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Move Target Painters to high slot ?

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Shiva Diva	Posted - 2005.04.15 13:19:00 - [1] I had always assumed they were going to be a high slot when i read the Dev blogs, now with the patch in i see they are a Med. This puzzles me a lil. Shouldnt they be a High slot ? After all conventional aircraft such as an F16 or a Tornado carry Laser makers for their munitions. But they carry them at the expense of a hardpoint that would otherwise have had a weapon on it. Would it not have made sence for the Target Painter to be treated the same way in game? Sacrifice a turret/launcher to carry such a boosting piece of equipment. Flame on
Lizanne	Posted - 2005.04.15 13:31:00 - [2] Originally by: Shiva Diva I had always assumed they were going to be a high slot when i read the Dev blogs, now with the patch in i see they are a Med. This puzzles me a lil. Shouldnt they be a High slot ? After all conventional aircraft such as an F16 or a Tornado carry Laser makers for their munitions. But they carry them at the expense of a hardpoint that would otherwise have had a weapon on it. Would it not have made sence for the Target Painter to be treated the same way in game? Sacrifice a turret/launcher to carry such a boosting piece of equipment. Flame on EvE = Non-realistic Sci-Fi game This game is all around balance. If you want High slots target painters, you'll have to increase their effectiveness or move all EW modules to high slots.
Darkwolf	Posted - 2005.04.15 13:33:00 - [3] Originally by: Shiva Diva Shouldnt they be a High slot ? After all conventional aircraft such as an F16 or a Tornado carry Laser makers for their munitions. But they carry them at the expense of a hardpoint that would otherwise have had a weapon on it. Admittedly, the Litening targeting pod on an A-10 uses up a wing hardpoint, but that's a much, much more complex device than a simple laser designator. The (ageing, and non-bomber role) F-16 also makes use of Litening pods for laser-guided weaponry like Paveways, but the new F-35's have an inbuilt laser designator, totally mitigating any loss in hardpoints. It's fairly reasonable to assume that such things wouldn't be a problem in the high-tech future :)
Scorpyn	Posted - 2005.04.15 13:37:00 - [4] I thought they were gonna be high slot modules too... frig size high slot modules, so that a frig could be a tackler and use these aswell. Apparently I was wrong
Matthew	Posted - 2005.04.15 13:38:00 - [5] Originally by: Shiva Diva I had always assumed they were going to be a high slot when i read the Dev blogs, now with the patch in i see they are a Med. This puzzles me a lil. Shouldnt they be a High slot ? After all conventional aircraft such as an F16 or a Tornado carry Laser makers for their munitions. But they carry them at the expense of a hardpoint that would otherwise have had a weapon on it. Would it not have made sence for the Target Painter to be treated the same way in game? Sacrifice a turret/launcher to carry such a boosting piece of equipment. Flame on See This Thread Where I calculated the comparative advantages and disadvantages of the target painter vs existing modules (namely, the tracking computer, tracking link and the webber). In summary of what the numbers there mean in comparing the TP with the TC: If you're trying to track a target at your optimal range, they are approximately equivalent (the increase in optimal from the TC makes up for it's lower tracking modifier). Hence, tracking computers are better for sniperships, target painters for close-in work. Target painters apply their effects to only one target, but the effect is shared with all. Target computers apply their effects to all targets, but the effect is restricted to your ship. So, target painters got put in midslots, because other modules with comparable effects are also mid-slot. If you want target painters in high-slot, then by the same argument, tracking computers and webbers would belong in high slots too.
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.04.15 13:45:00 - [6] All EW is med slot, what's the reason for this to be high slot other then some weird RL example of a rare situation of old fighters adapting to new technology? ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Dirtball	Posted - 2005.04.15 13:53:00 - [7] Where does an F16 or an A10 mount there tracking disruptors or Shield hardeners? How about their structure repairers or armor hardeners?
Selim	Posted - 2005.04.15 18:54:00 - [8] hislot plz
Alyth	Posted - 2005.04.15 19:05:00 - [9] Originally by: Selim hislot plz Painternix o_o.
Raven Dru	Posted - 2005.04.15 20:46:00 - [10] Have to admit i just bought one, assuming they were a high slot mod. Weapons on a tackler are virtually redundant anyways, your buddies are the ones packing the punch and and i just assumed these were going to go into those redundant hi-slots.

