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Dear CCP - NERF THE ****ING GURISTAS JAMMING, thanks

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m3talc0re X Mercs of Vengeance 103	Posted - 2012.11.07 04:47:00 - [1] - Quote Whoever had the bright idea of putting 4 jamming battleships into Dread Pirate Scarlet needs to brought out back and shot. I have been jammed straight for nearly 15 minutes now. This is ridiculous and unacceptable. Before any of you chime in with "use eccm" or the like, get informed. The ** does nothing to stop it. So far the best strategy I've had against it is a Backup Sensor in the lows and a Sebo with scan res in the mids to hopefully lock up fast enough between a jam and get a volley or two off before I'm jammed again. This ** needs fixed.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc 222	Posted - 2012.11.07 05:02:00 - [2] - Quote The problem seems clear to me: weak NPC rats have full strength EWAR effects. They should have weakened EWAR effects if there are going to be so many of them. It wouldn't be a problem for a small fleet of pilots, like I suspect level 4 missions were intended to be completed by, but the non-EWAR NPCs are easy enough to be soloed and the pay is similar to other solo work in highsec. This needs balance!! Please take a look at missions when you're done with the ship balancing and tiericide!! -á"The Mittani: Hated By Badposters i'm strangely comfortable with it" -Mittens
m3talc0re X Mercs of Vengeance 103	Posted - 2012.11.07 05:36:00 - [3] - Quote I just lost my Vargur. Last room of Dread Pirate, All the dps caught up to me and I couldn't get it off me. My drones wouldn't engage the scam on their own. I couldn't do anything but watch. This is the first time I've ever had so much trouble with this mission. The first room was Angels, then all the rooms after were Guristas. I'm so pissed right now.
Cheif Prophet ISK International.Inc 0	Posted - 2012.11.07 06:46:00 - [4] - Quote I also noticed that the jamming is really bad with the guristas. I was in a DRAKE doing a LV2 mission "Recon" and the grista cruisers were jamming me nonstop. I never had trouble with lv2 until this happened. It wouldnGÇÖt be so bad if the shields didnGÇÖt almost completely regenerate after the jamming stops. i can kill the dessys and frigs easily but the cruisers are pissing me off no matter what IGÇÖm driving. Now IGÇÖm forced to fit a MWD on my drake just to get out of there range. Not everyone can just out range rats. A lot of people like to use med and close range combat, making that mission exceedingly difficult...did i mention itGÇÖs only a lv2 mission?
Angeal MacNova LankTech Adult Entertainment Alliance 21	Posted - 2012.11.07 06:48:00 - [5] - Quote If it wasn't for the fact I would find it extremely boring, it's tempting to mine to earn isk. It seems to offer more isk with less risk. The scram/dampening combo is everkill for a high sec mission. I haven't come across belt rats that can scram and come in great enough numbers to pop any miner that happens to be there mining...
Iris Bravemount Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 117	Posted - 2012.11.07 12:11:00 - [6] - Quote I think the main problem is that you already need to fit a massive omnitank in Dread Scarlet, which leaves you with no space for ECCM. Bringing friends could be a solution, if that wouldn't trigger even more rats with scram and ECM. Why active tank bonuses are bad for you
Alexander Gorbachov Gorbachov Holding Corp 0	Posted - 2012.12.10 11:23:00 - [7] - Quote CCP please remove the jammers / disruptors from level 4's. They are literally impossible now. I lost a paladin within 2 hours of logging in for the first time in a year. I bought a replacement paladin and with more caution was able to stay alive easily but could not HIT anything. Before you tell me that i need drones I can tell you that my t2 drones are not doing enough damage to overcome the NPC tank. THIS NEEDS TO BE NERFED
ITTigerClawIK Galactic Rangers Intrepid Crossing 155	Posted - 2012.12.10 11:52:00 - [8] - Quote move to amarr space?-
Seranova Farreach DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale. 28	Posted - 2012.12.10 13:15:00 - [9] - Quote all you need is sensor compensation skills to 4 and dont pop the trigger befor your ready
Aptenodytes Reckless Abandon 13	Posted - 2012.12.10 14:41:00 - [10] - Quote ITTigerClawIK wrote: move to amarr space?- +1, move region. I did it a while ago and my earnings have gone up by about 30% due to not being jammed (and better LP stores). My chill has also gone up 50%.

Commander Ted Dookie on the flowah 117	Posted - 2012.12.10 16:31:00 - [11] - Quote Whose idea was it to give the NPCs an ability that is uncounterable and its only effect is making you unable to do anything for 20 seconds? That does not sound fun. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Albert Wittmann 6	Posted - 2012.12.10 16:35:00 - [12] - Quote Tested it with an Ibis ... was permajammed :D +++ [Ibis, Ibis] Ballistic Control System II Gravimetric Backup Array II 1MN Afterburner II Small Shield Booster II Experimental TE-2100 Light Missile Launcher, Scourge Light Missile Experimental TE-2100 Light Missile Launcher, Scourge Light Missile Hobgoblin II x1 +++ Sensorstrength was at 8,9 with this fit and my skills (All at 5 make 10,7), one Tech2 Gravimetric ECM on Griffin got a strength of ~7,9 as playership (Griffin) and all at 5 ... Tried it for 15 Minutes, but i havent really a chance to lock on Guristas Despoiler (Griffin) ... this Despoiler are really good in their job, only every fifth jamcycle was a fail ...
