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Mercenary Coalition: an official alliance?

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Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2005.04.10 14:38:00 - [31] Originally by: Julien Derida Edited by: Julien Derida on 10/04/2005 14:06:19 Originally by: Weebear So if the unthinkable happens and someone does declare war on the MC, what happens? Do they all defend that alliance? Just the ones that were in the alliance at the time? Will individual corps be allowed to leave their alliance mates to fight while they pursue other interests? Personally I find it a bit hypocritical, but at the same time I agree it is the best thing that the MC can do taking into account the upcoming changes to the war system. The point is, we have nothing to defend. We have no soft industrial underbelly that would gain anything from avoiding wars, or which needs protecting. Anyone declaring the MC will find themselves in the same situation as one of our contract targets. I'm sure this is not a desirable situation for most. If one of our corps is found outside the MC, then it will be because we are pursuing an individual contract. We would be unable to do this from within the IGA because of the limitation on war slots. You won't find any MC corps leaving the IGA in order to avoid a war. We live for wars :) We are simply using the game mechanics to pursue our chosen profession to the best of our ability. The recent alliance war cost changes could be seen as a major nerf to the mercenary profession. Instead of whining about them, we are adapting. While I see how this stance could be superficially viewed as hypocritical, I would argue that there is an undeniable difference in spirit between this situation and XETICs. In XETICs case, corps were using the ability to leave the alliance as an easy fix to the their vulneribility in empire. The corps that left XETIC had plenty of other options. They could have spent their time in 0.0. They could have organised pilots to protect their empire operations. They didn't do that. They just left the IGA. I saw this as somewhat poor form compared to the XETIC corporations like CLS who did make the effort to defend their empire operations. Simply put: Jumping in and out of XETIC was only a matter of convenience for most. Jumping in and out of the MC is the only way we can pursue our profession economically. Industrial corporations leaving XF during wartime did so in order to strengthen our PVP'ing ability by giving us an untroubled access to haulers, constructions, and ship transports which are all highly important for logistics and supply. Jumping in and out of XF was a matter of logistics and was the only way the industrial corp. members could help us economically. So you see, words can be twisted to suit all situations LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Latex Mistress	Posted - 2005.04.10 14:43:00 - [32] Originally by: Weebear Got it, so as long as the motivation behind an act is to pursue PvP, it is OK to use game mechanics any way you want, but if it is for anything else, your alliance should be publicly flamed to hell and back for it. /me sighs If you're going to continue to dodge the issue, then don't bother posting at all. Here, I'll use your own sentance in the proper context in order to get it through to you: So long as the motivation behind an act is not cowardly, it's ok to use game mechanics in the way they were meant to be. But if it is for a cowardly act, your alliance gets what it has coming to them by people who look down on cowardly acts. Besides, I don't know what you're on about - CLS is one of the few corps in Xetic that did put up a fight (such as they were). I have respect for the corps that left Xetic and no longer continued operations supporting that alliance. I have none for the corps who left on day one, yet rejoined as soon as the war was over, and smacked up the forums as they saw fit... Originally by: Weebear What is your stance towards 2 man alt corps? The same as X... an alliance... telling their people to inflate their corp numbers by incorporating them (2-man alt corps) in order to inflate war costs and C** corps telling their people to use alt-haulers for their functions, and having more alts in space than pilots at any given moment, and.... It's a PvP game you know. Doing everything possible in order to get away from it kinda defeats the purpose. I submit WoW as a better choice in that case. If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
Seleene	Posted - 2005.04.10 14:49:00 - [33] Originally by: Weebear Got it, so as long as the motivation behind an act is to pursue PvP, it is OK to use game mechanics any way you want, but if it is for anything else, your alliance should be publicly flamed to hell and back for it. Example - If you wish to publicly flame say... FRICK and TC for leaving the MC IGA to go to war with XETIC again while BDCI and NSN remain in the IGA to pursue a war against FoE, then be my guest. You can attempt to confuse the issue all you want, but there is a solid difference between: "We are getting our asses kicked, pal! Game over, man! Game over!! We're out of this!" and "Guys, we've gotta go kick somebody's ass without you for a couple weeks. We'll try to bring back some goot loot!" One is due to cowardice, lack of backbone or integrity. The other is not. Quote: What is your stance towards 2 man alt corps? If ten of them declare on us tommorow, it won't bother me in the slightest, especially if they want to pay the "new and improved" war fees. Everyone in the MC is a warrior first. We improvise. We adapt. We overcome. (Gotta love that movie...) While CCP addresses the many flaws in the current game mechanic and until the next generation alliance system evolves, we will make due with what we have. In the meantime, I don't think it will be an issue anytime soon. There seems to be a lot of outside interest in keeping our four corps working together for the immediate future. Josh, your last post is argumenative in the extreme. The MC is possibly the only IGA formed to date that has no territorial or political affiliations or ramifications. We exist only because the game mechanic has not been created that will allow us to fill our role in the game as we see fit. Once that game mechanic exists, we will jump into it immediately, accepting all of the pros and cons therein. I can't put it any simpler. - T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today!
