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RollinDutchMasters	Posted - 2005.04.14 16:47:00 - [31] Dear Whiny Dumbass, You are now discovering what every other turret race has ever had to deal with. Welcome to the new and improved EVE. God help you if you have to rely on your wits instead of overboosted weapons. Sincerely, Smarter Then You In Syndicate Originally by: Sochin CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
Eviljohn	Posted - 2005.04.14 17:37:00 - [32] before the patch my megas couldent hit **** inside of 5 km lol now with target painter and webber u can hit a interceptor sat on your haul stop moaning and start blasting megas are uberised now
Malken	Posted - 2005.04.14 17:45:00 - [33] i did a 694 dmg 26k outside my optimal with my megapulse2, not so bad. the only problem as i see it are the small pulse guns, they are totally useless now Originally by: Graelyn "We're at war with you, and you FIRED on us! I am so telling CONCORD!" Quote: [18:46:36] Weebear > WTS Electric Golf Cart, 1 careful owner. Phone Rome 555 6567
Dionysus Davinci	Posted - 2005.04.14 17:49:00 - [34] Originally by: DarkZaion AMARR IS WAY TOO OVER NERF F$%@ING SUCKS Thank god, maybe I can stand a chance when I try out range your guns or outdamage or even hold a tank.
SwitchBl4d3	Posted - 2005.04.14 18:23:00 - [35] Originally by: Verone Calm down dear, it's only a battleship. but not a real battleship "Teh lord of Nonni"
F'nog	Posted - 2005.04.14 19:52:00 - [36] Originally by: DarkZaion today i did a test i jumped on my geddon fitted with 8 heat sink t2 + mega pulse 1 + fitted with radio (lvl 4 large laser skill, shparpshooter lvl 3, surgical lvl3) 1st 37km range WTF! 2nd it only did ~50 damge to a unharden apoc!!!! WTF AT 20KM i was like u sure u dont have harderns on he goes NO !! AMARR IS WAY TOO OVER NERF F$%@ING SUCKS You do realize there are other crystals than Radio, right? Try fitting them.
Sleazy Cabbie	Posted - 2005.04.14 20:09:00 - [37] Everybody in the game has access to the same equipment, only the portraits change. Adapt and Overcome.
KompleX	Posted - 2005.04.14 20:23:00 - [38] Originally by: Braaage Your Mega Pulse Laser I barely scratches Supreme Drone Parasite, causing 8.5 damage. Average damage was about 10 - Apoc/Arma are redundant so far as L4 combat missions go... This is entertainement! You are retarded, and keep on whining please - It's good fun, really.
SlaneeshZ	Posted - 2005.04.14 20:28:00 - [39] Thinking about this: I guess I can live with shorter small pulse range. They just need to fix small beams' PG reqs and everything should be okay. ---- A true player does feel no need to remind himself or fellow players that it is just a game.
Alyth	Posted - 2005.04.14 20:30:00 - [40] I know.....why not set pulse back to their old range but boost autos and blasters up to that range too. Then see how people like that because thats the only other way to balance the old ones besides giving them beam tracking. Long range = low tracking, less damage Short range = high tracking, high damage Now what are pulse again?
Fuse	Posted - 2005.04.14 20:30:00 - [41] Originally by: RollinDutchMasters Dear Whiny Dumbass, You are now discovering what every other turret race has ever had to deal with. Welcome to the new and improved EVE. God help you if you have to rely on your wits instead of overboosted weapons. Sincerely, Smarter Then You In Syndicate Dear Troll sonofabich, Get bent. 0.o It's not you... no wait it is you.
Nicholai Pestot	Posted - 2005.04.14 20:52:00 - [42] Can we attempt to have at least one discussion about pulse lasers that doesnt slowly degrade into personal insults? It just makes the insulters look very immature, and their point less valid. I have supped the milk of human kindness, and discovered i am lactose intolerant
Safaomae	Posted - 2005.04.14 20:55:00 - [43] Edited by: Safaomae on 14/04/2005 20:56:47 Originally by: Nicholai Pestot Can we attempt to have at least one discussion about pulse lasers that doesnt slowly degrade into personal insults? It just makes the insulters look very immature, and their point less valid. I agree... Not ever having flown any battleship of any kind... but can you not just move to within range and adjust your tactics and setup accordingly? of course, in their nature, pulse lasers should be shorter range, this patch recified this. of course, it did not solve the problem that beam lasers take too much grid to fit on what everyone seems to want as a "decent" setup. so maybe, the problem lies not in the pulse lasers, but in a small detail of the beam lasers?
