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Tech 1 logistics are the straw that broke the Tech Camel's back

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Elzon1 Shadow Boys Corp Legion of xXDEATHXx 99	Posted - 2012.12.07 06:06:00 - [1] - Quote I'll keep this post as simple as possible. Tech 1 logistic cruisers will be replacing Tech 2 logistics in nullsec wars. Why? Because they are cheaper! Prove it! Scimitar Cost: 134 million isk (unfit) Shield repair amount: 230.4 per second Cost of rep per second: 581,597 isk Scythe Cost: 25.5 million isk (fitted similar to this: Standard Scimitar fit with an added Capacitor Power Relay II and Medium Liquid Cooled Electronics I) Shield repair amount: 187.2 per second Cost of rep per second: 136,218 isk You can have 5 fully fitted Scythe's for the cost of 1 Scimitar! So, this means alliances and corporations can afford more logistic ships than they could before. Also, due to the lower skill requirements you have a greater availability of pilots. Now, how does this relate to Technetium? Easy, due to the new cheaper tech 1 logistic cruisers there is no need to purchase tech 2 logistics in large scale conflicts. Tech 2 logistics use Technetium in their construction. Where do the most ships typically die in the game during major wars? Nullsec of course! What is typically the most used tech 2 ship during wartime? Logistics! And now that the tech 1 logistic cruisers will be replacing the tech 2 logistics there will be a fairly significant drop in the demand of Technetium/Platinum Technite! As a result the price of Technetium/Platinum Technite will drop significantly! Alchemy has already caused a severe drop in the price of Platinum Technite (and therefore Technetium) due to it over supplying the market. Now we see the demand for Platinum Technite will drop significantly causing an even more severe drop in it's price. There may be the potential that the drop in demand for Platinum Technite will cause the price to drop even without alchemy! Ring mining hasn't arrived yet and now we see another nerf to Tech moons! The death of Technetium moons as a major passive income source may come sooner than expected!
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1851	Posted - 2012.12.07 06:10:00 - [2] - Quote Ok, let's roll ~ Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm
Alua Oresson Demon-War-Lords Fatal Ascension 165	Posted - 2012.12.07 06:12:00 - [3] - Quote What's the EHP and resists on those T1 Scythes again? I'm not saying that the T1 Logistics won't be used, they will, but for sov warfare fleets the T2 logistics cruisers will still be used predominantely, they are just that much better at surviving. http://pvpwannabe.blogspot.com/
Desya Dakken No Ducks Allowed 7	Posted - 2012.12.07 06:14:00 - [4] - Quote What you don't understand is, Tech is needed for nearly every single T2 item in the game, so people switching to T1 Logistics with T2 modules, still fuels the cartel.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1851	Posted - 2012.12.07 06:15:00 - [5] - Quote So, the Sycthe will end our 0.0 dreams? Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm
Elzon1 Shadow Boys Corp Legion of xXDEATHXx 99	Posted - 2012.12.07 06:21:00 - [6] - Quote Alua Oresson wrote: What's the EHP and resists on those T1 Scythes again? I'm not saying that the T1 Logistics won't be used, they will, but for sov warfare fleets the T2 logistics cruisers will still be used predominantely, they are just that much better at surviving. Tech 2 logistics can die just like Tech 1 logistic ships. However, you can afford 5 fully fitted tech 1 logistic cruisers for the price of one scimitar hull. If a subcap fleet needs logistics support (what fleet doesn't?) then they will be using tech 1 logistic cruisers in larger fleets. Tech 2 logistic ships will be more useful for small scale roams.
Marlona Sky D00M. Northern Coalition. 2210	Posted - 2012.12.07 06:24:00 - [7] - Quote T1 logis will do anything against the null circle jerk fest. Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner!
