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Tas Devil	Posted - 2005.04.27 18:01:00 - [1] Did anyone notice that Monday's patch nerfed the microwave crystal from 50% range bonus to 40% and the IR crystal from 25% to 20% ??? That was not annouced but hidden in Monday's patch... I found out when I stopped hitting anything at my before patch ideal range using microwave crystals and large beam lasers... if anything its a pain for those that have set up sniping bookmmarks etc...all that work must now be redone because their exists no more crystal with a 50% range bonus.... only a 40% or 60%.... For those that think this makes no difference... on a proper setup we are talking a difference of close to 15km optimal range with a fall off of 18-19km.... that will screw any pre made bookmark.... so yes I am ****ed off at this silent nerf ...cool to kill radio crystals... but not so cool to slide the killing down the whole sniping range of crystals !
Romulus Maximus	Posted - 2005.04.27 18:14:00 - [2] hmm, i havent checked, if this is correct then thats lame. I thought this patch wasnt to include any changes , and im pretty sure its not in the notes. If ur gonna bend us over, at leats tell us
Shayla Sh'inlux	Posted - 2005.04.27 18:15:00 - [3] Quote: For those that think this makes no difference... on a proper setup we are talking a difference of close to 15km optimal range with a fall off of 18-19km.... that will screw any pre made bookmark.... (1) Range modifiers don't affect falloff. (2) Can't you just warp to your bookmark at 30km then? If you made a sniping spot to warp to at 60km, your bookmark was already in need of updating anyway. ------------------------------------------------------- "Do you really think that's air you're breathing?"
Alyth	Posted - 2005.04.27 18:16:00 - [4] No other ammo type gets a +50% range ammo, looks like they were brought in line with the others.
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2005.04.27 18:23:00 - [5] OMG HOW CAN THEY DO THIS?! THIS WAS NOT IN THE PATCHNOTES, THIS WAS UNEXPECTED! Im sorry, just trying to be surprised here. Which, frankly, im not. PS: Anyone up for a bet: Projectile nerf in 6 months, lasers get to own again and hybrids hang balanced in the middle as usual? /Elve New Video out! Watch me!
Grimpak	Posted - 2005.04.27 18:35:00 - [6] Originally by: Elve Sorrow OMG HOW CAN THEY DO THIS?! THIS WAS NOT IN THE PATCHNOTES, THIS WAS UNEXPECTED! Im sorry, just trying to be surprised here. Which, frankly, im not. PS: Anyone up for a bet: Projectile nerf in 6 months, lasers get to own again and hybrids hang balanced in the middle as usual? ...I would say 3 to 4 months, and not 6. ------------------- Quote: Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
PaulAtreides	Posted - 2005.04.27 18:36:00 - [7] Im thinking of fitting blasters to my Apoc. Want to work for me?
Roba	Posted - 2005.04.27 19:10:00 - [8] Originally by: PaulAtreides Im thinking of fitting blasters to my Apoc. No no!!! Fit 8 1400mm and 6 dmg mods. Quanity of Quality.
Rasta Rocketman	Posted - 2005.04.27 20:08:00 - [9] Did this nerf not allow the 120km sniping in EWOK? Come closer....clloooossssseeeerrrrrr, so we can kill you. _______________________________________________ "I spilled spot remover on my dog....now he's gone." -Steven Wright
Akaviri	Posted - 2005.04.27 20:19:00 - [10] Sometimes I think that whoever is coding is playing around with all sorts of numbers that really don't have to do with the problem at hand. Then that person does the work he is supposed to and forgets to undo his changes to other stuff. Patch goes out and there are hidden nerfs. ````````````` _ \|\_ ````````````` \` oo\ ````````_____/ =__Y= `````` /` `````` ) `_``` / ` , ``` \/\_.(\_/) ((____\| `` )_--\ \_-`(x.x) `------'`------` `--` (> <) Kitty pwns Bunny!
Alyth	Posted - 2005.04.27 20:28:00 - [11] Originally by: Akaviri Sometimes I think that whoever is coding is playing around with all sorts of numbers that really don't have to do with the problem at hand. Then that person does the work he is supposed to and forgets to undo his changes to other stuff. Patch goes out and there are hidden nerfs. /me wonders why this is still being called a nerf seeing as the stat was wrong in the first place.