Leno	Posted - 2005.04.10 14:53:00 - [34] The way I see it, despite the obvious reasoning behind it is this: XF did it and got away with it. So therfore why can't they leave and rejoin the alliance. It has never been against the rules for someone to join a corp for a war then leave when it ends. --------------- RIP - Smoske, My Friend
Julien Derida	Posted - 2005.04.10 14:58:00 - [35] Edited by: Julien Derida on 10/04/2005 15:04:32 Originally by: Weebear Got it, so as long as the motivation behind an act is to pursue PvP, it is OK to use game mechanics any way you want, but if it is for anything else, your alliance should be publicly flamed to hell and back for it. What is your stance towards 2 man alt corps? No, it's OK as long as you are not using the mechanics to bypass a more appropriate 'in-character' response. Leaving an alliance to avoid a war is the equivalent of logging during combat to save your ship. It is using a metagaming method to save yourself because you can't be bothered to put the in-game effort in. An alliance corp can defend its operations in empire, or simply move them somewhere where they won't be found. It isn't rocket science. Latex even made an excellent post telling corps how to achieve this if they didn't already know. Many XETIC corps took this path, and I respect them for that. Unfortunately, many others didn't. As for 2 man alt corps.... I really have no opinion on them. I've not seen one inflict any appreciable amount of damage to anyone. Are they really worth worrying about? ---------------------------------------- Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2005.04.10 15:00:00 - [36] Something else though. You guys claim you have no industrial underbelly and all that. Yet you produce atleast 4 of the Heavy Assault Cruisers, and mostlikely alot more. So these are produced by yourself. So, either you do have an industrial underbelly which could be harmed, or, drumroll this is done by an altcorp not part of the Coalition. Care to enlighten me? /Elve New Video out! Watch me!
