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StiZum Hilidii	Posted - 2005.04.22 20:21:00 - [1] just wondering if any one else read this and thought it had an interesting point or direction. never ebayed in my career but in some ways maybe this is a plausible solution to some of the problems faced by ccp and gamers? Linkage STAN FACTA NON VERBA
kieron	Posted - 2005.04.22 20:24:00 - [2] It is an interesting idea, but most likely something that we would not consider for EVE. We are a one-server game and to go the route that SOE is taking would require another server at the minimum. kieron Community Manager, EVE Online
Necrologic	Posted - 2005.04.22 20:26:00 - [3] this would totally kill eve imo. I'm guessing we are going to see this more and more in online games, but i hope it doesn't happen in eve. _______________________________________________________ Et nunc, reges, intelligite, erudimini, qui judicati terram.
StiZum Hilidii	Posted - 2005.04.22 20:26:00 - [4] fair enough. just thought it has major implications on what the next throng of mmorg's STAN FACTA NON VERBA
Imran	Posted - 2005.04.22 20:43:00 - [5] Agreed, that stuff isnt eve...hope it never happens. silly evercrap
The Ratfink	Posted - 2005.04.22 20:44:00 - [6] This kind of stuff will definately kill the game instead of putting effort into the game someone with deep pockets can achieve the same amount of wealth / skillpoints just by throwing money at it definately would not be a level playing field and also this kind of thing doesn't make it a game anymore it makes it work
Razor Jaxx	Posted - 2005.04.22 20:47:00 - [7] This'll definitely move gaming away from amateurism, and into professionalism, with laws, unions, etc. to boot. Would you imagine the GH-SC heist in such a world, where the sale of in-game currency for cold hard cash is not only supported, but provided by the game makers? Professional Gamer. Call me old-fashioned, but I find this to be an oxymoron. Glad to see EVE won't be taking that route, for now at least.
Blind Fear	Posted - 2005.04.22 20:51:00 - [8] It would take me about 15 seconds to log into the website and torch my account if this happened. Perhaps 30s, if all the other people doing it slow the server.
Dastur	Posted - 2005.04.22 20:54:00 - [9] Call me old fashionned but a game is a game even if monthly subs are paid for it. I already dropped the eq2 account on this news and will drop any on-line "games" that subvert to this scheme. I love gaming, but this sort of thing distorts the meaning of fun and enjoyment. -- It's easy to fly, It's easy to land. The hard part is to land the thing in one piece! --
Burnhard Brutor	Posted - 2005.04.22 20:57:00 - [10] Edited by: Burnhard Brutor on 22/04/2005 20:58:34 I think you are all being a tad unrealistic and short sighted. The next logical step of "virtualising property" is trade of items for real money. It's already happening in Eve (check ebay if you don't believe me) and it will happen whenever there is a demand and people willing to supply it (Virtual Sweatshops - Pakistan, China, all over the place). Taking a small commission on deals would also be an extra revenue stream for developer. There are benefits to users too: a reliable and secure place to buy/sell items YOU HAVE WORKED HARD FOR (yes, you've all said it often enough, playing Eve is often just like 'work' - one of the reasons I haven't played for a while). All in all, it is a fascinating development; a real economy in a Virtual World. Crazy but fascinating. It won't be long after this that legal remedies are applied to virtual property. Sounds insane to us now, but just you wait.... I think it's going to happen, maybe not with Eve right now, but soon this kind of thing will be "normal". (hey, I might start playing again if I can sell those Apocs for real $$$ ).
Necrologic	Posted - 2005.04.22 21:00:00 - [11] Originally by: Burnhard Brutor Edited by: Burnhard Brutor on 22/04/2005 20:58:34 I think you are all being a tad unrealistic and short sighted. The next logical step of "virtualising property" is trade of items for real money. It's already happening in Eve (check ebay if you don't believe me) and it will happen whenever there is a demand and people willing to supply it (Virtual Sweatshops - Pakistan, China, all over the place). Taking a small commission on deals would also be an extra revenue stream for developer. There are benefits to users too: a reliable and secure place to buy/sell items YOU HAVE WORKED HARD FOR (yes, you've all said it often enough, playing Eve is often just like 'work' - one of the reasons I haven't played for a while). All in all, it is a fascinating development; a real economy in a Virtual World. Crazy but fascinating. It won't be long after this that legal remedies are applied to virtual property. Sounds insane to us now, but just you wait.... I think it's going to happen, maybe not with Eve right now, but soon this kind of thing will be "normal". (hey, I might start playing again if I can sell those Apocs for real $$$ ). and then pvp becomes a problem. You are blowing up peoples hard work. Carebear games rule supreme. _______________________________________________________ Et nunc, reges, intelligite, erudimini, qui judicati terram.