Commander Ted Dookie on the flowah 117	Posted - 2012.12.10 18:54:00 - [13] - Quote It wouldnt be so bad if it were say... a every 30 seconds a chance for a 5 second jam cycle. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Zee87 Black Lancers Ressurection 0	Posted - 2012.12.10 19:25:00 - [14] - Quote m3talc0re X wrote: I just lost my Vargur. Last room of Dread Pirate, All the dps caught up to me and I couldn't get it off me. My drones wouldn't engage the scam on their own. I couldn't do anything but watch. This is the first time I've ever had so much trouble with this mission. The first room was Angels, then all the rooms after were Guristas. I'm so pissed right now. Ouch... I hope they'll reimburse it. If I lost my Vargur, I'd probably quit EVE for a long time. You can't even insure it enough, that's something else they seriously need to fix. btw were you using a med cap booster on the Varg? People kept recommending to me to use one, but I have flown the Varg enough, and I do not think a med cap booster is enough for an X-Large shield booster. Some of the tougher missions, I found myself warping out constantly, because I had run out of cap and my med booster hadn't reloaded yet. So I squeezed in a heavy booster on mine. Still using 800mm T2 arties and an afterburner on it too, 60km falloff (99km with barrage). Does 1000 dps, and tanks 1000 dps omni. and yeah, I too think they need to nerf the jamming guristas in that mission.
Kahega Amielden Rifterlings Damu'Khonde 525	Posted - 2012.12.10 19:40:00 - [15] - Quote Quote: If I lost my Vargur, I'd probably quit EVE for a long time. Looks like someone values their internet spaceships way too much Quote: You can't even insure it enough, that's something else they seriously need to fix. One of the downsides of flying a t2 ship is that you are not able to insure it for its full value. Working as intended. Quote: Before any of you chime in with "use eccm" or the like, get informed. The **** does nothing to stop it. ...Yes. You're completely right. ECCM does nothing to stop it, but another, weaker module that does the same thing but worse (Sensor backup array) does. All those people who think that sensor strength and jam probability need to get informed.
Buzzy Warstl The Strontium Asylum 214	Posted - 2012.12.10 19:47:00 - [16] - Quote Cheif Prophet wrote: I also noticed that the jamming is really bad with the guristas. I was in a DRAKE doing a LV2 mission "Recon" and the grista cruisers were jamming me nonstop. I never had trouble with lv2 until this happened. It wouldnGÇÖt be so bad if the shields didnGÇÖt almost completely regenerate after the jamming stops. i can kill the dessys and frigs easily but the cruisers are pissing me off no matter what IGÇÖm driving. Now IGÇÖm forced to fit a MWD on my drake just to get out of there range. Not everyone can just out range rats. A lot of people like to use med and close range combat, making that mission exceedingly difficult...did i mention itGÇÖs only a lv2 mission? If you try to clear Recon L2 it's harder than most L4 missions, fortunately it isn't the mission or I'd have never made it past L2 missions.
Dave stark Black Nova Corp. R O G U E 790	Posted - 2012.12.10 20:30:00 - [17] - Quote Angeal MacNova wrote: If it wasn't for the fact I would find it extremely boring, it's tempting to mine to earn isk. It seems to offer more isk with less risk. The scram/dampening combo is overkill for a high sec mission. I haven't come across belt rats that can scram and come in great enough numbers to pop any miner that happens to be there mining... if you're mining, and you already have your drones out, as soon as a rat tries to scram you, sucessful or unsuccessful, your drones go and pop them anyway. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold.
Bump Truck Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 19	Posted - 2012.12.10 20:34:00 - [18] - Quote m3talc0re X wrote: I just lost my Vargur. Last room of Dread Pirate, All the dps caught up to me and I couldn't get it off me. My drones wouldn't engage the scam on their own. I couldn't do anything but watch. This is the first time I've ever had so much trouble with this mission. The first room was Angels, then all the rooms after were Guristas. I'm so pissed right now. Delicious. One question? Are you sure you're supposed to be able to solo this mission? Jams are much less effective the more targets they're applied to.
Zan Shiro Alternative Enterprises 42	Posted - 2012.12.10 21:38:00 - [19] - Quote Commander Ted wrote: Whose idea was it to give the NPCs an ability that is uncounterable and its only effect is making you unable to do anything for 20 seconds? That does not sound fun. It is counterable. Been slumming in caldari space forever. Talons, eccm, sensor backup array and tengu (sensor sub'd). This will unless RNG hates you get maybe 1 jam the whole mission. HG talons optional actually....I have another alt trained for tengu no talons that goes mostly jam free. Either way I just roll through these missions. This was before the new skill hit the server, have not tested after release yet. PVE is kind of like PVP. Sometimes you need more than 1 ship to have the the right tool for the job. Marauders are not the right tool for the job against gurista (weak base sensor, even my talon'ed clone had issues with ecm in a golem). Loki sub'd to boost sensor strength would be in op's case most likely fair much better. With a speed tank to laugh off missile damage to ride out the storm whiile jammed. Don't want more than 1 ship, really have a a hankering for a maruader to hit rats with....then turn down gurista missions. To offset this being a pita, leave caldari space. Their mission distribution rates drop off when you do this. Or hell stay in caldari space. Of late I have been getting spammed by sansha, drones and merc missions. When RNG gets in a groove I don't see gurista very often.