Julien Derida	Posted - 2005.04.10 15:04:00 - [37] Originally by: Joshua Calvert Jumping in and out of XF was a matter of logistics and was the only way the industrial corp. members could help us economically. No, those logistics could have still been performed within the IGA. All that was needed was some escorts and a bit of thought about the time of day you were going to conduct these operations. There was an alternative to leaving the IGA. Seriously, I'm not twisting words here. Can you come up with a way for all 4 MC corporations to pursue individual contracts simultaneously while all being in the IGA? ---------------------------------------- Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK
Julien Derida	Posted - 2005.04.10 15:09:00 - [38] Edited by: Julien Derida on 10/04/2005 15:11:21 Originally by: Elve Sorrow Something else though. You guys claim you have no industrial underbelly and all that. Yet you produce atleast 4 of the Heavy Assault Cruisers, and mostlikely alot more. So these are produced by yourself. So, either you do have an industrial underbelly which could be harmed, or, drumroll this is done by an altcorp not part of the Coalition. Care to enlighten me? I can only speak for FRICK, here. We simply buy minerals and buy components. Production itself is not a soft target as it can be done entirely inside a station, it is the gathering of resources that provides the soft target. We don't gather resources and hence we don't have a soft underbelly. We would probably be richer if we mined, agent *****d and ran a PoS ourselves, but we don't want to. Money is overrated. ---------------------------------------- Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK
Latex Mistress	Posted - 2005.04.10 15:13:00 - [39] Originally by: Leno So therfore why can't they leave and rejoin the alliance. For the same reason why pilots can't leave a war dec'd corp for an NPC corp and rejoin after the war is over? Maybe because it removes the need for skills, good fittings, good tactics, and good piloting, replacing it with "hey, let's just hide here until they get bored and leave"? Maybe because it's a PvP game, and doing everything you can in order to avoid it is lame? Might as well just delete your character for as much fun as that would be. Yeah, brilliant tactic there. @Elve: we've changed our stance a bit after the Xetic contract... We now have Seleene Jules, and Ith in a race to see who can get a faction BS first without buying it. I'm betting on Josh Calvert! er... If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
Sheriff Justice	Posted - 2005.04.10 15:17:00 - [40] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Something else though. You guys claim you have no industrial underbelly and all that. Yet you produce atleast 4 of the Heavy Assault Cruisers, and mostlikely alot more. So these are produced by yourself. So, either you do have an industrial underbelly which could be harmed, or, drumroll this is done by an altcorp not part of the Coalition. Care to enlighten me? Quick, quick! War dec BDCI's buy orders!! SJ
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2005.04.10 15:23:00 - [41] You have trouble answering an honest question with a proper answer i see. Thanks for the FRICK guy for atleast being serious. So did i hit a nerve? /Elve New Video out! Watch me!
Weebear	Posted - 2005.04.10 15:25:00 - [42] Originally by: Julien Derida Seriously, I'm not twisting words here. Can you come up with a way for all 4 MC corporations to pursue individual contracts simultaneously while all being in the IGA? Nope! Look to CCP for that, I agree that at this moment in time the IGA is the best way for you to work but it does open up a whole load of what ifs for you if any other of the so called PvP corps/alliances in game decide to declare war on your alliance or an individual corp who left the alliance. I know Seleene will have looked into all possibilities before making any decision. From a role-playing perspective, I would have thought it better to remain seperate and pass the cost on to the customer, but obviously there is no way this would ever work and you would be doing yourself out a job. ----------------------- Honor and Serve!
Agent Kenshin	Posted - 2005.04.10 15:27:00 - [43] Originally by: Sheriff Justice Originally by: Elve Sorrow Something else though. You guys claim you have no industrial underbelly and all that. Yet you produce atleast 4 of the Heavy Assault Cruisers, and mostlikely alot more. So these are produced by yourself. So, either you do have an industrial underbelly which could be harmed, or, drumroll this is done by an altcorp not part of the Coalition. Care to enlighten me? Quick, quick! War dec BDCI's buy orders!! SJ OMG not our buy orders... You'll crush us all... Originally by: MAXSuicide only carebears call pvpers 'greifers' ehehehh....
