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Lacero Callrisian
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Posted - 2005.04.13 14:24:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Colthor
Edited by: Colthor on 13/04/2005 14:11:02A friend of mine started playing a couple of months ago and it reminded me how flying 15km every jump in your 200m/s Ibis is really boring.
Instas are for wimps :)
But I guess not everyone finds the market as interesting as me, the pause as you jump really gets in the way of my trading so I'm glad it takes so long to get to the gate.
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Dukath
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Posted - 2005.04.13 15:28:00 -
[32]
Solution to alt scouts:
1) only one character per account can be in space. That way they'll always have to dock their scouts each time they want to use another character. This at least would limit the use of alt scouts to systems with stations in it.
2) disable scanner on pods and shuttles
3) reduce agility of newbie ships. Against the NPCs newbies fight agility really is not a problem.
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ALTNAME
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Posted - 2005.04.13 15:45:00 -
[33]
Edited by: ALTNAME on 13/04/2005 15:45:40
CCP wants battleships out of 0.0, due to the belief that it is not fair battleships can defeat smaller ships without a group.
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Thyro
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Posted - 2005.04.13 15:53:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Thyro on 13/04/2005 15:53:53
In my opinion the 30 minutes map could be changed to 1000 hours map... in 2 words "simple remove".
Whats the point of knowing how many ships in space next system or 50 systems from where I stand
The map only allows griefs to fly around picking up alone vitims.
On fleet battles... well each part will have to have one or more scouts (even before 30m map change) that was a common practice...
So whats the point of a useless map except to giving griffers a tool to gank anyone that they see flying around alone or in a small group.
Simply remove that useless thing and make SPACE... SPACE ... unknown factor.
There are no good excuses not to see it removed at all... and that will also allow the movement into and through the 0.0 space
if Empires want to control space. Empires will have to have scouts or patrols to cover their "claimed space"
but no you DEVS give Shock systems + star map that shows how many ships are in space therefore nulling any attempts of movement into and through 0.0 space.
Simple remove that starmap option!
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Zandramus
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Posted - 2005.04.13 15:55:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Zandramus on 13/04/2005 15:56:44
Well this is how I feel about the local chat.
People in local should not show untill they are within range of your scanner and can be seen from your scanner.
someone jumping into local at a gate 100 au away should not show up in the local channel to you until they are within a few au of you and can be seen by the scanner.
cloaked ships should dissapear from the local channel when they cloak just like they dissapear from the scanner.
if someone talks in local channel well then that is a dead give away, but they should not be shown there if you cannot detect them using the scanner.
the local channel should not be a gimme on detecting when an enemy is near, develop deployable scanners to scan farther out than the on board scanners. think of the fun when the scanner info stops coming in for a group of scanners. this game could be so much more suspensefull.
Zandramus
Zandramus
Parking Violations Officer
Geminate Division
S.A.S
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Koda
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Posted - 2005.04.13 15:56:00 -
[36]
If the map works the way its supposed to I'm all for it. F10 made scouting useless and people lazy.
Tracking an enemy fleet should not be as easy as getting a weather report.
--------------
Share the love in the SNIGG Forums
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Twaddle
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Posted - 2005.04.13 16:04:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Dukath
Solution to alt scouts:
1) only one character per account can be in space. That way they'll always have to dock their scouts each time they want to use another character. This at least would limit the use of alt scouts to systems with stations in it.
This bit I really don't like. I can quite possibly end up having to log in space, even more so with the new map updates. When that happens I'd like to be able to actually use my other trained character on this account.
I can see what you're trying to do with this, but I'm sure I can't be the only one that doesn't just have 1 character and 2 utility slots on an account.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.04.14 01:18:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Oveur
Excellent! I'm excited to see the results of the weekend with the new map.
It's allready apparent, Oveur, from the analysis I run (purely using killboard.net - sure it's highly subjective, but the differences are quite startling).
Same effect as breaking the map - kills slow down. Considerably. And a LOT more ships are ganked.
