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If CCP wont stop logging why dont we?

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Hue Jorgon	Posted - 2005.04.15 16:44:00 - [31] Edited by: Hue Jorgon on 15/04/2005 16:45:28 Logging to save yourself has long been a fround upon reaction in ATUK. Of course you can never really tell if it was a logoff or a crash unfortunately. [color=red][size=8]"Insignificance is counteracted by excessive presence!"[/color][/size]
insuperable	Posted - 2005.04.15 16:49:00 - [32] If anyone logs off in my corp to save their ship then ill most likely pod them or enforce some sort of punishment. I dont even like logging off because your outnumbered in local. I prefer to get our gang out even if theres a high chance of losing pilots. Interesting... Gallery
Alowishus	Posted - 2005.04.15 17:07:00 - [33] I've crashed during combat. I died anyway. Simple as this: If your ship is scrambled it should not disappear or warp away, log off or CTD. If you're not tackled then your ship should warp away normally, taking mass and agility into account. I don't care if someone warps in a huge blob and instantly logs off, as long as their ship takes the same ammount of time to warp away as it would if they did it themselves I'm happy. What I don't like is the timer system because someone can get away with making mistakes just by having a good tank. "I have an Apoc so I can log off!" Not ok. If you make a mistake in Eve you should pay for it like non-logging, non-CTDing citizens have to. Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000
Mortus Harbinger	Posted - 2005.04.15 17:07:00 - [34] Originally by: DrunkenOne The problem isn't with pvp corps, its with carebears, none of which post in this forum, so hence none will sign this, or agree to it. Hell if you look at the other threads on this issue there are carebears actually saying "its a valid tactic." So while this is a good thread, it will come to nothing, as most pvp corps/alliances on the whole already have enough honor to not do the whole log off thing. If what you say is correct, then you have found the solution. Stop chasing carebears around and go fight some real PVPers. You said yourself .. PvPers have way too much honour to use this cowardly tactic, so from your own analysis, if PvPers have the balls to fight other PvPers instead of chasing after haulers and shuttles, then there simply isn't a problem ... well .. other than the fact that the majority of PvPers seem to get a thrill from ganking someone who had no interest and no skills to fight them in the first place Mortus
Rivek	Posted - 2005.04.15 17:10:00 - [35] While I think most would agree logging in combat is lame, it is the logging then exploiting to make your ship disapear in mere seconds that I think should be punished and corrected by ccp. Simply logging and waiting for 2 mintues for your ship to disapear, hopping that it survives isnt in the same league of lameness. ---------------------------------------------- BS Weapon Comparison TunDraGon.com
Verone	Posted - 2005.04.15 17:11:00 - [36] [SNIGG] does not condone logging off in combat, or killing after sucessful ransom. Members who do so face permanent removal from the corp upon confirmations of their actions. COME AND SOCIALISE WITH US NASTY SNIGG BASTARDS AT : WWW.SNIGG.CJB.NET
Sky Hunter	Posted - 2005.04.15 17:14:00 - [37] id advice a simple solution. If you log and ship not being shot then he warps to random point. If you log and ship receiving damage in the moment of log action, then its stays right there. Not counting NPC dmg tho. Sometime people get bad drops when too much NPC on you, due to lag. -=-
Ivilb Itch	Posted - 2005.04.15 17:21:00 - [38] Originally by: Baconjoe Just wondering which corps out there would sign or support such an idea? Every corp and alliance with an inflated ego would. ________________________________ Victim of unnatural selection
Marcus Grisbius	Posted - 2005.04.15 17:23:00 - [39] Originally by: Ghost Red Lets face it, if you are scared of losing your ship to the extent of logging off in a fight, what the hell are you doing PvP-ing in the first place? PvPing means losing ships. Everyone does, it happens. Yeah, you may lose your ship, but its better than losing face by being tagged as a logger. I think naming and shaming is the way to go in Eve. Respect in this game is everything. The problem is that the people who usually log off weren't part of some fleet battle or may not ever want to PvP in their life. They logged because they were going to get ganked by some fleet 4-10 times the size of their solo ship. Which to them, if that's considered a fair fight, then being able to log off to avoid it should be fair too. I don't agree with logging in a gank situation, but it's far more of a gray area than just "everyone who logs should be shamed." Most of the people you would "shame" would care less about it because they look at the people shaming them and label them as "griefers." The problem should be fixed to allow ships to not be able to disappear if targeted, similar to cloaking measures. The pod would disappear once the ship was destroyed but that's a better system than having the ship disappear too. It protects those who honestly crashed due to lagging out or connection issues or the like. Also if they log, you get rid of most of the commonly stated reasons to pod people because they are no longer in local. The only other reason is to cause more harm to the individual, which can be termed borderline griefing seeing that no other reason for podding would exist. Certainty of death... little chance of success... what are we waiting for? - Gimli, son of Gloinn
The Enslaver	Posted - 2005.04.15 17:32:00 - [40] If I find someone has pulled a log off exploit to save a ship, I will kill them. Regardless of if they are in the same corp as me. -------- FireFoxx80: If you think you can do a better job, go find yourself a datacentre to host a box, get a copy of Visual Studio, and STFU.
