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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2005.04.10 07:18:00 -
[1]
What prompted the change, guys? From what I'd read on the forums lately, you seemed quite set against the whole idea but now I see you're part of an IGA.
Is the upcoming patch adding something to the game which prompted this also?
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Neslo
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Posted - 2005.04.10 07:26:00 -
[2]
Well I'd guess it's a matter of economics.
It's cheaper to declare war on corporations / allianes.
Instead of 4-5 seperate war declarations, they just declare once and pay a one time 50 fee (times whatever other wars have been declared) instead of 50 for the first corp 100 for the second MC corp, 150 for the third MC corp, 200 for the 4th one and so on...
I'm just guessing that they didn't want to have to fork over a minimuim of 500 mil (base) for every war they fought per week... much cheaper to just make it under 50-100 mil isk on the people they can contract on...
I'm just guessing though...
Neslo
From Ashes to Ashes... From Dust to Dust....
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magickangaroo
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Posted - 2005.04.10 07:39:00 -
[3]
Edited by: magickangaroo on 10/04/2005 07:43:56
if im wrong im wrong but i would have thought that seein as they are still available to hire as individual corps the primary reason would be if one of the corps took a contract the others wouldnt have an empire war they wouldnt get paid for.
mgk
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Seleene
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Posted - 2005.04.10 08:08:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Seleene on 10/04/2005 08:08:55
Was wondering when this would come up.... 
The MC IGA has been formed in response to the laws soon to be passed by CONCORD regarding war declaration costs, etc... The members of the IGA are free to come and go as they please should they recieve a job offer that requires them to do solo work. The MC IGA is seen by us as a "home" that we all shall reside in while not employed or when employed jointly.
While we did not want to do this, it is my/our hope after conversations with some of the GMs and Devs that eventually CCP will implement a scaled down alliance system that recognizes the mercenary profession and at that time we can convert over to that. Some of the many suggestions I have heard are that members of a 'mercenary' alliance would not be allowed to errect a POS or ever claim territory.
In short, we have done this because we are determined to make our profession work. We will continue to adapt to the game mechanics and use whatever means necessary to play our chosen role within the game.
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T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today! |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2005.04.10 08:19:00 -
[5]
Seleene,
Sounds like a good idea about making customized alliance systems that tailor to a specific style of gameplay. Perhaps it could be taken further and a difference can be made between 0.0 Alliances and Empire Alliances with different rules that are designed to give different benefits and rewards which relate to the money-making ability of the alliances etc.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Nebba Kenezzer
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Posted - 2005.04.10 08:26:00 -
[6]
I didn't think the word "Coalition" could be overused so much.
Anti-Semitism in the Arab Media |
Seleene
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Posted - 2005.04.10 08:28:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Seleene,
Sounds like a good idea about making customized alliance systems that tailor to a specific style of gameplay. Perhaps it could be taken further and a difference can be made between 0.0 Alliances and Empire Alliances with different rules that are designed to give different benefits and rewards which relate to the money-making ability of the alliances etc.
Exactly, Josh. There is a lot of stuff on the table at CCP and there is no reason that the alliance system cannot be altered to account for just the things you said. It would certianly be easier than trying to come up with something new completely from scratch. 
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T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today! |
Trooper B99
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Posted - 2005.04.10 08:51:00 -
[8]
/me likes his new tag
As sel says, when you look at it, it doesn't actually change anything about the way the MC work.
As has been demonstrated before, it's not hard for corporations to leave an IGA to do their own thing, and it's not hard to rejoin. End of the day, it's the cheapest most efficient way to war alliances post patch, ergo, the MC is doing it.
Adaptation is a wonderful thing. 
Wirykomi Team Racer - COLOSSUS Championships Year 106
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Righteous Fury
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Posted - 2005.04.10 08:52:00 -
[9]
So that'll be...
Domain, Lonetrek, Genesis, Essence, et al to MC? 
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Nina Mires
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Posted - 2005.04.10 09:01:00 -
[10]
Nah all of empire 
Nina
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Seleene
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Posted - 2005.04.10 09:22:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Righteous Fury
So that'll be...
Domain, Lonetrek, Genesis, Essence, et al to MC?
Nah, but I've always wondered why there isn't a permanent "warzone" stamped on Empire anyway...
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T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today! |
Draximus Cane
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Posted - 2005.04.10 11:43:00 -
[12]
Yay Im in somithing I said i never would be!
\0/
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Sivona
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Posted - 2005.04.10 11:48:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Draximus Cane
Yay Im in somithing I said i never would be!
