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Myryanius
Whistling in the Dark
0
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Posted - 2012.12.04 11:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
So i come back after a few months break, drawn in by the new patch and all the shiney UI changes (and a chance to place some large bounties on some old enemies) when i discover how horrible the new Sleeper AI is to drones.
As soon as i launch my drones, they pick up aggro...what am i supposed to do? Recall them? Doing l4 in a battleship now seems a lot less viable in several missions, especially drone missions. |
Acrel
Viziam
Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2012.12.04 11:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
Would a T3 cruiser work better? I'm thinking about switching from an Apoc Navy Issue to a Legion to do L4's due to better tracking on the guns.... |
Myryanius
Whistling in the Dark
0
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Posted - 2012.12.04 11:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
I used to run in a Sleipnir and it works a dream without Drone DPS, T3 cruisers will probably be the same. Seems like this change is forcing us into cruisers if we are going to be solo mission running. |
Acrel
Viziam
Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2012.12.04 11:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
I was planning to buy a Legion soon anyways. I guess now I know what we'll be using it for. This new AI is an unfortunate occurrence I guess. I'll have to try it out myself before i make any final decisions, but so far I'm not liking the sound of it. |
Threshner
22
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Posted - 2012.12.04 12:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
I use a Nightmare and very very rarely do i ever need to use drones. Kill them frigates before they get within 15k |
Interconnector
Vapour Holdings
5
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Posted - 2012.12.04 12:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
I was drawn in by the new patch, yet oddly enough I didn't read any of the patch notes. |
MisterNick
The Sagan Clan
Pax Romana Alliance
135
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Posted - 2012.12.04 13:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
1. Use Sentries
2. Scoop occasionally when aggroed
3. Profit
4. There is no 4
"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom." |
Mund Richard
10
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Posted - 2012.12.04 14:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
MisterNick wrote:1. Use Sentries
2. Scoop occasionally when aggroed
3. Profit
4. There is no 4
or
Threshner wrote:I use a Nightmare and very very rarely do i ever need to use drones. Kill them frigates before they get within 15k
Pretty much.
And if you run a mission where several elite frig rats are right on top of you at spawn-in, obviously accompanied by associate elite EWAR cruisers and merry band of battleships...
...well, post your feedback, I'm not running missions for a week at least.
Sarcasm can be like drugs. |
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation
435
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 14:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
Will be trying level 3s on my indy alt tonight. She can fly a myrmidon but has only Drone skill no guns (she's an indy minor doing missions just for standings)
If the drones die too easily, I'll find her a mining or distribution agent. |
Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe
Defiant Legacy
475
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 14:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
Wellp, this was known long before today's patch. There's a whole thread about it in test server forum about it.
Everyone not happy about drones and AI, I strongly suggest you get very vocal. This is a perfect time to push for a well-overdue drone review that will make drones a viable weapon system and not just a crutch. |
Anneliese Pollard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.12.04 14:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Wellp, this was known long before today's patch. There's a whole thread about it in test server forum about it.
Everyone not happy about drones and AI, I strongly suggest you get very vocal. This is a perfect time to push for a well-overdue drone review that will make drones a viable weapon system and not just a crutch.
I haven't experienced the pain of this just yet. I'll check later today / tomorrow. You might want to post the test server post for others to review. I've heard nothing but bad about this. |
Annunaki soldier
Segmentum Solar
Intrepid Crossing
3
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Posted - 2012.12.04 14:46:00 -
[12] - Quote
should be bad. CCP has done it wrong. I dont see any other rats that stop lets say.. missiles and that ship lose efficiency. And ok if you do have setries what about other drone that as soon as you have agro and recall em they mwd to you straight line (you know what that means ) make em even more easy targets for the rats. If ccp wanted to stop afk botters then make the drones not to auto agro everything so you have to push a key to fire new npc. If we have changes like that then make all drone boats like normal boats to end the story. Give main weapon missiles or turrets and let drones to be just a "help" |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1631
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 14:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
RADICAL IDEA
makes drones untargetable like probes
TK is recruiting |
Anneliese Pollard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.12.04 14:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
Annunaki soldier wrote:should be bad. CCP has done it wrong. I dont see any other rats that stop lets say.. missiles and that ship lose efficiency. And ok if you do have setries what about other drone that as soon as you have agro and recall em they mwd to you straight line (you know what that means ) make em even more easy targets for the rats. If ccp wanted to stop afk botters then make the drones not to auto agro everything so you have to push a key to fire new npc. If we have changes like that then make all drone boats like normal boats to end the story. Give main weapon missiles or turrets and let drones to be just a "help"
Personally - I like the idea of eliminating the aggressive mode. You have to be at your seat to select targets.
