please hold while i locate my tiny violin...
do it yourselves you sissies
your plan to increase loot value (and btw that only applies to all BUT the blue loot) is to evict new wh corps, who are pretty much all in low class whs, is bold, it's not like most of the good stuff comes from C5/6...
didn't read most of this btw, so i feel comfortable i put in as much thought into this reply as you did into your plan

1/10

First off, there are 2 components to that juicy sleeper loot. The MNR's are pretty much the only salvage worth anything. And there is the actual blue loot, which is bought by NPC's. So the Blue loot is static, and can't be devalued by farming.

MNR's on the other hand have always fluctuated. But you have done nothing to show that their price dropping has anything to do with the supply side of the equation.

I'd contend that the recent drop in MNR values has as much to do with all of the upcoming nerf's to the favorite T3 in the game. First you have devs saying T3's need to be put down like a rabid dog. And you have the upcoming nerf to Heavy Missiles.

I'd bet more than anything this has more to do with the MNR values right now than anything else. We all know for the higher level WH's the primary loot value comes from the blue loot anyhow, which again, cannot be devalued since they are NPC buy orders.

I'd also suspect that with 0.0 Tengu fleet doctrines, they blow up more T3's than get killed in WH battles anyhow. I'm no expert in 0.0 but as their fleet doctrines change, their need for Tengu's changes as well.

Long story short, there are plenty of reasons for fluctuation in MNR prices. But over farming is only one piece of the equation.

Yes I've seen the chart, but that still is only a partial tale. The yearly chart only goes back to Jan1. And the price is in big decline because there was a huge spike in Feb. If you were to go back 2 years the overal average would look much flatter.

Also, if you look at historical data other than just price, it tells an interesting tale. For example, for the last 90 days, on average there have been more buy orders than sell orders. This would not support a theory of dropping prices due to oversupply.

Either way, none of this supports your assertation that all of this is due to an influx of WH bears.

I will throw a different thought into the mix. I will use me as an example. I run a small corp, and we are 100% WH based. We are looking to grow, now that we have a WH that would support a larger corp. But as of right now, being small can be difficult. We are not opposed to a good fight, but often we will run into one of the larger entities and be easily outnumbered by a large margin. So while I like a good fight, I'm not generally interested in throwing my ship into a fire.

Now some might say I should just join one of the bigger alliances or corps. I see that as backwards though. Joining them would effectively reduce the potential number of targets, as whole groups of corps would suddenly become blue. What you really need is to see small corps like ours grow into a nice small/mid sized corp. One that can field a decent fleet for a fight, while not being so large as to scare off potential targets.

2) Unlike Null/low/High... Wh space doesn't have npc bounties so we are heavily dependent on wh loot market prices and since we have a natural bottle neck, why not use it? And unlike null/low/high we can't cry to CCP about not making enough isk because there are no bounties CCP can buff/nerf for us

lol...
speaking as one of the people who does give out free information to almost anyone, you sound like a MASSIVE carebear wit your 'omg protect my income!' speach.

yeah, nano prices are bottoming out. so?
about 80-90%% of wh income is locked in NPC priced blue books so even if all of the salvage was completely worthless, it wouldnt affect income almost at all.

giving out free info means more people come to WHs.
yes, a lot of them will be carebear farmers but not all.
and hell, even if all of them were carebears, more people in WHs still = more targets.

yes, WHs provide massive income to people who know how to take it.
no, this isnt going to change if the WH population, say, doubles.



this is such utter garbage...
i did a quick check and the loot i have sitting in my loot hanger right now amounts to 1.5bil, of which 1.3bil is blue books which effectively are bounties.

PS: nano prices are largely flooring cos of the HML changes.

Blue Books??= bounties?
Think you spent a little too much time in W-Space mate

And yeah it was just a idea, you are allowed to post ideas (even bad one)

1) The theme of this idea was price control and potential pvp increase.

When the ultimate tactic of most seiged farm only corps is to threaten to Self Destruct their own ships, you know something may not be quite right. Yeah sure it might be satisfactory to watch ships pop, but if you get nothing out of it, you wasted almost 2 days on nothing

2) Unlike Null/low/High... Wh space doesn't have npc bounties so we are heavily dependent on wh loot market prices and since we have a natural bottle neck, why not use it? And unlike null/low/high we can't cry to CCP about not making enough isk because there are no bounties CCP can buff/nerf for us

3) Most WH corps are small so I don't get the argument that you'd have to join a large entity and worry about having too many blues, this isn't nullsec

BASICALLY: If there was a button you could press that could almost instantly increase ALL WH dwellers isk and pvp... would you press it?

