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High Security does not mean Perfect Security.

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Samanna Aries Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2012.11.25 11:29:00 - [1] - Quote I see the statement made that "hi sec is not perfect sec" quite often. What if hi sec were perfectly secure? I mean no pvp of any type and you were completely unable to harm another player while in hi sec unless there was an active war between your corps. What would the consequences be? Would it impact the players who live out in Null Sec to any significant degree? Would it impact the players who practice piracy in low sec? I know it would have consequences for those who like to gank miners and freighters etc in hi sec but what other changes would occur? I am asking this because I want to know, not because I think this is how it should be. I am curious and looking for an answer.
Snow Axe GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 584	Posted - 2012.11.25 11:34:00 - [2] - Quote A better question to ask is "why should it be?"
Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 1535	Posted - 2012.11.25 11:40:00 - [3] - Quote Considering how much stuff dies in empire, the economy would take a nosedive. You'd see some terrible inflation, and not just because mission-running would go unchecked by us belligerent undesirables, but also because war and insurance fees would no longer eat up a good portion of ISK generation. The high-sec pvpers would leave the game. No, they wouldn't move to null out of necessity. Thus, CCP would lose many thousands of active players, and possibly tens of thousands of active accounts. PLEX prices would skyrocket, not just because of the inflation, but due to increased demand as people roll more alts in order to try and out-compete each other on the market. Uh, it would be bad. It would be very bad. EVE pretty much operates on the concept of the broken window, and taking that away would destroy it. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
Flurk Hellbron Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 162	Posted - 2012.11.25 11:45:00 - [4] - Quote Even better question: What if HS didn't exist?
baltec1 Bat Country 2933	Posted - 2012.11.25 11:47:00 - [5] - Quote Flurk Hellbron wrote: Even better question: What if HS didn't exist? M0o would not have been stopped.
Samanna Aries Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2012.11.25 11:51:00 - [6] - Quote I am interested in answer to my question. If you gentlemen have better questions you could seek answers to them by starting a thread. I would like this thread to be devoted to discussion of the situation I described.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 5267	Posted - 2012.11.25 11:55:00 - [7] - Quote Samanna Aries wrote: I see the statement made that "hi sec is not perfect sec" quite often. What if hi sec were perfectly secure? I mean no pvp of any type and you were completely unable to harm another player while in hi sec unless there was an active war between your corps. What would the consequences be? Would it impact the players who live out in Null Sec to any significant degree? Would it impact the players who practice piracy in low sec? I know it would have consequences for those who like to gank miners and freighters etc in hi sec but what other changes would occur? I am asking this because I want to know, not because I think this is how it should be. I am curious and looking for an answer. I assume that this would also mean that all goods could only be sold for the NPC price, since profiteering certainly hurts my wallet? Pretty quickly, trade hubs would spring up in lo-sec I suppose. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button."
baltec1 Bat Country 2933	Posted - 2012.11.25 11:58:00 - [8] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Pretty quickly, trade hubs would spring up in lo-sec I suppose. Why? You could go shopping in jita and transport hundreds of billions across to wherever you wanted and simply jump freighter it into lowsec. You would have an unstoppable supply line.
Mag's the united Negative Ten. 10732	Posted - 2012.11.25 12:46:00 - [9] - Quote It would be the death of the game tbh. Eve's economy is the engine that keeps the game running. The great amount of ship and module loss in high sec, is a large part of the fuel that drives it. Not only that, but it goes against the whole principle the game was built on. That alone means it would never happen. CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience.
Frying Doom Zat's Affiliated Traders 902	Posted - 2012.11.25 12:49:00 - [10] - Quote Snow Axe wrote: A better question to ask is "why should it be?" The answer would of course be so it did not become a deserted waste land like Null. Where risk vs reward is out of balance. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 10427	Posted - 2012.11.25 12:51:00 - [11] - Quote Samanna Aries wrote: What if hi sec were perfectly secure? Then it would have to be removed from the game and be released under a different nameGÇª maybe something like GÇ£X-¦GÇ¥ would be appropriate. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
Harland White Circle of Fortune 34	Posted - 2012.11.25 12:52:00 - [12] - Quote Obviously null-sec needs to get the **** nerfed out of it to fix the game. Anyone that doesn't see this is kidding themselves. All serious EVE economists agree, and most of CCP agrees. Face it zealots.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 10427	Posted - 2012.11.25 12:58:00 - [13] - Quote Harland White wrote: Obviously null-sec needs to get the **** nerfed out of it to fix the game. Anyone that doesn't see this is kidding themselves. All serious EVE economists agree, and most of CCP agrees. Face it zealots. Yes, that is why they're buffing it. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
Mag's the united Negative Ten. 10732	Posted - 2012.11.25 13:03:00 - [14] - Quote Harland White wrote: Obviously null-sec needs to get the ** nerfed out of it to fix the game. Anyone that doesn't see this is kidding themselves. All serious EVE economists agree, and most of CCP agrees. Face it zealots. CCP Zulu.....** Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience.