Jane Vladmir	Posted - 2005.04.15 20:53:00 - [11] I disagree. Gankage = Not fun.
Nyphur	Posted - 2005.04.15 22:09:00 - [12] Put it like this.. There are several Minmatar ships which can spare high slots, as well as the scorpion which typically uses 4 siege launchers with two to spare (usually heavy nosferatus or something, I gather). Would you rather they ran tracking computers AND target painters at the same time? That's enough to turn any ship into a snipertank.
TIO 101	Posted - 2005.04.15 22:17:00 - [13] paintball fight any1? h4xb4n
Mrissa Easeah	Posted - 2005.04.15 22:37:00 - [14] Painters highslot? Cool idea, but with tracking computers remaining midslot, I wonder just how much more nasty your hits will be. Making it midslot makes you choose/balance between painters and tracking computers instead of stacking themall up on a single ship. A helluva lotta people would cram one in their 'utility' high slot if they have it. Oh, and there is at least one high slot EW weapon, Targetting Computer, that I'm aware of, though I've never really found the sacrifice of a high slot worth its benefit.
Selim	Posted - 2005.04.15 22:48:00 - [15] Edited by: Selim on 15/04/2005 22:50:28 Originally by: Nyphur Put it like this.. There are several Minmatar ships which can spare high slots, as well as the scorpion which typically uses 4 siege launchers with two to spare (usually heavy nosferatus or something, I gather). Would you rather they ran tracking computers AND target painters at the same time? That's enough to turn any ship into a snipertank. Put it like this. There are several ships that cant fit jack in some of their slots so they deserve some more useful things to put in 'utility' slots. We're sick of fitting micro smartbombs in them.
Dill Doe	Posted - 2005.04.15 23:21:00 - [16] So.. can i paint ships with this ?
Hyey	Posted - 2005.04.15 23:36:00 - [17] Originally by: Selim Edited by: Selim on 15/04/2005 22:50:28 Originally by: Nyphur Put it like this.. There are several Minmatar ships which can spare high slots, as well as the scorpion which typically uses 4 siege launchers with two to spare (usually heavy nosferatus or something, I gather). Would you rather they ran tracking computers AND target painters at the same time? That's enough to turn any ship into a snipertank. Put it like this. There are several ships that cant fit jack in some of their slots so they deserve some more useful things to put in 'utility' slots. We're sick of fitting micro smartbombs in them. funny, i find myself putting large smartbombs in all my utility slots and its saved my ass countless times already. ~~ Hyey I just payed 15 dollars this month just to be able to respond on the forums... stupid cancellation error.
Selim	Posted - 2005.04.15 23:44:00 - [18] Thats the point, on a ton of ships you can't even fit them due to crap powergrid or CPU and so they are left completely empty.
Harry Voyager	Posted - 2005.04.16 01:00:00 - [19] The only difference between target painters and tracking computers is one is short range, and the other is long range. Aside from that there is little difference between the two. What's the big scary trade-off here?
Meridius	Posted - 2005.04.16 01:14:00 - [20] Edited by: Meridius on 16/04/2005 01:15:04 Highslots are pretty useless, they definitely some need new modules. The problem with target painters in highslots goes something like this though... --- 6x 1400 IIs 2x Target Painter IIs -- 3x Tracking Computer IIs 2x Sensor Booster IIs - 5x Gyro IIs 1x PDU II Now, i'm not quite sure if that all fits but uh if it does, doom ________________________________________________________

Hllaxiu	Posted - 2005.04.16 01:22:00 - [21] Edited by: Hllaxiu on 16/04/2005 01:21:59 Originally by: Shiva Diva Shouldnt they be a High slot ? After all conventional aircraft such as an F16 or a Tornado carry Laser makers for their munitions. But they carry them at the expense of a hardpoint that would otherwise have had a weapon on it. The F-16 doesn't sacrifice any hardpoints for a laser pod (or a LANTIRN for that matter). Its mounted just under the air intake - well forward of the centerline hardpoint. You might be thinking of the ECM pod - that takes up the center hardpoint. Of course the center hardpoint on a F-16 can't mount A-A missiles (IIRC) or A-G missiles, only paveways (And only the heavier ones at that), so that centerline hardpoint is almost always an ECM pod or fuel tank. *I am not a viper driver but I play one online. Falcon 4.0 BMS 2.0 FTW!
