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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2005.04.10 07:18:00 -
[1]
What prompted the change, guys? From what I'd read on the forums lately, you seemed quite set against the whole idea but now I see you're part of an IGA.
Is the upcoming patch adding something to the game which prompted this also?
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Neslo
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Posted - 2005.04.10 07:26:00 -
[2]
Well I'd guess it's a matter of economics.
It's cheaper to declare war on corporations / allianes.
Instead of 4-5 seperate war declarations, they just declare once and pay a one time 50 fee (times whatever other wars have been declared) instead of 50 for the first corp 100 for the second MC corp, 150 for the third MC corp, 200 for the 4th one and so on...
I'm just guessing that they didn't want to have to fork over a minimuim of 500 mil (base) for every war they fought per week... much cheaper to just make it under 50-100 mil isk on the people they can contract on...
I'm just guessing though...
Neslo
From Ashes to Ashes... From Dust to Dust....
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magickangaroo
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Posted - 2005.04.10 07:39:00 -
[3]
Edited by: magickangaroo on 10/04/2005 07:43:56
if im wrong im wrong but i would have thought that seein as they are still available to hire as individual corps the primary reason would be if one of the corps took a contract the others wouldnt have an empire war they wouldnt get paid for.
mgk
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Seleene
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Posted - 2005.04.10 08:08:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Seleene on 10/04/2005 08:08:55
Was wondering when this would come up.... 
The MC IGA has been formed in response to the laws soon to be passed by CONCORD regarding war declaration costs, etc... The members of the IGA are free to come and go as they please should they recieve a job offer that requires them to do solo work. The MC IGA is seen by us as a "home" that we all shall reside in while not employed or when employed jointly.
While we did not want to do this, it is my/our hope after conversations with some of the GMs and Devs that eventually CCP will implement a scaled down alliance system that recognizes the mercenary profession and at that time we can convert over to that. Some of the many suggestions I have heard are that members of a 'mercenary' alliance would not be allowed to errect a POS or ever claim territory.
In short, we have done this because we are determined to make our profession work. We will continue to adapt to the game mechanics and use whatever means necessary to play our chosen role within the game.
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T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today! |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2005.04.10 08:19:00 -
[5]
Seleene,
Sounds like a good idea about making customized alliance systems that tailor to a specific style of gameplay. Perhaps it could be taken further and a difference can be made between 0.0 Alliances and Empire Alliances with different rules that are designed to give different benefits and rewards which relate to the money-making ability of the alliances etc.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Nebba Kenezzer
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Posted - 2005.04.10 08:26:00 -
[6]
I didn't think the word "Coalition" could be overused so much.
Anti-Semitism in the Arab Media |
Seleene
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Posted - 2005.04.10 08:28:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Seleene,
Sounds like a good idea about making customized alliance systems that tailor to a specific style of gameplay. Perhaps it could be taken further and a difference can be made between 0.0 Alliances and Empire Alliances with different rules that are designed to give different benefits and rewards which relate to the money-making ability of the alliances etc.
Exactly, Josh. There is a lot of stuff on the table at CCP and there is no reason that the alliance system cannot be altered to account for just the things you said. It would certianly be easier than trying to come up with something new completely from scratch. 
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T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today! |
Trooper B99
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Posted - 2005.04.10 08:51:00 -
[8]
/me likes his new tag
As sel says, when you look at it, it doesn't actually change anything about the way the MC work.
As has been demonstrated before, it's not hard for corporations to leave an IGA to do their own thing, and it's not hard to rejoin. End of the day, it's the cheapest most efficient way to war alliances post patch, ergo, the MC is doing it.
Adaptation is a wonderful thing. 
Wirykomi Team Racer - COLOSSUS Championships Year 106
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Righteous Fury
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Posted - 2005.04.10 08:52:00 -
[9]
So that'll be...
Domain, Lonetrek, Genesis, Essence, et al to MC? 
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Nina Mires
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Posted - 2005.04.10 09:01:00 -
[10]
Nah all of empire 
Nina
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Seleene
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Posted - 2005.04.10 09:22:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Righteous Fury
So that'll be...
Domain, Lonetrek, Genesis, Essence, et al to MC?
Nah, but I've always wondered why there isn't a permanent "warzone" stamped on Empire anyway...
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T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today! |
Draximus Cane
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Posted - 2005.04.10 11:43:00 -
[12]
Yay Im in somithing I said i never would be!
\0/
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Sivona
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Posted - 2005.04.10 11:48:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Draximus Cane
Yay Im in somithing I said i never would be!
\0/
Seleene's new sex toy?
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Riddari
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Posted - 2005.04.10 12:01:00 -
[14]
Sorry but wouldn't the "joining/leaving" alliance be a similar "exploit" as MC has accused other corporations of other ingame alliances who have been at war, of doing?
¼©¼
a history |
Latex Mistress
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Posted - 2005.04.10 12:10:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Riddari
Sorry but wouldn't the "joining/leaving" alliance be a similar "exploit" as MC has accused other corporations of other ingame alliances who have been at war, of doing?
The difference is that we're doing it in order to declare war more efficiently, Xetic did it to war dodge more efficiently.
Thanks for the concern, though. 
If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
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Trooper B99
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Posted - 2005.04.10 12:13:00 -
[16]
Well, the beef the MC corps had and posted about over the last wee while was corps leaving the IGA specifically to avoid being war targets in empire.
When there are individual contracts between the members of the MC, they leave to declare the war. Clients don't always want to use all 4 corps to declare wars, to force them to do so is frankly stupid and cuts down on business.
The MC adapts to give our clients best value for money killing, be it individual corporations or in the case of the Merc Coallition IGA, alliances. Certain alliance(s) wanted high war costs to prevent masses of single corps war decing them all the time, we've sidestepped that hurdle.
Wirykomi Team Racer - COLOSSUS Championships Year 106
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Draximus Cane
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Posted - 2005.04.10 12:21:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Draximus Cane on 10/04/2005 12:22:42
Adapting to game mechanics is different to abusing game mechanics, This was a primary reason I accepted BDCI's kind offer of a home.
If I was a group of people who did things the other way around, I would be looking for a new home, as I have done in the past.
I don't believe I will ever need to find a new home.
Viva la MC
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Larno
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Posted - 2005.04.10 12:38:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Latex Mistress
Originally by: Riddari
Sorry but wouldn't the "joining/leaving" alliance be a similar "exploit" as MC has accused other corporations of other ingame alliances who have been at war, of doing?
The difference is that we're doing it in order to declare war more efficiently, Xetic did it to war dodge more efficiently.
Thanks for the concern, though.
You mean so that your other corps dodge the war. Same effect, different action.
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Latex Mistress
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Posted - 2005.04.10 12:43:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Larno
You mean so that your other corps dodge the war. Same effect, different action.
Actually, I said what I meant. And considering how many Xetic corps dropped out (21) vs how many MC corps dropped out (0)...
Yeah, you're a real informed forum warrior. 
If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
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Seleene
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Posted - 2005.04.10 12:56:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Larno
You mean so that your other corps dodge the war. Same effect, different action.
If a corp leaves the MC IGA it will be to pursue a war, not dodge one. This is slightly different than the norm, yes?
CCP put us in this position. We are adapting. Until the game mechanic changes, this is how it is.
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T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today! |
Weebear
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Posted - 2005.04.10 12:58:00 -
[21]
So if the unthinkable happens and someone does declare war on the MC, what happens? Do they all defend that alliance? Just the ones that were in the alliance at the time? Will individual corps be allowed to leave their alliance mates to fight while they pursue other interests?
Personally I find it a bit hypocritical, but at the same time I agree it is the best thing that the MC can do taking into account the upcoming changes to the war system.
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Honor and Serve!
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Sivona
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Posted - 2005.04.10 13:12:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Sivona on 10/04/2005 13:13:20
Edited by: Sivona on 10/04/2005 13:12:49
(edited as i got the quotation wrong)
Originally by: Weebear
So if the unthinkable happens and someone does declare war on the MC, what happens? Do they all defend that alliance? Just the ones that were in the alliance at the time? Will individual corps be allowed to leave their alliance mates to fight while they pursue other interests?
Last time someone declared on us was an indirect declaration by ca who accepted a corporation at war with BDCI and Fricks. Our stance was quite clear http://bdci.killboard.net/?p=contracts_details&id=14
Since then no one has tried. To walk into a war with Fricks and BDCI proved quite costly for CA, to walk into a war on all four members would, in my opinion, be fairly brave.
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.04.10 13:22:00 -
[23]
There is no such thing as CA. Get it in yer head already.
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
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Latex Mistress
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Posted - 2005.04.10 13:24:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
There is no such thing as CA. Get it in yer head already.
She was referring to CA pre-break up (months ago). Stop being so critical.
If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.04.10 13:30:00 -
[25]
By the looks of how she written it, she's referring to the current people living in Curse. Considering you lot didnt work together yet in that little skirmish.