What is it that you are looking for?

Is it Gudfites??

If so, I must side with Derath, since I too am in a small corp (well, truthfully, both of my mains are in separate small corps in same alliance).

Quite often I am logged on alone, when BAM!! a group of 10-20 peeps from one of the larger entities connect to where I'm at. I very much like a gudfight, and occaisionally even a whelp or 2.......but I am not suicidal.

I looked at your KB, (no disrespect to Future Corp or SSS), and the last 2 fights you were involved in....... weren't "goodfights", but ganks.

Now, I've been in w-space long enough to know how things roll, and have taken part in my share of ganks as well, but if you "want a gudfight" against some of the smaller entities, you may consider shipping down/trimming down a bit.

Heck, right at this moment, I have TL connected to me thru a chain.....and until I can ascertain how many are where in the chain, I will remain cloaked unless a target of opportunity presents itself.....

TBH you make it sound like the OP is the corps opinion and not one guys opinion, an opinion that i disagree with as i posted above so the above people should be able to differentiate between one persons opinion and a whole corps opinion.

MNR prices are down simply because less people are using them in fleet doctrines in null and less are getting whelped it is that simple.

You link those KM's without knowing anything at all. The ships we killed in the first KM where a smaller part of what they had, we committed a small fleet initially to get them to engage and send in more of their ships to fight. They didn't commit more ships (They where probably not back to full numbers as this was same time as the Insideous OP so can understand that) and some of them got away and we sent in the rest of the fleet to clean things up.

Should the others stay back and not get to KM ***** because it doesn't look fair? It is not like the fleet they had roaming around where mear explorers looking for rainbows and lollipops.

The second KM, you should take note of caps involved and WH mass limitations and realise they where not just ganks but well planned ganks.

@OP

If you're trying to keep the price of wormhole loot high, doesn't that make you a farmer too?



The big wormhole groups who are worth their salt like to train others to do what they love so much. OP clearly wants all the wormhole farming for himself..

Training others to compete against you doing something you love is not counter-productive if you retain YOUR skills. It only adds more depth and excitement to something you love. If you try to prevent other players from living in wormholes and even learning about them, what you end up with is stagnant farming of established blocks.

You don't want "gud fites" you want to farm forever without new corps snapping at your heels. If you wanted fights you wouldn't care about 10% reduction in Melted Nano Ribbon prices.

Obvious motive is obvious.

We classify farmers as those who do the sites and export the ISK to k-space activity.

Wspace is fine, don't mess with it.

essentially +1 what jack has said.
I'm whole heartedly against the idea you propose because i'm too used to rolling into empty systems, while their ability to be almost 100% safe at the minute is frustrating, it is being addressed on december 4th.

Sorry, I thought I kept up well on the patch, but what in the patch affects safety in a WH? Forgive me if I missed something very obvious

I'm uncertain if the following is true also, but isn't there something about not being able to SD inside POS shields?

Lol, people are still posting in this thread... Damn it, so am I!

Atleast the Miner bumper James 315 isnt in WH's.

Check out the devblog about The New and Improved Crimewatch

Specifically this:

"PVP Flag: This flag is activated when one player uses offensive modules against another. The initiator of the action will get a PVP flag. If the recipient is a piloted ship, then the owner of this ship will also get a PVP flag. Having this flag will prevent a ship from being removed from space if the pilot logs off. This flag functions in all areas of space."

and;

"NPC Flag: This flag is activated when a player uses offensive modules against an NPC (or vice-versa). Having this flag will prevent a ship from being removed from space if the pilot logs off. This flag functions in all areas of space."

Admittedly tho, I haven't read all the comments and any other proposals within, yet.

and the most random comment award goes to...
WHs could do with more people like James, not less.

p.s HAI GAIS

Disclaimer: The posts in this thread do not necessarily reflect that of the SSC or FCFTW management. Our official position on the matter is: W-Space is fine. Leave it alone.

To be honest, i'll agree and say that it sounds like you're moaning about people POSing up when a huge fleet comes.. Heck, if im hilariously outnumbered and outgunned, i wont stick around and fight when it means dying without a single chance of at least taking one guy with me... Call be a care-bear all you like, but i prefer fair fights.. don't particularly like getting my PvE ships hot-dropped by 10 T3s... not really that fun, is it?

