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Aggroing of drones with new NPC AI....

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Potamus Jenkins The Lucky Bible Company 89	Posted - 2012.12.05 00:49:00 - [91] - Quote Rengerel en Distel wrote: Potamus Jenkins wrote: LOL wormhole dwellers say hello That was even more clever than the other 2 people that said it before you. how sweet
Kagumichan Deorbit Burners Session Change In Progress Alliance 2	Posted - 2012.12.05 00:56:00 - [92] - Quote Louis deGuerre wrote: For solo L4 runner the selection of feasible ships just got extremely limited and extremely expensive. No kidding, only tech 1 battleship I worked out could do any level 4 mission comfortably is a Maelstrom because of it's shield boost bonus. All the other ships have to either run dual-reps and suffer the cap loss (pretty much any armour tank ship), run an ASB with a normal booster and hope the charges last longer than the enemy can shoot, or fit loooooong range guns and use the new micro jump drive to get far enough away to be able to shoot at stuff without being hit by ewar.... but that only works if you're not warp jammed, which you will be most of the time with the new AI, and your drones won't get them off you now to use the MJD, since they'll be insta-popped the moment they poke their heads out the drone bay. Oh... or you could remove all those nice damage mods and fill your entire mid/low slots with nothing but tank so you can hold together with 1 repper, and then wait 10 bajillion years for your unmodded guns to slowly eat away at the tank of the ship that's... oh wait, sleeper AI also reps more often now too. Nevermind!
Bane Necran Appono Astos 893	Posted - 2012.12.05 01:06:00 - [93] - Quote Kagumichan wrote: No kidding, only tech 1 battleship I worked out could do any level 4 mission comfortably is a Maelstrom because of it's shield boost bonus. Dual armor reppers, with the mid slots full of cap chargers, make lots of battleships into L4 running machines. I have a Hyperion with a ridiculous tank. I used shields starting out, and The Mael was even my first L4 battleship, but as soon as i trained up armor tanking i never looked back. Shields are more suited for PvP because they can absorb lots of damage fast, but are harder to get stable, which doesn't really matter so much if everyone is dead before cap runs out. "It's no use crying over spilt milk, because all the forces of the universe were bent on spilling it." ~William Maugham
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 2088	Posted - 2012.12.05 01:13:00 - [94] - Quote Kagumichan wrote: Louis deGuerre wrote: For solo L4 runner the selection of feasible ships just got extremely limited and extremely expensive. No kidding, only tech 1 battleship I worked out could do any level 4 mission comfortably is a Maelstrom because of it's shield boost bonus. I stopped doing missions when their ISK/hour stopped being worth doing for me, so I might be a bit rusty. I recall using a "Baby Vargur" AC 800mm fitted Maelstrom and with it I could kill rat frigs very well as long as they were 15+ km away. However that took a lot of tracking enchancers and high SP. I think this patch will mostly impact on newbies. We did not want those new players anyway. Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
baltec1 Bat Country 3031	Posted - 2012.12.05 02:10:00 - [95] - Quote Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote: Ocih wrote: baltec1 wrote: Ocih wrote: Just another example of cart before the horse. Drones weren't designed to take full aggro and they are the only way to really kill frigates in a level 4 mission. When I did these missions in the nightmare I never needed the drones and that was with tachyons. If you get them all before they close on you. Many level 4's they plant you on top of the spawns but I suppose you just insta popped the 90% resist frigates at 2200 meters with your uber leet skillz He's telling jokes, not only this would be impossible even with a blaster fit and web but even less with a Nightmare, mwahaha nice joke however. Or maybe that was back in 1589 DC? -whatever I blow up fighters orbiting my megathron with blasters. For the close range missions just swap to pulse.