But hey, i cant be assed with this. Goodluck, and prepare for alot of whining once someone leaves the alliance. We've seen it before, itll happen again.
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
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Roger Dodger
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Posted - 2005.04.10 13:32:00 -
[26]
Both the merc corp leaving the MC and an alliance corp leaving an alliance benefit from leaving the alliance. It's the same thing.
I don't understand how you're differentiating that, could you please clarify?
__________________
Proud member of the SinBin Fan Club
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Julien Derida
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Posted - 2005.04.10 13:46:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Julien Derida on 10/04/2005 14:06:19
Originally by: Weebear
So if the unthinkable happens and someone does declare war on the MC, what happens? Do they all defend that alliance? Just the ones that were in the alliance at the time? Will individual corps be allowed to leave their alliance mates to fight while they pursue other interests?
Personally I find it a bit hypocritical, but at the same time I agree it is the best thing that the MC can do taking into account the upcoming changes to the war system.
The point is, we have nothing to defend. We have no soft industrial underbelly that would gain anything from avoiding wars, or which needs protecting. Anyone declaring the MC will find themselves in the same situation as one of our contract targets. I'm sure this is not a desirable situation for most.
If one of our corps is found outside the MC, then it will be because we are pursuing an individual contract. We would be unable to do this from within the IGA because of the limitation on war slots. You won't find any MC corps leaving the IGA in order to avoid a war. We live for wars :)
We are simply using the game mechanics to pursue our chosen profession to the best of our ability. The recent alliance war cost changes could be seen as a major nerf to the mercenary profession. Instead of whining about them, we are adapting.
While I see how this stance could be superficially viewed as hypocritical, I would argue that there is an undeniable difference in spirit between this situation and XETICs. In XETICs case, corps were using the ability to leave the alliance as an easy fix to the their vulneribility in empire. The corps that left XETIC had plenty of other options. They could have spent their time in 0.0. They could have organised pilots to protect their empire operations. They didn't do that. They just left the IGA. I saw this as somewhat poor form compared to the XETIC corporations like CLS who did make the effort to defend their empire operations.
Simply put:
Jumping in and out of XETIC was only a matter of convenience for most.
Jumping in and out of the MC is the only way we can pursue our profession economically.
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Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK |
Latex Mistress
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Posted - 2005.04.10 13:54:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Latex Mistress on 10/04/2005 13:59:31
[EDIT] Great post, Jules!
Originally by: Roger Dodger
I don't understand how you're differentiating that, could you please clarify?
Between Julien's, Trooper's, and Seleene's post, the matter is quite clear I think. The difference of course, is the motivation behind the act.
 On one hand you have people who leave an alliance in order to escape being targets (and in many cases, they still support the same alliance and even rejoin after the war is over as we have seen w/ Xetic).
On the other you have a group of Mercinaries who work both together and independently as required by the contract. This is in order that anyone who wants to hire a single corp (and not the entire alliance) may do so and save an isk. Obviously, not all jobs require all four MC Corps, and it's unreasonable to ask customers to pay for them.
I am not an official speaker for the MC, but I will say as an MC pilot that if an entity were to declare war against the us, you could be reasonably assured that we wouldn't war dodge. Afterall, war is what our chosen profession is.
If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
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Julien Derida
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Posted - 2005.04.10 14:03:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Julien Derida on 10/04/2005 14:05:18
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
By the looks of how she written it, she's referring to the current people living in Curse. Considering you lot didnt work together yet in that little skirmish.
BDCI and FRICK did work together at the time of that incident, and had done for many months. The incident in question actually occured only a couple of days before the collapse of the original CA IGA. The majority of the current residents of Curse had already moved on from CA by that time 
But hey, Sivona was just trying to illustrate the point that declaring an empire war against MC might be somewhat counterproductive. It wasn't meant to reflect badly on anyone.
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Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK |
Weebear
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Posted - 2005.04.10 14:18:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Latex Mistress
Edited by: Latex Mistress on 10/04/2005 13:59:31
[EDIT] Great post, Jules!
Originally by: Roger Dodger
I don't understand how you're differentiating that, could you please clarify?
Between Julien's, Trooper's, and Seleene's post, the matter is quite clear I think. The difference of course, is the motivation behind the act.
Got it, so as long as the motivation behind an act is to pursue PvP, it is OK to use game mechanics any way you want, but if it is for anything else, your alliance should be publicly flamed to hell and back for it.
What is your stance towards 2 man alt corps?
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Honor and Serve!
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2005.04.10 14:38:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Julien Derida
Edited by: Julien Derida on 10/04/2005 14:06:19
Originally by: Weebear
So if the unthinkable happens and someone does declare war on the MC, what happens? Do they all defend that alliance? Just the ones that were in the alliance at the time? Will individual corps be allowed to leave their alliance mates to fight while they pursue other interests?
Personally I find it a bit hypocritical, but at the same time I agree it is the best thing that the MC can do taking into account the upcoming changes to the war system.
The point is, we have nothing to defend. We have no soft industrial underbelly that would gain anything from avoiding wars, or which needs protecting. Anyone declaring the MC will find themselves in the same situation as one of our contract targets. I'm sure this is not a desirable situation for most.
If one of our corps is found outside the MC, then it will be because we are pursuing an individual contract. We would be unable to do this from within the IGA because of the limitation on war slots. You won't find any MC corps leaving the IGA in order to avoid a war. We live for wars :)
We are simply using the game mechanics to pursue our chosen profession to the best of our ability. The recent alliance war cost changes could be seen as a major nerf to the mercenary profession. Instead of whining about them, we are adapting.
While I see how this stance could be superficially viewed as hypocritical, I would argue that there is an undeniable difference in spirit between this situation and XETICs. In XETICs case, corps were using the ability to leave the alliance as an easy fix to the their vulneribility in empire. The corps that left XETIC had plenty of other options. They could have spent their time in 0.0. They could have organised pilots to protect their empire operations. They didn't do that. They just left the IGA. I saw this as somewhat poor form compared to the XETIC corporations like CLS who did make the effort to defend their empire operations.
Simply put:
Jumping in and out of XETIC was only a matter of convenience for most.
Jumping in and out of the MC is the only way we can pursue our profession economically.
Industrial corporations leaving XF during wartime did so in order to strengthen our PVP'ing ability by giving us an untroubled access to haulers, constructions, and ship transports which are all highly important for logistics and supply.
Jumping in and out of XF was a matter of logistics and was the only way the industrial corp. members could help us economically.
So you see, words can be twisted to suit all situations
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Latex Mistress
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Posted - 2005.04.10 14:43:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Weebear
Got it, so as long as the motivation behind an act is to pursue PvP, it is OK to use game mechanics any way you want, but if it is for anything else, your alliance should be publicly flamed to hell and back for it.
/me sighs
If you're going to continue to dodge the issue, then don't bother posting at all. Here, I'll use your own sentance in the proper context in order to get it through to you: So long as the motivation behind an act is not cowardly, it's ok to use game mechanics in the way they were meant to be. But if it is for a cowardly act, your alliance gets what it has coming to them by people who look down on cowardly acts.
Besides, I don't know what you're on about - CLS is one of the few corps in Xetic that did put up a fight (such as they were). I have respect for the corps that left Xetic and no longer continued operations supporting that alliance. I have none for the corps who left on day one, yet rejoined as soon as the war was over, and smacked up the forums as they saw fit...
Originally by: Weebear
What is your stance towards 2 man alt corps?
The same as X... an alliance... telling their people to inflate their corp numbers by incorporating them (2-man alt corps) in order to inflate war costs and C** corps telling their people to use alt-haulers for their functions, and having more alts in space than pilots at any given moment, and....
It's a PvP game you know. Doing everything possible in order to get away from it kinda defeats the purpose. I submit WoW as a better choice in that case.
If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
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Seleene
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Posted - 2005.04.10 14:49:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Weebear
Got it, so as long as the motivation behind an act is to pursue PvP, it is OK to use game mechanics any way you want, but if it is for anything else, your alliance should be publicly flamed to hell and back for it.
Example - If you wish to publicly flame say... FRICK and TC for leaving the MC IGA to go to war with XETIC again while BDCI and NSN remain in the IGA to pursue a war against FoE, then be my guest. You can attempt to confuse the issue all you want, but there is a solid difference between:
"We are getting our asses kicked, pal! Game over, man! Game over!! We're out of this!"
and
"Guys, we've gotta go kick somebody's ass without you for a couple weeks. We'll try to bring back some goot loot!"
One is due to cowardice, lack of backbone or integrity. The other is not.
Quote:
What is your stance towards 2 man alt corps?
If ten of them declare on us tommorow, it won't bother me in the slightest, especially if they want to pay the "new and improved" war fees. Everyone in the MC is a warrior first. We improvise. We adapt. We overcome. (Gotta love that movie...) While CCP addresses the many flaws in the current game mechanic and until the next generation alliance system evolves, we will make due with what we have.
