I feel that a lot of new players are put off because they feel like that they will never be able to catch up to older chars from a SP perspective. I've always tried to tell them that once you hit around 12-15m SP, if you focused training to a few ships/fits the rest of the SP rarely matter, anything above that brings flexibility and variety.

Sometimes I sit and talk about the T2 BPO lottery, mining in cruisers, corps having to pool isk for 1 battleship, the introduction of mining barges, nano nerf, etc, and people listen to me like I'm some kind of sorcerer making stories up.

I feel that a lot of new players are put off because they feel like that they will never be able to catch up to older chars from a SP perspective. I've always tried to tell them that once you hit around 12-15m SP, if you focused training to a few ships/fits the rest of the SP rarely matter, anything above that brings flexibility and variety.

Sometimes I sit and talk about the T2 BPO lottery, mining in cruisers, corps having to pool isk for 1 battleship, the introduction of mining barges, nano nerf, etc, and people listen to me like I'm some kind of sorcerer making stories up.

Sometimes I sit and talk about the T2 BPO lottery, mining in cruisers, corps having to pool isk for 1 battleship, the introduction of mining barges, nano nerf, etc, and people listen to me like I'm some kind of sorcerer making stories up.

I'm always complaining about my SP and I've been playing a year xD

Srsly It sucks :P

I feel that a lot of new players are put off because they feel like that they will never be able to catch up to older chars from a SP perspective. I've always tried to tell them that once you hit around 12-15m SP, if you focused training to a few ships/fits the rest of the SP rarely matter, anything above that brings flexibility and variety.

Sometimes I sit and talk about the T2 BPO lottery, mining in cruisers, corps having to pool isk for 1 battleship, the introduction of mining barges, nano nerf, etc, and people listen to me like I'm some kind of sorcerer making stories up.

*pulls up a chair next to the camp fire, starts eating a can of pork and beans* So how was it back in the day? What all has changed?

Its hard for new players to enjoy the game b/c soloing is boring. Unlike most MMOs you can go around and never talk to a soul if you don't need too.

Probably because there's about 100k pilots being born each month...

Chribba you've been around a long time too, whats your perception of how the community has changed?

With all due respect Hemmo, if you want people to read your thoughts you need be more concise. Reading a wall of text is just too arduous.

Sometimes I sit and talk about the T2 BPO lottery, mining in cruisers, corps having to pool isk for 1 battleship, the introduction of mining barges, nano nerf, etc, and people listen to me like I'm some kind of sorcerer making stories up.

i know, dont care, its full with horrible grammar failre aswell... meh who cares lols

Oh I dont judge grammar and such, not everyone was taught english in school. Was suggesting you use fewer words to state your opinion then more will read it. Was constructive criticism

in that case i log in for you and send you 500 mil

hehe I dont need it, help a newbie instead

which defeats the whole purpose of an mmo.

Amen

Bigger != Better either.

Give me 30 pilots that know there ship and role in the fight over 1,000 animated window lickers in rifters any day.

@ hemmo

I understand what you're saying bud. I tried running an alliance once, and it got to 1000 members, but I felt like I was running a daycare, and I would log in, get 30 convos, and I would not want to undock. I was so emotionally/mentally taxed from putting out 50 fires at once, I didn't have the energy to have "fun" anymore. I look back into memory, and I remember how much fun some flavor of the month fits were, and how much fun I had in early wormhole days before whole alliances lived in them, etc.

Though I wish those times would come back, them being gone don't give me a negative feeling towards EVE. I know something new and exciting is around the corner. I don't agree with everything that CCP does but for the most part, though things seem bad in the short term once the dust settles, things are okay. And I stay.

Not to say I don't burn out and go afk for like 2-3 months at a time, I have done that several times and just trained long skills. But something about EVE...always brings me back.

@ Max

I agree. Veteran players have a responsibility to foster and nurture their own game. There is no reason for a lord of the flies attitude. I have killed thousands of ships, destroyed titans, alliances, taken regions, and tried to do everything there is in the game.

But one thing I've always tried to do is find ways to pass that knowledge on. I sit in help channel, answer questions, help new players with concepts, etc. I enjoy teaching. Maybe because I am a professor in the real world, it just spills into the game, but I personally don't know why players call people noobs and trash them. Answer questions and help people.

I don't want new players in my corp, personally, because it wouldn't be beneficial to them or the way I choose to play (very ruthless and unforgiving, I enjoy top tier PVP with skilled players) but outside of PVP I think it's fun to help new players when they have a genuine desire to learn and adapt. Like, my corp requires very high SP/kill requirements, but that is to protect new players as much as us. They would not flourish in our kind of environment with 24/7 fighting against tough opponents, moving around constantly, etc. But I think that when that's not happening, or outside of that environment, veteran players should find opportunities to help new players.