Going back to IRREGULAR updates as pre-exodus would be ideal. The map was USEFUL, but not TRUSTWORTHY.
Add a module to let players HIDE from the map, and make a T2 BS ("support BS") special or a PoS scanner UNHIDE those people. But make them ACTIVELY hide.
Oh, and I can catch shuttles in my Claw. Reflexes ++.
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2005.04.14 01:34:00 -
[39]
s'good change.
30min seems like a lot, but only if you take into consideration how far you can move on instas in 30 minutes. Once instas are gone, it'll be a bit more reasonable.
This is a good transition, because a lot of pvpers and people in general rely on it, but in the end it needs to be removed entirely and replaced with something based upon new ships (interdictors) and starbases.
Also, the probes got changed to a 3D spherical scanning algorithm, yes. However, I tested it and there is still no way to find some deadspace locations.
For example, I had my agent give me a rogue drone harassment, it was only 8au from the nearest planet but it was slightly off towards nothingness. Even 1.1au out of the system "bounds" makes it impossible to scan down without the help of observator probes. The new scan time bonuses are great, but the base 300 seconds is way too much. I hope we can try it out with something like 200 seconds instead.
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
"Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
Lygos
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Posted - 2005.04.14 01:49:00 -
[40]
Idea to make Mining Ships have more purpose:
Mining ships, Industrial/Transport ships and Pods no longer affect 'pilots in space' on map.
Fairs fair if you ask me. If the miners can't properly see pirates, pirates shouldn't be able to properly see them.
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Cylynex
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Posted - 2005.04.14 03:03:00 -
[41]
Nice step in the right direction. Next step should be to remove it altogether, maybe just keep it so you could see pilots in space in systems bordering the one you are in or something. There really is no reason for a map to be all-seeing and all-knowing, even on a 30 min delay. If you want to find targets, get in your ship and fly around and find them instead of just following the blips. Or god forbid, do something else other than chase random people around and gun them down just for giggles?
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Lygos
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Posted - 2005.04.14 03:15:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Lygos on 14/04/2005 13:02:23
Well, pilots in space does serve some purpose. It (allegedly) assists and promotes fighter encounters, legitimized conflict, and uh.. blob maneuvering.
Now it just means that squads can't deploy warp bubbles without other people seeing them. Ganks should be avoidable and encounters will come from movement along highways, which is good.
Honestly, I think deployable infrastructure, and a reinforced NEED for conquerable stations at least to serve in long term logistics. (Conquerables with upkeep costs of course.. damn freeloaders) Then everyone has a clear target.
One thing at a time though.
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Karazaan
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Posted - 2005.04.14 04:16:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Species 8472
It is great
for me because i fly solo usually
But it does affect alot of things like where to attack your target etc or if you have incoming so what are your views ???
I think it should be like 10-15 mins not 30\
Personaly, I would remove the option completely because even 4 hours would be border in my opinions.
On an aspect of some rogue small corps going into 0.0 for one afternoon to find the promise land. I mean even if they pass the blockade alive, they will not be like hunters that can move a lot, they have to settle somewhere for like 3 or 4 hours mining and having fun. Then they will be very visible thus pirates will be attracted to them.
If nobody know they are there, who is it bothering? And yes if a scout or someone is seeing them, fine, they are found and trouble will arrive but at least they have the stealth factor on their side.
Show pilots in space is mostly use to help the differents blob procreate. When a blob's eye see another blob gathering strenght on the map in low space, they are attracted to it because they want to merge and create their child (Lag). Sure they are always incompatible and so fighting result from the failed merge.
So it will only help reduce blob strenght/size with more groups scattered ready to fight on a moments notice... Like Fireman, spread thru the city ready to strike (but they can call help if it seem the fire will last long enough and there is no trouble elsewhere.) |
Golden Ratio
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Posted - 2005.04.14 05:03:00 -
[44]
Removing pilots from 0.0 local channel unless they talk actually HELPS miners and npcers, and makes it HARDER for pvpers, yet at the same time making the game more interesting for everyone.