Ioci Bad Girl Posse 236	Posted - 2012.11.25 13:08:00 - [15] - Quote Frying Doom wrote: Snow Axe wrote: A better question to ask is "why should it be?" The answer would of course be so it did not become a deserted waste land like Null. Where risk vs reward is out of balance. The monopoly never wanted risk. They wanted a monopoly. I've always thought, if by some freak of Nature I was ever given a Directors role in GSF, rather than disband them, I'd turn all their blues red and leave. It would be so much more fun to watch. R.I.P. Vile Rat
Galaxy Pig Caldari Provisions Caldari State 167	Posted - 2012.11.25 13:18:00 - [16] - Quote The Savior of Highsec James 315, in his infinite patience, has taken the time to answer.
Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 1537	Posted - 2012.11.25 14:55:00 - [17] - Quote Ioci wrote: Frying Doom wrote: Snow Axe wrote: A better question to ask is "why should it be?" The answer would of course be so it did not become a deserted waste land like Null. Where risk vs reward is out of balance. The monopoly never wanted risk. They wanted a monopoly. I've always thought, if by some freak of Nature I was ever given a Directors role in GSF, rather than disband them, I'd turn all their blues red and leave. It would be so much more fun to watch. Posting to confirm that not a single person in GSF looks at alliance tags, or even indeed knows what they are. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
Devon Krah'tor Magis.Erudire.Ratus.Knoen 31	Posted - 2012.11.25 15:13:00 - [18] - Quote inflation, perhaps a whole lot of it... a lot of tears from people who like to gank the stupid, greedy, ignorant and lazy. then business as usual, with hiseccers/lowseccers/WHers/Nullseccers beginning to campaign/whine about the next thing. The reality of it is, very few in hisec take the preperations to ward off or stop a gank because it hurts the bottom line to a degree that in the long run its not financially worth it. It only really hurts noobs and the poor. Almost no one fits tank because over the course of your miners career the extra ore gained by that second MLU2 is going to pay for another mining ship +. This is also the reason that so very few mine in low. Rookie systems could be PvP free zones (wierd in the context of Eve, but helpful) Hisec is way too big, perhaps if it were much much smaller the NullPvP idea wouldn't affect the economy so disastrously. Greater.Insight.Skill.Knowledge
Bump Truck Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 15	Posted - 2012.11.25 15:15:00 - [19] - Quote Personally I would rather the play with no High Sec rather than a more powerful one. It depends if you want an "everyone gets a prize look at the fun minigames on offer" sort of game or whether you want to get thrown into a shark infested sea hugging a sheep's head. EVE is special because it is brutal. Every step away from this hollows the game out a little and leaves is grey. Spreadsheets in space is kind of boring without danger and griefing. So yeah, full secure High Sec, IMO, would just suck a portion of the colour and life out of the game. Though you'd still get bumped and all your cans would be flipped and your loot stolen, but I'm sure they can legislate for that too.
Sergeant Acht Scultz School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 2	Posted - 2012.11.25 15:22:00 - [20] - Quote Samanna Aries wrote: I see the statement made that "hi sec is not perfect sec" quite often. What if hi sec were perfectly secure? This would be horrible for the game and would be a real prejudice for all Eve players. High sec has a huge amount of ships destruction directly influencing industry and trade hubs, removing this would be silly at best and remove players from low/null sec at worst because it would be to much simple to make isk in perfect security. Criminal actions don't have enough drawbacks and are more often buff indirectly than the other way around, witch is silly for a part of space named "high sec", however completely remove wardecs and other "legal" actions to create pvp would have no sense or positive effects at all.
Johan Civire Dirty Curse inc. 194	Posted - 2012.11.25 15:24:00 - [21] - Quote Flurk Hellbron wrote: Even better question: What if HS didn't exist? Without high sec there is no null sec without null sec there is no economie in high sec. we are all part of the system get that true your big skull for ones.
