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another hidden laser nerf... enough is enough !

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Tas Devil	Posted - 2005.04.27 18:01:00 - [1] Did anyone notice that Monday's patch nerfed the microwave crystal from 50% range bonus to 40% and the IR crystal from 25% to 20% ??? That was not annouced but hidden in Monday's patch... I found out when I stopped hitting anything at my before patch ideal range using microwave crystals and large beam lasers... if anything its a pain for those that have set up sniping bookmmarks etc...all that work must now be redone because their exists no more crystal with a 50% range bonus.... only a 40% or 60%.... For those that think this makes no difference... on a proper setup we are talking a difference of close to 15km optimal range with a fall off of 18-19km.... that will screw any pre made bookmark.... so yes I am ****ed off at this silent nerf ...cool to kill radio crystals... but not so cool to slide the killing down the whole sniping range of crystals !
Romulus Maximus	Posted - 2005.04.27 18:14:00 - [2] hmm, i havent checked, if this is correct then thats lame. I thought this patch wasnt to include any changes , and im pretty sure its not in the notes. If ur gonna bend us over, at leats tell us
Shayla Sh'inlux	Posted - 2005.04.27 18:15:00 - [3] Quote: For those that think this makes no difference... on a proper setup we are talking a difference of close to 15km optimal range with a fall off of 18-19km.... that will screw any pre made bookmark.... (1) Range modifiers don't affect falloff. (2) Can't you just warp to your bookmark at 30km then? If you made a sniping spot to warp to at 60km, your bookmark was already in need of updating anyway. ------------------------------------------------------- "Do you really think that's air you're breathing?"
Alyth	Posted - 2005.04.27 18:16:00 - [4] No other ammo type gets a +50% range ammo, looks like they were brought in line with the others.
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2005.04.27 18:23:00 - [5] OMG HOW CAN THEY DO THIS?! THIS WAS NOT IN THE PATCHNOTES, THIS WAS UNEXPECTED! Im sorry, just trying to be surprised here. Which, frankly, im not. PS: Anyone up for a bet: Projectile nerf in 6 months, lasers get to own again and hybrids hang balanced in the middle as usual? /Elve New Video out! Watch me!
Grimpak	Posted - 2005.04.27 18:35:00 - [6] Originally by: Elve Sorrow OMG HOW CAN THEY DO THIS?! THIS WAS NOT IN THE PATCHNOTES, THIS WAS UNEXPECTED! Im sorry, just trying to be surprised here. Which, frankly, im not. PS: Anyone up for a bet: Projectile nerf in 6 months, lasers get to own again and hybrids hang balanced in the middle as usual? ...I would say 3 to 4 months, and not 6. ------------------- Quote: Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
PaulAtreides	Posted - 2005.04.27 18:36:00 - [7] Im thinking of fitting blasters to my Apoc. Want to work for me?
Roba	Posted - 2005.04.27 19:10:00 - [8] Originally by: PaulAtreides Im thinking of fitting blasters to my Apoc. No no!!! Fit 8 1400mm and 6 dmg mods. Quanity of Quality.
Rasta Rocketman	Posted - 2005.04.27 20:08:00 - [9] Did this nerf not allow the 120km sniping in EWOK? Come closer....clloooossssseeeerrrrrr, so we can kill you. _______________________________________________ "I spilled spot remover on my dog....now he's gone." -Steven Wright
Akaviri	Posted - 2005.04.27 20:19:00 - [10] Sometimes I think that whoever is coding is playing around with all sorts of numbers that really don't have to do with the problem at hand. Then that person does the work he is supposed to and forgets to undo his changes to other stuff. Patch goes out and there are hidden nerfs. ````````````` _ \|\_ ````````````` \` oo\ ````````_____/ =__Y= `````` /` `````` ) `_``` / ` , ``` \/\_.(\_/) ((____\| `` )_--\ \_-`(x.x) `------'`------` `--` (> <) Kitty pwns Bunny!