Shamis Orzoz	Posted - 2005.04.27 20:32:00 - [12] Don't worry taz, it should only take you a an hour to remake your bookmarks and then you can get back to your snipersmacking in ewok.
Weirda	Posted - 2005.04.27 20:33:00 - [13] Edited by: Weirda on 27/04/2005 20:37:16 Edited by: Weirda on 27/04/2005 20:34:57 _____________ \|_Wambulance_\_ \|______________\| __O_________O________>-\|o____<-- another fallen amarr Didn't he get the memo? / Bah - my arms are nerfed??! O O/ \| \| <-- Two Minmatar hangin at the scene... /\ /\ Sorry - but there is nothing in Weirda's heart that plays a violin for this 'nerf' - iwrc, this was a planned ammo change (whether or not it was actually planned to be released is another questions). killing radio crystals... well... everyone gripes about EM... but... look at it vs. other races primary damage type (the one that they either get bonuses to on their missiles, or their most powerful ammo uses): Race_______DMG Type____SH____AR____Average Minmatar...Explosive...60....10....35 Amarr......EM...........0....60....30 Caldari....Kinetic.....40....25....32.5 Galliente..Thermal.....20....35....27.5 So how is EM such a crappy damage type? It is the second best - with the base resistances. The armor is upped by 10 on the natural enemy of the race (i.e. Amarr have 20 explosive, and Minmatar have 70 EM) - but the relative averages are all the same. Also, when people harden all 4 types, or a couple types, the relationships will also be the same (actually, with 4 hardeners on armor - EM would be the LOWEST resistance, since someone would be more likely to double stack their EX). Anyhow - sorry if all of this is off topic, but you have to realize that all these minor tweaks and balances are not 'nerfs' or otherwise... some of them are... some of them are necessary... and some of them AREN'T. What get irritating to Weirda is that there is a BIG PICTURE in how all of these relate together - and far too often people only look at the LITTLE PICTURE (i.e. how it relates to them or their silly sniping bookmarks), and they go flying off the handle... Guess that's our job though - always looking out for #1... -- Thread Killer <END TRANSMISSION>
Meridius	Posted - 2005.04.27 20:36:00 - [14] Originally by: Alyth Originally by: Akaviri Sometimes I think that whoever is coding is playing around with all sorts of numbers that really don't have to do with the problem at hand. Then that person does the work he is supposed to and forgets to undo his changes to other stuff. Patch goes out and there are hidden nerfs. /me wonders why this is still being called a nerf seeing as the stat was wrong in the first place. Radio does only 1 damage type, that must be wrong because no other ammo is constricted to 1 damage type. Good logic there buddy ________________________________________________________
Weirda	Posted - 2005.04.27 20:39:00 - [15] Originally by: Meridius Radio does only 1 damage type, that must be wrong because no other ammo is constricted to 1 damage type. Good logic there buddy Read Weirda's post (which probably wasn't there before you posted) as to how 'crappy' your precious EM is.... And all Missiles are ammo... and they are restricted to one damage type... -- Thread Killer <END TRANSMISSION>
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.04.27 20:46:00 - [16] Against any proper tank EM is the best damage type around. And so crystals where pulled in line with the same range modifiers as projectile and hybrid ammo. /me agrees with Weirda... scary. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2005.04.27 20:48:00 - [17] Honestly Meridius, just drop it. In 6 months time, we'll go kill some Tempests with our then uber Apocs and Zealots and they'll go whine. And how am i going to laugh. /Elve New Video out! Watch me!