Just wanted to clear that up.
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2005.04.14 05:51:00 -
[45]
I think it should be 3 hours at least.
Convert Stations
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Ra'Ken
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Posted - 2005.04.14 06:10:00 -
[46]
Remove this option completely!
Instead add player short/mid/long-term beacons, radar stations or logistic support cruisers with scan equipment as it was proposed before.
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0seeker0
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Posted - 2005.04.14 08:06:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Lygos
Idea to make Mining Ships have more purpose:
Mining ships, Industrial/Transport ships and Pods no longer affect 'pilots in space' on map.
Fairs fair if you ask me. If the miners can't properly see pirates, pirates shouldn't be able to properly see them.
Yeah, what she said.
Character "Widescreen" is a scammer; beware.
Check my bio for a list of known scammers.
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Tholarim
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Posted - 2005.04.14 08:54:00 -
[48]
Well there's stuff about the map now that i do and do not like.
Like:
- you'll never know what's next door, easier to entrap some ppl that might be reluctant to fight. So potential action around every corner.
Dislike:
- Even a blob of 20 pilots moving on insta's will never show on the map. This was tested yesterday. So infact big fleets won't show unless they sty in the same system for a very long time. I think it's ok for 2-3 pilots travelling not to show. But 20 or more should show in one way opr another.
- Finding targets. As a pvp'er you move to where ever the blips on the map are. But most of those blips are on the move and 9 outta 10 times you anticipate their movement. Yersterday i found myself without any decent blips to go check out. So you end up moving around without a target and actually finding nothing to kill.
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Species 8472
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Posted - 2005.04.14 11:49:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Species 8472 on 14/04/2005 11:49:46
I agree with Thoralim even though he is my enemy :)
10- 15 mins or dont even have a map at all not 30 mins
How can someone find enemy for example in curse region and its borders there are like thousands upon thousands of systems there
It would take me a week to just go to every system in just 1 region trying to find potential targets.
It really makes it easy for the care bears now
Alot of pple will resort to gate camping out of major systems and we all know how exciting that is :)
"The Weak Will Perish". |
jamesw
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Posted - 2005.04.14 11:57:00 -
[50]
The way I see it, travel is essentially undetectable, this means that PvP and engagements will centre around areas of value - stations, POS etc.
This is where the soft targets are, and the forces protecting them will eventually learn to stick around and defend.
For tracking big fleet movements, pvp corps will have to have scouts on patrol on the various pipes in and out of their present area of ops.
With the map this way (or with no map), its sort of the only way I can see things going.
--
jamesw
Rubra Libertas Militia
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
I fly a dominix, its like a portable blob in a can
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Karazaan
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Posted - 2005.04.14 16:54:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Tholarim
Yersterday i found myself without any decent blips to go check out. So you end up moving around without a target and actually finding nothing to kill.
Which bring me to the other question, don't you think that now that you don't see the blips around, there might be in fact more people around?
I would hope for more people venturing out there and thus you finding more targets than you would normally.
It's simple math, how many people online at one time? How many people that would like to go BUT don't like the banner (easy target here) following them on the map?!? There is so many system, they are bound to find a nice place and take the risk of meeting something. But does'nt want a 'To Kill' tag showing the whole universe on the map.
More people out there would only help your fun afternoon as you would have more chance to stumble on people. Problem is the ones that have the bigger wish or reason to go very far are thoses mining, yet, they will be the first one to show up on any timed map options... |
Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2005.04.14 17:03:00 -
[52]
Scouting FTW!!! 
I like it.
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Ranger 1
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Posted - 2005.04.14 17:47:00 -
[53]
So far I like the changes. I think its interesting that it gives the advantage to the attacker, since the defender is likely not moving and will show up like a light bulb on the map. Of course, if the defender is wise and has scouts out, there is no reason why he can't launch a preemptive strike while the enemy is perhaps spread out traveling to the fight.
