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Vager
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Posted - 2005.04.28 16:56:00 -
[31]
I assume that this change was due to the removal of the unintentional ammo changes being added by accident in the previous patch.
Now if the ammo changes have not been removed on hybrids as well then it definetly is a stealth nerf. On the other hand, if radio has had it's range modifier reduced, then it should have had it's damage put back up again. The extra range modifier was meant to make up for the reduced damage at much less range than iron and carbonised lead (when used in beams).
Mind without the range modifier, radio operates at ranges where iridium and proton work, but now does less damage, where before it used to do the same.
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Sarqindi
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Posted - 2005.04.28 17:01:00 -
[32]
They also nerfed Quad Light Beam Lasers, reduced their optimal range.
A few days ago, it said in "Latest Patch Issues" that they were Pulse lasers, and therefore subject to the change.
After my comment that they are called Beam, are found under Beam, and looks like Beam, that little notice got deleted, along with my reply.
Censorship anyone?
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ebil yar
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Posted - 2005.04.28 17:13:00 -
[33]
Edited by: ebil yar on 28/04/2005 17:14:56
Projectiles are not uber, why is everyone praising them.. they still generally suck. The only role they are in anyway useful for is hit and run attacks but other races do it just as well, if not better. I find it interesting how hybrids got boosted to allow the guns to fit easier yet minmator still get shafted. Oh and im also an apoc pilot and lasers ARE fine now. You can still equip 6 long range large lasers and 2 siege launchers and still have enough room to fit an uber tank on the apoc.. Actually better now with t2 large reps.
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Reite
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Posted - 2005.04.28 18:48:00 -
[34]
 Originally by: Gariuys
Against any proper tank EM is the best damage type around. And so crystals where pulled in line with the same range modifiers as projectile and hybrid ammo.
/me agrees with Weirda... scary.
Ohh, so 3 or 4 energized plates arent a "proper tank"? im really sorry for not playing the game YOUR way.
And btw, against suck an armor tank, EM is the worst possible dmg u can do.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.04.28 19:51:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Reite
Originally by: Gariuys
Against any proper tank EM is the best damage type around. And so crystals where pulled in line with the same range modifiers as projectile and hybrid ammo.
/me agrees with Weirda... scary.
Ohh, so 3 or 4 energized plates arent a "proper tank"? im really sorry for not playing the game YOUR way.
And btw, against suck an armor tank, EM is the worst possible dmg u can do.
Heh yeah. It's also a shame that 'proper' tanks are not allowed to tank EM even though it's far more common then explosive.
________________________________________________________
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Tas Devil
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Posted - 2005.04.29 11:39:00 -
[36]
Well disagree or not that this is a stealth nerf... the fact I was *****ing about is the clear inability for CCP to make changes they stick to long enough... yes we can adapt and survive... and yes this problem is not that major...
but still why can't they annouce this in their patch notes ? is it because it would be a blatant admission that this change is a correction of the last patch which introduced mistakes in the IR & MW crystals range bonus ? and that perhaps some of us have a point when talking about a general lack of Quality Review at CCP ?
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Thyro
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Posted - 2005.04.29 12:28:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Thyro on 29/04/2005 12:31:33
Originally by: Tas Devil
Did anyone notice that Monday's patch nerfed the microwave crystal from 50% range bonus to 40% and the IR crystal from 25% to 20% ???
That was not annouced but hidden in Monday's patch... I found out when I stopped hitting anything at my before patch ideal range using microwave crystals and large beam lasers...
if anything its a pain for those that have set up sniping bookmmarks etc...all that work must now be redone because their exists no more crystal with a 50% range bonus.... only a 40% or 60%....
For those that think this makes no difference... on a proper setup we are talking a difference of close to 15km optimal range with a fall off of 18-19km.... that will screw any pre made bookmark.... 
so yes I am ****ed off at this silent nerf ...cool to kill radio crystals... but not so cool to slide the killing down the whole sniping range of crystals !
Its time to have Projectile weapons on Geddons and Apocs... at least make more damage than current Lasers independant of what type of crystal u use.
Apoc (amarr BS) with Minmatar weapons is the way to go.
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Zyrla Bladestorm
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Posted - 2005.04.29 12:36:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Thyro
Edited by: Thyro on 29/04/2005 12:31:33
Originally by: Tas Devil
Did anyone notice that Monday's patch nerfed the microwave crystal from 50% range bonus to 40% and the IR crystal from 25% to 20% ???