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.04.27 20:49:00 - [18] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Honestly Meridius, just drop it. And now I'm agreeing with you too... k only in part, but still. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Weirda	Posted - 2005.04.27 20:50:00 - [19] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Honestly Meridius, just drop it. In 6 months time, we'll go kill some Tempests with our then uber Apocs and Zealots and they'll go whine. And how am i going to laugh. You will not find Weirda whining anywhere - when Matari were 'nerfed' they had even more advantage, since nobody was 'stupid enough' to continue flying them... The point, Weirda will be laughing right along with you! -- Thread Killer <END TRANSMISSION>
Meridius	Posted - 2005.04.27 20:55:00 - [20] Originally by: Weirda The armor is upped by 10 on the natural enemy of the race (i.e. Amarr have 20 explosive, and Minmatar have 70 EM) - but the relative averages are all the same. So you're saying that a flat 10% flat armor res gain on 10% base is the same as 10% flat on 60% base? Minmatar suck at math 100dmg to Base 60% EM res: 100 * 0.4 = 40 100dmg to Base + 10% racial bonus: 100 * 0.3 = 30 That is a 33.3% reduction in damage. 100dmg to Base 10% EXP res: 100 * 0.9 = 90 100dmg to Base + 10% racial bonus: 100 * 0.8 = 80 That is a 12.5% reduction in damage. The same pattern continues with tech 2 resists (+20% flat). There is a reason why armor hardners do not give flat bonus's. Why racial bonus's are not calculated in the same (balanced) fashion is completely beyond me. Further more, i'm pretty sick of hearing how good EM is. It's not even constricted to Amarr to begin with so the point is totally moot. EMP, the most *****d out ammo type by minmatar does primarily EM damage. 45% of the damage coming out of EMP is EM. Yeah, that really makes sense ________________________________________________________
Akaviri	Posted - 2005.04.27 21:19:00 - [21] Originally by: Alyth Originally by: Akaviri Sometimes I think that whoever is coding is playing around with all sorts of numbers that really don't have to do with the problem at hand. Then that person does the work he is supposed to and forgets to undo his changes to other stuff. Patch goes out and there are hidden nerfs. /me wonders why this is still being called a nerf seeing as the stat was wrong in the first place. Sorry I used the "n" word, but I was referring to changes that aren't in the patch notes, like what they did to small armor rep II's by changing the grid and cpu and not mentioning it. Even if this ammo change was planned, it should have been mentioned in the patch notes. ````````````` _ \|\_ ````````````` \` oo\ ````````_____/ =__Y= `````` /` `````` ) `_``` / ` , ``` \/\_.(\_/) ((____\| `` )_--\ \_-`(x.x) `------'`------` `--` (> <) Kitty pwns Bunny!
Weirda	Posted - 2005.04.27 21:56:00 - [22] Edited by: Weirda on 27/04/2005 22:04:33 Originally by: Meridius Minmatar suck at math 100dmg to Base 60% EM res: 100 * 0.4 = 40 100dmg to Base + 10% racial bonus: 100 * 0.3 = 30 That is a 33.3% reduction in damage. 100dmg to Base 10% EXP res: 100 * 0.9 = 90 100dmg to Base + 10% racial bonus: 100 * 0.8 = 80 That is a 12.5% reduction in damage. The same pattern continues with tech 2 resists (+20% flat). While it IS true that Minmatar suck at math (), the net result of average resistance across shield and armor is the same. Point taken though (touche'), as Weirda generally don't care about shields on Amarr ships (they're just a 'coating'), and quite infrequently on Matari ships as well... Originally by: Merdius EMP, the most *****d out ammo type by minmatar does primarily EM damage. 45% of the damage coming out of EMP is EM. Yeah, that really makes sense On the whole - Explosive is the most used damage in all Projectile, and Kinetic is second (this is even more pronounced with the ammo changes). EDIT - in spite of all of our bickering - Weirda still have best damned sig in EvE, from you no less! -- Thread Killer <END TRANSMISSION>
Palthos	Posted - 2005.04.27 22:19:00 - [23] I totally did not notice this. Thanks for posting so I can adapt. Palthos takes off 1 cap relay and puts on a tracking enhancer II Problem solved, got anything else CCP?