In the meantime, I don't think it will be an issue anytime soon. There seems to be a lot of outside interest in keeping our four corps working together for the immediate future. 
Josh, your last post is argumenative in the extreme. The MC is possibly the only IGA formed to date that has no territorial or political affiliations or ramifications. We exist only because the game mechanic has not been created that will allow us to fill our role in the game as we see fit. Once that game mechanic exists, we will jump into it immediately, accepting all of the pros and cons therein. I can't put it any simpler.
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T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today! |
Leno
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Posted - 2005.04.10 14:53:00 -
[34]
The way I see it, despite the obvious reasoning behind it is this:
XF did it and got away with it. So therfore why can't they leave and rejoin the alliance. It has never been against the rules for someone to join a corp for a war then leave when it ends.
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RIP - Smoske, My Friend
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Julien Derida
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Posted - 2005.04.10 14:58:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Julien Derida on 10/04/2005 15:04:32
Originally by: Weebear
Got it, so as long as the motivation behind an act is to pursue PvP, it is OK to use game mechanics any way you want, but if it is for anything else, your alliance should be publicly flamed to hell and back for it.
What is your stance towards 2 man alt corps?
No, it's OK as long as you are not using the mechanics to bypass a more appropriate 'in-character' response.
Leaving an alliance to avoid a war is the equivalent of logging during combat to save your ship. It is using a metagaming method to save yourself because you can't be bothered to put the in-game effort in.
An alliance corp can defend its operations in empire, or simply move them somewhere where they won't be found. It isn't rocket science. Latex even made an excellent post telling corps how to achieve this if they didn't already know. Many XETIC corps took this path, and I respect them for that. Unfortunately, many others didn't.
As for 2 man alt corps.... I really have no opinion on them. I've not seen one inflict any appreciable amount of damage to anyone. Are they really worth worrying about?
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Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK |
Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.04.10 15:00:00 -
[36]
Something else though. You guys claim you have no industrial underbelly and all that. Yet you produce atleast 4 of the Heavy Assault Cruisers, and mostlikely alot more. So these are produced by yourself.
So, either you do have an industrial underbelly which could be harmed, or, *drumroll* this is done by an altcorp not part of the Coalition.
Care to enlighten me?
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
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Julien Derida
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Posted - 2005.04.10 15:04:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Jumping in and out of XF was a matter of logistics and was the only way the industrial corp. members could help us economically.
No, those logistics could have still been performed within the IGA. All that was needed was some escorts and a bit of thought about the time of day you were going to conduct these operations. There was an alternative to leaving the IGA.
Seriously, I'm not twisting words here. Can you come up with a way for all 4 MC corporations to pursue individual contracts simultaneously while all being in the IGA?
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Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK |
Julien Derida
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Posted - 2005.04.10 15:09:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Julien Derida on 10/04/2005 15:11:21
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Something else though. You guys claim you have no industrial underbelly and all that. Yet you produce atleast 4 of the Heavy Assault Cruisers, and mostlikely alot more. So these are produced by yourself.
So, either you do have an industrial underbelly which could be harmed, or, *drumroll* this is done by an altcorp not part of the Coalition.
Care to enlighten me?
I can only speak for FRICK, here. We simply buy minerals and buy components. Production itself is not a soft target as it can be done entirely inside a station, it is the gathering of resources that provides the soft target. We don't gather resources and hence we don't have a soft underbelly.
We would probably be richer if we mined, agent *****d and ran a PoS ourselves, but we don't want to. Money is overrated.
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Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK |
Latex Mistress
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Posted - 2005.04.10 15:13:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Leno
So therfore why can't they leave and rejoin the alliance.
For the same reason why pilots can't leave a war dec'd corp for an NPC corp and rejoin after the war is over? Maybe because it removes the need for skills, good fittings, good tactics, and good piloting, replacing it with "hey, let's just hide here until they get bored and leave"? Maybe because it's a PvP game, and doing everything you can in order to avoid it is lame? Might as well just delete your character for as much fun as that would be.
Yeah, brilliant tactic there.
@Elve: we've changed our stance a bit after the Xetic contract... We now have Seleene Jules, and Ith in a race to see who can get a faction BS first without buying it.
I'm betting on Josh Calvert! er... 
If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
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Sheriff Justice
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Posted - 2005.04.10 15:17:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Something else though. You guys claim you have no industrial underbelly and all that. Yet you produce atleast 4 of the Heavy Assault Cruisers, and mostlikely alot more. So these are produced by yourself.
So, either you do have an industrial underbelly which could be harmed, or, *drumroll* this is done by an altcorp not part of the Coalition.
Care to enlighten me?
Quick, quick! War dec BDCI's buy orders!!
SJ
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.04.10 15:23:00 -
[41]
You have trouble answering an honest question with a proper answer i see.
Thanks for the FRICK guy for atleast being serious.
So did i hit a nerve?
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
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Weebear
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Posted - 2005.04.10 15:25:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Julien Derida
Seriously, I'm not twisting words here. Can you come up with a way for all 4 MC corporations to pursue individual contracts simultaneously while all being in the IGA?
Nope! Look to CCP for that, I agree that at this moment in time the IGA is the best way for you to work but it does open up a whole load of what ifs for you if any other of the so called PvP corps/alliances in game decide to declare war on your alliance or an individual corp who left the alliance.
I know Seleene will have looked into all possibilities before making any decision. From a role-playing perspective, I would have thought it better to remain seperate and pass the cost on to the customer, but obviously there is no way this would ever work and you would be doing yourself out a job.
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Honor and Serve!
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Agent Kenshin
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Posted - 2005.04.10 15:27:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Sheriff Justice
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Something else though. You guys claim you have no industrial underbelly and all that. Yet you produce atleast 4 of the Heavy Assault Cruisers, and mostlikely alot more. So these are produced by yourself.
So, either you do have an industrial underbelly which could be harmed, or, *drumroll* this is done by an altcorp not part of the Coalition.
Care to enlighten me?
Quick, quick! War dec BDCI's buy orders!!
SJ
OMG not our buy orders... You'll crush us all... 
Originally by: MAXSuicide
only carebears call pvpers 'greifers'
ehehehh....
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Trooper B99
|
Posted - 2005.04.10 15:49:00 -
[44]
I think the best way to consider the MC industrial side is thus: We continually make all of our (wide variety of) Tech II stuff and all players are still out killing our targets when on contract. Would this be possible if we had our people mining/agent running/etc all the time? No, it wouldn't be.
As Julien says, highly priced buy orders can net nearly everything you need for tech II production without you ever having to leave a station and factorys run themselves.
Anyways, i think this topic can be summed up thus:
Yes, the MC now has an IGA.
Yes, we adapt as the game changes.
Yes, we will leave it as our contracts require.
Yes, we will *still* give great value for money service
Yes, we will continue to fight alliances despite war system changes.
Yes, we are in fact out to kill you.
Yes, we will fight/contract for anyone who pays us.
We are the Mercenary Coallition. We are a ravening scourge in empires "safe space".
Targets beware.
!Thank you for using the Mercenary Coallition!
!Please come again!
Wirykomi Team Racer - COLOSSUS Championships Year 106
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Draximus Cane
|
Posted - 2005.04.10 15:52:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Draximus Cane on 10/04/2005 15:52:27
arrrgrh Troop you missed:
Yes, we still make kick ass sandwitches!
-------------------------------------------------
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Latex Mistress
|
Posted - 2005.04.10 15:54:00 -
[46]
I think Trooper has the final word from BDCI here - just about everybody's question has been answered. See everyone in space (even if it's from a Cov Ops).
If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
|
Artharas
|
Posted - 2005.04.10 16:02:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Artharas on 10/04/2005 16:03:51
Originally by: Latex Mistress
It's a PvP game you know. Doing everything possible in order to get away from it kinda defeats the purpose. I submit WoW as a better choice in that case.
This is the attitude I HATE from PvPers. I am mostly a PvPer, but what I find great about this game is not the PvP but the fact this game is whatever you like to do. this game is NOT a PvP game unless you like PvP(and when your corp/alliance is in dier[sp?] need)
Sometimes I find PvPers are WAY to arrogance to the "carebears" because the PvPers playstyle is *so much* more uber, fun and right then the "carebear" playstyle.
-------------------------
These are my views and don't necessarily represent my corp nor my alliance. |
Wuubaa
|
Posted - 2005.04.10 16:03:00 -
[48]
YAY now we dont av to pay 5000000000000000000000000mil if we war dec the same alliance as MC
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Valeriya
|
Posted - 2005.04.10 16:07:00 -
[49]
/me looks at her new IGA tag.
Oh cool! When did you sneak this in Sel? Kinda like a new and improved MC... With fresh lemon scent!
