or BPO's  NPC items actually are a good sink, however this system could be improved, largely improved and a lot more dynamic without stepping seriously on player made items market.
brb |

Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
884
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Posted - 2012.11.04 09:43:00 -
[94] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Val'Dore wrote: Inflation is entirely caused, increased, or decreased by the money supply. .
Sooo the Drone Alloy nerf was not the priciple cause of the massive inflation of ship prices? 
There are still some claiming it's because they bump miners or barges genocide, worst, you still have idiots claiming loot drop/reprocess was "too much"  brb |

Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
884
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Posted - 2012.11.04 09:56:00 -
[95] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:The more people that shoot NPCs, and do missions, the more ISK enters the economy.
The cheaper ships are and the less players shoot NPC's. But now I'm going to receive another economy lesson from Ford fans or math fans unable to realise or even include a single and most important fact: it's not meant to be just another Asian farming MMO or Trading On Line, the moment you start thinking alike you will never understand i's only a game, and as a game you're supposed to log in and have fun, not to have a second job you pay for. brb |

Webvan
State War Academy Caldari State
120
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Posted - 2012.11.04 12:55:00 -
[96] - Quote
Taxes only deflate the value. You need to spread out demand more with greater goods and services. Competition drives down prices, puts value into the currency. Not just direct competition, but the competition through a broader choice of goods and services to purchase, more diversity.
And yes it only slows the devalue, as ISK faucets continue. Like they will probably plug the current faction isk faucet (through LP) soon and open another elsewhere. |

Dar Manic
Republic University Minmatar Republic
32
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Posted - 2012.11.04 16:19:00 -
[97] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:The more people that shoot NPCs, and do missions, the more ISK enters the economy. The cheaper ships are and the less players shoot NPC's. But now I'm going to receive another economy lesson from Ford fans or math fans unable to realise or even include a single and most important fact: it's not meant to be just another Asian farming MMO or Trading On Line, the moment you start thinking alike you will never understand i's only a game, and as a game you're supposed to log in and have fun, not to have a second job you pay for.
bold / underline for emphasis. I just don't understand null sec players.
Please note: Anytime I use the phrase PvP in a post, I'm talking about shooting/combat/killing things/blowing things up.-á Thank you. |

Cartheron Crust
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
36
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Posted - 2012.11.05 03:53:00 -
[98] - Quote
I believe you need a T3 warp scrambler. |

Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
23
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Posted - 2012.11.05 08:01:00 -
[99] - Quote
Increase sinks or decrease faucets. Lower bounty payouts, it's a temp nerf at worst because deflation will follow.
signaturrrrrrrr |