Joe Risalo State War Academy Caldari State 308	Posted - 2012.12.10 21:58:00 - [20] - Quote I had an Idea around this a LONG time ago. That idea is similar to what missiles have, only modified for turrets. Basically, it would be an attachable/detachable module. It would attach to turrets, thus allowing them to be computer controlled and no longer require targetting. I.E. : FoF module. The negative to attaching one of these modules is that it would cut down your optimal range. It would not effect tracking however. There would be a t1 and t2 module. t2 would have a smaller penalty. To add to this, for close range missiles, I would like to see them able to field fof as well. Perhaps they don't need the addition of new missiles, but instead allow them to use the fof of a related class. I.E. rockets could use fof lights hams could use fof heavies torps could use fof cruise This not only would cut back issues with missions, but would also give soft counters to player based ewar. If you balanced them properly, you could possibly make them immune to TDs as well as SDs and ecm. Also, in order to attach or remove this module from your turret would require 10 seconds on or off. Edit, or, you can fit range and a MJD and out range them before they can jam you....(this is currently possible in game)

tankus2 The Peace Keepers 73	Posted - 2012.12.11 03:09:00 - [21] - Quote um, I think the issue here is that you are trying to fight a mission that is supposed to be unfightable. Especially if it's Recon 1/3 at any level. Same can be said about 2/3 (same mission), though I don't know how many people want to fight mercs. Recon was designed for the player to show up, race for the gate, jump through, then warp back to station when prompted in local. For all three of them. Even though there are things to shoot at in the first two. Now, if you do lv 4 Recon 3/3 you could bring a skiff along to mine out the last area of ores; some of which can't be found in the local belts! Where the science gets done
Zan Shiro Alternative Enterprises 42	Posted - 2012.12.11 04:02:00 - [22] - Quote that first mission is decent money. LV 4 is anyway And hate to say it but.....tengu runs it nice. right click orbit a structure and plink away (with a jam resistant fit ofc). 2nd mission not so great....If I got the spare time I hit it. Most times I blitz it tbh. 3rd mission a case in point for what I said about more than 1 ship. I speed fit a tanky shield ship jsut to haul ass and eat up the ambient damage waves in the room.
Joe Risalo State War Academy Caldari State 309	Posted - 2012.12.11 04:36:00 - [23] - Quote Zan Shiro wrote: that first mission is decent money. LV 4 is anyway And hate to say it but.....tengu runs it nice. right click orbit a structure and plink away (with a jam resistant fit ofc). 2nd mission not so great....If I got the spare time I hit it. Most times I blitz it tbh. 3rd mission a case in point for what I said about more than 1 ship. I speed fit a tanky shield ship jsut to haul ass and eat up the ambient damage waves in the room. I never really had an issue doing either mission in a tengu. mwd, and a tank for the gas cloud...tengu burn through it pretty quick.
m3talc0re X Mercs of Vengeance 108	Posted - 2012.12.14 00:25:00 - [24] - Quote First off, stupid, uniformed people, yes I'm talking to you, please keep your ill informed opinions out of my thread, thanks. Also, I've been running lvl 4's for... oh, I dunno, 4 years or so now? I've got various ships, some spec'd for specific missions. As for Guristas not jamming your ships, you can't generalize every Guristas mission as the same. Intercept The Saboteurs ( think that's it) for example has almost no jamming. I can roll in there with a Golem or Kronos without anything helping my sensors and I'll maybe get jammed once, if that. Now try the next to last room in Dread Pirate when it's Guristas. There are 4 Guristas battleships that will keep you jammed and there is nothing you can do about it if your main dps is guns or missiles. Drones take foreeeever to kill them.
TehCloud Carnivore Company 11	Posted - 2012.12.14 01:20:00 - [25] - Quote I can't understand all those people saying L4s should be flown in a fleet. It's fun in a fleet but you're just rushing through them so fast. The Dread Pirate Scarlet mission really is a tougher one, if only Serpentis or Guristas would spawn you could fix that by having kin/therm resists but with Angel also in the pool and the last pocket also featuring lasers it's a bit stupid. But losing a Vargur in the last pocket? I don't even go there. I always kill scarlet at the first opportunity and then just clear the room if it's not to painful (Guristas). I'm not saying that you deserve to lose it though. But you always have to keep in mind that a Marauder and his terrible sensorstrength probably isn't the best choice for a Mission against Guristas. Especially after an NPC buff. Or at least fit ECCM. My Condor costs less than that module!