Alyth	Posted - 2005.04.27 20:28:00 - [11] Originally by: Akaviri Sometimes I think that whoever is coding is playing around with all sorts of numbers that really don't have to do with the problem at hand. Then that person does the work he is supposed to and forgets to undo his changes to other stuff. Patch goes out and there are hidden nerfs. /me wonders why this is still being called a nerf seeing as the stat was wrong in the first place.
Shamis Orzoz	Posted - 2005.04.27 20:32:00 - [12] Don't worry taz, it should only take you a an hour to remake your bookmarks and then you can get back to your snipersmacking in ewok.
Weirda	Posted - 2005.04.27 20:33:00 - [13] Edited by: Weirda on 27/04/2005 20:37:16 Edited by: Weirda on 27/04/2005 20:34:57 _____________ \|_Wambulance_\_ \|______________\| __O_________O________>-\|o____<-- another fallen amarr Didn't he get the memo? / Bah - my arms are nerfed??! O O/ \| \| <-- Two Minmatar hangin at the scene... /\ /\ Sorry - but there is nothing in Weirda's heart that plays a violin for this 'nerf' - iwrc, this was a planned ammo change (whether or not it was actually planned to be released is another questions). killing radio crystals... well... everyone gripes about EM... but... look at it vs. other races primary damage type (the one that they either get bonuses to on their missiles, or their most powerful ammo uses): Race_______DMG Type____SH____AR____Average Minmatar...Explosive...60....10....35 Amarr......EM...........0....60....30 Caldari....Kinetic.....40....25....32.5 Galliente..Thermal.....20....35....27.5 So how is EM such a crappy damage type? It is the second best - with the base resistances. The armor is upped by 10 on the natural enemy of the race (i.e. Amarr have 20 explosive, and Minmatar have 70 EM) - but the relative averages are all the same. Also, when people harden all 4 types, or a couple types, the relationships will also be the same (actually, with 4 hardeners on armor - EM would be the LOWEST resistance, since someone would be more likely to double stack their EX). Anyhow - sorry if all of this is off topic, but you have to realize that all these minor tweaks and balances are not 'nerfs' or otherwise... some of them are... some of them are necessary... and some of them AREN'T. What get irritating to Weirda is that there is a BIG PICTURE in how all of these relate together - and far too often people only look at the LITTLE PICTURE (i.e. how it relates to them or their silly sniping bookmarks), and they go flying off the handle... Guess that's our job though - always looking out for #1... -- Thread Killer <END TRANSMISSION>
Meridius	Posted - 2005.04.27 20:36:00 - [14] Originally by: Alyth Originally by: Akaviri Sometimes I think that whoever is coding is playing around with all sorts of numbers that really don't have to do with the problem at hand. Then that person does the work he is supposed to and forgets to undo his changes to other stuff. Patch goes out and there are hidden nerfs. /me wonders why this is still being called a nerf seeing as the stat was wrong in the first place. Radio does only 1 damage type, that must be wrong because no other ammo is constricted to 1 damage type. Good logic there buddy ________________________________________________________
Weirda	Posted - 2005.04.27 20:39:00 - [15] Originally by: Meridius Radio does only 1 damage type, that must be wrong because no other ammo is constricted to 1 damage type. Good logic there buddy Read Weirda's post (which probably wasn't there before you posted) as to how 'crappy' your precious EM is.... And all Missiles are ammo... and they are restricted to one damage type... -- Thread Killer <END TRANSMISSION>
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.04.27 20:46:00 - [16] Against any proper tank EM is the best damage type around. And so crystals where pulled in line with the same range modifiers as projectile and hybrid ammo. /me agrees with Weirda... scary. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2005.04.27 20:48:00 - [17] Honestly Meridius, just drop it. In 6 months time, we'll go kill some Tempests with our then uber Apocs and Zealots and they'll go whine. And how am i going to laugh. /Elve New Video out! Watch me!