Kitty Bear Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance 153	Posted - 2012.12.05 02:23:00 - [96] - Quote Some Rando wrote: Huh, maybe CCP are trying to move L4s back to group activities. Solo'ing L4's is easy, and has been for many years. HAC, T3, BS, BC can all do it at varying degrees of speed and/or efficiency. the only reason to run L4's as a group is for the lols as a corp 'something to do' endevour Group PvE content is Level 5's, Incursions and C4+ Wormhole Sites
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1827	Posted - 2012.12.05 02:24:00 - [97] - Quote Kitty Bear wrote: Some Rando wrote: Huh, maybe CCP are trying to move L4s back to group activities. Solo'ing L4's is easy, and has been for many years. HAC, T3, BS, BC can all do it at varying degrees of speed and/or efficiency. the only reason to run L4's as a group is for the lols as a corp 'something to do' endevour Group PvE content is Level 5's, Incursions and C4+ Wormhole Sites Sounds like CCP has a lot of work ahead of them, then... Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm
Rengerel en Distel Amarr Science and Industry 564	Posted - 2012.12.05 02:34:00 - [98] - Quote Bane Necran wrote: Some Rando wrote: Huh, maybe CCP are trying to move L4s back to group activities. More likely they're trying to crack down on people letting drones do all the work. I once had a Domi that could tank entire pockets, and i'd just get everyone after me, activate my two stable armor reppers, release drones, then tab out for awhile. Safe bet things like that are frowned upon by CCP. They actually wanted to nerf this, but actually buffed it by making repping draw more aggro than the drones themselves. So afk RR-sentry boats got a boost, everyone else has more to deal with.
Norrin Ellis Venture Racing 94	Posted - 2012.12.05 02:40:00 - [99] - Quote I"m seeing a lot of the "just adapt because :wormholes:" argument being tossed around, and it's really the laziest troll to employ for people who are seriously concerned about the drone situation. The logic of this implies that anything that should be suffered in one part of the game should be suffered elsewhere without consideration for the different roles that Somewhere A and Somewhere B have in the game. It also utterly disregards the disparity in the basket of benefits available from Somewhere A and Somewhere B. Now, if the challenges of A should be just like B, then either the rewards should also be identical, or one area--either A or B--is unnecessary. More importantly, we're talking about a weapons system that is, at least on several ships, intended to be its primary weapon system. Now, drones already suffer the disadvantage that they are destructible at all. The only other primary weapon with this disadvantage (to a lesser extent) is missiles, which can take damage from well-timed smartbombs or defender missiles. The issue at hand, of course, is that the degree to which the weakness of this primary weapon system is now being exploited by the NPC AI renders it useless for its intended function. I imagine if every NPC were given smartbombs that automatically destroyed all incoming missiles, the rage would be overwhelming. The disdain for those who are concerned about their primary weapon being nerfed all to hell stems entirely from the fact that the weapon system in question only excels in one major use: lazy-mode missioning. It's not the fastest, most efficient ISK / hour way to mission, but it's certainly one of the least stressful. Some people play games to de-stress--you know, relax. Maybe you aren't one of them. Lots of things in the game are designed for you; drones probably aren't one of them. Personally, I'd really like to see a dev respond to this matter. It seems to me from the reports here that the new AI is not performing as advertised. Having read the features on CCP's page for Retribution, I noticed that the dev said he lost 2 drones over 9 L4 missions in his testing. Now, with that being the bar, I'd say that even if it were functioning as advertised, that's still a dramatic nerf. A competent droneship pilot might lose 2 drones in a hundred missions (on a bad sample of 100). If any other weapon saw a nerf by a factor of more than 10, the outrage from the turret-monkeys would be even louder. Anyone care to have a serious conversation about this problem? CEO, Venture Racing Retired Senior Banker, EVE Online Hold'Em