Crimeo Khamsi AirHogs Zulu People 62	Posted - 2012.12.14 01:22:00 - [26] - Quote m3talc0re X wrote: First off, stupid, uniformed people, yes I'm talking to you, please keep your ill informed opinions out of my thread, thanks. Also, I've been running lvl 4's for... oh, I dunno, 4 years or so now? I've got various ships, some spec'd for specific missions. As for Guristas not jamming your ships, you can't generalize every Guristas mission as the same. Intercept The Saboteurs ( think that's it) for example has almost no jamming. I can roll in there with a Golem or Kronos without anything helping my sensors and I'll maybe get jammed once, if that. Now try the next to last room in Dread Pirate when it's Guristas. There are 4 Guristas battleships that will keep you jammed and there is nothing you can do about it if your main dps is guns or missiles. Drones take foreeeever to kill them. For whoever asked, the follow fit is what I used all the time in Merc and Drone missions or ones that want an omnitank. I've also run Dread Pirate with it numerous times, without fail. This was the first. [Vargur, PVE - 800mm AC] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Tracking Enhancer II Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script 100MN Afterburner II Cap Recharger II 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L Small Tractor Beam II Salvager II Salvager II Large Capacitor Control Circuit II Large Capacitor Control Circuit I So by "There's nothing you can do about it" what you actually mean is "I didn't actually do ANYTHING about it, and then proceeded to get jammed?" There's not a single sensor backup array or ECCM on that boat... You're asking for a mission design change to fix a problem that there are already two kinds of modules for, implants for, AND a ship with native boosts for, none of which you seem to be using.
m3talc0re X Mercs of Vengeance 108	Posted - 2012.12.14 02:02:00 - [27] - Quote Crimeo, you are a complete moron and I've got all of your posts hidden now. Please shut up and keep your opinions to yourself when you're too stupid to even comprehend a topic. That's the thing though TehCloud, a) Marauders are supposed to be the ship to use in missions. They're kinda broken in this regard. and b) I've run the mission 100 times and it was never like this before. I've never even had Guristas in the last pocket at all before this one. What makes it even better, is the fact that in the kill mail, it says I was killed by a Blood Raider battleship that never was even in the pocket.
Galphii Clandestine Vector THE SPACE P0LICE 95	Posted - 2012.12.14 05:21:00 - [28] - Quote Missions are ancient and need a total revamp, and this is pretty much CCP's policy on elements of eve that need fixing - they won't just fix a couple of minor things, they get stuck right in and do the job properly. The downside to this is it'll take a while for them to get around to doing missions methinks. Until the, try doing minmatar missions - their ewar is target painting (lawl). Enjoy epic fantasty adventure? Check out my free ebook at www.aielundsaga.com/novels.html-á
nikon56 UnSkilleD Inc. Reverberation Project 15	Posted - 2012.12.14 14:36:00 - [29] - Quote honnestly, while i can see why OP is having an issue with the dread (or most generally some guristas involving mission), i don't unerstand ppl having issues with recons or other missions. i've done a lot of PVE, using megathron / Machariel / Loki / Maelstrom / tempest, and while some are pretty tricky with the T1 BS, only one was an issue with the Mach: world collide, loki as no issue soloing any LVL5 even in lowsec (0.2) the tuffest one can be soloed in a machariel with a not that expansive fitt (I.e hull + fit is around 1.3/1.5B) but maybe some need to learn how to draw pocket aggro (irrelevant in a loki or tengu, full sage aggro is a cakewalk in ANY lvl4)..... the only mission that are a bit painfull are the guristas one, because you get jammed really often, and even fitting any ECCM is of no effect, but it has never been a threat, i mean, pop the frigs and worst case senario, you'll have to W/O. and you have enought time to pop em whatever happen. if not, then your fit and / or skill need to be revised i mean almost most pve boat can bring 5 light drones to take care of the frigs..or fit launcher with FOF. ANY LVL4 is doable solo in a less than 1.5B ship, even in lowsec
Seranova Farreach DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale. 38	Posted - 2012.12.14 15:11:00 - [30] - Quote m3talc0re X wrote: I just lost my Vargur. Last room of Dread Pirate, All the dps caught up to me and I couldn't get it off me. My drones wouldn't engage the scam on their own. I couldn't do anything but watch. This is the first time I've ever had so much trouble with this mission. The first room was Angels, then all the rooms after were Guristas. I'm so pissed right now. thats a tough break.. i love my HAMgu can tank anything 950+ dps cold 700ms speed its my preshous wikkle baby. were you active tanking with medum / large booster? i prefered my shield tanked maurauder (golem) to be a capboosted badass XL boat. not tried XL ancills yet but vargur can get like 10k+ defence with dual ancil. and maybe swap cap recharger for booster. and the rigs for damage/falloff or just more cap amount or the rig to lower shield booster energy use (meanign less cap injections over time)

m3talc0re X Mercs of Vengeance 109	Posted - 2012.12.15 03:12:00 - [31] - Quote Someone was talking about the drones killing off frigs, which is well and good, assuming your drones actually do anything. As soon as I got into the pocket, the two elite cruisers jammed me out before I could even lock a frig. Drones were out but just orbited me. Never even attempted to attack anything that was jamming or scramming me. Vargur had an X-Large shield booster on it. I would normally use something else for Guristas, but every time before I've run this mission, there was only one room of Guristas and they were manageable.