Harry Voyager	Posted - 2005.04.16 05:06:00 - [22] Edited by: Harry Voyager on 16/04/2005 05:08:32 Understand that each hardpoint on a modern combat aircraft has to be specifically wired to accomodate any given weapon system. So, while it is not currently possible to mount weapons on the cheek or centerline mounts, that merely means that the buyer has never decided it would be worth it to pay for the upgrades required to mount such weapons there. In otherwords, to mount the laser designator system, they have opted to permanently sacrifice a hardpoint for weapon use, regardless of whether the ewar pods are used or not. From everything I have seen of it Falcon 4.0 is almost laughably inaccurate when it comes to fitting out the F-16. Granted it would be decidedly unfun if they were to do an accurate loadout simulation in the game. Harry Voyager
Calyn	Posted - 2005.04.16 05:25:00 - [23] I also agree that they need to be high slot modules. As I only fly Amarr ships (by choice), and many of the are - to say the least - low on med slots. Especially the Retribution, Coercer and Zealot come to mind. Amarr ships could really use some variation in weaponry, and we have a lot of those useless utility slots. A Zealot with a Painter II - now that appeals to me _________________________________________________ War transcends all barriers of species, race, religion, and civilization.
pardux	Posted - 2005.04.16 05:31:00 - [24] active ew module = medslot , and its a minmatar\angel module = medslot Fluffy carebear (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
Selim	Posted - 2005.04.16 10:01:00 - [25] Edited by: Selim on 16/04/2005 10:02:36 Originally by: Meridius Edited by: Meridius on 16/04/2005 01:15:04 Highslots are pretty useless, they definitely some need new modules. The problem with target painters in highslots goes something like this though... --- 6x 1400 IIs 2x Target Painter IIs -- 3x Tracking Computer IIs 2x Sensor Booster IIs - 5x Gyro IIs 1x PDU II Now, i'm not quite sure if that all fits but uh if it does, doom So its not a 'problem' on a gankageddon? I think the real problem is that the tempest can't fit **** in all its hislots, like certain other ships... and what about all those amarr ships that perform just fine with nothing in their utility slot? Ships like the tempest which can't fit crap in all their hislots deserve this kind of module, and more things like it. Its just plain idiocy when the only thing you can fit in hislots are modules that eat up all your powergrid. Especially for those pesky utility slots on many amarr ships, where a nosferatu just doesnt cut it because they cant fit usually. My opinion on one of my threads still stands: We need more modules for 'utility' slots.
Lucas Vicenzo	Posted - 2005.04.16 11:14:00 - [26] Personally I think that they would be better suited to a high slot module, capable of being fitted to small ships such as interceptors. Would give them a new role of being able to tackle and paint a target, maybe they would be able to do this too well. Is there any particular reason that they were made mid slots? Didnt warp stabs used to be in high slots? So its quite possible that they will be moved if there is a good argument for it.
Kara Kaprica	Posted - 2005.04.16 13:24:00 - [27] High slot please, ftw "Vengence delivered, on time and cold as ordered"
Jedi Alchemist	Posted - 2005.04.16 13:57:00 - [28] Originally by: Calyn I also agree that they need to be high slot modules. As I only fly Amarr ships (by choice)............ Well that's your choice and it's entirely up to you how you choose to spend your time and your hard earned cash. But remember it's only a game so just diversify and have fun and don't put your self into a little box that says Amarr on the outside. I disagree that it needs to be a high slot module. My Gallente ships have plenty of med slots available for this type of module. I'm even thinking of putting a tracking comp, webber, and target painter on my Brutix. Should be interesting to say the least. Have fun with your armor tanking ok, cos that's all Amarr ships are good for, and the rest of us will have lot's of fun targetting you.....
Jonathan Davis	Posted - 2005.04.18 13:26:00 - [29] Originally by: Meridius Edited by: Meridius on 16/04/2005 01:15:04 Highslots are pretty useless Does this statement seem stupid to anyone else? I like having weapons. (ok i'm being pedantic, so sue me i'm bored).
meowcat	Posted - 2005.04.18 15:43:00 - [30] i also expected them to be highslot, to take advantage of the fact that many turret ships have an often useless "utility" slot a midslot item makes them most feasible for the one race that doesn't use turrets very silly ~~~~)\~~~~~\o/~~~~ yeah but no but yeah but no but



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