-
Stop on by and ask about our low insurance rates. |
Julien Derida
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Posted - 2005.04.10 16:16:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Artharas
This is the attitude I HATE from PvPers. I am mostly a PvPer, but what I find great about this game is not the PvP but the fact this game is whatever you like to do. this game is NOT a PvP game unless you like PvP(and when your corp/alliance is in dier[sp?] need)
Sometimes I find PvPers are WAY to arrogance to the "carebears" because the PvPers playstyle is *so much* more uber, fun and right then the "carebear" playstyle.
Thats a bit rich coming from a guy who griefed a perfectly innocent Sharks Indy fight before the XETIC war by deliberately running into peoples smartbombs to get them concordokkened. 
----------------------------------------
Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK |
Valeriya
|
Posted - 2005.04.10 16:19:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Artharas
Sometimes I find PvPers are WAY to arrogance to the "carebears" because the PvPers playstyle is *so much* more uber, fun and right then the "carebear" playstyle.
Well, BDCI plays both sides of the fence equally. So we understand the value industrialists play. When between contracts Seleene goes into full carebear mode. I mean, you mention the word Ferrogel or Isogen and she starts drooling and yelling on TS "KEEEL T3H ROIDS!!!111one"
It's like night and day with her really...
-
Stop on by and ask about our low insurance rates. |
Seleene
|
Posted - 2005.04.10 16:30:00 -
[52]
I am really amazed that this thread has gone this far. Let me repeat something I said earlier for those who might have missed it:
The MC is possibly the only IGA formed to date that has no territorial or political affiliations or ramifications. We exist only because the game mechanic has not been created that will allow us to fill our role in the game as we see fit. Once that game mechanic exists, we will jump into it immediately, accepting all of the pros and cons therein.
While we have friends, we have no allies or NAPs.
While there are those we respect, we have no fear of anyone. Bring it if you wish.
While our work takes us everywhere, we have no cares about who owns what regions.
While one is obviously better than the other, we have no idea why people like Pepsi more than Coke.
Josh asked a question and I gave a very simple answer. I find it amazing that anyone finds this the least bit complicated. Here's an idea - why not save all of the speculation et al until you actually see an MC corp leave the IGA. All my current information says that won't happen anytime soon regardless.
-
T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today! |
Leafo
|
Posted - 2005.04.10 16:40:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Leafo on 10/04/2005 16:40:18
OMG people!! Why the need to throw pies at eachother?! Geez!
From where did this alliance-jump-in-and-out-question come from? This is not about that. This is not about difference between PvP and industrial corporations, everyone plays EVE in their own way.
This is about CCP changing the game in a way that it makes it harder (or impossible) for us (the MC) to play EVE the way we want to - as mercenaries.
The only reason for us to start this IGA is to ensure that we can still carry on playing the game as we wish, even though many people seem to try and stop that way of playing at all cost.
As mercenaries in this game we now have to do the same thing as mercenaries has been forced to do many times before - adapt to new game mechanics.
The issue you all discuss so furiously is not an issue. You are already speculating that MC corporations will leave when/if they get war declared on them. Let it go, we will see if that times come.
If you see MC corporations temporarily leaving the IGA in order to still be able to take individual contracts as a problem, declare on the corp. It's much cheaper than declaring the alliance.
The IGA only exists for us to be able to play the game as we want to even though it is hard with changes that counteract our style of play all the time. You see us whining? No, you see us adapting!
See you in space.
click on sig for all my videos
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Draximus Cane
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Posted - 2005.04.10 16:45:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Leafo
You see us whining? No, you see us adapting!
Then making a sandwitch.... Err Video for all of eve to enjoy :)
-------------------------------------------------
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Roger Dodger
|
Posted - 2005.04.10 16:49:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Roger Dodger on 10/04/2005 16:50:21
No offense, but if you expect CCP to make sweeping game mechanics changes to better suit the gameplay needs of 4 corps which comprise less than 0.5% of EVE's population, you've lost your minds.
__________________
Proud member of the SinBin Fan Club
|
Seleene
|
Posted - 2005.04.10 16:52:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Seleene on 10/04/2005 16:55:03
Originally by: Roger Dodger
No offense, but if you expect CCP to change game mechanics to better suit the gameplay needs of 4 corps which comprise less than 1% of EVE's population, you've lost your minds.
We are not the only ones knocking down CCP's door to fulfill a promise they made nearly two years ago. The bounty hunting system does not exist. The Merc profession is possible only by using a mechanic not designed for it and adapting it.
As to my mental state, it's quite stable considering I've actually spoken to CCP on this issue and been assured that changes are indeed in the works.
No offense taken.
-
T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today! |
Julien Derida
|
Posted - 2005.04.10 16:53:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Julien Derida on 10/04/2005 16:54:07
Originally by: Roger Dodger
Edited by: Roger Dodger on 10/04/2005 16:50:21
No offense, but if you expect CCP to make sweeping game mechanics changes to better suit the gameplay needs of 4 corps which comprise less than 0.5% of EVE's population, you've lost your minds.
Which is why you haven't seen us starting 20 page whining threads about this war change . We know we're not going to get any major help from CCP, so we just make the best of things.
----------------------------------------
Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK |
Lowa
|
Posted - 2005.04.10 16:54:00 -
[58]
WÍRD!
/LOWA
Oh! Yeah! Huh! MC - Going funky all over your clone baby! |
Latex Mistress
|
Posted - 2005.04.10 16:57:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Lowa
WÍRD!
CL_-?
If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
|
Roger Dodger
|
Posted - 2005.04.10 16:57:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Seleene
Edited by: Seleene on 10/04/2005 16:55:03
Originally by: Roger Dodger
No offense, but if you expect CCP to change game mechanics to better suit the gameplay needs of 4 corps which comprise less than 1% of EVE's population, you've lost your minds.
We are not the only ones knocking down CCP's door to fulfill a promise they made nearly two years ago. The bounty hunting system does not exist. The Merc profession is possible only by using a mechanic not designed for it and adapting it.
As to my mental state, it's quite stable considering I've actually spoken to CCP on this issue and been assured that changes are indeed in the works.
No offense taken.
We're talking about the same CCP who said Titans would be out in 2004.
I'll believe it when I see it.
__________________
Proud member of the SinBin Fan Club
|
Generatorn
|
Posted - 2005.04.10 17:07:00 -
[61]
wow this is amazing we are famous \o/
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Draximus Cane
|
Posted - 2005.04.10 17:08:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Roger Dodger
Originally by: Seleene
Edited by: Seleene on 10/04/2005 16:55:03
Originally by: Roger Dodger
No offense, but if you expect CCP to change game mechanics to better suit the gameplay needs of 4 corps which comprise less than 1% of EVE's population, you've lost your minds.
We are not the only ones knocking down CCP's door to fulfill a promise they made nearly two years ago. The bounty hunting system does not exist. The Merc profession is possible only by using a mechanic not designed for it and adapting it.
As to my mental state, it's quite stable considering I've actually spoken to CCP on this issue and been assured that changes are indeed in the works.
No offense taken.
We're talking about the same CCP who said Titans would be out in 2004.
I'll believe it when I see it.
well untill then we will use what is available, and continue to whor.... er hire ourselves out
-------------------------------------------------
|
Artharas
|
Posted - 2005.04.10 17:16:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Julien Derida
Originally by: Artharas
This is the attitude I HATE from PvPers. I am mostly a PvPer, but what I find great about this game is not the PvP but the fact this game is whatever you like to do. this game is NOT a PvP game unless you like PvP(and when your corp/alliance is in dier[sp?] need)
Sometimes I find PvPers are WAY to arrogance to the "carebears" because the PvPers playstyle is *so much* more uber, fun and right then the "carebear" playstyle.
Thats a bit rich coming from a guy who griefed a perfectly innocent Sharks Indy fight before the XETIC war by deliberately running into peoples smartbombs to get them concordokkened.
Me no no I was just saying hello to ya guys before hell was brough loose and the guy felt the need to smartbomb me
-------------------------
These are my views and don't necessarily represent my corp nor my alliance. |
Akaviri
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Posted - 2005.04.10 17:29:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Seleene
While one is obviously better than the other, we have no idea why people like Pepsi more than Coke.
That one baffles me as well. How could anyone like Pepsi more than Coke? Good luck with your alliance and make more vids.
````````````` _ |\_
````````````` \` oo\
````````_____/ =__Y=
`````` /` `````` )
`_``` / ` , ``` \/\_.(\_/)
((____| `` )_--\ \_-`(x.x)
`------'`------` `--` (> <) Kitty pwns Bunny! |
Foyle
|
Posted - 2005.04.10 17:32:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Foyle on 10/04/2005 17:32:26
Chocolate chip or Oreo?
Congrats on the IGA.
Eternally yours, MuthaTrucka
|
OrbitalEffect
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Posted - 2005.04.10 17:43:00 -
[66]
Interesting posts. There are two separate view points going on here and they both revolve around the same badly beaten bush - why do people play Eve. Some corps want to mine spinning rocks all day and chat with their mates. Other corps want to see red on their overview and hear the locking sound. If either leaves an IGA to do so, is that a good thing or a bad thing?
