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Space Debris
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Posted - 2005.04.29 11:08:00 -
[91]
When I read threads like this I think maybe Ive been wrong to live my EVE life in 0.0 space . All I want to do now is gank as many miners in Empire as possible
The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face
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Clydar Dramos
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Posted - 2005.04.29 11:35:00 -
[92]
Why?
CD
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hired goon
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Posted - 2005.04.29 12:07:00 -
[93]
This is a very interesting subject which I can see both sides of, but I think I'll take the side of the newbie / miner because the attitudes of PvPers here is annoying.
If you guys could have it your way, this game would be NOTHING but fighting, everywhere.
And on another note, this whole fandango just backs up my core argument of alts being purely evil and that they should be removed from the game entirely.
I'm afraid I have bad news for the miner/newbie group here... CCP will do nothing to change the current state of affairs, because if players argue with eachother over game mechanics - it's balanced.
If the players are all in agreement something needs to be changed, it's not balanced. This is when they'll change it.
Strangely, they'll also change something when everyone agrees it shouldn't be touched 
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We come in peace. And tanks. |
Gan Howorth
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Posted - 2005.04.29 12:16:00 -
[94]
oh joy, this again.
Just because you want to "craft" *spit, damn atrocious fairy mog knobjockey term that is* you can't then remove yourself entirely from another aspect of the game. You can however remove yourself entirely from the game itself if you are unable to deal with this concept.
You wont get an invulnerability button so quit asking for it. Teamwork, initiative and some intelligence beats whining to CCP.
Eve with its awesome and unique concept beats every other grind of the mill prole money milking engine hands down. Quit and it's your loss!
So don't! Learn, adapt and then (l promise) enjoy.
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Dloan
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Posted - 2005.04.29 12:57:00 -
[95]
Further to my last post, I feel an even better way of addressing this quandry, rather than simply increasing sec hits, would be to remove CONCORD protection from repeat offenders.
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Regalis
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Posted - 2005.04.29 12:59:00 -
[96]
The folks advocating nothing be done are trivializing. To them, the 100-200k for most frigates is nothing. It IS however a BIG something to the person who has been playing EVE for a few weeks.
Put yourself in their shoes for a moment...you've been there, you probably just dont' remember.
New players need to learn about PvP, but not by being nothing but a helpless target, and certainly not while still trying to earn a little isk to buy a better frigate or their first cruiser. Ganking them at this point can totally ruin their early EVE experience. Sure PvP is a part of the game, and they will have to deal with that quick enough. But most new players are in the high security space because they are NOT ready and KNOW they are not ready and realize that financially they could not replace their losses.
The next time you big bad pirates get the itch to do a suicide run, jump in an ibis and try to mine for 150k worth of ore to buy a probe, maybe you'll remember the "fun" you had as a new player. Then have one of your buddies come in and fire...what....4 missiles and blow you to hell.....talk about instant gratification....the thrill can't be that good...it's nothing but pathetic.
So give the new guys a break, you'll get a shot at them later but give them a chance to at least get SOMEWHERE and realize that it is NOT difficult to replace a ship. You pirates know it, and the folks playing the game even a few months know it, but the new guy doesn't, all he sees is hours of work going up in smoke and now he has to start all over again. It can be very daunting until you understand that your losses can be replaced rather quickly especially if you join a player corporation.
It's the basics that the new player lacks and the gankers tend to just squash their hopes to get ahead too early in their new EVE careers.
Notice, I'm not mentioning war dec's, or hunting barges...just newbs.
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Gunner Stahl
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Posted - 2005.04.29 13:00:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Gunner Stahl on 29/04/2005 13:07:46
As a miner by trade, I have to disagree with all the whining going on by my collegues here... They seem to want money for nothing and chicks for free.
As a miner I have also realized the days of free money from sitting in a high sec system all day are over. All other proffesions in Eve require some sort of risk for the reward. Mining in empire never was this way. If you have all day to waste you could make consistent profits all day by doing nothing but dragging ore into a can.