Skippermonkey wrote:RADICAL IDEA
makes drones untargetable like probes
I don't agree with that. Without DPS nerfs, that would make drones OP. If they went this route, they would eventually nerf the DPS to the point that drones would be completely worthless.
|
Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe
Defiant Legacy
475
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 14:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
Annunaki soldier wrote:should be bad. CCP has done it wrong. I dont see any other rats that stop lets say.. missiles and that ship lose efficiency.
Hence the suggestion to push for a full-blown drone mechanics review.
Imagine if drones start to be treated like missiles? That is, the only ways to kill a drone would be with smartbomb or a specific module (like defender missiles against missiles). Because drones should be far too small to track with normal guns. Even frigate guns. Think about it. A Tristan can carry 5 drones inside itself. But its guns can easily hit these same drones, that individually supposedly are 0.02% of its own volume, and 0.03% of its own mass? Does this make any sense to you? These same guns then have trouble hitting ships a thousand times larger than a drone, if they move too fast? Are you kidding me?
Bottom line - drones need a review. Stats, mechanics, UI, everything. And now is a perfect time to push for that, seeing as new AI put the drones directly in harm's way. |
Annunaki soldier
Segmentum Solar
Intrepid Crossing
3
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 14:57:00 -
[16] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Annunaki soldier wrote:should be bad. CCP has done it wrong. I dont see any other rats that stop lets say.. missiles and that ship lose efficiency. Hence the suggestion to push for a full-blown drone mechanics review. Imagine if drones start to be treated like missiles? That is, the only ways to kill a drone would be with smartbomb or a specific module (like defender missiles against missiles). Because drones should be far too small to track with normal guns. Even frigate guns. Think about it. A Tristan can carry 5 drones inside itself. But its guns can easily hit these same drones, that are individually supposedly are 0.02% of its own volume, and 0.03% of its own mass? Does this make any sense to you? These same guns then have trouble hitting ships a thousand times larger than a drone, if they move too fast? Are you kidding me? Bottom line - drones need a review. Stats, mechanics, UI, everything. And now is a perfect time to push for that, seeing as new AI put the drones directly in harm's way.
you didnt understand me. What i wanted to say is either leave drone agro aside and make em not able to continue shooting new targets so that eliminates afk boaters or take the rattlesnake bonus for example give it to missiles so it can still continue to have a dps flow. Agroing 2 many times already kill the efficiency of the ship to a point that it is better to use another 1. |
Myryanius
Whistling in the Dark
0
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Posted - 2012.12.04 15:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Annunaki soldier wrote:should be bad. CCP has done it wrong. I dont see any other rats that stop lets say.. missiles and that ship lose efficiency. Bottom line - drones need a review. Stats, mechanics, UI, everything. And now is a perfect time to push for that, seeing as new AI put the drones directly in harm's way.
This.
The reason we are having these problems is the new AI mechanics were never considered during the original design of drones in Mission Running. I have always used drones for missions, either as a suppliment to my DPS in the form of Heavy drones or light/medium drones for chasing down frigates. Now i feel like there are a lot of missions i would be incapable of doing simply because i will be webbed and warp scrambled with the fear of my drones being popped before they could take out the tacklers.
|
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1631
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 15:04:00 -
[18] - Quote
RADICAL IDEA NO.2
Reduce the signature size and art model by 10, and have 'one drone' in your drone bay be representative of ten drones.