Meridius	Posted - 2005.04.27 23:25:00 - [24] Originally by: Weirda On the whole - Explosive is the most used damage in all Projectile, and Kinetic is second (this is even more pronounced with the ammo changes). Illogical. The most common damage type found in projectiles is irrelevent. The most commonly used ammo type is EMP. EMP has a 45.4% EM output. When i see a Tempest, the average explosive content of all projectile ammo does not enter my mind, EMP does Originally by: Weirda EDIT - in spite of all of our bickering - Weirda still have best damned sig in EvE, from you no less! It's not bickering, it's arguing. Arguing is healthy. It keeps the mind strong and you learn new things (mostly when you're wrong) ________________________________________________________
Weirda	Posted - 2005.04.28 00:39:00 - [25] Originally by: Meridius When i see a Tempest, the average explosive content of all projectile ammo does not enter my mind, EMP does[) Look at the Ammo changes though - Phased Plasma will have the highest raw damage output (due to stock resistances), which is irrelivant since those are the two most hardened types... with EMP and Fusion about equal, Weirda will likeley not have EMP loaded in more then one of Turrets - though this is why Weirda have always done very well against Enemies that are expecting the most common damage... and why Weirda LOVE the projectile ammo changes (heheh - down to 3 ranges? Who cares - would rather use -50% on all my autocannons thank you very much - and 0% on all artillerys... never snipe - but +50% and choosing damage types is much better then being stuck with the least damage at the most range)... Anyhow - Cheers! ON TOPIC (for once - Weirda not very good at that) - IR has been most common for apoc with megabeams for me. The range change is irrelivant since always sitting below optimal anways. With a tracking computer II, skills and otherwise, it's effective from 20km-60km, which suits just fine. -- Thread Killer <END TRANSMISSION>
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.04.28 00:45:00 - [26] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Weirda On the whole - Explosive is the most used damage in all Projectile, and Kinetic is second (this is even more pronounced with the ammo changes). Illogical. The most common damage type found in projectiles is irrelevent. The most commonly used ammo type is EMP. EMP has a 45.4% EM output. When i see a Tempest, the average explosive content of all projectile ammo does not enter my mind, EMP does Originally by: Weirda EDIT - in spite of all of our bickering - Weirda still have best damned sig in EvE, from you no less! It's not bickering, it's arguing. Arguing is healthy. It keeps the mind strong and you learn new things (mostly when you're wrong) Which is why my Claw tends to kick AF's arround. Assumptions are tasty. "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Berilac	Posted - 2005.04.28 03:15:00 - [27] your claw kicks af's around because it has a base 80% em dmg resist, and 280's, a rediculiously overpowered weapon that takes nearly no cap to fire, and has a wide selection of damage types to ignore a af's highest bonus, all that, and exceptional range to boot. --- 'Sweeden Steel Bite hard'
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.04.28 07:40:00 - [28] Edited by: Gariuys on 28/04/2005 07:41:52 Originally by: Berilac your claw kicks af's around because it has a base 80% em dmg resist, and 280's, a rediculiously overpowered weapon that takes nearly no cap to fire, and has a wide selection of damage types to ignore a af's highest bonus, all that, and exceptional range to boot. Ehm what are you smoking? 280s rediculiously overpowered? On a CLAW... WTH uses 280s on a claw. 80% em resist a I win button... yeah cause beyond amarr all AFs use EM almost exclusively... oh wait. You're right about one thing though, minnies can switch ammo to try going for the lowest resist. Which comes in really handy. Even though we got lots of minnies saying it ain't all that. And assumption is really nice... but it works in so many layers... /me pats explosive hardner. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Cmdr Sy	Posted - 2005.04.28 11:08:00 - [29] Originally by: Tas Devil Did anyone notice that Monday's patch nerfed the microwave crystal from 50% range bonus to 40% and the IR crystal from 25% to 20% ??? It was like this well before Exodus. Nothing changed.
Bad'Boy	Posted - 2005.04.28 11:36:00 - [30] cry me a river B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
Vager	Posted - 2005.04.28 16:56:00 - [31] I assume that this change was due to the removal of the unintentional ammo changes being added by accident in the previous patch. Now if the ammo changes have not been removed on hybrids as well then it definetly is a stealth nerf. On the other hand, if radio has had it's range modifier reduced, then it should have had it's damage put back up again. The extra range modifier was meant to make up for the reduced damage at much less range than iron and carbonised lead (when used in beams). Mind without the range modifier, radio operates at ranges where iridium and proton work, but now does less damage, where before it used to do the same.