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.04.27 20:49:00 - [18] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Honestly Meridius, just drop it. And now I'm agreeing with you too... k only in part, but still. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Weirda	Posted - 2005.04.27 20:50:00 - [19] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Honestly Meridius, just drop it. In 6 months time, we'll go kill some Tempests with our then uber Apocs and Zealots and they'll go whine. And how am i going to laugh. You will not find Weirda whining anywhere - when Matari were 'nerfed' they had even more advantage, since nobody was 'stupid enough' to continue flying them... The point, Weirda will be laughing right along with you! -- Thread Killer <END TRANSMISSION>
Meridius	Posted - 2005.04.27 20:55:00 - [20] Originally by: Weirda The armor is upped by 10 on the natural enemy of the race (i.e. Amarr have 20 explosive, and Minmatar have 70 EM) - but the relative averages are all the same. So you're saying that a flat 10% flat armor res gain on 10% base is the same as 10% flat on 60% base? Minmatar suck at math 100dmg to Base 60% EM res: 100 * 0.4 = 40 100dmg to Base + 10% racial bonus: 100 * 0.3 = 30 That is a 33.3% reduction in damage. 100dmg to Base 10% EXP res: 100 * 0.9 = 90 100dmg to Base + 10% racial bonus: 100 * 0.8 = 80 That is a 12.5% reduction in damage. The same pattern continues with tech 2 resists (+20% flat). There is a reason why armor hardners do not give flat bonus's. Why racial bonus's are not calculated in the same (balanced) fashion is completely beyond me. Further more, i'm pretty sick of hearing how good EM is. It's not even constricted to Amarr to begin with so the point is totally moot. EMP, the most *****d out ammo type by minmatar does primarily EM damage. 45% of the damage coming out of EMP is EM. Yeah, that really makes sense ________________________________________________________
Akaviri	Posted - 2005.04.27 21:19:00 - [21] Originally by: Alyth Originally by: Akaviri Sometimes I think that whoever is coding is playing around with all sorts of numbers that really don't have to do with the problem at hand. Then that person does the work he is supposed to and forgets to undo his changes to other stuff. Patch goes out and there are hidden nerfs. /me wonders why this is still being called a nerf seeing as the stat was wrong in the first place. Sorry I used the "n" word, but I was referring to changes that aren't in the patch notes, like what they did to small armor rep II's by changing the grid and cpu and not mentioning it. Even if this ammo change was planned, it should have been mentioned in the patch notes. ````````````` _ \|\_ ````````````` \` oo\ ````````_____/ =__Y= `````` /` `````` ) `_``` / ` , ``` \/\_.(\_/) ((____\| `` )_--\ \_-`(x.x) `------'`------` `--` (> <) Kitty pwns Bunny!
Weirda	Posted - 2005.04.27 21:56:00 - [22] Edited by: Weirda on 27/04/2005 22:04:33 Originally by: Meridius Minmatar suck at math 100dmg to Base 60% EM res: 100 * 0.4 = 40 100dmg to Base + 10% racial bonus: 100 * 0.3 = 30 That is a 33.3% reduction in damage. 100dmg to Base 10% EXP res: 100 * 0.9 = 90 100dmg to Base + 10% racial bonus: 100 * 0.8 = 80 That is a 12.5% reduction in damage. The same pattern continues with tech 2 resists (+20% flat). While it IS true that Minmatar suck at math (), the net result of average resistance across shield and armor is the same. Point taken though (touche'), as Weirda generally don't care about shields on Amarr ships (they're just a 'coating'), and quite infrequently on Matari ships as well... Originally by: Merdius EMP, the most *****d out ammo type by minmatar does primarily EM damage. 45% of the damage coming out of EMP is EM. Yeah, that really makes sense On the whole - Explosive is the most used damage in all Projectile, and Kinetic is second (this is even more pronounced with the ammo changes). EDIT - in spite of all of our bickering - Weirda still have best damned sig in EvE, from you no less! -- Thread Killer <END TRANSMISSION>
Palthos	Posted - 2005.04.27 22:19:00 - [23] I totally did not notice this. Thanks for posting so I can adapt. Palthos takes off 1 cap relay and puts on a tracking enhancer II Problem solved, got anything else CCP?
