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Wedgetail
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
8
   |
Posted - 2012.12.06 18:59:00 -
[31] - Quote
what would be a viable work around to achieve a similar and more viable use:
is when opting to use a clone vat bay, before transferring the pilot, prompt a list of available hulls (including a capsule, for the equivalent of 'no ship') to deploy to the field in, this list is comprised of all vessels in the destination ship's SMB.
upon selecting one, the ship is removed from the SMB, placed on grid in proximity to the ship it was just in, with the pilot that just clone jumped inside.
with this as a foundation a set of specialised non-warp capable ships could be deployed effectively in the manner you initially described, with relatively minor changes to existing mechanics.
(a system similar to this may already exist for the clone vat bay - i personally have never used one, it is my understanding however that it simply spawns the jump clone in a capsule in space and a ship must then be boarded manually from the SMB) |
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
Quantum Cafe
120
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 21:26:00 -
[32] - Quote
MainDrain wrote:Are you not basically suggestions something we Already have ... Drones.
No - No I am not.
Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
304
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 21:35:00 -
[33] - Quote
BoBoZoBo wrote:
Exactly - The idea would be that the other pilots would show up in shuttles or frigates and board from there. The SMB capable pilot would stay in their ship. Just like any other cap ship relationship.
Something different.
I was with you until this point.
Why would anyone fly in using a ship just to leave it and board another ship?
I mean, odds are these would be rookie/frigate sized ships, so coming in a rookie/frigate would defeat the purpose.
Why not just give the ship a warp drive and let it get there on it's own?
Now, what I'm kinda looking at is the Cylon motherships from Battlstar Gallactica.
Instead of the ships being inside, they would be attached to the outside of the ship, and the player would be sitting in them.
This would require a new ships both as the carrier and the fighter ships.
Perhaps it could be the new motherships.
Now, these ships wouldn't be hefty ships by any means, and the mothership wouldn't be able to hold a crap ton of them, but perhaps maybe 20-30?
Now, there would be different ships with different roles, but none of them would have significant tank.
So, ewar ships, dps ships, possibly logi ships, etc. etc...
The mothers and the fighters would basically be designed as hit and run.
The bonus of the mother ships is that they could cyno to any system within range without having someone to open the other end.
HOWEVER, they could not bring any ships with them other than the fighters attached to them.
Example
Mothership
Burtha - Capable of holding 20 fighters at base.
Carrier skill bonus - 1 additional fighter per lvl
Mothership - able to fit 1 additional landing platform per lvl
Landing platform - High slot module.. Gives mother ships the capability of carrying 1 additional fighter pilot.
Fighters
Tick - requires frigates 5, and fighters 1. Bonus to cap warfare modules per frigate lvl, bonus to cap warfare module range per lvl
Flee - requires frigates 5, and fighters 1. Bonus to velocity with frigs, bonus to web strength with fighters.
Moth - same requirement. Bonus to warp disruptor range.
Mosquito - same requirements. Bonus to small turret optimal, bonus to small turret dps(high bonuses).
Hornet - same requirements. bonus to rocket range, bonuse to rocket dps (high bonuses).
Queen Bee - same requirements, bonus to small shield/armor transport effectiveness, bonus the small shield/amor transport range.
In the case of all these ships the only slots they have are in relation to their bonuses. So
Tick - 2 highs, not turret/launcher hardpoints.
Flee - 2 mids, no highs
Moth - 2 mids, no highs
Mosquito - 3 highs, turret hardpoints.
Hornet - 3 highs, missile hardpoints.
Queen Bee - 2-3 highs, no hardpoints.
In the case of all ships, their tanking capability is determined by their range from the mothership.
0-5km - high resists, high shield recharge/nanite repair rate (yes armored ships could rep themselves)
5-10km - mod resists, high recharge/self repair
10-15km - mod resists, mod recharge/self rep
15-20km - low resists, low recharge/self rep
20-30km - low resists
30km or more - base resists no recharge/rep
All ships would have a standard velocity of 1500m/s, however, that would be mwd. They all have mwd's at base
If hit with a warp scram, their base speed is 300m/s.
A mothership would have mids and lows for defense and possibly the addition of modules that bonus the ships output to the fighter bonuses in either range or effectiveness.
Would be highly tanked and have and have all the same benefits/negatives of a super carrier.
Now, they would have a ship maint. bay, but only fighters would be allowed inside the ship.
So, while it would only be able to field 30 pilots, it would still have a bay to carry replacements, and a fleet hangar to carry ammo and modules if needed.
So, the mothership would not be capable of any type of damage modules.
It would only have 5 highs, so if it wished to fit anything in the high slots it would have to give up a pilot per slot.
It's mids/lows would be dedicated towards tank and output bonusing modules, so attempting to fit anything different would cost tank and/or bonuses.
These small ships could be devistating against small fleets with bad tracking and no small ship defenses, where a fleet with webs/scrams, and good tracking would pwn these fighters.
At any time the mothership could leave the fighters behind. When the mothership isn't on grid these ships lose all the bonuses coming from the mothership, but also gain the ability to cloak.