Zee87 Black Lancers Ressurection 0	Posted - 2012.12.16 18:17:00 - [32] - Quote m3talc0re X wrote: First off, stupid, uniformed people, yes I'm talking to you, please keep your ill informed opinions out of my thread, thanks. Also, I've been running lvl 4's for... oh, I dunno, 4 years or so now? I've got various ships, some spec'd for specific missions. As for Guristas not jamming your ships, you can't generalize every Guristas mission as the same. Intercept The Saboteurs ( think that's it) for example has almost no jamming. I can roll in there with a Golem or Kronos without anything helping my sensors and I'll maybe get jammed once, if that. Now try the next to last room in Dread Pirate when it's Guristas. There are 4 Guristas battleships that will keep you jammed and there is nothing you can do about it if your main dps is guns or missiles. Drones take foreeeever to kill them. For whoever asked, the follow fit is what I used all the time in Merc and Drone missions or ones that want an omnitank. I've also run Dread Pirate with it numerous times, without fail. This was the first. [Vargur, PVE - 800mm AC] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Tracking Enhancer II Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script 100MN Afterburner II Cap Recharger II 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L Small Tractor Beam II Salvager II Salvager II Large Capacitor Control Circuit II Large Capacitor Control Circuit I That is actually pretty similar to how I have mine set up: [Vargur, Dark Clouds] Tracking Enhancer II Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Tracking Computer II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Heavy Capacitor Booster II Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster 800mm Repeating Artillery II 800mm Repeating Artillery II 800mm Repeating Artillery II 800mm Repeating Artillery II Drone Link Augmentor II Small Tractor Beam II Small Tractor Beam II Large Ancillary Current Router II Large Projectile Ambit Extension II (btw this fit is currently +2 and -0 on BC) Sometimes I'll switch out 1 gyrostab for another TE, or switch out shield hardeners. Just depends, but this is usually how I have it set up, and it has not failed me once. It absolutely kicks the crap out of every mission that I've thrown at it. Even the bonus room of Angel Extravaganza and the last part of Enemies Abound. As for Dread Pirate Scarlett, I can tank it, but I end up running out of cap boosters because of all the ECM, and usually just give up... Just too much ECM. I think the last time I played it, I was jammed for 15 minutes straight at one point, like a cruel joke. I ended up just warping out, going back to the agent, and canceling the mission. I'd hate to sacrifice DPS, range, or mobility on my ship.
Thor Kerrigan Guardians of Asceticism 329	Posted - 2012.12.16 23:46:00 - [33] - Quote m3talc0re X wrote: I just lost my Vargur. Last room of Dread Pirate, All the dps caught up to me and I couldn't get it off me. My drones wouldn't engage the scam on their own. I couldn't do anything but watch. This is the first time I've ever had so much trouble with this mission. The first room was Angels, then all the rooms after were Guristas. I'm so pissed right now. I "liked" your post... but not for the reasons you might think... Welcome to EVE, lowsec is that way --->, we have candy, lots of it.
Mallak Azaria GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1422	Posted - 2012.12.17 01:23:00 - [34] - Quote m3talc0re X wrote: I just lost my Vargur. Last room of Dread Pirate, All the dps caught up to me and I couldn't get it off me. My drones wouldn't engage the scam on their own. I couldn't do anything but watch. This is the first time I've ever had so much trouble with this mission. The first room was Angels, then all the rooms after were Guristas. I'm so pissed right now. Marauders have weak sensor stength. If ECM frustrates you that much, don't use Marauders. It's about time CCP stops catering to the lazy players with this sense of entitlement for fear of losing money. These aren't the people making the game better, these are the people wanting you to turn EVE in to a game that is like most other MMO's.
Vladimir Norkoff Income Redistribution Service 69	Posted - 2012.12.17 02:55:00 - [35] - Quote Well whatever ship the OP lost doesn't really matter. People lose ships all the time, nature of the game. But he is right that Gurista jamming does suck. Any other e-war you can just work around or tank thru. ECM on the other hand completely shuts you down. And that's pretty crappy gameplay not to be able to do anything in PvE. Not like you can move your ship around to mitigate the effects like you can with TPs, TDs, or RSDs. You just gotta sit there and wait. And wait. And wait. It's bad game design when you get down to it.
Asudem Asen of Asgard 33	Posted - 2012.12.18 02:03:00 - [36] - Quote If the Drone aggro would just disappear, it would be less a problem. But now, any way to defend yourself against those 'tards is broken. To balance this out, you should at least be able to shoot with your drones without having to lock. That way, drone boats would be useful again.
Kirkwood Ross AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing 7	Posted - 2012.12.18 04:03:00 - [37] - Quote NPC shouldn't have ECM. It should be replaced with a different type of E-War.