Sarqindi	Posted - 2005.04.28 17:01:00 - [32] They also nerfed Quad Light Beam Lasers, reduced their optimal range. A few days ago, it said in "Latest Patch Issues" that they were Pulse lasers, and therefore subject to the change. After my comment that they are called Beam, are found under Beam, and looks like Beam, that little notice got deleted, along with my reply. Censorship anyone?
ebil yar	Posted - 2005.04.28 17:13:00 - [33] Edited by: ebil yar on 28/04/2005 17:14:56 Projectiles are not uber, why is everyone praising them.. they still generally suck. The only role they are in anyway useful for is hit and run attacks but other races do it just as well, if not better. I find it interesting how hybrids got boosted to allow the guns to fit easier yet minmator still get shafted. Oh and im also an apoc pilot and lasers ARE fine now. You can still equip 6 long range large lasers and 2 siege launchers and still have enough room to fit an uber tank on the apoc.. Actually better now with t2 large reps.
Reite	Posted - 2005.04.28 18:48:00 - [34] Originally by: Gariuys Against any proper tank EM is the best damage type around. And so crystals where pulled in line with the same range modifiers as projectile and hybrid ammo. /me agrees with Weirda... scary. Ohh, so 3 or 4 energized plates arent a "proper tank"? im really sorry for not playing the game YOUR way. And btw, against suck an armor tank, EM is the worst possible dmg u can do.
Meridius	Posted - 2005.04.28 19:51:00 - [35] Originally by: Reite Originally by: Gariuys Against any proper tank EM is the best damage type around. And so crystals where pulled in line with the same range modifiers as projectile and hybrid ammo. /me agrees with Weirda... scary. Ohh, so 3 or 4 energized plates arent a "proper tank"? im really sorry for not playing the game YOUR way. And btw, against suck an armor tank, EM is the worst possible dmg u can do. Heh yeah. It's also a shame that 'proper' tanks are not allowed to tank EM even though it's far more common then explosive. ________________________________________________________
Tas Devil	Posted - 2005.04.29 11:39:00 - [36] Well disagree or not that this is a stealth nerf... the fact I was *****ing about is the clear inability for CCP to make changes they stick to long enough... yes we can adapt and survive... and yes this problem is not that major... but still why can't they annouce this in their patch notes ? is it because it would be a blatant admission that this change is a correction of the last patch which introduced mistakes in the IR & MW crystals range bonus ? and that perhaps some of us have a point when talking about a general lack of Quality Review at CCP ?
Thyro	Posted - 2005.04.29 12:28:00 - [37] Edited by: Thyro on 29/04/2005 12:31:33 Originally by: Tas Devil Did anyone notice that Monday's patch nerfed the microwave crystal from 50% range bonus to 40% and the IR crystal from 25% to 20% ??? That was not annouced but hidden in Monday's patch... I found out when I stopped hitting anything at my before patch ideal range using microwave crystals and large beam lasers... if anything its a pain for those that have set up sniping bookmmarks etc...all that work must now be redone because their exists no more crystal with a 50% range bonus.... only a 40% or 60%.... For those that think this makes no difference... on a proper setup we are talking a difference of close to 15km optimal range with a fall off of 18-19km.... that will screw any pre made bookmark.... so yes I am ****ed off at this silent nerf ...cool to kill radio crystals... but not so cool to slide the killing down the whole sniping range of crystals ! Its time to have Projectile weapons on Geddons and Apocs... at least make more damage than current Lasers independant of what type of crystal u use. Apoc (amarr BS) with Minmatar weapons is the way to go.