Krapz	Posted - 2005.04.15 17:40:00 - [41] I don't believe any CLS member has done this intentionally. If they have, evemail me. If the member was not a part of our PvP fleet, then he'll get 1 warning. If the member is part of our fleet, or already recieved a warning, then they will get DB Preachers's method of resolution. -- Insert cool graphics sig here --
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2005.04.15 17:45:00 - [42] Originally by: The Enslaver If I find someone has pulled a log off exploit to save a ship, I will kill them. Regardless of if they are in the same corp as me. /Elve New Video out! Watch me!
Trooper B99	Posted - 2005.04.15 18:40:00 - [43] Originally by: Nez Perces If your ship is going down bite the bullet and die like a trooper..... I don't die THAT often, but thanks. j/k Wirykomi Team Racer - COLOSSUS Championships Year 106
HDCamper Itsim	Posted - 2005.04.15 20:39:00 - [44] hmmm thinking the shortened scan probe time will lead to more log offs....
MuthaTrucka	Posted - 2005.04.15 20:51:00 - [45] Edited by: MuthaTrucka on 15/04/2005 20:54:39 Can I ask one favor........ Instead of Saying a "alliance" Member logged off in combat can we please say a "Corporation" Member logged off in Combat. It is really semantics but I hate being put in the same category as another alliance member because he is a little Snit. I may not be a Good PVPer but if the ships going down I go down with it.... Thanks Mmm'kay --------------- Don't Call me a Carebear, I don't really care about much at all. --------------- [ Internally Yours foyle, MT ]
Nyk0n	Posted - 2005.04.15 21:09:00 - [46] Originally by: Rivek While I think most would agree logging in combat is lame, it is the logging then exploiting to make your ship disapear in mere seconds that I think should be punished and corrected by ccp. Simply logging and waiting for 2 mintues for your ship to disapear, hopping that it survives isnt in the same league of lameness. This is an old problem that seems to come and go, and is less than an exact science... Last this was being "used" i tested it, way back before emergency warp out, and succesfully shot my main with the alt i logged in to make him vanish, why/how/if/when it happens is not quite as simple as "log in ur alt". I used to have servere ctd problems on 1 of my computers, to the point where i would use a warp bubble to prevent the warp out whilst chaining (sometimes ud warp back in funny and drop the "wrong side" of the roid;)) and have seen how in-consistant the period of time is till you vanish. Sometimes its 30 secs, sometimes its 2 mins and others its 2 mins before it even shows that player dropping from local and there "buddy lite" showing red....... An idea to help stop it being used as a tactic, when ur client closes 4 wotever reason, ur modules deactivate. If you cant damage ennuf to kill within the time, considering base res and no rep (and that the ship does indeed stay in space 4 the correct time) then you suck anyway and dont deserve the kill;) Question..... If some1 did genuinly crash, would you expect them to log back imediatly, knowing that they may survive if they dont but the oponent has had 2 mins to pound them 4 free, and if they do log back in, they will be unable to stop there ship being killed because they have 20% structure left
Mortuus	Posted - 2005.04.15 22:18:00 - [47] Saying that PvP'rs shouldn't chase carebears is stupid, if you go into low sec space you take your life in your own hands. In 0.0 if you can't defend yourself you shouldn't be there. Learn to run, learn to fight, learn to hide. But don't log. I know that no one in OCC will log during a fight.