Katran Luftschreck Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps 132	Posted - 2012.12.05 02:51:00 - [100] - Quote Bane Necran wrote: More likely they're trying to crack down on people letting drones do all the work. What's the weapon bonus for an Arbirtrator? What's the weapon bonus for a Myrmidon? If I'm in a ship that gives no bonuses to any weapon except for my drones then I damn well expect my drones to do all the work, TYVM. When I'm flying a Myrmidon with Battlecruisers 5 & Drone Durability 4 and watching my Navy Drones - the toughest drones they make - die between the first hit and the two seconds of lag in a recall order to get them to actually start moving then as far as I'm concerned my career as a drone commander is over. El finito. And yes I am watching my drones. I'm not one of those people who think of them as "ammunition." I pay good money for them and want them to survive and it's not working. I've always watched my drones. Until today that has worked. I paid attention, managed them as fast as I could click and it worked. It was challenging but it could be done. I had lost all of maybe two drones in the last six months. Today I lost one in the first wave of the first mission I took. Two shots, gone. They didn't even reach the target. What am I supposed to do? Switch to using nothing but generic T1s so that I can actually keep turning a profit on missions? Or do I just have to retrain myself into being yet another cookie-cutter Drake/Tengu pilot like half the population of EvE? I'm not being irrational here. If CCP wants to keep this harder AI then fine, but they need to give us something back as compensation. They need to buff drone hitpoints in a big way, and add some more speed too unless they want to see all the drone boats growing cobwebs in a few months. EvE Forum Bingo
Mara Rinn Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium 2187	Posted - 2012.12.05 02:55:00 - [101] - Quote Have you tried fitting a TP or ECM to your drone boat? Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players
Bane Necran Appono Astos 894	Posted - 2012.12.05 02:57:00 - [102] - Quote Katran Luftschreck wrote: What's the weapon bonus for an Arbirtrator? What's the weapon bonus for a Myrmidon? If I'm in a ship that gives no bonuses to any weapon except for my drones then I damn well expect my drones to do all the work, TYVM. And i agree. I was referring to anyone who wasn't even switching targets manually, and being semi-afk while running missions. It would also be something bot programs could exploit. "It's no use crying over spilt milk, because all the forces of the universe were bent on spilling it." ~William Maugham
Dal Thrax Sacred Templars Unclaimed. 2	Posted - 2012.12.05 03:00:00 - [103] - Quote Is the orbit distance on for the drone killing frigs to far to just smartbomb the things then drop drones?
Angeal MacNova 9th Fleet-Seraphins 42	Posted - 2012.12.05 03:07:00 - [104] - Quote Boats that make use of drones should be required to use them to round out their balance and put them on par with their non drone peers. If there was an issue with drone providing too much dps/ewar then nerf them. If the issue was people afk missioning in L4's then perhaps removing the auto aggro so that the pilot has to have a locked target and tell the drone to engage each one.
Clayten Bigsby Knights of Terror. 1	Posted - 2012.12.05 03:10:00 - [105] - Quote I want my drone sp refunded as well as any Gallente spaceship command skills. The new changes are a joke. I will be voting with my wallet if you don't make changes or refund my sp. Thanks
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1827	Posted - 2012.12.05 03:12:00 - [106] - Quote Clayten Bigsby wrote: I want my drone sp refunded as well as any Gallente spaceship command skills. The new changes are a joke. I will be voting with my wallet if you don't make changes or refund my sp. Thanks Let's talk a bit about your "stuffs". Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm
Clayten Bigsby Knights of Terror. 1	Posted - 2012.12.05 03:14:00 - [107] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: Clayten Bigsby wrote: I want my drone sp refunded as well as any Gallente spaceship command skills. The new changes are a joke. I will be voting with my wallet if you don't make changes or refund my sp. Thanks Let's talk a bit about your "stuffs". The one in my pants ? :P
datalost Rapture Industries 1	Posted - 2012.12.05 03:16:00 - [108] - Quote Angeal MacNova wrote: Boats that make use of drones should be required to use them to round out their balance and put them on par with their non drone peers. If there was an issue with drone providing too much dps/ewar then nerf them. If the issue was people afk missioning in L4's then perhaps removing the auto aggro so that the pilot has to have a locked target and tell the drone to engage each one. Drone boat DPS will now be much less than other non drone dependant ships. Drones were already slower than a pilot with even skills in another DPS type, for example like missles. Now they are even slower DPS with all the recalling and relaunching. The way this was implemented seems that CCP just wanted to hurt the AFK missioners, which is fine, but CCP apparently did not care who else got hurt. If this is not somehow addressed i will be taking all 5 accounts that me and my family have and cancelling. Unless we get the option to reassign our SP that we wasted time on.