H0ot	Posted - 2005.04.14 21:03:00 - [44] My 2 ISK on this is that CCP went a little overboard when they nerfed Radio aswell as Pulse Lasers. Personally I am going down the road of Beam Laser Specialization and Radio on it self was fine, if anything, from what I have seen so far Megathrons make a way better sniper (both NPC and PvP) than an Apoc with Mega Beams ever would. I agree that Pulses were lame, a Tier 1 Gank ship should NOT be able to take a Tanked Raven down in approx. 13 seconds. I'd rather see the optimal of Pulses be brought down even further if that means they leave Radio Frequency Crystals alone. Guess its too late for that now.. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
CopeLand	Posted - 2005.04.14 21:31:00 - [45] Ok i have 1 question. Before the patch i logged off in Armageddon with a fit id been using. After patch i log in and the fit doesnt work anymore cause i dont have enough cpu for it(one gun doesnt online) Now i was pretty sure they werent gonna nerf the ships themselves nor any cpu/pg of the weapons Can someone inform me why this is pls
Skelator	Posted - 2005.04.14 21:35:00 - [46] Geez I hate when the "Flavor of the month" crowd gets upset and starts whining.. Here is a Novel idea for you.. THINK.. Experiment .. Change your Flavor of the month setups. You can do it I have faith in you. They have us Surrounded again.. the Poor Bastards
Alyth	Posted - 2005.04.14 21:38:00 - [47] Originally by: H0ot My 2 ISK on this is that CCP went a little overboard when they nerfed Radio aswell as Pulse Lasers. Personally I am going down the road of Beam Laser Specialization and Radio on it self was fine, if anything, from what I have seen so far Megathrons make a way better sniper (both NPC and PvP) than an Apoc with Mega Beams ever would. I agree that Pulses were lame, a Tier 1 Gank ship should NOT be able to take a Tanked Raven down in approx. 13 seconds. I'd rather see the optimal of Pulses be brought down even further if that means they leave Radio Frequency Crystals alone. Guess its too late for that now.. The way I see it radios did too much damage for their ammo type. They are the longest range ammo but theres no way you'd see iron or carbonised lead doing that damage at the ranges gankageddons operate at, even with that amount of damage mods.
Doomsayer	Posted - 2005.04.14 21:45:00 - [48] I still use the same setup on my retribution with 4 Med Pulse II's. Instead of whining I just get closer to my target. Heh, now I have a reason to fit gamma and multifrequency crystals. OMG I'm a genius!!
Gierling	Posted - 2005.04.14 22:00:00 - [49] That is why pulses were nerfed. That is why radio was nerfed, although it should be noted that 3 other crystals were boosted as well. Bastards we are lest Bastards we become.
Fuse	Posted - 2005.04.14 22:15:00 - [50] Edited by: Fuse on 14/04/2005 22:16:05 Originally by: Gierling That is why pulses were nerfed. That is why radio was nerfed, although it should be noted that 3 other crystals were boosted as well. Those graphs do not tell the complete story. They don't factor natural resistance and ammo damage types. Thanks allot devs. 0.o It's not you... no wait it is you.
Gierling	Posted - 2005.04.14 22:20:00 - [51] These graphs are without ship bonuses against a ship with normalized resistances. (Normalized meaning averaged) Bastards we are lest Bastards we become.
Lorth	Posted - 2005.04.14 22:27:00 - [52] I am utterly amazed at why people complain about this. Sorry, but those of you who felt that the old pulse lasers where anything close to balanced, or fair, need to have yur head examined. Really, you've been playing with the best damageing gun, with the best range, and the best tracking. To think that they should have remained that way is utterly dumb. Stop complaining, pulse are not not all that bad. It just makes you look dumb really.