Well that largely depends on your definition of "fun".....some of us are quite taken with the concept of diving a wormhole against impossible odds and seeing how many of us make it out alive.

my main concern is more that these farmers are making it harder for new groups who want to come to wh space for the fun for the fights not for a isk printing press. to get set up they woudl rather start with a empty wh and build up. than have to try to clear a wh out . This may not even be a issue in c5 space as i am not sure how many empty wh's there are but there is certainly alot of farmers in c6 space and not alot of empty wh's.

Did you just said that pvp corps have problems taking systems from the dead hands of the farms, and thus they can't establish themselves to pvp?

To begin with, I wonder what would a pvp lover be doing in w-space at all. One doesn't need to be a genius to know how hard is to get pvp in w-space (unless you want to be on the losing side), even before going inside one and start living there.

Btw, good luck if you think that kicking people out of wormholes will magically atract new targets (how doesn't this sound ridicolous to you?). WHs are about greedyness and violence to defend your expensive assets or loot (or take it from others). If I wanted pvp I would join a gd null aliance, or go piratey in low.

Alrigth, forget what I said then, but in MY experience, in low class wh's (up to C3), there's not much to be had, save for a stealth bomber that suicided 5 of our BS/BC while we were bashing a POCO 2 days ago.
Other than that I haven't seen a figth in one or two weeks, and I've been mining and salvaging all over the place...

By the way, the quoted text was talking about how pvpers had difficulties taking over farmer-occupied wh's. The 'not as much pvp' was an addition directed to the general sense of the thread.

What does the price of Nano's matter?

More PVP? More PVE?
Where are you going to find that in WH space with the new (no SDing in pos's) taking effect?

Every large WH corp and alliance will be taking down as many pos's as they can in the next month just to see what they can get. Makes you wonder who the farmers really are. What does this mean? It means they are creating the very thing they are complaining about, not enough pilots to shoot. They will of course go after all the small corporations because they very rarely fight one another.

If you are a small corporation with a lot of assets I would pull the expensive stuff out now before they start their stupid pos takedown marathon.

Disseminating information to the masses.

Other than that I haven't seen a figth in one or two weeks, and I've been mining and salvaging all over the place...

Found the problem. If you aren't looking for it you won't find it.

If all you do is open your static(s), and maybe a few more holes, you aren't going to find much. It's like going to null, making 3-4 jumps and throwing your hands up saying "There is no pew in 0.0!"


You have to scan, or roll a ton to find pew. If you hit empire keep scanning.

.. secrets ...

How does one tell the difference between a 15-man corp building up to be competitive and "true" (LOL) residents of W-space and a 15-man farming corp?

Last I checked, mind-reading was still not a thing.

Found the problem. If you aren't looking for it you won't find it.

If all you do is open your static(s), and maybe a few more holes, you aren't going to find much. It's like going to null, making 3-4 jumps and throwing your hands up saying "There is no pew in 0.0!"

You have to scan, or roll a ton to find pew. If you hit empire keep scanning.

Well, sure, but that's exactly why I am currently considering it hard to find. I welcome pvp (or would do if my combat ship hadnt went kaboom already) if it comes trough a gate/hole, but rolling several holes just to maybe destroy something or lose some ship? Meh, can't be bothered.

So be it.

Self-proclamed pvpers like to complain about pvers no matter what, anyway.

Pveing in hi-sec? Omg risk-averse carebears. Why don't they go null. Drop concord protection, let us kill them.
Pveing in wh's? Omg risk-averse carebears. Why do they come wh's. Get out of here.
And so on.

:forums:

.

Did you forget that it was you who proclaimed wormholes devoid of pvp? As such, when presenting a problem like that (based on common sense... otherwise you wouldn't have posted it), and given a very clear and valid reason for why it has been so for you. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean the people here are "self-proclaimed pvpers" that just whiny for the sake of whining.

Fact is, if y ou want something done in this game, you have to work for it. In wormhole space that is magnified tenfold. The rest of the game works nothing like the E-Uni where you have permanent wardecs and others making stuff happen for you by organizing those fleets to do the roams and such.

Seriously, the way you're talking about thing really does make it look like you're not cut for the wormhole life at all.