Zyrla Bladestorm	Posted - 2005.04.29 12:36:00 - [38] Originally by: Thyro Edited by: Thyro on 29/04/2005 12:31:33 Originally by: Tas Devil Did anyone notice that Monday's patch nerfed the microwave crystal from 50% range bonus to 40% and the IR crystal from 25% to 20% ??? That was not annouced but hidden in Monday's patch... I found out when I stopped hitting anything at my before patch ideal range using microwave crystals and large beam lasers... if anything its a pain for those that have set up sniping bookmmarks etc...all that work must now be redone because their exists no more crystal with a 50% range bonus.... only a 40% or 60%.... For those that think this makes no difference... on a proper setup we are talking a difference of close to 15km optimal range with a fall off of 18-19km.... that will screw any pre made bookmark.... so yes I am ****ed off at this silent nerf ...cool to kill radio crystals... but not so cool to slide the killing down the whole sniping range of crystals ! Its time to have Projectile weapons on Geddons and Apocs... at least make more damage than current Lasers independant of what type of crystal u use. Apoc (amarr BS) with Minmatar weapons is the way to go. Projectiles without two damage bonuses are still pretty pathetic. . ----- Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.04.29 12:53:00 - [39] Originally by: Reite Originally by: Gariuys Against any proper tank EM is the best damage type around. And so crystals where pulled in line with the same range modifiers as projectile and hybrid ammo. /me agrees with Weirda... scary. Ohh, so 3 or 4 energized plates arent a "proper tank"? im really sorry for not playing the game YOUR way. And btw, against suck an armor tank, EM is the worst possible dmg u can do. You're right, in that case EM is the worst. That is also a horribly ineffective tank though cause of stacking nerfs. And leaves you with a gaping hole for explosive damage. And the only race you can afford such a weakness against is other amarr. So not a proper tank. But a specialized horribly ineffective tank. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.04.29 12:56:00 - [40] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Reite Originally by: Gariuys Against any proper tank EM is the best damage type around. And so crystals where pulled in line with the same range modifiers as projectile and hybrid ammo. /me agrees with Weirda... scary. Ohh, so 3 or 4 energized plates arent a "proper tank"? im really sorry for not playing the game YOUR way. And btw, against suck an armor tank, EM is the worst possible dmg u can do. Heh yeah. It's also a shame that 'proper' tanks are not allowed to tank EM even though it's far more common then explosive. The hardner that makes EM worst damage type is always the fourth one on what I consider a proper tank ( compaired to a specialized tank ) Saying EM is the worst damage against a tank that fits too achieve just that.... snip Edited - Wrangler ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
DEVILSENIGMA	Posted - 2005.04.29 13:22:00 - [41] Wow this is cool. Minmatar havent been nerfed yet (apart from the last time) and I already see the signs. To quote someones sig. "The game is balanced every race is whining now" ~ [My Blog] \| [Roving Guns Kill List]
Reite	Posted - 2005.04.29 13:34:00 - [42] Originally by: Gariuys Originally by: Reite Originally by: Gariuys Against any proper tank EM is the best damage type around. And so crystals where pulled in line with the same range modifiers as projectile and hybrid ammo. /me agrees with Weirda... scary. Ohh, so 3 or 4 energized plates arent a "proper tank"? im really sorry for not playing the game YOUR way. And btw, against suck an armor tank, EM is the worst possible dmg u can do. You're right, in that case EM is the worst. That is also a horribly ineffective tank though cause of stacking nerfs. And leaves you with a gaping hole for explosive damage. And the only race you can afford such a weakness against is other amarr. So not a proper tank. But a specialized horribly ineffective tank. It will be an aprox 7% difference between 3x20% hardeners and 3x50% 1 explosive hardener on the explosive dmg type. How can u call that a "gaping hole" and "not a proper tank" Its also easyer to fit, and dont use cap..
Toshiro Khan	Posted - 2005.04.29 14:36:00 - [43] Strange, that i have noticed a lot of names that are crying about how their lasers suck now ... Are the same people that would shout "adapt or quit."