Thor Kerrigan Guardians of Asceticism 329	Posted - 2012.12.18 06:02:00 - [38] - Quote Kirkwood Ross wrote: NPC shouldn't have ECM. It should be replaced with a different type of E-War. It should be replaced by shield-RR
Eraza Fuzzyness Enterprizes 1	Posted - 2012.12.18 12:43:00 - [39] - Quote i frequently have this in some serpentis missions, a new group appears 80-120km away, and then sensor dampens me from 120km to 15km, and i can do nothing untill they stop, or come closer. it's really annoying, because it often adds several minutes of me doing NOTHING other then watching and waiting for npcs to fly closer
Asudem Asen of Asgard 33	Posted - 2012.12.18 12:47:00 - [40] - Quote Eraza wrote: i frequently have this in some serpentis missions, a new group appears 80-120km away, and then sensor dampens me from 120km to 15km, and i can do nothing untill they stop, or come closer, it's really annoying, because it often adds several minutes of me doing NOTHING other then watching and waiting for npcs to fly closer Confirmed. Especially Blockade L4 Serpentis is really ********. NPCs with E-War is not a challenge, its an annoyance. They should rather learn how to RR then to damp pilots into boredom.

Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy 265	Posted - 2012.12.18 13:06:00 - [41] - Quote I am happy too see people actually taking a risc to earn their isk... Hi-sec people earning lots of isk without no real consequence is a flawed Eve mechanism and drives up prices for cool stuff that deserved a place in pvp rather than sitting on bling bling carebear ships. I wish however the risc was implemented in another way.
Zee87 Black Lancers Ressurection 0	Posted - 2012.12.18 16:51:00 - [42] - Quote Thor Kerrigan wrote: m3talc0re X wrote: I just lost my Vargur. Last room of Dread Pirate, All the dps caught up to me and I couldn't get it off me. My drones wouldn't engage the scam on their own. I couldn't do anything but watch. This is the first time I've ever had so much trouble with this mission. The first room was Angels, then all the rooms after were Guristas. I'm so pissed right now. I "liked" your post... but not for the reasons you might think... Welcome to EVE, lowsec is that way --->, we have candy, lots of it. lol are you serious? of course you should expect tons of ecm and scrambling in low sec... from other players. that's pvp. we are not talking about pvp here. we are talking about HIGH SEC pve, vs NPC's. seriously, what is it with some of the ppl on these forums.
Kusum Fawn State War Academy Caldari State 233	Posted - 2012.12.18 17:43:00 - [43] - Quote It seems that people are having different experiences with drone aggro, are we sure that it is completely changed across all missions and pve experiences? Its all very well and easy to say stop QQ about missions but if fof deadspace tengu is the only counter to everything .... In guristas missions the old counter used to be drone boats, I could sail through WC using a domi or actually my kronos too.. but other guristas jam heavy missions i use drones mainly. now i cant put a flight of heavies out past 15km or they die before i can recall them. when there are four battleships jamming you at 50km its rather hard to target that frigate scramming and webbing you. light drones get killed at launch and never seem to attack anything useful. the lack of drone behavior options is rather appalling for a change to aggression as major as this. Wh space where the npc behavior was field tested, has a much different layout then Hisec missions. For one, the number of ships is much less in those pockets (per wave) and they are much more uniform from wave to wave then across level 4 missions. the choice of starting locations relative to spawns is also a major difference. many missions using accel gates do not give you the same choices so being scrammed webs and jammed on landing in a room is not uncommon. There does need to be some rebalance of missions in general to either match the way sleepers are, In isk for requiring fleet, or change the way that drones are controlled or agressed. Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Thor Kerrigan Guardians of Asceticism 330	Posted - 2012.12.18 17:58:00 - [44] - Quote Zee87 wrote: Thor Kerrigan wrote: m3talc0re X wrote: I just lost my Vargur. Last room of Dread Pirate, All the dps caught up to me and I couldn't get it off me. My drones wouldn't engage the scam on their own. I couldn't do anything but watch. This is the first time I've ever had so much trouble with this mission. The first room was Angels, then all the rooms after were Guristas. I'm so pissed right now. I "liked" your post... but not for the reasons you might think... Welcome to EVE, lowsec is that way --->, we have candy, lots of it. lol are you serious? of course you should expect tons of ecm and scrambling in low sec... from other players. that's pvp. we are not talking about pvp here. we are talking about HIGH SEC pve, vs NPC's. seriously, what is it with some of the ppl on these forums. In all seriousness, when it comes down to it, losing 1 Vargur while doing PVE is quite underwhelming for those who play outside the safe confines of highsec. Now that the OP experienced helplessness towards losing their ship, that brief moment between denial and acceptance of the loss we all experience when faced with an expensive loss, he might be ready to level up. Just sayin'
Zee87 Black Lancers Ressurection 0	Posted - 2012.12.18 23:13:00 - [45] - Quote Thor Kerrigan wrote: Zee87 wrote: Thor Kerrigan wrote: m3talc0re X wrote: I just lost my Vargur. Last room of Dread Pirate, All the dps caught up to me and I couldn't get it off me. My drones wouldn't engage the scam on their own. I couldn't do anything but watch. This is the first time I've ever had so much trouble with this mission. The first room was Angels, then all the rooms after were Guristas. I'm so pissed right now. I "liked" your post... but not for the reasons you might think... Welcome to EVE, lowsec is that way --->, we have candy, lots of it. lol are you serious? of course you should expect tons of ecm and scrambling in low sec... from other players. that's pvp. we are not talking about pvp here. we are talking about HIGH SEC pve, vs NPC's. seriously, what is it with some of the ppl on these forums. In all seriousness, when it comes down to it, losing 1 Vargur while doing PVE is quite underwhelming for those who play outside the safe confines of highsec. Now that the OP experienced helplessness towards losing their ship, that brief moment between denial and acceptance of the loss we all experience when faced with an expensive loss, he might be ready to level up. Just sayin' People enter who enter low-sec should be well aware of the risks... what you're saying is that people in high sec SHOULD have to deal the same risks as people in low-sec? Doesn't that kinda defeat the purpose of high sec vs low and null sec?