StiZum Hilidii	Posted - 2005.04.22 21:03:00 - [12] not sure i would implement it my self .. just found it interesting STAN FACTA NON VERBA
Burnhard Brutor	Posted - 2005.04.22 21:07:00 - [13] Originally by: Necrologic and then pvp becomes a problem. You are blowing up peoples hard work. Carebear games rule supreme. ....absolutely this is true. When you pop someone's arkonor can, you are effectively popping real cash in this scenario. Like I say, it would need legislating for (we are talking in the far future here) - something like a legally binding Ethical Play EULA - if the EULA says killing, stealing and generally being a Xhayphuk is ok, then it's legal!
Razor Jaxx	Posted - 2005.04.22 21:11:00 - [14] Originally by: Burnhard Brutor Edited by: Burnhard Brutor on 22/04/2005 20:58:34 I think you are all being a tad unrealistic and short sighted. The next logical step of "virtualising property" is trade of items for real money. It's already happening in Eve (check ebay if you don't believe me) and it will happen whenever there is a demand and people willing to supply it (Virtual Sweatshops - Pakistan, China, all over the place). Taking a small commission on deals would also be an extra revenue stream for developer. There are benefits to users too: a reliable and secure place to buy/sell items YOU HAVE WORKED HARD FOR (yes, you've all said it often enough, playing Eve is often just like 'work' - one of the reasons I haven't played for a while). All in all, it is a fascinating development; a real economy in a Virtual World. Crazy but fascinating. It won't be long after this that legal remedies are applied to virtual property. Sounds insane to us now, but just you wait.... I think it's going to happen, maybe not with Eve right now, but soon this kind of thing will be "normal". (hey, I might start playing again if I can sell those Apocs for real $$$ ). I'm not saying it's right or wrong, or that it won't happen. I'm only saying it implies a lot of changes because virtual property can then be directly equated to RL currency, which in turn implies liability for in-game actions, and professionalism (aka people making a living out of the game). It wouldn't be a 'game' any more in the traditional sense, so it wouldn't answer my expectations anymore.
ArcticWolf	Posted - 2005.04.22 21:13:00 - [15] This would ruin the game. At least in my mind im imaging say a group of 2000 people, everyone who sells things online, forming an alliance. Their claimes to space would be small, but secure with many POS, farming, mining, all day long with an incredible defence fleet because their defence for the miners are getting PAID real money to make sure the miners make their money on the evebay. There would be all of eve filled with games, then one region filled with workers. Penalties for e-baying need to be more severe.
Nirces Y'Tuk	Posted - 2005.04.22 21:13:00 - [16] some people consider it unfair, some don't. games such as Eve and sony try and ban it. other companies such as EA (UO amoung other games) actively accept it as part of the game (but offer no support for it). It certainly is an active part of any online game, reguardless of how the developers feel about it. as long as everything is earnt through legitmate play, theres no advantage over it, its trading experience and goods between peep, the fact that money is involved has little to do with it. nothing is affected, and pvp'er get to blow the crap out of freshly brought uber chars/equip, because the person in the driving seat has no understanding of PvP. CPP uses alot of resources to block these activies, i would rather these engeries be spent on customer services
Burnhard Brutor	Posted - 2005.04.22 21:17:00 - [17] Originally by: ArcticWolf This would ruin the game. At least in my mind im imaging say a group of 2000 people, everyone who sells things online, forming an alliance. Their claimes to space would be small, but secure with many POS, farming, mining, all day long with an incredible defence fleet because their defence for the miners are getting PAID real money to make sure the miners make their money on the evebay. There would be all of eve filled with games, then one region filled with workers. Penalties for e-baying need to be more severe. This isn't true though is it? In order for people to profit from in-game items, there has to be a market (demand). In a sterile universe ruled by a few clans all "working" to sell their stuff to ordinary players, there wouldn't be a whole lot of ordinary players around to sell to. I suppose that is the feedback in the system that keeps it more or less balanced.
Dianabolic	Posted - 2005.04.22 21:17:00 - [18] Originally by: kieron It is an interesting idea, but most likely something that we would not consider for EVE. We are a one-server game and to go the route that SOE is taking would require another server at the minimum. Please, kieron, get ccp to make us one promise, a promise to keep one server, never shard it, the unique universe in which we live is what keeps us coming back. As for selling things for in-game currency, part of me wishes I could make a living out of eve, heck I play it enough, but that's something that I don't really care about. Just don't shard it. Ever. Please.
Scorpyn	Posted - 2005.04.22 21:20:00 - [19] Edited by: Scorpyn on 22/04/2005 21:22:07 I see no reason to play a game where real life is involved in that way. A game is a game and real life should stay out of it. Originally by: Blind Fear It would take me about 15 seconds to log into the website and torch my account if this happened. Perhaps 30s, if all the other people doing it slow the server. It would take longer for me, as I would probably make a goodbye post first.