Game Mechanics Viewpoint:
Is that a good thing or a bad thing in game terms? I think it's a good thing. When players get to do what they enjoy, it's good for the game.
Societal Values Viewpoint:
Is that a good thing or a bad thing in societal terms? This is when you can get into a real quagmire. Running from an aggressor is generally viewed as cowardly, but avoiding war and perserving peace is I think universally accepted as a good thing. But then where would Eve be without conflict? The arguement is endless...
Where does CCP stand on all this? I don't think it matters. They provide the game mechanics. We players work within them.
Personally, I think IGAs only serve to complicate with little or no return on enjoyability. Just my thoughts as a player of Eve.
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MuthaTrucka
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Posted - 2005.04.10 17:56:00 -
[67]
Personally the Whole thing is about perception.
And I don't care. Much like the silly war system that allows you to redeclare war 24 hours after it is over. Bouncing around in and out of a IGA should be Fixed. In both circumstances a Timer should be in effect.Hell Add leaving a Corp too with a Timer.
a week is good for all three cases......
if you leave a IGA as a Corporation you should be unable to Join a IGa for a week and your Corp Standings towards said IGA Should be Defaulted to 0.0 for the week. It should be hardcoded.
If you leave a corporation for a noob corp with your standings towards said Corporation Hardcoded to 0.0 for the next week.
Now the war system is just silly and I have no constructive comments at this time.
Now my personal beliefs on corps that drop out of a IGA during a war, any war, is that they should be instantly put at 0.0 standings with the IGA lose any beifits that go with the IGA, and should revert to the status of Sub-contracter to the IGA. If they are that scared to be at War that sorry you don;t need to be a part of it, just fill buy order with whatever you produce. You are nothing more than a vendor, like the beer guy that brings kegs to the bar. yeah kinda important but I can always get another vendor.
---------------
Don't Call me a Carebear,
I don't really care about much at all.
---------------
[ Internally Yours foyle, MT ]
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The Ratfink
|
Posted - 2005.04.10 19:15:00 -
[68]
There are weapons of mass boredom in xetic space the coalition will find them!
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Lansfear
|
Posted - 2005.04.10 19:55:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Seleene
Originally by: Larno
You mean so that your other corps dodge the war. Same effect, different action.
If a corp leaves the MC IGA it will be to pursue a war, not dodge one. This is slightly different than the norm, yes?
CCP put us in this position. We are adapting. Until the game mechanic changes, this is how it is.
I have nothing against the MC or anyone in it.
But...
Didn't DDC recieve a crap ton of hate for doing exactly this: Leaving the IGA to declair war on local nusences?
Sorry just something that occured to me.
|
Lansfear
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Posted - 2005.04.10 19:58:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Lansfear on 10/04/2005 19:58:31
Originally by: Generatorn
wow this is amazing we are famous \o/
You are famous as being highly skilled and dedicated mercs.
<3
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Merlinar
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Posted - 2005.04.10 20:01:00 -
[71]
Yay! Recognition
|
theRaptor
|
Posted - 2005.04.10 20:11:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Artharas
Edited by: Artharas on 10/04/2005 16:03:51
Originally by: Latex Mistress
It's a PvP game you know. Doing everything possible in order to get away from it kinda defeats the purpose. I submit WoW as a better choice in that case.
This is the attitude I HATE from PvPers. I am mostly a PvPer, but what I find great about this game is not the PvP but the fact this game is whatever you like to do. this game is NOT a PvP game unless you like PvP(and when your corp/alliance is in dier[sp?] need)
Sometimes I find PvPers are WAY to arrogance to the "carebears" because the PvPers playstyle is *so much* more uber, fun and right then the "carebear" playstyle.
Unless you solo interact with NPC's (almost impossible) then you are playing a PVP game. Competing to buy/sell goods is player vs player, it just isnt sexy and lacks ships blowing up. Someone loses and someone wins. Its economic warfare.
--------------------------------------------------
|
Draximus Cane
|
Posted - 2005.04.10 20:26:00 -
[73]
Originally by: theRaptor
Originally by: Artharas
Edited by: Artharas on 10/04/2005 16:03:51
Originally by: Latex Mistress
It's a PvP game you know. Doing everything possible in order to get away from it kinda defeats the purpose. I submit WoW as a better choice in that case.
This is the attitude I HATE from PvPers. I am mostly a PvPer, but what I find great about this game is not the PvP but the fact this game is whatever you like to do. this game is NOT a PvP game unless you like PvP(and when your corp/alliance is in dier[sp?] need)
Sometimes I find PvPers are WAY to arrogance to the "carebears" because the PvPers playstyle is *so much* more uber, fun and right then the "carebear" playstyle.
Unless you solo interact with NPC's (almost impossible) then you are playing a PVP game. Competing to buy/sell goods is player vs player, it just isnt sexy and lacks ships blowing up. Someone loses and someone wins. Its economic warfare.
oh oh oh seeeeex, exactly, spot on, give that man a medal
this IS a pvp game, it just has multiple ways to achieve goals
-------------------------------------------------
|
Julien Derida
|
Posted - 2005.04.10 20:30:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Lansfear
I have nothing against the MC or anyone in it.
But...
Didn't DDC recieve a crap ton of hate for doing exactly this: Leaving the IGA to declair war on local nusences?
Sorry just something that occured to me.
They may have done, but it wasn't us flinging the crap that time .
----------------------------------------
Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK |
Seleene
|
Posted - 2005.04.10 21:05:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Julien Derida
Originally by: Lansfear
I have nothing against the MC or anyone in it.
But...
Didn't DDC recieve a crap ton of hate for doing exactly this: Leaving the IGA to declair war on local nusences?
Sorry just something that occured to me.
They may have done, but it wasn't us flinging the crap that time .
What Jules said. No, it wasn't us who said anything. I do remember it though and you know what? A poster earlier said it's all a matter of perception. I agree. If DDC left XETIC to do some "wet work", fine. For one thing, DDC didn't bail out on XETIC during the recent MC war with XETIC. In fact, along with CLS, they were out there fighting us quite a bit. At a minimum they have earned a dose of respect from me personally, and probably the MC as a whole.
Why is that important? Because a corp that pursues warfare in such a manner in defense of, or to promote the agenda of, its chosen organization (XETIC in this case) is entitled to a little slack in my eyes. Take that as you will, but it's just my personal opinion.
As for this thread, I think people are worrying about a lot of nothing to be honest. As of right now, I see no sign that anyone is going to be leaving the MC IGA any time soon.
-
T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today! |
Trooper B99
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Posted - 2005.04.10 21:25:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Seleene
As of right now, I see no sign that anyone is going to be leaving the MC IGA any time soon.
/me looks over empire, from the Yulai X DED station at all the clear bracket ships and sighs happily.
A new day, a new set hundreds of targets all waiting to turn red.
SoonÖ
Wirykomi Team Racer - COLOSSUS Championships Year 106
|
Lansfear
|
Posted - 2005.04.10 23:05:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Julien Derida
Originally by: Lansfear
I have nothing against the MC or anyone in it.
But...
Didn't DDC recieve a crap ton of hate for doing exactly this: Leaving the IGA to declair war on local nusences?
Sorry just something that occured to me.
They may have done, but it wasn't us flinging the crap that time .
No no, i didnt mean to imply MC was flinging the crap. Sorry if it came out that way.
TBH I love the fact ya'll did this. Give it a feel of the Ravens Nest from Amored Core.
|
Eleese
|
Posted - 2005.04.10 23:07:00 -
[78]
I dont see the similarities between peeps leaving alliances to avoid wars and our situation. We want to be mercs which is a proffesion listed as one of the available profession when eve was released. We want to be mercs sometimes we need some extra bodies as 1 corp isnt big enough to effectively affect day to day running. Current war system without IGA would make our work nearly impossible to get contracts due to having to charge so much.
We have to make an IGA to do joint contracts other wise we couldnt furfill our profession due to latest war patch/fix/nerf (depending who you are). We dont really have any other options available... if we could work together on large contracts effectively we wouldnt have an iga as alot if not all of us dislike alliances the way they work and the internal politics that come from it.
As far as i can remember although mercs being listed a profession within eves promotion.. they have never introduced anything for mercs and i dont mean just us 4 corps there are other mercs out there and past merc corps.
|
Gronsak
|
Posted - 2005.04.10 23:46:00 -
[79]
where¦s my sig?!?!  |
Lo3d3R
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 00:32:00 -
[80]
merc coalition ftw, now those guys are fun to play with/against
|
Leno
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 04:18:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Latex Mistress
Originally by: Leno
So therfore why can't they leave and rejoin the alliance.