\0/
Seleene's new sex toy?
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Riddari
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Posted - 2005.04.10 12:01:00 -
[14]
Sorry but wouldn't the "joining/leaving" alliance be a similar "exploit" as MC has accused other corporations of other ingame alliances who have been at war, of doing?
¼©¼
a history |
Latex Mistress
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Posted - 2005.04.10 12:10:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Riddari
Sorry but wouldn't the "joining/leaving" alliance be a similar "exploit" as MC has accused other corporations of other ingame alliances who have been at war, of doing?
The difference is that we're doing it in order to declare war more efficiently, Xetic did it to war dodge more efficiently.
Thanks for the concern, though. 
If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
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Trooper B99
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Posted - 2005.04.10 12:13:00 -
[16]
Well, the beef the MC corps had and posted about over the last wee while was corps leaving the IGA specifically to avoid being war targets in empire.
When there are individual contracts between the members of the MC, they leave to declare the war. Clients don't always want to use all 4 corps to declare wars, to force them to do so is frankly stupid and cuts down on business.
The MC adapts to give our clients best value for money killing, be it individual corporations or in the case of the Merc Coallition IGA, alliances. Certain alliance(s) wanted high war costs to prevent masses of single corps war decing them all the time, we've sidestepped that hurdle.
Wirykomi Team Racer - COLOSSUS Championships Year 106
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Draximus Cane
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Posted - 2005.04.10 12:21:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Draximus Cane on 10/04/2005 12:22:42
Adapting to game mechanics is different to abusing game mechanics, This was a primary reason I accepted BDCI's kind offer of a home.
If I was a group of people who did things the other way around, I would be looking for a new home, as I have done in the past.
I don't believe I will ever need to find a new home.
Viva la MC
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Larno
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Posted - 2005.04.10 12:38:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Latex Mistress
Originally by: Riddari
Sorry but wouldn't the "joining/leaving" alliance be a similar "exploit" as MC has accused other corporations of other ingame alliances who have been at war, of doing?
The difference is that we're doing it in order to declare war more efficiently, Xetic did it to war dodge more efficiently.
Thanks for the concern, though.
You mean so that your other corps dodge the war. Same effect, different action.
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Latex Mistress
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Posted - 2005.04.10 12:43:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Larno
You mean so that your other corps dodge the war. Same effect, different action.
Actually, I said what I meant. And considering how many Xetic corps dropped out (21) vs how many MC corps dropped out (0)...
Yeah, you're a real informed forum warrior. 
If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
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Seleene
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Posted - 2005.04.10 12:56:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Larno
You mean so that your other corps dodge the war. Same effect, different action.
If a corp leaves the MC IGA it will be to pursue a war, not dodge one. This is slightly different than the norm, yes?
CCP put us in this position. We are adapting. Until the game mechanic changes, this is how it is.
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T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today! |
Weebear
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Posted - 2005.04.10 12:58:00 -
[21]
So if the unthinkable happens and someone does declare war on the MC, what happens? Do they all defend that alliance? Just the ones that were in the alliance at the time? Will individual corps be allowed to leave their alliance mates to fight while they pursue other interests?
Personally I find it a bit hypocritical, but at the same time I agree it is the best thing that the MC can do taking into account the upcoming changes to the war system.
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Honor and Serve!
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Sivona
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Posted - 2005.04.10 13:12:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Sivona on 10/04/2005 13:13:20
Edited by: Sivona on 10/04/2005 13:12:49
(edited as i got the quotation wrong)
Originally by: Weebear
So if the unthinkable happens and someone does declare war on the MC, what happens? Do they all defend that alliance? Just the ones that were in the alliance at the time? Will individual corps be allowed to leave their alliance mates to fight while they pursue other interests?
Last time someone declared on us was an indirect declaration by ca who accepted a corporation at war with BDCI and Fricks. Our stance was quite clear http://bdci.killboard.net/?p=contracts_details&id=14
Since then no one has tried. To walk into a war with Fricks and BDCI proved quite costly for CA, to walk into a war on all four members would, in my opinion, be fairly brave.
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.04.10 13:22:00 -
[23]
There is no such thing as CA. Get it in yer head already.
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
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Latex Mistress
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Posted - 2005.04.10 13:24:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
There is no such thing as CA. Get it in yer head already.
She was referring to CA pre-break up (months ago). Stop being so critical.
If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.04.10 13:30:00 -
[25]
By the looks of how she written it, she's referring to the current people living in Curse. Considering you lot didnt work together yet in that little skirmish.