So cry all you want miners... nothing unfair about it... the playing field has been leveled. Myself, I mine and watch my back when in empire. I understand that nothing is free and terrorism is a part of life in a complex society. If CCP needs to do anything it needs to inform the uninformed that this is not Hello-Kitty online.
Real life is harsh and unfair. So is Eve. Adapt or Die.
And please stop with the "Omg i got greefed in 0.8 space... CCP help i wasn't expecting to be attacked so they shouldn't be able to attack me!!!one!" If you undocked YOU ARE VULNERABLE. Don't get mad because someone took advantage of you. Happens every day IRL. Learn from the incident, adjust your playstyle, and enjoy the extra security that comes from watching whats going on around you.
Edit: And on the subject of ore theft: I switched to using secure cans a few weeks back and other than the initial investment, I have noticed hardly a dent in my profits... in fact sec can mining is much easier as I can leave my ore in the belt till I feel like coming back for it.
_________________________________________
Ask not what your country can do for you.
Don't ask what you can do for your country, either.
Start asking what your country is doing TO you. |
Karn Mithralia
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Posted - 2005.04.29 13:50:00 -
[98]
I mean no offense, but this is a crock.
Griefing is teh intentional harrassment of a player with the aim of ruining their game. It is all about intention, and judging whether its griefing or not is based on how often it happens, and if its done by repeat offenders on repeat targets etc.
It is terrorism, but it isn't griefing. It's legitimate play with-in the rules. Some say lame, but thats a matter of opinion, obviously someone enjoys it.
Seriously, why is it so bad? So you lose 1 ship, maybe a few implants, its just a financial loss in the end. Just like turning a bad deal .. and the money ISN'T REAL folks.
The stated aim of many miners is to get rich, so the obvious way to compete with that aim is to hit them in the hip pocket.
Bannning terrorism ... I come here to forget RL ... ROFL ...
/me walks off chuckling
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Gift
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Posted - 2005.04.29 14:00:00 -
[99]
I am of the opinion that the players that are doing the attacking in empire have the power to make or break this discussion. If they choose to only target barges & larger vessels then I see no problem with that but if they are targeting noobs then I wouldnĘt support their behavior. As I am not there I have no idea which is the case but have yet to see any evidence that would demand a CCP response.
People decimating belts in nooby systems with their barges are doing a disservice to new players & if the punishment for that is death, I shall not shed a tear.
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Doppleganger
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Posted - 2005.04.29 14:08:00 -
[100]
As for noobs being ganged I think thats lame and sympathize with them but if its mining barges getting popped I cant.
The reason you see some of these responce by the older players in eve is not cause we think the abusing of alt attacks is good its just we know how much the game has changed since its orginal creation in beta.
The protection for ppl that want to spend their time in 'safe' space has increased in eve about 100x over what it was when we 1st started playing. I never believed any place should be 100% safe..... no way and no how.
Personally I'm not sure how new players can be protected but you got to remember there are probably 7000 ppl on the server that had almost no protection as new players and yet they seemed to keep playing and dealing with it and grew their chars past the noob stage.
As for mining barges being suicide killed I don't approve of this action but I can see how they would make juicy isk targets for lamers. There are plenty other ships that can mine besides barges that most of these suicide squads wouldn't bother to target.
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Arcticblue2
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Posted - 2005.04.29 14:13:00 -
[101]
Yes it happens that I mine in 1.0 and so, but not empty out belts and stuff... and I allow newbies to come and pick from my container too if there are any in the belts I am at.
I remember my first time I entered space and discovered all empty belts, remember my friend who told me about this game told me how they used to have fleets of ships hauling, guarding and mining... and yeah that is what drove me to this game.
I remember when I entered space and I could not find a single asteroid and I did end up far far from noobsystems in my hunt for asteroids.
I don't know about noobsystems now but I have yet not found belts so clean as back then... even with more efficient miners!!!! why is that ?.
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"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things."