Masta Killa	Posted - 2005.04.16 05:05:00 - [48] Originally by: Nyk0n An idea to help stop it being used as a tactic, when ur client closes 4 wotever reason, ur modules deactivate. If you cant damage ennuf to kill within the time, considering base res and no rep (and that the ship does indeed stay in space 4 the correct time) then you suck anyway and dont deserve the kill;) Best damn suggestion about fixing logout tactics I've ever heard. There's not golden solution to it but this sure is a big step in the right direction. And yes, if anyone in COL logs out intentionally in combat, I will have his balls in a thumbscrew for it. And if that anyone would have saved a ship with his logging, he'd lose it right there and then. That's The Collective's policy on exploiting to save one's miserable hide. Here's a personal query: Is it ok for people to log out when their ship is almost dead, thus saving their pod? My victims do it literally all the time, and yet I lost a set of +3's tonight and didn't even think about logging out to save a damn thing. Just sat cloaked pondering which direction it was best to try and warp to, but the harpy loss + lag + podding was inevitable. (played while completely knackered...never even checked the map before going towards GW) -------------------------------------- We are The Collective. Resistance is futile.
Jaisan	Posted - 2005.04.16 10:11:00 - [49] Edited by: Jaisan on 16/04/2005 10:13:32 Awaiting the Armoured Assassins to sign. Lordmix ?? Just too orangey for crows.
Crackers	Posted - 2005.04.16 10:59:00 - [50] Edited by: ***ers on 16/04/2005 10:59:30 Its a shame atuk cant sign this. Would have had alot of respect for them if they changed their ways. Think they spend more time offline than on atm :\|
John McCreedy	Posted - 2005.04.16 11:02:00 - [51] If you ever catch an EDF pilot doing this then mail me. This is a lame tatic (that I'm getting increasingly frustraited with enemys doing) and won't tollerate it in my corp. Make a difference
Mindlles	Posted - 2005.04.16 11:13:00 - [52] good post. And ihave a VERY negative stand to do that. But credit for the SHINRA guys not to come to this post and say that they hate it. becouse in my opion they are on off the bigger pvp corp thats actully have their player use that as a tactic, ffs even they use their fleets to logg of as a tactic....
Pychian Vanervi	Posted - 2005.04.16 11:20:00 - [53] My Corp. would sign this with immediate effect, you don't want to lose a ship don't fight!! ----------------------------- It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory!
Valentine Keen	Posted - 2005.04.16 12:53:00 - [54] Originally by: Baconjoe Originally by: Valentine Keen I'm a little surprised it's an issue for you. There didn't seem to me to be a whole lot of pvp involved in your 2 torp spamming ships splattering my slasher frigate and pod all around Amamake when I blundered in there by accident. I'm not saying logging is good, but maybe if combat wasn't always about ganking someone so hard in so short a time, they might try other options, such as trying to escape or fight it out. Just an alternate view anyway. Also, on a personal note, it didn't seem a whole lot like piracy either, I mean no ransom, no convo, not even a word, just a volley of torps and it was all over - no loot, no isk, nothing. I might have paid a reasonable sum to save my implants, but I wasn't given that choice. Little wonder pvpers leave if that's all there is to it. Hardly a thrilling adrenalin rush to use 140m worth of battleships to kill a 20k frigate. -------------------------------------------------- You are correct in what you are saying here. There was not alot of pirating here. But what you need to examine is the reason I was there. Their is little to none piracy left in eve do to the changes ccp have made. So what else is a pirate supposed to do to make isk while ONLY 'pirating'? Trust me if there had been time ie in 0.0 you would have been ransomed. Strangely enough my earliest character used to spend time evading Corp 1 about a year and a half or more ago, back when everyone likes to recall piracy being possible. All I ever saw were battleships sat at the first gate in 0.0 out from Derelik and people getting blown up trying to get through. Even then there was no piracy, just killing. No ransom, no webbing and demands, just an Apoc trying to gun down my poor Omen. I'd like to have faith that combat changes would encourage people not to simply gank, but my experience over the last 2 years hasn't really changed as all these apparent nerfs to piracy have come in, so I'm sceptical.