Meridius	Posted - 2005.04.27 23:25:00 - [24] Originally by: Weirda On the whole - Explosive is the most used damage in all Projectile, and Kinetic is second (this is even more pronounced with the ammo changes). Illogical. The most common damage type found in projectiles is irrelevent. The most commonly used ammo type is EMP. EMP has a 45.4% EM output. When i see a Tempest, the average explosive content of all projectile ammo does not enter my mind, EMP does Originally by: Weirda EDIT - in spite of all of our bickering - Weirda still have best damned sig in EvE, from you no less! It's not bickering, it's arguing. Arguing is healthy. It keeps the mind strong and you learn new things (mostly when you're wrong) ________________________________________________________
Weirda	Posted - 2005.04.28 00:39:00 - [25] Originally by: Meridius When i see a Tempest, the average explosive content of all projectile ammo does not enter my mind, EMP does[) Look at the Ammo changes though - Phased Plasma will have the highest raw damage output (due to stock resistances), which is irrelivant since those are the two most hardened types... with EMP and Fusion about equal, Weirda will likeley not have EMP loaded in more then one of Turrets - though this is why Weirda have always done very well against Enemies that are expecting the most common damage... and why Weirda LOVE the projectile ammo changes (heheh - down to 3 ranges? Who cares - would rather use -50% on all my autocannons thank you very much - and 0% on all artillerys... never snipe - but +50% and choosing damage types is much better then being stuck with the least damage at the most range)... Anyhow - Cheers! ON TOPIC (for once - Weirda not very good at that) - IR has been most common for apoc with megabeams for me. The range change is irrelivant since always sitting below optimal anways. With a tracking computer II, skills and otherwise, it's effective from 20km-60km, which suits just fine. -- Thread Killer <END TRANSMISSION>
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.04.28 00:45:00 - [26] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Weirda On the whole - Explosive is the most used damage in all Projectile, and Kinetic is second (this is even more pronounced with the ammo changes). Illogical. The most common damage type found in projectiles is irrelevent. The most commonly used ammo type is EMP. EMP has a 45.4% EM output. When i see a Tempest, the average explosive content of all projectile ammo does not enter my mind, EMP does Originally by: Weirda EDIT - in spite of all of our bickering - Weirda still have best damned sig in EvE, from you no less! It's not bickering, it's arguing. Arguing is healthy. It keeps the mind strong and you learn new things (mostly when you're wrong) Which is why my Claw tends to kick AF's arround. Assumptions are tasty. "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Berilac	Posted - 2005.04.28 03:15:00 - [27] your claw kicks af's around because it has a base 80% em dmg resist, and 280's, a rediculiously overpowered weapon that takes nearly no cap to fire, and has a wide selection of damage types to ignore a af's highest bonus, all that, and exceptional range to boot. --- 'Sweeden Steel Bite hard'
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.04.28 07:40:00 - [28] Edited by: Gariuys on 28/04/2005 07:41:52 Originally by: Berilac your claw kicks af's around because it has a base 80% em dmg resist, and 280's, a rediculiously overpowered weapon that takes nearly no cap to fire, and has a wide selection of damage types to ignore a af's highest bonus, all that, and exceptional range to boot. Ehm what are you smoking? 280s rediculiously overpowered? On a CLAW... WTH uses 280s on a claw. 80% em resist a I win button... yeah cause beyond amarr all AFs use EM almost exclusively... oh wait. You're right about one thing though, minnies can switch ammo to try going for the lowest resist. Which comes in really handy. Even though we got lots of minnies saying it ain't all that. And assumption is really nice... but it works in so many layers... /me pats explosive hardner. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Cmdr Sy	Posted - 2005.04.28 11:08:00 - [29] Originally by: Tas Devil Did anyone notice that Monday's patch nerfed the microwave crystal from 50% range bonus to 40% and the IR crystal from 25% to 20% ??? It was like this well before Exodus. Nothing changed.
Bad'Boy	Posted - 2005.04.28 11:36:00 - [30] cry me a river B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"

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