For the same reason why pilots can't leave a war dec'd corp for an NPC corp and rejoin after the war is over? Maybe because it removes the need for skills, good fittings, good tactics, and good piloting, replacing it with "hey, let's just hide here until they get bored and leave"? Maybe because it's a PvP game, and doing everything you can in order to avoid it is lame? Might as well just delete your character for as much fun as that would be.
Yeah, brilliant tactic there.
I'm betting on Josh Calvert! er...
hehe, its ok i agree with you completely, just pointing out how they thought it was ok when they did it, but not for you.
---------------
RIP - Smoske, My Friend
|
Kuolematon
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 05:33:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Kuolematon on 11/04/2005 15:51:34
_______________________________________________
My opinions aren't my corporations opinions.
(\_/)
(x.x) This is what's left of Bunny, the rest tasted delicious. |
Riddari
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 08:44:00 -
[83]
To clarify why many feel that the MC are being somewhat hypocritical:
Originally by: Seleene
In short, we have done this because we are determined to make our profession work. We will continue to adapt to the game mechanics and use whatever means necessary to play our chosen role within the game.
In short, the industrial corporations left XETIC because they were determined to make their profession work. The game mechanics are flawed in allowing anyone to shoot anybody as long as they are in a player run corp. Wars should be limited to 0.4 and lower, it does not make sense that CONCORD would allow lawless space to exist as long as they got a 1m bribe a week. In 0.4 CONCORD's presence is not existent and so it makes more sense that war fees are paid and are sort of bribery.
The industrial corporations wanted to mine and produce, due to game mechanics they found it hard so they left. I see nothing different there between MC and those.
Both want to play the game their chosen way.
MC and Seleene are all out now trying to wedge a mercenary system into the game because it's their chosen playing style. There is a LOT of chosen playing styles out there currently that are seriously hampered by bad implementation and game mechanics, industrial being one of them.
If MC wish others to respect their chosen playing style, they should respect the playing style of others and not accuse them of being cowards because they don't want to play like MC thinks it should be played.
MC are very good at what they do but just like everyone else, they aren't above using game mechanics to achieve results that they feel they have the right to, and can not put themselves into the seat of a judge.
Why are CLS so vocal even if we were very active in the MC war? Because we care about ALL playing styles and see why many XETIC (and other alliances) left the IGA to try and make their playing style work.
All the "but they could have done A and B" from MC can be shrugged off because that's their suggestions from their point of view, which is clearly not the same as a lot of players have.
It's a multi-player game, not a multi-shooter.
¼©¼
a history |
Lowa
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 09:09:00 -
[84]
Hello, have anyone seen a Badger around here somewhere?
It was filled to the brim with the latest version of the newly created wonder drug:
"STFU! ALL OF YOU! SIT BACK AND SEE WHAT THE FUTURE BRINGS!(tm)"
I was about to pass it out freely to all in this thread (4p ago)but now its gone.
Aint that typical.
Let this thing die now ok, it was clear why this happened
on page one, the rest is just stupid.
Regards,
LOWA
Oh! Yeah! Huh! MC - Going funky all over your clone baby! |
meowcat
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 09:13:00 -
[85]
what a steaming sack of festering, rancid arse-leakage
~~~~)\~~~~~\o/~~~~
yeah but no but yeah but no but |
Riddari
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 09:15:00 -
[86]
Impressive replies
¼©¼
a history |
Eyeshadow
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 10:37:00 -
[87]
oh riddari the temptation to flame you is so strong. You do really speak a lot of dribble
as for the alliance, whoopdydoo. It means nothing. Personally i would rather be out of it during downtime and only join it when we need to. PERSONALLY, that is what i would want (i hate alliances but its a necessary evil with the stupid war costs coming in tmrw)
this thread is about as pointless as the alliance chat channel we have. We have always communicated and worked together anyway, all the IGA does is allow us to keep war costs down and be more value for money to our clients
The whining is amazing
Forums: Sharks - MC |
Seleene
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 11:14:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Seleene on 11/04/2005 11:23:13
EDITED - Jules excellent post below completely owns mine.
-
T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today! |
Julien Derida
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 11:20:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Riddari
The industrial corporations wanted to mine and produce, due to game mechanics they found it hard so they left. I see nothing different there between MC and those.
You have pointed out the difference yourself Riddari.
The industrial corporations found it hard to continue their operations, but there was nothing stopping them from continuing. They could have taken measures to minimise the impact of the war i.e. escorts, using out of the way systems etc...
On the other hand, game mechanics directly prevent each member of the MC from pursuing an individual contract without leaving the IGA. It is impossible to declare more than 3 wars at once, so we are essentially left with no choice.
There is a clear difference. The industrial corporation leaves the IGA out of convenience, because they find the reduction in efficiency that adapting to war would bring unacceptable. The merc corp leaves its IGA because it has no alternative.
If you think that I take this view because I just want more things to shoot, you are dead wrong. I take this view because I want Eve to work in a logical way. I want corportations to act in a way that is consistent with the virtual world. Adapting your operations to cope with a war is believable, pushing a single button to make the war go away is not.
----------------------------------------
Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK |
Riddari
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 11:30:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Julien Derida
It is impossible to declare more than 3 wars at once, so we are essentially left with no choice.
No choice? 3 contracts not enough? What sort of employer would be satisfied with you diverting your resources when you are to be solely contracted for his benefit?
YOU CREATED THE IG-ALLIANCE TO LOWER YOUR COSTS
OTHERS LEFT ALLIANCES TO LOWER THEIR COSTS
Difference?
None
¼©¼
a history |
Seleene
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 11:41:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Riddari
YOU CREATED THE IG-ALLIANCE TO LOWER YOUR COSTS
OTHERS LEFT ALLIANCES TO LOWER THEIR COSTS
Difference?
None
The MC created our IGA to simplify war costs for clients due to the next patch.
XETIC (and damn near everyone else) created thier IGA to build alliances and eventually claim territory, set up a POS network (and eventually build stargates) in 0.0, mine 0.0 ore, hunt 0.0 rats, have the protection of thier alliance-mates in 0.0 and (it is assumed) Empire, etc...
Difference?
Seems obvious.
-
T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today! |
meowcat
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 13:01:00 -
[92]
Edited by: meowcat on 11/04/2005 13:01:22
Originally by: Riddari
Originally by: Julien Derida
It is impossible to declare more than 3 wars at once, so we are essentially left with no choice.
No choice? 3 contracts not enough? ....
3 contracts isn't enough when each of the 4 member corps is employed separately on their own contracts. Some people don't want to hire the entire MC, and we can't operate separately within an IGA.
Similarly we can't operate collectively without an IGA because of the cretinous new war cost system.
~~~~)\~~~~~\o/~~~~
yeah but no but yeah but no but |
Julien Derida
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 13:05:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Julien Derida on 11/04/2005 13:05:57
Originally by: Riddari
No choice? 3 contracts not enough? What sort of employer would be satisfied with you diverting your resources when you are to be solely contracted for his benefit?
You misunderstand. We are not talking about the entire MC taking on four contracts simultaneously. We are talking about each MC corporations taking on a SEPERATE contract for a SEPERATE employer i.e.
Client A hires FRICK to kill FA
Client B hires BDCI to kill XETIC
Client C hires NSN to kill SE
Client D hires TC to kill Imperium
(The names are chosen at random )
You have to understand that clients who have the cash to hire all four corporations are few and far between. We will be spending a lot of our time working on different contracts. So no, 3 contracts is not enough when we have 4 independent corporations.
Edit: Meow beat me to it 
----------------------------------------
Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK |
Waagaa Ktlehr
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 13:05:00 -
[94]
I run missions with my main when we're not on a contract, come kill me! \o/
------------------------------------------
I am a love machine, feeding my fantasy, give me a kiss or three, have fun!
|
Riddari
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 13:08:00 -
[95]
It's not personal guys, just like it's never personal for you. You do seem to take it personally though.
It is acknowledged that the Alliance is merely a DISCOUNT COUPON should someone want to hire more than one of your corporations.
Same flip-flop of using Alliance as a conveniance as many corporations who leave Alliances (not that I personally approve of it but I understand their reasoning) during war.
¼©¼
a history |
Riddari
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 13:11:00 -
[96]
Originally by: meowcat
Similarly we can't operate collectively without an IGA because of the cretinous new war cost system.
You can, it just costs extra.
Discount Coupon!
¼©¼
a history |
Seleene
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 13:15:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Seleene on 11/04/2005 13:16:45
Originally by: Riddari
Same flip-flop of using Alliance as a conveniance as many corporations who leave Alliances (not that I personally approve of it but I understand their reasoning) during war.
Admit it, Riddari! Let it out, man! They are traitors and cowards! You're going to pod them if they look at you wrong in 0.0, aren't you?!
Originally by: Riddari
It is acknowledged that the Alliance is merely a DISCOUNT COUPON should someone want to hire more than one of your corporations.
Discount Coupon =
I won't argue with that!
Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr
I run missions with my main when we're not on a contract, come kill me! \o/
Me too! L2 Gal Fed Navy 4TW! (just started...)