Thor Kerrigan Guardians of Asceticism 330	Posted - 2012.12.19 05:44:00 - [46] - Quote Zee87 wrote: People enter who enter low-sec should be well aware of the risks... what you're saying is that people in high sec SHOULD have to deal the same risks as people in low-sec? I'm not saying the OP should experience that, I am merely stating he DID experience it once. Nothing but a friendly invite to expand his horizons since he passed the initiation: losing an expensive ship and not rage-quitting.
Eraza Fuzzyness Enterprizes 1	Posted - 2012.12.19 13:12:00 - [47] - Quote Thor Kerrigan wrote: Zee87 wrote: People enter who enter low-sec should be well aware of the risks... what you're saying is that people in high sec SHOULD have to deal the same risks as people in low-sec? I'm not saying the OP should experience that, I am merely stating he DID experience it once. Nothing but a friendly invite to expand his horizons since he passed the initiation: losing an expensive ship and not rage-quitting. yeah, far far too many players rage quit at their first big loss a simple thought exercise can help, when you undock, consider your ship lost. is this an uncomfortable thought? then maybe you should fly something cheaper :) (this is a general thought, not directed at OP specifically) there is however, nothing as frustrating as seeing a ship loss coming minutes away, in PvE, and being helpless to stop it cant escape cant fight back and yet, dying takes an eternity
TheMercenaryKing StarFleet Enterprises Red Alliance 18	Posted - 2012.12.19 19:35:00 - [48] - Quote Crazy idea, how about using ECCM?
Zee87 Black Lancers Ressurection 0	Posted - 2012.12.20 01:32:00 - [49] - Quote TheMercenaryKing wrote: Crazy idea, how about using ECCM? This has been covered... It doesn't work well, there's more ECM coming at you than a single ECCM can counter. I guess you could replace other stuff in your mids with 2 or 3 ECCM's, but if it's a ship that shield tanks, it's not gonna work out very well. Also, this problem with ECM in this mission is not something that was introduced with Retribution... It's been a problem since before.
Asudem Aliastra Gallente Federation 34	Posted - 2012.12.20 01:52:00 - [50] - Quote ECCM never worked very well for me. In 0.0 Guristas sites I was sometimes permajammed for 5 minutes in a small Sanctum, my ship was a Tengu with ECCM (I remember having >60 sensor strenght). It changed when I had a drone boat alt with me and the NPCs had more targets to pick. So my experience is that ECCM is useless against NPCs. Never tried ECCM in HSec, but probably the same result in some/most missions.

Jiska Ensa Unour Heavy Industries 101	Posted - 2012.12.20 02:06:00 - [51] - Quote I just ran the Amarr Epic Arc because I was bored - I had to cross-train for a missile ship half-way through the arc because of the perma-tracking disruption, coupled with the "OMG LET'S KILL ALL DRONES ALWAYS!" attitude rats now take. A little ewar here and there is fine but they literally were on me the entire mission. I had to fly in point-blank with mega pulse lasers since Scorch range went from 60km to 2km. Something feels wrong here...
m3talc0re X Mercs of Vengeance 112	Posted - 2012.12.20 02:51:00 - [52] - Quote Zee, they're f'ing idiots man.. There's some reasonable and intelligent people on these forums, sure, but they're sparse :P Blockade vs Serps, god I hated that one. I forget what I was in at the time, I think it was a Tengu, but I was dampened down to like 8km. I was like, are you f'ing kidding me... -_- Also, some of you are on this holier than thou high horse and need to step your little asses down. I'm not so upset I lost the Vargur as much as I'm miffed that the situation was allowed to exist. I've lost many ships, this wasn't the first and wont be the last. I don't really care about the isk hit as much as, I guess, sentimental value attached to ships like you would a car. Kusum - That's IF your drones even work. I sat there getting pissed my drones wouldn't even aggro. Yeah, they made a massive change and didn't bother to fix drones to compensate. Nice. I haven't run a mission or played the game really in a month now, so I wouldn't know first hand. But I've seen a lot of people talking about drones getting raped now. Kinda makes salvage drones a moot point I guess. Thor - Your assumption, and we all know why we don't assume things, right? is based on that you think I haven't gone into low-sec? Nevermind the fact that I've gone there regularly and still do at times. I've also lived in null various times. And I've lost many, expensive ships. This is why we don't assume things. You realize I've been playing for like 6 or 7 years now, huh? Jiska - Just remember, CCP are going to make that ewar effect missiles, also. So they wont be hitting jack sh*t either. Just on another side note, I was doing WC in Amarr space one time. Mine where Sansha vs Angels. If you've done it, you know there's that Sansha battlestation there there in the mission. I went through into that pocket and my ship stopped like, right inside that stations cradle arm thing going around it. I started taking massive damage and couldn't tank it, I was like, wtf. Then realized I had grabbed the wrong hardeners. Not only was I tanked wrong, but I was in the middile of that station thing. So I had to fly out and away from it so I could align and warp. Only problem was, I was quadruple+ webbed. Omg I moved so slow trying to escape. I finally got out.. I got out with I think it was 14% hull left. In a Nightmare. I came unglued XD
Thor Kerrigan Guardians of Asceticism 332	Posted - 2012.12.20 05:39:00 - [53] - Quote m3talc0re X wrote: Thor - Your assumption, and we all know why we don't assume things, right? is based on that you think I haven't gone into low-sec? Nevermind the fact that I've gone there regularly and still do at times. I've also lived in null various times. And I've lost many, expensive ships. This is why we don't assume things. You realize I've been playing for like 6 or 7 years now, huh? I have lived in both high, low and null. Approaching the 4th year. Have done activities covering all kinds of professions, save POS management and T2 production (invention). Living in w-space is on the less than a year to-do list. See I was under the impression you had been playing for years mostly running missions and that you were bitter they required new tactics. It must be your condescending tone that gave me this impression, please forgive me.
