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Kaname Hagiri
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2011.10.04 07:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
Well , I know they are just names, srtings, and I know it's not important whatever they are. Just a casual talk.
This thought came to me now and then that something like A / B / A+B is not the most elegant way of naming categories.
If there is water magic and cold magic in a game, there shouldn't also be ice magic. They may just change it to fire or light or whatever.
What Sci-fi idea do you like if you can replace the damage type 'explosive' in eve?
I like 'antimatter damage' .
Maybe acid damage of Zerg ? |
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
33
|
Posted - 2011.10.04 07:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
Isn't it more like nuclear explosion?
see the projectile ammo descriptions and the ones that do mostly explosive damage. Aren't they nuclear? |
Kehro Urgus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2011.10.04 07:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
I've sometimes wondrered how you could have explosive (percussive) damage in a vacuum. |
Fix Lag
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
54
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Posted - 2011.10.04 07:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
oh god arguing physics in a sci-fi game |
Digital Messiah
N7 Corporation
32
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Posted - 2011.10.04 07:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kehro Urgus wrote:I've sometimes wondrered how you could have explosive (percussive) damage in a vacuum. The force from the shock wave, and yes, I think they are supposed to be nuclear.
"Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn" |
Dradius Calvantia
Creative Cookie Procuring
Rote Kapelle
26
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Posted - 2011.10.04 08:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
Facepalm....
Leave the arm chair science to us real armchair scientist.
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Karim alRashid
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2011.10.04 08:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kehro Urgus wrote:I've sometimes wondrered how you could have explosive (percussive) damage in a vacuum.
EVE space is not vacuum.  |
Kehro Urgus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2011.10.04 08:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
Digital Messiah wrote:Kehro Urgus wrote:I've sometimes wondrered how you could have explosive (percussive) damage in a vacuum. The force from the shock wave, and yes, I think they are supposed to be nuclear.
Which would be thermal and em. |
Ur235
Mind Games.
0ccupational Hazzard
2
|
Posted - 2011.10.04 08:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
Its a game who cares if it doesnt follow the rules of physics or not jeesus just play the damn thing |
Thgil Goldcore
PIE Inc.
123
|
Posted - 2011.10.04 08:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
Explosive is very different than kenetic or thermal damage.
Consider the difference between a small object propelled to high speeds could give out the same amount of energy as a large explosive object. How you would prepare defenses for one would be completely different than the other.
Although... big note... thermonuclear warheads don't really work in space. The damage from a nuclear weapon is more about the pressure wave and the heat flash. The heat flash is negligible compared to being in close proximity to a sun, and the pressure wave has no atmosphere to carry it.... but again real science to sci-fi is silly.
As far as a good weapon in EVE lore, why not a weapon which puts a cloud around an opposing ship at atmospheric temperatures and pressures. Tritanium, according to lore, is highly explosive under these conditions... so the armor of the ship would go pop. |
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
286
|
Posted - 2011.10.04 08:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
Digital Messiah wrote:Kehro Urgus wrote:I've sometimes wondrered how you could have explosive (percussive) damage in a vacuum. The force from the shock wave, and yes, I think they are supposed to be nuclear.
You can't have a shockwave in a vacuum.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
310
|
Posted - 2011.10.04 09:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
Rodj Blake wrote:A shockwave needs a medium to pass through. And it has such a medium: the ship.
Spalling is nasty.
GÇöGÇöGÇö
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Jita Alt666
302
|
Posted - 2011.10.04 09:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ugh people. It is a game. There are so many flaws in the physics of this game that I cringe everytime I undock. (which is never) |
Abrazzar
143
|
Posted - 2011.10.04 09:04:00 -
[14] - Quote
Rodj Blake wrote:Digital Messiah wrote:Kehro Urgus wrote:I've sometimes wondrered how you could have explosive (percussive) damage in a vacuum. The force from the shock wave, and yes, I think they are supposed to be nuclear. You can't have a shockwave in a vacuum.
There the armor as a medium and I guess shields act in a similar way.
I think kinetic damage is directed kinetic force, while explosive is undirected kinetic force.
Piercing vs Ripping
Point vs Blunt
Slugs vs Shot
Something like that.