Rengerel en Distel Amarr Science and Industry 565	Posted - 2012.12.05 03:23:00 - [109] - Quote Mara Rinn wrote: Have you tried fitting a TP or ECM to your drone boat? At least on the test server, neither a TD nor a TP was enough to draw aggro off drones. I didn't try every different form of ewar though. Remote repping seemed to be the only thing that had a good deal of success. Of course, that only really works when you're talking about sentry boats.
Tesal 54	Posted - 2012.12.05 03:33:00 - [110] - Quote I'm glad I don't run missions any more.
Phi Nupe Sunstar Business Ventures Inc. 0	Posted - 2012.12.05 03:41:00 - [111] - Quote Tesal wrote: I'm glad I don't run missions any more. Yeah, I stopped a bit back when I realized I could make more money doing other things AND have more fun.
starbelt stacy Project-Gonk 3	Posted - 2012.12.05 03:59:00 - [112] - Quote Bane Necran wrote: starbelt stacy wrote: maybe CCP should just be banning people like you instead of nerfing the rest of the mission running community who actually dont go afk during missions I didn't do it for very long. oh that makes it alright then ? ... Sack the dumb mofo who decided to nerf level 4's? .... again!!!
Thiassi Uth'Matar Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2012.12.05 04:04:00 - [113] - Quote If this leads to a boost to drones that will make them viable in PvP then I am all for it. In the meantime however it is gonna impact the income of a lot of missioners and drone producers.
baltec1 Bat Country 3033	Posted - 2012.12.05 04:04:00 - [114] - Quote Suddenly drone durability isnt such a usless skill to have!
Diabolyc Bunny Mafia 1	Posted - 2012.12.05 04:08:00 - [115] - Quote Long time ago was learning skills, no remaps, dedicated points in skills with only one (of 3) choice of decent attributes, lvl 3 implants for 60-70 mil and lvl1 up to lvl 5 misions... Now everyone who start eve want to jump on lvl 4 in 15 days. Cry more... P.S. Domy with t2 sentry still great dmg and no need to panic your drones will die in 10 sec, but you must explain to your gf/wife why no more sex during your time on eve.
Zan Shiro Alternative Enterprises 37	Posted - 2012.12.05 04:09:00 - [116] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Suddenly drone durability isnt such a usless skill to have! or remote reppers if that drone happy. And if anything like sleeper ai, as I understand it , that AI loves remote repping. Never been in a wh but from what I gather they are not scared at all to go after logi support of any kind with extreme prejudice. Remote rep on domi to see if that works could be worth a go, at least on sisi. hell even on the production server as I get the feeiling there are some peeps here who don't fit many guns and went full drones.
Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 384	Posted - 2012.12.05 04:14:00 - [117] - Quote Zan Shiro wrote: baltec1 wrote: Suddenly drone durability isnt such a usless skill to have! or remote reppers if that drone happy. And if anything like sleeper ai, as I understand it , that AI loves remote repping. Never been in a wh but from what I gather they are not scared at all to go after logi support of any kind with extreme prejudice. Remote rep on domi to see if that works could be worth a go, at least on sisi. From what i understand we didn't get to test the launch version of the changes, but testing prior versions of the AI failed to achieve the desired aggro switch with RR (Maybe not enough rep power?). Not sure if this is the case with the launch version though.
Van Kuzco Stryker Industries Ocularis Inferno 15	Posted - 2012.12.05 11:00:00 - [118] - Quote I think drone changes should stay but they should eliminate the lag on drone orders. It takes a few seconds for drones to actually be recalled after the order is given. I don't know why they haven't fixed that.
Qvar Dar'Zanar EVE University Ivy League 105	Posted - 2012.12.05 13:01:00 - [119] - Quote datalost wrote: If this is not somehow addressed i will be taking all 5 accounts that me and my family have and cancelling. Unless we get the option to reassign our SP that we wasted time on. All your "family" plays EVE, have PvE as a way of making money, and let you decide for them if they should cancel their accounts? I suspect you have a 1 member family.
Cozmik R5 Chez Stan 146	Posted - 2012.12.05 13:14:00 - [120] - Quote A lot of you have never been in W-space apparently. HTFU! Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try.

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