/emote wants a Fed Navy Mega really bad...
EDIT - Actually, buy me this ship and I'll kill whoever you want me to with it for a month. 
-
T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today! |
Riddari
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 13:20:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Seleene
Admit it, Riddari! Let it out, man! They are traitors and cowards! You're going to pod them if they look at you wrong in 0.0, aren't you?!
I haven't the foggiest who left and who didn't. Buerocracy.
Originally by: Seleene
EDIT - Actually, buy me this ship and I'll kill whoever you want me to with it for a month.
Very nice.
Shame my wallet never reached 10% of Digitals wallet.
¼©¼
a history |
Trooper B99
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 13:54:00 -
[99]
Out of curiosity, and slightly off topic, but if all these industrial corporations will abandon the xetic IGA at the drop of a hat come any threat, why do Xetic even have an IGA in the first place? What exaclty is the point of Xetic just now? A glorified chat engine? Just dissolve the alliance and go back the way you were before. You managed well enough before.
*sighs*
It's swings and round abouts. You have an IGA to be better protected. One for all and all for one. But it seems like that part of the IGA is only for fairweather friends. Someone wants to go to war with golden oak industries (now that they're back in the alliance ) they have to go to war with all of xetic. However, somsone wants to go to war with Xetic, corps leave the IGA like rats off of a sinking ship.
Should that be in the in game news? That the Xetic alliance, recognised by CONCORD as a soverign state, cannot protect it's own corporations?
Personally i am still of the mind that any corp who leaves an IGA while at war with another corp either has to wait a week while their "removal is finalised". Outside of wars, feel free to leave/join to your hearts content. Once you are a part of an IGA, a soverign state, then you're a part for better or for worse. The more benefits the alliances, especially 0.0 alliances get, the more responsibilities they and their member corps should have as well.
Wirykomi Team Racer - COLOSSUS Championships Year 106
|
meowcat
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 14:00:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Riddari
Originally by: meowcat
Similarly we can't operate collectively without an IGA because of the cretinous new war cost system.
You can, it just costs extra.
Discount Coupon!
in the same way that a private tropical island costs a bit extra when compared to my hovel, yeah...
ps: We now offer a free toaster with every contract.
~~~~)\~~~~~\o/~~~~
yeah but no but yeah but no but |
Weebear
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 14:05:00 -
[101]
Originally by: meowcat
ps: We now offer a free toaster with every contract.
Hmmmmm tell me more about this toaster.... how many settings does it have? What do you put in a toaster?
-----------------------
Honor and Serve!
|
GFLTorque
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 14:18:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Riddari
Shame my wallet never reached 10% of Digitals wallet.
Digi has enough ISK to buy a Region. But, if he ever paid everyone back, he'd not have enough money for 1 unit of Emergency Containment field I.
4 out of 3 people have trouble with fractions
|
meowcat
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 14:18:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Weebear
What do you put in a toaster?
/me resists the urge to say 'toast'
~~~~)\~~~~~\o/~~~~
yeah but no but yeah but no but |
Lowa
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 14:58:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Weebear
Originally by: meowcat
ps: We now offer a free toaster with every contract.
Hmmmmm tell me more about this toaster.... how many settings does it have? What do you put in a toaster?
You seen that new movie about Oveur's little ship? The toaster(s) are made out of what
was left of that alloy. It wasnt enought to coat a ship with so it was desided to make it
into a bunch of toasters.
Why you ask?
Because even when your ship go *BOOM* you can rest assured that you can eat fresh toast all
the way home! (Since its installed in the ship's pod)
Also comes with the usual "standards"; timer, bun heater, force field, brushed alu-case,
noise reduction, Modal defrost (deep space is seriously cold you know) and its signed by
all members of MC. What else can you possibly ask for?
Cheers,
LOWA
Oh! Yeah! Huh! MC - Going funky all over your clone baby! |
Weebear
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 15:18:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Lowa
What else can you possibly ask for?
Not sure how many people will get this, but...
Talkie Toaster
Damn you MC and your food related topics. (Funnily enough there is a box of Celebrations on my desk, and all that is left are Topics!)
-----------------------
Honor and Serve!
|
Danks
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 16:01:00 -
[106]
Tuna on toast please. Light mayo.
|
Draximus Cane
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 16:10:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Draximus Cane on 11/04/2005 16:11:05
Well Seleene doesn't let BDCI eat or sleep during wartime, bit like the Romans not feeding the lions before setting them on helpless do gooders in sandles.
We kind of get possesive about or 'food' then
-------------------------------------------------
|
Elve Sorrow
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 17:38:00 -
[108]
As much as i hate to drag this discussion away from toasters and back on topic...
You still failed to answer my original question. So, let me ask again.
Can the MC honestly and right into my face, in sight of the entire community, say they do not use second accounts / corporations not in the IGA to produce their modules/ships?
Ill just explain why i ask this, since i seemed to have forgotten to do so in my first post. Using corporations / accounts not in your main corporation to produce modules / ships in relative safety is all fine and dandy by me. I honestly couldn't care less.
But it strikes me as odd when you then start complaining about XETIC doing this. Having production / industrial Corporations outside the official Alliance to make sure they are not a valid war target. Using such a Corporation yourself for producing your own modules / ships would show a sense of...hypocrisy.
Yes or no will suffice.
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
|
Leafo
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 17:46:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Can the MC honestly and right into my face, in sight of the entire community, say they do not use second accounts / corporations not in the IGA to produce their modules/ships?
North Star Networks does not, everything we do (military and industrial) we do in NSN.
As for the other members of the MC I honestly don't know, have never heard of it though.
//Leafo
click on sig for all my videos
|
Velsharoon
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 17:59:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Velsharoon on 11/04/2005 18:00:59
Industry / Rank 1 / SP: 256000 of 256000
level 5
Mass Production / Rank 2 / SP: 512000 of 512000
level 5
Mining / Rank 1 / SP: 256000 of 256000
level 5
Production Efficiency / Rank 3 / SP: 768000 of 768000
À4 Industry skills trained, for a total of 1,792,000 skillPoints.
I have 2 accounts, Velsharoon and Caoimhe, both Pvpers
Vels has been around longer and was the manufacturer in Dreamscape, turning pirate/merc a year ago. I build stuff when im sked
Vels also agent *****s when it suits, udually does 5 or 6 missions before getting bored.
We have several other PE 5s and can build T2 ships
However i buy most of my stuff from NAGA
This is typical of FRICK.
i dont mine btw thats a relic of a bygone era :)
Our minerals are from buy orders, and we also recieve ships/minerals as payment
|
Seleene
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 18:39:00 -
[111]
Edited by: Seleene on 11/04/2005 18:45:38
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
But it strikes me as odd when you then start complaining about XETIC doing this. Having production / industrial Corporations outside the official Alliance to make sure they are not a valid war target.[/i]
We never complained about XETIC doing what you say. The only thing we ever stated was that if a corp joins an IGA in the first place then they should be well aware of the risks that they are taking. You walk into an IGA with open eyes and should accept the consequenses of that action for so long as you wish to remain a part of it.
If you go in, leave and never come back, good for you. If you leave and are then let back in, that's shameful in my eyes. This is simply my opinion and that's all it's ever been about.
I will not discuss the creation or purpose of the MC IGA further. People can ***** all they want at us, just as we have done at XETIC. That's your right for paying a subscription fee. In the end, however, it's just a difference of opinion and certianly not worthy of a nearly seven page thread.
This thread has wandered from one end of the galaxy to the other and is OVER for my pilots. If you are in BDCI the only thing you need to be worried about at this time is preparing for our next contract. Do NOT test me on this.
/OUT.
-
T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today! |
Leafo
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 18:46:00 -
[112]
I couldn't have said it better myself Seleene, thank you.
Good luck to all of you out there, I'm off to polish my guns before next contract starts.
Leafo
click on sig for all my videos
|
Neurotic Cat
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 20:06:00 -
[113]
All this talk about IGAs is kinda silly. The IGA system is illogical and goofy.
Here is my idea:
1. We are hired to kill the bad guys.
2. Some of the bad guys flee their IGA to continue production work, thus supporting the target.
3. We need to war dec those corporations as well. Anyone supporting the target needs to die.
We have 4 corps in the MC - we could war dec the IGA, and use the remaining 8 slots to go after the various industrial corps that flee.
This isn't about 'feelings' or 'play style'. It's about killing the target.
|
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 20:08:00 -
[114]
I think this thread can be locked now.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Neurotic Cat
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 20:11:00 -
[115]
I don't. I think the discussion about the MC, the IGA, and what "total warfare" really means could go on for several more pages.
|
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 20:22:00 -
[116]
Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 11/04/2005 20:24:01
Originally by: Neurotic Cat
I don't. I think the discussion about the MC, the IGA, and what "total warfare" really means could go on for several more pages.
Why?