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
baltec1
75
|
Posted - 2011.10.04 09:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
I know how to make stuff like ice explode so you can rule out thermal |
Deopheel Dalonne
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2011.10.04 09:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
This is how we could "physically" explain thermal, Kinetic and EMP:
Thermal = increase in temperature caused by light (IR or laser).
Kinetic = actual atoms hitting you.
EMP = electromagnetic field (i.e. light again) causing the electrons in your ship to go in circles.
In order to remain consistent with that, we may say that "explosive" is a neutron wave that causes the atomic nuclei in your ship to explode and undergo a nuclear reaction. That would correspond to the connection with "nuclear" warheads in projectile ammo and missile. |
Dirk Magnum
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
10
|
Posted - 2011.10.04 10:38:00 -
[17] - Quote
The area between the ship and its shields is not a vacuum. If the shields are down, the explosion and blast wave occur inside the structure of the ship, or between the structure and armor coating, which is also not in a vacuum. So there.
Also, thermal damage is the direct application of enormous temperature. You don't need an explosion for that (ergo distinct from 'explosive' damage.) In the real world, IIRC, heat built up by an object in a vacuum has a hard time bleeding off, so if you wanted to damage something in space by applying a heat source directly to it, you could. Of course, if we assume again that the ship itself is not technically IN a vacuum anyway then it doesn't matter.
Kinetic damage is just hitting something until it dies. In reality if you wanted to hurt something in space, this is by far the easiest way to do it, since there's no atmosphere to slow down the projectile.
Now let me get back to my submarine spaceboat oh wait it's downtime. |
Sebastian N Cain
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2011.10.04 11:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
Jita Alt666 wrote:Ugh people. It is a game. There are so many flaws in the physics of this game that I cringe everytime I undock. (which is never)
Frankly speaking it-¦s better that way. Even something as simple as flying from a to b within the same system would be an annoying ***** if you had to do this with realistic physics.
I can-¦t be arsed to have to calculate my turning point (where i switch from acceleration to deceleration) every time i want to fly in space and have to take care to execute that maneuver with an accuracy of a fraction of a second.
In fact, if you want to do something more complex flying than this, you would absolutely need a full computer controlled ship, because as in RL a human can-¦t really do this on his own. At which point all of us would simply watch bots flying in space.
"You either need less science fiction or more medication."
"Or less medication and more ammo!" |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex
Cosmic Consortium
118
|
Posted - 2011.10.04 11:23:00 -
[19] - Quote
Rodj Blake wrote:You can't have a shockwave in a vacuum.
A ball of burning gas expanding outwards under its own pressure is not a vacuum, and it does indeed form a shockwave.
I'm not sure why so many people insist that you can't have explosions in space. The only technical difficulty is taking your oxidiser with you since there's no atmosphere. The great advantage of explosions in space is that there is no atmosphere to mess up your beautiful explosions. Spaceship hulls don't have a surrounding fluid to help damp the shockwave travelling through the hull either. Heck, they don't have surrounding fluid to damp the noise of the air conditioners.
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Gealbhan
29
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Posted - 2011.10.04 11:30:00 -
[20] - Quote
Imagine if CCP went all out in obeying the laws of physics in =v=...
There would be tears, many free floating tears. |
David Grogan
The Motley Crew Reborn
Warped Aggression
50
|
Posted - 2011.10.04 13:43:00 -
[21] - Quote
Kehro Urgus wrote:I've sometimes wondrered how you could have explosive (percussive) damage in a vacuum.
space is NOT a true vacuum.... space is full of particles of gas, water (ice), and dust |
Josefius
Caldari Elite Force
Apocalypse Now.
4
|
Posted - 2011.10.04 14:06:00 -
[22] - Quote
I like Pulsars. |
nahtoh
Vanguard Frontiers
Intrepid Crossing
1
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Posted - 2011.10.04 14:21:00 -
[23] - Quote
I thought you just had a smaller area of effect for a explosion in space...shrapnel would go much futher and tha blast wave would disapate faster. |
stoicfaux
256
|
Posted - 2011.10.04 14:41:00 -
[24] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Rodj Blake wrote:A shockwave needs a medium to pass through. And it has such a medium: the ship. Spalling is nasty.