Elzon1 Shadow Boys Corp Legion of xXDEATHXx 99	Posted - 2012.12.07 06:28:00 - [8] - Quote Desya Dakken wrote: What you don't understand is, Tech is needed for nearly every single T2 item in the game, so people switching to T1 Logistics with T2 modules, still fuels the cartel. Oh I understand that perfectly. However, alchemy has already severely hindered the profitability of Tech moons. The change over to tech 1 logistic cruisers will further hinder tech moon profitability. Tech 2 logistics are one of the most heavily used tech 2 ships in the came if not the most. I'm not saying that Tech moon profitability will completely disappear, but it may be severely hindered to the point of no longer being as big a passive income source as it is now.
rodyas Tie Fighters Inc 893	Posted - 2012.12.07 06:31:00 - [9] - Quote They should have given tech moons sleeper AI. I'm not shitposting.
YoYo NickyYo Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 61	Posted - 2012.12.07 06:32:00 - [10] - Quote When did isk become such a serous consideration in null? "Working as intended"
Elzon1 Shadow Boys Corp Legion of xXDEATHXx 99	Posted - 2012.12.07 06:33:00 - [11] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: So, the Sycthe will end our 0.0 dreams? What the 0.0 dreams are I don't know, so I can't really speak to that. However, the profitability of Tech moons will once again be severely reduced. The price could fall to the production cost of alchemy or perhaps even further down to where even alchemy is no longer profitable. Alchemy has an effect on me personally, so this change over to tech 1 logistics could hinder my profits as well as those of nullsec residents.
Elzon1 Shadow Boys Corp Legion of xXDEATHXx 99	Posted - 2012.12.07 06:36:00 - [12] - Quote YoYo NickyYo wrote: When did isk become such a serous consideration in null? It always was and always will be. Nullsec is used to having passive income to fight their wars with. However, that will eventually come to an end and the change over to tech 1 logistics will make this time come sooner.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1851	Posted - 2012.12.07 06:37:00 - [13] - Quote Elzon1 wrote: Tech 2 logistics can die just like Tech 1 logistic ships. However, you can afford 5 fully fitted tech 1 logistic cruisers for the price of one scimitar hull. Oh ho, you reveal your hidden side as a ... blobber. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm
Altrue Exploration Frontier inc 70	Posted - 2012.12.07 06:37:00 - [14] - Quote Elzon1 wrote: Scimitar Cost: 134 million isk (unfit) Shield repair amount: 230.4 per second Cost of rep per second: 581,597 isk I'm affraid, you're wrong sir, the shield repair amount for an unfit Scimitar is zero. So technically the T1 variation is in your example better an infinite number of times more. Nerf T1 !!! :D Edit : More seriously, You can apply this kind of reasonning for every ship in the game. Let's calculate the isk / dps ratio for T1 and T2 ships... it's the same thing ! The point is that using T2 can increase your performances when you don't have an unlimited number of pilots. Your example seems to think that null sec fights are limited by money, but they are more limited by the number of players available. To increase the efficiency of those pilots, you need them to fly T2s. Also, your calculations are not considering the surviviability of the ship, as underligned before. Yes T1 is five times cheaper, but I bet that I will die even faster than that compared to a T2 :) *Yelling "Manticooore !" on teamspeak*
Elzon1 Shadow Boys Corp Legion of xXDEATHXx 99	Posted - 2012.12.07 06:38:00 - [15] - Quote Altrue wrote: Elzon1 wrote: Scimitar Cost: 134 million isk (unfit) Shield repair amount: 230.4 per second Cost of rep per second: 581,597 isk I'm affraid, you're wrong sir, the shield repair amount for an unfit Scimitar is zero. Indeed, I shall correct that
Alua Oresson Demon-War-Lords Fatal Ascension 165	Posted - 2012.12.07 06:41:00 - [16] - Quote Elzon1 wrote: Alua Oresson wrote: What's the EHP and resists on those T1 Scythes again? I'm not saying that the T1 Logistics won't be used, they will, but for sov warfare fleets the T2 logistics cruisers will still be used predominantely, they are just that much better at surviving. Tech 2 logistics can die just like Tech 1 logistic ships. However, you can afford 5 fully fitted tech 1 logistic cruisers for the price of one scimitar hull. If a subcap fleet needs logistics support (what fleet doesn't?) then they will be using tech 1 logistic cruisers in larger fleets. Tech 2 logistic ships will be more useful for small scale roams. You avoided the question, which means that you know the answer. If the logistics don't last long enough for reps to hit, then they aren't useful. http://pvpwannabe.blogspot.com/
Bobo Cindekela Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 36	Posted - 2012.12.07 06:41:00 - [17] - Quote the big lie at its finest keep up the good work , seems legit tech is in dire need of buffing after the recent changes to the game, the sky really is falling. You are about to engage in an arguement with a forum alt,-á this is your final warning.