Artharas	Posted - 2005.04.16 13:17:00 - [55] Originally by: Sky Hunter id advice a simple solution. If you log and ship not being shot then he warps to random point. If you log and ship receiving damage in the moment of log action, then its stays right there. Not counting NPC dmg tho. Sometime people get bad drops when too much NPC on you, due to lag. Agree there, though I think there should still be like a 5-10 min countdown of the ship disappearing when being attacked(basicly the one that can't kill the guy in 5-10 min isn't going to). My main issue with logging isn't that much logging in combat when you are about to die. You'll in most cases die anyway, but when people disappear in 20-30 secs, that's just on bottom of the lame-metre. And ofcourse you PvPers have to remember that if CCP would put somekinda rule on logging, it would also go for "carebears" that aren't even doing PvP, so ofcourse CCP has to think of all their costumers before implenting dramastic changes to anti-lameness. ------------------------- These are my views and don't necessarily represent my corp nor my alliance.
Leitari	Posted - 2005.04.16 13:33:00 - [56] I've petitioned this alot and according to the people in charge this is a valid tactic :( they actually dont want to fix this for some sick preverted reason. I've had sooooo many misses coz people log off on me and I hate it, this reason alone has caused me to think about quitting this game. Now if the whole PA would sign off on this my mouth would drop to the floor lol. Probably never seen anyone log off more then them. Self destruct your ship instead of logging off, much cooler tactic and the enemy gets a message stating that they have 2 minutes to kill you. Tried it once but missed it by 2 seconds or something poor apoc :( probably would have made it if I'd logged off. Here, Only the silent survive.
TheFlamecollector	Posted - 2005.04.16 13:40:00 - [57] Originally by: Leitari I've petitioned this alot and according to the people in charge this is a valid tactic :( they actually dont want to fix this for some sick preverted reason. I've had sooooo many misses coz people log off on me and I hate it, this reason alone has caused me to think about quitting this game. Now if the whole PA would sign off on this my mouth would drop to the floor lol. Probably never seen anyone log off more then them. Self destruct your ship instead of logging off, much cooler tactic and the enemy gets a message stating that they have 2 minutes to kill you. Tried it once but missed it by 2 seconds or something poor apoc :( probably would have made it if I'd logged off. can i have your stuff?
Koval	Posted - 2005.04.16 14:08:00 - [58] Originally by: Leitari Now if the whole PA would sign off on this my mouth would drop to the floor lol. Probably never seen anyone log off more then them. where does that bitterness come from? any examples maybe? or is it just a flamebait?
zincol	Posted - 2005.04.16 14:22:00 - [59] Make cloakin devices actully needed... if u wanna log u gota cloak or ya ship will sit there sure ppl might ctd or what eva but that'll ave 2 be part of the game...or u can make the vanish timer t3-5mins.
Omeega	Posted - 2005.04.16 15:29:00 - [60] Edited by: Omeega on 16/04/2005 15:36:24 Edited by: Omeega on 16/04/2005 15:32:14 Originally by: Seleene Edited by: Seleene on 15/04/2005 13:17:59 No one in my corp, or the entire MC that I know of, has ever intentionally logged off (in combat). Give me proof of one of mine doing it and I won't boot him - I'll spend every moment he logs in podding him until he manages to get out my corp on his own. I'm sure Waagaa did it already while mining scordite with me... /me hugs waagaaaaaa Don't speak english. F1,f2,f3...

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