Chribba you've been around a long time too, whats your perception of how the community has changed?

I'm not against being proud of your accomplishments, but trashing noobs shouldn't be the way you do it, thats all. If I had a Tengu I'd be proud as well.


....I want a Tengu...

Not to say I don't burn out and go afk for like 2-3 months at a time, I have done that several times and just trained long skills. But something about EVE...always brings me back.

hehe I dont need it, help a newbie instead

So not being able to fly effectively makes you a "window licker"?

See this is the vet mentality that I'm talking about.

And the thing is YOU were once one of those ignorant window lickers you despise to much, but now that you know the game you want to crap on everyone else still climbing up. It's lame, ridiculous and will kill the game eventually because those noobs you despise? They keep the game running. There is no EVE without us. So keep talking down to us and treating us like s**t. We will stop coming and the damn game will die. Then you'll be a bittervet with nothing to do and your wife will actually have to start spending time with you now.

Amen

Bigger != Better either.

Give me 30 pilots that know there ship and role in the fight over 1,000 animated window lickers in rifters any day.

In the past year, or maybe couple years, I've noticed greatly increased numbers of new characters/players, and fewer older players.

Its hard for new players to enjoy the game b/c soloing is boring. Unlike most MMOs you can go around and never talk to a soul if you don't need too.

To me a lot of vets are irritating. They see themselves as important in a game so they use their "status to talk down to new players in an effort to make themselves feel more relevant. It's extremely lame to me. It's similar to how old people IRL talk rap about the younger generation to boost themselves because they failed at life, meanwhile they have the new Iphone 5 being delivered in the mail...the times must not be all that bad, eh?

Then you have vets who use their experience to help others and overall make the game a better place. The Bitter Vets better thank these types because without them noobs would be leaving in even larger droves. You guys say EVE is player sustained, right? So then you should take responsibility for the retention rates and it starts with the attitudes some of you have towards us. I'm not asking for my hand to be held. Simple and basic respect, for one, towards us when we ask a simple question that to YOU may seem silly goes a long way. Or how about giving a logical and reasonable rebuttal to our concerns if you feel they are unwarranted instead of bashing and name calling? This is an MMO. Who the hell wants to PAY to play with a bunch of self-righteous douchebags???

It's the MAIN reason I left WoW; the community got unbearable. It was as if there was a competition between vets for who could be the biggest a**hole to noobs and each other. Meanwhile I was the level 80/85 helping noobs with quests running them through dungeons, helping them out with gold, teaching them the game, connecting them to guilds that would be a good fit for them based on their long term aspirations. It was fun too, it wasn't a burden at all.

Bottom line, vets in ALL MMOs need to take responsibility for the state of the community because they're the ones who influence it the most.

Probably because there's about 100k pilots being born each month...

Giant wall of hypocricy much?

You're ranting about vets talking down on new players, yet the entire thing is you talking down to vets. I don't expect you to understand that though.

*pulls up a chair next to the camp fire, starts eating a can of pork and beans* So how was it back in the day? What all has changed?

So not being able to fly effectively makes you a "window licker"?

I've played just about every MMO under the sun, from UO to Darkfall and Mortal online; with the rare exception damn near every one of them is a single player online game. There are very few MMO's you will play that encourage any kind of player interaction, and the ones that do require you to interact with other players tend to be **** games.

Well, highsec was actually kind of dangerous and you ran the risk of being ganked, for oneGǪ

I was discussing this with some mates on TS while playing last night, and we got into an interesting topic about player proportions.

I've been playing since 2003, and I used to notice a disproportionate number of older players, vs relatively fewer new players.

In the past year, or maybe couple years, I've noticed greatly increased numbers of new characters/players, and fewer older players. I just wanted to get your guys perspective on player populations and changing demographics of characters/players.

I feel personally that lots of new people is a good thing, it means a healthy game, but I've noticed that a lot of my fellow old timers are going into semi-retirement, moved on, or maybe I notice fewer outside of hardcore null PVP alliances because of higher populations...or maybe I'm just being an idiot and way off base.

What are your thoughts?

I think you're dreaming.....


Have you joined an NPC corp lately? Nothing like an indication of alts when you have 100+ people in channel, and no one is saying a word. Or one person is, and he's not getting any response.
If new people are really joining this game, 90% of them are apparently quitting after the first month......

I don't get this whole "catching up" thing either.

...snip...

"Catching up" is not a valid excuse to not play EVE.

All the old players made swarms of alts. They don't seem to realise it's self-destructive as they are destroying the "ecosystem" of EVE by marginalising the new players.