Elzon1 Shadow Boys Corp Legion of xXDEATHXx 99	Posted - 2012.12.07 06:44:00 - [18] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: Elzon1 wrote: Tech 2 logistics can die just like Tech 1 logistic ships. However, you can afford 5 fully fitted tech 1 logistic cruisers for the price of one scimitar hull. Oh ho, you reveal your hidden side as a ... blobber. It's a very effective tactic as you already know very well. We won't see more tactical fleets until there are more remote A.O.E modules are added to the game.
Elzon1 Shadow Boys Corp Legion of xXDEATHXx 99	Posted - 2012.12.07 06:51:00 - [19] - Quote Bobo Cindekela wrote: the big lie at its finest keep up the good work , seems legit tech is in dire need of buffing after the recent changes to the game, the sky really is falling. No need for a buff seeing as tech moons were never intended to the major passive income source they currently are. Once ring mining comes about the profitability of all moons will be significantly reduced. If EVE is to grow it's going to need a greater supply of Technetium and other moon minerals than is currently available. More systems could be added, but that wouldn't increase the density of pilots per system. There are already empty systems all over the place.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 10597	Posted - 2012.12.07 06:53:00 - [20] - Quote No they won't. Why? Because they're not nearly as good at the job. Less repping power + lower survivability (= even less repping power over time) = loss. They might make a difference among the mission crowd, where ship loss is a silly rare occurrence anyway, but for fleet work, they are only training wheels on the way to T2. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1852	Posted - 2012.12.07 06:58:00 - [21] - Quote Elzon1 wrote: Alavaria Fera wrote: Elzon1 wrote: Tech 2 logistics can die just like Tech 1 logistic ships. However, you can afford 5 fully fitted tech 1 logistic cruisers for the price of one scimitar hull. Oh ho, you reveal your hidden side as a ... blobber. It's a very effective tactic as you already know very well. We won't see more tactical fleets until there are more remote A.O.E modules are added to the game. I could make a joke about remote AoE doomsdays, but ... Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm
Nylith Empyreal Crowbar Industries. Rebel Alliance of New Eden 178	Posted - 2012.12.07 07:00:00 - [22] - Quote Wtb missile aoe back. "Oh, you can't help that," said the troll: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" -ásaid the forumwarrior. "You must be," said the troll, "or you wouldn't have come here."
Elzon1 Shadow Boys Corp Legion of xXDEATHXx 99	Posted - 2012.12.07 07:04:00 - [23] - Quote Alua Oresson wrote: Elzon1 wrote: Alua Oresson wrote: What's the EHP and resists on those T1 Scythes again? I'm not saying that the T1 Logistics won't be used, they will, but for sov warfare fleets the T2 logistics cruisers will still be used predominantely, they are just that much better at surviving. Tech 2 logistics can die just like Tech 1 logistic ships. However, you can afford 5 fully fitted tech 1 logistic cruisers for the price of one scimitar hull. If a subcap fleet needs logistics support (what fleet doesn't?) then they will be using tech 1 logistic cruisers in larger fleets. Tech 2 logistic ships will be more useful for small scale roams. You avoided the question, which means that you know the answer. If the logistics don't last long enough for reps to hit, then they aren't useful. They are slightly easier to hit (higher sig radius). A little easier to jam (lower sensor strength). And they have lower effective hp overall. However, this is all overshadowed by the fact that the tech 1 version is 5 times cheaper than the tech 2 version. Reps will hit and they will be useful.