Visually stunning 'drone swarm' when you launch your drones
TK is recruiting |
Anneliese Pollard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.12.04 15:08:00 -
[19] - Quote
Myryanius wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Annunaki soldier wrote:should be bad. CCP has done it wrong. I dont see any other rats that stop lets say.. missiles and that ship lose efficiency. Bottom line - drones need a review. Stats, mechanics, UI, everything. And now is a perfect time to push for that, seeing as new AI put the drones directly in harm's way. This. The reason we are having these problems is the new AI mechanics were never considered during the original design of drones in Mission Running. I have always used drones for missions, either as a suppliment to my DPS in the form of Heavy drones or light/medium drones for chasing down frigates. Now i feel like there are a lot of missions i would be incapable of doing simply because i will be webbed and warp scrambled with the fear of my drones being popped before they could take out the tacklers.
I'll see what the damage is from my end on my other character later. I don't afk or anything, but I have a wife and 2 kids that demand most of my attention. At most, I'm doing 1-3 missions per day.
Would an Ishtar with heavies even be viable in this? |
Annunaki soldier
Segmentum Solar
Intrepid Crossing
3
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Posted - 2012.12.04 15:12:00 -
[20] - Quote
Anneliese Pollard wrote:Myryanius wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Annunaki soldier wrote:should be bad. CCP has done it wrong. I dont see any other rats that stop lets say.. missiles and that ship lose efficiency. Bottom line - drones need a review. Stats, mechanics, UI, everything. And now is a perfect time to push for that, seeing as new AI put the drones directly in harm's way. This. The reason we are having these problems is the new AI mechanics were never considered during the original design of drones in Mission Running. I have always used drones for missions, either as a suppliment to my DPS in the form of Heavy drones or light/medium drones for chasing down frigates. Now i feel like there are a lot of missions i would be incapable of doing simply because i will be webbed and warp scrambled with the fear of my drones being popped before they could take out the tacklers. I'll see what the damage is from my end on my other character later. I don't afk or anything, but I have a wife and 2 kids that demand most of my attention. At most, I'm doing 1-3 missions per day. Would an Ishtar with heavies even be viable in this?
not ccp prob that but i tottaly understand you. Get a FoF tengu. Get job done much easier |
Vixorz
Cabronazos
18
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Posted - 2012.12.04 15:23:00 -
[21] - Quote
As said, use sentries.
Since i can use sentries i rarely use heavies in PVE, or meds.
A Domi sitting at 0 with sentries has no problem with the new aggro mechanics.
An Ishtar pilot orbiting very near them and being awake, normally has time to recall them quickly to avoid damage.
If any of your drones takes armor damage, just fit a small RR and fix them next time you launch drones.
Wait for redboxes/proper aggro before you launch your sentries.
Don't get me wrong, i'm all in for a change in the drone system. We just need to adapt to the new changes until that time comes.
|
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation
435
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Posted - 2012.12.04 15:25:00 -
[22] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:RADICAL IDEA
makes drones untargetable like probes
This is a horrible idea. Killing drones is one way to reduce incoming dps in a fight. Making drones untargetable would create extremely deadly ships. An arazu could point you at 40km, sit back and let the drones do all the work. it woukd be far too over powered. |
Corillion
After Evil
0
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Posted - 2012.12.04 15:28:00 -
[23] - Quote
Just wanted to provide some feedback on the drones situ. I've run my first 2 missions since the update and so far have lost 5 Hammerhead II's, despite recalling drones as soon as they take damage.
Understandably CCP wants to provide players with more interaction and challenge in the game, however the hatred of drones by NPCs is just ridiculous. Thank god I don't fly a drone boat.
The NPC aggression towards drones needs to fixed pronto.
As a side note, recommend speculating on tech II drones in the mean time, prices will be shooting up! |
Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe
Defiant Legacy
477
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 15:34:00 -
[24] - Quote
Corillion wrote:Just wanted to provide some feedback on the drones situ. I've run my first 2 missions since the update and so far have lost 5 Hammerhead II's, despite recalling drones as soon as they take damage.
Understandably CCP wants to provide players with more interaction and challenge in the game, however the hatred of drones by NPCs is just ridiculous. Thank god I don't fly a drone boat.
The NPC aggression towards drones needs to fixed pronto.
As a side note, recommend speculating on tech II drones in the mean time, prices will be shooting up!