Trooper B99	Posted - 2005.04.10 15:49:00 - [44] I think the best way to consider the MC industrial side is thus: We continually make all of our (wide variety of) Tech II stuff and all players are still out killing our targets when on contract. Would this be possible if we had our people mining/agent running/etc all the time? No, it wouldn't be. As Julien says, highly priced buy orders can net nearly everything you need for tech II production without you ever having to leave a station and factorys run themselves. Anyways, i think this topic can be summed up thus: Yes, the MC now has an IGA. Yes, we adapt as the game changes. Yes, we will leave it as our contracts require. Yes, we will still give great value for money service Yes, we will continue to fight alliances despite war system changes. Yes, we are in fact out to kill you. Yes, we will fight/contract for anyone who pays us. We are the Mercenary Coallition. We are a ravening scourge in empires "safe space". Targets beware. !Thank you for using the Mercenary Coallition! !Please come again! Wirykomi Team Racer - COLOSSUS Championships Year 106
Draximus Cane	Posted - 2005.04.10 15:52:00 - [45] Edited by: Draximus Cane on 10/04/2005 15:52:27 arrrgrh Troop you missed: Yes, we still make kick ass sandwitches! -------------------------------------------------
Latex Mistress	Posted - 2005.04.10 15:54:00 - [46] I think Trooper has the final word from BDCI here - just about everybody's question has been answered. See everyone in space (even if it's from a Cov Ops). If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
Artharas	Posted - 2005.04.10 16:02:00 - [47] Edited by: Artharas on 10/04/2005 16:03:51 Originally by: Latex Mistress It's a PvP game you know. Doing everything possible in order to get away from it kinda defeats the purpose. I submit WoW as a better choice in that case. This is the attitude I HATE from PvPers. I am mostly a PvPer, but what I find great about this game is not the PvP but the fact this game is whatever you like to do. this game is NOT a PvP game unless you like PvP(and when your corp/alliance is in dier[sp?] need) Sometimes I find PvPers are WAY to arrogance to the "carebears" because the PvPers playstyle is so much more uber, fun and right then the "carebear" playstyle. ------------------------- These are my views and don't necessarily represent my corp nor my alliance.
Wuubaa	Posted - 2005.04.10 16:03:00 - [48] YAY now we dont av to pay 5000000000000000000000000mil if we war dec the same alliance as MC
Valeriya	Posted - 2005.04.10 16:07:00 - [49] /me looks at her new IGA tag. Oh cool! When did you sneak this in Sel? Kinda like a new and improved MC... With fresh lemon scent! - Stop on by and ask about our low insurance rates.
Julien Derida	Posted - 2005.04.10 16:16:00 - [50] Originally by: Artharas This is the attitude I HATE from PvPers. I am mostly a PvPer, but what I find great about this game is not the PvP but the fact this game is whatever you like to do. this game is NOT a PvP game unless you like PvP(and when your corp/alliance is in dier[sp?] need) Sometimes I find PvPers are WAY to arrogance to the "carebears" because the PvPers playstyle is so much more uber, fun and right then the "carebear" playstyle. Thats a bit rich coming from a guy who griefed a perfectly innocent Sharks Indy fight before the XETIC war by deliberately running into peoples smartbombs to get them concordokkened. ---------------------------------------- Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK
Valeriya	Posted - 2005.04.10 16:19:00 - [51] Originally by: Artharas Sometimes I find PvPers are WAY to arrogance to the "carebears" because the PvPers playstyle is so much more uber, fun and right then the "carebear" playstyle. Well, BDCI plays both sides of the fence equally. So we understand the value industrialists play. When between contracts Seleene goes into full carebear mode. I mean, you mention the word Ferrogel or Isogen and she starts drooling and yelling on TS "KEEEL T3H ROIDS!!!111one" It's like night and day with her really... - Stop on by and ask about our low insurance rates.
Seleene	Posted - 2005.04.10 16:30:00 - [52] I am really amazed that this thread has gone this far. Let me repeat something I said earlier for those who might have missed it: The MC is possibly the only IGA formed to date that has no territorial or political affiliations or ramifications. We exist only because the game mechanic has not been created that will allow us to fill our role in the game as we see fit. Once that game mechanic exists, we will jump into it immediately, accepting all of the pros and cons therein. While we have friends, we have no allies or NAPs. While there are those we respect, we have no fear of anyone. Bring it if you wish. While our work takes us everywhere, we have no cares about who owns what regions. While one is obviously better than the other, we have no idea why people like Pepsi more than Coke. Josh asked a question and I gave a very simple answer. I find it amazing that anyone finds this the least bit complicated. Here's an idea - why not save all of the speculation et al until you actually see an MC corp leave the IGA. All my current information says that won't happen anytime soon regardless. - T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today!