It just means the wise pilot, or fleet commander, will only use the map for the most general of strategic purposes. For informed tactical moves he will rely first and foremost on his scouts... as he should. Or perhaps on the reports of friendly locals who live near an alliances' borders, a factor often ignored by a large alliance.
Kill the enemy, and break their toys. |
Species 8472
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Posted - 2005.04.15 10:01:00 -
[54]
Simple do we have no map or reduce it to 10 -15 mins wtf is 30 mins\
"The Weak Will Perish". |
Matthew
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Posted - 2005.04.15 10:30:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Thyro
but no you DEVS give Shock systems + star map that shows how many ships are in space therefore nulling any attempts of movement into and through 0.0 space.
Erm, the map actually helps movement through space, at least with the new averaging. If you're constantly moving, you'll hardly show up on the map at all. It's only when you decide to pitch the tents that your presence on the map really becomes visible. And if you plan on setting up shop in a single place in 0.0, then you should be prepared to defend that spot from all-comers, or move from it when threatened.
Originally by: Zandramus
People in local should not show untill they are within range of your scanner and can be seen from your scanner.
someone jumping into local at a gate 100 au away should not show up in the local channel to you until they are within a few au of you and can be seen by the scanner.
Are you talking about the identity of the pilot, or the mere fact he exists? Hiding the fact that someone is in the system would, I feel, make scouting a bit too hard. After all, do you really want to have to scan entire systems only to find out no-one is there at all? As you can tell, I'm not in favour of blanking out the presence of a pilot.
What I would go for, is blanking out that pilot's identity. So your scout jumps into the system, they can see theres X players there, but has no idea who they are, what they're flying etc. Hence, the scout still has to work to identify the threat, but doesn't have to waste half the night scanning to find out if there even is a threat.
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Also, the probes got changed to a 3D spherical scanning algorithm, yes. However, I tested it and there is still no way to find some deadspace locations.
For example, I had my agent give me a rogue drone harassment, it was only 8au from the nearest planet but it was slightly off towards nothingness. Even 1.1au out of the system "bounds" makes it impossible to scan down without the help of observator probes.
Yeah, this is something that really needs fixing. The whole design of the scanner probes, including the 1AU "bleed-over" was intended to make sure you could be scanned from anywhere. BM's in outlying agent missions break this completely. It surely wouldn't be hard to add constraints to the agent missions random location generator to keep them within the system "bounds".
Originally by: Lygos
Idea to make Mining Ships have more purpose:
Mining ships, Industrial/Transport ships and Pods no longer affect 'pilots in space' on map.
Interesting idea. Maybe it could be expanded further to make "pilots in space" more a "current threat level" indicator. So, each ship is given a sort of "map signature radius" based on ship type and fittings. So a battleship with T2 guns would have quite a large map signature radius. A shuttle would have practically zero map radius.
So, you see a small blob on the map. You know going to that system could be risky, but nothing more. The blob could be 20 mining barges, 5 interceptors, or a lone battleship (numbers subject to balancing).
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Rawthorm
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Posted - 2005.04.15 18:15:00 -
[56]
Maybe CCP should put a system where you can deploy survilence satilites in safespots and such.
This would give your corp indepth and realtime intel on any system your willing to put the isk into setting up.
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Temi
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Posted - 2005.04.15 20:33:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Temi on 15/04/2005 20:33:29
Originally by: Matthew
Yeah, this is something that really needs fixing. The whole design of the scanner probes, including the 1AU "bleed-over" was intended to make sure you could be scanned from anywhere. BM's in outlying agent missions break this completely. It surely wouldn't be hard to add constraints to the agent missions random location generator to keep them within the system "bounds".
changing the location of mission bookmarks woudl not really change it all that mutch, cause there already excists lots of bookmarks outside this 'area' you speak of :o
rather just 'fix' the probes :o
Spelling errors ahoy.. |
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