1 cor. 13:11 |
Face Lifter
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Posted - 2005.04.29 16:41:00 -
[102]
I'm mostly on side of PvPers here - the game should have some risk, even in high sec space. And if it is "noobs" you are concerned about, you should realize that while they may not have much money, all their ships are very cheap too. And they can easily get more money from corp mates and stuff. In EVE you don't need uber skills to make AT LEAST 500k an hour mining scordite, that's even if you don't have an indy. Once you get one you'll make 1 mil an hour as a noob
Anyway, the only thing I'm against is Alt Farming - people creating alts just to attack stuff then deleting them after security rating gone too low and making a new one. That's bad tactic, even if it is used for a legitimate purpose. In which case, there'd need to be another fix to address why alt farming is required to play the game a certain way.
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Arcticblue2
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Posted - 2005.04.29 16:46:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Arcticblue2 on 29/04/2005 16:47:55
I am worried about noobs yes I am even more worried that CCP now want this to be a griefers game... so far they don't give miners any chance to take back against orethiefs or griefers like ganksquads... yes you can have guys sitting there guarding the miningbarges or noobs but be serious would you fire first ??? or sit and wait to see the ganksquad do their business before you can take action ?
Thank you CCP for making this a griefers game... it definitly will ruin the game for alot and hopefully you will loose money so you can see where you are going.
EDIT: and before anyone say that you should take the loss... I have not lost anything to ganksquads and only been robbed once in the time I have played this game.
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"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things."
1 cor. 13:11 |
Jane Vladmir
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Posted - 2005.04.29 16:48:00 -
[104]
 Originally by: Face Lifter
Maybe CCP should also ban all the NPCs from belts, who ALWAYS gank poor miners. They are almost in every freaken belt and they don't even ask for ransom or anything. NPCs just attack you for no reason! They are greifers and terrorists. CCP, you don't want to be labeled as supporters of terrorism, do you? Remove NPCs from the belts
damn npc's
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Roshan longshot
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Posted - 2005.04.29 16:48:00 -
[105]
Gather your forces!! Kick out the Woemen dont forget to feed the dogs. I call for a gathering of players to End Big Doggys reign of terror!! DO YOU HAVE THE BALLS TO DO THIS? Enough of the crying!! lets just get um!!!!
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter,pirate[/i] or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box and from this site.
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Ax X
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Posted - 2005.04.29 16:59:00 -
[106]
Why do simple questions keep turning into asshat arguments about gankers, griefers, whiners, whiners whining about whiners, and just plain stupid remarks?
Whatever happened to a civilized classy debate on issues?
Are you all like 12 years old?
I believe the initial questions were directed to CCP... not you.
I didn't even both finishing this thread, cuz post after post, just plain disgusted me.
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Inquisitor Nyxos
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Posted - 2005.04.29 17:31:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Inquisitor Nyxos on 29/04/2005 17:36:42
I think some people have a wrong perception about newbies. They are not necessarily some whiney and dumb kids who want to pilot pink Tristans/Imicii from the kindergarten to the belt and back and forth all the day. This game is complex, it takes time to get in, ramming the theory just to grab your next newbie ship and going down to 0.0 down the throats is not going to work and won't because the majority of the residents there does not share this attitude let alone know about it. Telling them they are whiney and game-ruining carebears, to give you their stuff and not letting them the door hitting you won't either as PVP-promoting mean. Empire is boring for a long-term 0.0 resident but not for some newbie who just got into the game. You want more players but the filtering method being applied to them here in the forums is just hostile to newbies.
People are proud that this is not Counterstrike in space as such you should allow them to prosper a bit, even if they do carebear mining which after all is just an alternative to mission-running at the beginning. Of course he could just train for tackling, offer cooperation and ask for joining a pvp-based corp but honestly, which newbie knows about this opportunity from the scratch? I would say the minority only and as such they should get some time. After all the longer they stay the more open they may become to greater challenges later.
Just make sure that people don't see agent running as the better and more interesting challenge.
(\_/)
(X.x) This is dead bunny.It has been intercepted and shot down in Amarr space by patrolling Navy forces.Its soul has been cast to hell and the remains will serve as snack for the emperor. |
Gift
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Posted - 2005.04.29 17:32:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Gift on 29/04/2005 17:32:04
Originally by: Ax X
Why do simple questions keep turning into asshat arguments about gankers, griefers, whiners, whiners whining about whiners, and just plain stupid remarks?