Leafo	Posted - 2005.04.10 16:40:00 - [53] Edited by: Leafo on 10/04/2005 16:40:18 OMG people!! Why the need to throw pies at eachother?! Geez! From where did this alliance-jump-in-and-out-question come from? This is not about that. This is not about difference between PvP and industrial corporations, everyone plays EVE in their own way. This is about CCP changing the game in a way that it makes it harder (or impossible) for us (the MC) to play EVE the way we want to - as mercenaries. The only reason for us to start this IGA is to ensure that we can still carry on playing the game as we wish, even though many people seem to try and stop that way of playing at all cost. As mercenaries in this game we now have to do the same thing as mercenaries has been forced to do many times before - adapt to new game mechanics. The issue you all discuss so furiously is not an issue. You are already speculating that MC corporations will leave when/if they get war declared on them. Let it go, we will see if that times come. If you see MC corporations temporarily leaving the IGA in order to still be able to take individual contracts as a problem, declare on the corp. It's much cheaper than declaring the alliance. The IGA only exists for us to be able to play the game as we want to even though it is hard with changes that counteract our style of play all the time. You see us whining? No, you see us adapting! See you in space. click on sig for all my videos
Draximus Cane	Posted - 2005.04.10 16:45:00 - [54] Originally by: Leafo You see us whining? No, you see us adapting! Then making a sandwitch.... Err Video for all of eve to enjoy :) -------------------------------------------------
Roger Dodger	Posted - 2005.04.10 16:49:00 - [55] Edited by: Roger Dodger on 10/04/2005 16:50:21 No offense, but if you expect CCP to make sweeping game mechanics changes to better suit the gameplay needs of 4 corps which comprise less than 0.5% of EVE's population, you've lost your minds. __________________ Proud member of the SinBin Fan Club
Seleene	Posted - 2005.04.10 16:52:00 - [56] Edited by: Seleene on 10/04/2005 16:55:03 Originally by: Roger Dodger No offense, but if you expect CCP to change game mechanics to better suit the gameplay needs of 4 corps which comprise less than 1% of EVE's population, you've lost your minds. We are not the only ones knocking down CCP's door to fulfill a promise they made nearly two years ago. The bounty hunting system does not exist. The Merc profession is possible only by using a mechanic not designed for it and adapting it. As to my mental state, it's quite stable considering I've actually spoken to CCP on this issue and been assured that changes are indeed in the works. No offense taken. - T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today!
Julien Derida	Posted - 2005.04.10 16:53:00 - [57] Edited by: Julien Derida on 10/04/2005 16:54:07 Originally by: Roger Dodger Edited by: Roger Dodger on 10/04/2005 16:50:21 No offense, but if you expect CCP to make sweeping game mechanics changes to better suit the gameplay needs of 4 corps which comprise less than 0.5% of EVE's population, you've lost your minds. Which is why you haven't seen us starting 20 page whining threads about this war change . We know we're not going to get any major help from CCP, so we just make the best of things. ---------------------------------------- Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK
Lowa	Posted - 2005.04.10 16:54:00 - [58] WÍRD! /LOWA Oh! Yeah! Huh! MC - Going funky all over your clone baby!
Latex Mistress	Posted - 2005.04.10 16:57:00 - [59] Originally by: Lowa WÍRD! CL_-? If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
Roger Dodger	Posted - 2005.04.10 16:57:00 - [60] Originally by: Seleene Edited by: Seleene on 10/04/2005 16:55:03 Originally by: Roger Dodger No offense, but if you expect CCP to change game mechanics to better suit the gameplay needs of 4 corps which comprise less than 1% of EVE's population, you've lost your minds. We are not the only ones knocking down CCP's door to fulfill a promise they made nearly two years ago. The bounty hunting system does not exist. The Merc profession is possible only by using a mechanic not designed for it and adapting it. As to my mental state, it's quite stable considering I've actually spoken to CCP on this issue and been assured that changes are indeed in the works. No offense taken. We're talking about the same CCP who said Titans would be out in 2004. I'll believe it when I see it. __________________ Proud member of the SinBin Fan Club

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