MinefieldS
1 Sick Duck Standss on something
160
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Posted - 2012.11.05 08:55:00 -
[100] - Quote
Inflation doesn't matter because you can't just stop using the only available currency. Unlike Zimbabwe where you could sell your eggs for worthless trillions of Zimbabwe money or sell them for $1USD if you could find someone with $1 USD and not get your arm chopped off in the process. |
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Black Mongrel
Mongrel A.D.A.M.S. Genesis II
0
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Posted - 2013.01.03 19:42:00 -
[101] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:Touval Lysander wrote: Correct. No isk is removed from the game, it simply transfers ownership.
Ultimately, the thing often mistaken here is where people say earning too much isk generates inflation. It does not.
The more people that shoot NPCs, and do missions, the more ISK enters the economy. Quote:Spending the isk does. You can make people poorer as much as you like but spending patterns don't neccessarily change because people probably need the stuff they actually buy.
I've said only recently that the best sink to "use up money" (if we even have to) is to put a cost on using stuff - such as maintenance costs, depreciation etc. Like we actually have in RL - it is it's own market driver and modifier without the need for PvP as the ONLY method to drive the economy. PvP drives the economy, along with PvE. Shooting ships, and getting ships blown up is what allows the economy to work. "Taxes", which your idea is really no different than, isn't about how the economy is driven. "Taxing" in a video game is how currency or money -EVE has money, WoW has currency- is removed. Quote:If we want to compare RL economic theory in Eve we must first accept that we have to use RL economic practise - in it's entirety - not the bits that suit and call it a VR economy in isolation. Comparing real economic theory to EVE is perfectly viable, it's modelled after a real world economy and some things translate. Blizzard doesn't have economists working on WoW, CCP does with EVE. Nothing you wrote about really had anything to do with economics though, they were just things that involve money, and how to spend it. They would indeed help to reduce inflation in EVE, but that doesn't really mean you're talking economics though. EVEs economy is an exceptional thing, and the guys at CCP really know what they're doing. I don't think many people really grasp the significance of PLEX and how It's used to combat inflation in EVE. Because CCP went on a "gold standard" you don't just worry about "how much" ISK is in the system, but "what is it worth". Taking to much out can be as bad as putting to much in, possibly even worse. It's ok for people to have lots of ISK in EVE, as long as it's being distributated. The only way to distribute wealth in EVE is to blow **** up. As long as enough things blow up the enocomy thrives, regardless of how much isk is available. Less **** blowing up means more **** being mined that is used to make more **** that people aren't buying. ISK is worthless when things don't get blown up. There is always a bottom that money works it's way to without things like stock markets. EVE doesn't really have any means of distributing wealth from the bottom, back to the top again. Things like PoS fuel aren't large enough distributors, and sinse there's a system of generating money it's cool, as long as the "gold standard" is controlled properly to ensure that the money doesn't sink in value to fast. CCP is our federal reserve, and they trade gold -PLEX- as the economy demands it, at least they hope to. They're doing the same thing the US use to do prior to 1971, when the dollar was based on the value of gold and the dollar was the standard by which all other money was valued against. The Federal Reserve would, and still does, manipulate gold to ensure that the dollar held a certian value, and they could do it esier. The big difference being that PLEX isn't a limitted resource that requires actual labor to obtain, and can be physically traded in large quantities. That and we can't really turn around and demand to trade in all of our ISK for PLEX, and crash the value of PLEX. I'm also aware that PLEX is based on the value of the dollar as well. The economic depth of EVE is very deep indeed. Making suggestions is easy, understanding how those suggestion would actually impact the economy in EVE is beyond most of us, myself included. Just blow **** up.
This. The amount of zeros in a given ISK amount makes no difference, as long as it makes sense compared to the price of resources.
The PLEX-standard is an interesting thing. When you buy a PLEX, is there ever a new one created? Or are they just recycled?
DarthNefarius wrote: Sooo the Drone Alloy nerf was not the priciple cause of the massive inflation of ship prices?
It drove up ship prices because resources suddenly began to flow at a slower rate. Nerfing drone alloys did not cause ISK inflation.
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Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra Gallente Federation
352
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Posted - 2013.01.04 20:08:00 -
[102] - Quote
Black Mongrel wrote:DarthNefarius wrote: Sooo the Drone Alloy nerf was not the priciple cause of the massive inflation of ship prices?
It drove up ship prices because resources suddenly began to flow at a slower rate. Nerfing drone alloys did not cause ISK inflation. ^^^This Ship prices were being artificialy kept down by the abundance of minerals in the Drone Alloys. I think it was ~40% of all minerals came from Drone Alloys with another 15%-20% coming from reprocessing loot. This masked inflation by keeping ships inexpensive, but couldn't totally hide it because the price of PLEX kept creeping ever higher. As more people could afford a PLEX because ISK was pooling in their wallets, due to abundant resources and the low cost of consumables [ships are consumables too], ISK continued to decline in value.
Inflation was happening, people were just looking at the wrong indicators, and saying "Nope, no inflation here." "I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
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Cindare
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8
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Posted - 2013.01.04 20:11:00 -
[103] - Quote
Girl from Nantucket, The best friend he ever had -- Inflationary |

Tarvos Telesto
Blood Fanatics
697
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Posted - 2013.01.04 20:28:00 -
[104] - Quote
How about tax for breathing? or sending message in local ?
Every Goon txt "fofofo" and VoV should cost 100.000 isk. EvE isn't game, its style of living. |

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
565
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Posted - 2013.01.04 20:30:00 -
[105] - Quote
Mortimer Civeri wrote:Black Mongrel wrote:DarthNefarius wrote: Sooo the Drone Alloy nerf was not the priciple cause of the massive inflation of ship prices?
It drove up ship prices because resources suddenly began to flow at a slower rate. Nerfing drone alloys did not cause ISK inflation. ^^^This Ship prices were being artificialy kept down by the abundance of minerals in the Drone Alloys. I think it was ~40% of all minerals came from Drone Alloys with another 15%-20% coming from reprocessing loot. This masked inflation by keeping ships inexpensive, but couldn't totally hide it because the price of PLEX kept creeping ever higher. As more people could afford a PLEX because ISK was pooling in their wallets, due to abundant resources and the low cost of consumables [ships are consumables too], ISK continued to decline in value. Inflation was happening, people were just looking at the wrong indicators, and saying "Nope, no inflation here." What were the right indicators to be looking for? |

Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
291
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Posted - 2013.01.04 21:08:00 -
[106] - Quote
In practice, there are some pretty straightforward ways to shut off ISK faucets, but they run into the problem that EVE is a game. For instance, let's take insurance.
Now, realistically, an insurance company must take in at least as much as it pays out + operating costs. So CCP could take two tacks: One would be to sum up the payments, and scale the payouts to be less than that sum plus some handwaved "operating cost"--which would turn insurance into a small but steady ISK sink. The other way would be to follow the practices of actual insurance companies, and charge more ISK to people who blow up more ships. Simple, right? Except that you've now given players a disincentive to blow up ships. Whoops.
So the question, as Lin-Young puts it, is how many faucets are tolerable without making the game intolerable? And if that results in too much ISK entering the game, how do you make the sinks attractive? It's actually an interesting question.
Let's take bounties as another example. RIght now, reasonably, they would be tied to taxes and fees paid to the interested faction, or to CONCORD. Say that in a given system there is a hard cap on per-rat bounties equal to the current bounties, and a hard cap on total bounties paid, set by the taxes and fees collected in that system by the organization paying the bounties (usually CONCORD). This would result in mission hubs paying out less and less as more and more people crowded in, which would encourage people to spread out more--or, there could be some play where CONCORD would start collecting fees for {handwave} so that it could pay out more in bounties, up to a point. That might have some interesting side effects.
The fees wouldn't even have to be paid directly to CONCORD. if CCP were particularly ambitious, they'd model CONCORD charging the empires, who paid the charges from tax revenues... |

Skex Relbore
Space Exploitation Inc Get Off My Lawn
213
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Posted - 2013.01.04 21:31:00 -
[107] - Quote
There is not, has not and cannot ever be an "inflation" problem in EVE's economy. The reason is that ISK isn't a currency in the same way that dollars are in the real world.
ISK is just another harvest-able commodity that is extremely portable making it into a good vehicle for the exchange of goods and services, you get it generally from mining red +'s with combat ships rather than roids in barges.
Changes in prices are the result of shifting supply surpluses/shortages and will generally balance out as the relative values of different activities shift. The value of an individual isk gets diluted sufficiently and you can expect to see more people shift to other activities. As someone earlier in the thread suggested if the price of minerals doubles you can expect to see a lot more barges and exhumers running around as people shift from isk making to mineral harvesting you will see prices adjust to a new equilibrium.
That ain't inflation , neither is this .
I mean come on people if you are going to cry about inflation could you at least provide a little evidence that there is some inflation first?
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Felicity Love
STARKRAFT
137
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Posted - 2013.01.04 21:38:00 -
[108] - Quote
Last year, FanFest, Dr. Eyjo said more taxes would be introduced over time.

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I Love Lesbians
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
21
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Posted - 2013.01.04 21:58:00 -
[109] - Quote
more inflation please, everything is still way too cheap in regards to how easy it is to make isk |

Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1507
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Posted - 2013.01.04 22:07:00 -
[110] - Quote
One way to add sinks to the game is to add new features that include ISK sinks. For example, we got this door with unfinished features behind it. We could have:
Establishments that cost ISK to rent. Gambling and other games that cost ISK to play, and are taxed. Sale of BPCs to make illegal drugs with the ISK to buy these BPCs going to an NPC dealer (and a kickback to the establishment owner). Bribes that must be paid by the establishment owner to station personnel to look the other way. In space players could scan others that are trying to smuggle the drug BPCs, and set them suspect unless the target pays a ranso...er... fine. To have the right to set the target as a suspect the enforcing player has to have a license, sold by CONCORD.
All of this would add sinks without forcing anyone to pay them. Its their choice to partake in the new content, or not.
The POS revamp could also add sinks. Allow many more structures to be anchored all over the place, and in high sec the NPCs charge for the right to do so. Bigger the structure, bigger the permit fee. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
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Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1064
|
Posted - 2013.01.04 22:10:00 -
[111] - Quote
How do you tackle inflation in your real life? Same thing. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." -á --- Sorlac |

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
565
|
Posted - 2013.01.04 23:11:00 -
[112] - Quote
I'm trying to understand what the inflation is that is being combated with these suggestions. I assume that the idea is that if too much money is in the economy that prices will rise (could be totally off here), but by what functional mechanism? |

Jamyl Khanid
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
17
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Posted - 2013.01.04 23:22:00 -
[113] - Quote
2 scripted dictors and a faction Web? |

NEONOVUS
Saablast Followers
286
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Posted - 2013.01.05 00:57:00 -
[114] - Quote
Why not for nonfw lp stores drop tags and replace with an isk value? This would make an excellent isk sink |

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
3618
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Posted - 2013.01.05 01:46:00 -
[115] - Quote
Aineko Macx wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:Before anything is solved a problem should probably be demonstrated  Even CCPs economist stated that the current inflation in eve is a bit higher than desirable, and I agree.
Yes but when? Months and months ago. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
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