Arud	Posted - 2005.04.14 22:34:00 - [53] people! screw the megapulse, stop looking at the damn mega pulse yes the crystals needed a fix, I agree with that totaly but the pulse nerf nerfed the whole line! before patch the amarr interceptors were in line with most of the other interceptors before patch the amarr assault ships were in line with most of the other assault ships before the patch heavy assault ships were in line with most of the other heavy assault ships before the patch all those well balanced ships were using pulses number 1, they offered decent range number 2, they could be fitted within reason number 3, they offered decent damage number 4, they offered decent tracking number 5, it was bloody hell impossible to fit beams now the big pulses got the nerf because of the gankageddon which just happened to affect the whole line of other well balanced ships its like cutting one ball of each amarrian * I like ranting about this
Gierling	Posted - 2005.04.14 22:36:00 - [54] ok we Hybrid users just got some love on fitting, so I have no problem looking at the small beams fitting needs. Your still not getting your uber pulses back. Bastards we are lest Bastards we become.
Fuse	Posted - 2005.04.14 22:44:00 - [55] Originally by: Gierling These graphs are without ship bonuses against a ship with normalized resistances. (Normalized meaning averaged) Just how do you "average" resistance when projectiles can do every type of damage there is? Does this "average" calculate EM resistance and Thermal vs. Explosive and Kinetic and Thermal and EM? Does it factor the fact that you can not tank well against three types of damage. Three different damage types are an attribute of projectiles. You can not realy claim an average because of the complex scenarios involved. This nerf strikes at the core of Amarr training from battleship five to pulse specialization 4. It not only attacks that but the implications will be worse for the players of areas that have laser NPCs to the value of the pulse lasers and the owners of the Pulse II bpo(s). It is a thoughtless lame half thought up nerf and it hurts allot of people in more ways then just in damage. It is a totally utter thoughtless ill planned move. 0.o It's not you... no wait it is you.
Gierling	Posted - 2005.04.14 22:49:00 - [56] Edited by: Gierling on 14/04/2005 22:52:20 A quick lesson in math. TO normalize resistances, you take the racial resistance levels of all the races add them and divide. For example, if the thermal resist for the races shields is 40%, 35%, 35%, 10% we can say the normalized level of thermal resistance in the game is 40+35+35+10/4 = 30% Now thats an incredible simplification as I think Hammers calculation uses each ship specifically, so its a data set with dozens of values. As far as Damage, you simply do the same. Going down the list and normalizing. Theoretical values would look like this: Lasers: 7 EM, 6 Thermal. Hybrids: 6 Kinetic, 5 Thermal Projectiles: 1 EM, 4 Kinetic, 4 Thermal, 3 Explosive Bastards we are lest Bastards we become.
Fuse	Posted - 2005.04.14 22:53:00 - [57] Originally by: Gierling A quick lesson in math. TO normalize resistances, you take the racial resistance levels of all the races add them and divide. For example, if the thermal resist for the races shields is 40%, 35%, 35%, 10% we can say the normalized level of thermal resistance in the game is 40+35+35+10/4 = 30% Now thats an incredible simplification as I think Hammers calculation uses each ship specifically, so its a data set with dozens of values. A quick lesson in resistance they are never equal because people tank differently so you can not normalize them across the board. 0.o It's not you... no wait it is you.
Leitari	Posted - 2005.04.14 22:56:00 - [58] well, I say you can keep your crystals like you had them before except you get the 10 second reload time on lasers just like the rest of ammo reloading has. Here, Only the silent survive.
Gierling	Posted - 2005.04.14 22:58:00 - [59] This is against base resistance. Hardeners may or may not be fitted and thus aren't grounds for a fair comparison. Bastards we are lest Bastards we become.
Cheim	Posted - 2005.04.14 23:15:00 - [60] Originally by: Fuse A quick lesson in resistance they are never equal because people tank differently so you can not normalize them across the board. If they tank normally (single hardeners for weakest resists), EM damage is great. If they don't tank normally (double shield EM hardeners or a single armor EM hardener) it's probably because they're afraid of lasers. Overpowered lasers. The resistance argument doesn't help energy turrets.

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