Whatever happened to a civilized classy debate on issues?
Are you all like 12 years old?
I believe the initial questions were directed to CCP... not you.
I didn't even both finishing this thread, cuz post after post, just plain disgusted me.
welcome to forums
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Arcticblue2
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Posted - 2005.04.29 17:37:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Inquisitor Nyxos
Just make sure that people don't see agent running as the better and more interesting challenge.
Actually that is what I am doing... I do lvl 4 agents and make lots of isk... infact I do make more isk doing agents than mining... why do I mine from time to time ??? because I like the production part too...
And even that I do know I will loose some isk doing that I do it... and it is fun to see someone actually buying your stuff.
however... I will continue doing my missions, they will get nerfed... griefers have won there too... it is just a matter of time.
They did whine on the forums about how much isk people was making in lvl 4 missions and I got to agree yes we do... but it all comes down to one thing.. they did not have anyone to grief... that is why they needed the missions nerfed.
I will still continue doing my missions... even that it might be in low sec (done that many times).
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"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things."
1 cor. 13:11 |
Doppleganger
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Posted - 2005.04.29 17:39:00 -
[110]
Well in most cases CCP won't answer question phrased like the topic's title on these forums. If someone has a question that is aimed only at CCP and not the eve community then I suggest and email to CCP would be more apropriate.
I still see this risk of gang squads as fairly low since now to gank most ppl at least they have to team up in packs. In days gone past we had the prob of 1 kestrel fitted with cruise missiles was able to take down almost anything it wanted. This problem is very minor compared to that one and that problem still took a long time before the devs stepped forward and changed it.
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DJ LOUD
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Posted - 2005.04.29 23:02:00 -
[111]
If I see a kitted out barge or BS mining veld in a 1.0, I have no problem with it being "greifed" (killed by a pack of ships, can popped, ore stolen, etc). If you are trained enough to fly a barge or BS, you need to get the hell out of high sec space and leave it to players that have to mine in frigates. At the point that you can fly one of those ships, you are no longer "new". Likewise, if you are AFK mining and I notice, I will drive my MkV to your can and make you my b*tch until the can is empty.
I have no problem with crafters. Do your thing so I don't have to. But I will do whatever is possible to "greif" you if you are strip mining a 1.0 because you're too much of a carebear to take your business to a .7 and out of total n00b territory. And god help you if you're AFK. There is no justification for AFK mining. When I was new, some of the most fun I've had was getting a mining op together with a few other n00blets and a hauler and shooting the sh*t/making friends.
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Arcticblue2
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Posted - 2005.04.29 23:36:00 -
[112]
well if you are mining in a battleship or miningbarge you are not afk mining, if you are mining in a hauler you might be afk mining.
And attacking people without declaring war against them first should be illegal ... bannable offence.
That is griefing.
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"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things."
1 cor. 13:11 |
var'ulfur
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Posted - 2005.04.30 00:02:00 -
[113]
well all that is lost is sec rating and the ship concord kills. solution( miners get group together get kessie find and kill gakers) is it the right solustion ? i dont know but better to die on your feet than live on your knees
talk is cheap the cost of action is enormus
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Nemiona
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Posted - 2005.04.30 00:40:00 -
[114]
nah the solution is, dont buy barge.. go back to the old days and mine with apocs.. That would kill the debate. Only reason miners are a target these days is because the barges is the easiest kill in the game; stare to hard on it and it pops..
Then the wannabe pvp'ers have to look for other people they can pick on, or atleast declare war.
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The future, according to some scientists, will be exactly like the past, only far more expensive.
John Sladek |
Hotice
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Posted - 2005.04.30 02:20:00 -
[115]
yep, in all honesty just go back mine with apoc. I use 1 apoc, 1 geddon and 1 mommath to haul when I mine. There is no way in hell a ganking squad could kill apoc or geddon in any timely fashion. Maybe if they can get 15+ people going at it but even then it means little to 12.6k armor and 75% resistance apoc/geddon. Not to counting the heavy drones from both ships. Train for battleships if you want mine in safty. The best part is that when you got bored, you can actually battleship to do missions for fun. Forget about mining ships. Total waste of time unless you want to mine ice.