That was not annouced but hidden in Monday's patch... I found out when I stopped hitting anything at my before patch ideal range using microwave crystals and large beam lasers...
if anything its a pain for those that have set up sniping bookmmarks etc...all that work must now be redone because their exists no more crystal with a 50% range bonus.... only a 40% or 60%....
For those that think this makes no difference... on a proper setup we are talking a difference of close to 15km optimal range with a fall off of 18-19km.... that will screw any pre made bookmark....
so yes I am ****ed off at this silent nerf ...cool to kill radio crystals... but not so cool to slide the killing down the whole sniping range of crystals !
Its time to have Projectile weapons on Geddons and Apocs... at least make more damage than current Lasers independant of what type of crystal u use.
Apoc (amarr BS) with Minmatar weapons is the way to go.
Projectiles without two damage bonuses are still pretty pathetic.
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Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2005.04.29 12:53:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Reite
Originally by: Gariuys
Against any proper tank EM is the best damage type around. And so crystals where pulled in line with the same range modifiers as projectile and hybrid ammo.
/me agrees with Weirda... scary.
Ohh, so 3 or 4 energized plates arent a "proper tank"? im really sorry for not playing the game YOUR way.
And btw, against suck an armor tank, EM is the worst possible dmg u can do.
You're right, in that case EM is the worst. That is also a horribly ineffective tank though cause of stacking nerfs. And leaves you with a gaping hole for explosive damage. And the only race you can afford such a weakness against is other amarr. So not a proper tank. But a specialized horribly ineffective tank.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Gariuys
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Posted - 2005.04.29 12:56:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Reite
Originally by: Gariuys
Against any proper tank EM is the best damage type around. And so crystals where pulled in line with the same range modifiers as projectile and hybrid ammo.
/me agrees with Weirda... scary.
Ohh, so 3 or 4 energized plates arent a "proper tank"? im really sorry for not playing the game YOUR way.
And btw, against suck an armor tank, EM is the worst possible dmg u can do.
Heh yeah. It's also a shame that 'proper' tanks are not allowed to tank EM even though it's far more common then explosive.
The hardner that makes EM worst damage type is always the fourth one on what I consider a proper tank ( compaired to a specialized tank ) Saying EM is the worst damage against a tank that fits too achieve just that....
*snip*
Edited - Wrangler
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
DEVILSENIGMA
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Posted - 2005.04.29 13:22:00 -
[41]
Wow this is cool. Minmatar havent been nerfed yet (apart from the last time) and I already see the signs. To quote someones sig. "The game is balanced every race is whining now"
~
[My Blog] | [Roving Guns Kill List] |
Reite
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Posted - 2005.04.29 13:34:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Reite
Originally by: Gariuys
Against any proper tank EM is the best damage type around. And so crystals where pulled in line with the same range modifiers as projectile and hybrid ammo.
/me agrees with Weirda... scary.
Ohh, so 3 or 4 energized plates arent a "proper tank"? im really sorry for not playing the game YOUR way.
And btw, against suck an armor tank, EM is the worst possible dmg u can do.
You're right, in that case EM is the worst. That is also a horribly ineffective tank though cause of stacking nerfs. And leaves you with a gaping hole for explosive damage. And the only race you can afford such a weakness against is other amarr. So not a proper tank. But a specialized horribly ineffective tank.
It will be an aprox 7% difference between 3x20% hardeners and 3x50% 1 explosive hardener on the explosive dmg type. How can u call that a "gaping hole" and "not a proper tank" Its also easyer to fit, and dont use cap..
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Toshiro Khan
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Posted - 2005.04.29 14:36:00 -
[43]
Strange, that i have noticed a lot of names that are crying about how their lasers suck now ... Are the same people that would shout "adapt or quit." |
Harry Voyager
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Posted - 2005.04.29 15:53:00 -
[44]
That 7% is the resist delta, not the damage increase you will feel. Because a proper tank soaks 60% of damage from Explosive, or, in other words, transmits 40%, increasing your Susceptance to 50% results in a 20% increase in recieved damage. *That* is what a gaping hole it.
Not to mention that it also increases your susceptance to Thermal and Kinetic damage as well. EM may be common, but it is not as common as all other damage types combined.
Harry Voyager
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Deileon
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Posted - 2005.04.29 16:44:00 -
[45]
$!#@$@#$'s! Looks like it's back to crap-radio for range. Let's analyze the changes yet again!
Mega pulse with radio: 71.43% range, 71.43% damage compared to pre-nerf conditions.