So, a mothership could drop them at a bait point and warp off so that the fighters could cloak.
Then, once they pick a target the mothership could come in and bonus them.
So, not only would these ships be designed for hit and run behind enemy lines, but they would also be capable of setting up sneak attacks.
(the names aren't meant to be their true names, but are simply used as a guide) |
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
Quantum Cafe
120
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 23:05:00 -
[34] - Quote
That works also me thinks.
I was not sure of the technical implications of having multiple players "inside" or "onboard" of another player pilotes ship considering previous discussions about current carriers with the same idea, that is why I suggested having pilots warp to these ships in inexpensive ships (it could really be any ship they choose).
But if having one piloted ship inside another is feasible then yeah, I would much rather have those piloted ships be inside the mothership already without the pilots having to fly to it for this purpose.
Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite |
Colman Dietmar
Red Federation
3
|
Posted - 2012.12.06 23:51:00 -
[35] - Quote
Great idea, huge potential. I'd love it if CCP looked closely at this. |
Wedgetail
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
9
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 08:29:00 -
[36] - Quote
Joe: this system is redundant - the jump bridge mechanic already performs the act of moving pilots to a battlefield far better than this would,
also: your description thus far describes an unbalanced system (or does not clearly describe a balanced one), particularly in the pilot numbers vs fighter launch pads, as well as the mother ship proximity dependant bonuses.
most notable is the fact that if my mother ship were to leave the field i gain the ability to cloak and hide: no- a fighter without its mother ship..dies....as it has just lost the only means of survival it has, what you describe makes for a decent ambush tactic for ganks, but without the mother ship being there, fighters are worthless as their sole function is to protect their carrier (without it they have no way to get home) - and therefore as you described loose ALL beneficial effects, not gain any.
do not confuse with the functionality of current carrier fighters, these have warp drives for this exact reason, to act beyond the capacity of simply protecting their carrier, this allows them to act as military naval fighters - providing fighter superiority for their fleet within a large area (in our case, the solar system)
as i mentioned previously: the act of having pilots already attached to the ship is redundant, in that the clone vat bay already allows pilots to spawn at and launch ships carried by a vessel in space (currently the rorqual and titan) - rather than create entirely new mechanics adapt the ones already in place to facilitate the effect of what you describe - it will be much easier for ccp to build test and therefore get working and in the game :)
while your system is interesting as a concept is has implications when combined with the existing game mechanics that would mean the system you describe becomes too bulky for the users when compared to existing methods of deploying a fighting force, - this results in the feature never being used but for the purpose of novelty - which does not do this idea justice at all.
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BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
Quantum Cafe
121
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 13:54:00 -
[37] - Quote
Your right, it all depends on how you think of it.
Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite |
Sentinel zx
Deep Core Mining Corporation
10
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 19:41:00 -
[38] - Quote
like your idea this could be a T3 Capital Industry / Manufacturing / Research ship = Mobil POS that can still dock on stations
like your op this ship has no warp drive but a old jump drive sytem
Jump drive system could be older version of current warp-drive and Capital-jump-drive system
the reason why it was replaced, because it was inaccurate (you always jumped between 10000km-2 Au away from your destination point and it took to long to activate it again (30min-1h)
some scientist and engineers have improved this system that your destination point lies now between 5000km and 10000 km and reduced the activation time to 5 min
unlike the Capital jump drive required this system no fuel and no cyno but its still inaccurate and insecure to use this in Military Strategic Missions (maybe)
you can jump only in a neighboring system that is connected with your current system
you will able to set next jump destination for example in Nearby system 3 planet or Asteroifeld and you land between 5000-10000 km away from it
ship ehp could be between 400k - 600k
normal ship speed 50m/s
Role Bonus: Mass null filler (reduce ship Mass by using Microwarpdrive Module to increase your max speed to 5000m/s )
Defensive Subsystems
same like current t3 system
only with different Warfare Processor
maybe 2% bonus to effectiveness of all Gang Assist Link Modules (all Warfare and Mining Link Modules)
Offensive Subsystems
-Sieges Module stationary installation
able to install 2 Capital ship weapons (depending on race)
-Drone Synthesis Projector
20% bonus to Drone/Fighter damage and hitpoints per level.
(you can use only 5 Drones/Fighter at same time not 10 like carrier)
-Small / Medium / Large Turret /Missile Platform (depending on race)
-Mining Module
Able to equip 4 Strip Miner or 4 Ice Harvester turrets. (Still you would get less ore/min than unbonused Hulk)
(Mining Foreman Module give you the bonus only if you in a Fleet)
10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage and mining yield per skill level.
Electronic Subsystems
-same like current t3 system
Engineering Subsystems
--same like current t3 system
Propulsion Subsystems
-Microjumpdrive Optimization
100% Bonus to Microjumpdrive jump range
-Interdiction Nullifier
Immunity to non-targeted interdiction
-Wake Limiter
5% reduction in microwarpdrive signature radius penalty per level.