m3talc0re X Mercs of Vengeance 112	Posted - 2012.12.20 06:45:00 - [54] - Quote That's good for you, I've also done it all, except for indy crap, I die of boredom trying anything indy related... And no, I don't have a condescending tone, you're just butthurt your assumptions made you look like an ass.
Thor Kerrigan Guardians of Asceticism 332	Posted - 2012.12.20 06:56:00 - [55] - Quote m3talc0re X wrote: That's good for you, I've also done it all, except for indy crap, I die of boredom trying anything indy related... And no, I don't have a condescending tone, you're just butthurt your assumptions made you look like an ass. You just keep digging that hole
Asudem Aliastra Gallente Federation 34	Posted - 2012.12.20 17:32:00 - [56] - Quote Thor Kerrigan wrote: [quote=m3talc0re X] EDIT: From dec 19 patch notes: NPC NPCs will now only target drones in their size category. Elite frigates and cruisers NPCs will go for small drones and above. Frigates and Cruisers NPCs will go for medium drones and above. Battleship NPCs will go for large drones. Doesnt change the issue, its a drop in the bucket.
Thor Kerrigan Guardians of Asceticism 332	Posted - 2012.12.20 20:03:00 - [57] - Quote Asudem wrote: Thor Kerrigan wrote: [quote=m3talc0re X] EDIT: From dec 19 patch notes: NPC NPCs will now only target drones in their size category. Elite frigates and cruisers NPCs will go for small drones and above. Frigates and Cruisers NPCs will go for medium drones and above. Battleship NPCs will go for large drones. Doesnt change the issue, its a drop in the bucket. It affects the issue by taking the point away from your ship, either by killing the frig or by collecting aggro.
Call Rollard K For Kill 9	Posted - 2012.12.20 20:34:00 - [58] - Quote I do agree the Guristas Jammers are very strong. Even if I have a sensor increasing module to reduce being jammed I still get jammed a few times. Maybe CCP needs to reduce the strength of the jamming a little.
Seranova Farreach DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale. 45	Posted - 2012.12.20 22:30:00 - [59] - Quote Nothing to see here.. just another whiner.
Asudem Aliastra Gallente Federation 34	Posted - 2012.12.21 03:00:00 - [60] - Quote Call Rollard wrote: I do agree the Guristas Jammers are very strong. Even if I have a sensor increasing module to reduce being jammed I still get jammed a few times. Maybe CCP needs to reduce the strength of the jamming a little. I noticed that faction BS are much better against Guristas jammers. It becomes an exception to be jammed in my vindicator, but my Proteus or Tengu can be permajammed for several minutes... Seranova Farreach wrote: Nothing to see here.. just another whiner. As if whining about whiners makes you something else. Kinda silly, he?

m3talc0re X Mercs of Vengeance 112	Posted - 2012.12.21 03:17:00 - [61] - Quote Don't feed the trolls, they're morons. Also, two more people on my block list on these forums.
Thor Kerrigan Guardians of Asceticism 332	Posted - 2012.12.21 11:31:00 - [62] - Quote m3talc0re X wrote: Don't feed the trolls, they're morons. Also, two more people on my block list on these forums. By reading this reply, you have now failed even harder than when you lost the Vargur to NPCs in highsec.
Eraza Fuzzyness Enterprizes 2	Posted - 2012.12.21 12:45:00 - [63] - Quote here's another thought, why are npcs also nearly immune to Ewar they all spam? i think as a rule of thumb, sensor strength of npc ships is about double that of player ones(if i remember correctly) in the blockade, i get targeted by frigates over 120km away, and then some of those frigs sensor damp me to nothing? i dont think sensor damps work that far out, and really? can i have a FRIGATE with a 120km+ targeting range?


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