A player that would go from Mega Pulse I w/ L4 laser skills (prenerf), to Mega Pulse II with L5 laser skills (post nerf), while also adding 1 tracking computer II, would have:
Range: (20/28)*(1.25/1.2)*(1.15)*(1.2) = 2.7% more range than pre-nerf
Damage: (20/28)*(1.25/1.2)*(1.05)*(1.2)*(1.08) = 1.25% more radio damage than pre-nerf (L4->5 LET, rapid firing, and L4 specialization)
Woo hoo! All we need to do is train for 3 months and sacrifice a slot on our ships, and an uber-skill-setup is about as good as a vanilla setup before!
 
They say bananas are a dish best served cold... |
Zyrla Bladestorm
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Posted - 2005.04.29 17:32:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Deileon
$!#@$@#$'s! Looks like it's back to crap-radio for range. Let's analyze the changes yet again!
Mega pulse with radio: 71.43% range, 71.43% damage compared to pre-nerf conditions.
A player that would go from Mega Pulse I w/ L4 laser skills (prenerf), to Mega Pulse II with L5 laser skills (post nerf), while also adding 1 tracking computer II, would have:
Range: (20/28)*(1.25/1.2)*(1.15)*(1.2) = 2.7% more range than pre-nerf
Damage: (20/28)*(1.25/1.2)*(1.05)*(1.2)*(1.08) = 1.25% more radio damage than pre-nerf (L4->5 LET, rapid firing, and L4 specialization)
Woo hoo! All we need to do is train for 3 months and sacrifice a slot on our ships, and an uber-skill-setup is about as good as a vanilla setup before!
Welcome to Balance, Population Minmatar, Gallente, Amarr  gallente and minmatar have had to train skills to 5 and sacrifice slots to get effective setups for aeons already.
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Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
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Deileon
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Posted - 2005.04.29 19:48:00 -
[47]
It's not even really "balance" yet. Cause even after getting kicked in the teeth, Mega Pulse is still overall better than Hybrid or Projectile. What I don't grasp is why you so gleefully destroy the second best weapon in the game, when Raven/missiles are the real problem. Or why not clamor to have your own guns made better instead of hurting someone elses. Very shortsighted.
They say bananas are a dish best served cold... |
Zyrla Bladestorm
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Posted - 2005.04.29 20:15:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Deileon
It's not even really "balance" yet. Cause even after getting kicked in the teeth, Mega Pulse is still overall better than Hybrid or Projectile. What I don't grasp is why you so gleefully destroy the second best weapon in the game, when Raven/missiles are the real problem. Or why not clamor to have your own guns made better instead of hurting someone elses. Very shortsighted.
Mega pulse were insane, they were not destroyed by any means and at no point did I go all out campaigning for it, I merely looked at the figures and agreed with those that thought it should be balanced (which they are now a hell of a lot closer to than they were before, hell they had more range, damage, tracking, lower cap use, no ammo need when compared to some railguns, which are supposed to be long range weapons )
They have the downside of lower tracking, requiring good amounts of cap to use and needing the pilot to make better control of range to be effective than either blasters or autocannons and the upside of still having notably longer range, solid damage and not using huge quantitys of ammo.
Projectiles without damage bonuses are pants, with one they are somewhat pants, with two they are getting to decent weapons.They are better than they have been for the last year or more (Many of us gave up on them being fixed 6-9 months back ) and while they are like this are not so likely to be nerfed, or otherwise seriously broken again.
Missiles have been in line for balancing by the devs for a very long time, as near as I can tell they know they need a major overhaul but have been having trouble coming up with a workable solution. (Next major patch, supposedly now)
I've been here all along, seen the ups, the downs, the nerfs and the buffs and I honestly believe we are probably the closest to balance among turrets that we have ever been so far.
.
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Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
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Deileon
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Posted - 2005.04.30 18:17:00 -
[49]
Woo, the turrets are "balanced." Well why use a turret when you can get 100% hit ratio with missile spam.
Anyway. What bugs me about this Microwave/Radio range reset is that it was done silently and without justification. I read through the original ammo change dev blog, and whether or not I agreed with all of it, at least he backed up the changes with reasoning, and the range increase on radio & MW were supposed to be there to somewhat offset the damage hits. Now the little reprieve we were given is taken away with no justification, now Radio goes back to being on top for range even with its 71% damage compared to before. And lest I forget, this isn't just a Mega Pulse hit. Lowering the crystal range hurts all lasers. In terms of absolute range, it hurts beams and tachyons a lot more than pulse. I hope the rumored beam-boost happens in my lifetime, even if it's a small one.
They say bananas are a dish best served cold... |
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