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U'puauht
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Posted - 2005.04.24 16:21:00 -
[721]
 Originally by: Lorth
They should not be banned, what they did was perfectly inside the game mechanics.
Although I agree that banning GHSC for this doesn't make sense because their spy (or whatever) was allowed to have the means to commit that theft by the CEO, I want to add that what happened in Yulai back then was well within game mechanics as well, so from that point of view, there was not more or less justification of a ban for those than for this specific GHSC member.
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Deep Space Services : Risk is our business, security our service. |
Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2005.04.24 16:26:00 -
[722]
Disobeying a GM's orders is not a game mechanic, and that's why they were banned.
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MooKids
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Posted - 2005.04.24 17:29:00 -
[723]
Zombie and Yulai incident was more of a loophole in game mechanics. They weren't "supposed" to be able to do that, but they showed that they could. It only became an exploit after they were ordered to stop and refused.
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CCP can patch away bugs, but they can't patch away stupidity. |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2005.04.24 17:51:00 -
[724]
Longest thread ever?
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Skogen Gump
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Posted - 2005.04.24 18:50:00 -
[725]
afaik the longest thread was the one that happened during the easter server failure, it was upto 80 something pages I think ...
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Grosvenor Corama
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Posted - 2005.04.24 19:06:00 -
[726]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Longest thread ever?
don't think so no, but so unlike you to miss out on a 30+ pages thread.  
Oh and let's not discuss the yulai incident and whatever happened afterwards.
~{Forum Rules}~ ♥ ~{contact us}~ |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2005.04.24 19:19:00 -
[727]
Originally by: Grosvenor Corama
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Longest thread ever?
don't think so no, but so unlike you to miss out on a 30+ pages thread.
Oh and let's not discuss the yulai incident and whatever happened afterwards.
heh
I made my contributions early on.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Lord Artemis
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Posted - 2005.04.24 19:31:00 -
[728]
ok update to you all since it happened just now
we have been told by many "take care of this yourself"
ok... fine we have
utilizing "in game mechanics" foxi brown decided to "hold" a thief in his corp for interrogation and the aggressive request (shooting the hell out of him everytime he undocked somewhere) to return items stolen
in the middle of "negotiations" said theif contacted a gm to cry no fair and gm told foxi to stop and removed theif from corp
umm hello? wtf is this b.s. we try to take care of it ourselves since its allowed in game
for those that are wondering foxi brown repeatedly gave the thief roles so he could not leave corp
clever indeed eh? well so much for using our heads and taking care of it ourselves
lack of balance in this situation is unacceptable
favoritism is down right wrong in the second example
___________________________
Aegis Militia Conclave official representative |
Viceroy
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Posted - 2005.04.24 19:33:00 -
[729]
Edited by: Viceroy on 24/04/2005 19:33:53
Thats an abuse of game mechanics. Take a wild guess why ROLES are there. I bet 1bil that it isn't to PREVENT PEOPLE FROM LEAVING A CORP.
Yeah that's favoritsm. Congrats on humiliating yourself to a new level.
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James Raven
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Posted - 2005.04.24 19:39:00 -
[730]
Originally by: Galeo
Excellent work James, you are a winner! One brain cell down, two or three to go, you have identified a little dot which an f-ton of your "carebear" friends (i.e. all people that you disagree with) have already seen. Perhaps if you take a step back you might start trying to connect it with others, try it, it's fun.
hhmmm.....a corporation that does not pool any assets and has nothing of value in it's hangers....hhmmmmm.....that should mean something, I am just not sure what.....
Remember - when in doubt, call me a carebear!
Pssh. Go be condescending to someone else. My point was that they take the precautions to make sure that they won't get hit like that. One way is to just make it so that the corporation is worth 0 isk without it's members, which is the one they choose to do.
I don't see how that has anything to do with anyone being a carebear, but whatever. That word gets flung around too much anyways, so I'll just ignore it like usual.