Except that ships bounce off of each other and off of other large objects with no harm and without the crew being turned into paste against the bulkheads. I'm of the opinion that Eve ships are immune to RL kinetic, explosive, and/or spalling damage.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
315
|
Posted - 2011.10.04 14:53:00 -
[25] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Except that ships bounce off of each other and off of other large objects with no harm and without the crew being turned into paste against the bulkheads. I'm of the opinion that Eve ships are immune to RL kinetic, explosive, and/or spalling damage. [rp] That's just the autopilot detecting those large hulking ships and automatically evading them while applying the standard manoeuvring inertial dampers GÇö it can't detect or react fast enough to mitigate itty bitty warheads (no, not even when they are the size of volkswagens). [/rp]
GÇöGÇöGÇö
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Eyup Mi'duck
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2011.10.04 15:25:00 -
[26] - Quote
Kehro Urgus wrote:I've sometimes wondrered how you could have explosive (percussive) damage in a vacuum.
Think of explosive damage as being like a fart... it creates it's own medium for the shockwave to travel through.
I am me.-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á I am not you.-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-áI am happy with this situation. |
Foofad
Yulai Guard 1st Fleet
Yulai Federation
6
|
Posted - 2011.10.04 16:43:00 -
[27] - Quote
Sorry, no. The creates-its-own-medium theory isn't a good one. Chemical or nuclear explosions in space are much less spectacular than in an atmosphere. Basically what happens is that the material exploding flashes extremely brightly at the site of the explosion, vaporizes stuff nearby, and then dissipates almost immediately. The time scale for this is less than a second regardless of the type of explosion. Nuclear explosions in space are much brighter, but much faster as well. The timescale for a nuclear explosion in space is minuscule. But it's still extremely damaging - it would completely vaporize anything nearby. A crater in a ship caused by a nuclear explosion would be almost perfectly spherical, and have a sharp, defined cutoff at which anything meltable would be melted solid. Closer to the explosion beyond that point would just be gone, and beyond that would suffer thermal and EM damage where applicable.
In any case, there wouldn't be hardly any debris, because it would be vaporized almost instantly. No shockwaves to speak of, just "now you see it, now you don't."
Unfortunately, explosive, kinetic, and thermal damage in space are truly inseparable. If you heat something up enough, it explodes. If you hit something with something else moving very quickly, it explodes. If you explode something next to something else, it gets very hot and explodes.
But this is a game. Whatever. |
stoicfaux
256
|
Posted - 2011.10.04 16:49:00 -
[28] - Quote
Tippia wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Except that ships bounce off of each other and off of other large objects with no harm and without the crew being turned into paste against the bulkheads. I'm of the opinion that Eve ships are immune to RL kinetic, explosive, and/or spalling damage. [rp] That's just the autopilot detecting those large hulking ships and automatically evading them while applying the standard manoeuvring inertial dampers GÇö it can't detect or react fast enough to mitigate itty bitty warheads (no, not even when they are the size of volkswagens). [/rp]
< engineer_voice>
Then why can't my "autopilot" make such radical maneuvers all the time?
< /engineer_voice >
|
Kumq uat
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
13
|
Posted - 2011.10.04 16:57:00 -
[29] - Quote
There is also the fact that Nukes do EM damage along with thermal and explosive. So yeah. |
Zimmy Zeta
Humanidyne Inc.
13
|
Posted - 2011.10.04 16:58:00 -
[30] - Quote
Sebastian N Cain wrote:........ At which point all of us would simply watch bots flying in space.
*giggles*
reminds me of most of the mining systems in eve.....
on a related note:
I recently thought about the hybrid weapon damage types, and I believe they are also wrong :
1. Railguns: a solid chunk of matter accelerated by a strong electromagnetic field. Should deal 100% kinetic damage, since there is no atmosphere to heat the projectile by friction.
2. Blasters: They are basically plasma weapons, and so they should deal nearly 100% heat damage and maybe a little bit EM. But kinetic damage from a raw energy plasma?
and 3. Lasers: I never quite understood why focused light is supposed to deal EM damage, maybe some of the more educated gentlemen ih here could enlighten me? |
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