Elzon1 Shadow Boys Corp Legion of xXDEATHXx 99	Posted - 2012.12.07 07:08:00 - [24] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: Elzon1 wrote: Alavaria Fera wrote: Elzon1 wrote: Tech 2 logistics can die just like Tech 1 logistic ships. However, you can afford 5 fully fitted tech 1 logistic cruisers for the price of one scimitar hull. Oh ho, you reveal your hidden side as a ... blobber. It's a very effective tactic as you already know very well. We won't see more tactical fleets until there are more remote A.O.E modules are added to the game. I could make a joke about remote AoE doomsdays, but ... Yeah, I know... titans destroying entire fleets in seconds However, I'm referencing things like the Remote ECM Burst I and bombs. So, I was talking more about effect based A.O.E then I was damage.
baltec1 Bat Country 3097	Posted - 2012.12.07 07:16:00 - [25] - Quote Only difference the t1 logi will make is that newer players can provide reps sooner. T2 will still be used just as much as last week.
Zack Korth The Deneveh Collective High Rollers 27	Posted - 2012.12.07 07:16:00 - [26] - Quote Elzon1 wrote: I'll keep this post as simple as possible. Tech 1 logistic cruisers will be replacing Tech 2 logistics in nullsec wars. Why? Because they are cheaper! Prove it! Scimitar Cost: 134 million isk (Standard Scimitar fit) Shield repair amount: 230.4 per second Cost of rep per second: 581,597 isk Scythe Cost: 25.5 million isk (fitted similar to the previous fit with an added Capacitor Power Relay II and Medium Liquid Cooled Electronics I) Shield repair amount: 187.2 per second Cost of rep per second: 136,218 isk You can have 5 fully fitted Scythe's for the cost of 1 Scimitar! And now that the tech 1 logistic cruisers will be replacing the tech 2 logistics there will be a fairly significant drop in the demand of Technetium/Platinum Technite! As a result the price of Technetium/Platinum Technite will drop significantly! The death of Technetium moons as a major passive income source may come sooner than expected! First off, good. anything that helps kill technetium prices is a good thing. Second, take 5 tech 2 Logis and 5 tech 1 Logis, the difference would be about 250 HP a second right? What war capable null sec alliance can't handle the price difference of the extra 250 HP a sec? none of them, they can all afford to use tech 2, they can all afford to try to swing the odds in their favor, and people hell bent on winning usually do.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1852	Posted - 2012.12.07 07:23:00 - [27] - Quote Elzon1 wrote: Yeah, I know... titans destroying entire fleets in seconds However, I'm referencing things like the Remote ECM Burst I and bombs. So, I was talking more about effect based A.O.E then I was damage. I actually love bombs. Either that or I love sitting cloaked in space - hard to tell, sometimes. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1852	Posted - 2012.12.07 07:25:00 - [28] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Only difference the t1 logi will make is that newer players can provide reps sooner. T2 will still be used just as much as last week. It could be a pretty nice advantage. It's odd when people always talk about alpha, but getting more pilots into logistics is a great thing, and T1 cruisers are much easier to get into less painful (to pilot, or the alliance is reimbursing) to use. Plus, sorta-new-newbies in Scythes as the image of logistics in a blob, I like it. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm
pussnheels The Fiction Factory 765	Posted - 2012.12.07 07:27:00 - [29] - Quote Elzon1 wrote: ] what you are mentioning are just statistics , they just numbers people play with , they do not however show you the whole picture and yes you are right , people will be using t1 logis more often now , that was the whole purpose of the buff but you only took one example the scythe and scimitar , there are 3 others and while i was sceptic at first aswell, the gap in performance between them is still big enough to make it more than worthwhile training the t2 ones , besides the T1 have a rather paper tank somethig you can not deny I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
dexington Push button receive bacon 241	Posted - 2012.12.07 07:29:00 - [30] - Quote Tippia wrote: They might make a difference among the mission crowd... I don't think people will use them for incursions, and with the new AI i don't think it's safe ti be sitting in a frigate running remote rep in a level 4 mission. I believed they was added to the game to support small pvp gangs that need a logistic option which was easy affordable and did not require a lot of skill points. GÇ£The best way to keep something bad from happening is to see it ahead of time, and you can't see it if you refuse to face the possibility.GÇ¥

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