Harry Voyager	Posted - 2005.04.29 15:53:00 - [44] That 7% is the resist delta, not the damage increase you will feel. Because a proper tank soaks 60% of damage from Explosive, or, in other words, transmits 40%, increasing your Susceptance to 50% results in a 20% increase in recieved damage. That is what a gaping hole it. Not to mention that it also increases your susceptance to Thermal and Kinetic damage as well. EM may be common, but it is not as common as all other damage types combined. Harry Voyager
Deileon	Posted - 2005.04.29 16:44:00 - [45] $!#@$@#$'s! Looks like it's back to crap-radio for range. Let's analyze the changes yet again! Mega pulse with radio: 71.43% range, 71.43% damage compared to pre-nerf conditions. A player that would go from Mega Pulse I w/ L4 laser skills (prenerf), to Mega Pulse II with L5 laser skills (post nerf), while also adding 1 tracking computer II, would have: Range: (20/28)(1.25/1.2)(1.15)(1.2) = 2.7% more range than pre-nerf Damage: (20/28)(1.25/1.2)(1.05)(1.2)(1.08) = 1.25% more radio damage than pre-nerf (L4->5 LET, rapid firing, and L4 specialization) Woo hoo! All we need to do is train for 3 months and sacrifice a slot on our ships, and an uber-skill-setup is about as good as a vanilla setup before! They say bananas are a dish best served cold...*
Zyrla Bladestorm	Posted - 2005.04.29 17:32:00 - [46] Originally by: Deileon $!#@$@#$'s! Looks like it's back to crap-radio for range. Let's analyze the changes yet again! Mega pulse with radio: 71.43% range, 71.43% damage compared to pre-nerf conditions. A player that would go from Mega Pulse I w/ L4 laser skills (prenerf), to Mega Pulse II with L5 laser skills (post nerf), while also adding 1 tracking computer II, would have: Range: (20/28)(1.25/1.2)(1.15)(1.2) = 2.7% more range than pre-nerf Damage: (20/28)(1.25/1.2)(1.05)(1.2)*(1.08) = 1.25% more radio damage than pre-nerf (L4->5 LET, rapid firing, and L4 specialization) Woo hoo! All we need to do is train for 3 months and sacrifice a slot on our ships, and an uber-skill-setup is about as good as a vanilla setup before! Welcome to Balance, Population Minmatar, Gallente, Amarr gallente and minmatar have had to train skills to 5 and sacrifice slots to get effective setups for aeons already. . ----- Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
Deileon	Posted - 2005.04.29 19:48:00 - [47] It's not even really "balance" yet. Cause even after getting kicked in the teeth, Mega Pulse is still overall better than Hybrid or Projectile. What I don't grasp is why you so gleefully destroy the second best weapon in the game, when Raven/missiles are the real problem. Or why not clamor to have your own guns made better instead of hurting someone elses. Very shortsighted. They say bananas are a dish best served cold...
Zyrla Bladestorm	Posted - 2005.04.29 20:15:00 - [48] Originally by: Deileon It's not even really "balance" yet. Cause even after getting kicked in the teeth, Mega Pulse is still overall better than Hybrid or Projectile. What I don't grasp is why you so gleefully destroy the second best weapon in the game, when Raven/missiles are the real problem. Or why not clamor to have your own guns made better instead of hurting someone elses. Very shortsighted. Mega pulse were insane, they were not destroyed by any means and at no point did I go all out campaigning for it, I merely looked at the figures and agreed with those that thought it should be balanced (which they are now a hell of a lot closer to than they were before, hell they had more range, damage, tracking, lower cap use, no ammo need when compared to some railguns, which are supposed to be long range weapons ) They have the downside of lower tracking, requiring good amounts of cap to use and needing the pilot to make better control of range to be effective than either blasters or autocannons and the upside of still having notably longer range, solid damage and not using huge quantitys of ammo. Projectiles without damage bonuses are pants, with one they are somewhat pants, with two they are getting to decent weapons.They are better than they have been for the last year or more (Many of us gave up on them being fixed 6-9 months back ) and while they are like this are not so likely to be nerfed, or otherwise seriously broken again. Missiles have been in line for balancing by the devs for a very long time, as near as I can tell they know they need a major overhaul but have been having trouble coming up with a workable solution. (Next major patch, supposedly now) I've been here all along, seen the ups, the downs, the nerfs and the buffs and I honestly believe we are probably the closest to balance among turrets that we have ever been so far. . ----- Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
Deileon	Posted - 2005.04.30 18:17:00 - [49] Woo, the turrets are "balanced." Well why use a turret when you can get 100% hit ratio with missile spam. Anyway. What bugs me about this Microwave/Radio range reset is that it was done silently and without justification. I read through the original ammo change dev blog, and whether or not I agreed with all of it, at least he backed up the changes with reasoning, and the range increase on radio & MW were supposed to be there to somewhat offset the damage hits. Now the little reprieve we were given is taken away with no justification, now Radio goes back to being on top for range even with its 71% damage compared to before. And lest I forget, this isn't just a Mega Pulse hit. Lowering the crystal range hurts all lasers. In terms of absolute range, it hurts beams and tachyons a lot more than pulse. I hope the rumored beam-boost happens in my lifetime, even if it's a small one. They say bananas are a dish best served cold...

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