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I'm not going to protect you from your own stupidity. I'm a space pirate, not your mother. |
Lord Artemis
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Posted - 2005.04.24 19:42:00 -
[731]
viceroy,
i agree with your post however
point is either a) let them both go or b)let niether be allowed
i would like it to be allowed and balanced or get rid of it
since there is no set policy on both we did what the thief do, utilized the lack of balance and our brains to stop him
fight fire with fire
___________________________
Aegis Militia Conclave official representative |
Gariuys
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Posted - 2005.04.24 19:49:00 -
[732]
I'd say, keeping someone against his will in your corporation, so you can repeatedly shoot him up without repercursions from concord constitures griefing if I've ever seen it.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Viceroy
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Posted - 2005.04.24 19:51:00 -
[733]
Originally by: Lord Artemis
viceroy,
i agree with your post however
point is either a) let them both go or b)let niether be allowed
i would like it to be allowed and balanced or get rid of it
since there is no set policy on both we did what the thief do, utilized the lack of balance and our brains to stop him
fight fire with fire
There is a set policy on what you did, as the GMs politely pointed out. It's called abusing game mechanics, and its not allowed.
Saying its "fighting fire with fire" or any other justification is simple nonsense. Please don't humiliate yourself.
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James Raven
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Posted - 2005.04.24 19:53:00 -
[734]
And yea, I'd have to agree with the whole "keeping someone in the corp to kill them repeatedly" would be greifing. While it is within the game mechanics to do so, the purpose of the game mechanics being used in that way is not what they are being used for. This can be likened to the Yulai incident. Sure, it could be done, but that's not what they're supposed to be used for.
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I'm not going to protect you from your own stupidity. I'm a space pirate, not your mother. |
Foxi Brown
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Posted - 2005.04.24 20:18:00 -
[735]
Game mechanics vs player interaction, In my weakness to believe that all people have some common decency I found myself believing that this corp thief would make a very good personnel manager however any time he logged on I would remember why he had no roles and immediately remove him from the position. This stopping him from leaving the corp was merely a happy coincidence. As for griefing I'm not really the type I chatted him in local and offered to kick him myself if the items were returned on principal but it the end his attitude in a private chat was 'haha I won you lose, thanks CCP'
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Altaireus
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Posted - 2005.04.24 20:22:00 -
[736]
Edited by: Altaireus on 24/04/2005 20:25:12
if someone that cant be trusted commits corp theft with the help of his role in corp, isnt that abuse of game mechanics since roles are only meant to be assigned to people that can be trusted?
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Grosvenor Corama
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Posted - 2005.04.24 20:27:00 -
[737]
Keep it on topic people.
~{Forum Rules}~ ♥ ~{contact us}~ |
Lord Artemis
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Posted - 2005.04.24 20:30:00 -
[738]
Edited by: Lord Artemis on 24/04/2005 20:31:23
viceroy,
repeating the word humiliate doesnt make it so
foxi: roflmao , you cant be held accountable for your mistakes in judgement in this case, this guy gets my vote for stations manager
we are simply pointing out a balance problem here
corp theft and being able to run out the door and just sit there and watch him do it
foxi saw him take it and did what anyone would do, held him down and commenced the virtual whoop ass on him. i would think even you , viceroy, would appreciate his creative tactics in this case
so are we saying the bad guys can bend the rules but the good guys have to follow them to the letter?? thats crap
btw there is also a set policy on griefing as well but that isnt being followed either
___________________________
Aegis Militia Conclave official representative |
Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.04.24 21:01:00 -
[739]
Originally by: Lord Artemis
Edited by: Lord Artemis on 24/04/2005 20:31:23
foxi: roflmao , you cant be held accountable for your mistakes in judgement in this case, this guy gets my vote for stations manager
A con is a con is a con.