5% bonus to microwarpdrive speed per level
-Jumpdrive Optimization
improve coordinates to your destination point 10% per level
Pos Modules
-Laboratory
-Refining Array
-Reactor Array
-Ship - Transporthangar 200k m3
hm.. just some thoughts |
Mole Guy
Xoth Inc
Unclaimed.
19
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 22:30:00 -
[39] - Quote
i was in the navy 10 years and there is talk about a missile platform that is drug around from another ship. its sole purpose is to provide missiles for the fleet. any ship that is linked up will be able to request a certain type of missile and itll be shot in the air for u to take control of.
that being said, we could have a defender missile platform for fleet ops that we tow and deploy for protection. or something kewl.
mining capabilities would be industrial ship 5 or something and then this mining vessle. maybe it has 6 turret slots and a 500k ore cargo hold, maybe it goes 50 m/s, maybe get bonuses to laser range (30k) and bonuses to roid scanners. maybe it has a 200 m3 drone bay for mining drones only. for every rank of this ship, you gain 1 extra drone so it can be a "mining mothership".
down side, no warp. must be carried in. slow with very little maneuverability...no escape.
but man can it suck down the roids.
it would need all the appropriate drone skills to fly drones. maybe we can have 5m3, 10m3 and 25m3 mining drones.
who knows, the possibilities are endless. the idea is solid and has merrit.
kudo's to ya... |
JP Nakamura
Union of Intergalactic Miners and Nano Assemblers
8
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 22:40:00 -
[40] - Quote
Metal Icarus wrote:brainfarting this out here....
T2 tier3 battleships, no warp drive, able to cyno in highsec, can fit 1 or 2 dreadnaught sized weapons for highsec pos bashing.
I find your ideas intriguing and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
Please Read & Comment ( good / bad / or ugly ):
Anti-POS ship class idea - (Tier 3/T2) BattleShip / Pocket Dreadnought |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1173
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 23:06:00 -
[41] - Quote
The basic concept already exists in the form of POS gunning but this would be an interesting extension of that. In fact, some of the things that have been mentioned about the forthcoming POS revamp (being able to drop them anywhere, for example) make me think that some of the groundwork in place on that forthcoming expansion could be retooled towards this idea, rather than it being a totally new feature that has to be completely designed from the ground up.
Innnnteresting.
Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Kalel Nimrott
EG CORP
Talocan United
99
|
Posted - 2012.12.18 23:51:00 -
[42] - Quote
First thing that comes out of my mind for this to work.
Ships must be small, cheap but with a great deal of firepower. Could be with little to no tank but fast as hell. They must be remote controled by pilots inside this "new tech 2" mothership (besides the pilot contolling the mothership). Almost like drones but with fitted mods as the regular ships.
You may think that all the pilots controlling remotly the ships is not fair since they cannot be podded after this new "drone ship" is destroyed, you are right. And above that, they can just pick another drone-ship and keep fighting. But think about what would happen when you kill the Mothership.... |
Griffin Omanid
Knights of the Zodiac
17
|
Posted - 2012.12.19 00:08:00 -
[43] - Quote
These ships would be perfect siege ships. But they should get some weaknesses while deploying or when they dock. F.E. the deploying and docking needs 30 s and in the meantime you can-¦t use any moduls.
Would the pod with pilot be already in the ship while it waits in the mothership or do you have to board the ship after it is deployed? |
Kalel Nimrott
EG CORP
Talocan United
99
|
Posted - 2012.12.19 00:12:00 -
[44] - Quote
Griffin Omanid wrote:These ships would be perfect siege ships. But they should get some weaknesses while deploying or when they dock. F.E. the deploying and docking needs 30 s and in the meantime you can-¦t use any moduls.
Would the pod with pilot be already in the ship while it waits in the mothership or do you have to board the ship after it is deployed?
Are you asking about my post? |
Saul Elsyn
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
28
|
Posted - 2012.12.19 00:25:00 -
[45] - Quote
Hmm... this essentially sounds like a 'semi-mobile' set of POS guns. I could see them deployed to defend a major mining operation for example. The problem as I see it is that they're very finicky to use without a warp drive at all... no use in mission running and so forth, so maybe an extremely slow one could be fitted and a mechanic introduced so that they can't use their weapons without deactivating their warp drive. But how should it... oh, there's an idea.
Perhaps its a sub capital ship fitted with perhaps capital sized weapons (only one or two turrets/launchers). These weapons draw to much power to fire without the activation of a module that disables the ship's warp drive (similar to a siege module). Maybe they have very few module slots so they're basically a set of guns floating in space.
Sounds like the EVE Online version of a Monitor. The slow moving defense ship fitted with over sized weapons... it's an old concept dating to the Victorian age, but it might be viable. |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
7
|
Posted - 2012.12.19 01:06:00 -
[46] - Quote
Just have in mind a 5-ship gang with some strange jump drive that locks onto fleet members in a solar system, unable to warp on their own, waiting for the packleader to light the right kind of cyno.
Slowly starting to cry cause he got wife aggro and won't help them move to that other gate 1 AU further. |
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