Val'Dore PlanetCorp InterStellar 247	Posted - 2012.11.25 15:26:00 - [22] - Quote I'm all for perfect hi sec. But here are the caveats: 1. NPCs are included in the cease fire, no belt rats, no incursions, no missions in high sec. 2. Asteroids and Ice Belts are also included in the ceasefire, shooting lasers at a rock and eating it like a jar of peanut butter is as hostile as it gets. 3. The only high slot module that can be activated in High Sec will be snowball launchers. Star Jump Drive I invented Tiericide
admiral root Red Galaxy Persona Non Gratis 161	Posted - 2012.11.25 15:29:00 - [23] - Quote Samanna Aries wrote: I mean no pvp of any type This has been answered many times in the past few weeks. Perhaps searching would be good next time? A short summary would be: no market, no mining, no missions, no exploration, no anything that would involve competing with another player. CCP would also need to remove the ship spin counter from highsec, because that can get pretty competitive when you're docked up burning off GCC. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Mallak Azaria GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1134	Posted - 2012.11.25 15:32:00 - [24] - Quote Johan Civire wrote: Flurk Hellbron wrote: Even better question: What if HS didn't exist? Without high sec there is no null sec without null sec there is no economie in high sec. we are all part of the system get that true your big skull for ones. We'd just adapt with out highsec. Sure, it would be difficult & strange at first, but the one thing we've always been able to do is adapt. Crimewatch 2.0: Protecting stupid people & rewarding lazy people. This hurts the smart & industrious people by making their intelligence & industry provide them with less benefit over the stupid & lazy people. ~ Ruby Porto
Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 1538	Posted - 2012.11.25 15:39:00 - [25] - Quote Mallak Azaria wrote: Johan Civire wrote: Flurk Hellbron wrote: Even better question: What if HS didn't exist? Without high sec there is no null sec without null sec there is no economie in high sec. we are all part of the system get that true your big skull for ones. We'd just adapt with out highsec. Sure, it would be difficult & strange at first, but the one thing we've always been able to do is adapt. How do you adapt to an empty server? (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. 1174	Posted - 2012.11.25 17:31:00 - [26] - Quote Remember the question was "Whats the effect of no high sec PvP except for wars" In other words, what would be the effect on the game if suicide ganking was removed? To answer the question on how this would effect the economy, we need to know the proportion of destruction that occurs due to suicide ganking. If only 1% of everything made in the game is destroyed by suicide ganking, the the effect on the economy will be tiny. If its like 25% then the effect would be large. I suspect the number is small. Many things made never die to a suicide gank: Capital ships, and supercaps. Some things rarely die: POSes and their arrays (only if they are cargo), and Battleships. If CCP would chime in with the % of losses that occur due to criminal activity, we would know. Another effect is anyone that wants to avoid PvP could do so completely by being in an NPC corp. Their ranks would grow. Note this group includes players who just do not enjoy PvP combat, and those who do like PvP, but want to hide their ISK making activities from their enemies. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/
Generals4 1578	Posted - 2012.11.25 17:57:00 - [27] - Quote Samanna Aries wrote: I see the statement made that "hi sec is not perfect sec" quite often. What if hi sec were perfectly secure? I mean no pvp of any type and you were completely unable to harm another player while in hi sec unless there was an active war between your corps. What would the consequences be? Would it impact the players who live out in Null Sec to any significant degree? Would it impact the players who practice piracy in low sec? I know it would have consequences for those who like to gank miners and freighters etc in hi sec but what other changes would occur? I am asking this because I want to know, not because I think this is how it should be. I am curious and looking for an answer. Well i guess hauling in high sec would become easier and mining safer. And people wouldn't hide in NPC corps to avoid being wardec'ed. To be totally honest i don't think a entirely secure high sec would change that much. When i was in high sec i never felt threatened and did what i did without being concerned about PVP. *-Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily.*
Nerf Burger Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 78	Posted - 2012.11.25 18:09:00 - [28] - Quote high sec can mean perfect security, no reason it can't. Its a sandbox game. If you want a game with no safety zones, go play darkfall and quit crying. "I think weGÇÖre just getting closer and closer to a place where the people we lose are people that itGÇÖs okay to lose." -Kristoffer Touborg, Eve lead designer
Karrl Tian Yarrbusters 41	Posted - 2012.11.25 18:12:00 - [29] - Quote It's perfectly safe as long as you're in an NPC corp, avoid deliberately pissing people off, never autopilot in your pod and never have enough in your hold/fittings to make suiciding you profitable.
Caliph Muhammed Short Bus Friends 303	Posted - 2012.11.25 18:15:00 - [30] - Quote Johan Civire wrote: Flurk Hellbron wrote: Even better question: What if HS didn't exist? Without high sec there is no null sec without null sec there is no economie in high sec. we are all part of the system get that true your big skull for ones. By "true" you mean through and "ones" you mean once. Just trying to help.

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