Quote:
we are simply pointing out a balance problem here
corp theft and being able to run out the door and just sit there and watch him do it
That's what mercenaries are for. There is no balance problem here.
Quote:
so are we saying the bad guys can bend the rules but the good guys have to follow them to the letter?? thats crap
Isn't that pretty much the definition of "criminal"? Don't be daft, it's not nice. Breaking the in-game law does not = exploit. Breaking GM law = exploit.
Quote:
btw there is also a set policy on griefing as well but that isnt being followed either
The definition of griefing in that policy is carried out when it targets a specific person repeatedly for the sake of ruining their game experience ONLY. If there's in-game reasoning, including gits-n-shiggles of looting their can and getting the ISK, it's not really griefing.
"You Griefer!!!" = "You Doodyhead!!!" |
Foxi Brown
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Posted - 2005.04.24 21:07:00 -
[740]
Quote:
Our target was assigned to us many months ago û Mirial of Ubiqua Seraph. Our task was to carry out that which the GHSC has now become known for û to utterly demolish Mirial
It has been shown that griefing is a mythical term not so easily described as harassing a person to ruin their online gaming experience
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Shira d'Radonis
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Posted - 2005.04.24 21:08:00 -
[741]
CCP has done a fairly good job at rendering legitimate businesspeople in EVE completely powerless.
I mean, thievery and such will go on... that's a given. I don't mind that. But what I DO mind is the ability conduct oneself in such a way with virtually no reprocussions at all... and that's exactly what's happening here.
If they have the tools to lie, cheat and steal, then we must have the tools to hang their bodies in the town square!
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ôàquod ad ius naturale attinet, omnes homines aequales suntö
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Messerschmitt facility
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Posted - 2005.04.24 21:21:00 -
[742]
U have been ripped off because your CEO mistake to give rights where the theft shouldn't have.
Live with it.
And yes I am perfectly agree that this is not a bannable offence, and yes I agree that using game mechanics as assigning title to prevent sombody from leaving the corp is game mechanic's exploit.
Using game mechanics in ways they haven't been assigned for it's an exploit. I think it's on EULA or somthing.
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A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking...
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Foxi Brown
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Posted - 2005.04.24 21:35:00 -
[743]
We're not saying that corp thieves should be banned we are asking for ways to make it less attractive, ie licensing BPO's to owners. The corps that fall victim to the large thefts are the corps that make and create the economy and storyline of EVE having years of assets ripped off to be sold on e-bay or horded in a inactive account is a crushing blow to the corps and to EVE itself. We say yes steal it, but don't hide in a newb corp to avoid getting killed. Wheres our ability to place hit contracts out on these people??
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Lord Artemis
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Posted - 2005.04.24 21:52:00 -
[744]
Originally by: Foxi Brown
Quote:
Our target was assigned to us many months ago û Mirial of Ubiqua Seraph. Our task was to carry out that which the GHSC has now become known for û to utterly demolish Mirial
It has been shown that griefing is a mythical term not so easily described as harassing a person to ruin their online gaming experience
the above surely translates to : we have and will continue to grief and ruin mirials gameplay
tho the names of the individuals have changed the account swapping and alternate characters created.
an alt can easily become a main if they are used the most between all the chars and accounts a player has
___________________________
Aegis Militia Conclave official representative |
Viceroy
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Posted - 2005.04.24 21:56:00 -
[745]
Originally by: Shira d'Radonis
CCP has done a fairly good job at rendering legitimate businesspeople in EVE completely powerless.
I mean, thievery and such will go on... that's a given. I don't mind that. But what I DO mind is the ability conduct oneself in such a way with virtually no reprocussions at all... and that's exactly what's happening here.
If they have the tools to lie, cheat and steal, then we must have the tools to hang their bodies in the town square!
Declare war? Hire mercenaries? Those aren't tools? Oh wait, I guess you expect GM's to go punish people who outsmarted you. Yeah that's a much better idea than taking revenge yourself.