It's all just semantics and neither side will come to any sort of agreement.
It's a worrying but predictable sign that MC have become elitist and seem unable to see both sides of the coin. To MC, it seems if it isn't pvp (and I don't include the market pvp in this statement), then it's beneath your notice. Unfortunately, this is becoming a more common perception as Eve becomes a purely combat-orientated game.
You'll find XF's opinions are a dichotomy between pvp'ers and industrialist which, also predictably, brings derision and scorn from the close-minded uber-leet pvp core.
So, I'm asking this thread to be locked.
If you want to discuss IGA etc without bring the attitudes and flames, by all means do so. Hopefully XF flamers will avoid it too, but I doubt it.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
taaf
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 20:49:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 11/04/2005 20:24:01
Originally by: Neurotic Cat
I don't. I think the discussion about the MC, the IGA, and what "total warfare" really means could go on for several more pages.
Why?
It's all just semantics and neither side will come to any sort of agreement.
It's a worrying but predictable sign that MC have become elitist and seem unable to see both sides of the coin. To MC, it seems if it isn't pvp (and I don't include the market pvp in this statement), then it's beneath your notice. Unfortunately, this is becoming a more common perception as Eve becomes a purely combat-orientated game.
You'll find XF's opinions are a dichotomy between pvp'ers and industrialist which, also predictably, brings derision and scorn from the close-minded uber-leet pvp core.
So, I'm asking this thread to be locked.
If you want to discuss IGA etc without bring the attitudes and flames, by all means do so. Hopefully XF flamers will avoid it too, but I doubt it.
Sarcasm 4tw
|
Charity Regard
|
Posted - 2005.04.11 22:48:00 -
[118]
Personally Calvert, and I will likely get flamed for this by fellow MC members. But I agree with you and Riddari (and I never agree with him ) and dont really see the difference between using the IGA at your convenience to protect your industrialists and using the IGA at our convenience to help make war costs more bearable and easier on our clients.
I agree with you 100% that each of us plays the game in our own way...Hell I dont even leave the station and would be having kittens if CCP nerfed the chat features. The game isnt ALL PVP - there are TONS of ways to enjoy yourself in EVE without firing a single shot and I dont have a problem with the people who want to play it that way. I've always hated the 1337, we're better than you, carebear crap - cowardly, lacking honor, politcal garbage that is thrown around in this game, it's just silly.
If Xetic doesnt have a problem with people leaving and coming back to avoid wars, I dont see why it was an issue to us in the first place. As a 'completely neutral' organization in EVE, it isnt our place to pass judgement on our targets. It should be as simple as red = dead this week and red could very well be blue and paying us ISK next.
I'm probably in the minority, but I know I am not alone - there are other MC members who do agree with you guys that it is just semantics and shouldnt have been brought up in the first place.
xOxo
Charity
|
Krapz
|
Posted - 2005.04.12 01:09:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Charity Regard
I'm probably in the minority.
Nahh. I'm in the exact same mindset. Manipulation works both ways, don't try and draw black and white lines in a very large grey area.
Besides, I think most level headed ppl don't read these forums anymore. Good to see you're still around though
-- Insert cool graphics sig here -- |
Julien Derida
|
Posted - 2005.04.12 01:27:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
As much as i hate to drag this discussion away from toasters and back on topic...
You still failed to answer my original question. So, let me ask again.
Can the MC honestly and right into my face, in sight of the entire community, say they do not use second accounts / corporations not in the IGA to produce their modules/ships?
Ill just explain why i ask this, since i seemed to have forgotten to do so in my first post. Using corporations / accounts not in your main corporation to produce modules / ships in relative safety is all fine and dandy by me. I honestly couldn't care less.
But it strikes me as odd when you then start complaining about XETIC doing this. Having production / industrial Corporations outside the official Alliance to make sure they are not a valid war target. Using such a Corporation yourself for producing your own modules / ships would show a sense of...hypocrisy.
Yes or no will suffice.
I thought I answered that question the first time . As Vels implied, the answer to your question is NO. FRICK produce most equipment needed in-house using minerals and components obtained from buy orders. Anything we don't produce, we buy using the normal methods. Bear in mind that the payment for a contract doesn't have to consist of ISK, it could also be an agreement to supply e.g. HACs at low prices. We have no need for an alt production corp, and to be honest none of us would have the motivation to run it.
----------------------------------------
Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK |
Cabadrin
|
Posted - 2005.04.12 04:10:00 -
[121]
Can we get back to sandwiches?
1 c. chicken breast, cooked & diced
1/2 c. celery
1/2 c. mayonnaise
2 Tbsp. avocado, diced
2 tsp. lemon juice
1/4 tsp. salt
1/8 tsp. pepper
8 slices sourdough bread
In a mixing bowl, add the chicken, celery, mayonnaise, avocado, lemon juice, salt and pepper.
Toast gently until thoroughly mixed. Using a spoon or scoop, spread the chicken salad on the bread.
Place the other slice of sourdough bread on top. Using a sharp knife cut the bread in half and place on plate and serve.
-----------------------------------------------
Coalition Kill Board |
Charity Regard
|
Posted - 2005.04.12 04:16:00 -
[122]
WOW Cabby...that sounds yummy!! I know what I'll be sending CJ to the store for tomorrow to fufill my preggo cravings
I do have to say that I miss the days when threads were derailed with talk of panties, riding crops and citrus fruit. Toasters and Sandwiches...it's all so manly.
xOxo
Charity
|
Cabadrin
|
Posted - 2005.04.12 04:23:00 -
[123]
For you charity
Fruit Salad:
3 (15-ounce) cans chunky fruit*****tail, drained
1 (11-ounce) can Mandarin oranges, drained
1 cup miniature marshmallows
1 cup sweetened flake coconut
2 bananas, thinly sliced
2/3 cup Nestle Carnation Evaporated Milk
1 cup sliced fresh strawberries
COMBINE fruit*****tail, oranges, marshmallows, coconut, bananas and evaporated milk in large bowl. Refrigerate for 30 minutes. Stir in strawberries before serving.
-----------------------------------------------
Coalition Kill Board |
Charity Regard
|
Posted - 2005.04.12 05:07:00 -
[124]
LOL...okay, you know it's bad when you see a recipe for fruit salad and start humming while hearing 4 wiggling aussies dressed in primary colors singing "Fruit Salad...yummy...yummy" in your mind. So Wrong!
xOxo
Charity
|
Karmic
|
Posted - 2005.04.12 07:36:00 -
[125]
I have to admit I really don't care about this thread but I have to admit I am the soft industrial belly of the MC. Yes move over CYVOK me and my 20 spare accounts all with large marges produce everything the MC needs to blowup anyone asking silly questions about our soft industrial belly.
- - - - - - - - -
|
Weebear
|
Posted - 2005.04.12 07:48:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Karmic
...my 20 spare accounts all with large marges...
So you are the sandwich maker? What about the people that prefer butter?
-----------------------
Honor and Serve!
|
MuthaTrucka
|
Posted - 2005.04.12 08:04:00 -
[127]
\0/ COOKIES \0/
---------------
Don't Call me a Carebear,
I don't really care about much at all.
---------------
[ Internally Yours foyle, MT ]
|
Velsharoon
|
Posted - 2005.04.12 19:58:00 -
[128]
Daltons "Big D"
White sub with butter
bacon
ham
turkey
smoked cheese
eat
mmMMMMMM
|
Maya Rkell
|
Posted - 2005.04.12 21:27:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Seleene
I have heard are that members of a 'mercenary' alliance would not be allowed to errect a POS or ever claim territory.
Yea, I suggested it and it still seems entirely reasonable to me.
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
meowcat
|
Posted - 2005.04.14 10:31:00 -
[130]
- 2 slices of fresh white sliced bread (the cheap stuff with the bleached flour and zero nutritional content is best)
- apply butter
- add several doorstep sized lumps of medium-mature cheddar cheese
- liberally smear the above with copious amounts of strawberry jam
~~~~)\~~~~~\o/~~~~
yeah but no but yeah but no but |
Riddari
|
Posted - 2005.04.14 17:01:00 -
[131]
Edited by: Riddari on 14/04/2005 17:00:55
Shockingly me and Charity are agreeing on something.
As for a member corporation of MC using an alt-production company, I've been told at least one of them does but that's by the by for now.
Moderators please note, the topic starter requested his topic to be locked, which is in relation to the rules.
edited spelling
¼©¼
a history |
Kusotarre
|
Posted - 2005.04.18 10:08:00 -
[132]
Lots of people are bashing you guys for apparent thoughtcrimes... or rather, for the possibility you might cheat the system, which I think is entirely unfair.
As one of the corps on the receiving end of one of your guys' contracts, I'll just say that I hope you guys live up to your talk, and don't leave/join the alliance to avoid wars. I don't think you will, as your previous threads have shown you stand by your word and are even willing to educate your (potential) victims.
See you in space.
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