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Karn Mithralia
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Posted - 2005.04.30 02:33:00 -
[116]
Edited by: Karn Mithralia on 30/04/2005 02:36:35
Originally by: Arcticblue2
well if you are mining in a battleship or miningbarge you are not afk mining, if you are mining in a hauler you might be afk mining.
If you are AFK anything you put yourself at risk.To paraphrase from a newbie thread 'this game isn't meant to be played AFK'.
Originally by: Arcticblue2
And attacking people without declaring war against them first should be illegal ... bannable offence.
That is griefing.
No its not griefing, not simply cos you were or might be attacked with out a war declaration. As I said before, to grief you have to intentionally ruin someones game. Attacking miners is part of the game, the players doing it likely have no intention of ruining your game, they simply want to play the game as given.
If you were suicide attacked 5 times in a session, and for no apparent reason (no in-game politics) then it could be griefing. But as yet I haven't read one post saying that's happening.
Lets be clear about griefing - it requires intent to ruin anothers gaming experience. Not simply doing something you don't like or agree with. It's GM arbitrated and correct approach would be to file a petition for harassment.
Its ridiculous to confuse 'RP' rules with game rules. Sure attacking people in high security space IS illegal - thats an RP rule, its part of the game universe. To say this must be a game rule is a big leap and assumption based purely on what you want. Game rules define player conduct. Nowhere in this game is behaving in a legal manner part of the game rules.
Sorry, your posts and others like it come across as confused. Game rules and RP background is NOT the same thing. The game responds via its own mechanics to stop outright terrorism in high sec space, its a suicide mission after all ...
The game rules, as upheld by GM's, handle player harrassment/griefing etc. Thats where you need petition.
2 seperate issues.
This is a storm in a tea-cup. I notice most of the miners not happy with the small risk of getting hit in high sec space haven't even lost a ship. 
No, I'm not a griefer or even a PvPer, I still a n00b to EvE, but I can clearly see the PvPers argument, and the mining one is confused and has no legs to stand on IMO.
EVE is unique with its open rules system and its good because of it. Try playing a less open MMO game and you will find it illogical, muddled and in the long run - dull.
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Kira Natel
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Posted - 2005.04.30 03:08:00 -
[117]
CCP lately seems to be encouraging and promoting griefing.
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Cracken
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Posted - 2005.04.30 03:26:00 -
[118]
LOl war dec a corporate enemy. Wait most greifers don't have that many brain cells too rub together.
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Archbishop
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Posted - 2005.04.30 05:28:00 -
[119]
I thought they were going to raise the Armor HP on the barges to eliminate this problem?
In the meantime to foil the ganking griefers just toss a shield booster II and an armor plate on our barge (along with a coprocessor for cpu) and your fine. I tested this out against some kestrels and it works fine.
Archbishop
VISIT THE PIE HOMEPAGE & FORUMS
PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Messerschmitt facility
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Posted - 2005.04.30 06:39:00 -
[120]
I would say that all players that cant even handle to survive in a 1.0 area are just totaly noobs when it comes to roleplay. In this case just go and play warcraft and watch how your little peon is building the uber barack so you can attack that nasty human in the campaign.
9 Months ago when I was mining in 0.5!! I absolutely never had any problems. I mined with my hauler in a 0.4 japset damit and I was fine. Because I knew to adapt. The ones that want to be spoonfead leave this game. CCP will not change the game cause you cant handle in 1.0 (omg, I cant belive people actualy get blown there)
And besides that, you should be 3 times happier than us when we were at the beggining. You have barges, you have transports, you have destroyers, and battlecruisers, intermediar steps that we didnt had.
We needed to mine the freaking plagicoloase in friate for 3 weeks to get a cruiser that costed 7 millions. And from there to be better we needed to jump directly to the battleship.
So instead of forum whoring, and complaining like 2 years babys, go in game and figure out by yourself how can you make profit and be safe, or just leave.
I realy wish you the worst deaths, and as many deaths as your whining replys
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A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking...
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