MOOstradamus	Posted - 2005.04.22 21:29:00 - [20] Edited by: MOOstradamus on 22/04/2005 21:30:26 /me repeats what he has already said in other threads FANTASTIC NEWS but its a shame CCP/EVE don't follow suit EDIT: BURNHARD BRUTOR* * MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
Juniper	Posted - 2005.04.22 21:30:00 - [21] Originally by: Scorpyn Edited by: Scorpyn on 22/04/2005 21:22:07 I see no reason to play a game where real life is involved in that way. A game is a game and real life should stay out of it. Originally by: Blind Fear It would take me about 15 seconds to log into the website and torch my account if this happened. Perhaps 30s, if all the other people doing it slow the server. It would take longer for me, as I would probably make a goodbye post first. Would you really be so quick to cancel if you thought that your character might actually be worth quite a lot of real money to someone? And that the game company sanction the sale? Nah, didn't think so. I don't think it would be a good idea though. EVE has a pretty delicate balance tbh, you can see that whenever one thing gets slightly out of whack (agent 4 mission rewards for instance) and how lopsided that can make the game very very quickly. Balance is everything for a game like EVE. This would tip the balance for deciding the haves, and the have nots, in the game into the haves and have nots in RL. Sony have other fish to fry, they want to appeal to those who can afford their expensive hifi kit... whereas CCP just want to make games (and maybe dabble in the odd bit of fishing or dairy farming ) -- Gotta sell my stuff...
Pulgor	Posted - 2005.04.22 21:36:00 - [22] If this was implemented in EVE, it would put pirates, corp thieves, scammers, and pretty much anything else that "negitively" impact the game. Because with that any idiot out of law school can prosecute a case whereby all these "Crimes" would be equitable to real funds. It would put 0.0 alliances out of the game too, because they would be monopolies and also there are no warning signs before destruction of assetts. It would ruin the game. ----------------------------------- Pulgor --- In service to Saram. Visit the Ammatar channel ingame!
Balazs Simon	Posted - 2005.04.23 10:00:00 - [23] It would turn the game into a huge carebear land... Loseing real money in combat is not funny!!! I hope it will never happen in EVE.... In a game, where you die, you can just get up and countinue (like in WoW), buying items for cash is not a big problem... but in a game like eve, where you have to work hard for you ship real cash is a big NONO... Someone with a deep pocket could buy a 25 mio char + 10 neavy issue ships with all best named items, and go kill everyone... and he never saw a belt or mining laser, or NPC or agent... In my opinion, no work = no reward in EVE. I hope this wont change.
Nero Scuro	Posted - 2005.04.23 10:07:00 - [24] It has it's pros and it's cons. Cons - I'd quit EVE so fast there'd be nothing but a Nero shaped cloud of dust. Pros - I'd make REAL money in the process! \o/ ---------------- Haha, stupid monkey! Now I'VE got the Oscar! Enjoy your worthless gun!
Viceroy	Posted - 2005.04.23 10:34:00 - [25] That's like letting players buy pieces for $ in a game of chess. Guess what? The whole point of chess just went down the drain. I'd prefer that the poor people in RL be allowed to compete on the same level in a goddamn game if nothing else. -
Tobiaz	Posted - 2005.04.23 11:05:00 - [26] Quote: Some estimates have put an $800m (ú418m) price tag on the global market in game items and cash. Stupid people and money should get a restraining order...
Taz Devlin	Posted - 2005.04.23 11:11:00 - [27] Originally by: Viceroy That's like letting players buy pieces for $ in a game of chess. Guess what? The whole point of chess just went down the drain. I'd prefer that the poor people in RL be allowed to compete on the same level in a goddamn game if nothing else. Word Allways move fast, you never know who's catching up!
Gerome Doutrande	Posted - 2005.04.23 11:16:00 - [28] connecting a game and real life in that way would ruin the game. i for one don't want alliances fighting over ebay income, children working games farming for money or any other of the dozens of other things associated with this (i am aware things like this may have/are happening in mmogs and maybe in eve as well but legalizing this puts it to a whole new level in my view). it's a game, you should play it for fun.
Chrisb6122	Posted - 2005.04.23 11:17:00 - [29] Originally by: Taz Devlin Originally by: Viceroy That's like letting players buy pieces for $ in a game of chess. Guess what? The whole point of chess just went down the drain. I'd prefer that the poor people in RL be allowed to compete on the same level in a goddamn game if nothing else. Word Ditto, students like myself can't afford to buy isk for úúú or $$$, it would lead to a more biased game and certinaly would make me shut up shop Magnet41 > i kill people ingame because i would take a bigger sec if i killed them in rl
Tekka	Posted - 2005.04.23 11:19:00 - [30] Originally by: kieron It is an interesting idea, but most likely something that we would not consider for EVE. We are a one-server game and to go the route that SOE is taking would require another server at the minimum. No, Don't even consider it. [http://www.dark-cartel.com] [http://unholy.killboard.net]

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