But hey, i cant be assed with this. Goodluck, and prepare for alot of whining once someone leaves the alliance. We've seen it before, itll happen again.
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
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Roger Dodger
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Posted - 2005.04.10 13:32:00 -
[26]
Both the merc corp leaving the MC and an alliance corp leaving an alliance benefit from leaving the alliance. It's the same thing.
I don't understand how you're differentiating that, could you please clarify?
__________________
Proud member of the SinBin Fan Club
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Julien Derida
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Posted - 2005.04.10 13:46:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Julien Derida on 10/04/2005 14:06:19
Originally by: Weebear
So if the unthinkable happens and someone does declare war on the MC, what happens? Do they all defend that alliance? Just the ones that were in the alliance at the time? Will individual corps be allowed to leave their alliance mates to fight while they pursue other interests?
Personally I find it a bit hypocritical, but at the same time I agree it is the best thing that the MC can do taking into account the upcoming changes to the war system.
The point is, we have nothing to defend. We have no soft industrial underbelly that would gain anything from avoiding wars, or which needs protecting. Anyone declaring the MC will find themselves in the same situation as one of our contract targets. I'm sure this is not a desirable situation for most.
If one of our corps is found outside the MC, then it will be because we are pursuing an individual contract. We would be unable to do this from within the IGA because of the limitation on war slots. You won't find any MC corps leaving the IGA in order to avoid a war. We live for wars :)
We are simply using the game mechanics to pursue our chosen profession to the best of our ability. The recent alliance war cost changes could be seen as a major nerf to the mercenary profession. Instead of whining about them, we are adapting.
While I see how this stance could be superficially viewed as hypocritical, I would argue that there is an undeniable difference in spirit between this situation and XETICs. In XETICs case, corps were using the ability to leave the alliance as an easy fix to the their vulneribility in empire. The corps that left XETIC had plenty of other options. They could have spent their time in 0.0. They could have organised pilots to protect their empire operations. They didn't do that. They just left the IGA. I saw this as somewhat poor form compared to the XETIC corporations like CLS who did make the effort to defend their empire operations.
Simply put:
Jumping in and out of XETIC was only a matter of convenience for most.
Jumping in and out of the MC is the only way we can pursue our profession economically.
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Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK |
Latex Mistress
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Posted - 2005.04.10 13:54:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Latex Mistress on 10/04/2005 13:59:31
[EDIT] Great post, Jules!
Originally by: Roger Dodger
I don't understand how you're differentiating that, could you please clarify?
Between Julien's, Trooper's, and Seleene's post, the matter is quite clear I think. The difference of course, is the motivation behind the act.
 On one hand you have people who leave an alliance in order to escape being targets (and in many cases, they still support the same alliance and even rejoin after the war is over as we have seen w/ Xetic).
On the other you have a group of Mercinaries who work both together and independently as required by the contract. This is in order that anyone who wants to hire a single corp (and not the entire alliance) may do so and save an isk. Obviously, not all jobs require all four MC Corps, and it's unreasonable to ask customers to pay for them.
I am not an official speaker for the MC, but I will say as an MC pilot that if an entity were to declare war against the us, you could be reasonably assured that we wouldn't war dodge. Afterall, war is what our chosen profession is.
If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
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Julien Derida
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Posted - 2005.04.10 14:03:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Julien Derida on 10/04/2005 14:05:18
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
By the looks of how she written it, she's referring to the current people living in Curse. Considering you lot didnt work together yet in that little skirmish.
BDCI and FRICK did work together at the time of that incident, and had done for many months. The incident in question actually occured only a couple of days before the collapse of the original CA IGA. The majority of the current residents of Curse had already moved on from CA by that time 
But hey, Sivona was just trying to illustrate the point that declaring an empire war against MC might be somewhat counterproductive. It wasn't meant to reflect badly on anyone.
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Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK |
Weebear
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Posted - 2005.04.10 14:18:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Latex Mistress
Edited by: Latex Mistress on 10/04/2005 13:59:31
[EDIT] Great post, Jules!
Originally by: Roger Dodger
I don't understand how you're differentiating that, could you please clarify?
Between Julien's, Trooper's, and Seleene's post, the matter is quite clear I think. The difference of course, is the motivation behind the act.
Got it, so as long as the motivation behind an act is to pursue PvP, it is OK to use game mechanics any way you want, but if it is for anything else, your alliance should be publicly flamed to hell and back for it.
What is your stance towards 2 man alt corps?
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Honor and Serve!
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