In all fairness, I learned most about the gaming running the tutorial missions and asking questions in rookie help. If I could not find answers there, I googled what I was looking for and I'd usually find an answer. I pretty much had all of the basic stuff down within the first 2 weeks. I still didn't join an actual corp until like a week or 2 after that. I wanted to make sure I could learn as much as I could on my own. Plus, I was working on the basic core competency cert so I could fit my ships. Not for tech 2 stuff but at least meta 4s. I'm currently working on my tech 2 fitting now.

I too believe in 3 month old alts with 5000 likes as being "New players"

I also believe in fairies......

Positively. fly what you have trained for.



Yes, this is the vet mentality. "Why didn't this guy just ask me for help?"



Was never an ignorant window licker. Always asked if I didn't know. Always learned from mentors and vets. I actually have friends that will help me out if lost.


Now, you've really lost the plot with the personal attack here.

You're saying I despise people that undock in ships they can't fit / fly yet as they are in a rush to be a body on the battle field (objective, 100% to **** up the overview).

Wrong. I "Despair" and "pity" them for having no one to help them suggest the correct ship to bring to be useful.

People that push words into others mouths end up with no teeth. You're probably well aware of this mind you.

haha Wow you're really starting to pop that vein out of your forehead lol

What a reply.

"Window licker" isn't a personal attack??

Dude bottom line you're some anti-social, pimple faced ginger whose only achievement in life is being a "somebody" in a virtual world and unfortunately talking down to and degrading others is the only way for you to sustain this Pixel Pride you have.

You're a ******ing lameass and you unfortunately make veterans look like a bunch of neckbearded, booger-eating virgins.

Quit getting your enjoyment from being a complete tool and learn how to walk tall without needing to step on someone else.

Just out of curiosity, how long does one need to have been playing for to be classed as 'old'?

How many of these, "I'm a new player and I suck at this game so it must be the fault of all the older players" posts do we get tin the forums these days?
Far too many that's for sure. You came here because this isn't WoW and then you complain because it's not as easy as WoW or whatever FPS you grew bored of. Please play and excel at EvE as it is and pretty much has been for 10 years. If you don't own all of null-sec within a month maybe you should adjust your goals or playing style.
This whole "I'm so worried about the new players" lie is boring also, just admit you suck at EvE and you want to make it easier for yourself.

How many of these, "I'm a new player and I suck at this game so it must be the fault of all the older players" posts do we get tin the forums these days?
Far too many that's for sure. You came here because this isn't WoW and then you complain because it's not as easy as WoW or whatever FPS you grew bored of. Please play and excel at EvE as it is and pretty much has been for 10 years. If you don't own all of null-sec within a month maybe you should adjust your goals or playing style.
This whole "I'm so worried about the new players" lie is boring also, just admit you suck at EvE and you want to make it easier for yourself.

One of the Problems with the way the game is setup for new players is they want you to specialize to become good at one thing. The problem comes in that your character is way more "powerful" if they can fly many different things so when an FC says we need more X you can be like i can fly X and switch over. Instead of well i can only fly slasher's and then your FC either has to fit you in to their sniper fleet somehow or come up with another concept or you are basically out there with your ass hanging in the wind with no support.

Power in the game comes from Generalization in practice. New players are often encouraged to train "Support skills" Which are general skills. So the way the game is designed and the way the game plays are at odds with each other and the new player suffers with confusing messages and indicators that they are doing it wrong.

Myself i decided i don't like the Skill que game and now i train skills randomly, because i came to the conclusion i can either let my lack of skills hinder me from having fun or i can just have fun with my corp who excepts whatever i fly regardless of how well i fly it.

But prior to my decision about Skills it was easily the most frustrating part of the game I dreaded whenever my skill que was less then 24hours.

To me a lot of vets are irritating. They see themselves as important in a game so they use their "status to talk down to new players in an effort to make themselves feel more relevant. It's extremely lame to me. It's similar to how old people IRL talk rap about the younger generation to boost themselves because they failed at life, meanwhile they have the new Iphone 5 being delivered in the mail...the times must not be all that bad, eh?

2: Who do you think invented the technology that makes the new Iphone 5 possible? Hint: It's not the younger generation.

You're welcome.

Who do you think will invent the technology that makes all our inventions obsolete? hint its not us.

I started in 2007 and I, too, feel like an old man, sitting on the campfire and telling the kids my stories about old times. Feels weird.

But, EvE is not a casual game and the new players who actually stay in the game for longer are a real benefit to the game. Here we can assume they are open for shifting their mind and adapt, go new ways, think before acting etc. Those who do not survive the first time, wouldn't be of any benefit at all.

Who do you think will invent the technology that makes all our inventions obsolete? hint its not us.