Yep. Heavies are practically dead now for engagements of any range. If you have an Ogre 20 km away, it won't make it back alive if it starts taking fire all of a sudden. If it starts taking fire AND gets webbed? It's gone. Just...gone. Nothing you can do, unless you can fly your ship to it and scoop it up, and even then it's dicey.
Sentries (Domi sitting at zero on top of drones) is still decent, but all other drones (the ones with travel time) are in serious trouble. |
Myryanius
Whistling in the Dark
0
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Posted - 2012.12.04 15:40:00 -
[25] - Quote
Vixorz wrote:As said, use sentries.
Since i can use sentries i rarely use heavies in PVE, or meds.
A Domi sitting at 0 with sentries has no problem with the new aggro mechanics.
An Ishtar pilot orbiting very near them and being awake, normally has time to recall them quickly to avoid damage.
If any of your drones takes armor damage, just fit a small RR and fix them next time you launch drones.
Wait for redboxes/proper aggro before you launch your sentries.
Don't get me wrong, i'm all in for a change in the drone system. We just need to adapt to the new changes until that time comes.
We arent looking for new methods to AFK run missions so this is pretty much useless advice.
Heavy drones were dead before the patch so this doesnt make much difference at all. Hopefully by the next expansion they will balance battleships and drones will be included in this. I love the Typhoon and IMO T2 heavy drones are required to pull up the DPS but its just not happening for it. |
Anneliese Pollard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 15:44:00 -
[26] - Quote
Wouldn't a tank buff for the drones help? They don't even have to buff DPS. Just buff the tank.
I would even be okay with 4 drones and a repair bot if the repair bot managed the drones incoming damage just like logi would.
Add new skill - Drone Logistics.
Edit - for this to work, you would have to understand what drone has what aggro. Which means... yes an overhaul.
Regardless of the quick fixes, I fear an overhaul is unavoidable. |
Vixorz
Cabronazos
18
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Posted - 2012.12.04 15:44:00 -
[27] - Quote
Myryanius wrote:We arent looking for new methods to AFK run missions so this is pretty much useless advice.
Heavy drones were dead before the patch so this doesnt make much difference at all. Hopefully by the next expansion they will balance battleships and drones will be included in this. I love the Typhoon and IMO T2 heavy drones are required to pull up the DPS but its just not happening for it.
You are very mistaken if you think that sentry drones equals AFK missioning.  |
gittemuz
State War Academy
Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.12.04 15:53:00 -
[28] - Quote
i really really liked this idea when i looked at it the first time but a small scale 0.0 miner like me im ****** rats now just orbit me at 60-90 doing max damage and jam the **** out of me i dont have the ability to : 1 target them 2 my drone range is max 60 kms so i have no way to defend my self none the less the can warp scram me from 70 km away ><
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Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe
Defiant Legacy
477
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 15:55:00 -
[29] - Quote
Anneliese Pollard wrote:Wouldn't a tank buff for the drones help? They don't even have to buff DPS. Just buff the tank.
It's not just tank. It's many other things too.
Consider signature radius. A Hobgoblin II (light Gallente drone) has 25 sig. The Algos, a ship capable of fielding 5 of these, and holding 12, has a sig of 72. Think about it. Sig radius of 3 drones put together is larger than sig radius of a ship containing 12 of such drones? Does this make any sense to you?
Some people argued that perhaps sig radius on the drones is big because of their shields (shield extenders). Except...Hobgoblin is a Gallente drone, it is armor tanked and slow because of it (slowest light drone in the game), so why does it have the same sig radius as insanely fast shield-tanked Minmatar Warrior II? Does that make any sense? Again, no.
See what I mean? Drones are currently BORKED. "Borked" as in "beyond broken". It is not going to be a simple bandaid fix to bring them to where they need to be, especially with improving the AI. |
Anneliese Pollard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 16:05:00 -
[30] - Quote
So what it all boils down to is that if you warp in on top of frigs, you're probably going to lose a few lights taking them out due to drone aggro.
If you warp in and the frigs are at a distance, the mechanics don't change. They're probably the first to go with your sentries. The other will be the ability to burn things down quickly before they fall in range to do any serious damage to them.
Idk anymore. I'll test it out for myself and then probably resign to using a Tengu from there on out. |
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