And the sad thing is, after all this whining and talk, there is not even one war declaration against GHSC. They're not alts, they're not in a newbie corp. Pathetic.
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Sevrec
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Posted - 2005.04.24 22:00:00 -
[746]
I think the point people are trying to get at is that corp thieves can use alts and newbie corps to avoid such repercussions. GHSC may not have done so directly but others certainly have. You all know its true: a corp thief who really wants to can completely avoid any repercussions of his actions.
This needs fixing.
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Lord Artemis
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Posted - 2005.04.24 22:07:00 -
[747]
the sad thing is that mercs and war decs are our business, we reserve the right to do what we want, when we want
we completely understand our ingame options for retaliation and we will move on them when we want to.
viceroy, you have been around long enough to know that these are not their only accounts anyway and they jump accounts ingame as fast as you and m0o jumped thru systems doing your ebil work
beside there is a better thread with a more balanced solution to the situation and this thread has just gone to and us vs. them thread anyway
___________________________
Aegis Militia Conclave official representative |
Shira d'Radonis
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Posted - 2005.04.24 22:07:00 -
[748]
Originally by: Viceroy
Declare war? Hire mercenaries? Those aren't tools? Oh wait, I guess you expect GM's to go punish people who outsmarted you. Yeah that's a much better idea than taking revenge yourself.
And the sad thing is, after all this whining and talk, there is not even one war declaration against GHSC. They're not alts, they're not in a newbie corp. Pathetic.
Nope. I didn't ask for the GMs to get involved. In fact my point was exactly about taking revenge for oneself.
I mean, outsmarting a corp thief by not allowing him to leave is taking care of it yourself... and he went whining to the GMs, but you're ok with that because he's in the same sleazy business as you...
And besides, even if we declare war and hire mercs, that doesn't get our stuff back. (Note: I haven't had any corp theft, I'm just annoyed with the fact that pirates get to bury their heads in CCP's apron, but other players are **** out of luck.)
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ôàquod ad ius naturale attinet, omnes homines aequales suntö
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Wakita
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Posted - 2005.04.24 22:08:00 -
[749]
This is a sad case where innocent players have been attacked by these criminals. Now we find out that Tyrax Thorrk, alt of Hamish, alt of a GHSC member was a part of it. Hamish was booted off the UshraKhan council with his corp after it was found he was an alt of Tyrax.
Tyrax was a high ranking member of The Star Fraction alliance. Its funny we see so many SF people here supporting this unethical robbery. Perhaps its because they themselves were involved? They hosted this criminal for months then lied about why her corp was kicked out of SF. First saying it was for inactivity then saying it was because they found out about her. Which is it? It seems the SF cant get their story straight. Read these facts in this thread here. Look at these two quotes by Star Fraction members.
Quote:
Last night the Star Fraction council voted to remove Throne Worlds from the Alliance (at what was the first available opportunity for such a vote). The reasons were inactivity of Throne Worlds as a corp and questions over the mingled bloodlines of Tyraxx Thorrk.
Tyrrax's involvement has been suspected by many ever since the robbery. Once we had good enough proof we booted her after our next council meeting.
Obviously they cant get the story straight. They gave this criminal housing and support while she infiltrated the Minmatar roleplaying corps, the UQS to steal and who knows who else. Are we supposed to take their word for it they knew nothing when they cant even agree why they kicked her out? I sure dont. I may like to roleplay but this kind of stuff can ruin a game. The actions of the Star Fraction are ruinous for the entire game. I just wonder how many other GHSC members are in the SF ranks?
Wakita
Call of Freedom
We Shall be Free
Ronin of Matar alone on the path
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Shira d'Radonis
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Posted - 2005.04.24 22:19:00 -
[750]
My question is this: why are the alternate characters being held accountable for the actions of the GHSC character?
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ôàquod ad ius naturale attinet, omnes homines aequales suntö
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